Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Kalyn Kahler talks about her new podcast series 'Spiraled' and the NFC North

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

ESPN's Kalyn Kahler previews her new podcast "Spiraled" about a former Packer and ex Viking TJ Clemmings getting sucked into a dark world after their career and then they talk QBs, NFC North and Levi Drake Rodriguez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collin here and returning to the show now with the four-letter network, ESPN. Kaylin Kaler. Kaylin, look at us. Who would have thought? We got nice webcams now, good lighting, and you're with ESPN. We've come quite a ways since the first time you came on Purple Insider. How are you? I'm doing well.

I think this is my third job that I've been on here with. So it's doing good. Every two years, somewhere new. Right, right. Exactly. Well, I'm really looking forward to all of your work now at ESPN and your very unique storytelling style, which is one of the reasons that you're on the show is that you have released a podcast that you worked your tail off on called spiraled and i was listening to it last night the story of not just kabir basha bhamila but also including a former viking tj clemmings i don't know how you wrap this up in a sentence there's cults and religion and football players and people destroying their

lives. It's crazy. I listened to the first episode while I was jogging the other night. It's called Spiraled. Go wherever you get your podcasts. I got it on iTunes right here. And hair was raised while listening to this thing. How do you explain to people what this podcast is? Great question. First, I have to say that you make an appearance in, I think it's episode five. I can't remember if it's four or five, but we do get to the story of TJ Clemmings. And we bring you in to tell us all about him and what he was like as a rookie and what his expectations were as part of the Minnesota Vikings. So listeners will definitely want to stay tuned

for in four weeks from now. I think it's episode five when you're on it. I need to double check, but I think it's episode five. So how I would sum it up, and second, thank you so much for having me on to be able to talk about this project because I have been working on it for the last three years and it's been a journey and it's finally done.

And so I just would love for people to actually listen to it. So, you know, they can hear the story because I think my whole team did a really good job with producing it. And it's a narrative style podcast. You're going to hear interviews from a whole different host of characters and sound effects and all of that, all that good stuff. But how I would describe it is, you know, it starts with a former

Packers player, Kabir Bajabiamila. He was the first one who kind of made local news in Green Bay for doing some weird things. He had his two, two of his friends who were part of the same religious group that he had discovered on YouTube. He sent them to his children's Christmas program. It was like a private Christian school in Green green bay they had an annual christmas program he at that point in time had decided that christmas was a pagan holiday and he was very christian before he was very well known in the green bay community kind of a local hero type and all of a sudden he had decided you know what i don't want my kids to be part of this christmas program he'd started a youtube channel and he was like talking about all these things on his youtube channel and his newfound beliefs and he sends two of his

friends to the Christmas program and the headmaster recognizes them and is like huh they shouldn't be here because he had some uncomfortable conversations with Kabir on the phone earlier that day about this you know conflict over his kids being in the Christmas show long story short the friends are there they're carrying weapons without a license they have they both have guns on them to a children's show um essentially it was a school event it wasn't on school property it was at a church but a school event and they also had knives and they were arrested for trespassing and also for carrying guns without

a license to carry and this sent started this whole very weird news cycle about Kabir where he was talking about things he believed now and people were very afraid of him in the Green Bay community because they weren't sure what all this meant. It was different. Parents at the school felt really concerned for their children's safety and threatened by this incident. So then I was like, what is going on here? Like, what does he believe now? What changed? Because he was one of the few players who stay in Green Bay, like for their life. You know, Green Bay is a small market. There aren't a lot of players who decide, oh, this is actually where I want to stay and like live out the rest of my life. And he was one of the players who had decided to do that. So

he had ties all over the town, was very well known, very well respected, did a lot of charity work. And now all of a sudden he was kind of becoming this different person that no one recognized anymore. So I started calling around his former Green Bay teammates and was like, what's going on? And it became really clear really quickly that this was something that a lot of people were concerned about and had a lot of questions about. So in a nutshell, this podcast series is about Kabir and several other former NFL players, one of whom is TJ Clemmings, a former Minnesota Viking, who had very high expectations as a Viking and never met them. It's about what happened to them in retirement, which is that they went on these you know they

