Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Courtney Cronin thinks the Bears should trade Justin Fields

Episode Date: January 27, 2024

ESPN's Courtney Cronin joins Matthew Coller to talk about the Chicago Bears plans at quarterback. Will they trade Justin Fields? Will they pick Caleb Williams? Is there a case for Drake Maye? Then former Viking and Bengal Solomon Wilcots joins to talk about the championship games and the Vikings QB decision Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by PrizePix. Go to prizepix.com and use the code PURPLE for a first deposit match up to $100. prizepix.com, code PURPLE. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining us, an extremely special guest returning to the show for the 1,475th time, ESPN's Courtney Cronin. What is going on, Courtney? How are you? I'm good. It's the 1469th time. I don't know how you could have possibly gotten that wrong. Do better next time. But no, I'm great. It's, you know, third week of January. Nothing has popped off other than the Bears hiring an offensive coordinator this week. So that took up, you know, bulk of my week, but it's been nice to sit back, get ready for championship weekend,

watch some really good football. Division round did not disappoint. And, you know, get ready for what's going to be a pretty wild off season once again in Chicago. How are you? I'm all right. We're spending a lot of time with every possible quarterback option that the Vikings could dive into.

And so, of course, I want to discuss with you the whole situation with Chicago and where they are in their timeline. But let me get your take on what the Vikings should do. Because yesterday I talked myself into signing Baker Mayfield since his offensive coordinator just became the coach of the Panthers and his top receiver is leaving. I don't know if he's coming back to Tampa Bay, signing Baker Mayfield and drafting a quarterback at 11, or even potentially trading down, picking up a little additional draft capital and then taking Bo Nix, Michael Penix, JJ McCarthy, whichever guy drops. That's an option that I think a lot of people like, but what do you think they should do?

Well, what percentage do you put on them re-signing Kirk Cousins? Like, I know that that was up until a certain point last year, the school, or this past season, the school of thought that, man, like, Zolgad's column, whatever that, what day did he write that at? That was the New Year's Eve game where he said that Kirk Cousins could rake them over the coals or,

you know, they should, Vikings will hand Kirk Cousins the shirt off their back. It was just brilliant. It was absolutely quintessential Judd, which is what I love. But I was like, damn, does he have a point? Like, might that be their best option? And I still, after all this time, I flip-flop back and forth on it, but I think I'm more on the side that they don't re-sign Kirk, that they let that situation finally come to an end, that, you know, Kirk coming off of the Achilles rupture, when will he be ready for training?

When will he be ready to take the field during practice will be training camp will it be a little bit later we know that Aaron Rodgers apparently revolutionized the Achilles rupture so we'll see um but 11 like the more I like read about these quarterbacks and of course you know my team currently holds the number one overall pick so I you know outside of Caleb Williams and Drake, unless the Bears trade down and trade out of that pick and somehow get another quarterback later on. You know, the idea that a Jaden Daniels, that a Michael Penix Jr., that J.J. McCarthy, Bo Nix, like the four others outside of the top two, where they will fall. It's been really interesting to read up on the mock drafts that are out there. I know Mel just put his first one out.

The thought of the Vikings being in position to where they don't have to trade up to one or two to get the quarterback of the future. Like this, I don't think this could have worked out more perfectly for a team that misses the playoffs this year has all of the, all of these decisions it has to make in the offseason I think 11 is a perfect spot for them to stay put and to go get a quarterback of the future I don't think you need to trade back from there because you know

and you bring up McCarthy is he a second round guy is he a late first round guy I know that stuff will change over the next couple of months with, you know, senior bowl. And then of course, like all the pro days and all of that, but I think they are in a prime spot to go get their rookie quarterback to take next year to, you know, build around this QB and free agency in the draft and then move forward that way. Like they finally have their window to go a different direction. How can they possibly go back to the same thing that they've been doing despite how well in the eyes of some that Kirk was playing up until the time

he got hurt in Green Bay so our friend Kevin Seifert uh bursted some bubble there with the Vikings have a decent pick and have a chance to draft their quarterback because he pointed out that had Josh Dobbs not won the game in Atlanta that they would have been picking like sixth and you would have been right there in prime position to either take Jaden Daniels with that pick or even potentially trade up to get him but I do think this is a pretty special quarterback class it's not often that we're talking about QB4 as a guy with Bo Nix's numbers for example or Michael Penix's numbers, or even JJ McCarthy's skillset. A lot of times these quarterback classes, Bo Nix would be the number

one quarterback. And yet this just happens to be one of those years where you have a few guys that are above and beyond as far as the quarterback prospects. And then the second wave is still guys that you could see becoming franchise quarterback. So I agree with you. The Vikings are in prime position to do this right now. I wrote this yesterday that my percentage for Kirk coming back has dropped. I was at 50,

50 at the end of the season. And now I'm at like 35% that he comes back just because of like, sometimes in the light of day, things look different when you're watching Nick Mullullen's play and you're going oh man if they only had kirk today they would be doing a lot better than this and he wouldn't have thrown that pick and everything else and this is really miserable watching these backup quarterbacks but then you look up in the lions or in the nfc championship and you look at their roster you go where's that go i mean that's just going to be good for years. And you watch Jordan love and you think, okay, well that might be the

most talented quarterback in the whole conference right now. That's not great for the Vikings. And then you look at the Chicago bears, two top 10 draft picks, including number one, overall, they trade for Montez sweat. DJ Moore is a superstar now at this point. And how are you supposed to compete with these teams if you just run the same thing back? The shining year for Kirk Cousins, the 13-win season, was one of the worst seasons ever for the NFC North. I mean, the Vikings clinched that division, I think, faster than anyone ever had clinched a division because the teams were really struggling. So, you know, things have things have changed I think very quickly and it sort of reminds me of you go out someplace with your friends and you come up with all these ideas and everything else and then you go to bed you wake up the morning going well I'm not doing any of that all that's crazy that's the same thing I think

with bringing back Kirk and the other point is just I don't think it's good for Kirk to come back I don't think it makes sense to come back on a roster that needs so much work what would the contract even be he's 35 years old he's going to be 36 in August how many more years do you know coming off eight no matter if he ends up like do I guarantee at some point this offseason we're going to see him throwing kind of going the Rogers route hey look I'm on schedule like my achilles is fine he did not have the dr neil alatrash uh speed bridge surgery he had his i believe in minnesota so differences in the rehab differences in how he's going to be able to get back on the field but i guarantee at some point we're going to see a video of him working out and be like oh maybe

he's he'll be ready sooner rather than later does that accelerate other teams or the vikings and be like okay look like we can you know we we saw where he left off last season can we get that version out of him coming off of injury the answer is unknown because the guy has never been freaking injured before like he has had the healthiest of careers up until this point so it's a big gamble and i don't know if you want to take a gamble on something like that when this is finally their window we how many years did you and i cover these teams um when like the lowest they or i guess that the worst they had drafted was 18th one of the years like that was when they got garrett bradbury and then of course um you know when when the years after the NFC championship,

they were down towards the bottom of the draft and they like, they weren't ever in position to go get the quarterback. That's going to be either like a top 10 or just outside of the top 10. So like, it's like, this is finally your chance to do this. You can't squander it by thinking of, okay, well kind of holding onto the past in a lot of ways with what Kirk Cousins has done for this franchise. But also if you look at it in totality, and this is Kwesi Adolfo-Mentz's first really big test as a general manager to see, you know, the type of draft class he can put in. And I think he's put together some good ones so far,

but like when you have a quarterback involved, it's a completely different ball game because that will i think that honestly either like solidifies you or starts the clock ticking on your tenure about how much longer you're going to have to be making the call um which is the same thing with ryan poles like general manager in chicago like what do you this quarterback decision will define your tenure um and how long it's going to be in Chicago. Or if it doesn't go well, you're probably out of a job. Same thing I think can be said about Wasey. And if they don't get this right, what does that mean for where they stand in the NFC North? When you mentioned it, Green Bay is only getting better.

