Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks Vikings and Bears' drafts and who will own the NFC North in the future

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

ESPN's Courtney Cronin talks about a strange incident with a Chicago Bears scout right after the draft and then breaks down which of the NFC North teams made the best case in the draft. What did she think of the Vikings' path? Did Detroit come out better than both the Bears and Vikings? What was the most surprising thing about the draft? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Courtney Cronin, who now hangs up the Courtney R. Draft Scout jersey and heads back to just being Bears reporter and ESPN radio host. What is up, Courtney? Not much. Eventful weekend covering the draft. It usually takes one or two days to recover, so we're kind of in the coming up for air phase right now, as I know that you are as well, with a lot of draft picks, which neither of our teams can, you know, did it, made it easy this year with all the trades and Quacey trying to become Rick Spielman part two with all

the draft day trades I believe that I read that that was actually a record the amount that he made on um throughout the draft like tied a record which is crazy yeah uh the I lost track of all of them honestly I mean we know all the draft picks but in terms of did you win this trade did you win that trade and we've been trying to parse through the analytics and everything else of uh what everyone thinks that they got in exchange but eventually they end up with a very spielman ask 10 players um but you know you uh decided to be at the center of controversy as you so often are in Chicago because it wasn't a Bears draft pick that drew the most attention to Chicago's draft. Instead, it was what a dopey scout decided to say to your media. Yeah, it was an unfortunate comment. I feel like this is kind

of like one of those eye-opening moments for everybody in the NFL, media members that write about draft prospects. I'm just like the language we use. These are not commodities. These are human beings. And I think that at the end of the day, people make mistakes. I make mistakes. You make mistakes.

Clearly, the scout who said this made a mistake. But's just like i think the thing that we realize now is okay if this stuff is being uttered in in public and i'm sure that this scout wants to have those comments back or that moment back saying it to a room of 20 something reporters not off the record um you gotta wonder like how what's being talked about behind the scenes when it comes to these players and you know the n NFL has had to in scouting departments have had to change their language, things to determine what would be classified for players tendencies. I'm trying not to use the word soft without using the word soft, but there's adjectives that are no longer allowed to be used in reports that would seem to be a synonym for that word, if you know what I'm getting at here.

And I think that there I mean, that was years ago when the when the NFL like audited a lot of these reports to like stick what the heck's actually going on in front offices with the evaluation process. And it was certainly an eye opening thing to hear that uttered in public, but I do. And kind of like what you guys got in Minnesota, I really appreciated the efforts of Ryan poles and of Kweisi Adolfo Mensah this weekend. Let us talk to the scouts. Let us talk to it. Not just like, you know, the college scouting directors, like you're, you know, you wouldn't really talk to a pro guy now, but like talking to the area scouts, talking to the people who are on the road 200 days a year,

writing 300 to 400 players and may only get one, one player taken in an entire draft class. Like giving those people their shine and their moment to talk about why these prospects are, are, were chosen, like why they were so high on them. I thought was a really cool thing. Cause I know that we never had that in Minnesota when I was there. Obviously we talked to Jamal Stevenson, who's now a co DPP was director of college scouting when, you know, we talked to him during the draft and that was wonderful. But to hear from like the area scouts, to hear from the people who were like in the trenches during the year is so beneficial. And I really hope that this one instance that happened in Chicago won't prevent that from

happening again. Yeah, it was great for us as well to have insight from more people than just the GM to answer specific questions about players' skill sets and how they can project them and some of the factors that go into evaluating different things, like when a player didn't have as much production in college and what skill set they saw from them that made them really like that player stuff like that why they're a project why they see a higher ceiling all those things that we could take and write about however you've got to know better if you are this scout in chicago who by the way lost his job today i don't know

how connected it was to the comment because a lot of times this happens year to year and i and i was told like just in kind of you know hearing about it over the weekend and that um he was relieved of his duties like i tend to think that that was probably already you never get fired for one thing um that was probably already in the mix because ryan poles has already made considerable changes to his scouting department mark stavowski who's the college director, was let go yesterday on Monday. So they're going to have a new college structure here. Ryan Poles is a college guy, so I'm not surprised about that. He elevated the pro director, Jeff King, to co-director of player personnel. Trey Kozoyle, who came with him from Kansas City, is also the co-director player personnel so

like there's there's a lot of changes that were expected to be made and honestly the scouting department has been in Chicago was on notice ever since like last year's draft when we knew the writing was on the wall for Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy those scouts did too and scouts typically like you know anybody but like you know GMm assistant gm even co-dpps whatever the structure is like most scouts sign two-year contracts even directors sometimes sign a two-year contract so that's the cycle you work on which is why the monday after the draft is over you typically see the start of so much movement in may is a really busy month in scouting because there are a lot of people who end up changing jobs, going to different teams because when new, when new people come in,

they want to bring in their people. And it's tough to see because a lot of good people lose their jobs or end up like getting, you know, moved around. Um, but it's the nature of the business and it's a beast at times. It'll be interesting to see if the Vikings do any of this because I would have expected the answer is yes. We haven't heard anything yet, but that was a pretty consistent question through draft season from fans. How much is it being influenced by Rick Spielman's scouts? But I also think that the Wilfs didn't ever indicate that they wanted a full front office changeover. It seemed more like they just wanted a better use of the people they had.