they were searching for something because they had a void that the NFL was filling for them for so many years and when their careers ended a lot of them without you know without their say in it Kabir was cut from the Packers he could have continued on and played for another team and and he chose not to so he had a little bit bit of agency in that decision, but you know, TJ Clemmings kind of became a journeyman who barely, who barely really played after his Vikings time and had a lot of injuries. And so it wasn't really in his control when his NFL career ended. So these guys are kind of searching for, you know,

something to fill the void and they're searching for that masculine strong male energy that that type of community kabir said several times that he felt like christianity was too feminine for him um and also youtube is a big part of it there's you can find anything on youtube these days you can and you can easily maybe quicker than you ever could in the past you can start believing something new and start changing the way that you live because of YouTube, like so much quicker than you previously could have. Because the pastor that they all follow, he uses YouTube as a main platform to reach people. And he's got several hundred thousand followers on his YouTube channel. So there's a lot of themes like outside of sports that I think are interesting in here, you know, religious extremism,

switching for identity, YouTube radicalization, hyper-masculinity. Yeah, I mean, it was just probably the craziest story that I've ever reported. Well, first, I absolutely marvel at your ability to capture all of this because all the things that you were just going through with the background. That's a lot. That's a lot. And this is what you do so masterfully as a reporter. And I respect so much is to take such complicated things and present them in a way that you can understand how he ended up going spiraling into this point in his life. It also makes you think a lot about how people can be radicalized in the way that Kabir was.

And I want to hear a little bit more about TJ Clemmings. You mentioned that we talked for this and I'm excited to hear myself as I'm jogging. You sound great. Oh, I do. Great. Thank you. I put a lot of thought into, I was like, I don't want to screw this up for you because I know this is going to be something a lot of people listen to. But people know TJ Clemmings here, to put it bluntly, as a bad left tackle who got their quarterbacks hit a lot. He really struggled.

And what was noticeable to me that I talked with you about is how TJ Clemmings was thought of as this athletic freak who had the potential to develop into something really special in the NFL. But the problem was his confidence was just destroyed and especially destroyed by his head coach, Mike Zimmer, who was extremely critical as being polite. But he was extremely, extremely critical of TJ, and he never made the progress that they

expected. And is it wrong to make a connection between the failure to become what you expect to become in the NFL and the eventual radicalization? Because obviously this doesn't happen to everyone who fails. Some people just say, all right, well, I'll go sell insurance or just live my life. But it seemed to have a profound impact on him that he struggled so much in the NFL. Yeah, I think it's definitely in his case, part of his story and part of one of the many factors, I think that led him to this because his wife, his ex-wife now, and I should have said when I said Kabir's wife, it's also his ex-wife now as well. But TJ's ex-wife, Christiana, she sat for an interview for this podcast,

which was awesome because she has a really interesting perspective as well and she really went into detail about how they started dating i think with his rookie season um in in minnesota and she really went into detail about how hard it was for him to come home after a game and be feeling like you know i know i didn't play well and then go on to social media and onto Twitter and then to be told that again, like 20 more times by random strangers. And so she really said that that had a big impact on him and was like, it wasn't one of those things that he could kind of turn off and move on from. Like that was something he really struggled with. And so I know that, you know, hearing the comments from his coaches were probably part of that as well. And I think that was definitely part of what he struggled with.

And in his case, she really also felt like, because I didn't get to talk to TJ for this. I just talked to her. I have talked to Kabir, but I haven't gotten a chance to interview TJ. So she felt like too, like TJ had some injuries. One of which was a concussion that she just felt like it kind of changed him, changed his personality a little bit and like made him more reactive, more emotional sort of just, yeah, like reacting to things more than maybe he would in the past.

