Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Kevin Seifert sees a path to Sam Darnold staying with the Vikings

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Matthew Coller and ESPN's Kevin Seifert discuss the Vikings QB situation and dive inside the team's thinking and what the final four games might mean. Plus Dallas Turner getting more opportunity and his key role down the stretch. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, along with ESPN's Kevin Seifert inside TCO Performance Center. We just walked out of a very intense Vikings practice as they prepare for the Chicago Bears on Monday night. That's what everybody's talking about, right, Kevin? Vikings, Bears, hardcore previews of this game. No other important storylines with quarterbacks or anything? No, I don't think so. We haven't talked about it all year, so why should anybody start talking about it now?

It wasn't that long ago that you and I sat in this room or the room next to us here, and we talked about last year, what are they going to do with the quarterback position? How are they going to move on from Kirk cousins? What will they do? And the answer was, well, I guess they're going to have to draft a quarterback. They did that seem like, all right, problem solved. The future is clear. It's JJ McCarthy's franchise and Sam Darnold, not so fast. So the world wants to know, Kevin, where do you stand on what Sam Darnold has done and how the organization views the future of the quarterback position? He has been wildly better than anybody could have imagined, both inside the organization and out. And that's not a shot at anybody's evaluation tools or skills or Sam Darnold himself.

I mean, he's been in this past month or so a top five quarterback in the entire league. Over the course of the season, easily a top half of the league quarterback, if not better. His confidence appears to be building in a week-to-week basis, both in the way he plays and just really the way he carries himself in the little bit amount of time that we interact with him, which has been very noticeable. I think the Vikings still regard, and it's not my opinion, this is my, I guess, sort of reporting. I think that the Vikings still regard JJ McCarthy as the future of the franchise. It's just what's malleable here is when that starts. And I think that was always the case. They weren't just going to force JJ McCarthy onto the field after a season-ending injury if all the development work that they had been doing didn't take the way they hoped or his

need needed more time to recover and pushed take the way they hoped or his need needed more time to recover and pushed into the off season and threatened his OTAs or what have you and limited his development that way. So I don't think they ever were like 100% locked into JJ as the starter at 2025. It was a working plan and theory and still might end up being the case. But at the very least, I think Sam Darnold has created a good problem for them to have in that they are open minded, I think, to the idea of what season where he's pretty good against the Packers first half, not so great in the second half. Then the Jets game is a little bit down, and then it's the Jaguars game, and Indianapolis in there is okay. If it's that section for the whole season, then you would go, all right, well, hey, that's good quarterback play. That's better than they would have thought. And if they were a team that right now was sitting at eight wins, you would still say, wow, what a good season for

the Vikings compared to where everybody thought they were going to be there in the hunt. They're in the race with Sam Darnold. He's turned around his career. He's going to sign with the Raiders this off season. It's just been so much better than that. It's been so much more consistent than that. I don't remember any other quarterback here who had a hundred quarterback rating in, what is it now? 11 out of 13 games who has consistently been graded well by PFF, who has put up numbers, who has led game winning drives. And the character stuff that you bring up is important too, because I think if Darnold

was playing okay and was kind of, eh, you know, whatever with this team, I'm playing for the contract and that kind of thing. But even when there's been opportunities to sort of play for the contract, getting hurt in Chicago, he could have said, all right, Nick Mullins, you finish this one out, whatever, recent weeks where we've seen some real emotion out of him. It has been a full and complete buy-in to this franchise for Sam Darnold. And it's also been clutch. It's been big moments. Every single box that you check, if you had no idea who J.J. McCarthy is, people would be just talking about the Vikings found their quarterback that's going to be here for years. And I think a lot of people from the outside nationally are thinking that as well. They know JJ McCarthy's here. But in the biggest picture possible, you've got a 27-year-old quarterback who's playing top five level football, demonstrated every raw skill that every draft analyst and team

