Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Everything we learned from Vikings OTAs

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Matthew Coller runs down his list of everything we learned about the Vikings in OTAs and then dives into how rushing attempts will be distributed after Dalvin Cook is gone, Trey Lance's future and much more Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself. Build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. Great to have you. As Minnesota Vikings OTAs are over, they have two week, and that will be the end of the summer program. And if I look, if you're watching on YouTube, if I look a little hot, I am. I was just outside going for a jog. And let me tell you, it's hot, very warm, and it's smoky outside as well. And I do have the Oakley sunglasses with me, but I'll save that for later

because later on we'll have some hot routes for you. Jonathan Harrison will join, but that's not until probably a little after eight o'clock. So we've got quite a while here to run down all the things that we learned from OTAs. And I want your guys' questions and feedback as well to the subjects that I have laid out. I picked out a bunch of things, I don't know, seven or eight things that I feel like we did learn from OTAs. And I know that I've told you guys in the past that it is hard to learn a lot from OTAs. And what I mean is I'm standing there watching Dwayne McBride run through a drill where he's got to jump through some netting and then they have a football helmet on a stick,

not just the football on a stick, but the football helmet on a stick. And they're trying to have the guy pretend to knock it down. Like it's a defender. Like those are the types of things they're doing. But today's practice was actually quite intense. So we were able to take a little bit more. They did some drills, some situational drills that looked a little bit like a training camp practice. So they were turning up the heat on the guys a little bit, and then they tried to spike it, kick the final field goal, kind of do all that sort of thing. And they are broken up on the two fields that are first and second slash third team. And we got to look at kind of who was getting the first reps. Now, these are not things that we can say are absolutely going to happen once training camp comes along for how guys are being deployed right now in OTAs because lots can change in training camp.

But today was really the first practice where it looked like a real football practice and not just kind of a light jog through with some goal line seven on seven. Like there was some legit 11 on 11 going on. And so I've got some takeaways just from the three weeks of OTAs to run through but very happy to take any questions from you guys that are watching live on YouTube so I want to start out with this which is that Delvin Cook is likely playing somewhere else we just don't know where or when. And I know you could say, well, wait a minute. We didn't just learn that today. That's been speculated for months.

But the preponderance of the evidence continues to grow surrounding Delvin Cook. And I mean really grow to the point today where when Wes Phillips, the Vikings offensive coordinator, was asked about Ty Chandler, like, hey, do you think Ty Chandler will be ready to take on some snaps? And Wes Phillips said, well, he's going to have to be. And like, oh, yeah? Why is that? Is that because Delvin Cook's not going to be here?

So, and, you know, the evidence from the reporters on the national level, Adam Schefter tweeting out something that really pointed to his exit. Kevin Seifert has reported on this. Alexander Madison has looked really good in OTAs. He's gotten a ton of work. One thing that always stands out about Alexander Madison is his ability to catch the ball, which I think they like. Kevin O'Connell talked about him being a three down back and getting the work in the OTAs. I mean, so everything is pointing in the direction of Delvin Cook being gone. And now more and more teams are starting to emerge as potential landing spots. I've seen the Dolphins, the Broncos, even the New York Jets were connected to Delvin Cook.

But when that happens, if it's going to be a trade, if he's going to be released, continues to be a mystery. But next week with mandatory minicamp, it seems like that creates a little bit of a mini deadline for everything here when it comes to what's going to happen with Justin Jefferson. That's not really a deadline, but is he going to be there? Is Daniil Hunter going to be there? Will Delvin Cook still be on the team? I think that at least by mandatory minicamp, they want to make a decision on Delvin Cook,

or at least they should. That makes sense to me. So everybody goes into the offseason, the real offseason for them, the six or so weeks in between where they have no practices. Everybody goes back home or on vacation or whatever they're doing. I think you want that running back room and really the rest of the offensive staff to go in knowing exactly what's going to happen when it comes to Delvin Cook. So that was a thing that we kind of learned, I would say, during this OTA is that if it

was going to happen, they were going to bring him back. It feels like it would have happened by now. But if it's going to happen, if there's going to be some surprise heel turn where all of a sudden he takes a last second pay cut and returns during minicamp, that would be very shocking at this point. over and we're moving on. And I don't think that's a bad thing. So very happy to take any of your comments and questions as I run through the things that we learned from Miles, Marcus Davenport in coverage. He looked decent. Well, it is OTAs and I don't think we are going to see a lot of Marcus Davenport in coverage. I mean, last year there was a lot of angst about whether Daniil Hunter and Z'Darrius Smith would be dropping back into coverage. I can actually look this up on PFF to find out how often that actually even

happened. How often was Daniil Hunter in coverage last year? Because I just can't imagine they will be putting Marcus Davenport back in coverage very often. So let's see, coverage snaps 31 through the whole season. So once or twice a game, I guess if they're going to do that, that's fine with Marcus Davenport, but you know, he's an interesting story as well. There were times I saw him lining up inside and I wonder how much they're going to move him around. Will he be the wide rusher? Will he be more of a three, four defensive end for them? He's a really big guy. So he has the power rusher? Will he be more of a 3-4 defensive end for them? He's a really big guy.

So he has the power to be able to do that, to line up over the tackle, or he could be in a wide type of role. It's really hard to tell at this point in OTAs. They're doing a lot of base defense. I've noticed just how much Brian Flores wants to move guys around is really absurd. Like in comparison to last year, it couldn't be a bigger difference for how much we're seeing guys move around all over the field. So you have, you know, today, Josh Metellus is blitzing off the edge. It's like, oh, Josh Metellus, was it outside linebacker blitzing?

But okay. And you see three safeties on the field at times, which we're going to get to in just a second. So the way that he's deploying players, even in OTAs, it looks like all gas and no brakes. It was interesting to hear Wes Phillips talk about it because he was saying that the offense is having to figure out answers on answers on answers for Brian Flores' defense. And it's clearly a home-runner strikeout defense, where if the blitzes and the rushes and the confusion doesn't work or there's anybody who's not in the right place, there's going to be some trouble. But at the same time, it also causes a lot of confusion for the offense.

And Byron Murphy Jr. was saying that it forces the offense to get the ball out quickly a lot of confusion for the offense. And Byron Murphy Jr. was saying that it forces the offense to get the ball out quickly a lot of times, which helps as far as the coverage players. But that's only if the blitzes work and create pressure. So how they use Marcus Davenport, is it going to be the wide role? Is it going to be inside? Are they going to move them around a lot? Definitely something to watch when we get to training camp. My second takeaway from OTAs is that Lewis Seen is healthy, but is he the number two safety? Right now, it does not seem like that is the case. Now, that's not saying anything yet because we have a long way to go, but Cam Bynum and Josh Metellus, what you have to understand about those guys is they are very intelligent. They are very smart football players.

Cam Bynum, I remember, blew away Mike Zimmer with his intelligence right from the very beginning from the time that he got here. And Josh Metellus has become a really experienced player for them who has proven it on special teams and has kind of got the Anthony Harris vibe of being a high intelligence player that works his way up. And these guys are both draft picks too, like Louis seen as seen as a first rounder. So he gets much more attention, but these aren't just guys that they picked up off the street. Like these are players that they drafted once upon a time and have a legitimate chance to be playing next to Harrison Smith. And the way that they've been used so far in OTAs

has been looking like Cam Bynum is the starter. Josh Metellus is that third safety and Louis Seen is the backup to those three guys, similar to where he began last year. I don't think that that's a problem because at this moment, because Louis Seen should have to work his way up on the depth chart and he should have to get the defense just as well as these other guys do. And then he's more naturally talented than them. And that's what you're looking for is that to eventually take over, but it does raise a little bit of an eyebrow that he has not gotten a lot of the first team looks so far. And you could say, well, he's coming off of an injury, and that is true. But at the same time, he has been 100% participating,

really from the outset of the offseason workout. He hasn't had to stand on the sideline because of his injury or anything like that, like some of the other guys who have worked on the other field. He's been fully participating in everything, which is a miracle of science, by the way. It's absolutely incredible considering how nasty of an injury that was that he suffered in London last year. But it's not at all a panic button for Louis seen. It's just an observation that I think he starts training camp having to earn that starting spot and jump over two players who are pretty good. They're not schlubs. I mean, if he's going to win that job, he's going to have to master Brian Flores' defense and look like a difference maker because we know this about football coaches.