So this could be two differences between the Bears and the Vikings. By the way, I should mention what the comment was, because I don't think it's so offensive. We can't say it. So the scout there for the Bears said that the player that they drafted was a PhD player, which was poor, hungry, and desperate, which is an absurd thing to say about somebody in public, honestly. Like, I get what the guy's trying to say, but some of the scouting language, when said out loud to the universe, sounds really inappropriate.

Also, I mean, like, there are so many different ways you could say that that don't sound like you're talking about, like, I don't know, non-humans, like you said, I mean, somebody who has a lot of drive or has come from a difficult background and really wants it. Like, there's lots of ways to say that without calling the guy poor, hungry, and desperate. I mean, that's just so dehumanizing to the person. And part of me, when I think about it, it's just like, you don't want to give a pass to bad behavior, right? And obviously something like this

needs to be put on the shelf and not used again. Evolving is a really big thing. It happens in football. It happens in trends. It happens in scheme. It also needs to happen in terms of language because representation and language are two very big things.

And I didn't think I was going to get on my soapbox about this today on the pod. So I apologize about that. But like we've given a pass to a lot of this stuff for a really long time. And here's the thing. When I heard that term, I had a VP in a front office text me saying, what the hell did that scout just say? I had an area scout from a different, from an NFC team reach out to me, not right away, but being like, oh my gosh, I have never heard that term before. I texted a few scouts that I know and trust and have said, have you ever heard this term before? Because I've heard, you know, and you and I joke about glass eater and oily hips and, you know, those

things aren't offensive. Those things are just football speak that we find hilarious because there are a lot of funny things that like, like football on a stick, because you don't want to bend over and snap the ball manually. Like, okay. Um, I, I, we know that there's other terms that have been used behind closed doors for years and have been phased out, but that's like the old guard. This is a type of term that I know, like, I'm not trying to be like an apologist here. I'm sure that scout didn't mean it in a racially charged or dehumanizing way sorry like that's that's just like not okay and i think the thing that you have to realize here is these guys are more than their 40 time they're more than just measurables they're more than just you know commodities for your team and yeah there's millions and millions of dollars being invested in players during the draft i get that but i just feel like for somebody who joquan Brisker is the safety that was in reference here for somebody who went the junior college route to Penn State

to become a like this incredibly cerebral and physical player who's all over the field for them like Mel Kiper called him a defensive coordinator on the field that's like what his coaches at Penn State were referencing him as. That's clearly a very high compliment. But he's also got this edge to him that he came up through some shit growing up. He's dealt with stuff. So I get the overcoming adversity part. Instead of saying that, the scout tried to give us a little bit of context

of how they view somebody like that, but it just didn't come out right. instead of saying that the scout tried to like give us a little bit of context of like what they how they view somebody like that but it just didn't come out right and I you know I find it hard to believe again just from what I've heard and who I've talked to that one thing did somebody in but I just think it's a good lesson and look like it's frustrating for me having been the like one of only two people on my beat to recognize something like that. That's a, that's a little weird to me. But I don't, I don't know. I, I hope that that wasn't the only, that certainly in my mind was not the only storyline with this draft because Ryan Poles flipped three picks on day three into eight,

which was an incredible maneuver for a team that entered this weekend draft weekend with 64 players under contract to get to 90, you have to do a lot of work. And I feel like he did an excellent job, not just with, you know, you always like talk about quantity versus quality. They needed quantity like straight up. And that's what, that's what teams do in the seventh round, because anybody who's a seventh round pick it's probably if they're not

taking the seventh round, it's probably if they're not taking the seventh round it's a it's a luck of the draw here they're they're priority free agents or they're college tryout guys or they're or they're just like in the udfa class so i think that that's the bigger story here i hope it's not overshadowed because i think ryan poles did a i know there's going to be the argument i've seen the articles that you know know, they did Justin, Justin Fields a disservice this weekend. They're not one drafted player away from being good. Let's, let's call it what it is. Like they have a long way to go and addressing the defensive needs that they had and staying true to their board. Not every, not every new situation can, can afford to do that. Some situations are

forced into hey make make win now moves make moves that are going to get us better quicker even if they don't pan out and ryan poles did not do that well just one last comment on the scout there the thing that is uh irritating to me about language like that is like you said if this guy is considered a defensive coordinator on the field stop making him sound like a caged animal my friend you know what i mean like don't paint somebody like that when intelligence is such a huge part of this game uh and then that's how you make the guy sound it's just like so you know what i mean like some wild desperate animal who's just going to go out and play like a crazy person or something this is such a terrible and gross description so anyway while

