Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Kevin Seifert isn't ready to call Kirk Cousins gone yet

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

ESPN's Kevin Seifert joins the show to talk about the odds that Kirk Cousins leaves Minnesota and then goes through the potential draft and free agency options at quarterback to determine what's best Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with ESPN's Kevin Seifert. And I'm not even going to waste any time with an introduction, a small talk. How you been? How's your offseason going? Is Kirk coming back, Seifert? What's going on? I have been, every time someone asks me that, I've maintained that it's more likely that he is than he isn't. And that could even be like a 51% to 49% because there's interest on both sides. And a lot of time in these negotiations and discussions, you already know that one side is just checked out. And I really don't think that's the case on either end, but it'll come down to, and I feel like we could have said this months ago, but is Kirk going to, if Kirk does what he always does, then he's gone. Which is, you know, go find, you know, establish his value and find the best offer for him. I don't think the Vikings are going to be in the close enough financially to make that happen. If he sort of, I don't want to say hometown discount, but if he's really truly

willing to do to, you know, kind of finish out his career here, as he says he wants to, then he might end up here under a smaller deal that will still make him very rich. But, you know, it does feel like it's going to require something entirely different from him than we've seen throughout his career so if we want to bet on something that's um totally out of character then that's what we would have to do how much do you look into what we heard from kevin o'connell the of it, from the podium to the sit down to on television, which I noticed even good morning football was breaking down every word that Kevin O'Connell said. And I didn't think it was crazy different from anything that he had said previously. But there were a few new things that he tossed in, including taking a shot at the tampering that goes on in Indianapolis.

Like, hey, Kev, I'm sure the Minnesota Vikings have never snuck in a word with anybody there either. But to add that to it and then to say, you know, kind of he's earned the right to hit free agency and so forth. But we all know once he hits free agency, it's very, very likely over for him in Minnesota because of that dead cap hit kicking in.

So did that sway you in any way? Or are you still staying with it's around 50-50, but slightly leaning to a comeback? Did that influence how you feel about it after seeing what he said on television? I think he's just being realistic. I took that as just being realistic, not not like, like acknowledging that, that, and, and giving Kirk, you know, the space to, that he really, you know, has earned the right to be a free agent and to have this choice in front of him if he chooses to make it. But also like, like I, like a lot of people have, you know, locked in on the tampering part of that or locked in on the other, there's going to be other teams without hearing sort of

the sales pitch that he's slipped in there by noting what Kirk's record is I think he said it was 17 and uh eight but I think it's eight or 18 and seven but I think it's 17 and eight but regardless Kirk's had a better regular season record uh with since Kevin O'Connell became the Vikings coach than he's had in the rest of his career, which is basically 500 to that point, and noting the weapons the Vikings have and the offense and the places it could go. So I felt like he was trying to be in the world of the real, but also making clear that, like, he still wants him back, and he is almost arguing that this is the best place for Kirk to go if he wants to

to realize you know some professional um you know success the the maximize the professional success we can argue whether that's the case or not but I would you know I don't think I can ever remember a head coach advocating to be starting over at that position when he's had a successful run to this point. And the prospects for a replacement are at best uncertain. We don't know the name of the next Vikings starting quarterback if it's not Kirk Cousins yet. And it puts a lot of pressure on the ensuing couple months to be able to come up with a suitable answer if that's the case. So I came away with, I don't think they know was my big takeaway. And what his television comments confirmed for me was, yeah, that's right, that they really don't know what Kirk Cousins is thinking. And all they could do is say, look, we like you and we would love to have you back, but the offer is going to be what the offer is.

And it doesn't sound like, and again, I was watching this clip from Good Morning Football and something that was brought up was they didn't say at any point, hey, we're all in on Kirk. We want him back and nobody else and he's our guy and all our eggs are in that basket. It was, we love him, we'll bring him back. But, you know, this quarterback class, and there was a lot of that.

We met with a lot of them and we liked a lot of them. And I thought that some guys at the Combine really did make their case, including J.J. McCarthy, who I thought probably had the strongest week of anybody. And all the buzz was about him coming out of it. Michael Penix came out and threw lasers at the throwing session, which, you know, everybody already knew, but I thought he had a really good workout and so forth. So, you know, can you get sold on one of those guys? So there's always been a little bit of this hedging toward, well, it's a negotiation. Well, he's going to have other offers, not, Hey, we need him back by any

means, which if you're Kirk cousins, now this is the challenging part, but I think interesting is to get inside the brain of Kirk cousins and try to figure out what does he really want? Because throughout his career, he's mostly been accused of just wanting the most money and what the dollars represent and so forth. But what I've continued to come back to is Kirk. We've been around him long enough to know he really knows what every team is doing. He knows their players. He knows their rosters. He knows their timelines. He knows their coaches systems. Like this guy loves football. And if, if he's looking at these other rosters, how does he not come back to Atlanta's just got all these players and players under contract and an offensive coordinator who comes from L.A. working with McVay?

