Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Everyone needs a deep breath so let's grade the Vikings positions

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about some of the wild overreaction to the Vikings loss to the Bears and what comes along with the challenge of being realistic and evaluating the coaches. Then they grade every Vikings position for the present and future Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

how great is that new intro uh if you're listening on the audio version well you didn't see it but jonathan harrison has put together a tremendous tremendous intro to the show there with some old Vikings clips from John Randall, even though there is a very interesting football game going on. So hopefully you're joining us, keeping one eye on the game. And I am looking forward to an incredible weekend of college and National Football League football. And we have a lot to talk about, Manny, because the bye week, even though it's late in the season, is a great time to kind of pull back and

talk about how we feel about things. So we're going to grade the positions. Also, you've got another great list on the way and we will talk about, of course, more about the quarterback situation, but I have to begin with the reaction coming out of Chicago. Now,

Manny, you and I have known each other since the year of our Lord, 2016. That is when we first met. And we worked together until 2020. So that's four years working together. And we have continued to be friends since. We've gone to many Lynx games.

I'm wearing my Lynx hat today. We've hung out. We've done a lot of podcasting together now over the year. You wouldn't consider me the most rosy outlook person, the most purple tinted glasses type. Is that, is that correct? Would you agree with that? A hundred percent. You're, you've been very, you've been very, um, very fair when it comes to talking about this team and very, um, very objective. And, you know, I think it's part of the reason why we've been friends for so long

after working with each other on radio for so many years is because I've always appreciated your honesty about this team and not just saying things because you're worried about upsetting someone or, you know, you just want to kiss up to the team or anything like that. You've always been very straightforward with that. So I appreciate that. And, uh, the team gets credit for this as well, because I've never gotten a hard time about this.

Uh, there are other reporters, other markets that you hear about where the team is constantly reading every word, listening to every word, giving them a hard time. So shout out to the Vikings for always letting me cook. But sometimes I will admit that in my criticisms over the years, I have been fairly harsh and maybe even a little too much. So there were a few rants in there where I may have pushed the edge at times in criticizing during the Zimmer and Spielman era. So here's where I'm running into problems. I feel like I'm in a very different position at this moment because I am used to being the one who is criticizing the team's moves or decisions or quarterback or whatever it might be and getting

pushback from fans who are saying, don't you criticize those draft picks were great or whoever's doing a great job or the quarterback is elite or whatever it might be, right? That's where I've kind of been over the years or Kyle Slaughter's the next great quarterback, whatever it might be, whatever topic has come up, that's usually been my position is defending my criticism. But now today I feel like I'm in the exact opposite spot because my email inbox and direct messages are on fire with criticism of the Vikings leadership, Kweisi Daffo-Mensa and Kevin O'Connell. And I got to say, Manny, I don't get it. I get it from the Chicago game, the criticism about whether it was a game management, which, you know, I guess we could debate, or the game plan, which I didn't love,

put a lot on Josh Dobbs when I don't think he was really in a position to do it. Maybe run the football a little bit more in a game where your quarterback's throwing four interceptions. You know, it's a terrible, terrible game, and nobody deserves to be unscathed after that game. But if you're making it about anything more than one horrendous game that O'Connell can't manage games, that he doesn't know how to game plan, that he's too inexperienced, that he shouldn't be calling plays,

that he this, that, the other thing. I got an email today saying they should fire him and make flores the head coach and and i just like my skull is about to explode into a thousand pieces let me just offer a fact the vikings have the eighth most points since kevin o'connell took over he's also won two games to every one that he's lost and not had an elite quarterback. And by the way, you are playing with a backup quarterback over the last four weeks. I don't know if people noticed that

because Josh Dobbs was good. And I just feel like Kevin O'Connell is going to run into a lot more bumps along the way. But two weeks ago, we would have said he was the coach of the year. So some people got to decide, is he the coach of the year or should he be thrown out of the bus? I mean, that is where I've come away saying this is just way too much.

So how have you felt about that whole thing? No, I'm with you it's it's so weird about how you know the difference a season can make when you're not winning every single one score game that you play in like what happened last year when they went 11 and 0 in such games and now this year they're what they've i think they've played 11 one score games this year and they're they're six and five in those games if i'm not mistaken or five and five maybe i don't i don't know what the record is exactly but basically it's not the same thing as it was last year and you know you look at the way things have played out this year

a play here a play there you know you take away a fumble maybe in that chargers game uh turnover in the tampa bay game maybe and we could be looking at an 8-14. If you make a play here or there in the Denver game, maybe you win that game. If you make a play here or there in Monday night's game against the Bears, maybe you win that game, and you could be talking about a completely different thing. I think overall you have to look at the body of work

instead of just these last two weeks because when they won five in a row and a couple of games in a row with Josh Dobbs as a quarterback nobody was complaining about Kevin O'Connell there were some criticisms but nobody was complaining and wanting him fired and things like that but now you lose these last two games and now everybody is seems like everybody is kind of flipping their lid and it's I think you just have to look at the overall body of work. I think when you consider all the circumstances that Kevin O'Connell walked into when he took the job, you know, early in 2022, I think you really have to give your tip your hat to him overall. And I don't I don't sense that this is something that is going to go the wrong way going forward. You know, I really feel like he's a good coach.

I think overall he's got a lot of really positives, and I think they outweigh any negative criticisms that you have, you know, that anyone may have of him. He's not perfect, obviously, but I think he's fine. I think Quasey's done a pretty solid job as a GM. I think this team is really set up long-term to have success if they make the right moves going forward. And I think, you know, Kevin O'Connell's done a really good job as a head coach. So it's football, right?

I mean, this is kind of what we see from fans, right? When a team loses, they want everybody fired and everybody cut and everybody traded. When everybody's winning, it's like, oh, my God, we're going to go to the Super Bowl and nobody's gonna stop us so it is what it is i guess it's life of life of being around the nfl and following it and trust me nobody appreciates that passion more than me and part of my job i guess is to figure out where that line is and what is crossing it. Because when you come out of a game like that, again,

if you've got complaints about the coaching in that game, I'm with you. I mean, if we're doing a week-to-week coaching job, it's an A against the Falcons, it's an A against the Saints, and then it's probably a C against the Broncos, and it's an F against the Bears. It was just not the right game plan for that night. And then, you know, I don't know there even against, yeah, even against the Broncos, like running a pitch to Josh Dobbs, just totally absurd. There was no reason to ever do that.

