Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - FANTASY SHOW: Should the Vikings be afraid of Quinshon Judkins?

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Mike Schopp joins the show for this week's Purple Insider Fantasy Show to discuss Quinshon Judkins taking on the Vikings' leaky run defense. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome into another episode of the Purple Insider Fantasy Show with Mike Schoep of ADP Chasing and WGR 550 in Buffalo. The show, as always, presented by our friends at Fanduel. And what a week it is for those guys over at Fanduel, trying to figure out where to put the over under for Vikings and Browns, the lowest over under of the year at 35 and a half. It was 36 and a half. And then they saw Dylan Gabriel was starting and they were like,

what do we do? Can we go lower? I would love to have heard that conversation like 35. How low can we go for this game? How low can you go? I think the total this game is what the bills were favored by last week. Yeah. Well, like 30 points against the Saints,

something like that, ish. Yeah. You know, good for the Saints. They tried real hard. They packed up all their stuff and flew it to Buffalo and at least got their money's worth in an actual football game that we have a word for that up here it's a made up word it's called congarts when people misspell there's two words people misspell all the time on twitter congrats they make it congarts and then whoa but they spell it like noah yeah yeah so

w o a h which is like woa but uh yeah congarts is our ironic sardonic uh way of expressing our appreciation for you know good job good effort congrats to spencer rattler for that fairly watchable for those who attended. Let's let's let's talk about this first. And then we got some stuff to get into. And we've been both, I think, fascinated by the Ravens. So I want to talk about that. And some interesting, maybe emerging players around the league and the

Travis Hunter stuff as well as has caught my attention. But let's begin with this. So I was looking at as we always do each week, the, the props here for Dylan, Gabriel and Carson Wentz. Gabriel in terms of passing yards is the lowest one that I can remember 181.5 yards in Roger Goodell's National Football League in the year 2025. I was told it was a passing league, Mike. And that does not look that way for this. I mean, look, I know that people probably aren't running to pick up Dylan Gabriel on their fantasy teams. Maybe if your quarterback is hurt and you need something or someone. But I'm at least.

somewhat intrigued to see a new quarterback because Joe Flacko was very likely to just be a nightmare to watch play football in this game. What's 180? 1.80.1 and a half. Which is only slightly less than the literal MVP of 2024 has averaged in his last three games. Wow. Alan, it's not a passing league anymore, is it?

No. I mean, the bills, you didn't ask me about the bills, but they're sort of like the classic example of they're so leaning into the heavy and Alan is a part of that his running ability and how dangerous he is and how capable he is you know short yard anything goal line is 69 career rushing touchdowns all of it like sort of feeds into that and they've done it very smartly I think we'll see how it turns out but I am going to tell you that I am open to the possibility that this works for the Browns. I don't think Brian Flores in London is exactly anybody's idea of a perfect way to try this,

like how to start it. But they say it can't get worse when moves like this happen. I almost think that that's true here, that it can't get worse than what the Browns were. So, I mean, Gabriel, it was a shocking draft pick going on day two. And, you know, the odds of his having a successful, however you define it, I mean, money earned, games won, whatever it is, however you define it, the odds of his having a successful NFL career are not great, especially once he was drafted by Cleveland. But I kind of like the idea of, like, it's all rookies now. It's Gabriel, it's Judkins, it's Harold Fanon, it's Isaiah Bond.

I mean, who needs Jerry Judy and David Injoku anymore? They lost Tillman. I don't know. I don't love this week. And I'm not sitting here telling you that Gabriel is going to smash that over. But I do kind of think maybe they're a little bit live in a suddenly soft AFC. Cincinnati is terrible. Houston can't score.

Maybe Baltimore is bad? Like, is there room for a Browns with a great defense? which could make for an absolutely off the rails game on Sunday morning. Like just if neither team can keep their quarterback upright, who knows what that ends up looking like. Yeah, it was my question yesterday to fans of like, how many points do they need to win this game? And the mostly answers were around between 14 and 17,

which just feels like, again, what, what year is it? What are we talking about? Because the Vikings can't block this Cleveland defense, which we'll get into. I am only somewhat intrigued by, Dylan Gabriel because of how well this man through the football in college. And I know it's not the NFL. I agree with you.

Once you get past the first round, probably even the first half of the first round, your odds of being a successful quarterback absolutely plummet. And yet, this guy has some of those markers of he would be a dude that would be overlooked. So Brock Purdy was an example of a guy who played a gazillion snaps through 100,000 passes. But he was short and he wasn't the greatest athlete. in the world and so the NFL was like oh that's really nice but you know who cares and gabriel was kind of the same way where he's got i think a good enough NFL arm and he's very good in terms of anticipation throwing and the processing at least he wasn't college if he was six foot two

he would have been a first round pick i think he was a better prospect from pure quarterback playing than somebody like jackson dart or tyler shook uh but he's short and those guys unless they're absolute freaks usually don't get drafted that high and even Murray as an absolute freak has not been the most successful quarterback. So I get it, but I'm at least intrigued. And the reason is because I think they do have people who can get the ball in their hands and do something. That would be the one that I'm most interested is Harold Fanon, 27 and a half is his fan dual prop on this. I'm way over that for Harold Fanon.

He caught a million passes in college and he started off being a fairly reasonable weapon. And I don't think it's a deadlock guarantee that the Vikings defense just demolishes this kid, especially because the Vikings have not been good at stopping the run. And Kevin Stefansky can play off that a little bit. It's an interesting bet. He had a really exciting, not just encouraging, but exciting week one, Fanon. And then it really has dissipated since then.

