Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Kevin Seifert is buying the Vikings' QB plan (and doesn't believe in kicker curses)

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Kevin Seifert talk about what they are buying from the Minnesota Vikings, from the plan to start Sam Darnold to the offensive line to the kicking Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Kevin Seifert. And Kevin, we're going to play a fun game today because it is June 19th and there is not a whole lot of big old breaking news. And thanks to Justin Jefferson, we don't have to worry about that and the contract extension during this summertime. So what I want to go through is the things that the Vikings are selling to us and the fans to believe in this team going forward and whether we are actually buying or selling those things. And I'm going to start in a pretty obvious place.

Are you buying Sam Darnold as QB one, Kevin O'Connell reluctantly revealed that he is the starter for the beginning of training camp. But are you buying into the idea that this team really believes that Sam Darnold could take themselves somewhere this year? Well, I think it's two separate things there. I do. I a hundred percent believe that he's the quarterback heading into camp. And I think common sense tells us he's the quarterback heading into camp, and I think common sense tells us he's the quarterback in week one, assuming health. I guess it's not out of the question that J.J. McCarthy could make so much progress that that would become more of a question, but for right now, to me, that's the obvious situation. Now, do the Vikings think that it is that because the Vikings think Sam Darnold

can have a career renaissance? I'm sure at this early stage, there's some hope for that. He's done nothing to tell you like he that definitely can't happen. But there also hasn't been much that's happened so far either. This has all been, you know, most most of his passes have been on air. You know, there certainly hasn't been a pass rush that he's had to worry about. All the things that sort of lead to any quarterback struggling, he hasn't had to demonstrate a proficiency against yet. But I think that they still have a reasonable hope that he can play as well as he's ever played and at least give them some breathing room to get McCarthy ready in a more orderly

fashion than would have happened if there was no veteran on the roster. So yes, I'm buying it, but also with the caveat that he hasn't really had an opportunity to play his way out of that position yet. What I have trouble deciding whether I'm buying is that they think he can really have this career surge. We can't even call it a resurgence because it's never surged. So I would have to go back to college, say he could be as good as he was relatively in college. Yeah. Or just even somewhat live up to the hype about him coming out in the draft. There was a lot of discussion even at that time that he should have been the number one draft pick over Baker Mayfield and so forth, and then has just never reached that point. And there are examples that you can find when you go through

history of guys that didn't have a whole lot of evidence that they could ever be good. And then we're suddenly good. And the connection is always supporting cast coaching every single time, like even a Kerry Collins or something that kind of flames out in Carolina, reemerges with the New York giants. And then it's good coaching. It's a good team. It's a good sporting cast. I think I'm leaning toward buying that until I don't have to anymore.

Um, but what I get asked all the time when I go on other people's podcasts and stuff is like, what week is McCarthy going to start? So would you be buying that it's possible that he could start the whole season or do you think that that's, that that's a low possibility? No, I mean, I, I, I think it's a, it's a reasonable possibility. It might be less than 50, 50, but I think like it should be talked about as, as, as close to an ideal scenario as the Vikings could have assuming everybody's

healthy and he, because he's playing the entire year, not because JJ McCarthy is so terrible in practice or got hurt or whatever, but because he's playing well, Sam Darnold's playing well enough that they think that, that, that that's their best quarterback on the roster for the whole year. And so like, that would be a plus plus for him and for the Vikings. It's just you, I mean, there's only so far you can go in saying, you know, great surroundings, great coaching. Like the other part of that to me is, you know, whether it was Kerry

Collins, or I think you talked about Geno Smith the other day, a couple other guys. Like those guys were just – were also ready, you know, at that point. You know, they had maybe not been ready. Maybe they had – like even if they'd had great coaching and great people around them in their early days in both cases with the Jets, maybe they still would have played the way they played and not – and played themselves out of jobs. So that's the third part. Like you can have the great surroundings. You can have the great coaching.

You can have the pressure, relatively pressure free situation of just being a random free agent off the street. But you still have to be ready yourself. And that's the question Sam's going to have to answer for everybody. Is he ready to do those things and ready to have a career renaissance and capitalize on the advantages that he has because all that stuff will mean nothing if he's still seeing ghosts you know as as he famously said or just like not doing the basic things better than he did before so with uh jj mccarthy i've talked about my observations of OTAs and minicamp and so forth, and I'm not sure how much those are going to matter because training camp is so much different. They implore us to call it the learning phase. And I tend to agree with them that I would actually prefer not to, if we were being totally

rational about this and not doing a daily podcast, I'd be like, well, why don't we just kind of wait and see what it looks like in training camp. But since that's not how the world works, I've talked about that. He looks like he has quite a ways to go. What do you expect to see hit from him in training camp after observing the practices and OTAs in mini camp? Like, do you think that what we saw will just build and build

and build and that he'll give a run for his money to Sam Darnold? Or do you think it will look kind of similar where he's more with the backups and we're not going to see real competition there? Yeah, net net, I think it's going to be relatively similar spot, but maybe for different reasons. Like some of the things that we saw him do that you would love to not see any quarterback do, you know, hit the ground, have the ball hit the ground against air, you know, just missing people that are just not even being covered. You know, let's say those things get smoothed out.