thought they saw in the 2018 draft and is using that for his success it's not just like he has a strong arm whatever like some of the plays they've made as a team have been not solely but very strongly because of the throw that he can make that most team most quarterbacks can't and so he's not just like caretaking their offense right now he's like leading it in a, in a, in a on field sense as well, in terms of the types of throw they're building plays based on the types of throws he can make. And a lot of quarterbacks can't so that you watch that from the outside. And I can see where in Alex Smith or, um, anybody else who's been sort of outspoken

about it and say, they'd be crazy to let this guy go. 27 years old, great character, clearly has a connection with the coaching staff, which isn't going anywhere, and the receivers who aren't going anywhere, and the offensive line, and what would make you not do it? And, well, finances do come up. And that part of it, to me, is a little bit overstated. I think also with the what are you going to do with mccarthy then because there's answers to these questions with darnold and if we go and we'll talk about what you want to see from him over these final four games but

if we go down the stretch he plays extremely well they end up in the divisional round and let's say that's as far as they get but he plays well. It's very difficult to walk away from that, but you do have a franchise tag in the bag. We've seen mid-contracts for guys like this with Geno Smith and with Baker Mayfield that keep the salary cap hits low. And J.J. McCarthy was not drafted at age 24. He was drafted at age 21. I mean, even the Atlanta Falcons with Michael Penix, they drafted him. Well, they had a quarterback under contract for at least a couple of years because around the league, we've seen some of these development projects come to fruition. Jordan Love is the

best example recently that, well, what are the Packers doing drafting him? Well, they've got Aaron Rodgers and when are they going to play Jordan Love year after year? Well, he develops, he finally gets in, and then he's part of a really competitive team. It's not like doing that ruins your franchise. In fact, it probably sets it up even better to have McCarthy start because now you've reached the point, I mean, later, to develop and have Darnold start, but to start later because now you've reached the point where if Darnold just comes and then goes

and wins 13 games, guess where the bar is set for JJ McCarthy in his very first year as a starter, it's set at 13 games. And I also think there has to be a locker room dynamic too, of a, didn't we just see this guy play incredibly well? Are, are we sure we're going to move on from him? Because if you're Jefferson and you're Addison you got you got to be pumped you get to catch 40 50 yard passes all the time from this freak well it's funny because I you know I remember Justin Jefferson saying last year he hoped Kirk Cousins would come back that would be perfect but in the end we're gonna be good no matter what because essentially I'm so good and I think Addison is kind of getting to that point as well from his performance I don't know that he said it that way

but um and and I was the first one to say last year at this time that they'd be setting themselves up for at least a you know if they were let Kirk Cousins go they'd be setting themselves up for at least a short-term step back and here they are with it very much not being the case and so and there were a lot of players, you know, starting, and I was asking them in the spring, you know, Harrison Phillips, Harrison Smith, a lot of veteran guys, like, are you sure you're what you've signed up to do here? Like, are you okay with the fact that you're going to take a step back? And because that's what happens when there's quarterback transitions, usually in the NFL. And they were like, we're not buying the premise,

basically. And, you know, we're Harrison Smith saying like everyone, you know, the league is so crazy and unusual that like every year there's stuff that people all across the league agree on is going to happen because that's what has always happened. And it's not. season, but he was saying like, you, you can, you can talk yourself into circles and into a corner by just assuming certain things are going to happen because they've happened in the past. And so I don't want to just assume that because McCarthy, if McCarthy becomes the starter next year, that means they're going to be a worse team. I mean, they might not be 13 wins or whatever, but they'd still be a playoff caliber type team. Like I can't write that. My experience of this year has told me, like, don't write that off just as a as a rule. I keep going back to and this is way you said you couldn't think of a quarterback who's played this way.

And I think that's probably accurate. But the closest way that analogy I can come to is 1999. Jeff George was my first year covering the team. And Randall Cunningham had started the year and they didn't I think they were two and four to start and they weren't playing very well Jeff George replaces him at halftime of a game at the old Pontiac Silverdome Detroit and just goes YOLO on it like yeah he's throwing the ball he's got Randy Moss and Chris Carter two future hall of famers and he's like I've got this gun of an arm and I'm using it. And all

the throws that people in the past have told me I shouldn't make because you know, they're not safe enough. They will be with these guys. And he just, he throws for like 215 yards and two touchdowns and a half against the lions. And they go on to finish like eight and two and they make the playoffs, get to the divisional round, lose to the Rams who ended up being the division champions. And then they don't really make much of an effort to re-sign him because they have Dante Culpepper on their team. And I remember being right at the front of the line. The Vikings are making a huge mistake. How could they trust Dante Culpepper?

