Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks about what the Vikings' loss to Cowboys means and overusing Dalvin Cook into the ground

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Courtney Cronin talk about whether there's any statements from the last 3 weeks that they would take back after the Vikings' loss to the Dallas Cowboys. They discuss the shortcomings of the defensive line and secondary and look at Dalvin Cook's ridiculous usage and the lack of targets for Justin Jefferson. Plus, are we done talking playoffs completely? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Grant Wall and this is American Prodigy, ready to do from Blue Wire Podcast. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin and Courtney, I just want you to begin wherever you want to begin with the Minnesota Vikings' loss to the Dallas Cowboys. There are debates over how much is Kirk's fault. There are in-depth looks into the refereeing. There are fun things to talk about. There is coaching to discuss.

There are playoff scenarios to talk about how they don't really exist at this moment anymore. Where would you like to begin with this? I actually thought about this before we started, and I thought about my pie chart from the other day that you gave me four options of first one was blowout win, second one was close win, the third one was close loss, and fourth one was like blowout no show loss like Atlanta and I remember I took both of the first two like there were one and four basically the blowout style anything completely out of it because I just felt like this Dallas team given they had coming off a bye they particularly well, considering what a dumpster fire they had been all season long in that last game that we saw them playing against Pittsburgh.

So I knew this wasn't going to be a cakewalk. And that's why I think I picked them to win close in a close game. I didn't have them as like the close loss, which honestly, you know, in hindsight and and all of it it could have gone either way um but I just think the way that I look at this whole thing is that did you not see this coming like the letdown thing and I know that like the cheap shot way to like look at and evaluate this team is oh they can't play with expectations that's not really it I don't think it's expectations. I think it's you take a couple steps forward and then a couple steps back,

and they really are not that much better of a team than they were however many weeks ago. I mean, they started out one and five. They clawed their way back against a flawed Green Bay team, against a disaster of a Detroit team that should be, like, you know, promotion and relegation in soccer. Yes. Relegate their ass out of the NFL.

Please. All of them. Lake Michigan. Or at least just Matt Patricia. Yes. The whole staff and everybody. Yeah. All of them gone.

And the Bears are terrible. So it's like I just – I think you could see this coming and know that like the margin of difference in between like good teams and bad teams that are kind of like these mediocre on the cusp are they really that good are they really not and the NFC is like very minimal um you know Dallas obviously is going to be in a good spot if they win Thanksgiving day, certainly because the NFC East is such a dumpster fire. But, you know, I think with the Minnesota Vikings right now, it's, this was so, this is so easy to predict because you couldn't go, you could not go into their final seven games of the year and say five wins automatically dallas carolina jacksonville

bears and detroit again and you could say okay they'd be like nine and seven at worst um i just don't think that was ever going to be possible with this team and like you and i talk about talked about last week on the preview pod everything comes full circle with them that there's no margin for error there was no margin for error today and it only gets like less and less they have no leeway from here on out um it's not going to be a situation of back your way into the playoffs like the final week of the season i honestly think it's going to come down before that and this was a game that you had to win like everything now is you know even before the Dallas game was a must-win situation just because how they how poorly they started they didn't give themselves much cushion to be able to

sprinkle in some losses here and there um and that's just kind of how I look at it with the Dallas game and obviously there's a lot of different ways that you can go with it certainly special teams is still a mess it wasn't nearly as glaring throughout the game and certainly in the first half um in the bad field position that they gave denver or excuse me talus there at the end of the game but you know the defense regressed but that's what you expect i think when you have like nobody nobody smart was saying that defense is completely fixed. It was you found a fix to the issues. It's not that it's completely everything's great, everything's turned around. It's you found a solution.

That's not a solution that's going to last you every single game from here on out. Other teams are going to figure that out. And today it was, you know you know the way they played against the run I don't know what happened I mean you know I'm not even talking about the Tony Pollard um you know Chris Jones business decision type play I'm talking about Ezekiel Elliott and some of those big runs that he broke off I mean they played him okay early on I want to say. But when you take a look at, like, what happened with him specifically, so overall they gained a season, Cowboys that is, season-high 143 rushing yards before contact.

That's the most the Vikings allowed all season. And then, you know, Ezekiel Elliott, 74 yards of his 103 yards before initial contact like what's going on there he wasn't even the one that broke the big run no that was Tony Pollard it's just like you know there's a million ways you can go with it if I have to like boil it down into like a quick elevator speech the offense didn't lose them that game yes Kirk had 137 in one timeout yeah he played just like you expect him to in a situation like that on the line. But had your defense not given up that fourth down and left Dalton Schultz uncovered in the end zone, that was the easiest touchdown that Andy Dalton had all day.

You're not in that situation. Like, I don't know how many more times we can say it. You can't trust this defense to go out and contain a lead at the end of the game it's just not going to work with this group they were very much now i i look at dallas and the vikings as two teams looking in the mirror at each other because they both have a lot of talent and they both have a lot of holes and they both have a lot of problems and maybe dallas is one um ben dinucci start away from having the exact same record as the Vikings. If Andy Dalton starts that game against Philly, they win and beat Philadelphia.