They're going to go with who they trust more than who has the most raw talent. And I know that that has frustrated people sometimes in the past with draft picks. Like, why are they going with this guy over that guy? Well, sometimes it is because the person who's playing understands the scheme better. And even if it's not the best results, someone who doesn't understand the scheme is really going to struggle. And Byron Murphy said, it's really about getting lined up properly first. And if you can't do that, then you're going to have some problems. So an observation, not a, oh my gosh, he's a bust or anything like that yet. But I think we do kind of have to put a little bit of a date on it in

training camp. If we don't see him getting the first team reps in mandatory mini camp, and then we go into training camp, if it's two, three weeks into training camp and he's still not getting those first team reps, then it's time to start asking that question. Is this going to work out for the Vikings first round draft pick? He went to Georgia. He should be able to get this. Safety is the easiest position by the numbers. You know how we talk about with the offensive linemen

how long it takes to progress? Well, safety is the easiest position in terms of transitioning to the NFL according to a PFF study that was done a couple of years ago by Timo Riske. So it seems to me that that should happen pretty early in training camp if it's going to happen. And if it doesn't, then we start talking about, well, I guess their future at safety might have to be one of these two guys. I think Metellus is going into a contract year.

Bynum is in his third season. So we'll see how that plays out. But that's going to be a huge storyline in training camp, watching every day where are they mixing in Louis Seam. Miles asks, how does the defensive unit seem to be gelling with all the changes made to that side of the ball? The biggest thing is, for my observation from just listening to these guys talk, is that they seem to be excited about it, and they seem to be excited about it and they seem to be

happy about it. And I don't know that that was so much the case last year. Maybe it's bias for, we know what the results were and maybe they seemed excited last year. I don't really remember that. I remember them talking about how different it was from Mike Zimmer, but I don't remember the same sort of like, oh yeah, this is better for us. This is more fun for us. Caleb Evans and Andrew Booth Jr. both kind of said, yeah, we've got to learn a lot more football with Brian Flores. So gelling is hard to tell because it's OTAs and because they're not hitting each other and they're not wearing pads and it's hard to be really physical. So are they really getting it or not? It doesn't look like a disaster to me, but I would say it's a very small sample size and

hard to tell. So we can only really go by their body language, how they're talking. And it seems like there's a lot of excitement for this defense. I mean, I think if you're a defensive player, you're going to lean much more toward a defensive mind that wants to be aggressive and is pushing everybody to be a big part of this thing part of the pass rush right so you have safeties coming up to the line of scrimmage and blitzing you have guys moving around you're causing a lot of havoc for the offense and there have been a few times where the offense looked a little frustrated like wow these guys are throwing a lot at us early on. And that's kind of what you want to see is a is a more aggressive.

It's been more physical than last year's OTAs with just how much they've had hands on each other. And I mean, no one's gotten hurt or anything. It's not crazy, but it's just been a little more gritty than it was last year. And I think that's Brian Flores' influence. So that's the best I can do right now. And I mean, look, there's a lot of players that are just really unproven on this defense. So are they gelling? That might take a while because there are so many guys that we're not really sure of. We're not really sure if Daniel Hunter's even going to be here. And the secondary, who's even going to play in the secondary? We were just talking about Louis seen,

but we don't even know what the cornerback position and it has stuck out to me that Makai Blackman, who I expected to have a chance to play right away. He's been getting a lot of work with that first team. And I think that he was somebody in the draft. They really, really liked and that they want him to get those opportunities. He is older at 24 years old. So, you know, this isn't like a 20 year old developmental

prospect. I think they wanted him to come in and be a player for them right away. So I've noticed him out there playing on the first team field a handful of times, whether they come together or not, that's going to play out through training camp, play out through the regular season. But as of right now, they're kind of figuring out what everyone's role is. And that was what Brian Flores talked about maybe two weeks ago, just finding their identity, figuring out what guys do well, who's even going to be on the field. I mean, I remember a couple of years back when the Vikings brought back their whole defense and Mike Zimmer, he was just running everything he could come up with to go against their offense because all those

guys knew the defense inside and out. That's not the case here. There's a lot to learn about these players and how well they play together as we go along. For those just joining the live stream, feel free to jump in, ask your OTA questions. Now that OTAs are over, minicamp is coming up. Interested in anything that's on your mind, but I've also got a list of things that I'm running down, but feel free to jump in at any time with any questions. My next on the list is the receiver depth. So depth receiver, that battle, we've really seen it on display. It's not very often that you get a real look at a receiver battle or any position battle in OTAs because normally the starters are getting all the work and they're just kind of going through the motions a little bit,

three-quarters speed and so forth. But this battle is beginning already. And is it Jalen Naylor's season? Is Tristan Jackson interesting interesting he made some great plays in otas today there was a drill they ran where it was the situational drill you have to drive and you have to get to a certain spot spike it kick the field goal and tristan jackson made a great catch which you would say oh who cares right it's otas and i know i'm like the king of that but last year in training

camp, he was doing the same thing. He was making plays all the time. And that's how he got a position on the team over Amir Smith. Mar set was, it seemed like they trusted him. And he also made a lot of plays in camp. And that's what it usually comes down to. I think Tristan Jackson is a guy to watch for the depth, uh, Brandon Powell, the guy they brought in who's a punt returner slash kind of playmaker receiver had some plays. And Jalen Rager got a shout out from Wes Phillips today and has actually made some catches in OTAs. That is not me saying that you should start up the Jalen Rager hype train.

They got a steal in the trade and he's going to be the guy. There's still a decent chance that they cut jalen regger before the season if you're making out your 53 i don't really know where to put him but this depth receiver battle it's in recent past has not really been something to talk about it's the is albert wilson gonna something like usually past the top three it's been quite bad uh but this year i don't know that it's going to be quite bad i mean with jaylen nailer making a lot of plays in otas and west phillips was talking about how when they went back through their tape from last year that he showed up a lot on that tape that they liked what they saw when he got into games and when they were practicing and so forth and then we're seeing it here and something that

keenan mccardle told me the other day i sat down with keenan mccardle to talk about kj osborne and make sure you check out that article i tweeted out a couple times at matthew collar but it's also on the newsletter if you want to see it there so when i I was talking to Keenan McArdle, he was telling me that a couple years ago during training camp and OTAs and minicamp that he went out of his way to make sure that KJ Osborne got a lot of opportunities. He was coming in even in some spots where normally Justin Jefferson would be in on that play, but they were taking Jefferson out, putting Osborne in, making sure in practices he was making big plays. That seems to be what they're doing with Jalen Naylor this year.

And also it's worth bringing up that KJ Osborne's been terrific again in minicamp, but that's kind of expected. I'm sorry in OTAs, but that's kind of expected. But Jalen Naylor with Jordan Addison out and Justin Jefferson not here has been the guy that stepped up the most then Tristan Jackson and Jalen Rager so all of a sudden that battle looks like they might actually have something Rager I'm not as confident in but Naylor and Jackson so far standing out there's a few other guys that are battling for that position as well and we'll see how it plays out but that that one, I'm telling you in recent years, it's been like BC Johnson versus

Chad Beebe versus Laquan Treadwell versus Jordan Taylor versus Kendall Wright versus, I think it's a little better than that. I think there's a little more potential here. Folks, I've been wearing Oakleys now for a few weeks. And let me tell you, there is a reason that Justin Jefferson and a bunch of other football players wear these things because they are awesome. I've got the matte black prism, sapphire, polar sunglasses on, and I've been doing all sorts of summer things with them. I've been hitting golf balls in the water, jogging, playing basketball, getting sunburned, but my eyes are in good shape. I have been missing out on this experience for a long time. They are so comfortable. I can wear them all day and never get tired of

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there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. I've worn sunglasses in the past, and I can assure you that Oakley is the best looking and best quality out there. So go on over to oakley.com for more information today. Oakley, express your style and build a look that's made for you. Next on my list, Brian Flores is going to move players around like crazy and challenge the heck out of the vikings offense in training camp and i know we discussed this a little bit with miles's question about whether they're gelling together but i think it's quite clear

that the physical nature of training camp is going to be ramped up with Brian Flores and also the fact that they're doing joint practices. And I am really, really interested to see how they decide to deploy a lot of these guys because they do have versatile talents. That was a word that became borderline obnoxious during the draft because we just kept saying it about every guy that they were picking. But even when Kevin O'Connell was asked about Byron Murphy, and I wrote a little about this too, about his role, Byron Murphy over his career has essentially split almost 50-50 his snaps between the inside and outside. And by the the numbers I looked up how Mackenzie Alexander and um Chandon Sullivan did over the last two years spoiler not good and I compared it to Byron Murphy's career and the difference in quarterback rating yards per snap all those things huge huge difference from Byron

Murphy and his performance during his career as a nickel. And the way Kevin O'Connell put it was, it looks like Murphy's going to start out at the nickel, but then on base personnel. So if there's like a big package or whatever, the other team has a couple of tight ends, fullback, if they're a good, smart team, then Byron Murphy will go to the outside as a cornerback. So he's going to be on the field for every play.