Like everybody that I talked to said Atlanta makes more sense than Minnesota. And I just can't disagree. So I think if it's about trying to win for Cousins and try to wash away the, I can't win in the playoffs, I can't win divisions. Atlanta is a situation more built for that than Minnesota at this moment. Well, but you also have to consider like in his mind, like how much can he know about Raheem Morris? How much can he know about Zach Robinson? And compare that to how much he knows about Kevin O'Connell, and I guess Josh McCown, you know, and Wes Phillips, obviously, and Justin Jefferson, how much does he know about the Falcons receivers compared to what he knows about the Vikings receivers and the Vikings tight ends

compared to the Falcons tight ends and the Vikings line. So like, I think that, like he, like I would imagine that, like he'll, he would also think along those lines as well. Like what I've you know, whether it's money or not, like what I've I guess the way I boil down to what I think he wants is he said he wants to finish his career in Minnesota. He wants to hear from the Vikings through their offer that they want him to finish his career in Minnesota. And you can't really convey that by offering one year guaranteed. And you might not be able to convey that by offering two years guaranteed because he's talked about playing for three more years. I think there was an interview he did earlier this offseason where he said

a good number is three more years and then go year to year after that. So he's talking about playing from age 36 to 39, basically be guaranteed through that. Now, is there wiggle room in how guaranteed is defined and commitment is defined? Probably. But I think that's the easiest way to think about what he truly wants, whether it's from, you know,

Atlanta is probably going to have to offer that in order to lure him or at least, you know, throw out, you know, unofficially let him know that that's what would be coming if he would, you know, if he would hang on and not sign with the Vikings. But ultimately, I think that's what he wants. I think he wants the Vikings to convince him through their offer that they want him to be their quarterback until he's done playing. And I think that that is the biggest hurdle for bringing him back for the Vikings is that they have never been comfortable with a long-term extension for him. And they've had multiple opportunities to do so.

If you're not doing it after a 13-win season where he ties the record ties or sets for fourth quarter comebacks and wins 13 games and puts up good numbers and gets along with your coach and emerges as a leader and netflix loves him then why would that be different after going four and four aside from that kevin o'connell feels like he was getting the offense more but that was the time to sign him to a three-year extension right and even then the other part of that is like you had you had going and four, he's going to be a year older and he had his first injury, um, significant injury. And you can say that was a freak injury and non-contact or whatever, but like the actuarial actuarial tables will tell you that that's just more likely to happen at his age moving forward.

And, um, I thought one of the biggest takeaways from Netflix was how much, you know, how open he was and how visual it was and visible it was, how much his body, you know, gets abused as it is. And so, like, I thought that was like an underrated part of their decision, you know, after the after the O2 season to not sign him to a long term deal, because, I mean, the guy like, yes the guy's had no injuries but but undoubtedly has just been crushed physically uh you know over the years by nature of the position and the way he plays the position and like you know Kwesi Adolfo Mensah is using a process that's very data driven.

And the numbers will tell you that the longer you play, the more likely you are to be hurt. And so that's another thing to think about is like, yes, the Achilles itself is going to be healed. And I don't think anyone has any anticipation otherwise. But like you're just in a period of your life, you know, Tom Brady, I guess, being the one exception, but where it's more likely that he's going to encounter injuries that would either limit his performance or prevent his performance. So another thing to keep in mind that the Vikings would have to keep in mind for, and look, and I don't think it's necessarily a wrong decision to say, look, we can't guarantee you three more years. We want you back, but that's too much for where our process and where our structure is. And they part ways on that. And then that kind of puts Kirk, I think that stamps Kirk Cousins sort of who he is. and this is not a negative but just says like that's you know ultimately like he's

going to go where um the money represents the commitment um regardless of what the other unknowns might be i think that when you look at some of the other teams that are listed as potential kirk buyers you can make a desperation case for all of them. So Atlanta, clearly they haven't been in the playoffs since 2017 and their owner is 81 years old. I mean, I think Andy's worth 8 billion or something. I think he'd be willing to give Kirk some guaranteed money. And it might, if you squint, remind you of Matt Ryan. If you look at the Denver Broncos, I know their cap situation's messed up, but Sean Payton comes from new orleans we know that if you want to make it happen you can make it happen and he worked with a quarterback again

if you squint lacking mobility accuracy highly intelligent uh you know in new orleans with drew breeze i'm not saying he's breeze but if you squint right and they they want to win they walmart takes them over they They've got Sean Payton. Like, are they going to draft and develop J.J. McCarthy for three years? And Vegas, they won eight games with Aiden O'Connell starting. Pittsburgh, Mike Tomlin might actually finally feel some heat there. So there's a lot of teams, I think, where you could say there is a really good reason for them to sort of bend to the will of magic mike mccartney there is when you were talking about that though like i like we mentioned earlier

like what does um kirk cousins know about raheem morris and like there's an uncertainty maybe there he has a reputation as a very uh an awesome guy to play for um awesome guy to work for if you're an assistant coach if you're an assistant coach, if you're in the built, like creates this great culture. And like, you know, whether his strategic approach to coaching will be successful, I don't know. But like, that's what he has always had a great reputation for. Like playing for Sean Payton is hard, man.