you uh reference the draft, and I guess here's my question for you is who had the more rebuild the draft? Was it the Detroit Lions, the Vikings or the bears? And we have to throw the Vikings into this because Casey called it a competitive rebuild and the lions and the bears are clearly trying to rebuild. So who did it best? Well, I think the lions obviously for me got the best grade in the division. And I know that I'm not alone in thinking that like they made, they made, I think it's eight picks total. And six of those were made on the defensive side of the ball. And I think that all, you know, the ones that they got, obviously Aiden Hutchinson being there at number two they had to go that and that was a smart play but to trade back into the first round to get Jamison Williams to give

you know that offense another layer I don't know if their quarterback future holds for Detroit and I and I was a little disappointed to see them I thought that was going to be Malik Willis and clearly I mean wow we were wrong wow everybody was And I, it's another cautionary tale of the draft and like not believing everything you hear it, but like also realizing you're getting fed a lot of BS. If we're, if that guy's a third round pick and it's not, don't give me that nonsense. If that's just the way that the board fell. No, that's, that's a product of, I don't want to call it lying, but that's a product of, I don't know what, is that collusion? Because it was everybody was, were all the teams telling all these draft experts, Oh yeah,

he could be the first quarterback taken off the board. And maybe it'll go as high as number two to Detroit. That is a wild one. And I'll be really curious to unpack that in the years to come, but going back to Detroit, I was disappointed to see that they didn't come away with like a quarterback at some point. But I think that they did a really good job in terms of a team that based off what they did this offseason, based off what they did in the draft, could make a considerable jump.

And I'm going to preface that considerable jump for a team that won four games see sky's the limit it could be anything it could be eight games it could be seven games like become relevant like that's what you have to do and by the end of last year we saw a Detroit team that was hungry beat the Vikings beat the Cardinals and god they kicked the Cardinals ass when they came back in that game so like there is um there's a lot of belief i think in what detroit did now as far as like the vikings i don't we don't need to harp on the trades and especially that first one if you don't want to um but i can't really look at the secondary right now and think it's all that much better than what it was a year ago.

Like I, I, that's, that's where I have the hard time. And I, and I'm happy to go through the Bears class, but I think that in terms of what Minnesota did where, I mean, the trades aside is, is Lewis seen in Harrison Smith better than Harrison Smith and Cam Bynum. Andrew Booth Jr., who you guys asked a lot of questions to, the guy was perennially injured. He has not played a healthy season since he was in high school,

yet they ended up using a second-round pick on this guy. Ed Ingram, I looked at Warren Shar draft uh the overdraft underdraft chart that is like the most the biggest overdraft i think of of day two that was incredibly surprising so like there's some picks here that i think you look at and you're just like is this the product of a new gm a first time gm making these decisions like we're you know and and that will i think in turn the coming days and coming weeks lead you to see like okay what changes do the vikings make in terms of their evaluators in terms of the scouting structure um because we know that quesio do fomensa does not have, that's not his strength. His strength is on the research and development and analytics side. Are they going to add more in the analytics department?

Are they going to build an actual research and development department that was like San Francisco's? What are they modeling their front office as? That, to me, those are the questions that are the fallout of this draft. Granted, I know we can't, and I'm not somebody who's like, oh, this grade's an A, this grade's an F. I don't do that. And I'm really glad because I would hate that assignment. But there are questions with the Vikings draft that I feel, if you're looking at this objectively, and there are a couple of good picks in there. I won't say that they're not, but there are a couple, especially at the top of the draft on day one and day two, that was kind of surprised by. Folks, while there is plenty of classic football gear to check out at SodaStick,

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with Andrew Booth. It's a pretty big one and a really big one with Ed Ingram in the second round, which as you mentioned, it has been kind of dubbed one of the biggest reaches of the entire draft. And that's where it sort of gets a little bit puzzling and the Vikings and how much they made themselves better for the future as well. Because if both of those guys hit, then, okay, well, that's really good for you. If neither becomes a star and they're just okay, well, all right. I mean, that's, that's good, but maybe not as good as it would have been if you tried to draft a star at 12th overall.

And then when you look across and see the Lions get Jameson Williams directly from you, I mean, that was the boldest thing that Kweisi Adafomenta did was not only just bet on more players, but also bet that Jameson Williams won't be a star or won't dominate the NFC North for a long time to come along with Amon Ross St. Brown. And I think that the Lions are doing all the things and even the Bears to some extent that we thought the Vikings should do. We thought the Vikings should sort of aim for star players at really key positions like edge rusher and wide receiver. Well, that's what Detroit did at the top of the draft. They got two potential superstars in super valuable positions. And then what Chicago did was they just got a bunch of players, but also look at, I mean, they did take a guard in the fifth,

but who cares about that? But it's like defensive back, defensive back, receiver, defensive end, tackle. Like those are a lot of the top picks and that's not the approach that the Vikings really took. So it feels like if you were doing a battle of the rebuilds, you would raise the banner for Detroit. You would say Chicago kind of did what they could with what draft capital they had left. And the Vikings put themselves somewhere in between, well, maybe this will be good for you in the future.