And I wondered if that hit was still with him a little bit when he was a tad slow on some of those plays, but then asking him to have precise footwork and pristine drop backs and accuracy. Like that's just not who you have playing quarterback, man like that. So yeah. Right. And as the comment section lit up after the post game and so forth, a lot of people had really smart things to say. So that's what I'm saying is that we have a line here where we can look at an individual game and go, that was not, that was not your night. There's some decisions I would defend like punting it at the end, or even playing super conservative your quarterback through four interceptions and got sacked multiple times

and also even got penalized for throwing the ball out of bounds. Like, I'm not sure that I really want him throwing the football at the end. I'd rather probably just punt that away and have my punter not shank it. But so those little things are really fun to debate. But I think that we do have to pull back for a second as we go down the stretch here, Manny, and say, look, this is going to be some rocky waters. This might go bad, but I'm not changing my mind. Not unless he goes nuts. Not unless O'Connell starts doing crazy stuff that he's never done before. And he starts criticizing people in the media, like he hasn't done before and doing Zimmer like things. Unless

that happens, I'm going to think that the direction overall was steered in the right way this year. And that along the way, O'Connell had to handle a lot and did it pretty well, though not perfect. That's what my belief is going to be. And I'm not going to change it if they go to Vegas and they play Nick Mullins and he throws three interceptions and they lose because it's Nick Mullins. And this is not going to be the future of the quarterback situation. I don't think that we should have our evaluators stun guns set on 10 or whatever. You know what I mean?

We're not evaluating everything about the coach when he's got to deal with either a number two, three or four quarterback the rest of the way. But I will listen to arguments that that's not the right approach. Manny, that's what I want you to do. I want you to make a counterargument there. Tell me I'm wrong for taking this approach. It's hard for me, too, because I 100% agree with you. Let's see. No, Collar, they've lost two games in a row and come on what what happened to this

great offense and this great offensive mind that kevin o'connell was supposed to have and they scored 10 bleeping points against the bears come on how can anybody really believe in this guy see i can't even take myself seriously trying to say that either because it was really bad though it was really bad yeah it was it was pretty. But it's those things are going to happen, though, right? Like we've seen we've seen some of the greatest coaches of all time have just bad moments. And I'm not putting Kevin O'Connell in that category yet. But my point is, some of the best coaches that we've ever seen have had moments where it was like, you're like, what the bleep happened? Like, what was that?

How many times have we seen Andy Reid, who we both agree is like one of the two or three, I think one of the two or three greatest coaches in NFL history. Like, I think Andy Reid's all time great. He's had moments even going back to his days in Philadelphia where you were like, Andy, what are you doing, man? That doesn't change the overall body of work of what he's done in Philadelphia and obviously with Kansas City as well. And so I just think it's a typical thing that I think some fans don't want to hear, but just calm down. Big picture, this team is going to be fine they've set themselves up very nicely for the future let's just let things play out before we start wanting to jump ship and make drastic changes already are there things in your

life Manny that are easier said than done because I think of it this way it's sort of like if I say you know what this this holiday season, I'm not eating all those cakes and all those little Christmas trees that they got at Target that you buy in the box. I'm not eating them. I'm going to be healthy. And then I walk by those little Christmas trees. Let me just grab one box.

I feel like it's the same way with we go into a competitive rebuild season and we go, all right, I'm not going to freak out if they're 500 through 12 games. That's all right. They redid a lot of the roster. This is a transition year. It's what they're supposed to do. And sometimes it's probably going to look bad, but I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited about this. That's that's July. But then you see that game against the bears and you go, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing I've ever seen. Someone's head has to roll.

Right. I mean, and that's actually one of the reasons tanking is so hard because at the beginning of the year, you can be like, well, you know, they're probably going to win three games and it's fine. And by like seven games, everyone wants to kill each other and all the fans want everybody fired. And so usually the people who tank end up getting fired and don't even get to see the fruits of their labor, which is probably what's going to

happen in Chicago. Uh, as that team has, I think some decent bones to work with, but a lot of people are probably just going to lose their jobs there. So I think the same thing is kind of happening a little bit here where it's like everybody wanted to speak it into existence and will it into existence this magic carpet ride with josh dobbs and you said the day they traded for him like i don't know man and you're a josh dobbs guy but he's like i don't know man and that's kind of what we got so give me your take we're taking uh everybody's opinion since Kevin O'Connell didn't lock Dobbs in. Do you think he should remain the start?

I think going into this, going into this bye week, having a, you know, another potential winnable game coming up out of the bye week. I know we've said that the Broncos game was winnable and we said the bears game was winnable and they obviously dropped both of those. But I think coming out of a buy, potentially getting Justin Jefferson back after the buy as well, another week for Dobbs to maybe get a bigger grasp of the offense. I want to give him another week to see what happens. Now, if he goes into Vegas in two weeks and lays an egg, the way he did on Monday night against the Bears, then, you know, and you end up losing

that game, now you're 6-7, and now if you want to make the playoffs, you might have to really consider making a change there at that point, because at that point, after a few weeks and a bye week and getting the best player in the league back

to throw to, if that doesn't improve from what we've seen the last two weeks, then I think obviously it's a huge problem and you're going to need to go in a different direction there. And, you know, would Nick Mullins at that point be much better? Who knows? Maybe a little bit because he has maybe a stronger grasp of the offense because he's been around longer.

But at that point, I think you're just kind of realizing like, yeah, this is probably just not really going to go anywhere. And let's just make a change. And going forward, we know that any healthy quarterback that's available to play is not going to be the long term starter. I think we all kind of knew that anyway, even with as well as Dobbs was playing. So I would give Dobbs one more start to see if he can turn around. He's got that bye week. He's going to get Justin Jefferson back, I think. Sounds like it. And so, you know, I think he'd go from there.

And then if he lays another egg with those circumstances kind of working in his favor, then I think it's time to pull the plug. So that's the funny thing about how just football works, especially since we don't have another game to talk about right away is in Denver, they out gained the Broncos by a hundred yards and at 395 yards of total offense probably is in the like 95th percentile of offensive performances in football remember that stat about how the Steelers went 40 games or 50 games or something without getting 400 yards and that's what they put up against Denver but they lost because Alexander Madison fumbled and somebody hit Dobbs's arm which turned into an interception

and then they got a great play from Cortland Sutton at the end of the game even though the Vikings decidedly outplayed Denver that whole way which is why Denver is going to implode at some point they're getting all the press you know over the last couple weeks which is just what like the that's what we do back to what we were talking about it goes right exactly everybody everybody was clowning Sean Payton when the Dolphins hung 70 on them. And then the Broncos won a few games in a row. And now all of a sudden it's like, oh, are the Broncos a dangerous team?

Are they going to make the playoffs? Like, it's just, it's this league, man. It's crazy. It's very much moth to flame with everything. It's just like the Josh Dobbs stuff. Like, oh, Dobbs won two games. I think he, is he the franchise quarterback? Like, you know, let's just go the pastronaut.

Here we go. And we're all guilty of that. I'm not just making fun of, you know, whoever's anointing the Denver Broncos, but out of four games, Josh Dobbs has played well enough to win in three of them. And they had some wonky stuff go wrong in Denver. And then now we're talking about benching him, which seems to be too much for me. Like,

I think you should let him go into Vegas, see what it's like to play with Justin Jefferson and go forward because he's the one who gives you a better chance, in my opinion, to potentially make the playoffs. But you're also choosing between, if we were using Madden ratings, a guy who's a 71, a guy who's a 68 and a guy who's a 64.