I mean, hell, for the youngest roster in the NFL to get where they were this year with Jordan Love and outside from that wild ass throw that he threw across his body who knows maybe if they end up going to win that game and they're in the NFC championship this week it's a completely different story but either way the arrow's going up the arrow's still going to be going up with Detroit for the next couple of years I would think they'd be foolish if they don't resign or if they don't sign Matthew or Jared Goff to a contract extension this offseason. Where are you like, we talked about this, I was hosting radio this morning, we were talking about the idea of championship weekend. If you're in Chicago, do you root for the Detroit Lions? Like, is it okay rooting for somebody in your division? And I say, if you're a fan of any of these teams

that are not in the postseason, what, you know, Vikings or Chicago Bears, based on where your NFC North opponents are, like, that's the model you got to follow because they're getting younger at quarterback, not older at quarterback with a Jordan Love and then maybe a Caleb Williams here in Chicago that I think Minnesota's got to follow suit on that and not just try to run this thing back because it's the comfortable thing to do because financially how many years have they been going at this trying to get out from under that contract and not feel like if they'd be locked in oh man salary cap issues got to extend them got to lower the cap hit and it just keeps

kicking the can down the road like the can's stagnant now I don't think that they need to do that if they if they truly feel like this is the end of their partnership with Kirk, it can be okay to move on at this point. To your point, this draft also lines up for having guys that are there that you could pick. Whereas you don't know that that's going to be the case even next year. I mean, so we all expect Shadur Sanders to be taken at the top, but you're not going to be the case even next year i mean so we all expect shadur sanders to be taken at the top

but you're not going to be at the top if you bring back kirk and you go nine and eight as you so often do and then you're picking like you said 18th and then what do you mean then we just then we just do it all again over and over again it really feels like delaying the inevitable because uh our friend manny hill who you know quite well he he said, like, you're moving on from Kirk someday. When will you do it? You know, like, it's not, it might be two years from now or it might be now, but it's probably going to be the same story either way.

And let's get into the Bears part of this because the thing that went wrong for the Vikings in the NFC North is that everybody else had a plan and they all worked. So starting in 2020, the Green Bay Packers had a plan and they all worked. So starting in 2020, the Green Bay Packers had a plan. We're going to play out Aaron Rodgers. We're going to give it over to Jordan Love. And then we're going to have 10 more years of great quarterback play. And that's kind of how it looks. And then in Detroit, they had a plan. We're going to hire Dan Campbell. We're going to grind our way through a tank season. We're going to draft a bunch of

dudes high. We're going to trade away expensive players like TJ Hawkinson draft replacements for those guys hit on draft picks build around an already very good quarterback and Jared Goff and profit. And that's exactly what happened. And then in Chicago for a minute there, Ryan poles looked like he needed to rent and not buy in Chicago. And then it was like the undertaker meme where he's like out of the coffin. Like I'm back as soon as they trade for Montez sweat. To me, that's like a pivot moment for Ryan polls and this franchise, because now their defense is good and it's on its way. And Jalen Johnson, all of a sudden wants to stay. And, and he's the number one PFF cornerback in the league and an absolute monster having him seen in person a few times and then you know you have now this quarterback situation which looks extremely

favorable you could draft another impact player in the top 10 they've executed their tank plan as well so of course the question is though will they pick caleb williams or drake may or did justin fields do enough in the second half of the season to convince them to trade out of that pick, pick Marvin Harrison jr. Or something, take another bunch of guys and continue to build around Justin Fields. So you remember all of the kind of thing,

like the Dobbs conversation, this, how like polarizing that was like this Pat, you know, what did it last for like two and a half minutes um during the 2023 season like take that add the kirk cousins fan base like the die hard he can do nothing wrong it's you know everybody's negative take that so like those two things multiply a flaming fireball in all of that. And that's the conversation that you get,

whether to keep Justin Fields or to move on and draft a quarterback in the draft. I have never seen something this toxic in terms of the discourse and how polarizing it is. Like this is a city that has not gotten the quarterback position right in so long. And I get it. And it's like for the fan base and for the people who believe that, that they've seen enough of a glimmer of hope, like, man,

if you just get another receiver opposite DJ more, if you just get, you know, a competent center that, you know, it's not snapping the ball over Justin Fields head or somebody who's not injured all the time. And you put those pieces around Justin Fields with that defense, that thing's going to take off in 2024. Justin Fields has never finished higher than 15th in total QBR and there's so many other factors that come into play that when you talk to people outside of the organization, that's why like so many front office people make it sound like this is a a not

even a question like that if you have a 38 start career start sample size and you don't know whether justin's your guy like with like you know a shred of you know a doubt then you already have your answer and that's why it's so difficult here because and I don't envy polls and having to make this decision to stay with Justin Fields to forego the number one overall pick in back-to-back years seems not plausible in any universe. But this organization very clearly felt that the coaching staff that in Justin Fields were never on the same page. And it's very clearly like, if you, I mean, you've seen a number of games of luke getze

and justin fields combined it was never a symbiotic relationship well now they have somebody who comes again from that shanahan mcveigh system like an offshoot of it the same way that luke gets he did under matt lafleur except that shane waldron has offensive coordinator like he has play calling experience as an offensive coordinator so your thought is is, well, maybe if you get Justin in this system with somebody who's not learning the job on the fly, maybe that'll take him to the next level. But the way that I come down on this, and I always try to think of it rationally, if you have 38 starts to sift through body of work, and you still don't know. To me, you're hedging too much on the, well, what if? What if we do this? What if we do this? What if it doesn't pan out? What if it doesn't pan out?

What if all of the guesswork that you put into this doesn't pan out? And then you've already given up on the number one overall pick in back-to-back years when you could have had ZJ Stroud, and then you could have had Caleb Williams. To me, that means that you're probably out of a job very soon. And it's a risk that I don't think that this team at this juncture can afford to make because if you're using the number one pick on a quarterback, you're not bringing a quarterback into a bad team. It's a very good defense.

You have a decent enough offensive line. You can certainly upgrade at least one or two pieces there. You can go get another receiver. Um, but you're bringing a quarterback in to a team that's ready-made to contend in a year or two. I don't see how you pass that up, whether it's Caleb Williams, Drake may, whichever one it ends up being. Folks. I just got another box from hello fresh this week and let me tell you their meals are fantastic you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep skip trips to the grocery store and count on hello fresh to make home cooking easy fun and affordable that's why it is is America's number one meal kit. The coolest part is how many options you have. There's something for everyone. Dig into their biggest menu yet

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One breakfast item per box while the subscription is active that's free breakfast for life at hellofresh.com slash purple insider free with the code purple insider free hello fresh america's number one meal kit so i kind of think of it this way i've used this comparison before when it comes to coaches but if you're thinking about breaking up with someone in a relationship, you just should. Because if you're even thinking about it and you're like, man, if our next date goes well, then I'll stay with him. But if not, then I'll break up with him. And it's like, well, you should just break up with him then. You're clearly not committed.

And if you're thinking about breaking up with Justin Fields, you should just break up with Justin Fields and you'll never have a better situation in your life. In terms of draft pick, you have number one, it's a great prospect. In fact, it's two great prospects. So even if you pick the guy people don't expect, and I'm a little bit, we'll talk about this in a second, but I'm a little bit leaning toward Drake May, but, uh But when it comes to just this situation in general, the only other way I could make the argument is that this roster and team is very, very good. And I think that, or will be because they've got money to spend more draft picks on the way.

They nailed the draft recently. Like they're about to be really good as a complete roster that what we've seen from Justin Fields is that you can at least be competitive. And then you could make your decision later on Justin Fields and see him under a truly competitive environment rather than running him through a tank. I mean, even Jared Goff, who is a really excellent quarterback and is now in his second NFC championship game, he's led four top five offenses in his career. And yet when they tore apart the roster he lost every game i mean like there's no one who's good on a tank team so if you're making

the argument for fields and the other part of it is it's not just fields potential outcome it's anybody else that you could get other than him so it's either your number one pick and all the eggs are in that basket or Fields plus anybody else. And I think that is like an odds game that you might consider playing because teams have had these number one picks blow up. And, you know, Zach Wilson is ruining a franchise and Baker Mayfield, when he was in Cleveland, ruins a franchise. And it's like if you pick the wrong guy, you are absolutely fired. It's all over. Whereas with Justin Fields next year, you probably win nine to 10 games.

