Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - ESPN's Kevin Seifert shares his feeling on JJ McCarthy's camp so far

Episode Date: August 2, 2025

Hey everybody, welcome inside TCO Performance Center. Matthew Coller here with another Purple Insider episode. And look who's joining me. It is Kevin Seifert from ESPN. And Kevin, you ready to talk about your emotions? Because that's what this podcast is. This is a podcast about our feelings. You've changed the brand, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah, we're going to talk a lot. Well, but it's also connected to football as well. And football feelings. Exactly. Your feelings from watching football. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to start right out with this.

I want you to use descriptive words about your feelings of watching JJ McCarthy through the first week I want you to use descriptive words about your feelings of watching JJ McCarthy through the first week and a half of full practices. Like what word would you use to describe your emotions of watching JJ McCarthy? I mean, the first word that comes to mind is fun. You know, like that, and not to be corny about it,

but it is fun to follow. We've been following the story now for, since the drafts, probably 15, 15 16 months if more than that and it's kind of cool to actually see it play out like this was the vision that they had you know whether he was gonna play last year had he not got hurt we never know but this was the vision they had I think is for this season for all the work they did on the other on the front side of the draft and then the work they've done since with him and with their entire roster.

And to me, the top line thing is that it's just been fun to watch it play out. It hasn't all been great, but it hasn't been something that would reduce the level of fun that I've been having. I think is focused an emotion? Probably not, but that's how I feel. Like where- You're better than me.

In the past, say when Kirk Cousins was the quarterback, I would spend some reps watching the backup linebacker. People have asked me, how does Michael Juergens look? And I'm like, well, I haven't really focused on the backup center a lot because I'm focused. I am, I got tunnel vision with every single rep that JJ McCarthy is taking and I think that there are pluses and minuses To that because we are noticing every single detail every single rep Who's he building chemistry with how did he do in the red zone?

What's KOC saying to him after a play when they look at the video board out there? but I also think there's a little danger in that, which is the over evaluation of practices that are meant to improve things. And as you mentioned, we have seen some ups and downs. We've seen a couple of great practices. We've also seen some practices where the ball wasn't able to come out because of the defense and the accuracy has not been exactly flawless from JJ McCarthy so far. How are we supposed to balance watching every rep, having fun,

being focused, excited, joyful for football to be back, intrigued and fascinated by what could come with this season, but also understand we are covering the very beginnings of a training camp here and there's still a long way away from actually playing football. Yeah. And I think you have to do all the above. Like from my perspective, um, working for national outlet, like the quarterback is going to be a huge percentage of what I'm asked to write about, talk about, think about. And so whether it was J. J. McCarthy or whether it was Sam

Darnold or Kirk Cousins, that's probably what I personally would be focused on. And I would not have a great answer for the backup center on any year. But that will always come. And so I just think that's the story of the camp, whether you're looking at it at a granular level or you're looking at it at a granular level or you're looking at it from a national level.

And because we know there's, I mean, this is, people talk about how good the team is, how veteran it is. Like, we know this is a good team around him. Like, there's enough proven people and enough proven depth and enough proven schemes and enough proven coaches to know that, like, we don't have to evaluate whether this defense is going to have a good pass rush or whether Justin Jefferson is going to be getting open or if Jordan Mason is going to run over people or Aaron Jones is going to find ways to squeeze through.

They've done that before. And unless they all have these physical breakdowns at the same time, they're going to do it again. And so really, the question about the team, you know, and it would be maybe in some other years as well, but more than ever is the quarterback. And so I have felt like it's, it would almost be like you'd be overthinking yourself to go over to the defense and see how the third cornerback situation is looking while it's important.

And it might be even more important if there's injuries and all of a sudden the third and the fourth cornerbacks are the first and the second cornerbacks but at this point like I feel like that's the place to be. No I totally agree and when it comes to trying to project out watching the practices and seeing like what do we think that he can be within this offense I don't think that I have quite the answer yet to that, because I just don't think that we've seen enough practices. And this is another challenging thing,

because I want to have big takeaways. And even though we make fun of some of the ESPN people for having strong opinions, even with less information sometimes, we all want to do that. We all want to call it. We all want to call it. We all want to say like, oh, I think JJ is going to throw for X number of yards. Or I think this is going to be his favorite receiver