But O'Connell said he feels like he can be one of the best inside corners in the league now you can do that if you have the outside corners but if there's injuries to a Caleb Evans or Andrew Booth Jr. or they're not performing very well in training camp and got to make a change then all of a sudden kind of all hell breaks loose at that position Byron Murphy might have to go outside we might have to see uh Makai Blackman come inside like there's a lot of different options that could happen and just the way that Flores is moving guys around pre-snap bringing linebackers up to the double a gap which we haven't seen in a while

but having them up on the line of scrimmage. How's Brian Asamoah going to work into this? We've seen Troy Dye out there. Troy Reeder is another guy that they signed who's been out there. So I think that on a daily basis, trying to track where everybody was lining up and who was on the field is going to be interesting come training camp time. Let's grab a couple more comments here.

Let's see from Daniel with Adam Thielen leaving a leadership role is open and wide receiver room. I thought Jefferson would fill that role, but with him gone, I'm impressed to see Osborne filling that role so well. Yeah. I mean, that's KJ Osborne. That's who he is. The thing about KJ Osborne is I know that some people, you know, talk about him as really like a wide receiver three and that is what he's been so far a pretty good one for a wide receiver three over the last two years statistically what like 110 catches I think over the last two years but when it comes to character like that's one of the reasons he was drafted here is he is one of the most intelligent players

that you're going to run into and, you know, hardworking leader type guy who hasn't really, like you said, had a reason to be in that leadership role. But I remember when he was drafted, Rick Spielman brought this up that he had gone from the University of Buffalo to University of Miami. And when he got there as a transfer, they made him the captain. And this was a little before everybody was doing portal transfers and, you know, just whatever anybody could play for any college football team a little before that. So that was kind of a big deal for them that they thought, wow, he could take over as a captain right away. That's pretty impressive.

And he hasn't really used that very much since he's been here. He's kind of been like developing and now he is taking over into that role. I don't know. Justin Jefferson is not like the, how can I put this? I don't want to say he's not a leader. Like he leads by being the best player and by showing up every day, competing in practice and all those things. In training camp last year, Jefferson was an absolute madman. And I think you're a leader by doing that. So I give that kind of credit.

I don't know if he's more of the, I'm going to teach younger wide receivers or something. He's still a young wide receiver himself. So Jefferson is more of leading by just being a superstar and being the go-to guy in every big situation where there's other leadership elements that I think KJ Osborne can deploy that Adam Thielen would have in years past. Just being the guy who's kind of steady and reliable for other people to look up to, things like that. So, yeah, I think that kj osborne does take that um kind of kind of role i i have come away feeling like um kj osborne should have a really good season i mean health is always a big thing who knows he's been healthy in the past but you can get banged up and be unlucky it just feels like he has come to this OTAs and made the plays and not sulked and not acted like,

oh, you drafted another receiver or whatever else. Like he's kind of taken that as something to put a chip on his shoulder. And it's been impressive. I mean, it's OTAs again, but we're getting KJ Osborne who has made steps, I think each year from, each year from when he got here to the huge leap to then another step last year, I think. Daniel adds, curious if Osborne has a big season. Does he get an extension with Hawkinson needing one and Addison being there? Well, one thing is about Jordan Addison, we don't know if he can play at all. I think he can, but I haven't even seen him in OTAs because he's been banged up

and we've seen this before from first round pick wide receivers where even well Justin Jefferson didn't play the first couple weeks a little bit extenuating circumstances but Stefan Diggs not a high draft pick but clearly a super talent he did not play in the first couple of weeks of his career either so I don't know, like, is Addison going to be ready right away? Is he going to need to be brought along a little slower or how is this going to play out? We have no idea. Is he going to get it? Is he not going to get it? Is he going to struggle? We know what Osborne can do. If he has a big season and Addison is a little bit on the fence or not great right away, then they could

offer him an extension. Where it becomes hard is how much is that going to be? I mean, if he catches 70 passes, how much is that going to be when wide receivers hit the market? They get paid. They get big time money when you're even a decent wide receiver. So I think Osborne has a chance to catch 65, 70 passes and then go somewhere else and get a ton of money. It just doesn't seem like there's a great chance that he returns, but he's, I imagine, seeing this year as his big chance because when you're a fifth round pick,

you don't get a whole heck of a lot of money. So you get that one big contract, he could earn way more money on signing bonus day than he ever got before. So that's a nice motivating factor for him. And I think we've seen that so far. From Miles, have any other UDFAs wowed you? So the thing about the UDFAs is I've seen a little bit of the wide receivers, but when they break up into the two fields i'm standing watching the first team and you know some second teamers mix in and guys who are udfas are on the other field so i think we did see a little andre carter today with the twos i'm not 100 sure of who was mixing in but um you know

the udfas are mostly working over on that other field. So it's not like with training camp where you're seeing the ones, twos, threes get out there kind of right in front of you. This is and especially like preseason games where you get to see the UDFAs on display. And certainly with Kevin O'Connell as your coach, you're going to see that. But I haven't gotten a whole lot of look look there's been a couple of receivers who have made plays um malik knolls hasn't been working out but it's going to be probably until training camp till we start to get an idea of those udfas uh from zimbardo eights here is anybody other than madison getting first team reps at running back are we doomed to watch another bell cow slow down late in the season due to overuse?

Yeah. Yeah. No, there has been right. The Kenny Wong Wu, Ty Chandler, they've been working in there. It's kind of been those three because Dwayne McBride, he was just healthy today. Or I mean, he might not have been working out because of the contract thing, but I, I, I don't know that that's the case.

He was the last to get his contract done, but I think it was just an injury, but he was back working out today and he wasn't, he's not going to be somebody who's getting first team reps right away, but we have seen quite a bit of Kenny Wong Wu. We have seen Ty Chandler a lot and yeah, it's going to be Alexander Madison. I don't think though, Alexander Madison forces you like Delvin Cook did to play him all the time. The thing with Delvin Cook is that, well, one, he's a superstar. And when the guy is clearly better than anybody else in the running back room or has the reputation

as the pro bowler, the bell cow back, the running back coach who usually makes the decision on who's in the game, he's going to keep pushing that button. He's going to keep sending him out. They're not going to rotate too many times when you believe at any given time Delvin Cook could hit a home run and get a 70-yard touchdown. But the result of that was exactly what you said. It's a smart observation. He slowed down in the second half of every year,

and I think that was because they leaned on him so much. But there was also in the past, not so much this year, but in the past, there was also a huge gap between him and anybody else. I mean, Delvin cook was so good when he came into the league that Latavius Murray, who's still around and Jarek McKinnon, who's still around and just won the super bowl. Those guys didn't even have a chance. They weren't even close in 2017 training camp to Delvin cook. That's how much better he is than everybody else at his peak. And so you can understand in 2019, 2020, and even 2021, why they wouldn't have other guys rotating in much. But I think last year they leaned on him too much and should have been using

their other guys a little more. Ty Chandler was hurt for a good portion of last year, but I think that we are in line to see a lot of Alexander Madison. And this is going to be a subject a little later on the show when we do some hot routes, when Jonathan Harrison joins. But I do think we're going to see a lot more of the other guys. Kenne Wongwu is the most interesting one to me though, because he runs a 4-3 as a big man. You do not see that very often. As somebody who is that big and is that fast, I mean, I think he was a 99th percentile athlete at one of the most athletic positions

and yet could not get on the field. And, you know, he's got a whole year in the system and there's got to be some way to use Ken A. Wong Wu, right? Being that fast and that good. So we have seen him quite a bit and I couldn't tell you only the coaches could, if he's getting his assignments right, that's going to be the biggest thing. Alexander Madison, very high IQ player is going to get his assignments right. So if the other guys can, then I think we're going to see him on the field because Chandler and Wong will have noticeable burst, great quickness for both of those guys. And I think there is a chance to have a good running back rotation that adds up to being just

as good or better than their running game, probably better than their running game as a whole. I'm not saying just better than Delvin, but better than the running game they produced as a team last year, which was like 25th or something in yards per attempt as a team. From Jim, is there a kicking competition? Curious about the other guy they picked up. All right, let me try to remember the other guy that they picked up here because I saw him kick today, but I forget what his name is because he's a kicker and I haven't taken note of that. This is the first time I saw him kick today and he booted the heck out of it, by the way. I mean, he kicked one from like 55 and absolutely crushed it.