Maybe this will help early on next year if Louis Scene becomes very good right away, but did not look like one of those franchise altering drafts like it could be for Detroit. And that's the that's the that's what I would take issue with with the Vikings. And there's plenty to take issue with, I think, with Chicago's draft. I think it was obviously a pretty good draft just in terms of... You have to think about this logically. Rome's not built in a day.

A roster that was below ground zero and they're just starting to get above ground. There were so many needs. It was an incredibly, and probably still is, an incredibly talent-deficient team. It's not just

wide receiver offensive line they had to blow up they had like the one of the worst secondaries you saw it you saw who can doll kid all vindor whatever a guy's name is the cornerback who was like the ninth string cornerback because they had everybody injured or out due to covid during that that first game they played against the vikings they gave up 31 passing touchdowns last year. A cornerback was the nearest defender on 27 of those. That's awful. So of course, like, it's kind of like pick whichever one you want to go with and what you get the best value for, because everywhere has needs on this roster for the Chicago Bears. So I get that. But like, and I know that like some Vikings fans were,

you know, just in their feelings when I was commenting because I have every right to do that considering I'm still connected to the team. And, you know, I happen to know a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to this team. Stuff that's happened with Minnesota this off season has not lined up. You don't say that you're in a competitive rebuild and then go pay Kirk Cousins the amount you did on the extension and give yourself zero leverage whatsoever by giving him his no trade clause back, etc. You don't make those sort of moves with, you know, keeping Daniil Hunter happy, keeping him around, getting Z'Darrius Smith uh bringing back patrick peterson like all of these moves that they've made so far show you okay what the will family ownership people who are in charge for making these decisions are pinning all of the blame on coaching saying we have a talented enough roster to win this year kevin o'connell is a coach that's going to take this team to the next level that Mike Zimmer

wasn't able to get them to. So if you're thinking by that logic, then you're thinking plug-and-play type players. Get somebody who can contribute for you right away, like Justin Jefferson did as a rookie in 2020. So when you pass up Jamison Williams and a host of really good players from 12 to 31, that doesn't add up. What has been said versus what has been done does not line up with this franchise. You cannot actively be a playoff team or competing for the playoffs if you are rebuilding. So what are you? Are you competing for the playoffs or are you in a rebuild? You can't toe this line of both. And that's what irritates me when I'm looking at this

because it just feels like, once again, does this not feel like 2020? Half in, half out, one foot in, one foot out? Absolutely feels that way. And get rid of the rest of your defense because of regression, age, and salary cap issues. Why are they trying to do this the same way that clearly didn't work out two years ago and then led them to miss the playoffs the last two years? That's my issue with it.

And that Lewis scene aside, he might be an awesome player. That's so great. Kyle Hamilton was available to you at 12. Just saying. And then there's quarterbacks like they i'm not so i i don't i'm not sold on necessarily trent mcduffie but there's a reason he was the third cornerback taken off the board and there's a reason that there was no consensus on the fourth because of injuries and all these other things that plague the rest of the group so and on top

of that wide receiver a lot of other positions that you could have taken if you were truly trying to win right now. But again, the sort of logic and discourse that we're seeing with this group kind of feels like history repeating itself and it just doesn't all line up. That would be my issue with it. Well, and that's the thing about saying an oxymoron like competitive rebuild is then that's sort of what the approach looks like a little bit as well um because if you were trying to get a player that could help you right away then trade up and get the guy that you want or draft the 12 and get one of several guys that are uh really high ceiling prospects who could help right away kyle hamilton um i haven't mentioned jordan dav a lot, but they could have gone with him. He was picked right there. And then Jamison Williams is the obvious one. And with his progress from his ACL injury, now it appears he

might be able to play the majority of the season. So that would have been a help right away and later type of move. And Lewis seen is kind of neither. I mean, it's like, he probably doesn't change your fate this year. Long-term he's a potential centerpiece, but not like a rebuild centerpiece because of the value of the safety position. Those are guys you need, but they're not guys who drive the success the way that a Joey Bosa or a

Jalen Ramsey type of edge rusher or cornerback would do for a defense. It's usually like a really nice complimentary piece, unless the guy is Harrison Smith and then he could be a centerpiece, but there's only like five of those guys in the league. So the likelihood of that is not super high, but you know, being stuck in, in that I think has been frustrating for a lot of fans. And I've gotten a lot of notes from people just going I really went into this offseason looking for something to latch on to to say like make it make it different for me and this was the last opportunity that they had to do that to say all right we are going to do things differently we are going to give you something to latch on to and say but look at

the way that they handled the draft and it doesn't mean that they blew it it doesn't mean that we should give them an F because we don't know how these picks are going to turn out. They could all end up being pro bowlers. But I think that if you were hoping for that, you know, Chris Alave, who wasn't there when they picked or, you know, Garrett Wilson or Drake London or Jamison Williams, that player who could kind of change how you feel about them or a trade up for Kayvon Thibodeau or something really exciting. It just didn't happen. It never came. And that's