And so I think for him, that was part of it too, but definitely like the expectations that he had. And in his case as well, it's like he, I think he was retired before he was, I think he was like 28 when his career ended. So that's really young. And when he retired, he didn't really have anything else that he wanted to do. And I know the two of them together, they owned some land, they started farming, and that was kind of what he was doing to fill his time. They had children and they were trying to raise some cows, I believe, and grow crops and things like that. And like, that was filling his time. But he also, I know, you know, the way that she describes his mood, he was very, like, kind of lost and very unmotivated. And he was actually applying for

that disability. I think he was applying for the, what is it called? TTD, the total temporary, total temporary. I don't know. One of the disabilities that you can qualify for as a former player where you are going to get a monthly payment, essentially, he was going through the process to do that because he felt like he couldn't hold a job, that he was injured. I think he had knee problems back problems because of his physical injuries and because of um i i think he would he would have said you know some of his mental um health problems too like he felt like he couldn't hold a job and so he

actually went and this is what's so interesting about his story is he went to a rehab facility in Colorado, where if you are an NFL player and you're trying to qualify for TTD or the disability claim, a lot of those lawyers will tell you, you should go participate in one of these programs because it's going to make your claim look better. So he went and participated in a rehab program in Colorado. And I think it was maybe two months long or six weeks, multiple weeks. He was there. And Christiana at the time was pregnant with triplets, but it was towards the beginning of her pregnancy. So she was like, go now because I'm going to need you later, obviously when the babies

come. So he went and while he was there is when he found straightway, um, through YouTube, uh, she thinks through YouTube and he got connected with Kabir after he found straightway because they didn't know each other previously, but he had found, um, straightway on YouTube and then gets connected to Kabir. And now I'm not sure if he's living at Kabir's house, but he spent a lot of time at Kabir's house, which is one of the straightway locations in Green Bay. But anyway, it was while he was at this rehab center with nothing to do except, you know,

go to some therapy sessions during the day, but you're away from your family. He was away from his two other children. He was away from his wife. And that is when he started watching all the YouTube videos. And Christiana said there was one night where he would call her to say their bedtime prayers every night. And he was late calling her. And so she had to call him. And she was like, what's going on?

Like, what were you doing? And he was like, oh, I was just on the phone with someone. And it turned out to be someone with straight weight. And he was speaking about, you know, he was learning more about the group. And by the time he came back home, he was sharing it with her. And he was like, we need to go visit. And she was like, I'm not going to visit. I don't just something about this is not sitting well with me. She watched the videos. She,

she even bought like a long dress because the women dress very modestly. She bought the clothes that she would need to wear to go visit. I think they were going to go to the Green Bay property that Kabir is in charge of. And then she was just like, you know, I just don't feel right about this. She reached out to her pastor. She talked with some other people that were close to them. And pretty much everybody was telling her, like, this is not something that we would recommend that you do.

And so TJ went without her. And when he came back, he said, you know what? I'm going for good. I need to go there. And yeah, their story is kind of wild because she ended up having to kind of run away from him in the same way that Eileen runs away with her kids from Kabir.

Christiana had a very similar experience because she thought TJ mightileen runs away with her kids from kabir christiana had a very similar experience because she thought tj might be coming to take her kids to green bay and that was very scary for her so definitely you guys are going to want to listen to the episode christiana because it's just it's just wild because it's like these, their husbands just turn into people that they don't recognize anymore. And they have to, they, both of these women, Christiana and Eileen, like felt they needed to leave for their own and their children's safety. Yeah. Even after one episode, I was like, whoa, I needed, I need a deep breath here because

of everything that this woman went through with Kabir. And then I can imagine with TJ Clemmons, his wife and his family as well. And it just seems like what straight way has done is taken advantage of people who are vulnerable, which is NFL players after their careers, I think are in a very vulnerable position, especially,