Like he's a great coach and like potentially Hall of Fame. But, you know, he came from the Parcells tree and he's that way. He coaches you hard and not nicely. I don't think he would ever want to tell you that he was being nice. And so it would be quite a culture shock to go from Kevin O'Connell to Sean Payton. So like, whether that's, you know, like, I really question whether that's going to be a, an option or whether that's a smart option for either side. But you know, in the end, if you perform for Sean, you know, you're going to be great.

But Drew Brees is going to the Hall of Fame. He's one of the great best quarterbacks of multiple generations. And I don't know that Kirk, you know, anybody would put Kirk in that category. But I, you know, it only takes one, though. Like, you don't even need the bidding war to get you what you want from one team, because that one team is going to know intuitively, if not explicitly through the tampering, that you're going to have to come through with multiple guaranteed years at a competitive quarterback salary. You know, our Bill Barnwell said if he if Kirk Cousins is on the open market and it's just there's a bidding war, like you're talking 50 plus million a year just because that's, you know, it's so rare that a quarterback is on the open market of his caliber.

And Joe Burrow got fifty five million and he had multiple more years that he was locked down for and they could use the franchise tag on. So those are important distinctions but i um i i don't know like how many teams there really are and like we'll see if the falcons truly are if everyone's just sort of you know everyone's sort of feeding at the same trough there and and and building that potential up beyond to where it actually is but um it would really only take one to get those numbers to where they would be beyond what the Vikings appear willing to do. So let me throw a couple options at you. If Kirk leaves, what they'll do at quarterback.

Can you tell me if you like it or not? So the first one is the trade-up option. I mean, I don't think you need to put in a whole lot of effort to see why Kevin O'Connell would love someone like Drake May. I mean, Jane Daniels, maybe, obviously he's super dynamic, but Drake May is a playmaker. He's got a gigantic arm and the comp for him, best case scenario, is probably someone like Matthew Stafford. You can really see it. Is it worth trading multiple draft picks to get up in a draft where a lot of teams need quarterbacks a lot of teams are making that phone call but if you're looking to get your guy

to pair with your quarterback head coach and his new square jawed quarterback coach uh josh mccown that would be the option to get your guy that you fully buy into and i think i i don't want to say that's what they have to do but if they've previously made this value judgment, a defensible value judgment that we can't be all in on Kirk Cousins, who has the high floor and maybe the low ceiling and we get into all that. But if you've made that decision because it's not sound, then like, and you're still, you know, on a track to hopefully build a super bowl winning team i

don't think you can hedge on what's next like i know there's lots of other uh spots that they need to elevate on this roster and there's limited ways to do that the draft is always the top reason to do it if to get up into that third pick in order to ensure you get – or maybe fourth, I don't know, but probably third. To get one of those guys is going to really hamper your next couple drafts and going to really tax the coaching staff to get the most out of some non-blue chip players that are going to win the Super Bowl by hedging it and saying, OK, we're going to I don't think by like, you know, that's too expensive. We can't have Kirk. That's too expensive. We can't trade up into the first few picks because that's too expensive. We're going to find a guy that nobody else values as much. And we're going to put it all on Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown and Wes Phillips and Justin Jefferson, another important part of this formula, to make him better, you know,

to maximize whatever that player's ceiling is. And so maybe they think they can do that. That seems like an awfully aspirational goal. And so that option, I think if, if Kirk ends up leaving and there'll be hamstrung because everybody's going to know, like we, they don't have a quarterback, you know, they might sign a, and maybe you'll get to this. They might sign a Sam Darnold-ish type guy to, to hold it down until the rookie is ready. But like they,

they will have to do that, you know, almost have to do that. If their goal is going to credibly remain to win the Superbowl. Right. At some point in the next, at some point in the next five years, I should say.

Yeah. Some point in the next 50 years, people would take, as far as the price, the price is going to be immense. You're not going to get a deal because there's going to be a lot of teams that are trying to trade up and you're going to have to put a lot into it but the one thing that i come back to to justify that is that the weapons

that they have already being in place a lot of times that's the hardest part you draft a quarterback super high and you're like okay well uh who did sam darnold have for receivers with the new york jets when he got drafted there yeah and you go like okay you got no linemen you got no receivers but good luck to you buddy uh i look at somebody like joe burrow as a good example cincinnati had no defense whatsoever but they did have a couple of receivers and then were able to add jamar chase to that eventually. And their defense was largely built through free agency. I think it's a lot easier to put together those players and to develop guys like we've seen with Metellus, Bynum, than it is to find a Jefferson, find a Derisov, find a Brian O'Neill. So the fact that those pieces are in place,

if the guy works out, you can have an elite offense and build that defense through the money that that guy gives you with his rookie contract. So even though the sacrifice is significant, that side of the ball, I just think is easier when you've got money to work with because there's a lot of defensive players in free agency. Now, the other option is to stay at 11 and see what happens. I am not fully convinced that McCarthy is going to be the top 10 pick that everyone is saying.