And then we're talking about how these two teams are exactly alike. Like they've got Lawrence over there and Alden Smith over there. And Elliott, you mentioned, did not look like he had the same burst as he once did, but is still a good player. And so you have a lot of good receivers, CeeDee Lamb with an unbelievable touchdown catch. And it's the same as saying, well, the Vikings have Adam Thielen and they have Jefferson and Eric Hendricks.

And then you start going through the holes and there are so many. And I also think with a team like this, with the position that they were put in, it's sort of like playing poker each week. And I'm not a poker expert. So if someone is, and I messed this up, then feel free to correct me on whatever, Twitter or email or something. But I look at it as when you get put in a position to have to push all the chips to the middle of the table every single week, that eventually a couple of cards get flipped up that

just aren't good for you. And you might be able to bluff your way through it, but you probably can't over and over and over and over again. And eventually the cards came up the wrong way. And I thought that that was a lot of the case in Dallas. Like you earned the loss by repeatedly not being able to stop them. And the one fourth down that they got to stop was handed to them by a dropped pass. Or maybe, I don't know, Andy Dalton threw it too hard. But the guy was open and it should have been a first down anyway. And also confusing that they just didn't run two times in a row there with all the success they were having running. about this though with you is the things that we were saying a week ago and do we want to change them I don't think that any of us threw a playoff party after last week and started saying like yay they're in the postseason um but maybe in terms of the progress of some things on this team we

could pump some brakes a little bit and I definitely think that that is the case when it comes to defensive line and maybe even with some of the coverage that, you know, Mike Zimmer can cover up a lot. But Andy Dalton, he gets rid of the ball quick, unlike Nick Foles. And so when you send all these blitzes, that's great. But when you have a quarterback who can get rid of the ball quick and diagnose them because he's actually a decent NFL quarterback, then it kind of mitigates that one trump card that you have, I guess, that you've been using over the last couple of weeks. So I wonder if there is anything on your mind that we were talking about over the last couple of weeks as they were winning, that after seeing this Dallas

game, you would go, and let me walk that back a little bit I mean you bring up the defensive line I'll start there so Zimmer today let me try to find the quote really quickly because he was talking about like the pressure and and all of that and like you know did you know cleaning up this it was a question about like cleaning up the penalties in the second half and how he thought that they were going to win the game because they had two penalties in the second half and how he thought that they were going to win the game because they had two penalties in the second half I think both of them were on the defensive line um but it was better than in the first half when they had six or 60 yards um and like Zimmer was talking about how he felt like they had pressured him pretty decently like you know at some point said uh where is it right here and unfortunately Dalton made some good plays.

He scrambled on the third down a couple of times where we had good spots, good pressure on him early in the game. Do you know the pressure stats for Andy Dalton? He got pressured on four of his 34 dropbacks. He was over two passing, stacked once and scrambled once for seven yards on that play. That's what I would have seen. I didn't see any pressure.

No, me neither. I mean, I think it's fair that Mike wants to say that, but I didn't see any pressure on Andy Dalton that whole game. I didn't either, and that's just like, have you reached your ceiling? Is that kind of what we're dealing with here, that these players on the defensive line have have we reached have we have have we reached where we can go with this conversation have the vikings tapped all of the potential that they possibly could have out of these guys that it's just not going to get any better than

what it looks like right now because you have teddy bridgewater next week you have gardner minshu it's not like you have the cream of the crop of these guys with escapability or get the ball out quick um but is it going to look much different than it has the last few weeks and is it going to result in being able to flip this thing around and then you know you get to to one game over 500 potentially I mean like you'd be sick. Or, you know, you'd get back to 600 with two wins in these next few weeks. Like, I just feel you're chasing.

You're just constantly chasing your shadow here. And that's the problem. Like, the coverage units itself. I mean, think about some of those early touchdowns. The one with CeeDee Lamb on the far side of the field, on their sideline. Like, once again, what was the issue? Corners were caught with their eyes in the wrong place. Like, they're trailing this guy.

And I just don't know. Like, can you fix that? Because it just feels like that reverted. And it's like, maybe it's just time. Maybe it's something that takes a whole season to grasp. Maybe they're not very good. And these are not the guys that you want playing back there but like I just don't know how you fix that now I mean just

like you know I I do feel for Mike Zimmer in a sense where it's got to be really frustrating where you're constantly going back to the drawing board to figure like okay well what now what do I have to change this week it's not like there's anything really that feels like it can carry over from week to week with this defense yeah I totally agree and I think that defenses that have huge holes are exactly this way and even look at Dallas like Dallas has a bunch of holes on defense they have some good defensive linemen they actually for a good portion of the game stopped Delvin Cook and then he broke through you through a number of times as the game went along. But it didn't feel like he was just steamrolling them for the entire 60 minutes as it did, say, with Detroit or some other games so far this year.

And they did get after Kirk Cousins at times. They pressured him, especially early in the game. Sometimes he made good plays. Another time he fumbled. So it was an impact for them. But it feels the same way where it's like they can be good at times because there's talent there, but there's not enough talent there to be good consistently.