I mean, Kabir was so successful, but both sides of the coin can have the same issue where you have so much success and everyone loves you. And then that light goes out and everyone moves on for him. And with TJ, it's all unrealized potential and such a miserable experience as an NFL player. And TJ would not have made enough money either to, uh, you know, have this career set up and life set up for himself. So he would have needed to work and ended up potentially in some financial struggle after that. And it just seems like this is a situation where someone could get pulled into. It is a mind blowing story, honestly, super gripping, incredible reporting done by you. I'm enjoying it. And I know that Vikings fans or anybody listening

will be really interested in it as well. Wrap it up in a sentence form. Like, what do you want people to take away from it? Yeah, I want people to take away, like just kind of, I guess, an understanding of how these things happen. Because I really, I think everyone thinks I'm way too smart to ever be sucked into something crazy. But honestly, I feel

like it's really like it could happen to anyone at any point. And I think it's really, I think like the process, like breaking down the process of how it happens is a really fascinating and valuable exercise. Also, I just hope you enjoy listening to it. or were involved with straightway as a kid or at an earlier point in their lives and they talk about their experience and how how much it uh negatively impacted their lives um for the rest of their lives like there's one man who i spoke to who um like i'm so thankful that well there's two men that i spoke to i'm so thankful for both of them for sharing their stories um you know and one grew up there as a kid and he didn't finish high school. He was homeschooled there and literally barely had an education because it was not really school.

And he was gay growing up there and just was facing that homophobic teachings every single day. And he's now, he got his GED. He has a job. He's like gainfully employed, but he still has, you know, panic attacks that he faces like pretty regularly because of his childhood there. And then another one who as an adult had chosen to move there

and had given them all of his money that he never got back either. He is like, it's really sad. Like he is just like so embarrassed that he ever did this. And then he ever moved to a straight way community. And then he ever believed what they were selling him, which at the time, because he moved there in 2000, they said it was the end of the world. Like, so he thought, oh, I have to go because like, I got to be around like-minded people when the world ends. And so he's just like so embarrassed about it. And he's like, I don't want any of my employers to ever know that

like I did this. And you know, he's very, he has trust issues. Like he really can't trust anybody who comes into his life. And I mean, it's been 25 years, almost 25 years since he went there and he left, he's only there for, I think six months or so. And he is still like, so impacted by this 20 years later.

So I think it's a, they would say they participated to warn people about that as well. And so I think that's one of the things you can take from it too. No, it's a great point that anybody can be vulnerable to something and everybody thinks that they can't. Right. Um, so that's a, that's a great point. Um, you want to talk about some football?

It's like an awkward transition. That was very heavy. I don't really. It's really awkward. I mean, you're in Chicago. You've followed the Bears for so long. They've got a quarterback. I mean, I feel like I have to know how you're feeling about the NFC North and the Chicago Bears.

Yeah. I mean, this division is, honestly, I find it really hard to predict what is going to happen other than I think I've kind of removed the Vikings from being one of the top teams, I think. I think before JJ was hurt, I feel like it was more of a potential there. And I do think Sam Darnold is going to be fine. So I think he'll be solid.

But I think I had more expectations for them, obviously, before the injury. So I would say with Caleb Williams and the Bears, I am actually very optimistic. And their first game is against the titans so i think the bears offense versus the titans defense is going to have a great game i think it's going to be i think like the bears bears fans are going to freaking lose their mind and then the next week they have the texans on friday night football and i think that might be a wake up call. That's kind of how I see the early start of the season going for the Bears.

But I do think that Caleb, you know, what we saw, what Caleb showed in the preseason was really encouraging and really exciting. And like a lot of that out of structure stuff he did, you know, it looked Mahomes-ian. And so I think that is, that is super cool. Like, I don't, that's a terrible word, cool, but it was awesome. Like you get like, you know, stoked, you get like juiced up about that. And then some of the more operating within the structure things I think is

going to come with time. I think we saw him struggle a little bit with that in the preseason because, you know, in that Bengals in the second game, the last game he played in against the Bengals defense, I think there were three three and outs to start that game. And that was not the first team defense that he was facing when he made plays finally. So I think, you know, it's tough to know until we really see him in a regular season game, like how he's going to operate against a first string defense. Because obviously you don't want him to be out of structure every play of the game. So I think that's the question probably that I think has not been answered about Caleb. It's like, how quickly is he going to be able to, you know, against a real NFL defense, operate the offense within the structure?

Oh my God, a bird like just bounced off my window. Sorry, that was crazy. I was like, oh my God, I'm on the 39th floor. Like, hope he's okay. I'm glad I Oh my God, I'm on the 39th floor. Like hope he's okay. I'm glad I didn't hear the thud. I, we couldn't hear that on this side. I just saw your response. I heard it. I was like, what? It was a small bird. And I don't think he, I don't think it was like a death blow, but he totally bounced off.