And then you could make a decision at the end of that. That's the only way I could frame it. That works. That still doesn't work for me though. Logistically. All right. Let's, let's play that one out because I go through these literally every single

day. And like, it's the matrix of these. I mean, if we had a pie chart for all of these, like, I would mess up the math so bad because there's so many different. It's not like three choices. There's, like, 15 that you could realistically make. If you stay with him next year, you're picking up the fifth-year option. There's no way that you're going to pass him the number one overall pick

and just roll with Fields in 2024. And I know the people who are like, well, you don't need to pay him right now. Just let him play out 2024 and see where you go with it. There's no way that they would pick up his fifth year option and have him play out 2024. And then if it goes poorly,'re like whatever we'll move on like jobs are gone at that point and you're probably starting over with an entire new staff like i know what was said at the press conference about maddie berflus and they like the direction

that things are going in the fact is that coach and that coaching staff has won 10 games in two years you cannot see this thing through another year if they have another bad season. But does 9-8 really get you further to the ultimate goal of taking the North and never giving it back? That's what Ryan Pohl said when he was first hired. I don't think so because unless you think that Justin can make massive, massive leaps and that it was all Luke Getzey, it was all of the coaching around him him that he was put in a terrible situation

that, you know, this offense that was run in Seattle, basically like third 2021 out, like Russ's last season was just, I don't know. That's just, it doesn't, it doesn't equate to the trends of the last two years, not like the 2012 through 2021, like 22 and 23 is a better indication of the offense that Shane Waldron is going to bring to Chicago. If you don't think that that's going to make Justin Fields a top top 12 top 13 quarterback

then you don't stay with him like I know that's a hard it's a hard pill to swallow because like you're taking a gamble that he doesn't go somewhere else and ball out but like they've already had to swallow a tough pill seeing CJ Stroud somebody that they passed on last year, get his team to the playoffs as a rookie. And a team that were 11-38-1 before he got there. Once you get the quarterback thing right, you get everything right. It makes it a lot easier. And I think that that's part of the overall nucleus here of this, of this equation that they have to solve that if they feel like this can't be a

short-term fix, which again, like if you go nine and eight next year, does that really get you closer to like what you want to be? Cause what happens if fields regresses? What happens if you, not even like regressing, what if he can't ever just like get past a certain level and you're stuck at nine wins, 10 wins, that doesn't get you where you want to go. And then you will have squandered an opportunity in the scenario where you trade the number one overall pick to put pieces around him.

And if that doesn't work out, then why did you do it? Something I have thought about a lot through the Kirk cousins era is when people call him. Cause I love that you use this framing for fields, like the best he could be, even if everything is right, considering the shortcomings is probably like a mid-type quarterback. And if you have the 12th best quarterback in the league, that means a whole third of the league is better than you at quarterback, and you're trying to win

the top spot. It's not about winning the 12th spot and feeling good about yourself. It's trying to win the top spot. So when you look around and you look at the teams that are there every single year, Oh, hi, Kansas city. Oh, hi, Baltimore. Oh, hi, Buffalo. What are you guys doing here again? Oh yeah. It's because your quarterbacks are great. And what you have in Chicago is an opportunity to draft a quarterback who at very least in either Caleb Williams or Drake may has the skillset that projects to be one of those guys. And if you get that in the NFC and you look around and go, well, who do I have to beat in the NFC? Jordan love Dak Prescott. We'll see what Brock Purdy becomes in the future, but he's probably going to keep being pretty good, but he's certainly not Josh Allen. And he's certainly not Lamar Jackson.

And he's certainly not Patrick Mahomes. And have the prospect there and instead you're going to say no let's settle for a guy who threw for 2,500 yards and I think there's another thing too that you and I dealt with in Minnesota a lot which is excuses and with Justin it's like the same as if you want to if you are thinking about breaking up the same as if you're making excuses if you're making excuses for somebody in your life then it's probably a problem if you're making excuses for this is why justin fields hasn't thrown for 3 000 yards this is why it's got to be the center's snap it's got to be this sounds like the left guard problems we've always had here right and and find yourself a quarterback who you never have to make excuses for, is the way I would look at it. And so long as you have one that you do have to make excuses for,

you should be looking for other quarterbacks that you don't have to make excuses for, that you can have for 10 years and say, the only thing is just luck and health or whatever else that's going to play into it. But I would rather, much, much rather roll the dice on that and getting that player as opposed to Justin Fields. I also think too, and you've watched way more games now of Fields up close and personal than me, I don't think he's ever going to see it. I don't think he's ever going to see defenses, read them,

be a true pocket quarterback. To me, he's always going to be a first read and bail type of guy. And I still saw that even when he was playing really well in the second half of the season. It's, it's an issue that I think is very real. You'll never get anybody on the record publicly sent talking about how he has issues seeing downfield, but like it's very clear that reading defenses,

knowing like sensing pressure off the edge. I remember that was on his NFL.com draft profile. That was one of his biggest issues. Well, lo and behold, the sack numbers are not all on the offensive line. Those things have not been coached out of him, and it's hard to believe, in my opinion, four years into this, third offensive system into his NFL career, that all of that's going to change, that all of it's going to be simplified and it'll be fixed with Shane

Waldron as his OC. You know, with Justin, I honestly remember that game against Tampa in week two. Remember when they were like, just like crucifying him because he's waiting in the pocket for like 4.7 seconds there was a couple that were over five seconds and there's you know chase claypool downfield there was dj moore downfield there was cole comat like there were all these open throws that they kept circling i feel like it's the only highlight film that they show of him on espn for some freaking reason um i felt like he in a way was trying to force himself to stay in the pocket to do as he was coached because remember those comments came out about like why are you overthinking in games you say your play is robotic well why is it well it could be coaching um i think that they were trying to make coach him into something that he wasn't last year and they even admitted

that they wanted him to improve his pocket presence. Did his footwork improve this season? Yeah, it did. But has it improved enough to where you know? I can't get over the fact that we haven't even talked about him having a 3,000-yard passing season. I'm so sorry. All these years in, three years in, that should be the baseline.

And anybody last week, you know what drove me nuts was all these years in three years in, that should be the baseline at anybody last week. You know what drove me nuts was all these people, even some players on the bears tweeting man, Lamar Jack, or Justin Fields can be Lamar Jackson one day with coaching. Lamar Jackson was the unanimous MVP in year two of his career year two with an offensive coordinator that ended up, you know, working his way out of Baltimore because they could never truly marry it up together.

And it's out of the box as Greg Roman and his ideas were like unconventional ideas that worked. Like he still found his way out of Baltimore. Like I don't just because they're two quarterbacks who are mobile and can make throws on the run and it really can really make throws with their, their best asset in a lot of ways. Justin Fields best asset is his legs. Lamar's best asset is his legs and his arm.

The guy can make some insane throws. And I just, I don't know why, maybe there's reasons why like, you know, people make that comparison about like Lamar and Justin Fields. I, I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't see it. But that's like, it's just like the certain baseline things that you just don't know if he's ever going to get there, if he'll ever be good enough to be more than just the guy who gives you flashes of these things.

And that's a tough pill to swallow. But fortunately for this front office, for this coaching staff, they didn't draft him. He was drafted in 2021 did he come into a situation where he had unfortunate circumstances and let the turnover yeah he did but you know what that's again the excuse-o-matic like how many times in Minnesota when we were covering like Kirk under Zimmer oh man the offensive line they really got to fix the offensive line they They got to get him another receiver. They got to get him a pass blocking tight end or they got to get him a, you know, what else? Like, I mean, once they get him Justin Jefferson, everything will be great. Like they got to do all these things like, no, like a move tight end. I remember that was at the hot one back in like 2000, 2018, man, they'll get, they'll go get Trey Burton,

put him next to Kyle Rudolph rudolph his offense will take off yeah right um a lot of the same excuses have been made about justin field well if you get him more than dj moore like well darnell mooney was a thousand yard receiver two years ago did he forget how to play football no like a lot of that i think has to do with the quarterback himself and i don't know that those things are going to be magically fixed by putting more pieces as we like to say kind of a like lazy cliche way of doing it but i don't know if that gets fixed by doing that for justin fields something i think about with justin fields is the vikings uh half-hearted attempt to trade up to get Justin Fields. God, I'll never forget that. Man, back in 2021.