Like it's just, this is what you have for quarterback the rest of the way. And I really do look forward many to when the Vikings missed the playoffs to go eight, nine of people pulling out just the Jefferson's win loss record this year. Like, well, you know, they were five and two without them and they were losing record with them. And, you know, I guess he's not that important. That will probably happen, but more than, more than anything, I think what it is to, to connect it back to where I started is just, there were, there was hope there for a minute that this could be interesting. And that intrigue had a lot of

excitement that went along with it like oh a new quarterback it's been a long time look he makes plays like this is kind of exciting and let's see where it all takes us and then you just get punched in the mouth you're like oh that's it and look let's be honest here Vikings fans Minnesota sports fans they've been punched in the mouth many times. And I think when it happens after all the scar tissue that's built up, that they're very quick to just be like, Oh, we lost. It's over. Like that was fun for a minute and it's over. And I'm not saying that you can fight the rest of the way or not because you don't play for the team. But I just think that that's the disposition when something goes wrong like this, that that it's like out well this was never going to be that fun anyway and it was

a fun ride and we'll catch y'all later i mean even like just a few weeks ago when dobbs is doing well we're going live and we're getting three times the audience so we're getting right now because people were so excited about it and i i really feel that. I really feel that with the audience that it's just hard to be like, oh, actually, this could be fine. And long-term, it's great or whatever else because it was so deflating what happened against Chicago. Yeah, I think it's just the trauma of – I mean, we talked about this a few weeks ago when we were just talking about, like,

the quarterback position and the future of that position about drafting a guy. I think it's just sort of the trauma of decades of heartbreak. I mean, I'm I'm 39 years old and I've experienced as a as a Vikings fan growing up. I've experienced my share of of heartbreak with, you know, from 98 to 2009 to I would even say, you know, the the way 2017 ended in Philadelphia was heartbreaking because it was such a fun year. And then they go into Philly and just get obliterated. And it was just it was hard. The 41 donut, you know, those NFC championship game runs were heartbreaking.

And I think, you know, even when you talk about the quarterback position and you're talking about drafting a guy and going forward and everybody's like, well, what if he's going to be like ponder? And it's like, well, what if he's not? What if he's Joe Burrow? What if he's, you know, what if he's Tua? Look how well Tua is playing when, when he's healthy. Like, you know, it's so, I think it's, it's hard to ask fans who have just been beaten down for so long by this team with heartbreak to just suddenly just be rational all the time. So it's like I always try to just when I see it, it does kind of frustrate me when everybody's like just ready to hit that panic button ever you know on a week to week basis

um but at the same time i also kind of understand it because as a as a fan growing up i dealt with a lot of the same heartbreak watching this team and it's so it's it does have kind of an impact but i just hope that everybody can kind of see big picture where this team is at and and the potential that they, again, make the right moves. They've made some really good moves in the last couple of years, I think under quasi and KOC. And I think if they continue to do that,

I think this team has a chance to be, to be really good for, for a little while here. And that is the difficult thing is to try to say in this moment, right now, after watching one of the worst football games i've ever seen in my life uh to say hey actually it's going pretty well you guys want to talk about ivan pace jr like of course they don't of course no one does but i do feel like there are when we

look around the league comparable teams that over a couple of year period came together with their rosters and built teams that were legitimately Superbowl contenders over a period of time. And maybe somebody like the Dallas Cowboys would be a good example of this, where at the end of the Jason Garrett era, they're in a pretty rough spot, very Zimmer-like where you're like, there's some guys were good. guys who aren't like what are you gonna do here they hit on some draft picks they already had the quarterback in place it's a little different there we don't know the quarterback situation but they hit on some draft picks CeeDee Lamb is an absolute monster and then Micah Parsons is I don't know maybe the best player in the whole league not named Patrick Mahomes and all of a

sudden like this momentum grows for them and and you see the whole roster starting to gel together and then they're a Super Bowl contender but it didn't happen overnight like they ended up have they had a competitive rebuild where they had to kind of go through this whereas mediocre seasons draft well pick up a few guys build rebuild the offensive line after it had been hurt and stuff like that. And so you see the bones here and you also see the way that O'Connell has navigated some of the difficult things throughout this season and the way that he has managed the locker room, the way he corrected the mistake of Ed Donatel last year and bringing in Brian Flores, these are all good decisions that I think

bode well for the future. It doesn't mean necessarily it does, but if we're looking at even a Zimmer comp like 2014, 2015, you could see it. You could see where this could come together and eventually be something. But after so many years of, hey, maybe we'll eventually be something. But after so many years of, Hey, maybe we'll eventually be something. That's a pretty hard sell. That's what this year was always going to be. And without Kirk cousins, it's all it probably can be. And what else are we supposed to tell people after that? Other than they should join me in Vegas. That's what, that's what I'm going to tell people because I will be in Las Vegas. And, uh, just for a disclosure, this is an ad read. I'm not just telling you that, but also Circa has invited me and you to come out there. But that's what we're

doing in, what is this, about two weeks now, a week and a half now, headed out to Las Vegas. So your last chance to join me out there, to book your trip, to get it all set up at Circa Las Vegas. So your last chance to join me out there to book your trip, get it all set up at Circa Las Vegas, one of the coolest places on earth. If you have ever been to stadium swim, or if you haven't, you're going to want to Google it and check out what that looks like. The weather here is turning miserable. It is, I promise you better out there, but even if it's a little on the cooler side, they have heated pools. It's one of the most fun places on earth. So on Friday night before the game, uh, circa is going to hold the party for Minnesota fans. I will be there. It's got drink specials, couple tickets to the game. If you dare and, uh, you can come meet me there. We'll talk football. So you go to circa Las Vegas website and go to where it says sports book. There's a place where it says huddle up at overhang RSVP for the party there.

And we will make a whole weekend of it at Circa Murph's going to be out there on Saturday. We're going to do a little podcast thing. So circle lasvegas.com and book your spot there today. All right, Manny, we, we got it. We got to shake things up here because otherwise, you know, what's going to happen. Gary Anderson's name's going Because otherwise, you know what's going to happen? Gary Anderson's name is going to happen. That's what's going to happen.

It's like we keep going down this road, and then we're going to be like, and Favre had Barry in right there. And then, like, we don't have to do that. It doesn't have to happen. What we should do is look at the present team. And here's how I want to do it. So I want to grade the positions. But I want to grade them through the lens of short and long term so factor those things in when you're grading not just hey

i can look at the pff grades and say this guy's a b or a 70 or whatever but the short and long term so we're going to go position by position here. Let's start with the quarterback position. How do we think the quarterback position as a whole has played and is set up for the future on some sort of grading scale that you have to figure out because you're a smart guy? So go ahead. So the quarterback position, this was interesting because, you know, you're thinking, you're talking about, you know, I mean, I guess three guys, but really two guys. You're talking about Kirk Cousins and Josh Dobbs, you know, Jared, Jared, I can't talk right now. Jaron Hall being kind of the third guy played a couple of possessions in Atlanta.