He spent the whole year on the third string and didn't play at all. And when he did play in the preseason, it didn't even look very good. And now they're just going to turn it over to him. Dennis Green is going to get fired. You know, the whole thing is going to blow up. And they come out in the 2000 season and they get to the NFC championship game. And he's really good and ends up being their starter until he gets his knee hurt four or five years later.

And so I have just been like, keep getting pulled back, uh, by these historical things that have happened to like, not just rule out, uh, that if they do turn to McCarthy, it's going to be a terrible year. Um,

and so we'll see. No. And I think JJ McCarthy was so good during training camp and during that one preseason game. And what we saw from him, the progression was so impressive that that's why they're not coming out right now and declaring sam darnold our guy that's why they're not working on negotiations because they really truly do believe in what they saw

in jj mccarthy and everything we've heard about mccarthy's work ethic behind the scenes here his weekly meetings with kevin oConnell, the virtual reality, which apparently we weren't supposed to know about, but we do know about now that they've been working on and McCarthy putting in the effort. And all that is a great problem to have that you have a young kid who's doing everything you want them to do behind the scenes. But I also think that the NFL has gotten good at understanding how to manipulate windows with the salary cap. So just for example, this year they're paying $40 million on the salary cap to the quarterback position because of Kirk plus Darnold plus McCarthy. And yet here we are, they're an 11 and two football team. It didn't ruin the entire season. So you can, you can really have your cake and eat it too with this situation because of the franchise tag. So even though it's this big debate topic, should they extend him? Should they turn over to JJ? It's kind of like, you've got this middle option that still allows you to bring him

back and take another shot at it next year while also leaving the door open to eventually make JJ McCarthy, your franchise quarterback. And then if Darnold goes and wins the 2025 Super Bowl, then, well, OK, then you trade McCarthy or something. But I think that they can really half step this one if they want to. But how important do you think the final four games and the playoffs will be to their decision in this process? Yeah, I think they are going to be important, but I think it's to either maintain or disrupt the trend line that is happening here. So you could create a narrative that's accurate of Darnold's season that he started off,

was playing okay, then had some ups and downs through about the middle of the season as he's getting used to this offense and just learning more about being a full-time starter at this level and then turned it around after the Jacksonville game and went like this. And if that continues, or even if it just like peters, it can't go much higher, but like if it peters off and just stays plateaued and he plays like a top five quarterback the rest of the year, regardless of the outcomes, regardless of whether they win the rest of their games or split them some way, whether they win a playoff game or not. If his level of play stays at that level, you can go into the offseason making a, you know, feeling really good about that.

He established something. If it goes back down the other way, you end the season thinking like he's what a lot of people thought, an up and down kind of guy. And maybe it's not somebody that we need to disrupt our long term plan with. I also think, though, and I'm sure we'll get to this more, is like a big part of the evaluation is not just Darnall. It's McCarthy. Like you mentioned the virtual reality and the meetings with O'Connell. Like, did those work? Just because they're doing it, just because he's putting a VR mask on and watching the video of the camera that's on Sam Darnold's helmet during practice, did he absorb it? Did he make enough progress that you think

he knows enough about playing in the NFL that you can pencil him in for as the main guy for next year with a Daniel Jones type veteran with him probably or or is he not going to be ready and then the physical part too it sounds like he's starting to ramp things up a little more and doing Kevin O'Connell has used the word twice that you know the phrase turning the corner he's so he's he I guess he's doing more stuff but like he's not he he's not allowed to practice. So there's only so much he can do. And that's just by NFL rule. And so they have to decide all those kind of things in conjunction with do we trust Darnold? Do we feel like this is a good cap situation for us to go into? Also, like the biggest one to me, like beyond like what you think of Darnold is like, is McCarthy even ready? Do we even need to have this conversation or are we comparing, you know, whether Darnold should come back or should a guy