That is Jack Podlesny, Georgia. Yeah, Georgia, Jack jack pod lesney so there you go um is there a kicking competition i would say probably maybe i'm not 100 sure this dude has a big leg but they seem to really believe in greg joseph so i think greg joseph would have to struggle a lot during training camp and preseason for what's his name again pod Podlesny to have a chance. But yeah, I don't know. I think it really depends on if in training camp and during the preseason, if Podlesny kicks way better, then he's got a shot. The thing is, though, it's so hard to tell.

Because last year, Greg Joseph could not have been better during training camp. He was an absolute monster. He only missed a couple of kicks through the whole thing and then struggled during the regular season. I mean, overall, the Vikings got quite a few missed kicks last year. I think they were toward the top of the league in missed kicks last year by Greg Joseph. So should there be a kicking competition?

Absolutely. But they have shown a lot of trust. So I'm not 100% sure whether they're like, whether it's a legit competition or not. I tend to think though, like they didn't bring back Greg Joseph with a lot of money. So I would guess that it's always a competition, but I don't know a lot about the other kicker.

I mean, he went to Georgia and he's got a big leg and that's all I got for you. Let's see, from Miles, how is Josh Oliver fitting in the offense? Does it seem like he's going to be another receiving threat to pair with Hawk? They're saying that, I don't know that. He is one of the largest men I have ever seen, just period.

He is enormous. This guy looks like an edge rusher. He is six foot six, six foot seven. I think, I mean, they might list him at six, five. I don't know. He's huge. 270 pounds. That's not going to add up to a ton of speed, but could you run bootlegs and things like that and get him open and then get him moving because he's a really good athlete? Probably. It's hard for me to say right now if he's going to be a big part of that. But let's say receiving threat.

Like, what does that mean? Does that mean like 15 or 20 catches? I think he can get 15 or 20 catches. I don't think he's going to get any more than that. But I do think he could get a handful of catches. For his size, he moves really well, but this guy is borderline an offensive tackle. He is so big.

And I think he's here to run block and probably catch a handful of passes. Wes Phillips said today, hey, when he was drafted, he was a pass catching tight end. And that may be true, but you also have to get open in the NFL. I'm not sure they're dialing up many plays for him as the first option. It's probably more of him being like the

fourth option. And if he gets a handful of balls, he does. That would be my projection right now, but they're going to have an advantage when he's on the field, when they're trying to run. Let me run through a couple more of these, continue to drop your comments and questions, but I'm going to run through a couple more of these observations from OTAs. DJ Wanham was on the edge for the most part with Daniil Hunter not in attendance. I think in the past on the show, we've talked a lot about Patrick Jones. I was impressed at times with Patrick Jones last season. I thought that he flashed.

DJ Wanham is the much more experienced player. I can't decide whether, I mean, this might be a little bit of the modern analytics really guiding us. And I think rightfully so, but DJ Wanham not getting enough credit because of that, like DJ Wanham has put together a pretty decent start to his career for a rotational rusher had 42 pressures two years ago, 33 last year, but he doesn't have a great pressure rate,

and he has picked up a handful of sacks. He doesn't have a great pass rush win rate. I mean, maybe the guy's a little Yannick Ngakwe-ish. Let me look up how many sacks he has because PFF always – if you guys use PFF, you know that they have kind of their own version of sacks not the official nfl number so let me see what he had for career so he had four last year he's got 15 in his career but he's got a couple years of development in and you know i think that what i would want if they move on from uh daniel hunter is a competition there and to find out to find out if Patrick Jones or DJ

Wanham could be a guy that they're using all the time, because I mean, he's had development. He's got on the field quite a bit. And is there a step to be taken? I mean, if you're going to be picked in the middle rounds, you're going to have to develop. So DJ Wanham, you know, he seems also to be a guy that would really fit as the outside edge rusher, the wide nine or the outside linebacker much better than he would fit into like a Mike Zimmer four, three, which is, I think the year he got the most snaps was when he was playing more of a four, three. And he got kind of the eight sacks where a lot of them happened in one night against Justin Fields, who loves to take sacks.

So we really haven't taken DJ Wanham all that seriously as a potential starter, but it caught my eye today. And maybe with Brian Flores, a guy who's going to move these rushers around a little bit or give him an opportunity to get wide off the edge, that he does have a chance if Daniel Hunter isn't here. If Hunter is here, then it's going to be mostly Davenport and Hunter. At the same time, Davenport has never played. I think he's never cleared 600 snaps,

which to me says that Wanham and Jones should get their opportunities. And right now it looks like Wanham is ahead of Jones in terms of the depth chart. So that was something I noticed. Byron Murphy, I talked about a little bit earlier, was another observation. Playing a lot at nickel, is he going to stay there? And Makai Blackman, I think that he can make things interesting right away.

And this just speaks to how important it is for this defense to have hit on these draft picks. Because if you hit on these draft picks in the secondary and Evans, Booth Jr., Blackman, these draft picks because if you hit on these draft picks in the secondary and evans booth junior blackman these guys turn out to be decent or good or somewhere you don't even need all of them just some of them because we know byron murphy is a good player then i mean you're talking about a suddenly much much better secondary as a whole you're not going to have patrick peterson anymore but as a whole it's kind

of a weak link system so you're looking for all of those guys to kind of come together but if you miss on these draft picks then we're talking about kind of round and round and round we go with that position and so that's going to be I think the most interesting thing that we're watching for in training camp is just that secondary. From Jim, Lewis seen practicing with the ones? Does he look good? If not, should there be some concern? Bust? Well, he's not practicing with the ones-ish. I mean, he's gotten some practice with the ones, but not a ton. So I think right now he's behind Josh Metellus and Cam Bynum. I would guess Cam Bynum would be the starter today. And Metellus would be the third safety, which they're actually going to

use. So many times we've talked about a three safety scheme and it just never actually happened, which was just like last year, but this year it actually could. So let me say one more thing, but no, no, don't say bust about Lewis Seen yet. Don't say bust. We are way too far away. Could that be the case? Certainly could. But we are way too far away from calling it to say he's a bust.

Let's wait till at least through training camp before we decide. I would say three weeks into training camp, if he's not taking the majority of the first team reps, then there's deserves to be some concern there. If by the end of training camp, he doesn't win the job, then we are maybe talking about that B word because even though he had the injury, he's back to a hundred percent. Now he's got a full season of understanding the NFL. He should win that job. The bar is decently high, but it's not like he's got to beat out Troy Palomaro for this job.