Okay. So that's my thoughts on the bears. As far as like so packers i think jordan love is gonna be is gonna build off of last year i think they're gonna be a really good team um their quarterback situation very interesting what they just did trading for malik willis and um i think they released sean clifford right i, I would assume that he would be going back possibly to the practice squad there because I don't know who their third quarterback would be. But that was interesting to me, see him maybe get a second chance in a different team. Yeah, no, I think Jordan Love is going to be, you know, just as exciting as he was last season.

So, um, I'm interested to see that. And then the Lions, I was just at the Lions camp last week, actually for one of their last, um, preseason practice or training camp practices. And, um, you know, they look good. They look really good too. So, uh, I don't know. I kind of feel like the Lions are gonna, but then they were on the SI cover and I was like oh no I was like oh no they're totally cursed but honestly the Lions I think I would play at the

top of my NFC North Power rankings because they returned Ben Johnson. I mean, nobody really saw that coming until the weirdest coach hiring. I don't even know how to describe what happened to him. And I'm still not sure that I even understand it to be able to describe it because either he just decided he didn't want to be a head coach or the teams that were interviewing him were like okay your money demands if those were true i don't know what was true but there was so much weird noise around his interviewing um so whatever happened doesn't matter because the lions got him back and i do think that was huge for them to return both coordinators, honestly. And, you know, they just locked up Jared Goff for a little bit longer.

And I am a big Jared Goff fan. I know that there are a lot of haters of him out there, but I am a JG fan. So I do think the Lions, to me, are at the top of the NFC North. And then the Bears are really a wild card, I think, because we know the defense will be good, and it's just going to depend on how quickly Caleb Williams can assimilate

to operating an NFL offense, which really could go any way. Like, I never want to put my money on a rookie quarterback. And the Vikings have Levi Drake Rodriguez. So I was getting to that. Don't worry. I was getting to that. Well, why don't we, why don't we go there? Let me ask you something real quick before I get to Levi Drake Rodriguez, because what

a pick for you to do prospect x with him uh but i just want to know your comparative feelings at the same time frame of mitch trubisky and justin fields like did you feel the same way about trubisky and fields as you do about williams i did not um i think the fans did um i think bears fans definitely had the same level of optimism um i didn't and part of it with caleb is that the roster around him is so much better than i mean actually the trubisky era roster was pretty good i will say i mean he did have alan robinson and alan robinson at that point was in his prime. And I, I think about Allen Robinson all the time. Cause I'm just like, oh my God, he could have had a great, I mean, he had a fine career, but he could have had a great career had he played with a good

quarterback. Cause he literally never did. Anyways. I think the roster around caleb is better than it's a lot better than it was for justin fields and i still think it's even better possibly than it was with mitch trubisky so i think like that's why i can feel more optimistic because i'm like okay that defense is good he has Romo Dunzey he has Keenan Allen he has DJ like there are plenty of playmakers on the offense so the offensive line depth I think is a concern um that hopefully won't become an issue for the Bears but I could see that becoming an issue, just the offensive line depth and strength of that offensive line. But he's got the playmakers. So I think that's what gives me the optimism. Wait,

I was going to ask you Vikings. So Vikings quarterback room is Sam Darnold. And then sure is. And then who else? Who's the backup? Yeah. Nick Mullins and, uh,

Jaron Hall. And I was curious to see if they would go hunting for any of their backups, but it does not seem that as the case. So if Sam Darnold gets hurt and I have to think he would need to get hurt to be benched, then it would be the Nick Mullins and or Jaron Hall show which we saw a little bit of last year and right was pretty wild but was not really pretty right and that's kind of where we're at yeah yeah the Vikings have had some bad luck with quarterback injuries recently and