Seems like he might be a Kevin O'Connell type guy. We could develop his mechanics, but you can't develop his heart. There's also maybe a debate for Michael Penix has a rocket arm, which could be pretty attractive for throwing the ball downfield. Bo Nix is the robot quarterback that you put in you know he just you know tell him what to do and he's going to operate it so you know you could see something attractive about any one of those guys or even an option well we'll get to the different option what do you think about just waiting to 11 and taking your favorite guy who's there? You get what you get.

And given how aggressive teams typically are to get quarterbacks, you're just messing with fate. Maybe you'll get lucky. Maybe some teams will have different evaluations than you do. You know, Patrick Mahomes was, I think the Chiefs traded up around 11 or so to get Patrick Mahomes, and Deshaun Watson was around that way too, and that's one of the better draft classes of quarterbacks that we've seen in a few years over the past 10 or so. So you certainly, like, it's not like a,

it's not like you're picking 25th and you know that you're going to have to either get a second tier guy or you're not going to get a quarterback. But like, I think, I don't know, man, like, especially the way everybody says, well, there's a great quarterback class, you know, you just get whoever the next guy is, but everyone has been kind of planning on this for a while. And so I think there's a lot of teams that are going to be maybe not as explicitly and overtly interested and or not as obvious of a quarterback need as the vikings but i think they just be taking fate into their hands and like you're really trying to thread a needle if to assume that everyone in the world knows you

need a quarterback at 11 and like you know somebody isn't going to trade up to 10. And I think that happened. There was somebody – I'm trying to remember what the team was, but ultimately back in the year of Sam Darnold getting drafted and Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen, I think Josh Rosen was number 10. And so, like, that group was all thought of as like, you know, who knows who could be the number one pick. And, and then, you know, the NFL knew and, you know,

while maybe Baker Mayfield wasn't the top quarterback that year, Josh Allen was Josh Rosen most definitely was not. And, and, and people in the league knew it at that time. Well, and that's one thing that's really hard to factor about this is because I can watch them throw at the combine and be like, oh, I really like Pennix. And they might run an MRI on those knees and be like, no, you don't. You like him as a fifth round pick. And we saw this with Will Levis last year.

We saw this with Malik Willis, where the mock draft community was just generally very bad at knowing where these guys were going to go and tended to overrate them by quite a bit. So is McCarthy the guy that's being wildly overrated or is somebody being underrated like Bo Nix? It's just really hard to tell because even I looked at this based on the mock draft database, and it was kind of all over. It was very scattershot. Like even with Patrick Mahomes, the mock draft consensus had him as like a late first round draft pick. And then Kansas City trades way up. And a lot of those folks were like, is Kansas City crazy?

What are they doing for this guy? And so that's just how impossible it is. In a theoretical world. It would make sense to just pick 11 and leave it to like football gods take the wheel. But from an organizational perspective, how would you go to your owner and be like, Hey, nobody knows. So we just took a guy like, that's not how it works. Like you have to be in total alignment for a decision like that and totally sold from the GM to the owner, to the coach, to the offensive coordinator, to the quarterback coach. And that seems to be harder with the guys who are on the second tier of this draft class.

Yeah, I mean, you'd have to say so if you if you stayed at 11 and Kirk Cousins had gone elsewhere, you'd have to say there's at least four guys that we would take at number 11. You know, the top three guys, it'll be long gone. And then a fourth guy. And then but what and then if that guy is gone, is there a fifth guy we would take at 11 and make make him the fifth quarterback taken in the top 11? Maybe their evaluation would be that there is one and then they could probably feel comfortable, well, more comfortable. But again, because they'll have that target on their back, that doesn't preclude somebody from trading up one spot ahead of them or two spots ahead of them to get that guy out. So I just think that you have to be, if that's the path you've chosen, you have to be, to use a modern phrase, very intentional about it. And you can't just like, it wouldn't seem to be good team building to just say, okay, you know, moving to plan B and plan B is we'll get what we get. Like that doesn't feel like,

and I honestly don't think that will be their plan. Like it sure feels like just knowing the way that their processes have gone. Like I think that they have very hard cutoffs and they have very, you know, straightforward plans. Sometimes those plans are to stick around and wait and see if somebody will offer them a trade to go down. And that we've seen that play out before. But I would be surprised if that's what they do, unless there's just more than a handful of quarterbacks that they're, in their judgment, are worthy of taking at number 11. Oh, and I am curious about that because we did hear Kweisi Dafa-Mentzis say that they've had their eye on this quarterback class for years. Well, they've only been in charge for two years.

