Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks us into a Kirk Cousins trade and the kicking situation being fine

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Matthew Coller gets together again with ESPN's Courtney Cronin for a game of "Talk Me Into," where they present each other with unlikely ideas that the other person has to make an argument for. They talk about the kicking game, Chad Beebe as potentially WR3 again, Cam Dantzler competing with Bashaud Breeland, trading Kirk Cousins to the Denver Broncos for Teddy Bridgewater and the Vikings reaching the Super Bowl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin inside of TCO Performance Center. Once again, where it is nice and cool and air-conditioned, that will not be the case out in the practice field when we go out there shortly. Courtney, how are you? I'm good. Maybe I can get some of this conditioning that Mike Zimmer was talking about benefiting from the heat and humidity in practice on Monday.

He said that the team's not in the shape that it needs to be in, and apparently they're going to – I wonder, does that mean they're going to be running gassers at practice today? I don't know what he's alluding to, but apparently they're going to be focusing on their conditioning at practice. So maybe we should focus on ours too. This is much more traditional Camp Zim than what we saw with him becoming the leader of the vaccination

movement. This calling out linebackers, saying that they all need to step up outside of Nick Vigil, saying that we need to be in better shape, saying you can't wait to hit somebody else. Like these are the camp things that we expect. We don't expect indictments and things like that. We expect just, you know, Zimmer saying, come on, linebackers, learn how to play some football out there. I know, and it should be – we're at that weird point now

because usually there's already been a preseason game played with the way that the schedule is now. It's down to three. Or at least it always feels like there's one earlier in August than it would usually be like right now instead of the 14th or whatever the day the Broncos are playing the Vikings at U.S. Bank Stadium next Saturday. But it's kind of that, I do honestly feel it this year, the need to hit somebody else. Like we're kind of at that point right now. I don't know if we didn't feel it at all last year because they had three-ish weeks of ramp-up period.

And they were in pads within two days of practice starting, at least when we were out there as a full squad. So it definitely feels like it. You have a lot more of the dog days of training camp this year than you did last year. And it's kind of a welcome thing, but it's also like these are the days where it drags. Monday, August 9th, out there at practice, 2 to 4 p.m. Hope I don't pass out because of the heat. Like, this is one of those days where it just feels like, okay, we are at the absolute peak of dog days of training camp. We also can't really see much movement from anyone until they play games. Yeah. I'm at the point now where people ask me about, what about this position battle? What about this one? It's like certain ones,

like Ole Udo to me is the starting right guard, right? Like Christian Derrissaw is not going to be playing week one at left tackle. It'll be Rashad Hill. Certain things like that you can project, but I will say like with other position battles, it's like we need to see them actually, like, put pads on for real. Like, I know it sounds kind of cliche, but put pads on and go do something in a preseason game to determine kind of what the potential 53 is. At least for me, with the cuts coming up on the 17th of that first round, like, to be able to be like, who's your lock for the 53? Who's a bubble? Who's a cut? Like, that comes after the first preseason game, which will be fun when next week at this time you and I are breaking down what happened again the Denver game right that's what we need to see with so many things like the wide receivers getting out there

we can only see so much in practice like we kind of know that KJ Osborne has emerged we know that Amir Smith Smith-Barsett is doing well in the offensive portion, but not so much the special teams portion, which Mike Zimmer just slammed the heck out of Amir Smith-Marset's poor special teams work. Yeah, I was not expecting that, considering how much special teams he played at Iowa. But, yeah, that was alarming.

But isn't that the great part of Zimmer and rookies in training camp? You haven't done anything, so I'm just just gonna out you in front of the entire world and if you decide you don't like it then then have a meltdown week two and get yourself cut the following day wait who did that Daniel Carlson yeah I was gonna say I mean also that was technically training camp pre-season time where he got uh got kind of called out by Zimmer on that Friday night game against Seattle. That's right. That's right. When he missed, what was it, an extra point or something? So then he went for two for two next time. Yeah. Zimmer versus the rookies in training camp. We've already called out almost everyone. I mean, he didn't slam Wyatt Davis, but sort of talked about how difficult it is to transition to the NFL,

which I thought was sort of a message of guys it is to transition to the NFL, which I thought was sort of a message of guys. This probably isn't happening this year with Wyatt Davis. I'm still holding out for the potential that Wyatt Davis takes some big leaps here in the next few weeks. But I had said, I think like I still have Wyatt Davis cause he's the most talented at right guard. Then the next day Zimmer says,

well, you see, it's really difficult for these rookie offensive linemen. Like, Oh no, I guess I'm wrong about that. So anyway, well, I have a game for you today because the last number of podcasts rightfully so, uh, have been, let's just say heavy. It's just been, it's been heavy conversation and I can't go this many days in a row talking about vaccines. So here is what I have for you. We've played this game before on the show called Talk Me Into. So I will ask you to talk me into a particular topic.