There's a whole other level of things that come up when you're in pads and when the defense and especially Brian Fl, is actively scheming against you and guys are, from a physical standpoint, trying to win jobs for themselves by making you look bad. And all those things that happen in training camp that don't happen in the spring practices, per se, those things could level everything out. So I don't want to limit limit him or, you know, have all the McCarthyites,

you know, feel like we're not giving him a fair shot, but like I really would be pleasantly surprised if we see him make a true run to be the starter in week one, I I'm going into it thinking like, you know, we're going to watch him. We're going to measure progress. We're going to see where he's at, but like, there's no immediate expectation both from what they've said publicly and what they're saying privately, I think as well, to think that you could reasonably expect something that dramatic to happen in

that in a relatively short period of time, assuming everybody's healthy this summer. Okay. One more quarterback one for me. You also have a list that you want to ask me if I'm buying. And then the rest of my questions are much more silly, I think, than this. But with McCarthy, Kevin O'Connell kind of detailed the other day what he wants to see from McCarthy in order for him to make a run at Sam Darnold. And the biggest thing is just mastering the offense.

It's very hard to do. And McCarthy was talking about the learning phase and how difficult it could be where you have one good day, one bad day, and all the different footwork that he's got to learn versus what he was doing in college, which is why I always kind of chuckle when people say, oh, well, he came from a pro system. Like there's no real, there's no emulating this. And so everybody finds that out as soon as they step on the NFL field.

Like, Oh yeah, this is actually nothing like college. But do you buy that Kevin O'Connell will stick with that standard and that standard only for playing JJ McCarthy, or could there be a situation where they go two and four or something and the Darnold play is what it's been in the past and O'Connell gets frustrated, i.e. playing Jaron Hall last year and just says, you know what, it's time to play J.J. McCarthy. I wonder if that's why Nick Mullins is still here

because I kind of thought the first two years of the O'Connell, Kwesi Dofamensa era there, I think they only carry three quarterbacks at any given time. And I think that was because in O'Connell's quarterback mind, like that's how you can't any more than that. And you're losing reps and there's just not enough reps to give out. And like, you don't want to give away anybody that you think you might have a future,

but absent of that, you don't just need a fourth arm just to have a fourth arm. So part of me wondered is after they drafted McCarthy, if they would let Nick Mullins go and let him pursue a job somewhere else. But he's still here and they're still talking about him. And I wonder if that's a hedge against what you just talked about. Sam Darnold is not playing well. The team is not playing well. The team is not playing well. It's a natural time to get McCarthy in, but he's not ready based on what O'Connell's sort of internal checklist of things would be. So then you're sort of breaking your your commitment to the extent that you can make it by saying, well, what are you supposed to do?

You know, you know, Donald's not playing well. We've got to put McCarthy in. And then you're talking about all the things and all the damage that can be done by putting him in before he has mastered it or before he's in a position where his inexperience is not going to really weigh him down more than it otherwise should. So maybe that's why Nick Mullins is here, that, you know, if they ever get in that situation and Donald's not cutting it, maybe you have Nick Mullins do that.

I have not had anybody tell me that, but I think there's got to be a reason other than just that they like him as a person, that he's still here, and that they're sharing reps among four quarterbacks when you have at least two young ones that you'd like to be getting as many reps as you can. And a starter who you need to get as many reps as you can because you haven't played him. He hasn't played in the scheme before.

I could also see Nick Mullins being QB2 very early in the season just to start the year until they feel like McCarthy is ready to be QB2. And then people will definitely be very upset. But then maybe we can remind them that Jordan ready to be QB too. And then people will definitely be very upset, but then maybe we can remind them that Jordan love was not QB too. It was Tim Boyle for a while behind Aaron Rogers because they felt he understood the offense better. And I go back and I don't know why I was thinking about this,

but I was thinking about this earlier today is that when Dante Culpepper was drafted in 1999, I'm pretty sure he was QB three that whole year. Like he had he had been drafted and he was number 12 or 11. And he had a really bad preseason, like the indications in the preseason were that it just, you know, he just wasn't ready yet. And so Randall Cunningham was the starter that year and they had Jeff George on the roster as well. And they kept him as number two. And eventually Jeff George ends up playing, and Dante didn't play a snap, or maybe he got like a kneel down or something,

and that was intentional. Like they thought they had a competitive team, and they also didn't think Dante was ready, and he spent that whole year as number three in a year where like Donovan McNabb was starting, and Tim Couch was starting, maybe even Achilles Smith. The Bears had another McCown or McNown, Cade McNown. Cade McNown, yeah.

I can't remember if he started right away, but I remember he definitely played. And so I think Dante might have been the only guy who didn't throw a pass that whole year. And next year he was a starter, and they went to the NFC Championship game. So it's hard to judge. In the moment, we all thought he was a a complete bust and this was a terrible draft pick and they had really mismanaged the whole situation. And it turned out that was a very good thing for him that he didn't get on the field at all that year while they were trying to, in that year in particular,

they thought they had a real shot to go pretty far and they ended up going, I think, to the divisional round of the playoffs. But that was a great thing for him. And if you could replicate that for J. for JJ McCarthy, if he needs it, then that would be unquestionably a great thing for him as well. It will not be easy on Kevin O'Connell. If they start one in five, two and four, if they get off to a very slow start,

it is going to be tough because Mark Wilf can say all he wants. Well, you know, we trust his decision and everything else, but if he flies in from New Jersey and watches Sam Darnold throw four picks, you know after that game he's going to be asking, is our rookie ready? Is our rookie ready to go? Because patience is a very hard thing to have. But if Kevin O'Connell rides the roller coaster of Sam Darnold,

which if you thought Kirk Cousins was a roller coaster, you'd wait for this. But if he rides that roller coaster and doesn't pull the chute, even if Darnold struggles, I will respect it and defend it because I think it's better for JJ McCarthy. And that's what really matters in the long run. Not so much how he handles Sam Darnold. And if he goes to Nick Mullins instead of JJ McCarthy, I can only imagine on your network what the little thing on the bottom is going to say and what Stephen A. Smith is going to be yelling about on TV. But I still will say this, as long as it's better for JJ McCarthy, that's all that really matters to me and should stick with it. But I do think that and then I want to get to some of yours.