the story of the whole off season. Like what would have been exciting? A Kirk Cousins trade, moving on from all the 30 year old players, getting all new guys, making a bunch of free agent signings with cap space that you created. Zedary Smith is a good signing and a good player if he's healthy. But that's really the only one that fans can look at and go like, okay, this guy might change things for us. Everybody else, that's where it has to come back to. Yeah, the coaching. And the other thing too, and this is the difference between the Vikings and Chicago, the Vikings

just didn't get their salary cap right. They didn't fix themselves for the future. So it's hard to see them changing anything significantly until when like 2024. So the, in the race of the rebuilds, which is kind of the point Detroit takes a big jump because they drafted two guys who could be all pros. And then Chicago nudges ahead, even though they are way behind in roster talent presently but in rebuild talent and rebuild cap space chicago has an edge here yeah and like i think the thing too because i get it like i i listen to this fan base now every single day and they're not patient and i it. Like, I have empathy for that because they've been sold the same bill of goods before.

They were sold it with Jerry Angelo. They were sold it with Ryan Pace. They have one playoff win in 15 years. Let's let that sink in for a second. So when you're told, be patient, Rome isn't built in a day. And no one has said that exactly. But, like, I'm trying to, like, like talk to like, you know, the masses here. That's what they're saying.

Like they have so much work to do and it's not down just to just to build it back up and do it in an effective way then you can make the moves like they made and i know that the draft analysts that were out there looked at their day two because they didn't have a pick on day one and even day one there were people like hmm you know the run on receivers, maybe Chicago should get involved and take some calls at the end of round one. And Ryan Poles told us that he didn't place any calls and he didn't take any calls because they didn't have a first round pick, which again, when I think back to Minnesota's draft, like the Bears gave up their future first to go up to 11 to get Justin Fields. The fact that Minnesota did not get a first round pick next year for number 12 this year,

I understand the trade charts and whatever and analytics and you know, there's, there's different trade charts, like rightly, Jimmy Johnson's trade chart and the values there versus other things. The ESPN analytics said that the Vikings won that trade because of the hall that they got, but you never you never don't get a first round pick next year because the Vikings are going to be sitting there being like hmm man like that would have been nice to have next year um but I say all that to say like you know the the approach that Ryan Poles took was the smart and the calculated one but it's not one for the faint of heart because when you want to win now and you expect that

Justin Fields has to be better this year so you have some idea on him that's where the school of thought goes should you have gotten one more receiver than Valus Jones somebody who you know doesn't have the offensive production it's not like he had this illustrious like you know college career where he was a great receiver he transferred from usc because he wasn't getting playing time and he had one good year at tennessee so it's like you come away from that and i think you can make the argument and a lot of people have that they didn't do enough this draft to help Justin Fields. And that goes back to free agency, too.

They signed one receiver and they really only made one notable addition on the offensive line with Lucas Patrick. But when you have as many needs as this team does, I don't think you can fault Ryan Poles for staying true to his board and going Kyler Gordon, who they were surprised was there. And again, Warren Sharpe's draft board shows that that was an underdraft because he was supposed to be gone by, I think the like either 36 or 37 and they got him at 39. It's a good spot. And you have a safety who's going to start opposite Eddie Jackson.

Cause you don't have another one of those. So there's still a lot of holes though. Like they did not address this stuff around justin fields and i think a very impactful way yes they did get four offensive linemen on day three and that's great but you and i both know anybody knows like you can't just gamble that like a fifth or sixth or seventh round offensive lineman's gonna pan out for you let it like at all, let alone right away. Yeah. Plus there are no players in the NFL named Velas who have ever succeeded.

So Velas, sorry. The analytics say 0% of Velas have ever had success in the NFL. So I think that's a 25 year old rookie, which a lot of people have like taken issue with. And I mean, that's the benefit of the COVID year for him. That's the benefit of the transfer, you know, being able to transfer going from USC to Tennessee and finding a place. But now they're fortunate. I think it's not a 25 year old rookie who has dealt with injuries throughout his career and just kept getting medical red shirts. It's somebody who said that he, I asked him about it.

And he said that, you know, he's only had a high ankle sprain. So that ended up like, he says he has a body of a 21 year old, which we'll see. I just, the only thing I would caution is that when you get like, and there's a lot of rookies this year because of the COVID year that are older, like most of the Bears draft picks and day three are 23, 24 years old.

