Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks about the NFC North's draft approach

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Courtney Cronin discuss whether the Bears and Vikings have gone different directions with their rebuilds and wonders if Ryan Poles chose Chicago over Minnesota because he was allowed to rebuild. And, can we muster up some draft takes with no accountability? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collard here, along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin, a.k.a. Peak Courtney, our Draft Scout at this time. But I want to start a little bit of a new bit, Courtney, which is what's up with the Bears? Maybe we need like a metal intro. What's up with the Bears? What's going on with the Bears? So you're basically ripping off what does this stat mean and applying it to a new bit.

That's fine. I can make it more of like a jazz swing. Metal intros. You're just really good at creating that fake guitar sound. Oh, it's a guitar, right? Yeah. That's the guitar, right? I was pretty good at that.

I could do my own bit. I could do a jazz. Yeah, give me a jazz one. What's's that sound like what's up with the bears what are they doing with the draft oh nothing they got no picks and they got no linemen so they're gonna stink pretty bad the bears what's going on with the bears not much right now i mean the fact that it's the first week of april they have 57 players currently on their roster and they started voluntary you know off-season work which is basically just like that strength and conditioning phase when everybody got to the building on april 4th and we still don't know like who showed up who didn't because it's all voluntary, right?

But you'd like to think that most of the team would be there because there's a new coach, there's a new staff, there's a new scheme, both on the defensive side of the ball and the offensive side of the ball. And, you know, for the personnel staff and the coaching staff, they need to figure out, okay, we need to get to 90 by training camp. We have a lot of spots to fill. So they've got to figure out which spots they're extra lean at and where they need to add come the draft. And I don't know, I really thought they were going to

sign a couple more players before they got to April 4th, but we haven't seen it happen yet. Maybe it'll happen the next couple of days. But then again, at this time of year, unless there's somebody like a Jadavian Clowney, for example, that's just like sitting out there waiting, like ready to like go somewhere or, you know, you know, Bobby Wagner, like last week, right. When he ended up like going, um, you know, and signing with the Rams, like there aren't that many other players out there that are going to be like these immediate impact guys for the Chicago bears. Like you mentioned the offensive line and your, and your jazz interlude and that they don't have anybody.

And it's a story I'm writing right now, because when Justin Fields in his year two progression is such a big focal point for this team, like, what are they doing to support that and i know that they can't confidently say that they've done enough at this point to feel like okay yeah we're building a foundation we've got some good foundational pieces like they think they've and they've said like they're trending in that direction but they're nowhere close to where they need to be so they've got six picks I would imagine that they're going to be pretty aggressive during the draft and trying to trade back to garner more, but you know,

it's been pretty quiet for the most part with this team. And I know that, you know, in dealing with the Vikings fan base for five years and seeing kind of like how different in a way this bears fan bases, because they've, they have not had like much success at all. I mean, yeah. Two trips to the post season, you know, both first round exits in the wild card round, like they are aggressive and they can be mean.

And there's basically like fire Ryan poles, like they're already like got the pitchforks out because they're not happy that nothing happened during free agency. So, you know, I guess almost they kind of like up the ante on Vikings fans, at least just from what I've seen in my mentions of the ire that they are OK expressing. You and I both in moving to Minnesota from places that are far more aggressive, it was an adjustment. And still, I'm not sure i entirely get the passive aggressive thing i will have to ask other people if minnesotans are being passive aggressive toward

me at times so we've both dealt with this like it's different culturally the east coast is very different culturally and i remember when i first got on the radio uh in minnesota i was like they did something. Who knows what it was? And I just like went nuts, just totally went crazy. And my boss- It wasn't code words, was it? Oh, no, no, no.

That was- It was a typical that day. Yeah, did lose it that day. It wasn't the code word. It was something that wasn't even that big of a deal. But when I was doing radio in Buffalo, everything was like this, just, you know, maybe, you know, better from like New York sports or Philadelphia and how they're overreactive to everything. But that's kind of the same as Buffalo coming from

the East. And my boss at the time, Brad Lane, who I still work with now from time to time at WCCO, he was like, you're in the Midwest. You got to explain it a little calmer, a little different. You got to sugarcoat it, in other words. Maybe not even just that, but just in a less like going absolutely over the top fashion, which is why I really I save the rants. I do. I will see everyone's a while in the comments from the iTunes and it'll be like, you rant too much.