You will ask me and we'll go back and forth. Okay. I like this idea. And anyone who heard the last episode that we did with Eric Eager, I'm going to use the same last question, which I think is the best. And I hope you don't steal it before we get there. So let me start here though talk me into it being okay if Chad Beebe is the wide receiver three week one and not D.D. Westbrook because he still hasn't even practiced with the

offense talk me into that not being a problem here's my reasoning for it. It's A, because what we've seen from KJ Osborne in training camp so far has happened in very limited contact. He's playing against his own team. Let's see him actually translate that to a preseason game. I'd be okay with Chad Beebe as your wide receiver three on the condition that D.D. Westbrook is coming back sooner rather than later. And by soon, I mean first quarter of the season. Like they went out and signed him because he was the best slot available in free agency in spite of the fact that he had that ACL tear. So you

probably knew that it was going to take a little bit of time when you signed him and that you'd be okay getting by with Chad Beebe for the first three, maybe four games of the season. So as long as Chad Beebe can do this on a limited basis and you're using him on some third down packages, maybe you're not even using that much 11 personnel, right? Like they don't use a whole ton of it anyways. And honestly, they run more out of it than they pass. So you can get by. Get by is the key word there. I'm not going to sell you that he's going to be your permanent wide receiver three because that should be Westbrook when he comes back. But if all things go well in training camp, which means that you have a Beebe,

an Osborne, and a Smith-Marset to fill out your depth, and you're going to be relying on those last two I mentioned for special teams, and you're not making Chad Beebe field punts or potentially get himself injured, you'll be okay with him for maximum of four games as wide receiver three. Okay, I'm fairly convinced because we have seen the offense operate just fine with Chad Beebe as wide receiver three on the condition that Justin Jefferson is 100% and dominating, and Adam Justin Jefferson is 100 percent and dominating. And Adam Thielen is 100 percent and dominating.

And the other day of practice, neither one of them were on the field. And we got a little window into what the world looks like if those two players are not out there. Offense looks a lot different. Yeah. Spoiler. Like as in can't operate almost at all. And so this is always what the concern would be and that's where my one like i'm not totally talked into it by you is if jefferson isn't 100 for week one and you

have to lean on chad bb at all and i know that the team is coming out and saying he's good it's no big deal whatever and that's one of those believe it when i see it things because we just can't use the information they give us on player injuries no No matter how many times Mike Zimmer snarks about the tweak thing that happened. And so their history recently in telling us about injuries is just not very good. So if Justin Jefferson is not 100% all Justin Jefferson week one, and you don't have DD Westbrook and Chad BB has to take any extended role, I'm not talked into it. If he's playing like 11 snaps, okay, fine. He can get open enough and make a play.

That could be enough for wide receiver three. Like that should be enough for wide receiver three. But, you know, to your point on Jefferson, I was honestly kind of surprised when Zimmer said he should be back pretty soon. Now taking that at face value, pretty soon could mean a day. It could mean two weeks. I think if you're the Vikings, and yeah, it's difficult when you have a Justin Jefferson, like who Adam Thielen says, probably never mispracticed before and probably isn't doing well with being told he has to sit

out and heal from separating a shoulder the other day. But then again, why do you need to see him in training camp? You don't. Like, I don't want to see Justin Jefferson in any preseason games. If I'm the Vikings, I want to put him in bubble wrap or plexiglass and keep him safe for a couple weeks just until they get to the time where it's necessary to unleash the thoroughbred. So I was kind of making my Chad Beebe point on the premise that Jefferson and Thielen are good to go and at full health week one you know we don't really know what's going on with Adam Thielen right now he didn't practice on Saturday it looked like he kind of got dinged up on Friday towards the end of practice I felt like it was kind of like one of those practices that

everybody was probably begging to end because you know Cam Smith's dealing with a heat injury Justin Jefferson goes down Thielen looks like he got shaken up a little because Cam Smith's dealing with a heat injury. Justin Jefferson goes down. Thielen looks like he got shaken up a little bit. And it's like, we can't lose these guys right now. So maybe they're slow playing it. I think that's a smart thing to do. I would not rush Justin Jefferson back. But circling back to Chad Beebe, he goes as far as not even as far as.

But those two have to be at a certain level for him to have any chance to be effective as a wide receiver three. Okay, mildly convinced. What would you like me to talk you into? Talk me into DJ Wanham starting. I mean, I actually probably don't even need to be talked into this, but I'd like to hear your argument. DJ Wanham starting and Steven Weatherly either being cut or not having much of a role at all. Okay. And I'll just always say how I think first and what I think, and then I'll try to talk you into it anyway. I mean, I think that it's just going to be like a rotation for

those two. They're going to sort of mix and match with Weatherly and Wanham. That's my guess. But if I'm talking you into Wanham over Weatherly, it would be they're basically the same guy. And the younger guy has the potential with more plays and more snaps to get better as he goes along. Whereas Steven Weatherly just is what he is. So if they feel like anybody behind Steven Weatherly is pushing at all, or even if they feel like anybody behind Steven Weatherly is pushing at all, or even if they feel like there's somebody who was cut by another team, or there's somebody who's still hanging around on free agency at the last minute who they want to bring in. Steven Weatherly had zero sacks last year as a starter. And I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's different than he was when he was here before that would say, oh, my gosh, he's so much better.