who hasn't practiced at all and is basically going to start over as a rookie next year should be our starter? That's an easy decision. But the hard one and the good decision, the good problem to have, but the hardest decision to make is do we bring back a really good Darnold or do we follow our instincts that everything we think about JJ McCarthy is that he's going to be ready next year. And if they had practiced this year and McCarthy was on the sideline as the backup for the entire season and got in a couple of games when Darnold got banged up or something, or even when they were up by 21 points to take a few snaps. And they could see him and see him and see him. They would have so much better of an idea of where he's going to be.

I always think that when you see people from the outside saying, oh, so-and-so should trade for Trey Lance from the 49ers. My thing is he's been in their building for a couple of years. They probably have a good sense for what's going on there with somebody like that. And you don't have as much of a good sense. I mean, yes, you could bring him into a meeting room and he can drop the plays for the guys and have a great attitude and so forth. But is he ready to run this entire offense at this type of level? Because over these last four weeks, especially the whole body of work is great. I mean, just in comparison to every other quarterback in the league, there's only five guys that you would say are definitively better than him the entire season, the full body of work. But these last four weeks, it has been

all the things that have become cliche when Kevin O'Connell talks, rhythm and timing, playing within the structure of the offense. I mean, that Atlanta film is remarkable. How many plays are dropped back? See what you're supposed to see. Correct. Read, throw it. Dan Orlovsky on ESPN did an amazing virtual reality thing with the next gen stuff of breaking down how Sam Darnold saw play the way it was drawn up, got the look, delivered the

ball on time to a pinpoint spot and now that he has gotten some help it seems with the physical elements the the footwork and all that again stuff that o'connell talks about endlessly he's playing like a technically good quarterback this isn't just the guy who ran around made some wild plays it's not case keenum doug flutie back in the 90s at the end of the 90s or even jeff george heaving the ball up just playing backyard football for 10 games this is a dude really playing within the structure and then adding on to that other stuff that i have been more convinced of the idea of keeping him around when i see that show up on tape yeah and and

there's all that is true and the other thing that for me has really stood out. And I think this is, you know, for all the, all the, uh, accolades of Kevin O'Connell gets as like an offensive play caller and a schemer and a guy who's drawing up plays where there's always people running open, like that's all true. And I'm not like downplaying that at all. I truly think as much importance, if not more has been the way he's been able to make Sam Darnall confident and to trust what's happening and to not, and, and, and not, not to just like not think, but to be confident that you can get the ball where it's supposed to go, that you know, that your reads are telling you where to go to. Um, and that's part of the system, the Viking system as well, is that there's a very kind of structured way of, of going read to read to read, but like, it doesn't matter how strong your arm is. It doesn't

matter how quick you can be to get, to move in the pocket. Uh, if you're not confident in what you're doing and you're not confident in who you are, um, then there's only so the ceiling is very low. And that's what Kevin O'Connell has just like destroyed. He's destroyed so the ceiling is very low and that's what kevin o'connell has just like destroyed he's destroyed that low ceiling that i think probably sam had after the the career that he'd had to this point and raised it up and like like said hey there's all this space that you can occupy like you're actually good enough to occupy this high space and and sometimes I think it's just from the overt like you know telling him he's really good and but also just like treating him like he's he's really good in front of the team showing the good plays that he does um he did that with Kirk Cousins as well like look a team like look how good Sam Darnold is look what he's doing and like when you're a player and you're

sitting there listening to that not all coaches do that a lot of them will show the opposite. Look how terrible this throw was. Look how lucky we were that this didn't screw it up. Just to have that type of, you know, and it doesn't necessarily, not every player wants that or needs that, but I think Sam Darnold did. And that to me is, has played as big of a role in his development and his success as anything. And for me, that's what he needs to take into account if he ends up being on the free agent market and weighing offers. He knows for a fact it's not that way everywhere. Oh, that's for sure. And even what Kevin O'Connell told us after the game that when Darnold came to the sideline, and I don't think that this stuff is something that O'Connell thinks about