I'm like, oh, oh buddy i'm being reasonable i mean you could be a whole lot worse um the one thing i was thinking of is like you know delivering it with you know smoother tone it's like going from the metal what are the bears doing intro to your jazz interlude which was a lot smoother a lot calmer like it you know flowed real nice like look at me dancing no one can see me dancing but um that's how it felt that's how the delivery needs to be and i mean this is a minnesota podcast so i think that our listeners are probably like maybe a little taken aback at first when they heard the you know the metal intro and they're like this is more my speed the real real smooth delivery um that metal voice you just did was terrific i mean i just remember when

like you when you introduced what does this stat mean and i heard it for the first time and i like fell out of my chair laughing because i'm like this is incredible like i just started doing it on my own so i you know taught myself i'm a rep learner as we as we know on the show i taught myself how to do it so right you're not a mental reps person you just you have to actually practice right yeah like if i'm not doing this whole like you know fake boots and everything else like focus or whatever the guy was i'm not doing that oh oh it was uh danny etling wasn't it that's right four string qb of the future yes danny etling would stand behind everybody and with each practice rep he would run

the rep on air himself behind handoffs were incredible you gotta respect it though like i wanted to write a story about it and but he got cut he was a real person yeah he was a real person he was not a real person no there's no chance case cookas was a real quarterback not a chance uh so i wanted to ask you a question about ryan poles since they want to fire him already and they do need some offensive alignment. That is funny. But so there's been a question that keeps coming up that people have asked me and I don't know what to say to this.

I don't have an answer is whether Ryan Poles decided to go with the Chicago bears because he was going to be able to do things his way versus the Wilfs wanting the competitive rebuild. And now that we've sort of got more information or puzzle pieces to put together on the Wilfs directive to Kweisi Adafo-Mentz of where they want to be, was that an issue? And I just thought, I don't know if you have a thought on that, like, cause I don't have any constructive reporting.

What I heard on Ryan Poles was it was about cash. But I don't know that that other part wasn't a part of it because Kweisi Adafomensa did not have options. It was, do you want to be the Minnesota Vikings GM or do you want to be nobody's GM? And that's not to insult him. It's just that Ryan Poles had two teams. Right.

So you could pick. He wasn't very, very squarely in the mix in New York. Right. So what happened, what you're referring to is a conversation that we had with George McCaskey, the chairman last Tuesday at owners meetings. And he was talking about Ryan Poles. Like, so Bill Polian, it was like part of this committee to find Ryan Poles. Because you'll remember at the season-ending press conference in Chicago,

it was a train wreck because you've got George McCaskey up there saying, I'm just a fan. I'm not a football evaluator. And the whole Olin Kruitz thing and effectively calling him a liar. Like BZ said, the team paid him like $15 like 15 an hour whatever so it was a train wreck and at that point you you know that this person is he's the chairman of the team a role that he's been in since 2011 but the football side of like let me get this hire right they have to go outside of their of their group and that's very different from what minnesota

did in in the hiring process of finding quacey and then finding kevin o'connell that was led by andrew miller he did a really really good job structuring this committee and then a subcommittee of you know different leaders in the building but having the football acumen there so that's why the bears had to go get bill polian who you know he does this now he's not a gm he's not doing a whole ton in the media sense either but he's on the you know on this committee that found ryan poles and so um like they asked poles in this process uh like for the interview assess the roster and poles's assessment assessment, according to George McCaskey was quote unquote blunt and his plan quote to fix it made sense to us. So that's what he sold the McCaskey family on in getting to, you know, the, getting the job in Chicago. And, you know, I thought that that was

kind of an interesting thing as it pertains to Minnesota, because McCaskey said, like, Poles' assessment, by his reckoning, was accurate. So what does that mean? Well, it means what we've seen already throughout free agency, that they needed to tear this thing down in a lot of different areas, trade your best pass rusher away, because this team is not a, you know, retooling away or just plug a couple of different pieces in here and there away from being competitive. And I wonder, you know, polls has now got this at least. So we think right now because people's patience changes as you know, as, as we know in Minnesota, you know, based on kind of like the temperature around this fan base that sometimes affects,

you know, public opinion and maybe the opinion of what this team wants to wants to do with its moves and what ownership is willing to do. The court of public opinion, as I've learned in Chicago and granted, I grew up here. So like I knew about how intense this market was, but the court of public opinion here carries a lot of weight with this ownership group and willing to kind of almost I hate using the term like bend to the mob. But like they listen, they listen. And then when people are upset that this team isn't winning, sometimes they make knee jerk reactions, at least they have in the past. Right now, they're preaching patience. They're the long-term gain over like a short term being tempted to do some win now type moves and i feel like ryan poles took the job in chicago because he knew in minnesota he wasn't going to be able to do like it gives you job security first