And I think you make a great point that eventually you just have to say that the ups and downs, some weeks you're there, some weeks you're not. That's who you are as a lot of the players, not just as in a unit completely, because Eric Hendricks is the same guy every week, and my God, is he good. And he was just absolutely terrific again. And, you know, Eric Wilson is kind of starting to be that same guy every week. Harrison Smith, although there was a problem in the coverage, I don't know who that's on though

I don't like to declare for sure it was definitely a guy in coverage's fault because it's harder to say with that than some other things that go wrong but you know what he's going to bring you know what Anthony Harris is going to bring but the rest of them on a week-to-week basis Jalen Holmes might play well and then he might not and then you know Jaleel Johnson might do okay and then he might not and then you know jaleel johnson might do okay and then he might not and that's i think after you get several years into these guys careers and we've seen them as a bigger sample of you've gotten to play 50 or 40 snaps a game this is who you are this is who you're going to be and then you start circling those guys on the roster and say okay how many guys are like that that's that says more backup than starter?

The answer is kind of a lot. The answer is, now that we have this sample of, oh, you were good last week, oh, but you're not so good this week. Aside from Jeff Gladney, who I don't want to judge at all in year one, just because of the position, I mean, most of these guys who have been developed for a few years, like this is who they are. And that's why in the future, you have to find better players to be playing these positions for a lot years. Like, this is who they are, and that's why in the future you have to find better players to be playing these positions for a lot of them.

Well, I mean, that's, like, the thing. Like, you know I make the joke about replacement players? Like, I'm not really joking. This is a mishmash group of defensive linemen, and I know Andre Patterson and the the thing that Hercules Mata'afa talked with us about last week and Patterson reiterated it, like, look around the room. How many of you are first round picks? Nobody raised your hand. Second round picks. Nobody raised your hand. Third, blah, blah, blah. It goes on and on and on. Yes, that is something certainly to be

proud of, but it's not yielding the results. There's a big difference in talent. There's a talent gap to where this group used to be and where it is now um you've never felt the loss of Michael Pierce probably more than on a game like today yeah I agree you felt Daniil Hunter all season long and I think that this is kind of just something too where we can like talk about those losses and the injuries till we're blue in the face there's no point in rehashing it now, but it's like, okay, then what does that make your draft priorities next year? Because Johnson's gone. He's in the fourth year of his rookie deal.

They're not bringing him back. There's no point. I think you, I mean, Shamar Steffen's not your nose tackle next year. Michael Pierce is. What are you going to do at three technique? The whole rotation thing you have going now while it worked against chicago um because chicago doesn't have a great offensive line also nick foals is just easy easy target statue back there like you just need i think honestly we can start being able to piece together their draft priorities over these next few games depending upon how they go um because it's so

blatantly obvious the defensive line needs a lot of attention next year in terms of high draft capital or maybe even free agency granted their situation isn't great next year um but i do think that they're in a situation that i just don't know with the defensive line if it's going to get much better than where it is right now. I don't think that it is either. And then other things depend. I mean, how does Michael Pierce come back? Is he a dominant player still?

And is Daniil Hunter here? Because that conversation has already percolated a bit about whether he would be traded and so forth and re-signed. I expect him to be here, but I don't know that for sure. And then you start asking, well, how many holes do you have to fill with how much cap space? And the answers get pretty darn difficult. And maybe that's one thing. I'm not going to walk this back, but I would say I might break pump a little on from what we saw today which is just that you can have Zimmer just scheme your way to being decent or average or give you a chance now they

were in position to potentially win this game despite all of the issues on the defensive side and probably that plays into him being able to scheme. But, I mean, players are ultimately going to determine how good you are. And you are on defense only as good as your weakest link, or in this case, links. And when the other team can have a backup quarterback in and a bad offensive line that's really beat up and they're just running over you, you have a lot of work to do. And like you said, it's not just, hey, get Michael Pierce back. It's who's playing the other spots too, because I think we know that none of these positions are a hundred percent resolved for going forward.

And I appreciate that because I have a tendency to do this, that when I nail something to be like, I'm dunking this thing all year long. And you have just talked about this position in the Zimmer defense of the three technique and how important it was. For like three years. Right, and then it's like it's been your hill to die on, and you're not dead because they continue to not pay attention to this position.

And I just remember Andre Patterson talking about how Armond Watts and Jaleel Johnson and how well they played in one of the games this has become kind of the point about all these defensive linemen in one of the games they're all capable of being good in one of the games but the next game they might not be and that's exactly what we got today against the Cowboys was well you were good against Chicago, but you weren't good here. And then you didn't get them in the favorable down and distance or anything else like that. So I would say that the saying there are limits to my power.

Well, there are limits to Zimmer's power. And I think we we saw that in that case. So what about the offensive side? Because do you have do you have a number on how often Kirk Cousins was pressured? It felt like it started out a lot. It was a lot. I know the first half number was 7 of 15 dropbacks, so it's 47%. It was a lot.