You know, we probably probably won't include that because it's kind of an incomplete. But I would say as it currently stands right now, I would put it at about a solid B. I think I have it as a B because, you know, we really, before he got hurt, we saw Kirk Cousins really playing really, really well. I mean, the San Francisco game, he was outstanding. He was fantastic in Green Bay before he got hurt. And overall, you know, his numbers, like, it always seems to be with Kirk Cousins, the numbers are very good.

You know, and he didn't really have a lot of like bad games. He was bad in Carolina. I think he struggled and really had a hard time in that game and kind of so-so in the game at Chicago. But overall, Kirk had played really well. And I think, you know, when he got hurt and Dobbs stepped in the next week, you know, he played really well. Now, I think obviously the thing keeping me from having this into the range of an A is Monday night. That was pretty bad on Monday night. And I think you also when you're factoring these these these 12 games of the season now you have you can't ignore that, especially since it's the most recent game. So I think overall, though, it's at a B+. Long term, I think it's at an A just because of the position

that they put themselves in long term for this position. If they do what I've been saying that they should do, what you've been saying they should do is, you know, find a way to use that first round pick on a quarterback. Obviously, if they're, if they make the playoffs and go to like the divisional round, that pick is going to be lower in the first round. It'll be harder to like move up and get a guy that you want. But I think the way they've, you know,

handled the situation with kirk they put themselves in a position where they can go and find that guy koc can identify the guy that he wants um and and really grab that guy and grow them and develop them implement them into the offense so long term i would say a solid a because of the position that they put themselves in. There's a lot of opportunities. But I think right now it's probably like a B or a B+, just as the current position has been for this season. This show is being brought to you by BetterHelp. Folks, the holidays are an exciting time for buying gifts and spending time with family. But you have to remember that sometimes the best gift is the one you can give yourself. If you're finding the holiday season

tough on you, maybe the best gift is paying a little more attention to yourself, whether that's therapy or just finding time away from the holiday stress. If you are interested in getting someone on your side this December, you may want to check out BetterHelp. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with better help. Visit better help.com slash insider today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L P.com slash insider. Yeah. I think just based on the quarterback play, if I just showed you the

quarterback play and I said, what's this team's's record you'd probably be like out of what 12 games maybe eight and four seven and five that's probably where you think and then they've fumbled the ball a bleep ton of times and they've lost a lot of close games as you mentioned earlier so you know they're probably not as good as their quarterback play would reflect uh this year overall. And as you mentioned, Monday night, there's because I think there's three games that are just awful quarterback performances. And you're maybe being too polite to Kirk in Chicago. They had fewer yards in Chicago than they had the other night on Monday night. So that's how bad that one was.

They got away with it because Tyson Bajan threw an interception at the end. But that was a really bad game. So that's three bad games. Maybe you lose other close ones, but normally if your quarterback plays that well, well, the, the Eagle stats were a little fake, you know, right at the end. So that's what you would have expected. That's a solid B plus, I think for the longterm, it was very hard because a part of me wanted to say an a because they did not sign an older quarterback to a long-term extension and then he tore his achilles and that seems good like that you weren't locked in for three more years at massive money 40 plus million dollars a year uh guaranteed for a guy who just tore his Achilles. At the same time, I'm starting to think they're going to go back to that guy who tore his Achilles after seeing this, that, you know, O'Connell's going to stand on the table and say, I need my,

my real quarterback back because Josh Dobbs can't throw the ball as accurately. And I think we know where that road leads. So I'm very hesitant to go a also since they won too many games. And this is the point that everyone, you know, is emailing about unhappily, but since they won too many games, now it's harder to get Jalen Daniels. It's, it's impossible to get Caleb Williams or Drake may, I can't give you an a, if you can't draft one of the top quarterbacks without giving up your entire franchise. So I think I'm more like giving them a B, but I could be converted to an A if they end up drafting one of those quarterbacks and taking that route. I could be converted also to a D minus if they go a different route that I

am not presently advocating. So let's look at the backfield. If you dare, maybe I should put, do I still have my glasses here? Here's what I do. I need these to look at the backfield on my head. The sunglasses. I can't look directly at the backfield. What did you grade the running backs? I got them at a D plus. And I feel like that was pretty generous.

I, you know, I don't think it's entirely on, on them. The sort of the lack of production in the running game. I mean, some of it, and we kind of saw a little bit of this on Monday night where I thought, you know, they were able to run the ball fairly well, but they just didn't seem to want to, you know, KLC didn't seem to want to stick with it. You know, anytime there was like a one yard gain from Alexander Madison or Ty Chandler, then it felt like KLC was like, okay, no, we can't run the ball. You know what I mean? But then like they get the next possession and Madison would break off like an eight or nine yard run. And it's like, okay, yeah, well, the running game seems to be working a little bit. Let's stick with it and see where it goes and and uh but it just didn't seem enough like enough of a commitment to it uh because it did seem like at times it could be

pretty effective um against that bears defense so it's not all entirely on them but it's just overall it just hasn't been the running game just hasn't been good. I mean, Madison has struggled a lot. When Ty Chandler's been in there, it seems like he's broken off some nice runs. But, you know, we saw the pass protection, which I think we have to account for this as well. The pass protection from him has not been good. It really hasn't been great for Madison either. But he's kind of been better by default almost.

And that's had an impact on the passing game too, because it's impacted turnovers and being able to maintain points. So I got the running backs as, as a D plus right now. And I don't, I, you know, I, I dare not say, you know, spend money in free agency on a running back or, you know, draft one high or anything like that. But I do think there's going to have to be, you know, a change. And I don't know if it's just like a philosophical change approach to the running game or whatever the case may be that could bump that grade up long term. But right now it's not it's not great. Yeah, I mean, I think D plus for both or even just straight D is where I would go. They are 26th in expected points added in the run game, and that includes Josh Dobbs

running for touchdowns. So even take Josh Dobbs out of that equation. They're even worse from the backfield perspective. Their bet on Alexander Madison has not paid off, even though the last two weeks he's run effectively. And it's not that he never has run well throughout the season. He had a good game against the chargers, but few and far between way too many negative runs.