But that would, to me, suggest that they had an idea that it's more than just a one or two man class, that there were multiple players that they would be interested in. And this is the thing about the second group is, you know, we've tried in the past to talk ourselves into a Sam Howell, a Kenny Pickett, a Mac Jones, for example. These guys, I think, are legitimate prospects. I mean, when you look at their tools, their production, the worst thing they're saying about Bo Nix is he didn't throw enough long passes in route to completing almost 80% of those throws. It's like, okay, man, that's going to be a harsh criticism. Right.

That's too bad that he completed almost every pass and never threw interceptions or got sacked uh when he was playing but anyway uh how about this though as far as other options to look at is baker mayfield interesting to you at all so that's interesting to me certainly as a talking point like my feeling is that um baker mayfield has never had as good of a year as kirk cousins best years in the nfl and his worst years have been far worse than any of the years that that kirk had and so and i don't think he's going to be very cheap uh the only thing really the only thing that you would have is just youth and he's not like 22 either i'm i think he's probably in his late 20s um and so you're hitting

him right at his prime and to think that like what you've gotten to this point is going to be dramatically better moving forward you'd have to buy into the, you know, this is the quarterback heaven. And we have seen Kirk play better. And he certainly would have, and Baker certainly would have a fair number of weapons and, and a good coaching staff to work with. But that to me doesn't feel like a massive upgrade or even any upgrade. It would just be somebody who's younger and maybe you feel um more comfortable that he's gonna have some staying power but uh i don't think you're gonna

be able to get him as a bridge i think tampa wants i think tampa's gonna have i don't know what their offer is gonna be but i don't think that you're gonna beat them with a bridge offer. And so is that the guy you want for the, is that the guy, if you're Kwesi and Kevin, is that the guy you're putting your career in the hands of? That's the way to look at it. Do you, do you trust him to win you a Superbowl when like, does anyone in the league think Baker Mayfield can win a Superbowl? I don't know. So like that would seem like a consolation prize

and one that's more expensive and limiting than you would probably hope unless we're totally wrong about Tampa's interest in bringing him back. But it speaks to the fact that, like, if you're trying to get a quarterback through means other than the draft, your options are going to be limited. And it pretty much is draws a direct line through the most of the history of this franchise is it's trying to find it's trying to sift through everyone else's quarterback leftovers and and find somebody that you think you can turn into something more than what he's always been the way i look at a baker mayfield is would be sort of in case of emergency that if you didn't like any of the quarterbacks that you thought you could get at 11 you didn't get the sense that you could trade up because the top teams are taking

those quarterbacks that you actually like kirk has told you sorry guys kirk's going to atlanta and now you are sort of left holding the bag a little bit. Then you call Baker Mayfield. I think initially I was feeling like, oh, well, maybe he would take a Geno Smith short-term kind of contract. It's more year to year. And you could draft somebody and put him behind him. And it would be a Mayfield Kyle Trask type of situation as it was in Tampa Bay but as the offseason goes on here it feels more and more like he's going to be getting something like 40 million dollars a year

more in the Derek Carr Daniel Jones type of category of money and wants commitment too and that's just too much for me for one nine and eight season in Tampa Bay where they want to play off game. I have trouble making it work that way. But if you were in a total desperation mode and you're just not going to be able to get a quarterback in the draft, you could squint and make that work too. Like this is a big armed guy could push the ball down the field to Justin Jefferson. He's got some baller to him.

He's got some risk taker to him that Kirk cousins doesn't have, but it's hard to say, all right, if you're going to pay Baker $40 million, then we're in the same conundrum that we've always been in with Kirk Cousins where you have a middling quarterback and so forth. Maybe the ceiling at times could be a little higher just because of his nature of taking risks, but the floor could definitely be lower. Is there anybody that you do like as as a bridge option because the darn old thing came up and i thought no actually i kind of like that of course paired with a rookie yeah um and i and i've warmed to that as well um

and you know thought of like there's for a few reasons one um there wouldn't be any like i i don't know if anybody'd be excited about an entire year of Sam Darnold, but like we've never really seen him in a talented offense mixed with a talented coaching staff. And it was and I and it's weird, like the 49ers have such a Midas touch on offensive personnel that like Sam Darnold's stock rose in everyone's eyes just because the 49ers jumped out to sign him. And he didn't get a meaningful snap all year, I don't think, maybe a little bit. But that drew a lot of eyes that the 49ers,