I do think that O'Connell has pressure this year because it's not so much that I think he could get fired if they don't have a great year, but the expectation then going into 2025 or the pressure going into 2025, if he doesn't have a good season, compete for the playoffs, nine, eight, eight, nine, at least, then there will be this, you got to do it this year with your draft pick kind of right away or it's going to be some trouble it gives me a headache to think about it because and we had talked about this uh i think probably last summer when you taught we talked about all the pitfalls of deciding or ending up you know transitioning in year three at quarterback instead of year one or year two

is that let's say it all plays out he's in the third year of a four-year deal which is my understanding of his contract um they had the season that you're talking about this year. And then, so is he going into a fourth year of the fourth year with no, you know, as a lame duck? You know, it's not a lame duck in the sense that we know he's gone after the fourth year, but certainly it's not often when an NFL coach goes into a season without, you know, at least one year remaining beyond that on his contract. So do they give him a contract extension off of that? Off of the, you know, one, the first year being good in the next two years, not being, and then not knowing where the fourth year was going to go. Does he take whatever they would offer him anyway, knowing it would probably be a kind of a low, you know, ball number at that situation? Or do we go

into a season where like you're covering a team, you know, you're playing for a team, you're coaching for a team, you own a team where the coaches is as minimally committed to as you can be, you know? And so, you know, we'll see if it, if it comes to that. But that's the scenario, if you play it out of what you're, of what you're looking at looking at right i think that's where the pressure could mount as far as switching over to mccarthy if you look even halfway decent with mccarthy it eases some of that going into the following season and so forth personally i think if you have a good head coach who knows what he's doing that you should stick with that and write it out and write out your plan unless it becomes a total disaster but that's just not how the nfl universe works so uh what would you like me to uh buy or sell on your i've got all kinds of stuff on here that flowed out of my brain this morning but the first thing while we're on it with o'connell

is do you buy that they're gonna emphasize the the run more this year, given that Sam Darnold and or J.J. McCarthy and or Nick Mullins are the quarterbacks, knowing the context that basically, I think last year they had the lowest percentage of design runs in the NFL. And in the two-year tenure of O'Connell, I think they ranked number 29 in terms of percentage of design runs.

So there's a clear pattern that he produced under with, with, with Kirk cousins as his quarterback. Do you anticipate and he's, and they've never said it. So I guess we can't say, are you buying what the Vikings are saying, but are you buying that sort of conventional wisdom that they're going to

have to pull back on design throws versus design runs this season. It's like an implied buy because they signed Aaron Jones. It's not like they just said, who cares who's playing running back? They signed someone who has been one of the best players over the last decade, which indicates we would like to run the ball more and more effectively. It's not even just how much they run the ball for me. It's that they average, I think yards per carry 28th in the league since Kevin O'Connell took over, which I know the offensive line has not been ideal, but three out of the five human beings up there are pretty good run blockers. And I don't think Ed Ingram is the worst run blocker. And before that, I didn't think Ezra Cleveland was the worst run blocker. And before that, I didn't think Ezra Cleveland was the worst run blocker. So why hasn't this worked better? I am going to have to be shown this before I truly buy it. I think from a yards per cat, uh, carry perspective, Aaron Jones will do better than

Alexander Madison because we saw Ty Chandler do better and simply being able to read blocks, anticipate, make moves, shred blocks. We just didn't see a whole lot of that from Alexander Madison as he was mostly ramming into the back of his blockers last season. So it will be better by default because your human being that's playing running back is better, but I just don't see that run to pass ratio changing all that much because it didn't change with Nick Mullins and it didn't change with Josh Dobbs. Even when they were playing low score, close games at times with Josh Dobbs, they just kept passing. I mean, even in the Raiders game where I know

Madison got banged up, but in the Raiders game, it's the zero to zero in the fourth quarter. And still like first down pass, second down pass, Nick Mullins coming off the bench. I just think that's who Kevin O'Connell is. I'm okay with that because we saw Zimmer go way too far the other way. But I think that your offense is going to have a ceiling on it, no matter who's playing quarterback. If you don't at least have that effective run game that teams have to prepare for. Okay. And that's fair. And you brought up the offensive line there, which dovetails to another question that I had. And this is, could be into, it's hard to judge offensive linemen, but do you buy what the Vikings say and what sort of the analytic community says that Christian Derrissaw truly is one of the best left tackles in the NFL, even though he's not made a Pro Bowl or an All-Pro, of course.

And again, different metrics, tough to judge offensive linemen. run block win rate and pass block win rate, both of them. I think this past year, Darasov ranked 37th in pass blocking and 40th in run blocking. Brian O'Neill, for context, was 3 in pass blocking and 52 in run blocking. So, again, I don't know if that meets the eye test or not um and just because someone hasn't made a pro bowl doesn't mean that they're not really really good but like where do we pull from to argue that he actually is one of the top three or four and it's something that is relevant as we get into his contract extension period, which began after the end of the season.