So he should have enough talent to do it. So the last thing I wrote down for camp observations is have we changed our opinion on anything with the Vikings from OTAs? Are we still waiting to find out? It is very much the waiting game still with the Vikings. But have we changed our opinions on the whole? I think the only thing that you could not change an opinion,

but kind of be interested by is what we have seen from the secondary. And even though Louis seen is not playing with the first team, he is back healthy. And some of these young players look very interesting. And you combine that with Brian Flores' scheme, and maybe there's something there to be excited about for a training camp battle. That doesn't mean I would change a prediction or a win-loss or anything like that based on what we've seen so far. But knowing kind of what the backfield's going to look like,

what the camp battles are going to look like, there's a lot of intrigue with this roster and i would say that my big takeaway from otas and this won't change with minicamp my big takeaway from otas is that there are so many more battles on the table than there have been in years past because in years past we kind of knew who all the starters were going to be. And then it was, well, who's going to be the fifth wide receiver and so forth. But, you know, I really think that this year has a lot more of that interest for, like, a wide receiver going to step up and force his way like a Jalen Naylor into a rotation, or is someone going to surprise us? Uh, the secondary of course is almost entirely up in the air. The linebacking group is too. I mean, Jordan Hicks for sure is your number one linebacker, but what about the rest? I mean, is it going to be Brian Asamoah? Is it going to be somebody else? That's a veteran that ends up taking that Eric Kendrick's role? So there's a

lot up in the air here. And then what does it all look like with Brian Flores? So this kind of, I think, turned the dial up on my intrigue to actually see them on the field, but I wouldn't say that it changed my opinion on what they should be. Let me answer one more question here. And then I've got a bunch of hot routes. Jonathan Harrison is going to join in just a second and we'll do our usual Tuesday, but I wanted to have a little fun OTA special, I guess, end of OTA special from Zimbardo going from Chan and Sullivan to Byron Murphy and Nichols seems like a huge deal. If the outside corners can survive, it was painful watching us get picked apart all the time. You are a hundred percent correct. And just statistically

speaking, they have been the single worst team in the NFL over the last two years at the nickel position, the worst. They have given up more yards from their two starting nickel corners than any other team in the NFL. I did that research last night when I was writing about Byron Murphy, and I think he can be a huge difference maker for this defense. It's just, you said it, the outside corners and will they hold up? So that is the portion of analyzing OTAs with the end of otas and now it is time to transition over into hot routes and uh bring jonathan harrison into the mix uh what's up jonathan how are you i'm good how are you oh i'm doing good oh i gotta put the headphones on hold on okay i'm doing i'm doing good but hey

uh anybody watching continue to add your questions and we're happy to answer them i've just got a couple of hot routes questions as always for jonathan and we're gonna have some fun but uh if you have more vikings and ota questions do not stop dropping them in the comments and responding to our hot routes uh so let me uh let me jump right into it because it actually is vikings related jonathan i want you because this has been quite a discussion about the running backs and just kind of where things stand and when everyone's kind of talking like oh that's right that's right thanks for the reminder oh i didn't forget hold on i'm just not me for hot routes without the shade go thank you

reminding me. All right, now we got the Oakleys on. Now I can really bring the heat. So, all right, here's the question, though. The backfield, even when Wes Phillips was asked about this today, he was kind of going like, yeah, you know, Ty Chandler, he's going to have to be ready. Wink.

I can't wink now that I got the sunglass. I'm winking. And so here's what I want from you. Let's say Dalvin Cook gets released within the next two weeks or traded. I want a running back pie chart for attempts for the season between Madison, Chandler, Wong Wu, and McBride from you. And I'm going to have a Gatorade because I went jogging right before I went on and I've talked for 45 minutes.

I was going to say, you look a little red in the face a little bit. You look like you've been outside. I still am, yeah. Well, it's like 85 degrees out there. It's too hot. There's like smoke in the air, and that's not great for my lungs. So that couldn't have been good. So I'm going to have some Gatorade.

All right, you have some Gatorade. I think obviously there's going to be a split. They look at this backfield, they've, they put enough draft capital into it. Like you said, on the podcast couple of past couple of weeks, they put so much draft capital and they have to start using these guys. Dalvin cook, obviously is going to have to get moved on. Hence why he's just, this whole situation is just hanging over the club for as long as it has. Uh, I think Madison still gets a majority of the carries. Obviously that's why they brought him back. That's why they paid him what they did. I think he'll end up with 60% of the carries and Ty Chandler, who Kevin O'Connell keeps raving about in radio

interviews. And anytime he gets asked about him, he goes on for five minutes at a time about Ty Chandler. I think Ty Chandler gets probably 30% of the carries with Kenny Awongwu, who we didn't see a whole lot of last season. We thought we would, which was surprising considering his versatility and what he showed in his rookie season. You thought, oh, this could be a guy who could fit in this Kevin O'Connell offense really well, really didn't show up at all. So there's 10% left after Madison gets 60 and Chandler gets 30. I think Wong Wu and McBride split that final 10% each. They split it halfway, so 5% and 5%. Unless Wong Wu just doesn't make it because this new kickoff rule

kind of takes away the biggest threat that he is. And if the Vikings just want to go with three guys back there, then McBride gets all 10% of those carries. But right now I see it as 60 60 30 5 and 5 between those guys I think your pie chart is extremely reasonable uh it's not a hot take I think it's like exactly what I would predict is something about like 60% or maybe even a little more for Alexander Madison. But I also think that there is a universe where that quickly changes and Ty Chandler ends up being the guy. And that's partly the way that they've talked about him.

It's partly what we saw from him last year in training camp and in the preseason, he was a monster in preseason. And look, I know it's only a handful of carries. It's against guys who are now selling insurance. I get it. But there are things you can figure out. There's burst. There's vision. I think he's an intelligent guy.

Like he doesn't talk a lot publicly. We haven't seen a ton of quotes from him. And I don't think he talked today or anything. But I get the feeling that he's a bright guy and that he might be able to pick up on this pretty quickly. But especially when you see that quickness and that vision, you know, the quick cuts and stuff like that, like he had during a preseason and training camp last year. And it wasn't just preseason, like he was some rando that wasn't, you know, it doesn't matter or whatever, and just has a good preseason as we have seen people get excited about in the past uh but

it was also during training camp practices where he was getting some reps uh you know standing in for delvin cook with the first team and that's what really matters is what happens on the practice field so they showed their excitement for him last year and i think that maybe if you were to have you know quesadilla fomenta say look uh don't tell anybody this but we'd love ty chandler to actually win that job because or maybe kevin o'connell's the one who determines that because he's just faster he's just got more big playability than alexander madison i think madison is a latavius Murray. He is a solid, highly intelligent player who you love as a leader, but there might be more Jarek McKinnon vibes with Ty Chandler and Kenny Wong. Well, I think, you know, he's probably a guy that wants to strive to be

McKinnon esque where he can be a playmaker, get some screens, get some handoffs. You know, I mean, we always talk about these ender rounds that they almost never use, but you could see somebody like him being in on a role like that. He's just got to prove it. He's just got to prove that he can get those assignments right. And until he does that, until we see that in training camp, and we have seen him get opportunities in OTAs, but until we see him in training camp do it, we can't really make a bet that he's going to be anything more than a bit player. I think this is a two horse race where Madison starts with a big lead, but it could be could be 50 50.

It could be 60 40 Ty Chandler very, very fast if he shows up right away. I think the season will start with Madison as the guy. But I think that Ty Chandler hype might be actually pretty real there. So I think, you know, that this is how many, like, when was the last time that we had intrigue in the backfield for the Minnesota Vikings? When is the last time? Was it 2017 when Cook is a rookie, but he took over so fast. It wasn wasn't even it wasn't even a race yeah i think so because he went right from ap almost essentially into dalvin cook so yeah it was probably 2017 is in that first year and just like okay what's he going to be able to do yeah they spent a high draft pick

on him but what's he going to be be able to do and then he showed right away what he's able to do so that that intrigue went out the window really quickly. But heading into training camp, it's been probably since then as to what the Vikings are going to do in that backfield. And I think it's an exciting position to be in because this team has been blessed with great running backs for the past almost two decades at this point. I know. They have a really, really incredible like Mount Rushmore.

This is Mount Rushmore season. So once you get into June, all the football podcasts that don't have key players maybe getting traded, those podcasts are doing like, what's our Mount Rushmore of strong safeties? But the Vikings Mount Rushmore of running backs, I think is about the easiest you can come up with. I mean, I don't even think there's much debate. It's Adrian Peterson, Chuck Foreman, Robert Smith and Delvin cook.

Right. I mean, there isn't really much other discussion there. Terry Allen was pretty good for them, but for a short period of time, there's a couple of guys in the eighties. And when you go back, but Chuck Foreman and Adrian Peterson are like the God level. And then Robert Smith was really, really good. And Delvin cook was really, really good, but that is a heck of a Mount Rushmore.

This wasn't a hot route question that I thought of, but compare that. Like, is there another team that has a running back backfield? I know this is off the top. So if anybody in the comments has a thought on this, that challenges those four. I think the Vikings have the best receiver, Mount Rushmore, in the entire NFL. Maybe Pittsburgh or maybe San Francisco could challenge it.