Never forget that. Yes. And I think that if I remember, the internet people who always nail it around the Vikings criticized you for your report that then when they released the Carolina Panthers video of them talking to the Vikings was very much confirmed. But again, those people have trouble sometimes, especially with like QB fours that they fall in love with. But that's a whole different story. So I do think about that sometimes with Justin Fields and the Vikings and how Justin Fields meets a baseline of talent and performance that to me, if he had dropped into a really good team with great receivers and a sound system with very good coaching like let's say gary sticks around and you get gary kubiak delvin cook justin jefferson and you've just got this really great situation that justin fields on a rookie contract they may have been able to stack up so much around him that the Vikings

could have made that work, but he drops into a tank team and then now is about to get expensive when they really need him. So they will not be able to do everything that they want to do with the roster. And it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So sometimes these circumstances could play into it, even with someone like Jalen Hurts. Is it wildly different between Jalen Hurts and Justin Fields? Probably not. That's actually a better comparison than Lamar. Lamar is an all-time great NFL player. Please stop.

Like, let's not even talk about that. But with Jalen Hurts, when the roster wasn't so good, he was just okay. And then this year when it fell off or A.J. Brown got hurt, he wasn't as good because there are some shortcomings to his game, which leads me to this. Who would they trade Justin Fields to for how much and how afraid are they that he's going to be great somewhere else? So have you heard within the last 24 hours since Raheem Morris got hired by Atlanta,

apparently he loves Justin Fields. That's the rumor that's out there. And Atlanta has been like, I mean, I feel like Atlanta has been on the radar for months now, even dating back to when Arthur Smith was the head coach is very clearly it wasn't Taylor Heineke and it sure as hell wasn't Desmond Ritter, but that's a team. Like when you're talking about the, what ifs, like if our guy, Gary stayed around and, you know, Justin Jefferson and, um, Dalvin cook and all these other things, like that kind of sounds like Kyle Pitts and Drake London and B. Sean Robinson. And, you know, that kind of sounds like an Atlantalanta situation i can't see it's really hard for me to see teams giving up like high first round draft capital like in the idea that's out there right now i know that mel

kuyper had this as a possibility like and i don't know who actually started the atlanta falcons rumor about them giving up the eighth overall pick to go get Justin Fields. If that happens, even if you're like, man, because I've said this all week after Shane Waldron was hired, because the number one question you get is someone on the beat from like radio interviews and podcasts are, well, does this tell you who they're going to go with at quarterback? No, it doesn't. Because I think this system, this quarterback friendly,

Shanahan-y McVay system, they interviewed four candidates who had coached under Sean McVay. Like, very clearly they wanted an offense that can suit a number of different skill sets. And when you've worked with, and again, it is hard to tell, like, unless we knew he was the OC and the play caller for three years in Seattle, the work with Jared Goff in Los Angeles, like, where did Sean McVay stop where did um Shane Waldron start like those are always hard things to tell but like Jared Goff had two of his best seasons statistically one of those being the Super Bowl year with uh Shane Waldron as the past game

coordinator so like when you think of it that way it's like all right with like any either one Caleb or Justin could probably fit in this offense but like the idea is very clearly with these OCs like give us a plan for both give us your plan for Justin Fields give us your plan for Caleb Williams or other quarterback in the draft and that's why if even if Ryan Poles has his heart set on Justin Fields right now if you get an offer like that like the eighth overall pick how how do you say no to that like That's why, even if Ryan Poles has his heart set on Justin Fields right now, if you get an offer like that, like the eighth overall pick, how do you say no to that? You can't.

There's no way. Atlanta makes a lot of sense. I was going to think until I saw the news that Luke Getze was going to interview for the OC job under Antonio Pierce in Vegas, there's no way that those two would reunite fields and get see, but Vegas made sense. Cause I know that they need a quarterback and given where they're drafting, I mean, they're kind of ish like where were they like their top 10 right.

Or top 10 or like top 12. They're like right around where the Vikings are drafting. Like you could go that route unless you really feel like, man, Justin Fields in that offense thrown a Devante Adams, whatever. Like, but there aren't that many teams that make a ton of sense or teams that are going to give up the draft capital it takes to go get him. And maybe those teams actually have more leverage than Chicago at this point. Cause everybody's looking at it saying, all right,

they may just hold on a field. I mean, to drive the price to where they want it to, why would you give up a pick if you know that the Bears want to trade out of this, that they should, like, you're going to try to lowball them, not try to, like, give them the farm to go get a player who's unproven 38 games in. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple.

Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet or you haven't tried it yet, very simple. There are yardage totals on prize picks. You either pick more or less and boom. Each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun. And the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose much. It doesn't cost much to play. You can turn 10 bucks into 250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money.

That is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. So recent history for guys like Justin Fields, basically they didn't work out and someone else wants them is usually a second round pick that's what sam darnold went to carolina for that's what josh rosen went to miami for and there's also something to note as well which is they always go to the opposite conference i just can't see ryan poles being like yeah let's yeah let's see him in the nfc championship or something like the last thing you ever want is to give a direct fairly direct opponent in your conference your quarterback and have it work out for them so i think that maybe a

more subtly uh notable team for them might be denver if they're moving on from russell wilson which they i think clearly i think that it doesn't don't bench him if they're not like with all that he's still left like owed if they're not planning to move on there's not a lot of afc teams but tennessee might be another one if they're not sold on will levis they did invest a ton in will levis an early second round draft pick uh and also they might just look at it as let's throw as many things at that quarterback position as possible. Let's just bring in fields with a second round pick, have them compete with Levis, have them compete with Malik Willis and see if somebody becomes a good quarterback. It's actually not a terrible strategy for Tennessee. That's not in a position where they're going to win right

away anyway. So there will be options there i think for the bears to do it now am i a silly goose for liking as of this moment drake may ever so slightly more than caleb williams no i don't think so because like the more we learn about caleb williams and yes i know 2022 when he wins the Heisman 41 touchdowns five interceptions like the guy was incredible did those numbers drop a little bit this year yeah by like 10 passing touchdowns but he still had 11 rushing touchdowns like there's like USC was not a good team this year that's very clearly with the bowl game that they were playing in. And you know, he, of his five interceptions, he threw three and one half, um, against Notre Dame. It was not a great, it was not a great scheme and I, or not a great game game plan in terms of offensively

what they were doing. And I think that was a very tough defense because I believe if I'm correct here, um, based on like seeing Patrick Mahomes, the, you know, the DC at Notre Dame was once with the Bengals and schemed against like whatever the game was that like Patrick Mahomes, like had a, you know, one of the, either it's a playoff game a couple of years ago. Like that was, it wasn't Lou Anarumo, but it was somebody else. And so like, that's part of it.

Like as to why he struggled there. Anyways, I don't think that the idea, like I hate the generational talent label. I hate that that's always lumped onto quarterbacks because it feels like every draft class has one of those. And if the gap, like just from like guys that I've talked to in the league, scouts who like have seen both of them,

it doesn't feel like the gap is as like wide as we're like making it out to be publicly like, oh my God, Caleb Williams can't miss prospect. Like you should be fired if you don't take him. I think with any of these quarterbacks, especially this year's class compared to last year's class, it raises an eyebrow if you think that, you know, if you're not set at the position you think passing on that's the right option but drake may doesn't get enough credit for how good he is as a prospect and what he projects to be because there is just so much noise around caleb williams because i just don't know that like it's a dead set oh my god the bears are doing like it's it's not unlike in previous years when like they could, you, you knew in 21, they were all trying to save their jobs. So they like,

right by Trubisky, like, and then they go and like trade up to get Justin Fields. It doesn't feel like as obvious of what they're going to do from the outside, which then like leads to the intrigue on Caleb Williams and like, okay, is he really as good as we think as we think he is and of course what you saw when they go eight and five and how what's his name like quarterback like their quarterback backup quarterback the guy who threw for six touchdowns he had like some like super quarterbacky name like morris mike mike more i don't know something something quarterbacky like it was cool like if you want to use the word quarterback,

you use it for the guy's name. But no, it's like, okay, well then, is he a product of the system? This other guy who'd play like one game, not even like, you know, comes in and throws for six touchdowns against Louisville in the bowl game. What does that say about Caleb Williams? I don't know. The rhetoric around it is interesting and it's only going to continue to get more, you know, just, just going to continue to get more you know just just it's going to get louder over the next couple of months but i say all that to say i don't think you're a

silly goose or crazy for any stretch for thinking that drake may can all of a sudden like move over where caleb williams is is expected on a lot of people's top of their draft board i don't know if it'll be as i I mean, last year, what got CJ Stroud was the S2 cognition test. Like that's why Carolina, because their crazy ass owner is like, so, you know, dead set on like having and meddling in every, you know, football affair that he put so much stock into that. And that's why it was like, oh, this is Bryce Young. Like Bryce Young's the number one quarterback off the board. I don't know if it'll be like as clear cut because Drake May had a very, very good college career.