Yeah, it most certainly is a relevant question. The thing about data outside of the PFF stuff is a lot of it is just being formulated and I can't contextualize it as well as I can with PFF because I've been using it for a really long time and I understand how they grade the accuracy of their grades, how it's done, all those sorts of things. And Christian Derrissaw for two years now has graded as one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL. And to me, that tackles just offensive line, right? Just even offensive lineman,

but definitely one of the best left tackles. Now he's not on the same level as Trent Williams, who is maybe the goat at that thing, but, uh, you know, little shade behind Andrew Thomas, but right in that ballpark as one of the best, uh, left tackles. And if we're weighing by positional difficulty, that does put them at the, you know, toward the top of all offensive linemen in the NFL. So I look at that metric the most as how often does that match up with how guys get paid, how they, uh, they kept in the league so forth

i know because i wrote the book on it how much the nfl not just the grades they use but all the metrics and data the pressures he allows a very low rate of pressures normally a low rate of sacks some of that depends on sacks on the quarterback you know you can have a good block and then the quarterback holds the ball for four seconds or something. But I have looked at him. I test from my perspective over the last two years as matching up with what PFF says about him. I rarely see him get beat on that side. If we do, we really notice because it happens so rarely. So I think that when he goes to the negotiating table, probably next year, I don't think that his people will go try to negotiate this summer, but next year, if he has a similar

season, he should be saying, put me up there in that 25 to $30 million range with the best left tackles in the league. Do you, do you agree with that? Yeah. Like, especially I was talking about with the contract, like teams are looking to get deals right now after three years when you still have those two additional ones that you're under the rookie contract and then a franchise tag after that. So for a team to pony up now, they're looking for a deal. And Christian Derusaw wouldn't have much reason to be settling for a deal at this point if there's any question about how they value him. And that was how Justin Jefferson felt. You know, they did make him a strong offer, but not nearly as strong as the one he ended up signing a year later. And so that, you know, unless the Vikings just want to give him what he wants

and he's willing to take something that probably would be quickly undervalued, then probably not in terms of an extension right now. You know, when I watch him, like, he looks like he's playing really well. Like, and then you – the other part is you say, like, how many left tackles in the NFL do I know I would take instead of him? You know, and there's – you know, Trent Williams was the one, you know, for sure that I think everybody, even at his age would always want to have, but you know,

when I was doing reporting on what it would take for the Vikings to trade up to with the Patriots at number three and the idea that they were looking for a premium player back, like Darasol was the name that I heard kind of mentioned as somebody that the Patriots would consider as part of that package. And so that, you know, the other team's evaluation is always huge. There's teams, you know, there's teams that haven't had a good quarterback for a generation, and there's teams that haven't had a good left tackle for a generation.

And the Patriots might be in that category, and it's really hurt them. And so I think he's good. I just wonder, sometimes, especially at offensive linemen, there's a separation between perceived talent and real talent. And sometimes it's a guy with a big personality or a big guy, a 6'8 guy or whatever whatever that just catches people's attention. And Christian Derrissaw, for whatever reason, his play has not caught the attention of people who recognize things like

Pro Bowl and All-Pro and that sort of thing. And so that's why I thought it was at least worth talking about. But like, if you look at it from the perspective of, okay, fine, name me five left tackles you'd rather have instead of him. I don't know if I could do that. Well, I feel the same way that you're going to have to show me what they're going to do at left tackle if they were to let Christian Derrissaw go. And considering his age, the draft status matches up with his performance. He's now done it for multiple seasons. It was last year, one of those, Hey, you have to do it over multiple years in order to get the

respect and the pro bowl thing i mean it's this is one of the great things about the pff data is that we no longer have to look at offensive linemen the only metrics we used to have were his madden rating and then how many pro bowls he made and sometimes guys would just make pro bowls on reputation because how would anyone have watched every single play or make it on his Madden rating? Right, right. Yeah, exactly. So after, but after for my book, I talked with an offensive line coach for the Cincinnati Bengals, former offensive line coach. And he took me through his viewpoint on their offensive line grades. Nothing is ever gospel when it comes to the grades, nothing is ever perfect when it comes to the grades nothing is ever perfect or captures everything but as far as giving you a pretty good snapshot of how good someone is i think with

derisaw it matches up and they should make him one of the highest paid guys as long as as long as he stays healthy i mean there have been a few times where he's been banged up a little bit came into the league banged up but yeah i think i think he's pretty terrific. Let me throw one at you. Do you buy that kicking curses could be real? Like, do you buy the idea that the Vikings just can never have now, now that they've drafted Will Reichard and now that me and Dane talked about how good it looked and the internet went crazy. But how do you believe that there's something intrinsic to this franchise that would cause kickers to have problems? Um, no, I think that there have been periods of time and maybe extended time where the particular people who populate the organization.

And I'm not even talking about one particular coach or one particular front office person or even an owner or whatever. There have been some situations where there have been people who have populated the organization who have made it harder to kick here. And I think, I mean, obviously, you know, we won't we can't ignore the impact of Mike Zimmer on Daniel Carlson's short career. Don't know. I wasn't around for the Blair Walsh kind of downturn, so I don't know what went on there. He was really good there for a while. But Mike Tice was a really good coach in a lot of ways,

but he struggled with kickers too. And at one point they hired, in the middle of the year, they hired like a kicking consultant to basically be the coach for the kicker because the key kind of a separation there and that didn't go so well. And so like, like Mike used to, you know, to try to create pressure used to like during practice, when it was a real special teams drill where you had the defense and the offense on the field,

like he would just walk across in between where the holder was and the long snapper just to create a distraction. And, like, let's see how mentally tough this guy is. And so they had some young guys that didn't handle that well, and they had some veterans who didn't handle it well either over that time. And so I tend to think that there's more concrete reasons why there have been extended periods of time when kicking has been really weird around here. Gary Anderson, you know, when he missed that field goal, it was just a miss. But the next year he came back and he was really, really having a tough season.