But when it comes to running backs, because they've got Goat and Adrian Peterson and then three other players that are pro bowl caliber um yeah i mean you could throw in darren nelson but i don't think he's i don't think he's as good as like dalvin cook or robert smith i have a friend who argues that herschel walker belongs in the mount rushmore of vikings running backs and i think that's trolling uh but we did have an argument about it um what seattle seattle has a pretty good one with like ricky waters and marshawn lynch john l williams they've got then there's uh kurt warner the original kurt warner

c-u-r-t was a pretty good running back i don't know i mean the vikings skilled position players how crazy is it that they've never had the great quarterbacks but they've always had the skill position players so i don't know, think about it. Anybody else can nominate other teams for that, but I think that's pretty good. So the next thing I had was Kyle Shanahan says that he hasn't had any discussions with Trey Lance about trading him. I would like you, Jonathan, to look into your crystal ball and tell me who's playing quarterback for the 49ers in week 12 and where Trey Lance is playing by the end of 2024. All right. I have two different ones. I came up with this one. Do you

want sober version of this, or do you want Jonathan at a wedding halfway through the night version of this one? Both. Give me the first and then the second. Yeah. This is hot routes, man. You know what? You deserve a pair of Oakleys, but I'm not going to give you mine because mine are too cool. But we need you to put on some sunglasses to be like, okay, now it's hot routes, Jonathan. It goes from reasonable Jonathan to hot routes, Jonathan, when the sunglasses come on. But give me both. All right. So we'll start off with sober one. We'll, we'll go with bi-week or bi-week 12. It's Brock Purdy. I think he's just going to take over that role and continue being kind of that safe guy who doesn't do too many outlandish things and continues to run Kyle Shanahan's offense. Like we saw at the end of last season and just be that

safe guy. And by the end of 2024, Trey Lance is finally in Minnesota because they're going to stick with the really cheap option in Brock Purdy. There's no reason to move off of him if he's going to be as cheap as he is and they can continue to build the roster around him for the next couple of seasons before he gets expensive. Absolutely stick with the guy who's leading you to the playoffs and getting you to at least the NFC championship game. If not further, the outlandish one, the Jonathan three, three sheets to the wind. It is everything goes horribly wrong in Minnesota to start the season. I know Vikings fans don't want to hear that.

People's heads are falling off. It's just, it's miserable in Minnesota. San Francisco is getting by with the mix of Brock Purdy and Trey Lance. It's not really doing anything for them in the NFC West. And finally, that phone call comes, and finally the sides agree. Kirk Cousins ends up in San Francisco. Trey Lance comes to Minnesota. We get to see half a season of Trey Lance in Minnesota, and the San Francisco fans finally get to see Kirk Cousins

in that red and maroon or whatever it is, the maroon and gold out there. And that's where, whatever their colors are. I don't know at this point. I think it's just red and gold, red and gold. Yeah. That's not a maroon. No. Yeah. Like I said, this is, this is mid wedding Jonathan. So the color. I forgot. I forgot. You can't even figure out what color the teams are. You sounded like the tenant,

the Tennessee Titans fans in that video who are trying to figure out what color the teams are you sounded like the um tenant the tennessee titans fans in that video who are trying to figure out who the team logos were like what color are the 49ers every time the colts come up it's the cowboys for some reason uh that's right um that if people haven't seen that video it's really funny it's the best one yeah uh okay i like it i like it i i was gonna say that i thought that where you were going with the hot take and you went like full hot take with that was going to be sam darnold is their quarterback by week 12 that is an option is totally possible that sam darnold finds it in san francisco and wins the job over the other two guys the trey lance thing just continues to hover i even saw was it connor or

who had the uh predictions where he made all the predictions and he was predicting that the vikings would end up with someone like trey lance next year because they won't be able to afford kirk extension in jefferson which is not actually true that in the short term they could afford a jefferson and kirk extension they've actually had more expensive players than just Kirk during the time he's been here. I don't know if people know if he knows that, but, um, but cousins is not on an extension though, right now, which means that it is very possible that something like that could happen. And if Trey Lance is not the starter, I guess the question would be, do you really want to do that if he can't

win this job? Because I think if you're San Francisco, you're saying, look, it's Brock. He's our guy. Brock's our guy. He won all those games last year, but you have to be in the back of your head going, come on, Trey, come on, beat it. We spent so many draft picks on you unless they're out on him. But if they're out on him, do you want him? Like, I don't know. That seems risky to take that chance because quarterbacks who have gone to another team after being a high draft pick in recent memory have not done very well. You know, Sam Darnold, you know, there's been a handful of these guys who are first round picks that go to another. I mean, Rick Meyer came to mind for me, but that was a long time ago. But it just seems like if there are bust draft picks who end up somewhere

else, Josh Rose was another one. There's always this great argument, like, well, you see, he's very talented still. And if they just this and this and this, but if that team is bailing after they spent as much as they did to get him, that means really bad things. I don't know. I mean, but maybe you could argue that the Vikings would be in that position because in your scenario, the Vikings get off to a really bad start, which is possible when you look at their first five, six weeks. And if they got off to that bad start, maybe something like that could happen. But it's almost like for you to want Trey Lance, then he has to be good in training camp and preseason. But if he's good in training camp, he probably wins the 49ers job and then he stays their

quarterback. So I don't know. Yeah, this is this is good from Zimbardo. Lance will be the next 99 Jeff George. Love that. That'd be great. Jeff George was phenomenal. he was absolutely outstanding uh but with this is one thing they have to consider if they're looking at other quarterbacks and i think connor or dropped zach wilson no no no trade the argument for trey lance is that we just haven't seen trey lance he's had bad luck he's gotten hurt a couple times that happens and if he's healthy that he could be still very very good and i'm sure for the 49ers they're frustrated because they want to try to win the super bowl but that's the argument for lance with zach wilson like no no no no we're not doing that but zach wilson does have jeff george vibes of just being a total jerk like that's that's completely like this just self-centered jerk who can't play um of course

this one has to come up next year aaron rogers it has to come up from david as one does so but it's almost like with um i don't really see the incentive for san francisco to trade trey lance just yet but when kyle shanahan's like no i haven't said a thing to him about a trade you're like have you though have you let's maybe you you know i don't know but that's it's kind of it's kind of paradoxical in my mind with you would want if you want to trade for him you want to see him play well in training camp because last year he didn't really play well in the training camp practices i saw and if he still looks like that that's not a guy you really want to be trading for. Next question for you, Ben Ellefson, Vikings tight end retired. And Kevin O'Connell announced today that he is going to take another role

with the team, but he said they don't really know what role. They just want Ben Ellefson in the building. Is he going to coach? We're not sure. Is he going to scout? We're not sure. Is he going to work on the player team side? They have, you know, other people that work behind the scenes with the players and things like that. Is he going to do something like that? He doesn't know. So my question for you is if you were Ben Ellefson and the Vikings loved you so

much, they said, Jonathan, we just want you you to be here you can pick any job you want outside of head coach offensive coordinator like you can't be that because we have those and we pay those guys a lot of money but every other job you could do you can coach you can be in the scout you know you can be in the front office you can go work on the uh you know community engagement side you can be the ball boy what would you want to do what role would you want if the Vikings told you you could have any role with them like they it seems have told Ben Ellison can I just stick with the job that I actually have in real life one of them and go to the radio broadcast I like being part of the radio broadcast you've been a part of team radio broadcast before

we've talked about this in a play-by-play role i do the hosting for minnesota united i love being at the games and obviously there's pressure there's a different kind of pressure putting on a good broadcast but you don't have the pressure of like 60 000 fans wanting you to succeed on the field and beat beat the other team you have the pressure putting on a good broadcast i love that and i love being in the when it's happening, when exciting things are happening and conveying that to an audience. I'm going to, I know it's not really hot takey because it's something that I get to do and something that you've done as well. So, but I'm going to go with that being on being kind of on the broadcast team and being able to be in the stadium when, when the awesome stuff is happening

and being able to convey that to the outside world. Yeah, there's nothing quite like that. I'm sure I've told the story on the show before about my experience as a play-by-play broadcaster, but you guys are not going to be shocked by this, but I was a little too critical for the team. Now look, here's the thing though. The thing about that is, even though they were upset with how much I was criticizing the team, the team had gone from working with the Cardinals to the Marlins, and the Marlins were at the lowest of the low point. They didn't have no Luis Arias hitting 400. They were garbage, right?