And I agree with you that there were times where I thought just stick with the run. Chicago can't score. Like just, just grind this thing out a little bit, like get a couple of, you know, six yard gains, get a first down on the ground, just keep pounding out. That is not Kevin O'Connell's way. And I always thought if you leaned into Kirk cousins and through more that it might help you score more points, but Kirk cousins isn't there. So there's a part of me that thinks,

is it really the running backs or is it the scheme? Now nobody has had success. Cam delvin cook ty chandler alexander madison you know moeldy more there's lots of michael bennett nobody's had any success here in the backfield so leroy horde could probably get three yards per carry at least and fall forward but aside from that nobody's had any success so i do wonder is it the players or is it the scheme and for the for the future i mean we could be excited about a couple ty chandler plays but the guy's got like 100 yards rushing this year i mean there's like there's no argument that like oh they have rb1

which means they're gonna have to find one in the future and i am in complete agreement that uh if they draft one any higher than like the fourth round they're making a mistake but you're gonna have to find somebody who can do this job or somebody who can coach it i i don't really know it's been it's been a disaster all right i could take off the shades now that i tried to avoid looking directly at the running backs and talk about the wide receivers slash tight ends. A very interesting group to evaluate, wouldn't you say, Emmanuel? Yes, I would. I think in terms of production for this season, I think I'll give it a B+. The only reason why it's not higher is because we've been missing Justin Jefferson for well over a month.

And that has really kind of hurt the grade, obviously. And, you know, Jordan Addison, I think, has played well overall. I think he's off to a nice overall start to his NFL career for this season. He's been a little AWOL the last couple of weeks. It's been hard to kind of find him with a searchlight. And, you know, he had sort of the deflected pass that led to a pick on Monday night, although I think ball placement could have been better from Josh Dobbs on that play and maybe it would have gone a little bit differently.

But, you know, Addison got his hands on it. So, you know, it's the old John Madden line. If you get your hands on it, you got to catch it, that type of thing. So Addison's been a little bit, he's been in a little bit of a funk the last couple of weeks, it seems like. But I think overall, he's been in a little bit of a funk the last couple of weeks, it seems like. But I think overall, he's been really good as a rookie and really productive. And he stepped into a situation when Jefferson went down. He stepped into that 49ers game.

It was just awesome, just fantastic. So, and TJ Hawkinson, I think, you know, for all the flack he was getting early in the season, he's really turned himself into a really really nice weapon um you know he's he's really kind of turned his season around and i know he's been battling you know some something with his core i don't know if it's a rib or if it's an oblique or whatever he's fighting through that man and he's still being really productive too i mean he's basically josh stops his favorite target right now. So, uh, he, he's been great. And, you know, and KJ Osborne has been, you know, kind of hit and miss, but overall just, I think kind of what you expect out of, you know, wide receiver three, so to speak. Um, so I, I'd give the unit right now a solid B plus. Um,

it would be higher, obviously if Jefferson were healthy long-term. This was tricky for me because you still have that contract situation looming with one Justin Jefferson. And I, I guess I kind of give it an incomplete because we don't know, we assume that they're going to resign Justin Jefferson, but they haven't done it yet. And so I think, you know, it kind of causes for people to kind of raise their eyebrows. Like, are you going to do this?

You're going to get this done? Like what's going to happen here? You know? So I'll grade long-term as kind of an incomplete because if they don't resign Justin Jefferson for whatever reason, it's an F. It's a total failure. Like he's the best in the game. You have to resign him.

Sign him to a blank check for God's sakes. I mean, damn near. So I, I'll give it a kind of an incomplete right now, just because it's a little bit of an uncertain future with him. I mean, he is for that unit to be as great as it needs to be for this team to compete. He's got to be there. He's got to be a part of it, especially if we go the route of a young quarterback. So I'll give the current state a B plus and long-term an incomplete, an INC.

I like that, and I think that's fair. I have more trust in the idea that they will get him done with an extension uh in part because it seems like the wilfs always like to flirt with not doing stuff and then do it like oh man we were thinking hard about not bringing back kyle rudolph then like all right we bring back kyle the same thing happened with hockinson where it was like oh how's your back you little weirdo and then it was like, oh, how's your back, you little weirdo? And then it was like, oh, OK, here's all the money. You know, you don't have an ear problem.

You know what I mean? They've done this so many times. Even Anthony Barr literally signed with another team and then they brought him back. Then they brought him back again. So I think the same thing is happening with Jefferson, where it would have been almost unprecedented for him to sign the contract when he did anyway. And when you sign the contract, here's the thing. You have to put all the guaranteed money on the table. If you're the ownership, that's just how it works with NFL ownership. They need you to be absurdly rich. And if you got other plans for that money at the time, you might be like, let's just do it next off season. I'm not, I don't want to put that money

out on the table right now. I don't know that that's what happened. I'm just saying like that sometimes is the reason to run it all the way to the end is the ownership doesn't necessarily want to write the guaranteed money check because this one's going to be big. So I have confidence in the way that the NFL has rigged the system against the players that Jefferson will sign an extension. And if he wants out at some point, he's going to have to force a trade like George Costanza, uh, pulling the trophy around in the, in the parking lot. If you're a, if you're a Seinfeld fan. So I will look at the long-term first and say, I think it's an a plus assuming Jefferson signs an extension. I'm confident that he will Hawkinson after a tough couple of weeks where

it seemed like that things that went wrong with him happened at the worst possible times in the end zone against the chargers. If it hits his hands, it falls this way. We never remember it, but it went that way. And it, but you know, there's been a lot of that this season where it's like, Oop, even in the Chicago game, they're in a bit of a drive and Dobbs throws kind of a bullet to KJ Osborne. Jalen Johnson gets his arm in there. 95% of the time, it just hits the ground, pops up, gets intercepted. It's been a lot of that. But the way that Addison has played, the way that Hawkinson has played, there's an argument. Hawkinson's a top three tight end this year. He is what I think leading all tight ends and receptions. He has been majorly clutch since

down. He was really important to them, uh, you know, to beat San Francisco and so forth. He's been, he's been great, uh, battling through this injury was huge in Atlanta when they were able to win that game. And then you have the best receiver in the world. Um, as far as this year, someone like Brandon Powell stepping up, uh, it's been like a pleasant surprise. Didn't expect that where I would say my grade goes down though. It's like, they've done well, and I'm not going to give them demerits for Jefferson getting hurt where my grade for the receivers would really go down is KJ Osborne.

Because at the beginning of the season, I thought based on training camp, like this guy's about to take that next step. And when Jefferson goes down, okay, this is your big opportunity. And I know, I know he got hurt. It was a horrific injury in Atlanta, but overall, even before that, just that it pretty much a non-factor. And that was not really the expectation for this year. And whoever, if you tweeted out a three deep, that was Jordan Addison and Jefferson and KJ, delete it.

Delete it. Please do. I'll pretend I didn't see you do it. Just delete it because that's not the case. He is not Jake Reed. He's not anywhere close to Jake Reed. He's got to have a really good five games if he wants to get paid. So he's got like 30 catches really good five games if he wants to get paid.

So he's got like 30 catches and has been just not an important element of this offense. So I'd probably go like a B solid B or B minus maybe because they do have a guy who's been a non-factor. The offensive line is an interesting one. What do you think about the offensive line? I will give it a kind of waiver between a B plus and an A minus because I think they've overall, as you know, I think they've been really, really good. You know, Ed Ingram obviously had his struggles early in the year where it was just really, really bad.