And it turns out, you know, he gave an interview to Don Banks, who was the reporter at the Pioneer Press at that time. He was having a lot of personal problems with marriage and his family behind the scenes. And there were some things that were happening that kind of led to that. So I can't discount what's happened with kickers around the Vikings over the decades, but I think there's usually more concrete explanations for why. And frankly, it seems like they kind of were done with Greg Joseph, but Greg Joseph kicked better than I thought he was going to kick over those first two years of the O'Connell tenure.

And I think they just kind, you know, they just kind of create, it's just a more genuinely positive environment, which I think kickers appreciate and benefit from far more than position players typically. So I think that if you had as many games, just with almost any team sampling of kickers outside of say the Patriots who stumbled upon the best of the best. But if you just had this many games that were relevant playoff games, games with playoff implications, so forth, that if you took almost any team and put them in those situations, you would have a handful of times where your kicker doesn't come through. It just so happened to be really memorable when it came to this team and

really good kickers had those kicks go, go wrong. But we don't remember the Kai Forbath kick in the NFC or in the Minneapolis miracle game where it's 52 yards with the game on the line. It could have been the game winning kick, but then the miracle happens. If the Vikings get a fourth down stop against Drew Brees, it's kai forbath who is the hero here right and then uh talk about self-inflicted wounds rather than just staying with the guy who hit the huge kick no we have to go out and draft somebody then mike zimmer's not happy with that and then he's got to play psychological warfare with the guy so is that something intrinsic to the organization no that was one guy who was a

lunatic about kickers and even the stuff you're talking about is just so bizarre like why play mind games with a guy who has to be mentally locked in i mean it's it's almost like if you were rooting for your buddy to make a putt and then you're like i'm gonna help you out by yelling at you or something it may not help with this kick but it'll help or putt but it'll help you with the next putt right i don't think that it works that way no one does that during a game why would you do it then so i the coaches kind of lose their minds when it comes to kickers a little bit because they can't just tell them do this technique or let's scheme it this way it's totally out of your hands it's one of the bizarre things about football but i don't believe that will reichard is cursed because of the history of the past if he doesn't kick well it's because he's not a great kicker yeah so far early returns i think he does look

like a good kicker yeah like i was thinking about that you know put that in something that was going to run in a few days i think um on espnPN.com, is that the only thing you can judge about kickers is if they have, during spring practice, is if their leg is strong enough. And clearly, after watching him, and I think you guys talked about it on the earlier podcast, but watching him almost hit the video balcony, which is above the goalposts and behind it.

And then the other one was the 60-yarder, where he landed it in the net, which is like 10 feet off the ground ands and behind it. And then the other one was the 60-yarder where he landed it in the net, which is like 10 feet off the ground and 10 feet behind. And so he – like who knows how long that could have been for. So he has definitely shown us a leg strength that is very good for the NFL. But how he operates and handles pressure situations, we won't know until it happens. And that's part of why it's hard for these guys to deal with it,

coaches to deal with it, because they don't know if this guy is going to crack under pressure until he does, which loses a game. And so we go on forever about kickers. I love the psychology of it, but I think that most people view them as the same way they view officials. It's like, I don't want to hear about them. I just want them to do their jobs.

I do think Greg Joseph was pretty clutch. I mean, he missed that one against Arizona in 2021, but he had a bunch of big ones after that. I don't remember ever walking off thinking, Oh great. Now we got to go talk to the kicker. We probably didn't talk to him for two years.

Yeah. He, he had a bunch of, I think he, like he had, I know that in 22, he had a bunch of i think he like he had a i know that in 22 he had a bunch of he led the league in last second clutch winning field but whatever the stat is called and he tied like john casey's uh nfl record for that um so he had a ton that year

including the um wasn't one of them like 50 some yards that to beat the, that in the giant, either the giants game or the Colts game giants, it was like 60 yards, 60 yards. And so like, if he had just been a little more consistent on some of the second and third quarter kicks and he probably still be the kicker, but you know, it's a,

he, I thought he established kind of a higher bar than people realize for, you know, what will Reichardt is now going to have to be over. All right. What else he got? What do you want me to buy? Oh man. Well, I, people realize for you know what will reichardt is now going to have to be over all right what else you got what do you want me to buy oh man um well i i'm happy to talk offensive line but let me ask you this like um shaq griffin is being discussed as the reason the vikings are going to

be able to play more man coverage this year as As we know, last year, Brian Flores decided to play, go totally against his style and play mostly zone coverage behind that six-man front. And it caught a lot of people by surprise, which was good for the Vikings. And it also was what was best for their personnel in terms of what he had to work with. So now they have gone out and signed Shaq Griffin, not to the kind of like multi-year multi-million dollar deal you would think it would take to get a cornerback who can play consistent man to man coverage, but at least publicly around town, I've heard a lot of people say, well, this year they'll be able to play a lot more man because they have Shaq Griffin.

Do you think that's, that's true? Ish. I'm going to go with I'll sort of I'll soft buy. I will buy at a low price, but I would not hard buy on that because Shaq Griffin has a history where a few years ago he was a really good corner in the NFL, and he hasn't been to that level. He hasn't been horrendous, but he's just sort of been a guy in the league over the last few years. And what I do know about corners is that they're up and down year to year.