or he's going to struggle with this, that, and the other thing. When in this camp should we start to say, I feel like I'm on solid ground with what he can be because there's just been so many days of some great throws and some struggles and but but is there a date you have in mind is there a time of this training camp where we should see the progress and see it start to come together I don't think in training camp we're gonna have like it you know maybe some people will I don't anticipate having an overall high

top-line, is he going to be good or not? Is he going to throw for 3,000 yards? Is he going to throw for 4,000 yards? I don't anticipate feeling that that's going to be a responsible answer and maybe I'm being too timid in the world of hot takes. But what I think, and this has started even before training camp, is we just have to take what we do know about him and start building the blocks, and building the foundation of the overall path that's going to take us to the answer that you're talking about. Before training camp, I think we knew a couple of things.

We knew that to the extent that there was any concern about the arm strength, that that was not going to be an issue. He wasn't going to have a Brett Favre arm, but he also doesn't have a noodle arm. Like he can make the throws that need to be an issue. He wasn't going to have a Brett Favre arm but he also doesn't have a noodle arm. Like he can do make the throws that need to be made and we also I think could feel very confident that he has the level of personal magnetism that you want from a quarterback in this league and even at the young age and many of the players since have commented about that. Ryan

Kelly was great talking about like when you have a guy at 22, 23 years old that carries himself this way, we're ready to roll. This is the guy. And so we have those two things we can already put in, those two blocks we can put down now. There's some other things that we can, I think, start to apply from training camp. And I was just talking to somebody else about this,

and I'm not saying he can never do this but I have not seen a throw that like takes my breath away. Kind of like the Sam Darnold you know and a 20 yard pass layered over a guy who should be able to jump up and intercept it but doesn't because just because of the arm talent. And so like that I'm not ready to put that block there, that he's going to just be kind of a guy who throws the ball, but isn't going to throw people open in the ways we've seen other people.

But I'm starting to think that that's something we can get to fairly soon. And then you mentioned inaccuracies. When you have an 11 on 11 drill and Jonathan Grenard has beaten his guy clean, I'm not going to judge too much from that. But if you're in a red zone drill and there's no pass rush and you're standing however many yards it is

and there's a guy running open and you miss him, at this level, in practice, you don't see that too often from NFL quarterbacks. And so that's another thing to think about. Is he maybe just going to be one of those guys that sometimes misses? Not ready to put that block on there yet, but that's something I think we will have a better idea of by the end of camp. But I don't think I'm going to have enough, and you're probably bored with my

analogy by now, but I don't think we're going to have enough to have built that house by the end of camp. And if we did, then that would be pretty dramatic. Oh it was a house you were building I wasn't sure if that was. I don't want to build a wall because you know that connotes other things. Then I have to put a thing on the YouTube and whatever. We're building a foundation for our knowledge it's our knowledge house. Oh okay that's a good idea. So, uh, the, the accuracy thing though, really does intrigue me because I think that there are a lot of NFL quarterbacks who are not drew breeze and

they're not Tom Brady when it comes to throwing the ball who have a ton of success, but their misses are bad and their misses are sometimes very frustrating and you just go what happened there? And that's how I've felt about McCarthy so far at camp, where the one you mentioned was so noticeable, because Jalen Naylor was running wide open across the middle. And it's a kind of me to you, couldn't be more open. And you know, I think what happens in the red zone

a little bit is that you can't use a footwork that is sort of laid out for you perfectly. Just a play action footwork is drop back, you turn around, you set, it's kind of like one click and then the ball comes out. And that's why everyone loves these play actions for quarterbacks and things like that. Whereas in the red zone, I think it's much more of read, read, oh, I got to reset and fire. And there's just a lot of reps that have been missed by JJ McCarthy. And you wrote about what the Vikings did last year

and everything to try to get him ready for this. And I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that article is really, really in depth about how they tried to, it was like reading the whole house of the off season or last year and putting it together. Um, sorry, we won't go back to that, but, uh, I think there's only so much you can do, right? I mean, there's only, like you strap a virtual reality helmet on the guy or whatever. And like, that's great. But as Jalen Naylor, who runs really fast,

they call him speedy, is flying across that middle, it kind of comes down to the muscle memory part of it. And it's not quite there yet. And I thought it was really interesting to that point. JJ, I think for the first time, kind of acknowledged the fact that when you don't throw for a long time, you maybe lose some touch. Because he was talking about layering.