And I honestly, it's kind of crazy right now that we're talking about, you know, Ezra Cleveland, like, man, they really missed Ezra Cleveland today. And yeah, we're going to have to watch it back to see where that pressure came from. But I mean, he, he was struggling there in the first half and I think it's honestly to a product of like, we were touting this offensive line the last few weeks. Why? Cause they're run blocking a ton yeah like I mean Kirk was not throwing the ball nearly as much as he did obviously in Chicago um you know and even today

20 of 22 of 30 for 314 yards three touchdowns like he played really well um there again I think that that's something where it's kind of this inexact science of some weeks. And luckily for their case, they've been good for three weeks. It's not like an up-and-down yo-yo every single week. The offensive line seemed to figure it out for all intents and purposes the last three weeks. I just think that once they figured it out, what did Kirk say? Got the boots going. Play action.

Like, I just – sometimes I wonder, well, why does it take so long? Like, what am I missing here? Because, you know, when you're going, like, in the first half or whatever, when Justin Jefferson makes that Willie Mays catch, and then you run the ball, and you run the ball, and then you run it again, you get a screen. Like, what are you doing? Like, that's the type of stuff i

don't understand like is that is the protection making you do that like what you know i truly think and this kind of makes me i trust me i have a dalvin cook point i'm like kind of like chomping at the bit to get to here because i think i'm the only one who honestly cares this guy's getting run into the actually no you care too but i really care about this guy getting run into the ground because it doesn't make any sense um but you know when i think of like this offense they don't have a plan b it's make sure you keep doing plan a until it busts through and that's what happened in the second half why because dallas's defense is really not that good and eventually you're gonna wear them down which they did but you know i just they're gonna run into somebody that doesn't allow that plan a to work whatsoever um because you run the risk of getting dalvin to

a point where you can't keep running plan a where it's just keep wearing the ball balled out wearing the run wearing the team other team down with your run game, things like that. Like, and that's, you know, fortunately it worked, but they were so effective there in the third quarter, they run 20 plays because, you know, they run quite effectively because Dalvin pops a couple, right. And then they run the deep crosser with feeling 51 yard catch and six plays later it's the red zone touchdown i mean there's things that work it's just like it was so

you know i won't say it was too little too late because everybody's going to have a first half like that but i guess it's kind of what you expect if that's if you have a formula and you are literally sticking to the formula and not deviating from it whatsoever. I want to remind you to go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. There are many great designs. Someone on Twitter recently sent their John Randall shirt, and there's the Can't Stop the Feeling hats, the Tecmo Bowl throwback shirt, and much more.

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original Minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping. Do you think that they are asking, almost in like completely ironic fashion, asking Kirk to do way too much when their whole goal is to have him not do anything or be protected by the circumstances, that that's their goal, is to have him only make the throws he needs to make and just run the play actions and be in favorable down and distance. But by doing things like you described after the Jefferson 27-yard catch, they are actually saying, Kirk, we're going to put you in tougher spots, and you're going to be in third and

longs, like you were against Chicago all night long, and he was in third and longs in this game. Yeah, especially in the first half. Right, and some of the game was just penalties and things like that, which he came through, but they've been saying over at least these last two games, inadvertently, here's a bunch of tough situations to be in, and some of that's not Gary Kubiak and not play calling it's just teammates like they allow him to get strip sacked they uh you know have Delvin Cook fumble and so forth they had the drop from Justin Jefferson where they're saying

like overcome this overcome this overcome this and some of it is overcome us putting you in third down and six and seven and eight all the time. And I think that actually under those circumstances over these last two weeks, he's been terrific for the most part. But asking him to do that all the time is not a really good situation. And I felt today, and I'll just tee this right up for you. I felt today at one point like I'm not seeing quite the same burst from Delvin Cook, who is a monster running back and has, I mean, what does this guy do in the offseason? Let me get a look at that because to be able to handle what he's handled these last couple of weeks is just outrageous.

But this is not 2004 Sean Alexander. Like this is 2020 where every team has two or three running backs Tony Pollard is out there you know breaking 50-yard runs and here's the Vikings just hand off the same guy over and over and over like he's Adrian Peterson a guy with an injury history a guy who wore down in the second half of last season and I mean at some point you've got to have an answer you spent a third round pick on Alexander Madison for him to play like two plays so I you know I think that uh all kind of put together that they have been putting Cousins in situations where he's got to overcome how much they're obsessed with running Delvin Cook and then they're putting Cook in a bad situation because they're just giving him the ball every play.

Yeah, so he had 35 touches today, 28 rushing attempts, and then five catches. So 27 rushing – excuse me, my math is off. 27 rushing attempts, five targets, five catches, so that's 32. That's nuts. Like he had 34 touches last week. He tied a career high with 30 rushing attempts last week which he also had against green bay you're right i saw the same dalvin cook that you saw um where you know i thought about it like that first touchdown he had like you know he usually lets the offensive line spike it like for him like hell no he was so frustrated with like how

much they were beating the bleep out of him at the goal line he took that sucker and he spiked it and you know i could i could almost like see as i was watching him through my binoculars just like the angst inside him like man they are literally beating me black and blue right now. They are physical on their defensive line. Very much so. I mean, like, you know, their red zone defense is, like, middle of the pack. But, hell, they were strong at the goal line. They were the whole day. And, you know, I just – I don't know.