we're kind of story right now about um it's going to run next week about the trend of quarterbacks starting games per season going up so last year there were 67 quarterbacks that started games josh jobs actually counted twice because he started for two different teams and like we were tracking unique starters so like for every team who were your starters and who did you do so he actually counts in two instances which is kind of fascinating but um so there was 67 the year before it was a record high 69 the year before that was 62 i think and at first i was like oh it's just because they added a 17 game simple as that but then if you if you take the average from like 2000 to 2020 and then then project, okay, well, how much is one more game, and then you multiply that,

it should be an average of like 59 quarterbacks, but the average for the last three years have been 66. So it is higher than you would have thought. And so I kind of just did a story about like, why is that? What does it mean? Does anybody think about their quarterback rooms differently? And I wanted to talk to Kweisi because I was like, okay, he experienced this last year, you know, and made a move to go out and get someone. And then, you know, I wanted to, like, talk to him about that. But then literally, like, two days later, JJ got hurt. And I was like, all right, they're not going to do this now because it's like they're in the same situation again. So I didn't get to talk to him for the story, but the Vikings were one of two teams that

had to start four quarterbacks last season. Do you have a theory? Do you have a theory of why this, this would be? Cause I remember you and I talked about this a little bit because we both enjoy tracking journey quarterbacks and so forth. And I've always thought it was really big to have a good backup quarterback and worth paying for, which the Vikings aren't presently, but Case Keenum certainly convinced me that it's a good

idea to have that guy as a backup, but it doesn't really stand to reason. Everyone talks about how they protect quarterbacks so much more. You can't fall on the quarterback like you used to. And yet it doesn't, I don't know if it's a lot of benching so much as it is just injuries. Yeah. I wasn't able to, that was the one thing I wanted to try to do is like separate out how many of these guys were bench versus injured,

but that ends up being like hard to sort and like a data set. Like it, it, you can't, like, I would need to just go back and like pick every scenario and then like Google and remember what happened, you know, like, so that's difficult, but I think there's definitely more injuries. Anecdotally, I think it's more injury. And if you talk to people around the NFL, they're like, yeah, most of these are injuries. But also I think one of the trends you see is like okay the starter goes down and then the backups are either physically not prepared because they haven't been in games right like and especially if it's late in the season they haven't practiced with the first team in a long time um so they they either get hurt as well because they haven't had action and they're not physically prepared

or they're getting benched because they're not good um or both are happening in some scenarios and so uh but on top of that so you have the 17th game. That could be a factor because the seasons are longer. You have more flexible injured reserve rules, meaning if you have a minor injury, you might just go on IR for four games instead of like gutting through. In the past, a quarterback might have been like, all right, I've got like an ankle sprain, but you know what? I'm going to just keep playing because we we can't we don't want to shelve you for the rest of the season now they can come back off of ir um also a tougher concussion

protocol um two years ago with tua they really cracked down on a concussion protocol they made a change to it and now like i talked to josh johnson it was actually really interesting i talked to him and he was in that niners game in 2022 when they ran out of quarterbacks and Brock Purdy had to go back into the game and couldn't throw a pass. Otherwise, it was going to have to be Christian McCaffrey, who also wasn't going to throw a pass. And I talked to Josh and he was in the concussion protocol. That's why he had to leave the game.

And he was telling me that in the locker room, he was really fighting against it. And he was like, I didn't want to get out of the game. He's like, cause I thought I was fine. Like I didn't see what they saw. And he kind of like sat up for a minute and he was a little unsteady when he sat up, which is why I think they pulled him to go through the concussion protocol. And then one of the tests that they had him do,

he thought he was going to vomit. So then was like all right like fine you know but i think in the past that might have been something he could have pushed through um and then also part of this is the development or lack of development of third quarterbacks because we just saw a couple days ago that the PA vetoed an update to the emergency QB3 which would have allowed teams to pull that guy from the practice squad and actually it's a good thing that the NFLPA vetoed that because teams would have just never promoted their third quarterback to the active roster then and then those guys aren't making money and also so the the crisis that's going on with the qb3 development is that in so i looked this up as part of my story too which is

really interesting and after the 2010 season they got rid of the emergency third quarterback freebie spot because back then you could only you could have 45 active players on game day and then the 46th was like for your quarterback specifically. And it had to be quarterback. You couldn't be like, oh, it's my offensive lineman this week. It had to be quarterback. So the NFL got rid of that after 2010 when they just increased the game day actives to 46.