And that's not really a red zone thing, touch. Because he was talking about layering, and that's not really a red zone thing necessarily. But he was talking about layering his throws and how that was one of the big goals he had. And I asked him why, what prompted that? And he said, well, when you don't throw for a whole lot of time, you lose your touch. And so that could be a perfectly acceptable explanation for what we're talking about.

And so you mentioned the off season like their goal was to prevent this from being a total loss. Like I don't know that they thought that they were going to get him all the way through the same way they would have if he had been on the scout team and that and that and talking to Josh McCown for the story that you talked that you mentioned he said like the one thing you miss out on even if you weren't going to play is running the scout team. And the scout team is where you kind of do all the experiments that JJ has been talking about in the OTAs. You see, do I need to throw it this way or that way in order to make this play work?

At the NFL level, what type of throw do I need to make? And then make it over and over and create that muscle memory and create that same routine. So by the time you're actually playing, you're not also getting a feel for how to throw the ball, basically, at this level. And so that's what's been constricted. They were able to go over a lot of other stuff, all the mental parts of it, but the actual stuff on the field. And that's why I think we all have

to take a step to not draw too many conclusions and like not make excuses for him, but also remember that like there is like this was the first first first round quarterback in the modern draft era to miss his entire rookie season because of an injury like we've never had we don't really have a precedent for somebody trying to like take over in year two after being a highly drafted quarterback when they didn't even get a single practice during the course of the season. Right and I think about when I've been making a lot of golf analogies here just to describe McCarthy and this relearning how to touch on the football and things like that and throw accurately is when you go out

for the first time to golf in April or May after it's been a long Minnesota winter and you haven't swung a golf club, it's going to take you a couple of rounds. And the unfortunate part of this is with the NFL schedule for the players, the way it is, there's only so many mini camp practices. There's only so many training camp practices. There's only so many training camp practices. And it has to be an accelerated process. And I think that the Vikings and fans will have to prepare themselves for some misses from JJ McCarthy that just are frustrating

or don't make sense. And they'll have to be able to find ways to overcome them. I also do want to give him leeway because of how good the defense is. I don't think Chicago has this defense. I don't think that Atlanta has this defense or Cincinnati. Like the first couple of teams that they play for him to get in the rhythm. I think he's going to find himself with a lot more air to breathe sitting there in the

pocket that he has had with this. So that's another part that's made the evaluation from the sideline a little bit tricky with the accuracy because if you look at any accuracy percentage or completion percentage or quarterback rating under pressure, I think Josh Allen is the only guy who does really well consistently year to year and he's six foot nine, 473 pounds of muscle. So it's a little bit different. Now you mentioned his personality. I want, I want your, uh, your emotions here again on being around JJ McCarthy now, as you and I have for the entirety of this time behind the scenes and

what we've seen about him, what we've heard about him. Cause I think that we're just reaching the point where there's some dog days of camp. There's some tough moments that he's going to have to work his way through. And I think he's, I think he's built for that. I think that he takes a lot out of his failures and learns from it. But what have you felt being around JJ McCarthy? Yeah, like the big reason I keep using the personal magnetism thing is because he's the kind of person that you want to talk to. Like, he's making eye contact with you when he walks past you,

or just saying a little something, not in a derogatory way, but just like, hey, how you doing kind of thing. Just the exact personality, and I don't think you can fake this, because it's every single day, that you would want from that position. When he comes up to you, you know, there's, there's a running conversation that you've already had. And I'm just saying me, I'm saying everybody, like all these people are finding that like Harrison Smith,

who's a decade and a half older than, than JJ McCarthy, they went to Mexico, played golf for the NFLPA deal and their lockers are right next to each other. And like in theory, like you wouldn't find too many different personalities than Harrison Smith, who you never hear, you know, like above, you know, a straight line, uh, level and JJ McCarthy, who's all smiley and like vibrant and like high fiving and bro hugging everybody all the time. And like, he likes Harrison, likes him. Like I think he genuinely, I think the phrase he uses interesting fellow and like Harrison is drawn to and bro hugging everybody all the time. And Harrison likes him.