Like, because it doesn't make any sense. I mean, yeah, Alexander Alexander Madison if you look at the snap count for him like I mean he was on the field several plays and it was just as a decoy um he had one reception or excuse me one rush for six yards what what's cool what about what's going on here because I just don't keep telling us we want to spell Dalvin Cook we need to use Madison some more we need to do that because you're not doing it because you know you can't you know that that's not going to work because that's going to end up like Atlanta all over again like I just don't understand it because you know you can't have this three down back workhorse guy when he is literally the only

one if you had another one of those sure but I don't think that guy's Alexander Madison I really don't and Cook went over 100 yards again 115 rushing yards one touchdown in in that play that second and eight play honestly it's a little bit on Kirk I think he put him in a bad spot there over the middle of the field where he got popped and yeah if there were fans inside the u.s bank stadium that place would have been dead silent because i saw him down i was like oh boy i think i texted you in the middle of that i was like here we go like you know and he got off and he walked to the sideline um he came back right away like he's got to be feeling horrible right now and yes of course

he says it's just football it's all this is what you expect but man he took a beating today maybe i just maybe i'm skeptical because i just don't understand how much more of that you can do when you're him when when you're anybody really i mean clearly they are not worried about anything other than this season that is that is what it tells me that they don't give a crap about the contract beyond this year saving him preserving him whatever like for longevity running back is a depreciation like that is it's the epitome of depreciation for a position and he's going to depreciate significantly as the as he keeps getting these many touches but it's like at what point do they

have to look themselves in the mirror and stop lying to themselves that they are wearing the hell out of him because it is too much yes in the second half they were effective with their runs these dalvin broke a couple and it allowed them to sell play action allow them to be effective but how many times how many more times can you keep doing it that specific way i i just don't get it so i was looking at todd gurley and you know obviously a famous fall off for todd gurley he's been thrown under that category of the contract didn't work out and he had three years of 300 plus touches in a row and then after that he just went off the edge of the wall and the interesting part is he was only 25 years old when that happened when he had that complete fall off

after getting that many touches and we do see that and Delvin Cook right now is about that age and he's already had the injury history that goes along with it. And when you're talking about like, do you guys have any sort of big picture view? And the answer is absolutely not. I mean, Zimmer basically admitted that where he said, well, you know, a lot of it's game situation. And today they're saying, well, we've got to win. So Delvin Cook, get back out there.

You're our best player. Get back out there, get back out there. And it's like, I get it, but you're almost like, there and it's like i get it but you're almost like uh did you ever see what is it like varsity blues you ever see varsity blues like where the coach wants to shoot everybody out it's like a ridiculous movie the coach the coach just wants to like stick a needle in everybody and the guy tears his acl he's like just stick a needle in him send him back out there like i don't think acl works that way but that's okay uh science was not included in varsity blues but it feels the same way we're just like get back out there just it doesn't it doesn't matter i gotta win this game we gotta get back in the playoffs

we gotta save our butts here we we gotta compete and you're the best player so you go play and every team that has done this now some of them are competing for Super Bowls, like Todd Gurley with the Los Angeles Rams. The Vikings are not competing for a Super Bowl in doing this. And then what you wonder is, okay, 2021 is supposed to be your year. Yes, and you're going to be healthy and fresh for it. Right, and I can get talked into that. I mean, I can get talked into 2021 being a good season for this team, especially with the outlook of the NFC North, which I had a podcast on about how it just looks like the

Vikings are going to have a path to be very good in the North. But we know their offense is just surrounded around Delvin Cook. And if he loses a step, a half a step, if he's Ezekiel Elliott, what version we saw of him today, which I thought was not very explosive, this offense is going to be significantly hindered as I think Dallas is other than today has been for a lot of their season. It should be something that should be very wary of to have him miss a game this year, hobble off the field several times so far. It's just like, I thought you drafted Madison.

So this could be a jerek mckinnon and yes furry thing and it has not been i don't get like what's the deal like is madison just like not coming along quickly enough because here's what i don't understand help me because i'm confused um so drew samia was playing in that game in seattle when madison had the career highhigh 20 carries, over 100-something yards, the whole thing. So it's like the offensive line was technically in a worse shape then. That was the game that Drew Simea looked like he wanted to cry,

and that was the end of his career as the right guard of this team. It's brutal. And what worked that game? Because I don't know what it was. I mean, Seattle's defense is terrible. I think that was it. But Dallas' defense is not good either. And I'm just – I struggle with that because, you know, we can talk about field vision.

We can talk about all these things with running backs and what makes Dalvin special versus what makes everybody else everybody else. Like, what is the right backup running back for this team? Dalvin special versus what makes everybody else, everybody else like what, what, what is the right backup running back for this team? Because it feels that they kind of drafted that same prototype as Dalvin, but they're just not getting any of that production out of him. But the fact that he only had one carry for six yards today, that, that says something to me that says, we don't trust you.