so much as it's his set position. It's his base is to say to Darnold, do you know how many quarterbacks make that throw? And the insinuation is very, very few. And he would be correct about the throw that he made to Justin Jefferson. But that type of attitude toward his quarterback is always believing in them more than they believe in themselves has had a pretty tangible impact on a couple of guys. I mean, we saw Nick Mullins nearly win some games, even then, you know, as, as wild as they were, he was very close to winning those games because he said, air it out, like throw the ball where it's supposed to go. The throws to me that really show Darnold's confidence are the ones

where when you stop the tape and you look and you go, how, how did you see that? How do you know where that's going? But that's the play. That's the practice. And that's not, he was waiting earlier in the season to see something and then saying, okay, now I'll just throw it as hard as I can. He threw one to Hawkinson where Hawkinson is behind a linebacker. It looks like when he starts to wind up, he's just going to throw a pick. He throws it 10 yards out in front of him. Hawkinson runs right to the football. It was like, whoa, that is anticipation.

But anticipation is also preparation and knowing where the ball is supposed to go. You throw it to the right hash on the second read, and we're seeing him really get those things. To me, that level of quarterback play, it's not easy to reach. And that's why let's not overdo it with the salary cap thing. And I've made this point and maybe you see it differently. Every team in the NFC playoffs right now, except for Washington, has a quarterback they paid. It's not impossible if you're a good organization to work around it especially in a short period of time and but here's the sort of the other side of that um in a short time for sure but if they were to you know if and when they get to a point even with McCarthy of um paying the quarterback quarterback level

like they need to draft better I mean you're really shaking the camera a lot there. Sorry about that. Sorry, everybody. I'm an amateur, so he's the pro. Pretend you're touching the table. He, like, now I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry. You want me to circle back?

Anticipation throws, salary cap, teams in the NFC. Yes. I mean, they have to draft better um in order to in order to get um to be able to comfortably absorb a a quarterback salary and so like one of the reasons that a jj mccarthy starting quarterback uh situation is so attractive to them is that they will be able they have signed a bunch of free agents this year and with the idea that they would probably have a rookie contract next year and they can keep doing that uh they have not yet gotten the the volume production out of their drafts in the three years of the

o'connell adofo mensa era to um to be able to kind of safely do that. And so like, to me, like that's at least something to consider as well as like there, you know, that that's when they traded all the draft picks for Dallas Turner, you know, that was, you know, I don't even know how much of an opportunity they have to recoup this

volume that they already were in a deficit in before they had traded all those picks. So I just think that like, that's something you also have to keep into account in terms of the overall team building. It's like quarterbacks most important. If Sam Darnold's by far the best quarterback they can put out there, they need to figure out a way to do that and they will,

but like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul at some way, at some point. I think as a short window, there's things that are in place that allow teams to pry that open and get around it. The other thing is, too, that weirdly players they didn't draft undrafted players, players they find randomly seem to just be showing up and doing stuff. Jalen Redman is good now. Like, I don't know. Gabriel Murphy's out there playing. Ivan Pace

has confirmed that he is a very good and significant player for them. The guys that they signed in the offseason are here for multiple seasons. They've got extensions that don't become super expensive like Derrissaw and Jefferson for at least a couple of more years and a short period of time. I think it's feasible to do over a long period. It would take hitting on draft picks, making shrewd decisions with free agency, not just being able to go to free agency and be like millions of bucks who wants to come to Minnesota. So as a long-term issue for sure, but I don't think they have to make it a long-term issue just for next year, which is why it's probably a bit of an overrated debate,

a topic because there is this mechanism to make it work in the short term and then figure it out later. Yeah. And so maybe it's a conversation, just a larger team building conversation. Cause I do think it's relevant, you know, even if it doesn't preclude what they want to do, a quarterback, you know, the overtime, you mentioned, you know, the Ivan paces and the Jalen Redmonds of the world overtime. I think we can all agree that your best chance is to find blue chip hall of fame type players and impact players, not just