who seemed to know their way around offense, wanted him very badly and signed him right away. I think that's a more palatable bridge option than certainly Mayfield because I don't think it'll be a bridge. And I question whether he'll even make the market now after seeing the Mike Evans deal that happened. Clearly, they're planning to move forward with a big time. They're not going to pair mike evans at that salary with you know a rookie quarterback or something like that i don't

think but um you know to me that sounds more palatable and interesting than than ryan tanny hill or russell wilson or some of the other veterans that you really know what you've gotten like you if if the goal is to competitively rebuild and go into the season with at least the hope for something um that's not going to be a total wash of a season then i think that on a very short-term basis would would make a lot of sense one thing that is funny is making the josh mccown connections like while mccown was there with sam darnold and then you know he's josh mccown played like played in the nfl for like 42 years and he played for almost every team and so like the the rush to make the connections with him was hysterical and awesome because just like

the pure volume of time he's spent around football relative to his life means he's connected to almost every single person that ever was connected to the NFL. So of course you can find that. But yes, one of the many is that they were teammates with the Jets and he would at least, I don't think you need to hire Josh McCown to recruit Sam Darnold to be your bridge starter, but it would probably make him better if that's who you end up signing. At least he would have some knowledge about whether that's somebody that could have some upside or how his process is or how he leads or something. I've never gotten the sense that Darnold is a personality issue. It's usually been a circumstance and also a turnover issue that he's very risky with the football.

I want to ask you about the rest of the team because so much just has to wait on this one decision. But there were other things addressed at the combine, including the defensive side of the ball, the free agency approach. And I mean, of course, it has to hinge on what they do with Kirk Cousins. But as we start to look at some of the guys coming off the board, like a Mike Evans, but also maybe Christian Wilkins is on the board. What is the feeling for what they can actually do in free agency?

Because I have some skepticism about their ability to land big fish. I know that the NFL PA survey says that everyone loves it here. I know that the Wilfs have cash and they're willing to spend it, but there are so many teams that you can make an argument for being on the cusp of competing that also have salary cap space. And one of them is Detroit. One of them is Chicago, but I mean,

especially Detroit's in the NFC championship game and they have more cap space than the Vikings. I think it's going to be a bit of a rough ride either way in free agency. And they have to rebuild a lot of their team just through signing players because they have so many openings. Like, what do you think of their approach? I think like, you know, not only because they said it, but because I think it's true.

Like I think they're just like putting this enormous amount of, of weight and pressure on Brian Flores being able to identify players who wouldn't be big fish in the open market, but would be perfect for their or or not either perfect for what he wants to do or he can create a relatively perfect scenario for them. And so I think they'll be active in free agency. They really have never been huge, you know, spenders. They brought in, you know, the Josh Olivers of the world and the Marcus Davenports of the world, but there's never been sort of the, like if Christian Wilkins gets onto the open market, like I have a hard time thinking that they'll be in, you know, as much sense as it might make. It doesn't mirror the approach they've taken um and maybe they say well he's a young

player and he's right you know he's ascending and all that kind of stuff but um i think if i had to take a informed guess right now as to what their approach will be defensively in free agency it'll be active but not um not high not high end financial um and they'll and you'll hear often like you know uh flow has a plan for him you know flow really likes him and like like i it almost is the point where like should he be the assistant general manager in addition to being defensive coordinator and i get it like it's smart team building to to you know listen to what the coaches need. And if they have the interest and ability to make specific suggestions, then definitely capitalize on it. You want to be careful because you don't want to have a situation

where Brian Flores leaves to become a head coach in a year or two and you're left with a roster of his players that the next coordinator may not follow in the exact same pattern. So you need to not lean too far in that direction. But I think that's probably what they'll do. I agree they need to be active and they will be, especially if they've given up some picks to get to move up in the draft for a quarterback. That'll be another reason to do it. Or they anticipate doing that because free agency up in the draft for a quarterback, that'll be another reason to do it. Or they anticipate doing that because free agency comes before the draft.

I had a talk last year with two years ago, Kyle Shanahan about reversing that because it would make your, your draft and make your free agency a lot less guesswork, I guess, and not dependent on who you might or might not get in, in free agency. But regardless, I, I, I think that's probably the approach they're going to do, and there's going to be some players like I don't think many Vikings fans had heard of Josh Oliver before they signed him. I'd imagine that will be not unlike a lot of their acquisitions this year.

Yeah, I think that it's going to depend on players that Brian Flores has evaluated and feels like are fits. But also, if you're Brian Flores, you are going to want some high-end talent somewhere. I mean, Josh Metellus was a playmaker for them. We don't know what Harrison Smith is doing. There is no shutdown corner on this team. So if you're just

trying to make all signings that are Byron Murphy type of signings, I think that's a good, that's a good player. It's just not a difference maker. And I think Brian Flores understands that you better have some difference makers on your team. If you're going to go somewhere, which kind of brings us to the Daniel Hunter. i have just decided daniel hunter is gone i could be wrong about this it just seems like there's going to be 27 teams that call daniel hunter's representation and say hey we would like this 16 sack guy on our football team and i just don't think the vikings are going to be able to put down the cash to keep him and also if you're him you're like you had your chance yeah over like five years and you didn't do it.