We need Dalvin cook out there. Like, and you're not going to of course course, get another Dalvin Cook. The draft capital it would take to do that, it's just they've got other needs. That's not what they're going to do if they just paid this guy a boatload of money over five years and guaranteed him 28 mil. They're not going to do that. But I say all that to say, well what's alexander madison doing here so i was looking at his numbers what the hell is mike boone doing here like where's that guy

where's that guy not blocking on punts two weeks ago yeah allegedly i'm saying where's amir abdullah so now it's still a small sample size so keep that in mind but over his career now for Alexander Madison, 171 carries at 4.6 yards per carry. And he's caught 19 passes out of 23 targets for 7.5 yards per reception, which is about, you know, what you expect from any running back. I mean, these are good numbers for a running back. And some of it I get is him just, you know, pounding away at a defense at the end when Delvin Cook has already beaten him into a pulp, I understand. But as you mentioned, when they needed him to step in and perform, he did against Seattle. It is, I think, clear that he can't make something out of absolutely

nothing, as Delvin Cook does, but can you get competent running play and then scheme him to be good? Isn't this Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison the two guys that make every running back good I mean isn't that them so okay these two guys make Delvin Cook legendary with the type of statistics he's put up but you know I mean the next guy should be at least competent and good and then hey I don't know throw the ball to Justin Jefferson like isn't that right I mean the first half of this game was like did he do something wrong give him the football like it doesn't have to always be a play action 40 yard shot play it can be like a screen is that allowed to throw to Justin Jefferson who's one of the most dynamic players with the ball you have to find a way to just not be like, let's see,

I've got a bunch of buttons here I could push. I'm pushing the Delvin button. Oh, let's see, what do I do? Delvin, Delvin, Delvin. It's just like, okay. But even he has to be like, come on. I know, I know. And it's just like, think about the tight end stuff.

Like on that first drive, or excuse me, the second one, what was he doing? Forcing the ball to the tight end.. Like, on that first drive – or, excuse me, the second one, what was he doing? Forcing the ball to the tight end. And that was a great thing. It worked. And then where'd they go? Where'd they go?

Like, leave the stadium? It's a great point. It just – you know, I don't get it. Like, you know, it was working, and then you stop. And it's like, did you just like, oh, shoot, I forgot. Like, tight ends, I forgot about them. Like like come back here like you know i don't rudolph for like a seven yard gain and i went like huh it was yeah i guess and like i just i was really wondering today what that was going to look like i thought i'd be writing this week about kyle rudolph and justin jeff and um herb

smith and seeing okay now that herb's, is he actually taking over Kyle's role? Both of them were fine in the first quarter, and then they didn't do anything. It's not their fault, but, like, you know, I mean, they were forcing it to Dalvin Cook in the passing game, and by the time he got hurt, I was kind of thinking in my mind, like, damn, he's pretty good in the passing game. Like, he's becoming a factor in it, and then he gets, you know,

wind knocked out of him whatever comes out um and he did finish five catches for 45 yards i thought that was impressive i mean it's not alvin camara he's never going to be alvin camara in the passing game but he looks good but to use justin jefferson so infrequently early on was criminal and here here look at this like Thielen was targeted 11 times what is this telling you this is what happens when Kirk Cousins gets locked on to one guy he trusts and is not gonna go as frequently other places you can't tell me it was that you know Justin Jefferson's drawing you know number one cornerback attention the entire time. Dallas doesn't have one. No, they don't. They don't have a number one corner.

And there was one play that, like, I can't remember. It was down the Viking sideline that got broken up. There was one for Jefferson, one of his five targets that I was like, okay, they blanketed. Five targets is a total that should put you in, local county jail. Like someone has to spend a night in jail if Justin Jefferson has five targets in a football game the rest of the way. That should get you arrested. The police should show up and say, you are in contempt of football.

You are going to jail. Like this is a major problem, honestly, because Mike Zimmer is in love with Gary Kubiak, and I get that, and everyone loves Gary. He's a wonderful person with an incredible career. But if your whole thing is not throwing to Justin Jefferson unless it's 40 yards down the field, I don't know what you're doing in 2020. And it was frustrating in Chicago to watch them just, oh,

let's wait until third and 11 to throw to Jefferson. And then here again today. That's what they did today. That's what I was saying. I found the play. The second quarter, they were third and nine from their own 26, and that was the shot down – it wasn't down their sideline. I think it was down Dallas'.

I have to watch the game back. But I just remember it specifically being like, is the coverage changing? Is it becoming kind of – and i honestly think that is some of what it is that teams are finally figuring out his routes and the way that he runs them in all of that that's cool and everything but like when he runs inside out from the slot for that touchdown you still see like damn that's why we drafted that guy unstoppable he's unstoppable he just killed that guy and he killed the guy in the willies-style catch. Like, I just, you know, I don't understand it. Like, I mean, because remember, like, early on, how much, like, weeks, like, one and two,

Kirk was forcing the ball the way of Thielen, and it's like, oh, boy, here we go. Like, is he just not going to, like, try to throw to anybody else? Is it going to become a problem? Like, is it a volume issue? Is it that he doesn't trust anybody else? It's just that confidence type thing. I almost kind of, there's a twinge of that today for me. I don't know if it's real, but that's kind of what it felt like when Thielen has 11 targets

and the next most targeted receiver is Justin freaking Jefferson with five. 2020 has already reshaped how we work and it's almost over. Businesses across the globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical. Indeed is here to help. Indeed is the number one job site in the world with more total visits than any other job site, according to Comscore. Indeed helps you find quality candidates quickly