It was really bad in Carolina, you know, and a couple of other games too. But, you know, he's kind of trending upward a little bit. Not a lot, but, you know, we're seeing some improvement from him. You know, they got worked on Monday night. Montez Sweat and those guys really, really took them to the woodshed on Monday night. It was a great game plan by Matt Eberflus. So they struggled a bit on Monday night, but I think overall as a unit, they've been really good.

So I'll give them a solid A- just because, hell man, we've been lamenting about this unit for, it feels like, our entire lives. It hasn't been that long, but it's always every year since like probably 2015 or 16 the offensive line has always just been a discussion with this team it's just like oh we need a guard and go sign another guard and you know all of this stuff and no great bradbury why'd they draft the center in the first round and you know which is still kind of a valid question but overall this year, I think they've been, they've been really rock solid and really good,

good enough. I think too, you know, I think a lot of teams would take the production that they've gotten from this unit this year. Cause there are some bad offensive lines still in the league right now, as we speak in the Vikings unit is not really one of them. So I will give them a solid, straddling somewhere between the B plus and A minus range. So this goes under the PFF grades

have been friendly to the Vikings in the run game. And I think so has other metrics like rushing yards over expected. So I'm going to lean toward they've done a decent job. I think they're worse since they've had Dalton reisner in the run game because that was never his strength and it shows up from time to time but as of the present they are ranked by pro football focus and pass blocking number one number one insane they thought it could never be done. And they were not number one against Chicago, for sure.

Chicago got a lot more pressure than usual, but they said it couldn't be done and it was done. And how just much of a kick in the face is it for Vikings fans who talked about this offensive line, offensive line, offensive line for years? It's all Kirk needs. It's all Kirk needs. It's all Kirk needs. He gets the number one pass blocking line

and tears his Achilles on a play where nothing happened. That's life for you, I suppose, just like we were talking about early on. I think they're set up extremely well. We'll see how much they like Reisner for the future. If he comes back, they do have to work around some of the run blocking. But Ingram at right guard has also had some, you know, man, pretty bad moments, especially

early in the season. Right now he's in the dead middle of the league as far as guards go, which is a massive improvement from last year where he was at the absolute bottom. So he's been a man player. And when you have two elite tackles and a center and Garrett Bradbury, who we don't talk about enough, the linemen, when they say they only talk about us when we're terrible, they're right. They are right. Because we have, we're just like, Oh, Garrett Bradbury. Yeah. He's fine. At one point, you know, he was getting benched for Mason Cole. And then now he's at a point where he has been a trustworthy, above-average center to go along with two of

the best tackles in the league. So it's, it has been a very good offensive line. I think it's set up really well for the future. I'd probably go a, a minus for both because I don't think it's been perfect in the run game. There has been some bad moments, some strip sacks and some mistakes early in the season. And, you know, it's not perfect. It's not the 92, you know, Dallas Cowboys, but it's pretty good. Let's talk about the defensive line. And this is an interesting one because Daniel Hunter certainly gets high grades. But I'm curious what you think they should be graded as an entire unit. because I've been saying for the longest, I guess for the last year and a half,

that it would be nice to see a little bit more of an impact from the interior defensive line in terms of a pass rush. It'd be nice to see a guy in there that's a little bit more disruptive. I mean, Harrison Phillips, I think, is a solid player. I mean, he's not a bad player, and he'll make some plays for you here and there. But they don't really have, you know, we've just, as followers of the Vikings, we've been on the other side of this,

of seeing, like, other guys, guys like Akeem Hicks and Fletcher Cox just be absolute nightmares for what the Vikings have presented as an offensive line. And they don't really have that guy in terms of interior defensive linemen. So I'll kind of knock them down a little bit because of that. It's not a bad group. I mean, like I said, Harrison Phillips is solid. Jonathan Bullard is just kind of a guy, but he's not terrible. You know what I mean? And so they've got some other rotation guys

that come in and kind of give you a little bit. But like you said, Daniil Hunter is such a monster and he's having another great season. And if the Vikings don't pay him, somebody is going to, and they're going to be pretty happy with, with the result. I think, cause he's, he's fantastic. He's not showing any signs of slowing down.

So I think he definitely helps boost the unit up. So I'll give them kind of a solid B just because they've not been terrible. And Daniel Hunter's production has been outstanding. And even DJ Wanham on the other side is kind of a pass rusher, has been really solid too. So I'll give the defensive line a solid B. Folks, it's the holiday season again, and it is quite hectic. So let's admit it.

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50% off. That's code purple50 at factormeals.com slash purple50. Go there today to get 50% off. I think they deserve that. The run game has really been great after the early season game against the Eagles. But after that, no one has run against them. Even teams that are pretty good at running have not run successfully very often against them, including the Chicago Bears, who tried to run with Justin Fields. They tried to run with the running backs, a couple of successful plays, but one of the best run defenses in the league. So that's the sacrifice of, you know, do you want big beasts in there

or do you want the pass rushers? I agree with you on needing some interior pass rush. They've had to manufacture pass rush with all the blitzing and so forth. But if you told me that they were going to have one of the best run defense units in the league, 14 sacks out of Daniil Hunter, seven more from DJ Wanham, that they were able to survive the loss of Marcus Davenport and still be pretty decent. I would say you deserve a pretty high grade into the future though, might be a D. If Hunter's not staying, it's not looking very good

for them in the future because i think you could bring back dj want him in a rotational type of rusher he's clearly done better in the flores role but still is not like someone you necessarily want starting if you're going to have a top-notch defense look at san francisco look at philadelphia like that's the standard. That's where you have to get to. They are nowhere close to that. And if they lose Hunter, they are really, really, really nowhere close to that. This is one that's going to have a lot to talk about into the future. So as far as the backend goes, it's kind of like linebackers are two people. Essentially it's just Ivan Pace and Jordan Hicks. So, okay. That's been

good. I think, I don't know that we need to have a long discussion about it. Ivan Pace has done well and whatever. You know, that like that, that he's going to be there for the future. I don't know about Jordan Hicks. Okay. That's two guys. They have their own coach though. So that's interesting. That goes to my theory of every player needs their own coach, and there's two guys that play and they have a coach. So anyway, the defensive backfield, did you do it like safeties, corners, or did you do it like defensive backfield? I did defensive backfield, so I kind of combined the two, safeties and corners as well.

And I gave it a solid, you know, as it stands right now, I gave it a B plus. It's been the safeties have just been magnificent. Josh Metellus, man. I mean, I did. I, I, I'm going to take this moment to apologize to Josh Metellus. The reason why is because when we were talking about him earlier in the season, I compared him to Matthew Slater as just like, oh, he's a really solid special teams guy, good glue guy, high character guy, everybody likes him, he's a great story, yada, yada, yada.