So then teams were like, well, I'd rather have an extra offensive lineman. Or I'd rather have an extra whoever who's actually going to see the field in a way that my third quarterback probably isn't. So then teams after that just stopped rostering three quarterbacks and would have that third quarterback on their practice squad, which is still good. Like you're in the building, you're at practice, but you can be poached by any team at any point and so unless you're protected and so the the job of a third quarterback has become really nomadic and like they're not in the same system for multiple years for the most part it's uncommon if they are and these are guys

who are probably six seven draw and pick undrafted guys that are kind of falling through the cracks whereas in the past um i think those guys might have gotten a little bit more development. Because in the year 2000, every team had three quarterbacks on their 53-man roster, every single team. And then last year, it decreased to the point where only 15 had it for week one. I was just looking at week one because week one is kind of a good signal as to what your intentions are for the rest of the season. And I just looked up up cut down stats 14 teams kept three quarterbacks for roster

cut down um which i don't know if that's a fair comparison to week one because it's like you know things change up until that point like it's not like a fixed thing um but i think it that shows you like which teams are like protective over their third because they think their third is good. And they think their third is going to get picked up by somebody else. If they were to release their third and, and wait to get them on the practice squad, like they might not be able to do that. So I think that's part of it too, of like, okay, no one's developing quarterbacks anymore, unless you drafted them in the first two rounds, essentially. Yeah, I was thinking about how this is exactly

when you come out to Vikings or something or we're at the combine together. This is like the exact conversation we've been having anyway. Yeah, right. So we really went down a rabbit hole there. I just said the name Nick Mullins and then we ended up here like 20 minutes later.

Here we are. But I do want to bring up before you go and I appreciate all your time and everything, Levi, Drake Rodriguez, prospect X. How did you end up picking him? Because you did a huge story prospect X. You went through the entire process with him, did not reveal his identity. Then the Vikings end up picking him. He looked really good in training camp.

He got first team reps at times and then during preseason he was an impact player the guys got violence to his game and he is a very unique character and uh i mean i think people will bring up like john randall or something but there's a little bit of that vibe of like this crazy energetic guy he's crazy that i mean it has to be cool for you to have picked prospect X, a guy who ends up making the 53 as a seventh round pick. Yeah, it was very cool. Um, I saw the quote from, was it Casey the other day who was like, his hair's flying around. You just see that on the table. Yeah. Oh, Connell said that. Okay. That was so funny because I was like, it is like, I think having

long hair, I just kind of developed this theory that yesterday based off of Levi, I'm like, okay, if I'm a pass rusher or anyone on defensive line, like grow, like, I feel like growing your hair long makes you even look better at what you're doing because it's like whipping around. Like, you know what I mean? It's like whipping around. So it's like, what if you're not actually moving that quickly? But your hair makes it look like you are, right? It's almost an illusion.

Like, with him, he really is because he's, like, very strong and has a lot of really exciting speed, like, when and like efficiency i think too and so but yeah i was like i think having hair is actually really helpful for like your your image for like how good you look on tape anyways but the way i uh the way i found him was um you know i just i started asking for names in like right after the combine, when the combine list comes out and you can know, okay, this is who was invited to the combine. This is who wasn't, um, I'm asking for names and his name came up. I don't remember who exactly gave him to me, but somebody did. And then, um, I think it came up in another conversation that was like completely unrelated because I was talking to his agent is Everett Levy, who is Brian Levy or Levy. I might be saying it wrong.