off he got a five-year deal versus a four-year deal which is what quesia dofo mensa got in minnesota so that extra year is everything and being able to see your plan through instead of having to like cut corners and rush things like you got to be willing to go to a place where they will kind of give you the vote of confidence that you can do that and i just feel like in minnesota he would have been in a spot where you know the kirk cousins decision to keep him and extend him i'm not saying ryan poles wants that one way or the other but like i don't know if he would have had as much of a choice or a voice in that like you know it feels like he probably would have had that decision made for him before he got here so um yeah well and the fact that the quarterback situation was solved in chicago

and it's not his guy which means that if it goes sideways, he could point the finger at somebody else and be like, guys, you got to let me draft one. I didn't draft this guy. I mean, that happened in Washington with Dwayne Haskins a year ago. Right. Right. And that's favorable. And it was more clear. This is what's weird about chicago versus minnesota is chicago had seven wins last year for six six and the vikings had eight yeah if if one game goes different that means nothing they both have seven wins yeah and yet we look at chicago is very much a rebuilding type of team that's having to tear it all down and bring it back up. And yet the Vikings owners look at this situation and say, no, no, we've got lots of talent.

We were pretty close last year and we need to sign all the same people and go forward that way. It's two very different approaches, which we get to track because Ryan Poles was the guy that the Vikings initially wanted to hire. And then he ends up choosing Chicago over them. So we're watching these things. But when polls initially chose Chicago, the way that I sort of presented it in a column was, Hey, battle of the rebuilds, like Kwesi versus, you know, Ryan here. And it's

not that because that's not what the Vikings are doing. And so all of a sudden, so now it's really the Vikings and the Packers are in one part of the NFC North and the Lions and the Bears are in another part of the NFC North. And they're not really connected to each other outside of the two games they're going to play. And we get to see which one of these approaches turns out better. Of course, there's a million factors that goes into it. But, I mean, Chicago's probably not going to be as good as the Vikings this year. I think it's unlikely. It's very safe to say that they're – I know the over-unders, the win totals were set last week, and they put Chicago at 6.5.

I'm kind of finding it hard to find six wins on this team right now, and it's not like – I think I'm not overselling that point. This could be a four-win team, but I think that they're not necessarily okay with that. Like no one, that's going to be really, it's going to be a long season for everyone for the front office, for the coaching staff, for Justin Fields. Look at the offensive line right now. Look at who he's throwing the ball to. That's going to be a long year for him when this is supposed to be the big

jump year. And, but I just, I think that you have to look at this team and realize, okay, they're probably fourth in the Detroit's probably going to be a better football team than they are. They at least have like a plan. They've got some higher, they've got two first round picks. Chicago is zero. Like I think that that's completely reasonable to think that they will, first off obvious that they're in different spots than, you know,

the Vikings and the Packers, but they're probably like the lowest tiered team right now in the NFC North. But I think they expect that. Yeah. I couldn't see based on the end of last season, I could see Detroit being like a seven or eight win team with stacking talent.

Although I want your opinion on this is we're just sort of kicking around the NFC North. You think Malik will, this is going to go to Detroit at the number two pick that would be wild that idea I absolutely love that idea it's one of my favorite things to toss around during like draft time and and like just the thought of them shaking up the draft order because like I know Mel Kuyper just put or Todd McShay put out his mock draft three point oh excuse me mel had his 3.0 like two or three weeks ago so that's old news at 6.9 i think it was actually exactly um they shouldn't

they should all be that in my opinion but mel had his out and it's old news now because pro day season has come and gone i mean the last you, last of the pro days are happening right now. And so much Intel changes from who shows up at what, and we know the order, like the order is very clearly Malik Willis, Kenny Pickett, which one goes first. And then you have about, there's five quarterbacks that are going to be taken in the first two rounds. And, you know, beyond that, it's probably Matt Corral, then Desmond Ritter. and then is it sam howell or is do you have somebody else there is your fifth quarterback now in the mock draft that todd mcshay put out earlier this week on espn.com he still has the lions at two going defense and that certainly makes sense because that's what we thought that it's what we've thought for a long time that they're going to do and he has them taking Desmond Ritter at 32 overall I think that if you're Detroit and

you know that Jared Goff is not your guy long term you don't leave this thing to chance because every I mean granted you're not in a situation that's bad because you have the second overall pick and it's not like oh like there's only one other team that could call your bluff if they knew that you were going to get somebody. And it's not like Jacksonville is going to be taking a quarterback. So I think that if they throw off the draft order and take Malik Willis, number two overall, it's the right move. Because at 32, you can still get a very talented edge rusher at that spot.