So I just think that he's probably out. Yeah. And I, and I don't like the Vikings have the cash if they want to put it on that, but they clearly don't like they, like you said, they had a chance. They've they had, they were in negotiations last summer. They didn't want to go the lock in long-term with him. And that was their value judgment and why that would change now, even though he had a great year. I don't know when pass rushers get on the open market. It's not often that it happens like like and especially at that sack number.

And but to me, like there's that. But then there's also I think Alec Lewis pointed this out. And his athletic story today is like like DJana, like he had eight sacks. He's coming off a really significant injury, and he's probably going to have a pretty big market because people like that after quarterback play and maybe now receivers, I don't know. But historically, pass rushers are the second most valuable position in football after quarterbacks. And so like the Vikings have two guys that combined for, what is that?

26, almost 27 sacks last year that are going to be free agents. And one of them, they can't franchise and the other one doesn't appear that they're, you know, are really giving any thought to doing that. And so like, that's,

that's the other part is like, you're not just talking about like giving way, you know, just basically acknowledging Daniel Hunter is out of our philosophical price zone, but like DJ wanna might be too, which is wild. And we've left Jordan Hicks out of the conversation mostly as we're talking this off season, that's been a significant player for them the last two years. I thought he was really huge last off season. no idea if he wants to come back or not i would think that he would be the guy most likely to return because of just his role in the locker room and and his relationship with floris

and so forth although his leg did have to be put back on um at last year so he is getting up there in age as well maybe that's something they don't want to do in the backfield now they have another need and i look at it as a need i know that uh the fantasy people were going crazy when they got rid of uh alexander madison for ty chandler season and those uh i don't know how fantasy drafts work, but those people are always watching every running back situation in the league. I just don't think that it's the Ty Chandler show and the Ty Chandler show only. I think that somebody like Devin Singletary, even like a J.K. Dobbins, I think he's coming off an injury. But there's got to be somebody that's paired with him, and it cannot be a draft pick.

It has to be in free agency so this is just another spot to fill or do you feel like it's ty chandler season and that's it no i think i mean especially when you consider and i think quayse even mentioned this during one of his sessions um over the in the at the combine is how many veteran running backs are going to be out there like they don't have to get saquon barkley but like there's just such a long list if you just like just you know look at the list of players from the Austin Ecklers to the Zach Moss like there's so many like why wouldn't you like like that's a value signing like those are you know you're not gonna have to pay a lot a because of the position and b because of how many how much

the supply is and there's probably going to be more out there before the end of you know before free agency starts and so I just I think that's a no brainer that they would, and even if they want to give Ty Chandler the benefit of the doubt or like give him every opportunity to be the, you know, the, the primary ball carrier, um, totally fine with that. But like, there's no reason to not have a veteran, a relatively cheap veteran on the roster as well, uh backup slash in case ty chandler isn't who uh he you thought he was and and um you need somebody else but like it's like there's just too many out there to think that like you you wouldn't dip your toes into that in some way shape or form yeah and there's such a small sample with chandler and there were ups and downs there were some great

games and there were some times where you're like, nope, that's a run to the left, not to the right. Sorry, buddy. Good guess though. Like me taking any test in school is like, well, it's A, B, C, or D. Yeah, you had a 25% chance. In his case, he had a 50% chance of being right, left or right. And sometimes did not.

But last thing for you, Kevin. The timeline of this team and the overall bigger picture with Kweisi D'Afflamenza and Kevin O'Connell as a pairing is interesting to me. Because at the Combine, I had more than one person say to me, Kweisi D'Amentz's standing with this team might not be as strong as Kevin O'Connell's. And they also might not entirely be on the same page with this quarterback situation. Now that's not me like reporting that that's just people asking about it saying, are they on the same page? Is this, is he in the good spot as a general manager right now? And I can't answer with certainty. Oh yeah, they're all good. We're all set here. And I think that this quarterback decision and what happens with that

quarterback is ultimately going to determine that as it does with every team in the league, but they're on shorter contracts than usual. They've had a couple of years at this already. You can already tell sometimes with Kevin O''connell in the way that he talks that he kind of feels it when you miss the playoffs the pressure starts to ramp up even if you had every reason to miss the playoffs with backup quarterbacks how do you feel about the overall like synergy there and where they're going as kind of a regime? Relatively fine. I think there's like, there's always this built in