somebody that you can use as part of a winning team, but like impact players is through the draft. And so there's going to be a point where unless they just hit on all of their free agent picks, free agent signings every year and have over the top success in undrafted free agency that relative to other teams that they're going to have a middle gap of a big hole in their roster. And so again, not something that can't be fixed, but something that you have to take into account when you think about the future team building here. Let's talk about Dallas Turner for a bit while we're on this. So most of the year, I've kind of not really wanted to talk a

lot about it because I understand they gave up a lot of draft picks and he is expected to be a great player right away when you do that. But then look who's playing ahead of him it's all these great players who are top 10 in pff and pressures and van ginkles trying to get pick sixes every time and where was he going to play but as we go down these final four games he's going to have to play we saw that against the falcons i thought he had his moments uh one of them setting the edge against kyle pitts where he stopped the run. And then the hit on Kirk Cousins was very impressive. And Brian Flores revealed to us that he and Dallas Turner kind of had a one-on-one and some time to go over everything with him and where he stands right now. And then he said, well, no, I do this with a lot of players. Do you do that with everybody or just the guy who's a first round pick who it looks like you're really going to need as this team has gotten worn down? What do you make of where Dallas Turner stands and what he can be for them in the short term? I keep going back to when he was acquired or when they drafted him. Brian Flores did an interview,

I think, with the Vikings Entertainment Network, and people had been comparing Dallas Turner to Will Anderson, who was the Alabama pass rusher prior year and was, I think, the third pick overall by Houston and kind of just a natural edge rusher, like you're putting him on the edge and set it and forget it kind of player. And Tatum Everett asked Brian Flores about that. And he goes, well, the guy I think more of is Dante Hightower. And Dante Hightower was sort of an

all-around linebacker for the Patriots when Flores was there. Very good, you know, big part of their Super Bowl wins there. And I remember especially, I think he had a huge sack in the game where they came back against the Falcons. But he was not a guy that you just put on the edge and said, go get me 15 sacks. Now, and so like that's either the role that he had in mind for Dallas Turner or the skill set that he saw or both. And so I think that's made it a little bit harder to judge Dallas because they're not just putting him on the, they're trying to use him that way. They're not just putting him on the edge and saying, rush the passer on third down there. You know, we've seen him in sort of off ball linebacker. We've seen him inside, we've seen him drop some. And so that, um, that makes it a little bit harder, but I also think that like,

you can't argue that he's like had all these hidden impacts that that we wouldn't see because we don't understand the Dante Howard high tower position well enough like if he if he was having a great year we'd know um if he was having uh even a good year I think they would have played him more um he is playing a little bit more now but there was a long gap there in the middle where he was not and even now more means like a third of the snaps. So very targeted time. And I know you don't want to take Jonathan Grenard off the field. You don't want to take Andrew Van Ginkle off the field.

But we're getting into week 15 here. These guys have played a ton of snaps. You have to take them off the field. And I think that they know that. And so I always looked at people asked at the trade deadline, are they going to try to get somebody or whatever? And I always thought like maybe Dallas Turner could be kind of like a trade deadline type person who in the second half of the season is going to get it and be able to contribute a lot more. And like that would be the addition to your defense. And the best thing I saw from him against the Falcons was

that he just looked fresh. Yes. He was a young guy just running, chasing people down from behind. He really accelerated. He wasn't blocked on the Cousins hit, but what he did was really accelerate into them and got there very quickly, and so that was noticeable. They need that. They just need a young guy running around, getting places fast and putting pressure on offenses. And so even if they can do that, I think that would be a nice conclusion to his rookie year.