Like Stephen Weatherly is what he is. And when he was here before, he was a valuable seventh round pick who you paid almost nothing and would pop in and out every once in a while and rush the passer situationally who would move over the guard and so forth you might not really need that this year because you have sheldon richardson is going to be your pass rush specialist maybe weatherly mixes in there but if i'm choosing between two guys that are very close it would have to be dj wanham as the guy who plays more and i just would like to see more of him and then if you're talking about who's behind if anybody were to push step Weatherly from behind him then I'm choosing those younger players over Steven Weatherly because you already know what you have that's the best I can do there I think that Andre Patterson just loves Steven Weatherly though yeah no I do think he is loyal

to that fact where he's you know brought back guys before who he liked when he initially had them and now he's got him again and he feels like he can coach out the bad things the technique that maybe needs refining bad habits potentially that he picked up when he was in his you know stint in Carolina but I um I guess I'm I am talked into that but I also tend to feel like and maybe I'm crazier I feel like DJ Wanham could be the starter over a Stephen Weatherly. And yeah, a rotation, of course. They always rotate potentially on third down, other obvious passing situations, different packages, what have you.

I think DJ Wanham could very well, because of what we've seen his role become, especially on Saturday. And I know it was one play, but you're watching what happens when he drops into coverage. It's not just this gimmick thing that it's a training camp only look that we're seeing. It's something that you could potentially see utilized at some point this season, more than at some point regularly this season. I think he gives you more than what Steven Weatherly does in that pass coverage, outside linebacker-ish, still edge rusher position. So I think that he honestly brings

more to the table. That's why I'd argue that he could start over Weatherly. But a rotation, I can be talked into a rotation between those two. Janarius Robinson and Patrick Jones have not really done enough for me in training camps so far. And I get it. Like, I mean, Mike Zimmer talked about the traits that he likes from them, the athleticism, but that a lot is being thrown at them yet. So I don't know. They're not certainly polished yet. I think they're still kind of swimming, is that the word we use when we talk about rookies having to consume a lot of a playbook and not fully being up to speed yet. But they haven't done anything to suggest that they would be pushing either of them

in that competition. So to me, it comes down to Wanham and it comes down to Weatherly. And I give Wanham the edge. Just to statistically back this a little bit, last year, Weatherly was 109th in pass rush win rate by PFF. DJ Wanham was 101st and uh jalen holmes was not far from stephen weatherly like jalen holmes who is now playing inside now playing inside right so dj wanham was already better last year as a rookie with no support for the rest of the defensive line than weatherly was last year and whether

he started for a while yeah he's carolina before i got hurt and had zero sacks and had a 54 pff pass rush grade which is just not good at all so um like think about this he had a seven percent win rate uh and the top guys in the nfl are like well, hold on. I mean, just like 20%. I mean, yeah. TJ watt was 23% and Steven Weatherly was seven and is like 107th out of 123 or something. I mean like one of the legitimately worst pass rushers in the league last year. So if that's what they see in these preseason games and they see one of them making progress maybe there's only a case to keep him as a backup that's why it kind of relies on everybody else uh all right I'm gonna go back to you um talk me into this kicking situation being fine oh it's a hard one oh man well this is the challenge this is why it's a challenge greg joseph um he last kicked in a game

in 2019 riley patterson has never kicked in an nfl game because he's a rookie so experience experience gonna beat out there even though they both are inexperienced. Riley Patterson just came off the pup list. Maybe he has quite a bit of work to do to catch up. Although on Saturday, they both were two for two on field goals inside US Bank Stadium. So I mean, it was kind of good that they got like the early look at both of them being like, all right, well, nobody had a meltdown inside the stadium for the first time when they were kicking. I had the stats here from Saturday's practice. Patterson was 36 and 49 yards, and Greg Joseph was 35 and 47. So I don't know if Patterson was trying to one-up him, be like, I'll get that extra one or two yards.

I don't know. It is a competition. It is a competition. Move me back. Move me back. I think that you know Greg Joseph I mean he's he's been with a couple teams um you know they clearly saw something in him to bring him in and the fact is they haven't signed a veteran yet they've had roster spots to do it and and I think they're waiting for a meltdown to happen or you know it's usually

around this time in training camp where the kicking competition starts in earnest whether they bring a veteran in or they bring a kicking punter specialist looking like a greek god in and that ends up not panning out r.i.p kari vedvik um but i uh it's a hard one i'm just gonna base it on the fact that they haven't brought anybody else in and they're willing to not jump the gun here if it's not perfect in preseason games. Okay, that was a try. That was certainly a try.