Brian, his dad has been an agent for a really long time. And I was talking to Brian about something else entirely. And then Brian was like, I was like, you got anybody good in the draft? And he's like, Levi Drake. And I and i was like wait i've heard this name before and then he was like i've never been at a workout like his you like it was unreal he's like there were you know however many teams were there there were a lot of teams that were there and he's like this kid is getting drafted for sure and he like wasn't at the combine and he was at he made his name at the um fcs game and then got called up to the tropical bowl which is slightly bigger and so he was telling me all

these things about him and i'm like oh my gosh okay send me some videos send me send me videos send me some clips and i see the video of him and i'm like okay i think this is a really good pick and then also you just kind of know too like um with that position um they because i'm looking for someone who's going to be drafted like obviously i want them to make the team and like have a career and but for the purposes of prospect x i like really and i'm trying to prove a point of like this under the radar hidden guy is going to get drafted so with him i was like like, I just, I want to make sure he gets drafted. But then, you know, I'm watching some of his

practice tape. I watched some of his like game highlights and his workout film. And I'm like, oh yeah, like he's vicious. Like this is, this is good, you know? And so then I went there to actually spend time with him and he's just like this crazy personality like in a really good way like super infectious charismatic um he will he talks about this he has um ADHD I believe and football has been like his way to like focus like and his outlet of his parents were just like do every sport because he was had way too much energy to be like in the house and um you know his mom tells a really good story about um his high school counselor being like she met with the high school counselor and she was like college

isn't for everybody mrs rodriguez which is like so yeah wow i, I kind of, I appreciate like the, the realism, I guess, of like wanting to like be honest with somebody, but she was really upset about that. And she was like, no, my son is going to finish college. Cause she didn't, her and her husband did not, they went and they, neither of them, I think finished their degrees and afterwards have since worked on certificates and continuing education, but at the time did not finish their college education. So that was super important to her. And so she was like, you're going to college.

And he was like, okay. And so he went to a Bible college first that was like tiny and then transferred to Texas A&M Commerce, which is still tiny. But he was able to get more eyes on himself there and that's what i think is most uh like most encouraging about him is like he hasn't he's still like really raw like the level of coaching that he was receiving um you know he was an offensive lineman in high school so it's like you know the amount of time he's actually been playing on the defensive line is like not that much and he was at freaking southwestern assemblies of god like two years ago you know so like that's exciting i think about him is i think like his

ceiling is really high um and he struggles against the run but but on passing down, like, let's go, you know? I think, so I think he's got a high ceiling and he's just been so much fun to watch. So I'm excited to see, like, do you think he'll get like real playing time? I do. I actually do because he's kind of playing the role of, I know, right. Of Jerry Tillery, who was first round pick uh kind of bounced around a little bit and his looked pretty good for them but i think they like to have a backup who plays a very similar role to the starter and if anything happens to jerry tillery or they could also create different

packages for pass rush based on matchups we saw flores flores sometimes reached into the practice squad for certain guys because he just felt like well what they do well is not what this guard blocks well against and I think we will see him it is nice though to have a guy who fewer people have heard of his college than mine which I because I went to a small d3 school and I'm like a few more people may have heard of my college than than him but it's a scout's dream to run across some guy at Texas A&M commerce and be like, wait, I think this is actually a guy. And somebody said to me, when you see soccer nets in the back of the tape, this guy better be really good. He really stand out when, uh, the football field doesn't have, you know, the full stadium there,

there's soccer nets in the back. So that's a Levi Drake Rodriguez, but he does have infectious energy and you know how, you know, these press conferences and stuff, we try to glean little things off of them. But when you just ask a coach about, so, you know, how's he doing? There's like a smile that comes across their face. Like, Oh yeah, yeah. He's they really, they love his energy. So I'll be interesting to see how he develops to be this far along for year one i thought you'll make practice squad that kind of

thing but way farther along than i think we expected so it was a really cool piece that you were able to do behind the scenes and now he's here and we uh get to see where his career goes so oh man we cover a lot of ground here we went went from a cult to backup quarterbacks to a prospect. Yeah. Just, just your regular, uh, regular podcast.

Uh, but I want to say before I let you go, I am super happy for you. I know that we have joked around that you change jobs every year. So, but, uh, this one,

this one is big and this one is exciting at ESPN. So congratulations again. It is well-deserved and I always enjoy chatting with you about the fascinating stuff that you're reporting on. So thanks again. And the podcast is spiraled. I'm listening to it. I'm in it eventually. So make sure you go check that out. It's tremendously, tremendously done. So thanks again, Kalen. And we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much.