Oh, he's much better than Matthew Slater. This guy has been, he was great on Monday night. He's all over the football field making plays. He's stepping into that nickel position as well, just kind of a hybrid safety nickel corner type of role. And then you factor in all the positive things I said about him earlier into that package, and he's just been fantastic. He's legit good.

Obviously, I think one of the best players on this defense. Cam Bynum has been great. Harrison Smith, we know what he brings to the table. He's probably a Hall of Famer. And then the young corners, I think, are showing some promise. I don't think any of them are going to be like elite cover guys or anything like that. Like, I don't think they're going to be like all pro, even like what, you know, Xavier Rhodes was back in like 2016, 2017 or anything like like that but they've been they've been really good and

and i think they've shown a lot of improvement brian floors i think has helped with that a lot um you know mckay blackman has been solid when you have him in the right you know kind of position i think the right situation that the courtland Sutton thing in Denver. I mean, that was just what he he's, he's not the right guy to be in that position. You know, he just got kind of a kind of bad luck in that being in that spot. So that was tough for him, but you know, I like a Caleb Evans. I think he's, you know, he's got the size, I think, to be a really good solid corner for them.

So I'll give the defensive backs overall a B+, just because I think the safeties are really good, and I think the corners are – the young corners are showing some promise. Byron Murphy Jr. is kind of hard to really read him because at times it looks like he's doing really well, and then there's other times where it's like, where is he? Should he have been in that position no probably not um so uh but i think overall the defensive back unit has been really good so i'll give them a a b plus and and long term i think just talking about

the young corners i think and the safeties i mean even if harrison smith moves on you still got cam bynum who's young you still got joshellus, who's young. So I think they're set up pretty well for the future long term as well. Yeah, this sort of ties into something, which is Andrew Booth Jr. and Louis Scene are not really a part of this conversation. And I don't care. This is something that just, for example, did anyone want the Minneapolis miracle to be taken away because it was by a fifth rounder not laquan treadwell who was a first rounder probably not i don't care when they were

drafted you need to find players how you find them does not matter to me at all you need them and it doesn't matter if it's a sixth round guy or a first round guy the the new england patriots weren't like you know darn we drafted michael bishop higher than uh tom brady so it's none of the superbowls count i don't care i understand you can relitigate that draft all you want but they have found players including a caleb evans in the fourth round that looks like a solid guy going forward and mckay blackman is the third highest graded rookie corner by pFF so far this year, has come in really since day one at training camp and looked competent at that position, if not somebody who can be even better going forward.

Murphy, that signing, I don't think has worked out quite as well as they wanted it to. But he also is not getting roasted all the time. There's been missed tackles. There's been a couple of times he got mossed, but it's when you have a corner who really stinks. I mean, it feels like hopeless when the ball goes up in their way. I don't feel that way about Byron Murphy,

but Josh would tell us, I see in the comments, pay Mattel is actually, they already did. And this is one of the great moves by the front office, like a low-key subtle move they signed him before the season he'd be worth way more now that was like a really good signing and just real quick on matel's i agree with your grades i just think that this unit has been

really really terrific uh that in training camp i was doing a story about matelis's intelligence and how it's like his superpower. And he's also really aggressive and a really great tackler as well. Maybe I didn't give him enough credit there. Really, really bright guy. And just gelled immediately with Brian Flores. They're on the same page. Like he's like, he's really the thing that's making this defense work. And I was asking Jordan Hicks about Metellus's intelligence to write the story about it. And Jordan Hicks, who's a rather intense to write the story about it. And Jordan Hicks, who's a rather intense guy as many middle linebackers are says,

Oh, we've known he was great. And I was like, Oh yeah. And he's like, and for, if you're listening, I'm nodding intensely.

And I was like, Oh, okay. Like cool. You know, like great. Jordan Hicks was right. The players know they know who

can play and he has turned into, I mean, really, if you're looking for comps, he's like, I was thinking about this today. Everyone's talking about, oh, you should have drafted Kyle Hamilton. I think you have someone who's very similar here in what Josh Metellus is doing and Jordan Poyer and what he's done for Buffalo being the box safety for a long time. That's what you have in Josh Metellus. It's really been something. Kickers, no, I don't care. They've both been not good.

And I don't know. Someday you'll find a kicker you trust, but it's not. It really has been quite bad in the kicking and punting. People want to blame a special teams coach. And I'm like, well, he did pick them, but they didn't have a lot of money. I don't know. Ryan Wright's been a disappointment i guess kicking it over them mountains isn't something that like always translates to great punting i don't know yeah i mean ryan wright was great

last year i mean he how many touchbacks i think i don't think he had any touchbacks at all last year right like he was really good i mean i know punting we don't talk about that a lot because how much does it really matter but when you have a a good one, like Ryan Wright was last year, it does kind of make a difference. And he's, yeah, he's not been good. Greg Joseph is just, I think Greg Joseph is giving everybody a headache right now. You just don't know if you can really trust them at all. And so, yeah, it feels like a, it feels like a D in the kicking game right now. Yeah, I would say so. I think there, I think Joseph is something like 26th in field goal percentage and Ryan Wright is 20th in net. And your memory is good. Cause I looked this up. Someone asked me like, is there any analytics on

punting? Like kind of, and the touchback percentage has been terrible this year. Sometimes it's been like, he put it in the right spot and the guy didn't make the play. But last year there were hardly any touchbacks. He punted well. So I don't know. I don't want to spend too much time on the punting. It's just not great. Not great for either one of those things.

And that's, I guess, how stuff regresses sometimes. So let me just real quick give you my prize picks. And then if you got five more minutes, Manny, I'd love to still get your list because we went longer on the ranting at the beginning about, you know, people freaking out or whatever. And I took up more time than I meant to, but you put the work in to get the list. So I want to, I want to get the list, but let me give you the prize picks for this week.

With the Vikings not playing, I just picked a random quarterbacks. And here's how it works. If you go to prize picks for this week with the Vikings not playing I just picked uh random quarterbacks and here's how it works if you go to prizepicks.com you pick more or less on yardage totals for somewhere between two and six players I usually go with three and that's all you have to do to be playing uh prizepicks.com slash purple if you use the code you get your first deposit match up to a hundred dollars. And what's great about it is that you can play and earn a good amount of money without having to take out a second mortgage mortgage. So prizepix.com slash purple, and that will get you in there playing and they'll match your first deposit.

So here are the picks my prize picks for this week. I am going with Jordan Love to pass for less than 231.5 yards against the very good Kansas City Chiefs defense, and some of the love for Jordan Love will be taken down a bit of a notch. I'm going to go less there. Kenny Pickett, with his new offensive coordinator, will go more than 199.5 yards. I was sold last week actually seeing him throw the football to receivers in the middle of the football field.

And Jared Goff against a miserable New Orleans team will go for more than 260.5 yards because New Orleans is kind of melting down. And Detroit wants to bounce back. They also had extra rest. All right, let's end on this. So Josh Dobbs, if he's benched, we're going to look back and go, remember that. I mean, that's going to be a great one for us when we're like 68.