And it's not. And even if you wanted somebody on the offensive line you can do that because that's where that's the sweet spot but I've theorized about this for about two weeks now and that would be my all-time favorite move because we're not expecting a quarterback to go at the earliest and a lot of people disagree on this at six to Carolina because we know that you know the Panthers are hosting the top three guys on on private visits up until the draft process and they're very clearly trying to save or Matt Rule is trying to save his job which drafting a

quarterback might not even do that because it's probably gonna take 10 wins to save his job but then again why wait right like so if you're if you're detroit what what are the chances are like that the three guys and desmond ritter's not in that group so maybe maybe they would will get him at 32 but i like i like the thought of them throwing a wrench into everyone's plans and taking malik willis second overall i will also snark forever about weak draft class if somebody goes number two overall uh but i think quarterbacks there's no there's no real way to like do this right where we expect that like there's not one going to be taken in the top 10 come on like when does that happen like i know that we think that everybody sucks in this draft class

at the quarterback position but come on, they're NFL quarterbacks. Like, you know, at some point they are going to be playing college quarterbacks playing in the NFL. Like they're going to be drafted. They are going to play. Even if it's not last year's class, does it mean that these people are, these prospects are not going to be valued as top 10, top 15 picks? It's just like, it doesn't make any sense. Like to think that all of a sudden one year is going to change the thought process there. Folks, I've been working on a new studio space to shoot some videos and what better to have

in the background than some awesome prints from our friends at Soda Stick. They have all the designs that they put on clothes, but you can also have them hanging on your walls too, which I will very soon. Everything from the homage to the Metrodome, to the Foligno fan club, to the hooked on a feeling design, to the straight cash homie, they have it all. Perfect for your football cave or your living room right over the TV. However you want to do it, go to SodaStick.com. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Use the promo code PurpleInsider for 15% off hats, hoodies, shirts, and of course, your prints. And just in general, like the idea of taking a quarterback, even if he's good and has some positives and negatives to his game, but in a position where Detroit can add so much talent eventually through

free agency, when they're ready to strike, it just makes a lot of sense. And with Willis, there's some major negatives to his game. I saw the other day, a hilarious stat about how on pure passing downs, like third down and six,

stuff like that, that he would get sacked like 30 of the time which is absolutely bananas like how do you get sacked that much uh but when you play at liberty there's no way to say what you'll be in the nfl when you played at liberty it's to me there's just impossible you can look at all the stats that you like but there's just no way because the players aren't even in the stratosphere of NFL receivers or NFL offensive linemen, but also not NFL competition. So how am I supposed to factor this? It's almost like watching a dude in the outfield throwing warmup tosses and then being like starting pitcher might be. I don't know. Could be.

I want to play you something real quick because i figured out how to do this on our little system and then uh then i want to ask you about hot quarterback takes and what we love about draft season okay so you're gonna love this and i figured out how to actually do this on our system have you been grinding the tape lately well now you don't have to because courtney our draft scout is here to grind it for you all't have to because Courtney, our draft scout, is here to grind it for you. All signs point to the draft if they want to address it there.

How good is that speed rusher? You're probably taking a defensive end at 14. Should the Vikings target that road grader? He is that prototype Phil that should fit in your zone scheme. Big, athletic. Does that long snapper have quick twitch? Probably long snappers, to be quite honest. Grinding long snapper have quick twitch probably long snappers to be quite

honest yeah grinding long snapper tape is definitely the right answer for you here's courtney r draft scout to break it down boom this is it let's go right this is elite production i mean my, like well done, Manny. It's every time, but now I don't have to edit it into the show. Now I figured out how I can just play it. So that's awesome. And we'll continue to do that. Give me,

I just want you to give me, take all the quarterbacks and just give me a hot take. Like you are not responsible for this take. We won't clip it. And if Jonathan is listening, who does our social media, Jonathan, don't clip this and

pull this and say, this is what Courtney actually thinks. But like, if I will give you one that I actually think that, but if you're forced though, you don't know, I don't mean lie with your take. I just mean like, give your, give your hot take on how these quarterbacks turn out. If Malik Willis would have run a 40 yardyard dash, just one, just run one of them. If he would have done that at his pro day or did it at the combine, top 10 pick, without question, no argument whatsoever. He may already be a top 10 pick, like we laid out the scenario potentially with the Detroit Lions at two or the Carolina Panthers at six. But he does that. He has nothing to lose because worst case scenario,

he runs a bad 40 and he still drafted in the top 20. Best case scenario, top 10 pick. You know who could have learned from this and done the same thing? Lamar Jackson. Very similar type player coming out of college, very athletic, different than anybody else in their quarterback class of quarter quarterbacks who went in the first round. If he does that easily a top 10 pick, but since he hasn't, I mean, I think that that's where the question mark lies here and why there still is so much uncertainty and why this class is so convoluted.