I mean, I've always been the proponent. I guess I didn't do the whole tell you what I think they should do at first yeah I think they should have brought in a kicker by now I think that you should look at the free agent market I mean honestly like why not even go bring Dan Bailey back just for camp just for camp to see what's going on like Bailey I think was banged up last he was he had a back injury did he not like I mean he played through something last year so maybe maybe bring him back to see where his body's at I I don't like this kicking situation like as much as I'm trying to talk you into it I think it's this seems like the perfect storm where your defense looks good right now we'll see how they look in preseason games if the offense can

you know can hold its, it feels like a year where the kicking game will be your Achilles heel and bring down, bring you down. So I, I think you should have three kickers in camp right now. I think you should have a veteran with multiple years experience whose last game played was not two years ago. And you should judge it off that. I bet we'll see movement. If, if Greg Joseph has like a so-so outing against Denver I bet that they sign somebody next week want to remind you to go to sodastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports inspired goods if you have not seen it yet you've got to check it out couple of my favorite designs are the duck duck gray duck and the Randy Moss goat which you've got to see

all their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. We're going to hook you up with free shipping on your next order. By the way, use promo code purple insider for free shipping. That's SodaStick, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code purple insider for free shipping.

So here was maybe your best argument that could have gotten me a little closer to being talked into it. Closer than, hey, they made their practice kicks at US Bank Stadium. The Vikings last year made 68.2% of their field goals. Dead last in the league. The best argument for this being okay is that it can't be worse than that.'re already dead last it can't be worse it's true that's the best you could do uh okay now back to you i would like you to talk me into cam dansler and bashad Breeland rotating that role outside.

Okay. Okay. Because right now. Right now it's Breeland with the ones. Dancer's had a couple reps here and there. Remember Breeland came along a little slowly with a shoulder injury. Do you think it's a wrap? Or do you think that.

Can you talk me into. Dantzler having more of a role than just being somebody who's in like a nickel. Okay. Potentially nickel packages. I do think it's set based on Zimmer's comments about special teams, but I'll try to talk you into it anyway. Bashad Breeland is one of the most penalized cornerbacks in the NFL over the last like five years.

And what we've seen in camp is exactly why. He is extremely aggressive with the wide receivers, which is good, but it's also not good because nearly injured Justin Jefferson the other day right I mean just slamming guys on the ground trying to punch the ball out yeah again I mean you have to respect it but also you're getting penalized quite a bit I was going to look up where he was um was it was it uh last year I think he had maybe 13 penalties last year something like that god it was like xavier rhodes 2000 circa 2018 2019 okay so peterson had 12 last year and

breland had eight but i believe there was one year where breland had even more than that and he's and that was eighth in the entire league yeah so peterson was first breland was eighth in the whole league that's not great that means you're committing a lot of penalties. And this has been a thing. Yeah, this has been a thing for Breland. He had overall not a great year tackling last year in terms of grades. That will drive Mike Zimmer a little crazy. And if Cameron Dantzler can show something in these preseason games, it's possible that he could be taking steps forward where Breland is kind of staying the same or even regressing based on his age as he approaches 30.

With corners, they usually come out 21, 22 years old, have five, six years where they're really good. It sort of reminds me of shortstops in baseball where after five or six years in the league. Yes, leticism wears off. Right. You're just not as good. And he was never a freak athlete anyway. Breland, he's more like a 4'5 guy. So if he's getting more grabby

and if he's struggling with the tackling part, like he did a bit with Casey last year, then Dantzler better be ready. And with Dantzler, there was reasons to like what you saw last year of like 50% of the time, 50% of the time was good. Some of it was really good. In the later portion of the season too. Right. And 50% was hurt or 50% was maybe you didn't really play that coverage as tight as you needed to and got called out by your head coach. But usually rookie corners struggle. And so far in camp, I think Dantzler has been fine.

He hasn't like jumped way out to me. But if he does during these preseason games and these joint practices then there might be some consideration to you can prove to Zimmer you should at least be in the ball game and for the long term of this team which I know they don't care about right now for the long term it's better to see more of Cam Dantzler throughout the season or see him at least push Breland so I don't think that Breeland is dead set, completely locked in for life to that spot. You convinced? Sort of. I feel like, I mean, I agree with you.