And so their prospects were even more garbage. And we had lost like 20 of 23 games by the time that they were saying I was being too critical. And well, you know, I can have a touch of sarcasm from time to time. No, never. Or be a little snarky occasionally. So that did happen. And I realized that I'm better suited for this role where I can just speak honestly to all you people. And I don't

have to try to be like, no, it's not that bad. But I also was over the top too. I probably, I probably was too like that can't happen. You know what I mean? Just one time they batted out of order. What are you saying about that? Yeah. Yes. my team batted out of order what do you say about that i'll tell you what i said on the broadcast that night which was um my little league team didn't even bat out of order you can see where they were coming from you had the oakleys on before you had the oakleys that's right that's right i yeah how do you not say that though oh yeah absolutely that's absurd uh so anyway well for if I was taking a job with the team, I think number one would do all the time here. The draft, you know, is very random. And I think I would get frustrated by being a scout where it's so hard to figure it out. And you also feel like if you just, I don't know that

they feel this way because they take their profession very seriously. And the NFL, I want to say with their scouts is very good at chunking players to where they should be. Otherwise you would see all sorts of stars in the late rounds, but we don't. You know, we, we see the stars get taken early for the most part, which means scouts are doing their job correctly. So they're good at what they do, but the randomness of the draft, loving a player, writing them up, thinking this is the next great guy. They draft your guy and then he stinks. And you're like, what did I do wrong? And it might be nothing that you did wrong. The guy couldn't learn a, a hot route or route or something you know i don't know that would

frustrate me but pro personnel is where you could apply like the data and you can look for players that might be misused or like take byron murphy jr i think this is one of their best pickups in years i don't know how it'll work out but he was a guy that was on a bad defense in Arizona, probably asked to do a little too much, moved outside, moved inside, kind of a chaotic role with a bad situation, a bad team, bad organization. And so if you're watching on, you know, as a player personnel or pro personnel guy, you might be looking to spot somebody who can come in and help your team that signs for not that much money. I think that would be actually quite exciting because you can use their NFL data as well. College data is a little bit tricky to figure out. So I would, I would like

that a lot, probably watching a lot of tape and stuff like that on, on NFL players, watching games, going to NFL games and figuring out like, who going to be that. The position coaches is a tough gig. I mean, it's not easy. The position coach gig. I don't know if I would love that unless I was as someone else suggested the assistant long snapper coach, which of course is there is the right position, but there's, there's a lot of cool jobs being in the NFL, but I think you nailed it. Let me answer a couple of real quick questions here from the comments.

Why is Lewis seen buried? if he's a full go? Well, I would say that's probably because Cam Bynum and Josh Metellus are getting it faster than he's getting it. That's at least what I would think. It's not they haven't said that, but that's the obvious would be that. I mean, that's that's what happened last year is that Cam Bynum and Josh Metellus, they got it better with their defensive assignments than Louis seen did. And that's the biggest thing you're concerned about. He runs a four, three. So, I mean, he's going to be faster and he's certainly bigger, but if he doesn't get it, then you can't really play him from David. Why was Ingram the worst rated guard in the NFL last year?

Well, because he got beat all the time. I mean, it's really that's that's all like PFF grades are very simple. They're they're not something like wild formula that was invented by some mathematical genius. All it is is their graders are watching for positive and negative plays and marking them down to come up with a grade, which is what teams also do. So think about that. Here's the crazy line with offensive line is if you say give up three pressures a game or four pressures a game, you are, let's say the number is four.

You're horrible if you give up four pressures a game. If you give up three, you're not bad. If you give up two, you are, let's say, let's say the number is four and you're horrible. If you give up four pressures a game, if you give up three, you're not bad. If you give up two, you're amazing. That's the line. That's the, that's the line. That's how thin it is. So if you, and Wes Phillips said this today, if you have a false step as an offensive lineman, which him saying false step is kind of scary because those are hard to fix and um that can really really hurt you but uh you know with with ingram that's the line and so if you can improve by one pressure a game i mean you can go from being the worst to being in the middle and if you can improve by two pressures a game it's just can he do that? I don't think that it's really

yet time to determine that just like with Louis scene, it's not yet time. It was definitely concerning for last year and he probably shouldn't have been starting the way that it was going. And they're talking up his experience, but it's like, but the experience was really bad. So I don't know how, how much that really is. Let's see. So Zimbardo says a bunch of amateur writers like to say that Ingram started to get better in the second half. Not statistically. No, did not statistically get better in the second half. And I think that was part of the concern is that his numbers were exactly the same in the second half. So I think what you're referring to is probably fan people who kind of want to be optimistic about

it but the thing is that you just don't really know with an offensive lineman we saw that from Bradbury where every year we thought Bradbury like is he going to take a next step we don't know and then he did all of a sudden we didn't predict it because he he had a bad camp or at least the start of camp was not going well and then all of a sudden he was better so um yeah it's it's a it's a very tough one it's a very tough one uh let's see real quick before i get to a couple more questions how does andrew booth jr look healthy which is nice otherwise hard to say i mean they're in shorts he's he's got great movement skills i'm i haven't been tracking how much he's been thrown at or anything like that but uh healthy is a really big thing.

And if he stays healthy through this part, then it's on to the next part and he's got a chance. Let's see. Only smart move Kweisi has made was trading for TJ Hawkinson. I don't agree with that. I think that he made a lot of very good moves this offseason, but they were not moves to win this year. They were moves to rebuild the secondary. They were moves to rebuild the secondary.

They were moves to move on from guys who are going to cost you a ton on the cap to create more cap health in the future. He hasn't extended Kirk cousins yet, which I think is smart. The overall T I think the Byron Murphy signing is good. I think the Marcus Davenport signing is good. So I would not say that. I think that the overall direction has actually been good so far.

It's just that we don't have the whole picture. We only have like three quarters of the picture. Okay, so back to our Hot Routes questions, Jonathan. Dan Campbell said today that Jared Goff is a better quarterback now than when he was with the Rams. Do you agree? And who is your favorite quarterback that didn't become good until their second or third team oh i don't know that i it's iffy whether he's actually better or not i i struggle with whether

i agree that he's certainly played better better in the limited uh window that we've seen him uh mainly in the second half of last season but i still think he he got a team to the super bowl that's hard to top uh no matter what your competition in the rest of the last season, but I still think he got a team to the Super Bowl. That's hard to top. No matter what your competition in the rest of the NFC was at the time, he still got a team to the Super Bowl. So until he does that with the Lions, he's not better than he was with the Rams. I know that's kind of a base way of looking at it, but it's what these teams strive for every year is to win the Super Bowl,

and he came close with the Rams and played well doing it, earned himself a big contract with the Rams by playing well for them. So until he does that in the playoff, gets the Lions to the playoffs, wins their division, gets to the playoffs, and gets to the Super Bowl, right now he has played better for the Rams than he has for the Lions, but it's not that far off. They played so well at the end of last season that you can certainly believe that he's on the way to being better than he was with the Rams. All signs are pointing that he's got everything around him to do that. So it's close, but right now he's still played better for the Rams than he has the Lions.

As for guys that I liked or quarterbacks that didn't do good until their second team, Case Keenum was up there. I mean, you saw what he did in the first part of his career until he got to the Vikings. He had a couple, he had stints with Houston, St. Louis, Los Angeles, and then came to Minnesota and had his incredible 11-3 season in 2017. So that will always be up there because that season was entirely memorable for Vikings fans for all the right reasons. But then after that it dropped off. But before that he was kind of just a no one and just kind of a journeyman quarterback and then popped up at his one pop-up season.

Another one that pops up on our list all the time is Jake Plummer, because you look at his first, what, six seasons in Arizona and it was bad. He had double digit interceptions every season he was there. He had four to six seasons with 20 plus interceptions, which obviously back then is a little bit more common, but still that's an incredible high number for interceptions for a quarterback who's starting week in and week out. And his win loss total was abysmal in Arizona, throwing way more interceptions than touchdowns. Then he gets to Denver, has four seasons there, throws, I think 74 touchdowns and only 40-something interceptions.