Is it Kenny Pickett? Is it Malik Willis? You know, what do you have there in the top two that we project to go? So that's probably my hottest take that I can give you. Other than I feel like Matt Corral is the biggest unknown of the known quarterbacks. I actually think Desmond Ritter because my radar, this could blow up radar has gone off recently with the Desmond Ritter stuff. Here's why. Because all of the I know quarterback technique people love Desmond Ritter. And so Dan Orlovsky loves him, Seth Galina from PFF, Nate Tice from the athletic now these guys know quarterback play really well Seth coached them Orlovsky played Nate Tice played for Wisconsin also and so I believe them that they know quarterback play but I think that the things that they're looking for don't necessarily correlate to NFL success so Seth Galina was doing a thing who's been on the show and we love Seth.

He's amazing, but he's doing a thing on video about how like Ritter's footwork in his pocket and everything else. And look what he does here. And he moves this foot first and everything. And I believe all that. I believe he's telling the truth. Ritter doesn't throw the ball very hard. Yeah. I did see that at the senior bowl. Like, let's not look for us through the trees here. Is it like Jake Fromm? Remember Jake Fromm, how people were like, man, technically speaking, and it's got a little Josh Rosen to it of look at his footwork, did the pocket and all that sort of stuff. Like, well, and Rosen had a much better arm than Desmond Ritter.

It was kind of his brain that was all squirreled up. But like when Ritter throws the ball it really floats I mean with Mac Jones they said he didn't have the strongest arm but I didn't see it like that I didn't see it just sort of like fluttering out there to wide receivers and this is again this is hot take no responsibility that I'm taking for this because I would still if the Vikings picked Ritter say good pick but that's the one thing with him and with Kenny Pickett that I wonder about is let's not look for us through the trees here. Usually it's the guys who are throwing the ball really hard that are having a lot of

success these days. Yeah. And I can understand, I mean, some of the criticisms with, with Desmond Ritter have been, you know, I mean, maybe it's not a criticism, but like, are you a product of your receivers and having really good talent around you and being on a really good team? I sometimes think he gets that label, right? Like that's only fair. They were a team that was in the CFP this year. And I just, I mean, I remember from senior bowl watching the practices and you know, that, that was the time when hand size became the big buzz phrase around Kenny Pickett and it stuck with him ever since.

But Desmond Ritter and the way he threw the ball, it was left a lot to be desired or a little to be desired. Whatever the bad one is, that was it. It was it was kind of unfortunate to see, actually, because not saying he was like air mailing routes on air but like it just wasn't great i i gave that not it's like that's kind of like my tertiary hot take because the first one was about malik willis second one i think did i say something about kenny pickett i said something and then this one's like oh he might be the best he had tiny little pathetic man hands and no i didn't play golf instead of football i think um i just think that i mean like we know so little but we also know enough about the top three like i said matt

corral is probably the biggest unknown still which is not a hot take it still is but i think i'm basing my desmond ritter take on the fact that the other three it's like they are what they are and we're keep trying to poke holes in these things because we expect them to – I don't know. We just expect that there are going to be multiple quarterbacks taken in the top 10 every single year. And since we can't justify that argument with this group, it leads me to believe, okay, well, maybe the fourth quarterback taken off the board isn't that dissimilar than the second quarterback. And maybe he's going to be the most successful of the group. Who knows?

So another thing about Matt Corral is he is actually like pretty small um at the combine he went six one and five eights and two twelve which is in the 21st percentile in the 18th percentile with a wingspan of 74 which is in the 24th and then hand size which is just barely above average for him. He is like a pretty, he's not being talked about this way. He's a pretty small quarterback. Um, and I wonder about that. If I don't know if it makes a huge difference because people will say, well, Russell Wilson, but Russell Wilson is a house. Like Russell Wilson is like really things. If you've ever looked at Russell, I'll bring up his numbers. They're hilarious. Like his dimensions, they make no sense. He was like built in a, in a lab that made a mistake on height, but his hand size 91st percentile for Russell Wilson, even though he was only five foot 11. I mean, it's just like, he had some really weird, like long arms and his arm length

was pretty, you know, just things like that. So anyway, the whole point just being that if we're like hot taking Matt Corral actually being kind of small and having an offense that's built to help bad quarterbacks, you really wonder why that was. Like, I remember people were high on Chad Kelly for a while and it was that same sort of spread it out, RPO, like that kind of stuff. I wonder about that. The spread offense in the sec, it's predicated on speed on the outside and guys not knowing the route tree.