I think that Bashad Breeland did not sign here to not play. Like, he's starting week one, and it's Breeland and Peterson who have really gotten all the ones reps. But I feel like you spent a third-round pick on Dantz you're not ready to obviously give up give up on him by any stretch I mean he came around at the end of last season he was you know one of the highest rated rookie corners once we actually saw the body of work get put together in 2020 he's got a lot of growth to do I do wonder like if a year focused more with the special team stuff and then situationally like when they're in nickel I don't know maybe if they use some dime this is not a

this is not a defense that uses like six defensive backs all that much but hey they did say they were making tweaks to this game maybe they do something like that this year I want to see him on the field with more of the veteran cornerbacks to see kind of like, okay, when the communication is this, he's up to speed. He's got somebody who's played this longer who sees something that he doesn't see that can help him see it when it's like live action and then he can apply that. Like I would like to see things like that happen to where you can truly tell a year from now, okay, this guy is going to pan out to be something.

Like it was a good pick. Right now, all we have to go off of is the basis of what it was last year and being like, well, it wasn't the worst thing in the world. It was obviously better than Jeff Gladney's first year. And I think no rookie corner did great last year. Let's be honest. None of them were super amazing because of the nature of the position learning it over zoom what have you but I um I could be talked into some of that I think that the penalties with Breland and just the way that he plays guys

we're seeing it in camp right now um there's been some days where I'm like yikes like I don't know if he's trying to prove a point I don't know what he's trying to do I don't know if coaches are going to be like let's like pump the brakes here a little bit like I think seeing him in the preseason game will tell me like is he playing too aggressively are they going to try to like pull him back from that a little bit because they know that referees are going to be watching just you know how he covers guys and they're going to not be afraid to throw the flag so um but yeah I can, I could see myself with some of that. Okay. What would you like me to talk you into?

I'm going to ramp this up. Okay. Okay. And then you got to step your game up after this one, because this is a bombshell for you. Talk me into trading Kirk cousins to Denver for Teddy Bridgewater this week. While Denver's in town. Holy cow.

Um, well, for starters, um, they have an issue here with COVID. Clearly, a lot of the locker room, as it stands right now, is not vaccinated. Kirk is not the only one, but he's the one getting the fall for a lot of it because he's the most visible player in terms of position importance and somebody who's out there and been very vocal about the private decision, what have you.

So I think the Vikings could look at this and be like, he's already got a massive cap hit next year. It's $45 million. If they're willing to take on some of the financial responsibility for what's left of Cousins. Or restructure. I mean. Or extend. They would have to extend Cousins. Or restructure. I mean... Or extend.

They would have to extend Cousins if they should. Denver would. Denver would. Yeah, and it's just like, he's somebody who likes short-term deals. So that's probably, honestly, that's probably something that could feed into, you know, Cousins agreeing to it.

I mean, granted, there is not a no trade clause anymore. Like, remember, that's gone in this contract. So they can do it without his approval. You know, there is, you know, he would be on, I'm looking at the cap right now. He would, you know, he's got 21 guaranteed this year. He's making 31. So, you know, there'd be some money, I believe, with the trade that you'd have to take on this year. But I think it'd be worth it if you're ready to, if you just don't think this is going to work out anymore. A, if you're that concerned that the vaccine stuff

and that he could wind up back again on the COVID list and you don't want to roll the dice with that, that would be the number one reason, I think. And also, you know, Zimmer knows Teddy. Teddy is kind of the safety valve. And when you have the defense at the level that Zimmer believes it's going to be, closer to when Bridgewater played here and then closer to what it looked like

when they were really good and they didn't have to be as aggressive offensively. I know he said that he liked how explosive they were, but 11th in points, 4th in yards. If that's enough for you, Mike Zimmer, if you don't think they need to up the ante there, then you go and say, okay, well, we can get it done with Teddy Bridgewater because we know he'll play conservatively on offense. We still have all these questions on the offensive line. We know that we're more comfortable putting a Teddy behind there because of some of the athleticism, some of the stuff that he does that Kirk doesn't do,

that it would work out that way. Now, this is obviously a tough sell because of the finances that are tied to this, because Denver, you know, the Vikings are on the hook next year with the $45 million cap hit. So if you're Denver, you're looking at your own finances saying, OK, immediately we get him in here, we sign him to a three-year extension, and, you know, you say goodbye to the prospect of potentially getting Aaron Rodgers next year, right? Because wasn't Denver one of the first teams that was rumored to want him so badly? And if it's anybody's game next year, if he's let out of his contract effectively in Green Bay, you have to think about your long-term plans.