Sometimes they have great years, sometimes not. There's a lot of other things that play into it. Scheme, quality of competition. Sometimes you face the great wide receivers and so forth. He looked good in minicamp camp if I could go there. But when your own team cuts you in the middle of the season, regardless of what the reason was, because this guy came back and there wasn't a spot or whatever, still, they don't cut players that they really think are fitting in awesome with the team. So that makes me skeptical of that part. The other thing too is that corners

get hurt all the time and i'm not saying he will get hurt but anybody here byron murphy was banged up last year if bakai blackman gets hurt at all the next man up situation is not particularly good we saw the more you have a caleb evans out there the more that gets exposed um andrew ruth jr seems to be not a person who exists on this football team and then past that uh we're getting kind of deep into the weeds i mean maybe kairi jackson could play right away he seems to be like a man type of corner but that's a fourth round draft pick in his first season so if anybody gets banged up and this happens all the time with corners where then you have to start shuffling then i think they're going to have a lot of trouble doing that just based on

the personnel. But as far as his history, how he plays, it doesn't mean that his man coverage has to be flawless. It just has to exist and be reasonable. So I would say that's their plan, but we also see sometimes that their plan was to have Marcus Davenport and Daniil Hunter pair together. Their plan was to throw back to Dean Lowry's 2021 season. Sometimes these things don't happen with guys who have kind of bounced around. So I'm going to say I get the logic and I think he might be a good fit for them,

but that's one that I have to see to believe. Yeah, I'm going to buy that they're going to play more man coverage this year. And that's, you know, not hard. That's not like a big breaking news story. I mean, if they played more zone than anybody last year, they got to the end of last year and they were talking about publicly, like, we got to figure out a way to play at least some mix more man in. I think they're going to do that.

I don't think Shaq Griffin is, I just don't think Shaq Griffin is like the hinge on that plan. Like, if he's good, then they'll do it. If he's not good or he's not on the field, then they won't. I just don't think Shaq Griffin is the hinge on that plan. If he's good, then they'll do it. If he's not good or he's not on the field, then they won't. I think they're going to keep pushing to find ways and see who can give them a look at in-man coverage or some version of it or some disguise of it that gives them that chance to not be quite as predictable from a coverage standpoint now that everybody has that year of film to go. I think what I'm going to think about Shaq Griffin is either, wow,

what an amazing signing, or I know what they're getting with the 13th overall pick. That's the only two ways I could go on that. But I do believe that if you ran out the same defense with the same coverages and everything else that teams by the end of the year sort of knew what was happening there and that, that won't benefit them so they do have to change it up and they do have to run more man coverage i think and it's going to be fun because i think if you watch and this we knew this already but if you watch the video of justin jefferson's first

day behind the scenes with the vikings like he's talking to shaft griffin and saying we're going to go at it all summer long and like like that like if you're if you're if you're going to be trying to judge how good Shaq Griffin is because he's uh going against Justin Jefferson in every training camp drill you have to make sure you grade it on a curve but that'll be good for him because he won't he probably won't have to cover anybody who's more difficult to cover in man coverage in the course of the season than the guy who's going to be with all training camp yeah i think that's true uh but i view this a level above the bashad breland type of signing i don't think it's like the total bottom of the barrel they did pay some money for him and according to the internet they gave up nine compensatory picks for him and all

that so uh whatever yeah we don't have to go there i that i just i don't think i don't think everything that came out there was accurate, but it'll, we'll find out next March for sure. That's what I don't. Yeah. I don't care. I'll let me know then they,

I'm sure they have a chart anyway. Uh, I want to know if you're buying winter warrior jerseys, all whites with the, is, is the winter warriors was called winter soldier, winter freedom fighter. What is it called?

Winter warrior. Okay. All right. Uh, so, uh, yeah. Do you buy him? Uh, Is the Winter Warrior is what it's called? Winter Soldier? Winter Freedom Fighter? What is it called? Winter Warrior? Winter Warrior. Okay. All right. So, yeah. Do you buy them? Well, I'm not literally buying. I'm pretty sure I will not be literally buying one.

You know what I mean. Actually, I kind of liked it. I'm glad that they finally, after two years of the winter whiteout, which is what they were doing before, just wearing their normal white uniforms at home with purple helmets that they are now going to have a white helmet to go with it. That just, and I'm probably like the least style driven person that's ever been on your podcast or any other podcast.

So if you look at what I wear on for games, you would know that. But I do think that it was, it makes sense to have a white helmet with that, with the, with the white. And, and, and I thought it was fun to watch, notice that they kind of got a nod into Kevin O'Connell's culture shield of the, our process, our team, our way or whatever, that that's now emblazoned, that's now a real thing. And it's emblazoned on their, on their uniforms, which is pretty wild.

I will not be personally buying it because I'm not really a Jersey person. But do I like them? I think I'm glad that they – it'll make me sit more freely in the game that we cover that they have a white helmet with white uniforms instead of purple. So how's that two minutes of filling time about uniforms? I wanted to ask you because I thought who would be more awkward to answer the question about, yeah, you were like a eight out of 10 for, especially you clarifying to the audience numerous times that you're not actually purchasing jerseys.

I think they know. I think they know that the reporters don't buy the jerseys and so forth. You said, are you buying? I don't want to. There's a lot of these aggregators. Oh, that's right. Yeah. I say, yeah, I'm buying that.

Then the first tweet out from whoever will be Seifert says he's buying a white jersey. I agree with you on the white helmet. I like a little mix up here or there with the jerseys. I just think that if you go too far with that and you're using it too often, then it gets annoying because they have great jerseys overall. And I kind of wish that they would go, and they have done this in the past, but all the time, all white on the road like they used to with just the purple band around the sleeves or whatever and the purple helmet.