Just didn't have like the exact same numbers. And you're also playing in the Pac-12, which I think you have to factor in here, not saying the ACC is the end all be all, but again, like those things factor into why Caleb Williams has been as productive as he's been. Miller Moss was the guy. What would I call him?

Like Mike Miller? Like I knew it was like something Miller, like it's a football guy named Miller Moss. Like shout out to three point specialist, Mike Miller for his appearance on this podcast. He was one of, one of my favorites to pick up in video games, put him in the corner, have him shoot a bunch of threes. Let's do this. So I just think

Drake May is huge. And I think that matters when it comes to like, we were talking about seeing things downfield, being six foot three, 220 pounds, having an incredible ability to throw the football that it does remind you of someone like cj stroud or even joe burrow but a bigger arm even than joe burrow but accuracy is still going to kill in the nfl and uh play and he's getting he's a playmaker too it's not like he's not a playmaker just because caleb williams is more of one so i i lean a little tiny bit that way and also i i like dra Drake Mays personality a little bit better than Caleb Williams. And that's only my distant perception. That's not reporting or

anything else. Why don't we end on a little pie chart action here? Oh God, I don't have any pen. I don't have a pen with me. I should have prepared. You got, you know, your phone calculator. Yeah. Okay. But you know, if you put me on the spot on this stuff, like fine, we'll do a pie chart. If the math doesn't math, that's your fault because I was unprepared. If the math doesn't add up, then we tweet the clip and we let everyone make fun of you.

So here's the question. This won't be a super hard one. The year is 2025. Okay. I want you to give me the percentage that each NFC North team wins the division by the end of the 2025 season. So what percentage chance out of a hundred do the Lions, Bears, Vikings, Packers have of being the team at the top of the NFC North. And I'll give you some music to let you think. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

It's a pie chart. Do, do, do, do, do. You can write it down somewhere. Like, I'm going to get it, like open a word doc, just keep singing. Do, do, do, do, do. How long will it take? It takes a while there's only 100%

to work with it's tough and you are making me nervous there's only four teams there's only four teams just give me two seconds and then I will give you an answer alright

it's time this is so hard I gotta make sure I add it up correctly you always do this We'll give you an answer. All right. It's time. We need the screen. Oh, I have to do this so hard. I got to make sure I add it up correctly. You always do this. You always, like, expect my math skills to all of a sudden be so much better than they are. Fine. Here's my answers.

You ready? All right. Don't get upset. You stress me out with this because I'm so bad at math, and you this and I didn't bring paper and it's hard for me to visual I'm not wouldn't be isn't this but isn't this on you though I mean you had to know it's like preparation for a game like you've got to know the defenses you've got to prep for you know what's going on I know your tendencies you're always gonna ask me to do a pie chart I don't know why I didn't think of it like it's my fault um okay anyways so i tried not to make the math too confusing because as we know it's tough um

i put the green bay packers as a 35 chance to win the nfc north by 2025. so 2025 season the winner of the nfc, they have the highest percentage chance. So I'm writing Green Bay there, Jordan Love, where he's at in his career, he will be five seasons in then. You'd like to imagine that at some point, and to their credit for the amount of work that they got done with guys like Dontavian Wicks and Tucker Craft and you know uh Jaden Reed and like all of these other names like it you know at receiver like they really did get a lot of work out of names that you know you'd like Aaron Rodgers apparently said there there was something wrong with all these guys well they made it work and I think Matt LaFleur is a as a play caller can

can do that like he can work around a lot of things of course Aaron Jones won't be on the team I wouldn't think by that point re-lock reload at quarterback and then we'll see what happens with their defense maybe their defense doesn't play that soft zone coverage and doesn't like put them in a really tough spot but I think that Green Bay like they were the seventh seed this year they shouldn't shouldn't have been there yet Jordan Love had one of the best second halves of the season of any quarterback so I will put them at 35 percent first teams off the list okay I mean I like it I think that when you have your franchise quarterback and a lot of players who will be on rookie contracts because that's the other route like you can have the rookie quarterback contract

or you can have an expensive quarterback with all rookie contracts around him, which is what Detroit has, and that's what they're hoping to emulate. And they'll probably also clear some cap space by then with some of these guys that they signed during the Rodgers era. It's a huge deal.

Yeah, I mean, right now he's the most talented quarterback in the conference. yeah is it in the yeah it might be in the whole conference and depending on what happens in chicago so that's that's that's a big deal all right so who's next then next i'm making sure my math is right on this um next is detroit i think you you talk about quarterbacks on you know they're matthews i'm gonna get it right at one of these points i'm gonna not call him Matthew Stafford I've done this like 20 times and it's like can you just like not confuse the two quarterbacks who swap spots with each other just once in your life Jared Goff has one more year on his contract they'd be smart to extend him this this they

don't need to see anything else like he is the right fit in this offense yes ben johnson may leave but regardless like they have a fit there they built this offensive line to last at some point taylor decker's going to retire at some point frank ragnall you know all these injuries and getting older like they're gonna but they have the right strategy and i just i trust brad holmes with my draft look at everything he's done since 2021 look at the four first four draft picks that they had this year. I think this is a team that is not, you know, regardless of what happens this weekend in the NFC Championship, they will be in a really good spot in years to come. So I put them below Green Bay just because they are, you know, the quarterback spot too, like, you know, getting

older and what Jared Goff's contract will do to the rest of the roster too. Um, I put them right under there, 30%. So 35% green Bay, 30% for, um, Detroit. Now what you want me to do with Chicago and what you want me to do with Minnesota, like the quarterback uncertainty with both of these two teams, like still makes it very difficult. So I put the next, I'm just, I got to make sure my math is right on this. I know you think this is easy. It's not. I have the Chicago Bears at 20%, 2025. And that is assuming, I don't know what they're going to do at quarterback. If it's Justin Fields, if it's Caleb Williams, if it's the man on the moon, I don't know, but I know that

that is what has to get done because defensively they're in a really good space. Montez Sweat is here for the next five. He signed the five-year extension right before he played his first game. He's the highest paid player on the roster currently. They'd be foolish not to re-sign Jalen Johnson. I hope it doesn't get to something stupid where it's like, let's just use the franchise tag on him after you spoke all this big game about, oh, he's not going anywhere. You can pay him.

You can pay him Jair Alexander money if you want to, because you know what? By the time Jair Alexander signed that extension ahead of the 2022 season, he had four interceptions to his name. Jalen Johnson had four this year alone. Yeah, two of them came against the Raiders, whatever. He did his part. That defense is only going to get better because you've got young players on the back end too, whether it's Tyreek Stevenson, Jaquan Brisker, they really like Terrell Smith. They're two linebackers that they got for the price of one, more or less, and I'm not saying anything bad about Roquan Smith. They're two linebackers that they got for the price of one, more or less. And I'm not saying anything bad about Roquan Smith.

I thought he was a terrific player, but they just couldn't come to an agreement. That defense, add another pass rusher in there, get a disruptive three technique. Like quarterback-wise, that should be somebody you plug in there who can succeed. So I have them at 20%. So that would lead my remaining 15% to the Minnesota Vikings. And a lot of that is because thank you. Thank you so much for making me feel good about my math skills right now, because you know what?