The only thing I would caution when you get somebody who's like halfway to 30, it's not injuries. It's not, you know, any stuff like that. It's what habits do have they had, have they created for themselves that they've had a longer time to keep enacting. And how do you have to break those habits? Cause obviously like technique is something that has to be refined at the NFL level. You're probably not seeing a lot of 25 year old corners at the rookie corners

because you be grabbing like incessantly. And that's not, that's, that's a habit that has to get like knocked out of you very quickly. And it takes a long time. So there's probably only a couple positions where that actually makes sense um and we'll we'll see what ends up panning out with the bears in that one yeah but i think that even with just 25 year olds there's always the question of if you were really a great prospect you're probably taken before that right like especially at a wide receiver position where sometimes with quarterbacks, you're

behind somebody else. You don't get your opportunity like Joe Burrow, for example, and he had to transfer. He had to sit out. Then he finally gets his chance, shows what he can do. But if you're a wide receiver and you're not beating out other USC wide receivers to get chances, and then you have to go somewhere else and then you're the old guy on the field and you're beating out. I mean, that's like if you have two years in college you go back and play high school basketball right like

you'd probably do pretty well uh so the same thing here and it sounds it just sounds like with a lot of these that you know they kind of had the scouty mick scouterson type of draft that you would have expected from mr scout with uh ryan poles and I guess this could have been the Vikings draft instead because Ryan Poles was almost their GM. But how many now, now that it's over, now that the dust has settled, how many games are the bears going to win? Like, I don't know what Vegas is over under is, but I think it's like maybe six and a half.

It can't be very high, right? Okay. So they move their over under, I was asked about this yesterday. It's up to seven now, so it went up. They were six and a half when that opened the day that it was, like, after free agency, I think. I still would take the under, and I think that's a safe play because, again, I know they got – like, they're happy with their draft class,

but nobody's going to come out and be like, oh, God, look what these guys were bringing in. Like, they're going to say that, And I feel like for Ryan poles, he, he should be happy because he accomplished what he set out to do. You know what I mean? Like he came in, told us at the combine, the six, the five picks at that time that they had before they traded Cleo Mack was the hand that they were dealt. That's a way of being like, yeah, Ryan pace and Matt Nagy left me a mess and i have to fix it so he flips

six into 11 or five technically into 11 and that's a good number to come away with because last i checked you still have to get to 90 and the vikings are there i saw the jake barges signing yesterday that put them at 90 so exciting um they're they're set but like the bears still have a lot of work to do i still think that this is going to be a very long season and it's a learning season now people in the building are they going to be okay with that like they can say it now but like when slot when losses start piling up and emotions start running high and people start getting hurt and things that just the day in and day out wear and tear on your mentals when you're going through that might not be thinking the same way but like if you are truly going to stick to this approach of we're a ways away from being competitive because

i mean that that's that's what you basically said without saying it verbatim the day that you traded khalil mac like that's what it. And this is not the year to like, think that they're going to all of a sudden surprise people. And it's tough because they did obviously as the Vikings did too. This is the year, the NFC North drew the NFC East. It would be a great year. Like if you were a team that might be, you know, it's a great, it's great for the Vikings. You know, if they really think that this roster can win,

can win games with a new coaching staff. Great that you drew the Washington commanders that you drew. I think Philly is going to actually be pretty good so bad that you drew Philly and Dallas whatever I don't know what Dallas is but you also have New York Giants on there like that's at least two of two as long as Cooper Rush doesn't play the Vikings are fine yeah exactly here's another question you, though. Who wins the NFC North first, the Vikings or Bears? I think, I mean, God, it's a hard one. First, as in, I mean, do I have to, like, count out how many years this will be? I don't.

I think it's going to be a really long rebuild here in Chicago. I don't know. Like, can I say Detroit? I think it's going to be a really long rebuild here in Chicago. I don't know. Like, can I say Detroit? Oh, you can't say Detroit. Yes. I mean, I'll go ahead and throw Detroit in there because I honestly just don't know because the Bears are so far away from being competitive and that's not like a knock on their strategy. I think it's the smart strategy.

It's just like, it's such a rare strategy because people talk big game when they talk patients, owners talk it all the time to be able to get the people in that they think. And then when results, when they don't start producing, even though they said it's going to take a while, that's when the pressure and the heat starts getting on and moves are made and everything else. But man that's uh that's a tough one i i'll go and

i'll say the vikings because and first i think the vikings have a much more talented roster right now i don't think that's under i mean in parts of the quarterback position because you have experience with kirk and justin fields doesn't have anyone to throw to outside of darnell mooney byron pringle and maybe valis j. I don't know. Justin Jefferson is one of the best receivers in the NFL. Irv Smith is coming back. Can he stay healthy? Then that's a great thing. Adam Thielen, too, gave a wide receiver three in KJ Osborne. Yeah, I think it's very easy to say that the Vikings have the better roster now, but we don't know what timetable we're talking about here as far as winning the NFC North. So that's why I'm going to go ahead and say Detroit. Okay, I just thought of one with Velez Jones.

The best ability is a Velez ability. That is the worst pun and plan words I've ever heard in my life. So Detroit is so far ahead on their rebuild with what they just did in the draft and what they did last year that they're the obvious answer here that if they were to draft a quarterback next year let's say they win six or seven games draft a quarterback high and then build around that quarterback you're still talking about like 2024 2025 of detroit being able to win the division and i guess that's what makes the question really so much about the Vikings is Chicago. You could see getting the cap, right?