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And let me tie this into your Delvin point. 2021 is the most important thing in the world for the Minnesota Vikings. And if you're going to force the ball to anybody, if you're going to game plan things to go to somebody, you already know Adam Thielen is great. You're trying to set up Justin Jefferson to be as experienced as he possibly can be. And Gary Kubiak was even talking about how well we want to, you know,

open things up for him more each week and have him understand the game plan, all these things. And then you go to him five times in the entire game. That's not what you need to be doing. It needs to be, if it's less than 10, Jake Browning spends the night in jail. And that's it. Sean Mannion. Is Nate Stanley still around? Hey, they've got a backup sniper who can go to jail for them.

Somebody's got to be punished for this when you have fewer than 10 throws to Justin Jefferson. And you know what I think is you can operate kind of a pseudo running game by throwing short passes that they just like seem to refuse to want to throw a lot of times. And it worked a little bit in some previous games and then they went away from it. And then we're required to hit on big plays against Chicago. and you just felt like if you do that again it's it's gonna hurt you at some

point it didn't kill them today but i thought it played a role in them getting behind in the game with just you're not going to your top guy enough and that needs to change yeah one other question i had because i remember they did this with cd lamb you know they they've been known to use a significant amount of pre-snap motion um here and there uh throughout this season obviously definitely last year too but like why don't they run more jet sleeps with the receivers jefferson should be jefferson jefferson it should be they ran that they ran that with Diggs a lot. Like, why don't they run that with Jefferson? And Jefferson's better with the ball in his hands than Diggs by a mile,

I think, on those. He, like, has vision. Like, for whatever reason, Stephon Diggs was not great on those jet sweeps. There's an easy flow chart that they could easily do. Like, you're throwing the ball. Are you throwing it to Justin Jefferson? Iferson if no throw it to jefferson like that's your flow chart this is like is the answer no then still throw it to jefferson if the

answer is yes still throw it to jefferson like adam thielen is is spectacular made more great catches today great game by him i just it can't be five it just can't be five like no i mean it's got it there's got a balance they got to balance that out because I think even when you had Diggs and Thielen here, you didn't have that big of a discrepancy. And granted, it is one game. I get it. But, like, this is a game that you could have won. It really was.

And the offense played – like, I know that people are going to say, well, Kirk in the game-winning drive and 137 in one timeout. Yeah, I know. And Jefferson on second down, well, Kirk in the game-winning drive and 137 in one timeout. Yeah, I know. And Jefferson on second down is probably kicking himself in the butt tonight for not catching. Like, you've got to catch that. You've ran your, like, 90,000 routes out of the slot at LSU. Like, that is your bread and butter.

That's how you became a first-round pick. You've got to catch that. But, like, I can't blame him for that. He's probably furious at himself right now for that. So it's not really neither here either here nor there like whatever but like I think that they just have to I don't know what the fix is other than like drawing up more stuff for Justin Jefferson but I mean I kind of say all of that to say that the offense didn't lose you this game they didn't like

the defense is back out on the field at the end of the game, and you're just holding your breath if you're Mike Zimmer being like, please don't screw this up. And then there's that big gain on fourth down. It was a 19-yard pass to Amari Cooper, I believe, to get the fresh set of downs and special teams and all of that and the field position. Like they just, we saw this coming. Like, and I honestly, I will,

I think you and I are harsher on this offense and Kirk Cousins and obviously some of the things that we've said in this podcast today, just about Dalvin Cook and the usage and what the hell they're doing and all this stuff. But I just, I don't, I don't blame the offense entirely for this loss. Like if I'm going to pinpoint it somewhere else, the defensive collapse yet again, that leads them to be in this position. Right.

You shouldn't put your offense in a position to have game winning drives all the time. This is something that I also go back and forth when we're talking about the Jefferson ratio, not as catchy as Randy ratio, and how much they're giving it to Cook and running and all those things is the offense was great. I mean, overall, but you always seem to have to rely on hitting these huge plays. And I know that's a Kubiak philosophy, but when you always have to hit those, that's where it gets tough. If someone stops them or if someone pressures you and gets after you or or chases you

down on the bootlegs and we did see that at times during this game and at the end where it was like okay you need the big play and they're ready for it now so um they yeah they have a very good offense there's no question about it but i think that um tweaking the philosophy to a keep an eye on the future with Jefferson but also kind of understanding what you should be doing in 2020 to win football games like the modern way of playing is also a thing that just seems each week like is a push and pull with this team so let me ask you it used to be a really good wide receiver screen granted that was two coordinators ago but they were like a really good wide receiver screen. Granted, that was two coordinators ago. But they were like a really good team with wide receiver screens.

They were actually the best in the NFL at this point two years ago. Just throwing that out there. I remember specifically that Rams game and the Eagles game in 2018. They used screens with digs very effectively under John DeFilippo. So let me ask you just before we wrap this up, are you, let me do a little Jim Moore here, like playoffs? Like are we good? Like are you even talking about like playoffs? Can't even beat the Cowboys.