That adds up to a hundred percent. I think the Vikings are at a period of transition or about on the cusp of one. And I know that we haven't even talked about what the hell is going to happen with justin jefferson this offseason and whether you know what the contract is going to be does he want to stay there you know what quarterback does he want to play with i think the bills finally come and due to where they've pushed this competitive rebuild through as far as they can it's time to start over at quarterback and rebuilds. Don't just snap. You can't just snap your fingers and make it happen. I think Brian Flores' defense was like unbelievable this year from like 24th to 11th in DVOA in

one season. How much longer does he stay there? Where do they, you know, some they're getting older up front. I mean, Daniil Hunter is a free agent after this year. Like it's going to take some time to rebuild on both sides of the ball. And until I know what they're doing at quarterback, I think that that's probably the safest answer to give you as far as the rest of like the rest of my percentages that I can use on a pie on my pie chart.

So does that, does that satisfy you? I know you froze on the video, but I'm hoping that you're still there listening to me because that those are my answers. I will give you the percentages one more time, just so you can make sure that my math's correct. It is 35%, 30%, 35% Green Bay, 30% Detroit, 20% Chicago bears, and then 15% Minnesota. I'm sorry if i froze on the video hopefully you could still hear me oh okay good so uh i think this is an excellent pie chart i think this is one of your best it took a little bit of time it did but you know greatness takes time i know that you know this like greatness take time takes time right i mean the uh sistine chapel was not painted by michelangelo in uh four days it definitely takes time so this is very similar as far as the artistry of the pie chart very similar uh but no i i actually think this is i don't know how much i would even change for that um because the the

old if i wanted to be bold i might say give give me the highest odds for Chicago because they have the most cap space. They will take a quarterback who could be the best of anybody. But that also could be completely wrong if the guy ends up not turning out. Or they end up staying with Justin Fields. Right, exactly. So that makes it more uncertainty. And I do think that the Vikings are fighting the biggest uphill battle here of any of these teams because you mentioned detroit that's probably their window is from right now until 2025 2026 golf will get older more expensive although i'm sure they'll push a bunch of money

they will go full rams and push a bunch of money down the road and everything as they should in their super bowl window and that's kind of the hack that you have. So they can pry the window open longer than you would expect when their team gets expensive. And Green Bay should be right there as well. And from Jordan Love, I know that there's a lot of coping going on with Vikings fans, but what you saw was real. He, in the second half of the season, best quarterback, probably in the NFL for the second half of the season.

The numbers support it fully. And then second most touchdown passes in the NFL for the second half of the season. The numbers support it fully. And then second most touchdown passes in the league, off-balance throws, arm talent. You saw it all. There's no denying that. So I don't know if I would change a thing about this pie chart. And I also would not change a thing about this podcast. It has been wonderful to get back together with you again.

I know for sure when the next time we'll be talking is the NFL combine in Indianapolis. We always get together and do a show there. So I can't wait to do that. And I am excited to follow along with your coverage and whatever small spats you might get into with Chicago bears fans over the quarterback decision. So let me ask you before we go,

like I've held back i definitely have but like of my feuds that i have willingly stepped in to like correct people like which you get more enjoyment out of me with vikings fans or me going at bears fans i honestly think you've taken it to a new level with bears fans because also now that Twitter allows you to write even more characters sometimes you will just go to town sometimes it's not just like a snarky response sometimes it's like an essay about somebody going after you and I open it up every time where it says show more I'm like oh, oh yeah, show more. Let's see the whole thing. Let's see this whole thing. But I would just say that if somebody's going to come at you,

they best not miss because it is not a good scene when they go after you, just as it wasn't here for many who tried. But I really appreciate you, of course, as you know. And I'm super happy every time I see you on Around the Horn or whatever else, you know, Get Up and whatever you're time I see you on around the horn or whatever else, you know, get up and whatever you're doing on television.

So always thrilled for you there and can't wait to hang at the combine. So thanks for doing this. I talked to draft scout a couple of days ago. She's busy right now. You know how she gets in January when she's trying to like go to East West shrine game and go to the senior bowl. She never has time for me, but she did say that she is very much looking forward to this

offseason and coming back here because she's got some things to say it is quite a year for that for all of us so all right thanks for doing this and uh we'll see you soon i have a couple of special guests with me one of them you guys know sol Solomon Wilcots, a former Minnesota Viking and Cincinnati Bengal, also NFL broadcaster as well, and a podcaster these days as well, does a little bit of everything. And also, you know, Sally, you always bring interesting guests with you. Sometimes it's doctors to talk about different procedures and treatments and so forth. But this time you have brought a friend of yours, a football, former football player, Gabe, who is technically a patient ambassador for the Macy procedure on his knees, which

we're going to talk about a little later. But Gabe is also a ball player, so he is going to talk football with us as well. So welcome, Solomon. Also, Gabe, great to have you on the show. Are you ready to talk a little football with myself and Solomon Wilcox, Gabe? I sure am. Appreciate you having me. Absolutely. Solomon, I want to get started just with the matchups that we have coming up this weekend and the Detroit Lions being there. And I want to get your opinion on how they got there, because it was a long journey for the Detroit Lions, and they've been through many, many difficult years.

But I think that Vikings fans are dealing with a little bit of coping, watching Jordan Love and then watching the Detroit Lions. And it looks to me like this NFC North is not going anywhere. And how strong in your mind is this Detroit Lions team now and it looks to me like they're going to be here to stay for quite some time yeah and Matt you probably remember one of the big conversations and I'm going to go back to say the 2021 draft which I thought was a pivotal year for the Detroit Lions as this last year's draft in 2023, Brad Holmes done a wonderful job of kind of hitting it out of the park. And some of it was very fortuitous

because a lot of people in Cincinnati wanted desperately for the Bengals to take Panay Sewell with that fifth overall pick. And there are a lot of people who said, no, Jamar Chase. And we knew Jamar Chase was going to be this great player. He played with Justin Jefferson at LSU. We remember what those two were like.

And both guys sat out that COVID year in 2020. So now we get to 2021. Who do you take? And we all know that touchdowns follow blocking and not the other way around. Gabe will tell you that as well. So we felt like if you want to protect Joe Burrow, yeah, you could go get his favorite receiver. But you do better by giving him a mean, nasty, agile right tackle like Penae Sewell.

And that's exactly what he's turned out to be for the Detroit Lions. Everybody's going to talk about the weapons on offense and the quarterback, and rightfully so, and Jameer Gibbs and Sam Laporta. I look at the first round picks on that offensive line and Frank Ragnow and Taylor Decker and now Penae Sewell. They're rated by PFF, as you already know, the second best offensive line in football. That's the reason why the Lions are winning, and that's the reason why they have a chance to go and win a Super Bowl. If you want to give them any chance to do it, look at the offensive line first, and then we can start to talk about all the other elements that are really fun to talk about.

I think when you have a non-mobile quarterback, having that offensive line stacked up the way it is, is really everything for Detroit, because we know that Jared Goff is not going to be running around back there, but when he's got his platform, he can set and fire. Gabe, tell me, where are you from? Who are you rooting for here in the playoffs? Who's your team?

Well, from Minnesota. Who I'm rooting for rooting for well my team's out of the question so now i gotta i think you know normally you you you don't root for anybody in your division but detroit lions got such an amazing story that you you know you can't just ignore them. You have to give them their respect. You have to notice their journey. And so right now I'm leaning towards the Lions right now. It might not be a popular choice by my fellow Minnesotans, but you know what?

They're the underdog, and I love Cinderella stories like that. And you know what, Matt? I will say this. Think about this. Gabe and I are football guys. We love football coaches like Dan Campbell. You can go all across this country, and you talk to football guys. They won't even know who Dan Campbell is, but they hear him talking.

They're like, oh, that's my kind of coach. So you kind of lean into him because he talks the talk, he walks the walk, and you can see how his players have responded. So it's kind of refreshing to see. Well, that's a great transition, Solly. I want to ask you about the Vikings quarterback situation here, and then we can bounce back into the playoffs. But I started with the Lions because they're not going anywhere.