I think the phrase he uses is interesting fellow. And Harrison is drawn to people who are different from the ordinary. And I think that's what JJ is. And so that part of it is a home run. And I think people who grew up with him in Chicago or were fans of him in Michigan, that's all part of that. Obviously, he brought them a national championship,

and so the Michigan people would love him regardless. But I do think that he has this ability to personally connect with people at a very young age in a very respectful way, in a lot of cases with people much older than him, that's genuine and effective and makes you wanna support him if you're a player or a coach and know that if you do something well to help him, he's definitely gonna bring that back to you.

I think if you went back in time, what would it be, maybe almost 20 years, a young Kevin O'Connell would probably be a lot like JJ McCarthy is right now. I mean I just see so many similarities in their personality and I think that if you gave the physical traits of JJ McCarthy to Kevin O'Connell, the ability to throw the ball, he would have been probably a star NFL quarterback and I think he would have been a great leader as we've seen O'Connell lead this

entire organization. There's so many similarities and I think he would have been a great leader as we've seen O'Connell lead this entire organization. There's so many similarities. And I think it really starts with O'Connell needed a quarterback who was going to communicate extremely well. And that's exactly what JJ McCarthy's superpower, I think, is being able to relate to people, being able to communicate. And when you see those conversations that they're having on the sideline after a certain play, there is a lot of back and forth there dialogue between O'Connell and JJ

McCarthy. And this is the part I want to get into with O'Connell, uh, because I said something to Will Raggits the other day when he was on the show. I said, do you, do you think Kevin O'Connell is under pressure here? Not, not fired pressure. Of course we know that. Um, but with the decision that they made to move on from Sam Darnold to not go get Aaron Rogers to stick with JJ McCarthy. And now they're going through some ups and downs moments in training camp. Like, I think that there's a lot on Kevin O'Connell to make this happen and squeeze every bit out of JJ McCarthy,

which I think can be a little tricky because there's probably a thought to like I want to show everybody how good this young quarterback is. He's going to go out throw for 4,500 yards, but there's also probably part of him that says, I mean, he's not really ready to do that right out of the gate. So how much do you push? How much do you pull back on JJ McCarthy? Because at the moment, it has looked like he's kind of drinking out of a fire hose a little bit. Yeah.

I think, I mean, Kevin O'Connell's like a victim of his own success in the extent that he's created this unbelievable expectation, starting with the improvements he sort of cajoled out of Kurt Cousins and then the Josh Dobbs things. People will never forget the Josh Dobbs, you know, as long as they lived that the guy could come in off the street, did have no practice, and Kevin could basically talk him through

a game, a win on the road, a comeback win on the road. And so, and then that and then Sam Darnold. And then so basically by the time that he resurrected Sam, or Sam Darnold resurrected his career with the help of Kevin O'Connell, the national football intelligentsia and really fans in general like basically viewed him as a guy that if you, with the Midas touch, if you literally just, if he touches a quarterback he's going to get better. And so, and that's not to take anything away, like success has been the success. But now he's in this position where, as you said, a guy who played less than any of the other guys he was drafted with by far in terms of how many throws he made, just pure throws in college,

and then misses his entire rookie season, as we talked about, unprecedented level. And now everybody's like, well, is JJ going to be a first-team All all pro or just a second team all pro and Like it's so to me So I'm sure that like Kevin himself who you know He he knows that one of his strengths is to be a great quarterbacks coach Like the the greatest amount of pressure is probably coming from him like he doesn't want that to happen doesn't want

People to probably to think that less of his ability to do that. I think that it would take a big crash for JJ to actually dent Kevin's reputation there. But like even if the team is just a really good winning team this year and maybe wins a playoff game, and even if JJ is throwing an average of 15 passes a game over that period, if they have a really good year with this guy at the quarterback, regardless of how he performs, even in a Rex, I keep thinking a Rex Grossman, and I shouldn't, this is not fair for a lot of reasons,

but Rex Grossman was the first round pick of the Bears. They had this unbelievable defense with Lovey Smith and the Urlacher time. And they went to the Super Bowl and played the Colts. And it was a pure defensive thing. And so even if he can make a team be a winning team, a good team, from a winning team into the playoffs with a quarterback of this level of experience,

I think that that would burnish his reputation. But I think that he's built up, he's created this huge expectation, but he's built up enough equity that something short of an all pro season by JJ McCarthy is not going to damage it. I do think there's a lot of examples of young quarterbacks coming in in the NFL and performing really well right away, whether it's Brock Purdy or CJ Stroud or Jaden Daniels last year. And I know it's not exactly apples to apples because of how young and inexperienced McCarthy is, but also not all of those guys had

Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, Kevin O'Connell. And I think it is fair to expect O'Connell, who made this bet along with Quasi at Alfa-Mensa the front office the ownership everybody seemed aligned in making this bet on JJ McCarthy that I do think based on how much they spent all across the rest of the roster that the expectation should be very very high and if he was a rookie coming right out of Michigan right into the fire then I would say, all right, well, let's just see because that's going to be really hard to do.