And then next year going into free agency saying we're a big spender. It's Chicago players do go there. It's not like it's a place that's hard to get people to show up. So if they got their cap situation, correct, they could sign a bunch of players to try to be better in 2024 the vikings really have to do it within these next two years because then things kind of hit a roster reset unless some of these guys become superstars yeah you're in the same spot you'd be in because of the quarterback's position and and how long rogers plays matters to this too it's probably at least it's at least two more years though and he's likely to still be good and that packers roster is far better than anybody

else's despite losing davante adams they're still better than everybody else's and so i think it's a really interesting question because it depends on can the vikings somehow win a division within the next two years does that take rogers getting hurt does that take rogers doing so many afterwards yeah right or taking so many like weird cleanses that it eventually uh hurts his body long term i don't know um but that that was kind of like coming away from this we really saw the rebuilds at the center of this uh draft now i just wanted to ask you before we um scoot uh what else caught your eye in the draft um as a national radio personality as you are the baker mayfield stuff like what you know i'm not a fan of the things that he said either, but the discourse coming out of this draft of just like straight up hailing on this guy with golf ball size ice balls. Like, come on.

Like, he's not an awful quarterback. Like, I just feel like what's been put out there and everything that's gone wrong for him, like, and granted, he's made it worse because of some of the things that he's said and done and not necessarily, like, at the right timing and everything. But, like, he went to an organization that was awful. He did. And he set the touchdown record for a rookie. He helped turn them around. They made the playoffs. They won a playoff game with him.

And beat their rival at that when that happened. And he was hurt last year. Like, I don't think that... I just, like... Because I remember I tweeted. I was like, Icky Iquanu is going to do a great job blocking for Baker Mayfield next year. People were like, no, idiot. Like, I knew that.

And then, of course, on Saturday, it ends up becoming like, man, talks are falling through. And I was like, then they draft Matt Corral or whenever that was, like day two. And it's like, geez, like, like you know that's something like i just can't figure that situation out you know what i mean like that one doesn't make any sense to me because it's like you guys need each other you may not like each other but like he is a bridge quarterback for you and then he can go be someone else's problem to deal with and matt rule maybe you can save your job I don't know it just that whole thing as far as um you know veteran players getting involved in this mix that one

surprised me just of like how that apparently died after this weekend um that was not surprised about the AJ Brown thing I felt of all the receivers that were going to force their way out he had the best leverage to do so and I'm not surprised that debo is still a san francisco 49er yeah i'm not surprised by that either um john lynch finally shined a little light on what's going on with jimmy garoppolo like it seems like they were ready to trade jimmy garoppolo somewhere and then all of a sudden he has the surgery on his arm and that just brought everything to a halt but with the baker i think what it says about baker mayfield is that everybody around the league just thinks he's a bad guy and nobody wants to touch that with a 50

foot pole that's what it sounds like because he usually if anybody can halfway play quarterback and think about what's been said about carson wentz like most people have talked badly about carson wentz after having coached him in Philadelphia and then in Indianapolis, that they had trouble coaching him and he still gets acquired. Yet Baker Mayfield must be so impossible to deal with that teams are like, nah, we don't want any part of that because at least Carson Wentz is a jerk behind closed doors as opposed to in public all the time with Baker Mayfield, which it feels like they really, truly, these teams cannot stand.

But I think that what will end up happening, his contract makes us a little tough is either he gets cut and someone just signs him or, or the teams will wait to see if their quarterback gets hurt in training camp or in week one or week two last, last year. Are they going to give him the deshaun watson treatment of like we're going to continue to pay you just don't show up for camp i mean yeah god i hate that precedent was set i hate that because it's just absurd now everybody's going to follow that for somebody who's pissed off and disgruntled where it's like i'm just you're going to still pay me my money even though i'm not doing anything for you you can't bring that guy to training camp are you kidding me yeah i mean it would just be a circus so that would be

like that you'd be inviting the distraction in hard knocks would cancel its trip to detroit this year and would go to cleveland or they would end up doing hard like two of them um there's no way i think what it ends up being like, think of last year with Washington, Ryan Fitzpatrick gets hurt in week one. They have to play Taylor Heineke the whole season. They go seven and 10 in that spot. Sam Bradford. Remember that what happened with Sam Bradford before he got traded to the Vikings, he tried a camp holdout that lasted like three days and everybody made fun of them with Philadelphia after they draft. Yeah. After they drafted Wentz.