Like it's basically just like run this route and the quarterbacks basic put in the best position possible to succeed. So you have to sift through a lot of that. It's kind of like what you brought up about how good is Malik Willis because Liberty Malik Willis is going to look a lot different than NFL Malik Willis and how do you judge something a quarterback off what he's of what his potential is going to be off something that doesn't exist at the NFL level like college offenses are not I'm not using the right phrase here but they're dumbed down for a reason because you just you don't have these same sort of athletes like you know the

speed and you know your offensive linemen are smaller your defensive linemen play differently than then the ones who actually make it to the NFL you don't have like a team of NFL players out there playing college football unless you're you know Ohio State Alabama Clemson like any of those teams but even then you can poke holes in what they're doing and you know with Matt Corral and I think that the interesting part and I like this part of draft season because there is a little bit of a shake-up like I know that Kuyper and McShay did their quarterback rankings the other day and it's like one two three are pretty much the same and Matt Corral was the third but like it's interesting because in McShay's latest mock he has Ritter going 32nd to Detroit but uh Matt Corral not going for till 40th I believe till to the Seattle Seahawks because

they have that pick from Denver so it doesn't technically line up with his rankings but it's interesting because because of like how the the order order's, you know, shaking out, like we'll see five taken. I don't have a doubt about that in the first two rounds, but where the order gets, like, I just feel like there's no consensus yet on who that top guy is the way that it's been in other years, because you, again, there's so like how their games translate from because of where they're coming from. It's not like you have like, you know, quarterbacks from places that are, you know, household names, you know, Ohio state, Alabama. And granted we always have questions about those guys because they're

surrounded with perfection in college. And it's like, okay, how are you actually going to pan out at the NFL level? But like in previous years, you know, I know people are going to like yell at me. It's like, Oh, BYU and, and you know, North Dakota state last like yell at me it's like oh byu and nor in you know north dakota state last year like those aren't household names but it's just it was a different class and talent group was different so there's one reason to be skeptical about it i i'll try for a hot take here we'll take a swing and then if this one ends up turning out to be right then we will clip it

and play it forever as as you do if you analyze the right absolutely right you delete all the old tweets that were wrong and you save all the ones right into uh next year um so uh sam howell is the one that i just don't quite understand why he's dropping now he also is small Sam Howell I think he's only about six foot tall and so like that's a criticism but he has a cannon he threw the hardest ball at the combine and his downfield ability is as good as anybody I don't really believe in the mobility as an NFL player but it's almost odd to me that a guy with a monster arm like Sam Howell, whose play fell off a little bit, but is, but showed a ceiling when he had some good players around him at North Carolina to once be considered maybe the number one quarterback off the board.

And now I was looking at the consensus rankings and where guys are being mocked. And Sam Howell is like at the bottom now of these guys, aside from Carson strong, who to me, I don't know, like, is he in this conversation, but that that's the one where I wonder if there's a Derek Carr or a Jimmy Garoppolo to be had in the second round.

Maybe it's the guy like Sam Howell who kind of weirdly dropped or, or even like a Teddy Bridgewater who was considered very high and then dropped, but there wasn't really that specific of a reason outside of Teddy not wearing gloves and somebody, if it is pro day, and somebody just gets a steal because of it or someone finds a halfway decent quarterback because of it. That's, again, sort of in the hot take category. I don't know which one of these guys will work out, but Howell dropping.

He's 6'1". I mean, you make a good point there. He is small. Yeah, he is small, but it's, it's weird. Like he was considered to be one of the higher rated prospects. And then just during this draft season, it's not like he did anything wrong.

It's not like he tried to sing jazz swing to start a podcast like that would drop. And I don't think you think you were actually, your grade will go up, but like, are they looking at it? Yes, he's accurate on the deep ball. He's got, you know, a decently quick release on shorter to intermediate throws.

And, you know, he's got mobility, like not a lot, but he's got some. So is it enough to like, can you poke holes in that though and say, okay, well that's the reason he's going to be like a mid second round pick over where, you know, early, if you would go back to like last year,

I mean like last September when college football season had just started and where he was in the conversation, like, is that enough to make him drop? I mean, there's a lot of things I think that make guys drop, especially quarterbacks because, you know, the size factor. And if it's, I don't know, like what they expect here.