difference of, you know, approach between a coach and a general manager. It's almost like a check and balance that you would want to have. And that the coach, you know, if you take the quarterback situation, the coach wants the best quarterback for next year. Totally understandable. Like he wants to win next year. That's what he's being paid to do. He's not being paid to win in 2026. The general manager is being paid to create winners over time, including 2026. And so like, that's the case everywhere. And so to the extent that anybody's reading in like sort of head-butting going on over the quarterback situation, to me, it comes across as the complete, like almost healthy checks and balance of a coach versus a GM. So I, the fact that like, like I don't read into anything like that. And on the bigger picture of Kwasi, like my own thought is, you know,

the owners, you know, parted ways with a longtime experienced GM who had been a GM, you know, for more than 20 years in the NFL, not a different way, you know, have a different process, a different way of thinking, a different way of leading. And to me, like. There's the thing last year that popped up, let Kwesi cook like you've got to let it play out unless you get to the you know, unless you get to the other side of this draft and you view this as being a colossal catastrophe. Then maybe like his job performance becomes under review by ownership. But to me, you have to if you've hired this new structure that has to be implemented and knowing it can't be implemented at the snap of a finger, like to pull the plug on it or even to question it severely after two years would seem to reveal a lot less certainty about the decision made and the approach that that decision carried than it should have. And so it doesn't mean you just let something that you clearly decided is not working to continue because you owe it to that person or you owe it to

yourself. But like, I guess I would be, you know, everybody hears different things throughout the league about, and it's true that the drafts here have not been great and they're in a position where they put everything into this offseason basket. In some ways, Kwasi's career has come down to this next few months, and that's a lot of pressure to have put on yourself, but that's where it's at. I don't sense any more separation between them than the typical coach GM having different job requirements. And I think that if the Quacey job performance thing really comes under review after two years, then that means that they did not have a very good process of getting to this point. Yeah, I agree with all that. And I just, I want to see the plan come to fruition

before I decide what I think of the regime and what I think of Kweisi Adafomensa. And I also think that if he's operating differently behind the scenes, then you would have expected from a Rick Spielman, well, that's who you hired. You hired somebody who was going to lean more on the numbers and somebody who wasn't an old school football scout and may have spoken a different language and come from a different environment. And I think if you're

not leaning into that, then you should have hired somebody who was more of an old school football person. At the same time, it is, it is a very, it's a very different environment from anything else in the United States of America to be inside of a football front office. And so I guess I am curious about just how somebody who came up in a different environment is able to step into that. And also making a lot of people happy is very hard in a front office. If Kweisi Adafo-Mensah was told, rebuild the roster on your laptop, just you, just you like you would do it on a video game. Well, he might have really good plans for that, but selling an ownership on things, selling a front office, leading a front office, all those things are challenges,

making a lot of people happy and not being afraid to make some people unhappy. Very hard things to do. Anybody who's managed a hot dog stand would tell you how hard it is to manage people and manage customers and manage ownership and so forth. And that could all be different challenges for him to go along with the difficulty of building a roster. But I want to see the rest of the picture. I feel like we've followed along with the track that they laid out with the words competitive rebuild show me the rest and if they do bring back cousins my mentality changes completely my mentality changes to all right well if this is what you're doing then every draft pick now matters so much every signing matters so much

and if you finish third in the division, then see ya. Let's go get somebody else because this didn't work. So I think we have to grade this after we know what they do at quarterback. And also the other thing I was thinking about as you were talking is that when you, I mean, to include Kevin O'Connell in that, two young and relatively inexperienced people who had not, Kevin O'Connell wasn't a coach for nearly as long as most coaches are before they become a head coach. And Kweisi Adolfo-Mensa wasn't a front office executive for nearly as long as most people are. And that's fine.

There are many ways to peel the apple. But if you said, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're turning things over to a couple young guys like there's also like the implicit and maybe even explicit expectation of like letting them grow like and knowing that the decisions Kwesi made his first year might not be as good as the ones he makes his third year whereas if you hired an experienced guy you would expect those decisions to be on point from the start. And you're banking on the growth and the potential, just as you would a young player that isn't going to be as good in his first career game as he might be in his 30th career game. And so, and we don't usually think about coaches and GMs in those ways because there's only 32 of each of them

and there's thousands of players and they come and go. But like, that's really what they did. They said like, you know, like, I mean, they didn't say it, but like they, that's what their actions told us is that we are gonna hire some people we think are very good candidates for these jobs. And they have displayed a lot of potential and room to grow.

And if we're going to and you're going to judge them, either of them solely based on the decisions they made in years one and two and not give them a chance to realize the potential that you were hiring them for in the first place, then again, not a good process. Yeah, I totally agree. I'd like to see patience here, but asking for patience from NFL owners might as well be asking me not to eat Taco Bell. So it just, you know, our jobs would be a lot less entertaining if owners were patient, then we just say, oh, I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens. But in this case, the next time you and I talk on a podcast will probably be when we know who the quarterback is going to be or if they're going to draft one.

So I really appreciate you taking the time to preview Decision 2024. And we'll talk again very soon. Thanks for your time, man. Thanks for having me.