I could see the same thing happening is just you sit around and you wait and you assume some quarterback's going to get hurt in the first couple of weeks and some team is going to think their season is over and you'll be standing right there waiting to give them Baker Mayfield for, oh, a second round draft pick or something like that. What makes it complicated is that cap space situation where he's oh 18 million so how do you even make that happen but i think that that's probably their best route at this point since nobody's giving up anything for baker mayfield yeah no i i don't disagree i think there are a lot of players like robert quinn is one here um we talked uh that that was a situation we're talking about last week of,

you know, do they end up trying to deal him because they dealt Cleo Mack. There's a, there's two, there's two sides of the coin here. Do you want to feel somewhat of a semblance of a competitive football team? Do you have someone who can rush the passer? Cause if you don't,

and if you're not confident in the guys that you've just gotten free agency and Al-Qadeen Muhammad and Justin Jones to play three technique. And, you know, the guy who just started playing defensive end in 2020 that they drafted from Miami, Ohio, you should probably keep him around. But there's going to be some playoff team come the trade deadline. That's like, gosh, we could be a pass rusher away from

shoring this thing up and contending. And that's when your value is the highest. So I feel like there's multiple cases of that around the league right now. And Baker falls into that category. I just don't know what's going to happen. I'm intrigued by it, but I don't know what's going to happen the next couple of months in terms of like his future. And, you know, does he does he show up?

Does he not? Is he told to stay away? Like what happens? So yeah, I mean, the fact that players moved in general was surprising. And then the players who did move, the names were a little surprising, including Marquise Brown, who I think actually has a really good argument that his team is not. We now know why he got, we now know why he got moved. Right.

Oh, because of the suspension for sure. But also like, I could see why, uh, yo uh oh yeah i could see why he wanted to go because i think baltimore's passing game has just been really poor the last few years and he'll be a better fit going down the field there um so you know okay that's the last last question last question we were going into the draft saying the nfc is weak and this is an argument for why the vikings can make the playoffs and maybe part of their formula for being competitive, who got the most better or did anyone change your mind when it came to the NFC and what they did in the draft, not for the future, but for this year?

Cause what Detroit did for the future definitely shapes our opinion. Yeah. And of course, like I want to buy into the hype around um the jets right like i thought they had a great draft and i know that like this has happened before like you know uh this is when they've had like you know tons of first round draft picks and everything else and you know we look at it and say man have they finally gotten it and we knew joe douglas when he got there in 19 in the spring summer whenever it was um we knew that that was going to be a long process for him because i don't they they hadn't yet fired the coach right adam gates was still the coach there and he knew

that he had this mess in the front office that mike mccagnin left him and we had and he said it was going to take a couple years well this should be the year that like that front office gets judged probably um you know that the heaviest I would give them and I don't give them grades uh but I'd give them a high grade NFC like teams that are actually gonna like be good this year I'd say the Falcons had a good draft like I thought all that stuff that Terry Fontenot was talking about last week was a smoke screen, but it ended up in, it probably was,

but like, it ended up like falling right into their lap. Right. Like drafting a quarterback. Like he said, they were going to do it. I just didn't think that it would be where it was and who it was, but they're not a team that like can actually like contend this year.

Um, probably Philly. Yeah. It's probably it because like the the I never thought that Jalen uh Jalen Smith right the Alabama guy I never thought that he was um excuse me Devante Smith like I never thought that Devante Smith was going to be this like breakout stud for star for um jaylen hurts now i um i was obviously proven wrong it's a heisman trophy winner whatever like at the college level but i never thought it like i always felt there was an element missing from that passing game aj brown is incredible so like pulling off that trade on top of the fact that you know on defense jordan davis is like seven of me so like he's a man of a human

being i mean it's awesome we talked to him on radio last week during you know everybody's got their promotions that they're doing pre-draft and he was so insightful and just talking about like kicking the crap out of their offensive line at georgia and practice every day and not taking any l's um among their i mean their defensive line was stacked like trayvon walker um what you know that's the first round it's first round pick and i think they had four taken in the first round like it's insane their defensive front was just wild five i think it was five five um they that was a great pick i think for them so like you know and even getting to Kobe Dean I know his medicals are

apparently really suspect um and that's why he fell all the way that he did but I think they came away with a really good group and they were playoff team last year that was a team that utilized their first round picks the way that they needed to and the fact that they got like awesome I don't even know another way to describe it like aj brown is like what i think of when i think of big body x you know like that's what i think of when i think of that type of receiver and i'm really excited to see him play in philly and also i i have personal ties to it too i covered aj in high school he's one of my dandy dozen kids like to see somebody from like who grew up in a trailer in mississippi like get a

hundred million dollar contract you know know, hats off to you. I was thrilled when I saw that happen. Also Philly gets to find out if Jalen hurts can play or not, because he's got no excuses to make sure that they fulfill that promise of, okay, like they didn't go out and get a quarterback. That's their guy and they're, you know, sticking with him. So let's see, like, let's see you know sticking with him so let's see like let's see put stuff around him let's see and they could be a spot if next year there's a disgruntled quarterback who wants to go somewhere else hey we can give you these two

great receivers this tight end and so forth so they did a good job to help themselves right away well courtney uh always good time we didn't sing though you want to sing on the way out what's up with the bears what's up with the bears did they blow the drift what's up with the blares is it a rebuild do they just stink the bears bears