Like if you're not have, do we expect every quarterback to like be taking full field reads when they're NFL quarterbacks who can't do it? Just saying. Right. No, that's right. Processing thing is very difficult, but I don't know if that's like, I don't think that that's something that we can like completely judge this guy on right now because you're probably looking

at the same thing with every other quarterback because we talk about the mental the mental part of the draft process and and the aptitude and intelligent players and you know i don't i don't know though i don't feel like we know enough to be able to just be like, okay, this is why he's dropping right now and why he's a second-round pick. Size and measurables are the first thing that you go off of when you're looking at the quarterback, even though he can throw a deep ball. I just feel like, okay, you're looking at a 6'1 quarterback. And I know NFLDraft.com, like they always do, the NFL draft, NFL.com, Lance Zerline's draft profiles

had him compared to Chase Daniel. What kind of career did Chase, are we looking at somebody who's going to be a career backup who might be a stakeholder for a team like Atlanta that doesn't really know what they're doing? Or maybe even, you know, one of the other teams that is still like, it's not going to happen, but like a team like a Pittsburgh that doesn't have, and I'm not saying Pittsburgh's probably going to get Malik Willis if they don't get Kenny Pickett. It's one of the two. And they're not staying at 20. Like there's no way they can.

They have to trade up. But a team that doesn't have the long-term answer right now, but needs that short-term fix to get to the long-term answer, it feels like he's that guy. Yeah. Chase Daniels seems like a sort of, I mean, okay, I get it because I, we all have comparison. Yeah.

Well, we always talk about the comparisons and like the 50th percentile of the guy's outcomes probably is a career backup for every one of these guys. And the high end is what you're looking for, for any of these players. But with Sam Howell, the arm strength is what separates're looking for for any of these players but with sam howell the arm strength is what separates it for me that the fact that he really can let loose and throwing the ball down the field like that to me is just as a tool like if you're looking for one tool that guys have and this is where the ritter conversation comes in like okay desmond ritter has this tool of just being like technically sound and doing a lot of technically good things,

which shows up. I think even when you watch him in senior bowl, okay, that's great. But does that really win you football games? Like not really, not unless you are the goat at that, like Tom Brady, but even then his arm strength is absolutely phenomenal. So when you're talking about the tool of having a monster arm, what's the possibility that that works out like much more, right. Or a middle league Willis where it's, what's the possibility that monster arm and incredible running ability works out. Well, now you're just, to me, increasing the odds. And so I don't know that. That's why I am a little interested in this fall by Sam Howell,

but it's all kind of, you know, we're all just sort of taking swings and guesses. I'm seeing different stats every day that show different guys being the best or the worst or why none of them will succeed. And, uh, we'll all try to, you know, analyze it, I guess. But I was going to ask you before we wrapped up though. Um, we are so close yet so far away to the draft. And I saw a take the other day, this might be one of my favorite draft takes of all time because it seemed like the guy was serious. Let me scroll down to my Twitter and grab it here. So this came from a Cincinnati writer, Keith Jenkins, who apparently covers the Bearcats, I think, or he's from USA Today. He said this about Desmond Ritter. I don't want people to go

crazy with this, but he reminds me of Patrick Mahomes. And I thought, are you just looking at things and say, they remind you of Patrick Mahomes? Everything is in the homes really like you're my homes in right now. You remind me right now of my homes. There doesn't need to be a reason. Okay.

Apparently there doesn't need to be a reason. Great comparison. Like I I'm honored. I haven't done anything spectacular today except i worked out at 6 a.m but my homes did too yeah i'm sure he did like my homes so i think that my favorite part of draft season is that as you get closer the takes get so preposterous and then the minute it's over it it's like the Will Smith, you know, what is that in Men in Black? Men in Black? Yeah, right.

Just deletes the memory. We never think about that ever again. It's like when Desmond Ritter becomes a career Josh McCown, which is what I think he'll be, then I want to go back and laugh hysterically at this tweet. But I'll forget about it too because we'll do this whole thing next year. So I just was going to ask you, like, we've done this a a number of times i just want to know what your favorite part is because that's mine is the absolutely outrageous and hilarious takes there's always one player who wants to peacock his way through the draft and like i just look i'm someone who has a lot of confidence right

like i come on this podcast and i try to flex every once in a while even on you um and I not even me at my peak egotistical like if I was just like a complete egomaniac would say I am the best player in the draft I am the best journalist in the world what's like there's always got to be one guy who does that and I saw sauce Gard, the cornerback from Cincinnati said that the other day, I'm like, what do you, what do you gain from this? Do teams really want to hear that from prospects? Like I just, I never understand the rationale when players come out and are willing to put these absurd declarations out there and attach them to themselves because you're setting yourself up for failure.