Had one season where he had 20 interceptions. He kind of dipped back into Arizona, Jake Plummer, but he had a much better second half of his career in Denver than he did in Arizona. So he's always up there. But obviously the GOATs of this conversation, Drew Brees and Steve Young, you're not going to top the second stints or the second teams that teams that those guys had their careers with those second teams so that's my list totally agree great list uh you took of course the two that I was going to bring up um especially

Drew Brees but how about like uh you know Vinny Testaverde who was just absolutely atrocious with Tampa Bay and it took him a while to become good he went to Cleveland and was decent and had a run with the Jets where he was pretty good but he was a top draft pick who didn't become good until much later after he threw like 40 interceptions in a season one time um so that yeah I mean you could argue Kerry Collins uh was not that good with Carolina and then Kerry Collins became good with the New york giants took them to the super bowl obviously brett farve with the atlanta falcons still blows my mind the atlanta falcons traded him away um how about someone like matt hasselbeck who was a packer mark brunel who was a packer at first um kurt warner was i, also a Packer quarterback. They had that run of crazy backups. And Rich Gannon is a great nomination.

He actually wasn't really that good with Kansas City. His second team, it took until the Raiders until he became very good. Ryan Tannehill does not get enough credit for how good he was for a couple years after being pretty, pretty mediocre when it came to playing in Miami. So there are quite a few quarterbacks that became better. I would say Alex Smith became better in Kansas City than he was in San Francisco, even though he got them to an NFC championship game

and they were close. But he had a good career in Kansas City. So there's a number of those guys for sure. What was the first part of the question? I forgot what it was. Do you believe that Jared Goff is better than he is with the others hmm yeah uh i think it's possible well so i'm thinking about this from the perspective of not like what he accomplished because he had a really good career as a los

angeles rams quarterback where they went to the Superbowl. He led a number one, a number two offense. And we saw him smoke the Vikings in ways I've not seen anybody ever do to Mike Zimmer. So I always had a tremendous amount of respect for him. However, when you look at like what he's asked to do, it might be more complicated now than it was in los angeles because there was always that

thing of well mcveigh's in his ear which by the way every coordinator is that is not something that mcveigh invented that's just something that got out there that mcveigh was doing but it's not like he was the first guy to ever do it kevin o'connell brought this up last year telling kirk cousins hey if you get this look throw to this, because that's what he was seeing in the defense. It happens all the time. Gus Farratt used to get in the headset with Dante Culpepper. I remember Gus was on our show back in the day and told us about that. So that's not anything new, but I do think that maybe there is more that is being asked of him here than with the Rams. And he really succeeded last year.

He had a great season to be a top five offense. And I have a lot of respect for him. I mean, that's three times that he's been in the top five as an offense. Not easy to do. And I think that this year has the potential to be maybe his best career year where he's asked to do more than just kind of have everything kind of protected for him. And they were throwing a lot of screens and stuff in Los Angeles, a lot of play actions, a lot of bootlegs. So maybe it's more complex. Chad Pennington's a good answer that he was good

with the Jets, but they moved on for him for Favre. And then he did really well with Miami. I was just watching the other day. I don't know if you've ever seen these. They used to have this thing. Maybe they still have it called road to the Superbowl, where it was this special feature NFL films would do the week before the Superbowl, where they would recap the whole season. So I found 06 and 08 on YouTube folks. These are great. These are so good. There's there, it is like the most extreme. Remember that guy like that you've ever seen? Like, remember that guy? Remember that game? Like championship weekend 08 was Arizona Philly, which is insane.

Arizona blows a huge lead and then comes back to win at the end. And then it's Ravens Steelers at the peak of Raven Steelers. You got Flacco, Ray Lewis, Paul Amalu, Big Ben's actually able to move. I mean, it was crazy. So go find those if you like NFL nostalgia. My last question, though, is actually that's funny because 06, 08, like these are the years that Madden was last good, and they are going to reveal the Madden cover person of which, again,

to all the youths who play Madden. Good for you. I hope you enjoy it. It's just not what it used to be. I don't play the real Madden anymore. Well, I just, yeah. I mean, that's just, it's so limited in what it lets you do from what it used to be. The training camp stuff, everything else.

I just ordered Madden 05. So I've been, I pulled out the old PS2, been playing MVP 05, ordered Madden 05, a little summer project there. What's the question? So let's see. Oh, who was your favorite? I know, but I didn't have it up on my screen. Who is your favorite Madden cover player?

What was your favorite Madden cover? Besides Dante Culpepper, for obvious Vikings fans reasons, Favorite Madden cover player. What was your favorite Madden cover? Besides Dante Culpepper for obvious Vikings fans reasons. I'm going to go with the guy who followed him up. Marshall Falk in 03. I love that Madden. It's not anywhere near one of the great Maddens, which I think you got an 05.

That's that's the goat. That's where it reached its peak. And it hasn't been the same since. I loved Marshall Falk back in the day. Just that Rams team in that early 2000s stretch where they were the greatest show on turf was so much fun to watch. It's one of the first teams besides the 98 Vikings that I really fell in love with. So Marshall Falk is up there because of that Madden. I don't remember the amount of hours that I dumped into that game, but it was a hefty amount. And then obviously two years later, they came out with the best one,

which was that 0-5-1, Ray Lewis on the cover of that. Although 0-4 with Mike Vick, obviously bad things associated with that year and what happened to Michael Vick, but that game was also incredible, though 0-5 was kind of the icing on top of the cake that 04 was i think that the 03 marshall falk is when the game took this huge leap to the ps2 and wow or was that the ps3 uh yeah ps2 and wow it became just an unbelievable game and And I always enjoyed it. I still play Madden 98 and stuff sometimes. Or Madden 64, I think it was, for 64, the original one in 98 season. So I still play those.

I still go back to Madden 96 with the Super Nintendo. I have all these things, and I pull them out from time to time. But I think the Marshall Falk one was one where you not only played it, but you also kept the, whatever you call it the case like out on display because just piece of art but my friend is just so iconic for what goes in that game where i mean michael michael vick in that game is the most unstoppable madden player of all freaking time so So yeah, this, I mean, that one's really cool, but they, they had great art back in the day, but you didn't bring up Peyton

Hillis 2012 when he got voted as the, yeah, right. I mean, that was that one. What a wild time. Peyton Hillis has one season as like a fullback slash running back. And then all of a sudden he just becomes the madden cover guy and it's the most random madden cover guy that has ever been so uh but there's a lot of great ones from the past now i think isn't there a thing where they give every team their own little madden cover guy and well they have like three different covers they have like the base cover the digital edition and then like the champions edition so just so so EA can get more money out of you. But yeah, they have like several different cover athletes, I guess now.

Meh. Just like all things Madden, meh. But I'm still running. I still, so I had downloaded the, I don't know, 2021 version of Madden and just wanted to see if I could still run my Madden play, which is you go shotgun and you got an underneath route from the running back. And then everybody else is a go,

but you adjust the routes. So like, Oh, they're playing off coverage. Like, let me run an out route. It still works every time. I mean,

they've never figured out how to stop this. I can run the same play. It's the year is 2021 at the time. And I can still run the same madden play i've been running since like oh five so that's that's how it goes that's how it goes now you're supposed to i saw that you're supposed to strap something to your face now if you want to play games and now i'm out i'm out i'm done so I'm just going to continue to play games. That football game, whatever that, that the VR one does look kind of interesting,

but yeah, I don't need to spend the hundreds of dollars to get a VR headset. That's capable of playing it. I'm just not strapping something to my head unless these are, they sick Oakley's if they're, if they're like sick Oakley's then maybe anyway, the show is brought to you by Oakley. Well,

this was fun. It's a good time. I'm glad everybody could join and talk a little bit about OTAs. We have two mini camp practices, unless they cancel one, which sometimes happens. Left to go, and then it is officially summertime, but it will not be a break for us. We will continue to do hot routes. We'll have a lot of fun. I want to do an old games week where people nominate old games for me to watch on YouTube. And then I watch them and talk about them because, you know, it's summertime and we can have some fun with this team. So some things to still be figured out. We'll be here for emergency pods if they do something with Delvin Cook and so

forth. So keep your eye out, subscribe, do all those things. Join the newsletter. I mean, it sends you every article every morning, Friday mailbag, everything else that's purpleinsider.com. Uh, and buy my book. I don't know, like what else can I promote here? So thanks. Purple stories. We'll have a new one coming out soon. Yeah, that's right. A crazy bud grant story. So keep an eye on the channel for that. So thanks everybody for watching. Appreciate you, Jonathan, for popping on and we will talk to everybody again soon football you you