If you're George Payton being like, man, I just got here, and I'm cementing myself to Kirk Cousins, you've got to really think that what you have around him will be okay in effectively doing this in the short term um how did I do I am talked into this deal here's why the talent difference between Kirk Cousins and Teddy Bridgewater there is one but how much value does it have to have your head coach with any relationship whatsoever with your quarterback yeah yeah I mean theirs is clearly I know that they both said they had a good conversation last week after Kirk came off the reserve list it feels fractured it is fractured

if your court if your head coach is calling out the quarterback room for putting the team in a really tough spot with their COVID-19 reserve list and putting you down to one quarterback for a couple days, that to me is already a big mark on you for what you stand. If you're not going to get vaccinated, you're going to put this team at risk. Every week you're going to be rolling the dice. Right. And that's part of why I would be talked into it and the other part would be that Teddy Bridgewater plays football exactly the way Mike Zimmer wants yeah exactly and so he can rely on his defense the way that I lay it out where it's like they take you know they this would be a perfect team for Teddy because of what they've done defensively and what you're going to ask your defense to do. Also, do we know, is Teddy Bridgewater vaccinated?

I would assume so. I mean, it's Teddy, right? Come on. I think Zim could just talk. If he's not, Zim could talk him into it. I would be really stunned if he wasn't. Just with the way Teddy is. I think that he is.

So let me give you a crazy stat. Last year, Carolina produced points on a higher percentage of their drives than the Vikings. And this is like a classic Teddy thing where a lot of red zone, there were a lot of red zone struggles with Carolina last year. And Teddy kind of called out Joe Brady for that a little bit. Yeah, he did. Because they don't practice red zone apparently on Thursdays or Fridays.

But they had a lot of drives and in points last year. And they were able to move the ball effectively and just had a really bad really really bad defense Carolina did but Teddy has looked like at least he is a sort of case Keenum ish type of quarterback that he's going to be so if you ran the ball gave him great wide receivers an offensive scheme that makes the the quarterback better we saw jake browning throwing to open crossing routes the other day like what's your difference in wins if teddy plays 17 games or if kirk plays 14 games because he spends three on the covet list like there that's the other thing too is it's easy to move on from teddy uh if you just have like a seven and ten season and if you just have like a 7-10 season. And if you have a 10-7 season with Kirk,

it's harder to move on from him because you have to try to find a trade partner. Or if you have a bad season with him where he won't get vaccinated, it's harder to find a trade partner, especially if he has another poor season or something, right? Or if he has his first straight-up poor season since 2017, it makes it even harder so like this is under the

realm of yeah i mean it'd be totally stunning if something like this happened but can you be talked into it especially since the head coach is just not getting along with the quarterback sure the only way you cannot talk me into it being at least plausible or why not plausible but like reasonable is if you believe Kirk has a legitimate chance to win the Super Bowl and I'm not sure that there's a great case for that but we'll see maybe later in the game uh you give me you give me one more and then I may have just tipped my hand to the last question for you talk me into Christian Derrissaw starting at left tackle week one. Oh, okay. Okay. Look, Rashad Hill. Rashad.

Rashad. Come on, Rashad. Number 69. What can we say about Rashad? He's number 69. He is one of the nicest people that I've ever covered in my entire career. He is the one guy who seems to not realize he's an NFL player. Like with the way he acts when you talk with him or when you're around him, he is universally loved and appreciated by, I mean, top to bottom in the organization. Like who is the most likable person?

Like top five Rashad Hill is there, right? In this whole organization. Sure. However, we're talking about a backup tackle, a swing tackle, and it's a great career. Our buddy Jeremiah Sear's a great career. Our buddy, Jeremiah Searles had that career. He is not a franchise left tackle. His talent level is not of what Christian Derrissaw's is. And if Derrissaw can get back into the 11 on 11s within this week and practice against the Broncos and quickly show that he is a physical specimen, which I believe him to be and go into these preseason games and shut down whoever he's going up against game after game in all three of

these preseason games at a hundred percent come out of it a hundred percent, then, then you just start them and you say, look, I know that you got off to a rusty start, but last year they did this with Justin Jefferson, where it was like oh you know he's a little behind and doesn't know the playbook yeah but he wasn't injured no he was not dealing with a surgery and he didn't really you know have the conditioning issues too the rookie from behind thing well he did miss a couple of days with the COVID list I think for Jefferson so different than what Christian Darius I was dealing with for sure for. And I see you're not entirely talked into this, but I'm trying because I'm not talked into this either.

We were like talking ourselves like off of a ledge right now. But I'm trying because this is, if he doesn't practice this week, then I can't talk you into it. I need him to be practicing this week. But the talent levels are so different. As hard as Rashad Hill works, it's like I could work my entire life trying to dunk, but I talent levels are so different. As hard as Rashad Hill works, it's like I could

work my entire life trying to dunk, but I won't be Vince Carter because I just don't have the talent. And Rashad Hill works crazy hard, but he's not Christian Derrissaw in terms of talent. And that's what they usually go with. If they're saying we're going to go with the best five, then he has to be more talented than Rashad Hill. That's the best argument I can make for you. I appreciate the effort. And I know that you don't agree with a single thing you said, except for the fact that Rashad is a very quality backup. Like, and I don't think he's going to start. I agree with all the other things. Like, and I mean, if we're talking today, Monday, August 9th, Rashad is your left tackle for at least like the first two games, maybe the