The Packers are an extremely young team, as every broadcast has mentioned, how young their receivers are, their weapons and so forth. And even I was looking at their cap situation. They can make cap space this year if they want to sign free agents. And here are the Vikings kind of sitting in the middle of the league, as they so often have been with a decision to make on Kirk Cousins they can bring him back and try to build around an expensive contract or they can go to the draft and take the risk there how do you see it playing out what do you think that they should do with their offseason approach here to be in the mix with the Packers and Lions and hey by the way the Bears have two of the top 10 draft picks, which is kind of a problem for the Vikings as well. Yeah.

Vikings are in the unenviable situation of trying to replace a quarterback, which means they're trying to find their quarterback of the future. And my problem with that, as you well know, Matt, they literally kind of really started to think about other alternatives from Kirk Cousins going into 2023. And even as they were sitting there in 2022, they were contemplating it. Kirk Cousins just always continues to play above expectation. And I know for a lot of people who don't really understand what he really means to the team, now that's gone you really know now you know but i can take us back to even prior to 2022 or that's when um you know they really should have started to identify okay what direction are we going to go and and try to get the quarterback sooner while you still had kirk cousins don't wait't wait till Kirk Cousins is gone. And now you're desperate.

Everybody knows the last time. I mean, the worst time to shop is when you're desperate. You don't go to the supermarket when you're starving hungry, right? It's not, it's not going to be a, you're not going to make wise decisions. And that's kind of where they find themselves now. I think they're almost forced to bring Kirk Cousins back to have any chance of competing with Detroit and even the Bears, to be honest with you, and the Packers as we go into 2024. So now they're in that really tough spot because you don't have the money to pay the quarterback like Kirk Cousins a lot of money while still trying to build a roster around him. And that remains the problem, Solomon, is that year after year they've tried that,

and we've gotten to the point of definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again. And, you know, you mentioned the word compete. That's interesting to me because that comes up a lot here, and it's can you really compete for a super bowl or you are you just competing to sort of exist and not be terrible right with kirk cousins that's where they've been they've been a team that goes in where vegas before the season thinks you're an eight and a half win over under and gives you the 17th best odds to win the super bowl and that's

just not the place that you really want to be and yet that's where they would be if they brought back Kirk for next season. Not to mention, we're talking about a 36 year old guy with an Achilles injury, but there's also the fear of drafting another quarterback and then throwing that rookie in. And you can speak to this from your experience. I feel like coaches are very nervous about this. They know what they have in Kirk, and they feel like they can control it. But the rookie quarterback, they need to do a lot more, and there's a lot more work to be done. But I think we've also seen, like, C.J. Stroud, and I know he's special, but we've seen rookie quarterbacks succeed.

What would that have to take in order for the Vikings to draft a Michael Penix Jr. or Bo Nix in order for them to be able to drop in and lead a competitive team right away? Yeah, I think it's a really great question simply because what we're finding is that I don't think teams know the quarterback position as well as a lot of coaches and a lot of clubs believe, or at least lead us to believe that they are really capable and competent of recognizing who that guy is when they see him. I think they're throwing, I think many of them, and you know, we have the data, they're guessing and they're guessing poorly. Let's just, let's be honest.

If they were better at making the choice at the quarterback position they would be more committed they'd be more willing to move on from one guy when it's seemingly over or the price is too much and they'd be easier ready to move on at least the green bay packers saying look we're not sure when the incumbent quarterback is done, but we think we know, but let's, let's write it out. But at the same time, we're going to go draft our guy. Like they've done it. They've made the transition. They kind of shown you in a way that you can first remain relevant. Then you go for Superbowls. You can't, you can't just say, Hey, let's go win a Super Bowl, and you're one of the worst

teams in the league. You got to first become relevant. Then it's done in stages. And I don't think our fan bases really understand that. I think some clubs operate independently and separate from those clubs who really truly do know how to do it. There's a reason why the Packers have been relevant and chasing Super Bowls for over the last 30 years. That's a reason why the Packers have been relevant and chasing Super Bowls for over the last 30 years. That's not a coincidence. You don't stumble into that. That's planning. That's procedure. That's having data and use of information that allows you to make an informed decision. And I think many of the other clubs ought to truly understand how to build teams around a salary cap that does have some

constraints. But also, I think we've got to become more competitive in how we use salary cap and how you play around with the financials. I'm tired of hearing that because I have one of the top quarterbacks in the league. I can't build a team around. I just, I don't believe it. I just know it's not true because you can. Now you just may have to draft better. You have to develop talent better. You have to get more production out of players who are on rookie contracts, but it can be done. We just have to ask ourselves, do we have the general manager and the coach and the staffing to get that done? Yeah. And I think from a Vikings perspective, Solomon, they have not drafted well enough on the defensive side to be convinced that they're ready to win. And it looks to me more like a long-term thing. And you mentioned, you know, drafting a

quarterback when you don't need one along the way, the Vikings have so often said, no, no, we're competing right now. need a guard we need a center we need to draft these other positions as opposed to taking that quarterback to draft and potentially develop like a Jalen Hurts for example that Philadelphia drafted while they still had Carson Wentz and you know here you are with really no answer uh Gabe as a Minnesotan, how are you feeling about the quarterback situation? You know, it seems like not a date went by where half of the Minnesota population wanted to get rid of Cousins. And then we got into the injury situation. Now, all of a sudden, they look around at the quarterbacks we had, and everyone's like, man, do I wish Cousins was still available, was able to do. So all these little things that he

did, yes, he's not the flashiest quarterback, but he gets the job done. And I think he's grown into, we have a lot more respect for him to see what he's able to do, knowing what happened in the second half of our season. So now the question is, is he going to be the same cousins when he gets back from the injury? And I think in the next couple of months is when we're going to have to answer that question. And if the answer is no, then start moving on. And then the question is, do we end up tapping into draft picks or do we look at veteran

quarterbacks available? There's a whole lot of buzz about Wilson, Russell Wilson coming to the vice. And, you know, the question with that is, is that going to make us any better? We still gonna, we're still going to have money problems going that route as the guy's worth quite a bit of money in his contract. So there's a whole lot of variables that falls into it. And hopefully we will make the right decision.

I was very confident that Gabe knew ball Solomon. I knew that he was going to know ball, right? That's that. That is great breakdown. Let me, let me get to you know, the, the other parts of this, the playoffs here with you, Solomon, the San Francisco 49ers roster is just a behemoth and people want to debate Brock Purdy. And of course, if you weren't a Brock Purdy believer the other night, probably strengthened your case a little bit. And then he led an awesome game winning drive. And so it's a rollercoaster of opinions with Brock Purdy.

But as they go to play the Lions here, they are a massive favorite. I feel like they should be. And the way that Brock Purdy operates that offense, if they have Debo Samuel healthy, I feel like from start to finish, this has been the best team in the NFL. But what do you see when you look at the way that Brock Pur, you have to say, and I know the questions are, well, he's surrounded by a lot of talent at the skilled positions, including an offensive line, but you have Debo Samuel, you have Christian McCaffrey, or Brandon Ayuk, or George Kittle.

Those are some really good players around you. But listen, it didn't seem to work. While it did work well for Jimmy Garoppolo, I think it works better for Brock Purdy. Same talent around him. Purdy performs better, right?

Yards per pass attempt. His touchdown to interception ratio. I mean, the guy is just performing phenomenally. Trey Lance, third overall selection. Same players around him that I've just given you their names, didn't get the same output. So at some point, they got to start to give Brock Purdy credit for what he's been able to accomplish. And I think his timing and rhythm within the offense, I think his feel for the progressionary nature of Kyle Shanahan's offense is really good. I don't think we talk enough about how well he works under center,

which, as you well know, is a staple component of what Kyle Shanahan wants for his offense because it does impact the running game. It does impact the ability to influence the defense when it's time to run it, when it's time for play action shots down the field. All these things are nuanced elements to the quarterback position that Brock Purdy seemed to don't get enough credit for. And I'll tell you why. When you're the 262nd selection in the draft,

the last pick in the seventh round, last pick in the last round, everybody has a draft grade on you. And now they've got a draft grade on you. And now they've got this draft grade and they've got this player performing well above that draft grade. You've got to do one or two things. You've got to admit, oh, I was wrong. And you've got to change that draft grade. Or you stick to the draft grade and say, that's not who he really is.