I would definitely hope for a lot more next year. But even if he can get to that point, then that would sort of salvage what had been sort of a worrisome stretch there. I don't think it's very hard to see the traits and talent when you watch it back and you go, okay, I know what players talk about of chasing somebody down. They throw a pass, he's dropping back in coverage. They blitz from the other side and he just motors and races the guy down from behind before the safeties can even get there to make the tackle and that type of acceleration it looks like a safety yeah and it's a much bigger man than that so i understand what their process was to look at him and go this guy can catch the football we see him in practice like making catches he's a very fluid athlete. He doesn't necessarily accelerate or look like a pure edge

rusher like those guys do, but it looks like a space player when he's out there doing it. I'm sure for Dallas Turner though, mentally, this has been very difficult. It's not easy to play for Brian Flores and it's even harder to change roles. And this is something that Andrew Van Ginkle had to do when he came into the league. And he was also Turner's one of the youngest players in the entire NFL right now. He came in at, I think, 21 years old, which now is extremely young as an NFL draft pick. Him and JJ McCarthy. Right. A lot of them are 24. And what I want to be willing to do is just be very patient with this because it's different.

But what we know is if it pays off, it becomes incredibly stupidly valuable to be able to line up a guy wherever you want, drop them into coverage anytime you want. And the opposing quarterback has no idea what he's supposed to do with this player. So even if Van Ginkle stays for two years and then there's a succession plan to Turner, even in year two, we'll be saying, why did they spend so much draft capital? And then by year four, we might be going, oh, he's in the pro bowl. I don't know that that's how it's going to go. But I also know that Flores kind of has a timeline for everybody. And if he can do what he did last week and add just a little bit more, just went off

the edge, beat a tackle, use the quickness, get it, get it. Pressures that are quick and fast to get around somebody, put a move on somebody. I think we'll start to feel like something has been growing here for him. And you talk about where they could be toward the end of the year with Jalen Redmond now being a dude that they can use in the middle. They could be a little better off, but it doesn't feel better off at this moment. end of the year with Jalen Redmond now being a dude that they can use in the middle they could be a little better off but it doesn't feel better off at this moment so are you concerned the defense where they stand the last few weeks they have given up a lot of yards and anytime a team says

well you know we got those red zone stops so we're not worried about the yards I'm like you really should be worried about the yards, though. It wasn't just garbage time against Atlanta. They got a lead. Atlanta's down by eight, and they go whoop right down the field and score a touchdown. It's been very leaky lately, and they've had to rely on Sam Darnold to win these last couple games.

Yeah, I think both of the past two games, the Falcons and the Cardinals, they got to halftime and the opponents had run like twice as many plays. It was like 40 to 20 in plays. And then like time possession was like 20 to 10, you know, around there. And so like, that's, that's worrisome. That makes it very hard in the second half, obviously. And you're glad you're at home for those situations. You're glad that the opponents were not the Lions and the Packers in those situations, for example. And so like that, yeah. And I asked Flores about the yardage and like, how much do you, you know, you put, if you're, you know, if you're evaluating from a statistical standpoint,

I know everyone does the defenses by yards. That's not the best way to decide who the best defense is, but it's part of it. It's, you know, like if, if you're not giving up yards, it's going to be really hard to be a bad defense. If you're giving up yards, it's going to be a lot harder to be a good defense. They've managed to do it. How have they done it by takeaways, primarily some decent red zone, but they're not like the best red zone defense in the NFL or anything. Um, and sacks, you know, so basically pushing people back. So you get, if you, if you get pushed back eight yards by a sack and then you have a nine-yard completion, even if that only gets you to fourth and five, you still gain another nine yards.

And so that's something to consider as well. And so it sounds like Flores is not downplaying it. He's not saying that we're terrible because we're giving up a bunch of yards, but they need to tighten it up. And what he said they were going to do today, Wednesday, uh, in week 15 in the middle of December has, and they're having a full pads practice out there. And he said, we're working on tackling. He said, a lot of the issues are we were have people where they're supposed to be, but we're not bringing people down. So here they are a veteran defense defense, 11-2, December 10th or whatever today is.

They're going to do a full pads tackling practice. And that doesn't mean all the way to the ground, but it means tackling drills. And that's notable. I think so. And that Tyler Algier run where he pinballed off a couple people and they had him in the backfield. I could see why, if you're a defensive coordinator, you are very displeased with that because you drew up something that worked great.