Sometimes when they go with the purple pants, I just think that that looks kind of I'm not a huge fan of that. Yeah, like I that they wore that for the second week of the O'Connell tenure. So that that week two game to Philadelphia, um, and got blown out of town on that one. And they have, I don't know if they've worn it since except at home for the, for the whiteout. So either they, they, uh, they put a fence around it to only use for the, for the winter whiteout thing at home, or they thought that it was bad luck and they, and they went with, um, purple pants after that. Oh, that that's what caused Justin Jefferson. He couldn't tell where he was cause he was wearing too much white and he

threw the ball at the back of the end zone. I guess that was, that was the cause. Do you have any more for me? I only have one more for you. I don't know if it's, if this is only just, I mean, more offensive line stuff, but do you buy that it's actually possible that the Vikings signed a player who started for them last

year to come back and be a backup slash compete for two of the positions and that person being Dalton Reisner? What do you buy is actually going on with that whole situation? For all the 10 people who want to know about the guard oh no no no this is a guard show oh is it okay if if we changed it to purple guard insider

it would probably get even more viewers i only say that because as at espn like i cover the vikings but what i really do is cover the quarterbacks and uh and the pass rushers so oh oh no there is there is a commenter who calls himself guard guy because every time the guard comes up, and when I do the fan stuff, I get very frequent questions about what's going on at guard. So this is an extremely relevant question. I am 100% buying that he came back here

to just compete in training camp and most likely be a swing guard because that's where he's at in his career. And eventually he had to realize that he couldn't tweet out highlights of himself and get someone to pay him and ask ton of money. He just, that was one of the silliest things I feel like I've ever seen from a guy like just that's something a UFL player would do. Like, Hey, someone pay attention to me. And then buddy, we know who you are. You've been in the NFL for a bunch of years. Here's the other thing I believe is that other teams were calling up and saying, how about

like a minimum salary to compete? Because I just, I think that NFL offensive line coaches want you to be a good run blocker or don't really want you. And, and that I think that's what's happened to Reisner is that it's not that he's just meh at run blocking. He's very poor by the PFF metrics and clearly by what the rest of the league's opinion is. So I think that he didn't have many other options and decided, well, why not come back? And there's a inexperienced left guard. There's a right guard who struggled at times that their patience might run out for him. And also there's a inexperienced left guard there's a right guard who struggled at

times that their patients might run out for him and also there's 17 games and people get hurt all the time yeah i don't think it's even that different from david questenberry like david questenberry was a starting offensive lineman for a very long time but at some point you have two choices you can either not get a paycheck or get a paycheck and be a backup for somebody and questonberry is like 33 or something like that isn't he but isn't and dalton reisner is like 27 like it feels like dalton reisner should be in in his prime um and like i know that he had you know whatever happened contract wise with him in free agency last year ended with him coming in week four but he did he was considered one of their top two guards last year ended with him coming in week four, but he did, he was considered one of

their top two guards last year. Did they get to the end of the season and evaluate him and think he wasn't, and they thought Blake Brandel was, um, or is this just, you know, like they couldn't put them in, they couldn't just bring them in, sign them during mini camp. And then the first day have him be a starter like i guess i'm not buying yet that i i mean everything that the vikings have done with blake brandel says they want to give him a chance to win or a chance to start um but i guess i'm not buying yet that dalton riser is going to be a backup yeah with the brandel uh he's a guy who's a sixth round tackle and has really not played a whole lot um Um, he's like, he is, he is an enormous human being.

Maybe that if they're going to run a bunch of power stuff, then having a guy that size would be good. Uh, the amount of praise for him. So sifting through praise is hard. You know, like when someone says Johnny Munt is the best number three tight end, you're like, is that a compliment or not? Like, you know, like, Hey Kevin,

you dress well for a sports reporter. Like what? And that's not even true. So we know no one would say that. Yeah. If you're below average dressing for a sports reporter, it's not good. But the point just being,

I don't really know because they have praised the hell out of Blake Brando for several years. They've also praised the hell out of Jalen Naylor and you know, let's see if he makes a single catch or whatever. So yeah, I guess I, I think it will be a true competition is the way that I would put it. So am I buying that he was brought in to start actually? No, because the money wouldn't indicate that, but true competition in and out, they might even switch first team reps during training camp. I think that's what we'll probably have. Yeah. And I guess my assessment of interpreting praise from this particular group, like there's some coaching staffs that I've covered when, when you hear someone say, Hey, Blake Brandel is great. We love him. It's, it's a, it's meant to, to motivate

whoever is above him to remind that person that, Hey, you have a great, we have a great backup that could take your job at any time. I don't think these guys operate that way too much. I think when they praise people, they're trying to, you know, Kevin O'Connell thing of like wrap them in our arms of love or however he puts that. Like, I think he's, they view the compliment and the praise and and optimism as

purely to fuel that particular player so i tend to not look sideways when they when they are praising people that it may not be because they've reached the level that level that deserves that praise but they're trying to get them there it tells you like that's who they want to to be good or that's who they they want that person to feel like they can you know take that next step and that they're it's believed that they can take that next step so i think that um you know all the praise of brandel was to try to get him to a spot where he's at now and let's see if he can if he can take advantage of it or not okay one real quick funny and then a little more serious for Are you buying?