You know, Manny, you remember Josh Dobbs? He'd be like, oh yeah, he did that thing against Atlanta. He came in the game and he had that run. Did you like us? That was my impression of us at 68 years old. So what I asked you to do was your favorite flash in the pan quarterbacks because it's very possible, and not 100%, not 100%, but very possible that Josh Dobbs could be a flash in the pan. A couple of games got hot.

Everybody talked about him. Everybody loved him. A woman from ABC news who like is covered wars was interviewing Josh Dobbs for the pregame last week. And we met her. She was very nice, but I was like, you've covered wars and you're out here doing like a Josh Dobbs story. It's wild.

And then he played like he played in my gift bench. So such as life in pro sports. So I'd love your list of your five favorite flash in the pan quarterbacks. Okay. So some of these involve Vikings, the Vikings being on the short end of the stick, things not ending well for the Vikings, basically. But I'll go with the list anyway. So number five, this one doesn't involve that.

But I'm going to go Matt Castle in 2008. Tom Brady, week one against the Kansas City Chiefs, blows out his knee and Matt Castle steps in. And this is a guy Matt Castle that didn't even play in college at USC he was Carson Palmer's backup and then he was Matt Leinert's backup and USC he backed up two other guys that ended up being high NFL draft picks barely ever played and then actually turned it into a like a decade-long career as a backup and started a little bit.

Was an owner and a starter in Kansas City. Got paid a lot of money. But 2008, he comes in for Tom Brady, and the Patriots go 11-5. Now, it helped to have Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to on that team too. They went 11-5. Didn't make the playoffs because the Dolphins had a tiebreaker over them in the AFC East and ended up winning the division uh so an 11 and 5 team that didn't make the playoffs you know

how does that happen but but it did but Matt Gasol played well and ended up getting him a a contract with the Kansas City Chiefs they tried to have him as the franchise quarterback and then you kind of realized yeah no, not really. Although they made the playoff. They did make the playoffs one year with him. But overall, like, he was never going to be a long-term starter for anybody. Obviously, we know him from his time here with the Vikings, too, as well, towards the end.

But Matt Castle, 2008, pretty damn good. Number four, Nick Foles. Not 2017 Nick Foles, though. 2013 Nick Foles. Go back. If you don't remember, go back. Look at the 2013 Eagles with Chip Kelly and just look at Nick Foles' numbers. They are outrageous that year.

It's like a 27-2 touchdown interception ratio right it totally totally wild it's like 9.5 yards per attempt or something like that too it's just it's just ridiculous so there was a time where like nick foals was like really really good and it you know he was great 2017 when they won the super bowl but 2013 he was he was uh he was outstanding. So that one there. Number three, and I know you as a guy growing up in Buffalo probably remember this as a kid. Jeff Hostetler with the New York Giants in 1990 comes in for Phil Simms, who gets hurt late in the year.

And I don't know how he did it. I mean, the Giants defense was great, obviously, with Lawrence Taylor and that unit that kind of carried them to the Super Bowl and winning it against the Bills. But Hostetler was solid. He didn't cost them any games. You know what I mean? And kind of the same thing.

It kind of gave him an opportunity to become a starter with the Raiders for a few years and obviously didn't quite work out. And he certainly came back down to earth. But led the Giants to a Super Bowl win out of nowhere, kind of like Nick Foles did with the Eagles in 2017. Number two is one that I just is special. The Vikings ended up being on the short end of the stick of this, but I think it was a really special run historically. And it's Doug Williams with

Washington in 1987. Jay Schrader was the starter for them that year. And, you know, Doug Williams started a couple of games in that season. The numbers were pretty good. Washington didn't win either of those games, but Joe Gibbs still named him the starter for the playoffs, and he played really well, and then he was great in that Super Bowl. They beat the Vikings in the NFC title game, obviously, in 87, and then Doug Williams was, even if it was just for a quarter,

that second quarter in Super bowl uh super bowl 22 against the broncos he was outstanding and they blew out blew out uh blew out denver and you know doug williams hung around the league a couple of years after that um but he was a guy that had some injuries too over the course of his career so it never really the magic never really continued after that but obviously from a historical standpoint it was huge because he was the first african-american quarterback to uh to win a super bowl and so that holds a lot of historical weight for me and it's it's it holds a special place in my heart obviously too so that's number two and number one come on it's got to be case keenum 2017 right i mean come on there was no other there's no other

option for me um you know i've said it to you many times how much of an appreciation i have for case keenum just for how fun that season was obviously it ended very poorly in philadelphia but um case stepping in and and just playing well and taking the cheap shots from Mike Zimmer after every game in stride and just continuing to just go out there and just play and lead the team to wins and everything was really impressive. So it was a lot of fun.

So Case Keenum is number one for me from 2017. You know, if not for the Minneapolis miracle, it probably wouldn't make that list because he would have been the guy who gave it away in the playoffs after having a 17 point lead. And then he throws a bad interception and yada, yada, yada. And it's funny how one, one play, one decision by a safety from the new Orleans saints, one great catch and digs not going out of bounds results in just him being a

part of lore forever. There's a couple of funny ones that I thought of along the way. When I asked you this question, one was Matt Flynn getting the big contract with Seattle after playing like one game that was good, but it was really good. It was really good. It's hard not to say Chris Chandler,

the rest of Chris Chandler's career is bleh. And then in 1998, he guy averages like nine yards of pass attempt has an incredible season. Sorry for everybody for bringing that up, but they were 14 and two. It was an unbelievable year for Chris Chandler. Bobby Hoyne came to mind as somebody that very briefly the Eagles thought like, I think we got our franchise quarterback here,by hoying and then they most certainly did not um the one growing up that drove me the most crazy flash in the pan was trent edwards started a season five and one and someone i used to work at a grocery store and i was talking about how i was like i don't think he's

that good and a guy stopped me in the grocery store and he said and i was i don't know 25 or something and he's like i've been watching football since whatever year for this is 1971 and i'll tell you this this trend edwards he reminds me of joe montana and i was like oh no all right if you say so pal and uh yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. So that didn't work out. And, you know, of course, there are many more along the way. But another one is like Josh Freeman. I mean, for a minute, Josh Freeman in Tampa Bay looked like their franchise quarterback.

There is a lot of that. How about Carson Wentz? Not a favorite, but Carson Wentz is a flash in the pan quarterback. I mean, the dude can barely get a job now. He's on a practice squad. And just a couple of years ago, he's in the MVP conversation. Injury, everything else plays a role in that one. So anyway, well, another very fun show.

I'm glad that we got the list in there and enjoyed going through and doing some bi-week discussion with grading the team. So everybody, I think take a deep breath during your bi-week, take a deep breath, book your trip to Vegas, and we'll see what happens from here, but it could be on the rocky side. So Manny, thanks for your time. Go enjoy the rest of the game and we will talk very soon. Football.