Because if you were anything less than a pro bowl player your first year in the nfl what the hell did you say that for whatever happened to quiet confidence or like letting your place speak for itself on the field like i like those guys because as much as the fodder is fun and it adds to draft season because now sauce gardner says that that's a segment on nfl live is sauce gardner the best cornerback in the class here's how the other cornerbacks stack up because honestly it's a group that there's no real consensus on the fourth so it's like derrick stingley jr sauce gardner and then it's you have to like kind of sort your

way through the the rest of the draft class to be like, all right, well, who is the fourth guy? I know Mel had, I was trying to find his mock of who he had like going in the second round because, or excuse me. Yeah. So there's, you know, sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley Jr. Those are like one and two. And then Trent McDuffie, the guy that like went to play to Washington. So it's those three. And then it's no one else really is like the consensus fourth.

So I guess if you're not in a very deep class at your position, you can say something like that, but I don't know. It drives me nuts. Okay. I was just looking this up. Cause I remembered that Johnny Manziel had made a bunch of declarations to the Houston Texans because he wanted them to be,

they wanted, he wanted them to draft him at the top of the draft. And he says, this is a quote from Johnny Manziel. I want everybody from the janitor at Reliance Stadium to the front office executive assistant, all the way up to Bob McNair, who's the owner to say, this kid is a hundred percent can't miss. This is who we want being the face of our program we want this texas kid staying in texas and leading the texans well i mean i guess he was arrested for things uh or not was he really arrested i mean maybe just um he's gotten some run-ins had less harmful to other people issues than another quarterback for the

Texans. We'll just say that. And Hey, neither Johnny Manziel or Deshaun Watson plays for the Texans. So I guess you abide as well. But I mean, that's exactly what you're talking about is everybody or not everybody, but a handful of players each year come out and they try to speak it into existence. And it's sort of funny to go back and look and be like, Oh yeah, I remember that. Just feels like you set yourself up for failure like just just be quiet about that part talk about like how great you are but let it show within your play and like give examples of yeah

like i locked down this receiver and in this game and you know xyz but to go out and like give that declaration that's that, you don't set the bar so high on yourself. Don't be Hubert Davis in your first year, because then you have so, such a high thing to live up to. And it's so difficult to replicate that sort of success. Even what you success you've had at the college level, as we know, it's very difficult for corners to play in the NFL, especially those transitioning into their first year, because they don't let you get away with anything in the NFL. In college, you can do whatever the hell you want.

Like, it's very obvious the game is called very differently from the refereeing perspective when you're talking about, like, receiver-cornerback matchups. It's a little harder in the NFL. So you know how many receivers are going to trash talk you in the first year? Like, Sauce Gardner, wherever you end up, I think that, you know, many receivers are going to trash talk you in the first year, like sauce Gardner, wherever you end up. I think that, you know, most people have them going to the jets right now.

Like all of the receivers that you line up against when they burn you or like they draw like a 40 yard DPI on you because you did something. You're going to hear about it. See, now I think that he needs to not get his nickname unless he's actually good like you're just you're a mod until you're actually good and then you could be sauce if you want to be sauce can you lose a nickname from college i mean it comes back it won't matter if you're not good and you're just out of the league, then you could call yourself whatever the heck you want,

but you won't be in the NFL. Okay. I mean, well, you have, you have, was your Norris Jenkins always Jack rabbit Jenkins or he's earned it, but it wasn't,

was he always Jack rabbit because he legally changed his name, I think. So he had to earn Jack rabbit. Okay. I got you. I got you. Right. He's been a good player in the league.

So he earned Jack rabbit Jenkins and Chad Ocho Cinco could call himself whatever the heck he wants. He was the best route runner in the league. So there you go. And just like you have earned your nickname, Courtney are, or our, both are acceptable draft scout.

And your, your scouting is much appreciated on this episode. So, all right, well next week we'll is much appreciated on this episode. So, all right, well next week, uh, we'll get together again. Maybe I think probably,

and we'll talk about what is going on with the bears. What's the best to win with their life? Are they rebuilding or is this bad? They're the bears. There you go. Tom, just don't say more. It's going to end it.