Our friend Dane Mizutani, the Pioneer Press, regular on this show, claims that he can kick a 35-yard field goal. You buying that? No, no, I'm not. That's the easiest one of the day. And I can speak from advice, and not because I've gone on an NFL field and tried to kick, but the Super Bowl was here in 2018, I think. And they have

that NFL experience. Every time there's a Super Bowl, they have this, they take over a convention center downtown and they have an NFL experience and like kids can like run through an obstacle course and like try to throw a ball into a target. And one of the things they have is you can kick a field goal. They have a, they have it set up. So I stood in line. I want, this is my great chance to do it without having like NFL players or coaches watching and laughing, or even having to ask somebody who operates a NFL team, if I can do it. And I lined up and I did all the things that I've watched kickers do the whole time, took my two steps back, my two steps over. I think I even did like the thing where you line it up like this and like,

and then I kicked it and it went like four feet in the air and like, just, it was hard. I kicked it hard, but it never got more. It never elevated even to the point where it could have gotten over the crossbar at any point. And so, and that was just one kick. And maybe the second time I could have done better, but like if, if Dane is just going to, for the first time, line up and try to kick a 35 yard field goal, he ain't making it. Not happening. Not happening. Because, I mean, not only do you have to get it up in the air enough, but accurate. No, it's not going to happen. You could probably practice it for a long time and not be able to do that. I think I could pick it better than I did, which isn't saying much if I practiced a lot.

But like still, I don't know that I could make it. Speaker 2 There are some things athletically that I feel like our beat has some people pretty good. Like Ben is a great runner. I have a good basketball shot. We probably have a good golfer here or there, but kicking it, doing anything on NFL field is just not for us. So we just let them do that. The one last serious one is the, the NFC North one last serious one is the the nfc north being talked about one of the tougher divisions i want you to give me something in the

nfc north that you are not buying they're like the the big narrative about this team this player this whatever is uh maybe a little bit on the overrated side what would that be i get clipped and uh sent somewhere but i don't know if i'm ready to give jordan love 55 million dollars a year and i know like that we have to look at it from not that we're giving him 55 million a year but we're giving him the market rate for what it would take to sign him to a long-term extension and that's what you have to decide or not but like i mean he's played a half he's he's entering year five and he's played a half of a season that's really good are we totally on board with him as i mean people are already saying well the packers have done it again you know brett farve to jordan love i mean

brett farve darren rodgers to jordan love and like three straight Hall of Famers. And I guess I'm just not ready. And the 55 million would signify that the Packers agree that this is the guy, you know, not necessarily is going to the Hall of Fame, but is going to be very much an established starter for a long time. And like, I guess I feel like he did. I can't argue with anything he did in the second half of last season. But is that like enough for us to say definitively that that he's the next in line here that should be you know and again maybe that's they maybe they have no choice if they're going to sign him it has to be

for that money after trevor lawrence and just that's just where the numbers are but like like i i don't know if i'm buying that, like they found their guy and like, and that five years from now, he's still going to be the starter. Yeah, I think from my perspective, I was because you have to include how he played the playoffs and so forth, buying that he will be a very good quarterback going forward. It may be more of a roller coaster than people expect or more than Rogers, who is just super consistent. Maybe it is more far of like

where it's interceptions in the playoffs and sometimes great numbers and everything else but if this is kind of the just the price to play poker right what are you going to do he knows what are you going to do get rid of me after you develop me for all those years and then i was one drive away from the nfc championship and then you're just going to not pay me. So this is, it's a little bit of the issue. And I don't think they'll run into this with JJ McCarthy because they could sit him for one year, but when they get all the heaps of praise for developing a quarterback over

three seasons, well, one, it could also be Brett Hundley, by the way, and he doesn't develop into anything, but if he does develop into something, then immediately you have to pay

and that's the conundrum that they're in for the future but as you see from trevor lawrence's structure he actually doesn't really have a high cap hit for the three years so they have a window here that they'll still be able to work with what i am not buying in the nfc north also is regarding the packers i don't understand the decision in the backfield like moving on from Aaron Jones maybe there's something medical that they didn't like there A.J. Dillon is bad like I just I don't think I've never been concerned about A.J. Dillon he barely got the minimum I think to come back but still he's the one of their top guys you know along with with Jacob with with Jacobs so which I don't understand really either.

I mean, maybe there's something else there, but he just didn't play very well last year. And you're paying a lot of money for that. When you have a good passing game, you could get somebody else. I don't really understand that. And the other thing is too, that they're, they are selling hard on, Hey, you don't actually need a number one wide receiver. You could just have a bunch of decent receivers and I don't know,

having covered the vikings i think it's actually better to have the number one receiver that's what teams with no number one receiver like a like when a single guy says no i'd rather be single yeah would you really well and this dates me but like i always go back to what the packers did the year after randy moss's rookie uh year and they drafted three cornerbacks and they're in the top two rounds and all of them were like six feet or above and so like like that's what a number one receiver can do it can make teams change everything that they're doing there's nobody on the Packers receiving core right now that changes even what scheme you might be running let alone what draft uh strategy you

might have. Right, exactly. So, you know, we'll see on that if it actually turns out for them being a true contender or just another sort of good team in the league. Kevin Seifert, this was a lot of fun. And, you know, so I appreciate you doing this. We don't have a current milkshake bet. I feel like we got you struggled so much with them last year that maybe you need to make the milkshake bet with dane about the field goal and then we'll have to do it about

whether i whether he could make it or not yeah because he'll bet on himself to make it yeah of course yeah all right yeah maybe that's a good idea okay we'll do that uh thanks again for all your time this is really fun as always and uh we'll see you soon thanks