But he does know the offense. And they did feel confident enough in what they saw from him behind the scenes to say, we're going to go for it with you. Which does put Kevin O'Connell, I don't know about that, if that reputation could be totally knocked off. It's moorings to use a hockey term. But I do think that when you've won Coach of the Year, that there is an expectation that is raised that now it's

time to win. And without a playoff win over these first couple years, a couple of appearances, a couple of meltdowns in the postseason, then you need more than just, is JJ good? You need to really win as a franchise. So go ahead. No, I'm saying, and that to me is the key. Like, whether, like, the expectation is that they can win with him,

but the expectation I don't think should be like any level of personal performance from JJ, because ultimately the most important thing that Kevin O'Connell can do this year is bring his expectations for McCarthy to the same level as McCarthy's capacity and like finding that little like that that area is the key probably for any player of any position in any sport but most importantly in this in this situation in this year, what is he asking him to do? So how many, you mentioned a lot of quarterbacks that had success right off the bat. Were they just unbelievably destined from birth to just have this crazy level of skill that they could step into the NFL?

Or did their coaches, to use an O'Connell term, marry their abilities with the game plan. So that to me is where the O'Connell judging will happen is what has he asked them to do. And even if they win a game, I was joking about 15 passes a game, but if that's what they need to do to win games, and because McCarthy is just not at a point where you can ask him to throw 25, 30 passes and hope that he's going to throw for three touchdowns, or if you have nine goal to go plays,

and you're going to throw on eight of them, I don't think that that may or may not be the case. But you have to judge what he's able to do, and then you bring your scheme and your game plan to that point. And if O'Connell can do that, because there's definitely, like I don't, like I think we've seen enough to think that McCarthy is not going to crash and burn. Like so, like there's a floor there that we can feel pretty confident that he's going to be able to perform to. But if what he's asking, if what O'Connell asks of McCarthy is too, the gap is too big, like that's where the mistakes get made.

Okay, so this falls right into my FanDuel question of the day. The over-under for the Vikings on FanDuel is 8.5 wins. To hit the over, how good does J.J. McCarthy have to be? Just give me a, where would he have to rank by all the quarterback rankers? Your friend Mike Sando does the quarterback tiers so where would he have to end up in next year's Sando quarterback tiers in order for the Vikings to hit FanDuel's over of 8.5? Just I mean I think he has five tiers so I think if he's a tier three quarterback that that's fine like but as you I didn't know where you're going with it, but I was going to say he has to rank relatively high

in turnovers in terms of fewest committed turnovers. And then we talked about this a lot around the draft, the weighty downs. He may not throw for 350 yards, but there'll be a time when it's third and eight and you can't run, you know, you and you can't you can't do a screen Probably you can't do something. There's gonna be a handful of plays. I don't know what how many but a handful of plays when He has to make the play and so The the idea and the hope is to minimize the number of those and that you're not asking him to make

You know if you have 60 plays a game You're not asking him to be the key person on 45 of them. But if you get a handful of times when he is able to make that play, it's not committing turnovers, um, has a high QBR on those third down weighty down kind of plays. I think that's, that's how you get over the, the eight and a half. I didn't expect you to use weighty downs on this podcast. That's that's some football right there, But that what you're describing is really Teddy Bridgewater's 2015 where he did not throw for a gazillion yards. They ran the ball a lot more than I think Kevin

O'Connell wants to run the ball. But when it came sort of push comes to shove, don't turn the ball over, complete some third down passes, keep drives, keep your team on the field. And that team, I think the Bridgewater's numbers were, you know, mediocre, but they were seventh in the percentage of drives that finished with points. Yeah. And that's kind of where this has to be. Like it's not a fantasy JJ McCarthy question as much as it

is a find ways to win question. So let me ask you another thought about your emotions and feelings. What have your feelings been about watching this defense come together in the first couple days? Because it was a concept, it was an idea, it was like if you've seen pictures of a national park versus going to the park and actually seeing

the mountains and elks or whatever. So what's the feeling been having now seen this defense in action? mountains and elks or whatever. So what's the feeling, Ben, having now seen this defense in action? I feel, because I'm spending so much time watching McCarthy, I'm feeling as overwhelmed, I think, as maybe he is. Typically, at training camp, you start off slow, and then you ramp up.