first quarter of the season. But I have a hard time believing that Christian Derrissaw is going to be anywhere near ready. Like he hasn't even taken live reps yet, let alone, I mean, who cares what team he's playing with, which unit? I mean, it's the second team right now, but the guy's not even really doing anything in the pads that he's wearing. So I think it's going to be a very steep uphill climb for him to even get his way back into the mix. I mean, he's got to play first, right? And he's growing things. If what Mike Zimmer's saying, one step forward, two steps back,

it sounds like you can retweak it. If you move the wrong way and if you're in practice and you're sore and something happens, then it could set you back even further. So I'm not confident at all that this could even be a scenario. But I do appreciate the effort. OK, so I want you to ask me one more so I can ask you the final one, which is you're trying to make my head explode here. I can tell. So give give me a silly one and then uh we can end on the most important talk me into talk me into the vikings keeping four tight ends between herb smith tyler conklin

zach davidson and brandon dylan or shane zillstra or shane zillstra zillstra's done more than dylan where has brandon dylan been where has zach david my Mr. Mankato pick been? I know. He's got preseason games to go. He had a couple good catches in camp. Like, I mean, I've noticed him. He hasn't done a lot. Four tight ends. Okay.

Okay. So their receiver group is just not really impressive. You were trying to talk me into Chad Beebe as bb is i was i was i was coerced by the game to do i was trying to talk you into that oh yeah that's right you were trying to talk me into it and you were co-host by the game uh i i would just say that you have two tight ends that you're going to use a lot yeah you are so reliant on them that if one of them gets hurt tyler conklin got banged up for a day and all of a sudden brandon dylan's playing a lot and if one of them gets hurt, Tyler Conklin got banged up for a day and all of a sudden Brandon Dillon's playing a lot. And if two of them get banged up in a situation where

you have a very physical position, you're going over the middle a lot. You're blocking a lot in this offense, even as tight end number two, we saw last year when Irv Smith got hurt, that Tyler Conklin stepped in and the same when Kyle Rudolph got hurt and Conklin is very capable but who's that guy this year Brandon Dillon is not of the level of Conklin or Smith I think you have to have at least players who know what they're doing to be able to step into that role so you're not signing a Cole Hickatini off or a Blake, Blake, Brett, Brett. What was the name? Brett, Blake, Brett. And come on, Blake Bell. He was the one from San Francisco. So was Cole Hickatini. They both were. Yeah. So like, you're not signing a Blake Bell off of the street and bringing him in

and being like, okay, now you actually have to do stuff as a free agent off the street tight end. So maybe better even if Shane Zylstra or Zach Davidson is not actually ready to play right now that they're an option as tight end number four. But I feel like of all the in the weeds-y things you could have asked, talk me into four tight ends is the most. How did I do?

I can see it. I would buy the argument i think that the depth factor there if you go confident and i mean this is just like as i like tweak my 53 uh that i've had like for the last couple weeks and thinking because i initially going into camp i thought they were going to go heavy at tight end lighter at receiver I do think that after seeing what some of the receivers are capable of with the special teams element thrown in, that would lead me to go five or potentially six. I'm not going seven receivers this year. I just don't see it. I think you go, because the offense isn't predicated on that. You don't use them unless you're using them for special teams. And I think

you could probably get some of that from your tight end group. So I would buy that from the depth perspective, and they do use them from time to time. I anticipate Smith being in Conklin. There are going to be a lot of two tight end sets, so it never hurts to have another one or two. Hey, everyone. Summer is here, and you're trying to get out on the golf course.

But if you're like us here at Purple Insider, spending all day golfing isn't always an option. That's why you need to check out Birdie Golf in Woodbury. I'll give you an example. My wife is new to golf, and she's intimidated by the big courses. But at Birdie Golf, she can come and play without the pressure. You can make golf a family experience at birdie golf, bring the kids still get all of your swings in.

They have eight of the world's best golf simulators where you can sharpen your swing and still have a great time. I've heard from several listeners to the show who have tried out birdie golf and absolutely loved it. You'll want to try the whiskey or beer float flights. And every time Sam and I show up at birdie golf to record our podcast, we always get the boneless swings, make golf a night out. It's the perfect place to hold parties, events,

fundraisers, and even your fantasy football draft. Check out birdie golf at four 94 and Valley Creek in Woodbury. Just a short drive away from anywhere in the twin cities, Metro at birdie golf.com B I R D I golf.com. Call six five one nine nine eight two two zero zero today. And I R D I golf.com call six, five, one nine, nine, eight, two,

two, zero, zero today. And I'll see you there. There you go. So you are officially talked into that one. Now you have to talk me into the Minnesota Vikings playing in the Superbowl. Oh gosh.