Like are you still thinking about that? I mean, I don't think it's crazy to still think about it because the NFC. Yeah, I still do. I just feel like, you know, the realist in me looks at this being like, this is probably a, you know, are they going to beat the Panthers next week? Is Teddy going to be playing? I don't know. I think that that boils down to it.

I mean, they just blew out the Lions. Lions are terrible. You know, will they beat Jacksonville when Gardner Minshew inevitably comes back for week 13? I don't know. I think the path to the playoffs is possible, but there's just like

it's like a Rubik's Cube. There's so many different combinations that have to happen in order for them to get there. And it kind of like when you don't control your destiny, it almost feels like you're juggling so many things in the air and it's like if one thing falls and it's not in your control like it's you're done um and i feel like they're gonna be and i just have this feeling they're gonna be in a spot where they're like scoreboard watching their week 17 in detroit trying to figure out hey can we actually get into this thing um and i honestly

feel like they might be headed for a letdown at that point but i mean sure i think we can still talk playoffs at four and six i mean the patriots lost today they were a four and five team too um you know if you look around the nfc right now they're i believe two games back in the wild card behind arizona and arizona's got got to figure out ways to win and they they've got a hard, hard, hard, hard stretch of NFC West opponents towards the end of the year. Maybe that'll help the Vikings. But, again, it's like none of this you can control.

Right. Gaining two games on a team with how many to go now? We have six games to go and you've got to gain two? It's always reminded me of the hockey thing where, like, you'll talk about being in 11th place and you'll say, oh, well, they're only three points out of, you know, eighth place, but then this team plays that team and then you have to get hot and they have to get cold and they get a fall back. And you know,

when NFC West teams play each other there, someone's going to win that you need to chase down. And so it's like you need one team to collapse, and I'm not sure Arizona's going to collapse because they're pretty decent. And they also have some, I think, easy teams on their schedule as well. So what do you think their, let's just say ESPN, playoff percentage will be? Do you already know it? No, I don't.

Okay. So take a guess. Today. I don't have it. I just want to know what you think. If they would have won today, I believe it would have gone up to 38% chance. I would assume now it probably drops back down to like mid twenties, probably like one in four.

I think it's going to be lower. I think it's going to be like 15 because you could very well lose to, I mean, I don't know how these odds work exactly, but, but I mean, you could very well lose the Carolina and then all of a sudden it's just, it's kind of over at that point. So I, I think that the path that they have to take and all the things that have to go wrong now, assuming that there are seven teams and not eight, I think it'll be like 14 or something we'll see yeah no i mean it could be and it's like you know there's no room for error here like i don't

i know that this team wants to take it one at a time and that's fine if that's how they want to get through it but it just feels like there's literally no way that this team can lose another game um you know at least the easy ones i hate saying that they're all yeah they're not easy anymore i mean we could have if they beat dallas we could call them the easy teams they're not yeah it's like it's like then if you can't beat a dallas team that you know, gone through all the quarterback turmoil that it went through and just how bad they look the first four weeks of the season. And then you have, like you can't beat them. You can't like take Carolina as a cakewalk or Jacksonville as a cakewalk.

You know, I mean, Jacksonville may be in a very obvious tanking situation, but like you still, I just don't think you can look at it like that. So the way that I kind of you know I just I don't know I just feel like you're not going to be 10 and 6 that's like the feeling for this team right now would be 10 and 6 right because you'd win you'd have to win every single game from here on out not gonna happen not gonna happen but is 8 and 8 good enough to get you in there i'm going to say no i don't i don't think so like i mean if you would have asked me a couple weeks ago maybe but now as i kind of look around at like those in the hunt teams i mean you can take

chicago out of the picture they're five and five they stink so they'll be out of there um arizona's decent they're getting better um but there's still two games ahead of the Vikings. Right. So, I mean, the Rams got to watch out for them. What else am I forgetting? San Francisco. Like, I mean, there's just a lot. The path is just, after this loss, the path is not that hard for any of those teams.

I mean, if all you need to do to keep the Vikings out of the playoffs is go 9-7, that's three wins for Arizona. That's three wins for the Los Angeles Rams. I mean, it's just, you're not asking about a very high bar for them to reach, play the most mediocre football you can Rams and Arizona, and you keep the Vikings out of the playoffs. And even with, even with Chicago, like they're still up on you. So, I mean, even with them, we've seen them. They beat Tom Brady one night. So, like they don't even – they could just be a 500 team down the stretch

and still match you and still potentially beat you if you play the same way with a lot of mistakes. So, yeah, I think that this was a torpedo hitting the side of your playoff boat, basically. Like maybe a bunch of stuff went overboard early on, but you sort of patched it up and you're floating along in the ocean trying to reach playoff island. And you're like, guys, I think we're going to make it.

And then a torpedo or something, an iceberg you hit. That was today. I think that that's a huge, huge blow. So anyway, well, this was fun. I'm glad we could do it. Me too. Let's do it more often. Just the regular amount.

Yeah, either way. Okay, thanks.