They came in ramped. They came in already at the speed limit, whatever that is. Vikings have three new offensive line starters and one of them isn't out there and one of them is just starting to get into things. And that's okay, we're gonna blitz. We're sending cornerback blitzes on the first play. We're doing stunts between all four defensive linemen

on every play. And they have, and this is by agreement between Brian Flores and Kevin O'Connell I don't think he's like surreptitiously disrupting it just to show off like this is this is what they plan and they sat down early before camp and went through all this like they have just been functioning on the highest level that I would have possibly anticipated for them at the end of camp what that will look like in week one, you know, we'll see but like we know they have

tons of proven players O'Connell, you know kind of confirmed what I was thinking in watching Jonathan Grenard that he came in here on day one and just another Level and not angry not mean but just like like he was ready to play football and the first time they they started acclimating themselves and in shirts and t-shirts and shorts. And so that, like, it gives me, like, I can't breathe sometimes when I'm watching, like, just, when you just watch 11 people just converging on the ball and there's another 11 people who are doing their best to be able to stand up, you know? And that's what it's felt like. And that's great for the Vikings overall. It gives plenty of time for the offense. I can't imagine that they will face, the offense will face a more

ferocious, like anything could happen at any time. And when it does happen, it's going to be in your face before you can breathe too often early on in the year, if at all. And so that's good for them as well. It'll come, though, as the schedule goes along, because you're going to have Pittsburgh, which has, I think, maybe the best, most complete defense in the league. And then you got Myles Garrett on the schedule.

And then you go and play Philadelphia. I think Detroit's D- line is still pretty nasty. There's a lot of teams, even Seattle, I think, has probably an underrated defense as well. New York, how about Dexter Lawrence, their favorite guy in the world to face? Dexter Lawrence, who just, at least they'll have Ryan Kelly.

That's not until December, though. Yeah. And presumably, they'll have Ryan Kelly, not someone that Lawrence can pick up and actually throw through the air. All right, here's another emotion. Because I guess the only way that I would describe the feeling of watching this defense is one time I went to a race car race

at a small track in California. So they're going 130 miles an hour, but you can be right on the track. And it's just like, woof, that's the power of it. You feel it. I like that's like watching this defense. Like you just feel the power. Build a house around.

Yeah, right. Um, you could watch the power from your house if you've built the foundation, but if you haven't, then you're what a metaphor. Um, but that's how it's felt to me is like, there is just a strength of this thing. metaphor. Um, but that's how it's felt to me is like, there is just a strength of this thing. And even when you think about Andrew van ginkle, like he is a big dude who's got a lot of strength and he was beating Brian O'Neill the other day and you're like, gosh,

this guy is so good at football. And you could just almost circle a guy. Uh, like, Oh, Jonathan Grenard has made probably just in school want to go back to school for a different profession. Uh, and you know, they're trying to pick up the blitzes and they're just being overpowered right now. Now that should improve when Darasau takes more reps and Donovan Jackson gets a little more into the swing of things. But you know, even Ryan Kelly said there's no defense that has messed me up more than Flores is, which is good for him because he plays here. I think that is good for

JJ McCarthy to face the too hard version. So the other version looks easier. There's also the McCarthy's going to struggle against it and you don't want him to lose his confidence. So it is a little, uh, it is a little bit of a balance. Now how about this? A last emotion for you. What about nervous? You know, there's some reporters who get nervous about things from time to time. I wouldn't accuse you of that. Maybe nervous of missing flights.