Um, all right. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, they spent oodles of money on this defense. And if Mike Zimmer, and I've seen several, I've honestly kind of been surprised. The Athletic the other day came out with an article ranking defenses 1-32, and they put the Vikings at number one in the Sheilcapadia. So, I mean, he's a very good writer. I respect his work. And so I read it, and I kind of actually was trying to talk myself into believing that they

would be number one, the number one defense in the NFL. So after getting through that, And it made me think, okay, if they could be even like 50%, 60% better than what they were last year, like just from the standpoint of injuries, from the standpoint of talent, I think that the personnel that they have, the scheme changes that we anticipate, or at least we've seen so far, of adapting to what offenses are going to do based on the changes that we expect every single year, and that you have veterans who are capable, more than just capable, like veterans who actually know what they're doing. I think that you'll be in a good spot defensively. Now, the rest of the NFC is what I think I can sell you on. The

Saints are not going to be as good this year. In your division, all you're worried about is the Packers. You're not buying the fact that the Bears are going to be anything that you have to contend with. You're only worried about Green Bay. And you also see Green Bay as a potential issue because, yeah, it's been quiet the last couple weeks, but you think you can win the division because of the fact is, yeah, they have Rodgers back, but did they really upgrade all that much around him? I don't know. Probably not, at least in the sense of this argument.

So you're thinking, hey, I can win the division. We have a capable offense, an amazing defense, and Greg Joseph is the kicker of the future because we didn't need the sign of veteran we didn't need to bring one in because he was so damn good in these preseason games that riley patterson didn't even need to come off the pup list to begin with so it's just kind of like it's perfect it's a perfect storm special teams are not awful here anymore the offense is good enough and defense is going to win you championships and games. So as you go through the rest of the NFC, you're not worried about Dallas because

they're a facade every single year and they're on hard knocks. So they've already cursed themselves. You're not really worried about anybody else in the NFC East. You're not really worried about anybody else in your, you know, in the NFC South. I Tampa Bay sure but nobody else not Carolina not the Falcons not the Saints I'm worried about the NFC West I'm worried about the Rams I think that they are going to be really really good this year and I'm also worried about Seattle and Arizona and San Francisco so if I think that I can be a top five maybe top six team but definitely top five team in the NFC I think that I have a chance to get to the NFC championship and let's say that you know lightning doesn't hasn't struck twice with teams being able to repeat in Super Bowl

in a long time so I'm not I'm taking Tampa Bay out of the mix so let's say it's like me and the Rams or something in the NFC championship game this year, me as the Vikings. Mike Zimmer has, you know, beaten Sean McVay before, you know, old school guy, new school guru. And the last time that these two teams faced off was 2018, Kirk Cousins' revenge game. He's going to have Christian Derrissaw at his left tackle and Christian Derrissaw will be able to hold his block against Michael Brockers and won't worry about Kirk fumbling on that final drive you ever heard of like uh protesting too much like you're starting to reach the point where you're like and the left tackle will be fine I'm trying to sell you on everything coming together perfectly and then they'll beat the Rams and they'll go to Super Bowl.

I'll just stop you there because you've gone a long way to try to do this. And the effort is what counts on the show. And I think you've done a good job. Thank you. Because at the crux of the thing is there's only like two great teams in the NFC. And if either one of them falters, you could be in the NFC championship if you have a great year. And the one thing I would tack on to the argument, if it's being made, is just you would have to say you have several weeks to get this bleep together between the head coach and the quarterback. way to bond everyone together. Mike Zimmer's first impression of this team when he walked out on the practice field for the first day was this team is very good. And since then, everything has been, you know, hitting the fan. Yeah. But if you can find a way to rally around

this, you have a chance to be a very good team. I think that that's very good. Going to win you a Super Bowl. I didn't even try to like find out who they were or come up with a scenario of who they're going to play from the AFC. I didn't even say I think I said reach reach the Super Bowl and then, you know, whatever that would be fun enough. So you did a great job. Thank you. And you put in 110 percent into that.

I didn't sell you, though. I didn't sell myself. I was struggling there at the very end. I will have to be sold throughout the season is what I would say. So there's a chance that we could come back to this and that I could sell you again. Yes. Well, look, there was another time in 2017 where I remember us having like a similar conversation about after they had beaten the Rams, like, are we sold on this team yet?

And I think you were a little skeptical. I was more sold on where they were but it's it's a conversation that they have to force you to have and so having it right now does sound a little like wow we're so far away from that but i think that you made the right points which is just look at the nfc even even though everything feels bad right now just look at the nfc and um i think that's the right point to make so you did a great job in this game thank you and i think it's a fun game we should play this more often i know talk me into stuff we could just do like mini versions of talk me into um from time to time so i hope you enjoyed that we got to go out to practice but um i was glad to lighten it up a

little bit here after i felt like things were getting a little heavy a little tense yep so thank you courtney for your time we will do it again soon