And I've thought that the reason they haven't been bringing people down is that they're gassed. I mean, Harrison Phillips, for example, and I know that his role cannot be perfectly captured by PFF grades. So, you know, consider that. But the last two years, the middle of the season, he's got great numbers. And then he starts to slide toward the end of the year. He was more of a 500 snap guy. Now they want him to be a 700, 800 snap guy. There's a 17th game.

There's a lot, there's just a lot more strain on these guys' bodies. And this is why a Jalen Redmond, Dallas Turner, Gabriel Murphy, even Fabian Moreau coming in, that might help Stephon Gilmore. I thought Stephon Gilmore was getting pretty worn down toward the end of the season. So one more thing, because we've got to go to the locker room here in a minute. Last four games, what is the biggest thing that you want to see them do that could convince you as we walk out of ford field week 18 this team could do it folks this key this team could win the super bowl like what could they do in these next four games to convince you that honestly

maintain you know like there's not as we said earlier there's not a whole lot of room the defense could stop giving up yardage but like there's not a whole lot of room. The defense could stop giving up yardage, but there's not a whole lot of room in terms of their performance. They're playing the best football they've played all year. That's what you want to be doing heading into the playoffs, so just don't have peak too early. I guess that's the silly way of saying it. If they can keep getting this level of play from the quarterback,

the receivers stay healthy, no more injuries on the offensive line, and the defense tightens up the yardage situation a little bit. I don't know if they'll be talked about as much on NFL Live and Fox Radio and all those different things, but I think they should be considered just as big of a favorite to get to the Super Bowl as any NFC team if they can do that. I'm sure the Jets will make some headlines that will take up most of the TV time, but we'll see how that ends up going. I think I want to see the defense play better because they're playing some good quarterbacks here.

Caleb Williams is good. Geno Smith's having a good year. And we know what Jordan Love and Jared Goff can do. The defense tightening up would be big. And I also want to see one of these games. They're not going to win. So how do they respond for? I just don't think they're going to win every single game since.

I mean, they could. They definitely could. But even if they were to go two and two, if they lose, if they shock us and lose to the Bears, it's possible. They're so worn down and everything. And the Bears coming off a terrible game, maybe trying to show some life to prove eberflus wrong or something you just never know with division games when they lose a game what's the next one like what's the response is it going to be ah man you know that's that's a big hit for us or will it be water under the bridge quickly and they bounce back and they go back to being themselves, that will make somewhat of a difference for me, I think. Yeah, I think that's fair. And,

you know, and I look at, you mentioned the Bears, I look at Seattle, like I can't remember the last time they won in Seattle. Top of my head, I need to research that, but this is Bears week, so I'm focused on Bears. But, you know, that's, you know, those games that have always tended to be tough ones. And then two, you know, great teams, you know, at the end of the year, Packers and Lions. So, like, if they maintain and finish 4-0, wow. Like, I mean, there would be a chance that they'd have the home field advantage if the Lions just lose one game in that stretch.

And that would be wild. Or if not, they'll at least have some home games um somewhere along the line in the playoffs and so if they could do that and win all four that you know but even if they just maintain their level of play and they just get beat by some teams that also are playing at a very high level that will not uh dampen my uh thoughts about what they could do in the playoffs 500 the rest of the way get you to 13 wins can't say when we did our training camp practice uh podcasts after in this room that we really thought that that was possible but here we are it's all anything is possible as kevin garnett said with the minnesota vikings kevin c for espn thanks so much for your time man

and uh we will certainly be tracking the situation with the quarterback so thank you for your insight i just won't be pounding the table any further. You were, you were more of like massaging the table. I got excited at one point and we, we, we corrected the, the error. That's what you have sometimes mid game, mid halftime, you make some adjustments and you, and you play a lot smoother in the second half. And I did it with positivity. So I thought, I thought that, you know, exactly. All right. Okay. Everyone. We'll see you later. Football.