The slipper's going to come off at some point. He's going to fail sooner or later. Well, guess what? I played, Gabe played. We all fail at some point. Trust me. Tom Brady, I know Tom is the GOAT, but even he had a game or two where somebody said after a six-round pick, see, I told you. I told you. And that's what they did to Kurt Warner. That's what they did to a lot of players who Tony Ramos still hasn't lived up to the dreams, right, because he was an undrafted player. I think people have to understand that Brock Purdy's a good player. They were wrong about him in their draft assessment. He does fit well in Kyle Shanahan's offense,

and he is not just the guy who's a co-pilot to all this great talent around him, that he is like the point guard. And he's dishing and dropping dimes and managing and operating. I don't care if you call him a manager or a game changer because he's both. He's asked to be both and do both within the offense. But I guess he's just not gonna have to keep doing it game in game out year in year out for people to look at the draft grade and say that they were absolutely wrong about him and I'm not really sure what the point of some of the

criticisms are I mean I don't know is he as good as Josh Allen physically uh no Patrick Mahomes no but it's it shouldn't be a penalty to someone that they're in the right situation and you know what had he gone to the worst team in the league yeah he probably wouldn't have been in this spot and he would have been buried and there's probably a lot of quarterbacks who are like him that could have succeeded in the right spot but that doesn't mean he's not doing it and what what i really get frustrated by is when a quarterback throws to a wide open receiver it's like, he was wide open. You had to make the right decision.

You had to make the right check. You had to make the right read of the defense. You had to face whatever pressure that they were sending and then find the guy and throw an accurate pass to him. Like, it's not just handed to Brock Purdy. And even if it is, flags fly forever. He won't have to give back the ring if they win the super bowl, just like, and like you said,

I'm old enough to remember when certain analysts wanted Tom Brady traded to keep Matt Castle because he won there a little bit with the Patriots on the other side. Here's, here's what I want to know from you. And then we'll, we'll get into Gabe story a little bit more. So you played against some of the best of the best in NFL history as a defensive back,

which has to be super frustrating to play against the player of the caliber of Mahomes. And you did it in your era as well. What do you, when you watch through a defensive backs eyes of a quarterback, who's capable of putting up MVP numbers in the playoffs, what, what do you see that someone like myself who didn't play at a high level of football or anything like that would not see about the greatest quarterback in our game? I think what we have to understand, and look, I can make the comparison. I played against Joe Montana in a Super Bowl. I played against Steve Young. I played against John Elway.

And I played against Dan Marino. Now, if you could point to somebody who is much better than those guys, then so be it. But it's all at the same level, right? And these guys are so good that they can beat you even when you take things away from them. And that's what I see in Patrick Mahomes. No matter what it is you think he comes into the game wanting to do, he will find another avenue to beat you. He's going to find another pathway to victory. And that's where I think he's taking his game up a notch. You remember the end of the 2021 season, Cincinnati Bengals went out and they played him at Arrowhead. He made a costly mistake

at halftime, just before the half, where he really should have thrown the ball into the back of the end zone to Travis Kelsey or just thrown it out of bounds. No, he throws it over on the side to Tyreek Hill. Tyreek Hill gets tackled inbounds, no timeouts left. They don't get any points out of that possession. Came back to haunt him in the second half and what did he do he started pressing trying to throw the ball down the field when jesse bates and von bell were saying no we're not letting you throw it over our head they're waiting for interceptions and that's what happened and so he learned from that that you're gonna have to be patient that teams are gonna force big time playmaking quarterbacks who want to go deep on every play like Mahomes does right we're going to force you to check it

down and we're going to see if you can toe that line of patience and discipline to not make a mistake to play mistake free football guess what That's exactly what he did last week against Buffalo. He just took his time. He took what they gave him. He still ended up with eight plays of over 20 yards or more, which was, I thought, phenomenal. He had no turnovers. Of course, McCole Harmon wanted to turn one over,

but he didn't turn it over himself. And that's how they were able to win the game, even though I think they had what 31 fewer offensive plays than the bills. Are you kidding me? The bills had the ball for 15 more minutes. That's nearly a whole quarter more than the chiefs had the ball. So what we're talking about is levels of efficiency, but that's born out of his patience, out of his discipline. As much as he wants to hit the home run, it's like a baseball player who's a home run hitter.

He's swinging for the fences until he sees that he's not getting the pitch he wants, and he's just going to be very selective and patient until he gets the pitch that he wants. And even if he doesn't get it, he'll lay down a bunt. He'll lay down a single because he knows that advances the runner. Patrick Mahomes, and you know his dad is a baseball player, right? And he grew up, so he gets it. I mean, he gets it, but that kind of mindset, he's only 28. Quarterbacks don't come into that kind of thinking until they're 35.

He's like an old soul in a young man's body with a ton of talent and that's why I think this game played on Sunday in the AFC championship game this is about legacy between he and Lamar Jackson it's about um playing for your legacy and adding Super Bowl trophies to your war chest he's he's he's playing the long game and that's what makes him a great player. Yeah, Solomon, what I've really enjoyed about him and Lamar Jackson is watching themselves come into their own as complete quarterbacks, where it's Mahomes and Jackson early in their career doing a lot of running around, making plays and so forth. But now when I watch even Lamar, it's running the offense in dropback situations,

reading defenses, making anticipation throws, and then adding that other stuff. And the same thing with Mahomes where he comes in, it's all deep down the field, deep down the field, crazy playmaking. Now that's only occasional and he's just executing the offense. And both of them are completely unstoppable.

Cannot wait for these games this weekend. So, but I want to, I want to get to Gabe's story. Gabe, you played football. You had some knee problems. Not the first football player to ever have this, but you've had this Macy procedure that has really changed your life.

I'd love to hear about that, man. Yes. My journey has been, it's pretty simple. I did everything to destroy my knees being so active. And also, I'm a former Twin Cities Strongest Man and I'm a professional bodybuilder. So lots of squats, lots of jumping, lots of legwork in there. And, you know, I asked everything out of my knees. And sure enough, I ended up experiencing some bone on bone with cartilage

missing. And looking around, I wanted to have a procedure that was safe and didn't involve too many foreign parts of my body. And I didn't want a knee replacement. I was not a candidate for it. And I wanted to have the longevity of not needing a knee replacement down the line. So I heard about the Macy program, did some research, spoke to my doctor, and came to the conclusion that that would be the best fit for me. Being able to create cartilage using my own cells from my body is just mind-blowing. That type of technology is out there. And so I got both of my knees done, not at the same time, within eight months apart. And the fun, the not so fun part is the recovery portion. But I knew that once I went through that,

there's going to be light at the end of the tunnel. Currently, I'm doing great. I'm feeling good. I'm able to get back to my activities that I love doing. I don't have to think if someone asked me to do something active, can my knees hold up? That thought process is not in my head anymore. And that's probably the most rewarding part of all of this. That's awesome. And usually, Solly, usually you're the best athlete on a podcast like this, but I don't think that's the case here. He's a strong man, body builder, highly competitive individual. And look, you know, what we're talking about, if it works for Gabe and it works for a lot of other athletes, think about the weekend warriors that just want to get back to maybe their weekend activities, whether it's softball, whether it's golf or whether it's skiing or just your other hobbies.

To be able to avoid knee replacement surgery or getting to that point where you're bone on bone. We know that comes with a lot of excruciating pain. To be able to take advantage of the Macy procedure. And again, you can go to the website at macy.com. That's M-A-C-I.com. To find a doctor in your area that performs the Macy procedure, particularly in Minneapolis, which is where Gabe calls home. Look, you can really benefit from this really revolutionary technology. It's got a long history now and a lot of long track record of multiple patients who have great stories, just like Gabe, who can tell you that it is worth the while. And that's why we wanted to come on and talk about it. We know that there are a lot of people out there who are suffering from cartilage damage, at least 12 million people a year seek some kind of procedure where they want to get cartilage repair taken care of. Well, Macy is really, I think, a very safe and effective route.

But then you should go to the website to get more information. That's, again, M-A-C-I. So if you want to look that up, if you have knee issues, then make sure you check that out. Gabe, great to meet another Minnesotan. Really appreciate you taking the time to come on, talk ball, tell your story. Thanks everybody for listening and we will catch you all next time. Thanks guys. All right. Thanks, Matt. All the best to you. Take care.