There's some reporters who get to stadiums five hours early, Chips Goggins, because I think he's nervous about missing anything. What has made you nervous while watching this training camp? Really, I've done a good job over the years of separating myself from the outcome of the team. I don't work for the team. My employment, fortunately, doesn't

rest on how well the team does. But there's been a few times where we talk about the pass rush, and it's been a few times where we talk about the pass rush and it's converging on JJ McCarthy and we just spent an entire year watching him recover from a serious knee injury. And one time he got bumped, I think, another time I think he just slipped, but he went down on the ground and you're just like, oh my God. And just a human emotion of like, he's's not he's not fragile. He's not you know

This is that was the only injury he's ever had and it appears to have been very much a fluke thing But like have I been nervous like there's a few times when I see that pass rush And I'm like I just remember that red shirt is there for a reason well I was thinking along the lines of And yes that every time every time anyone gets anywhere near his feet, nobody wants this. But I was thinking more along the lines of what the team maybe should be nervous about position-wise, player-wise. Frankly, they should be nervous about that because we haven't really talked about it,

but this is probably the least depth they've had at quarterback in a couple of years, at least. And I know everybody likes Max Brosmer, but he is a rookie. Brett Ripon has been a journeyman. And same how, I don't know that we've seen enough of him yet to feel confident that if something were to happen to JJ McCarthy that you could keep you know things rolling with him so like that they should be nervous about that. I think that there's two areas that I would point to as far as positions go that the depth would make me a little nervous

and wide receiver we're getting a look at it and I always want to say that I respect the hell out of Lucky Jackson. I am amazed by players like this. Yeah. But when you look at it, Ty Felton's not ready. Rondale Moore is coming back from an extremely serious injury. And I think he's looked like he has fit in at times and he's there having him be a complete wide receiver. They're not just throwing in bubble screens, but you know, that's something that's kind of coming along and I'm not sure where that's going to go. And there is a looming suspension here with Jordan Addison. And if that happens, then you're asking a lot of Jalen Naylor, you're asking a lot of Jordan Addison.

And I just am not sure about that position yet. Like if, if someone were to get hurt and you had to play 10 games with this, I think you're playing two tight ends on almost every play or you're trying to convince Keenan Allen to come sign with you or something like that because I don't think that feels really deep enough and I have felt better about the cornerback group in some ways because of the young players and how well they've played but that would be the other area too. Like I'm almost, talk about nervous.

I'm not saying the Jeff Okuda thing won't work. It might, but it certainly makes me nervous because you're asking someone who's never been good in this league to suddenly be good in this league. And anytime you do that, nervous. Yeah, and his has been part health and part performance. And so sometimes people put it all together on both sides of that at the right time.

And he's, I mean, you almost have to remember, like he's never really made it through a full season as a really good cornerback, because he's looked pretty darn good during practice. It also makes me nervous a little bit how hard he hits Jordan Addison sometimes in the drills. If you see a receiver's head go back on the line of scrimmage, you can, you can bet that it's Jeff Okuda rerouting him.

I think if Jeff Okuda did his press technique against a normal person, you'd probably fly like 18 yards in the air. He is extremely, extremely strong. Okay. So that fan duel question of the day was how good JJ McCarthy has to be. Where does he have to rank for the Vikings to hit the over? Please answer that in the comment section. My question for you, Kevin, after a handful of training camp practices, we'll check in and get on this. Would you go with the over? You think they'll win more than eight and a half games? Yeah,

I do. I do. I think because I think like we talked about, I think McCarthy's gonna at least have that floor where it's compatible with the talent that's around him. And so it's a 10, 11 win team, at least, around him. And then the quarterback, I think, could differentiate it either way. But I think his floor is going to be high enough that they're going to win more than that.

From what we've seen of McCarthy, either way, but I think his floor is going to be high enough that they're going to win more than that. From what we've seen of McCarthy, I think if I were a fan duel I might move that up, just maybe a win or so because I still have them at 11, I haven't moved off of that. I think that's very reasonable considering everything they have in this roster and how many times we've seen NFC teams in recent years win double-digit games with, I don't want to say suspect quarterback play, but quarterbacks who are clearly elevated by their circumstances. You could even say that of maybe Jordan love, uh, in his, the second half of his first year

with great coaching and a running game and all that sort of thing. Purdy and hurts are the examples that come to mind right away. But how about Matthew Stafford in the second half of his careers that Jared Goff in Detroit reinventing himself, but it's no mistake that supporting cast had a huge amount to do with that. So we will see how it plays out. You and I will definitely get back together again soon. But I'll tell you my emotions having you on Kevin, excited, joyful, pleased.

I'm gratified. That's an emotion. Alright, so maybe he'll be back on the show sometime, but thanks everybody for watching ESPN's Kevin Seifer and we'll catch you all very soon. Football.