But when a new quarterback steps in, you never know what that's going to mean. And you and I for a couple of weeks running have talked about veteran quarterbacks and tight ends and like what, how the slow kind of immobile veteran quarterback is going to dump the ball to the tight end or the running back all the time. Gabriel has the short problem and he's also not like a runner like Murray who can sort of keep it alive by his athletic traits. So in terms of a NFL investment or even a fantasy investment, it's bleak with Gabriel. But Fanon, I mean, this is my family name. I've always felt sort of connected with Harold Fanon. My mother's maiden name, my grandfather. In fact, in this draft, we had Harold Fanon and we had Luther Burden,

and my grandfather's name is Luther Fanon. So I felt like I was really close, really intimately, intimately connected with, you know, a couple of prospects. Anyway, yeah, maybe you get the quarterback change. You might get somebody unexpected to pop. Isaiah Bond. I'm not sure if he's unexpected after what happened last week, but still, new quarterback, we'll see. And Judkins is rolling in that backfield. So the Browns have some interesting pieces if the quarterback is at all competent. You could say that he's got a fan in you because of that. Yeah? Yes. I think you could say that.

It would have been better to say that than intimately, apparently. Yeah, well, I mean, that's not that hard of word. It's not that hard of word. between you and him. So let's talk about the backfields, though, here because Quinn John Judkins has been off to a pretty solid start to his career. His over under on Fandul is 71.5 yards. Jordan Mason is 67 and a half. The thing about Jordan Mason, let's start with him first, is he's RB1.

He's going to get the ball a ton. But my concern here is the Vikings offensive line is just a catastrophe. right now and in Cincinnati it was the closest that they had gotten or against Cincinnati the closest that they had gotten to a full offensive line and it was like look at this look at the you know this rookie left guard and the way that he's blocking and darisaw's back and okay this is how it was supposed to be and then a week later uh there's a jZ line where he said uh it was all good just a week ago like it was that line was all good just a week ago and then now it is uh even the possibility that there

their backup center won't play. So they could be on their third center and an undrafted left guard, possibly. We don't know yet. But, I mean, this is, this is a mess. I don't love this for Jordan Mason against a Cleveland Brown defense that is really, really good. No, you might have to steal a touchdown to make it a fantasy, a viable fantasy day. What's the record for most different offensive linemen started in a season abroad? Broad. Yeah. Well, they're going to set that. That's for sure.

They're about to break that record. I mean, yeah, like, the volume is, you know, the corner of the realm in fantasy football for running backs. And really, although talk to me about Xavier Scott, Mason should have that kind of a role here again. And you would think anything if they sort of lob one deep to Addison who gets. it's interfered with at the three, that it's Jordan Mason time. You might need that to call it a win this week in fantasy in terms of Mason. The offensive line thing, though, every year it goes underrated, underappreciated, in general, in fantasy. And, you know, it is hard to know what you're looking at.

I mean, injuries happen and that can just wreck the whole thing. Here in Buffalo, they have not only have they not had an injury on their offensive line, really. Spencer Brown missed the last game, so that did change this. But even their second string has been healthy. They actually went into this season with the same first string and second string offensive line. Like that was just totally not a thing that they ever needed in the draft. That's super, that's unusual.

You never know how that's going to go. Seattle was a team that I discounted. And I think a lot of people did because, well, their line is supposed to be bad. And if it's bad, what does Sam Darnold look like? behind a broken offensive line, you know, it can look bad. Instead, they've been okay, and he's flourished so far for the Seahawks. So it means a lot, and it's like everything with football, it's not easy to predict, but if we knew what the line was going to be, we would know a lot more than we do about about fantasy.

I think, you know, Mason's role is good, the coaching, the rest of it, the matchup is tough. I mean, you said it, 36 and a half. The implied total for the Vikings is 19 points. but I think he's still a must start, bottom line. Yeah, that's probably true. And I still, it's amazing. They got down to the goal line and they still had to throw it in. They just do not know how to do that.

I don't know because the thing about Jordan Mason is that when he's at his absolute best, they're running the outside zone, old Mike Shanahan stuff. And they did that against Cincinnati. They did it twice as much as they did any gap running. And he was phenomenal. I wrote an article about it. It was fun to watch. He just has that six cents for that system,

kind of like Shanahan would find Mike Anderson or whatever random running back was great at that Ruben drones back in the day. And it's something there with like a certain type of player can see that system. You cannot run that with a bunch of backups who are not athletic. Like you need a first round guy playing left guard and a first round, like that was, that's a thing, I think. And I just don't know if they're going to be able to move the ball on the ground very much here if they can't do what he does best. Now, with Quinn John Judkins, he, I think, is an

advantageous position in this game, except for the fact that their offensive line is a horror show, just like the Vikings is. But the Vikings last year or now last week showed that if you can run against them, you could cause a lot of problems. And I loved what Pittsburgh did when I watched it back. I was amazed at their game plan, because you've talked about this, and I kind of love this for the whole league. They put six linemen out there and they just said you have a linebacker. One linebacker is 225 pounds. The other linebacker is five foot seven. Harrison Smith hasn't played that much. You put Josh Mattelis in the box. He's 210 pounds. How about these fat people? What are you going to do about it? And the answer was nothing. And I wonder if Cleveland has six

available offensive linemen if they'll do that, but they've got the two tight ends. I would not be surprised, and I've seen Stafansky do that here against teams, he will just keep running. And if they do that, it could be a potentially huge day for Quinchon Judkins. Yes. I mean, absolutely. Plus, in Pittsburgh's case, one of these people was the amazing Darnell Washington. Yes. You know, can even catch the ball.

When he was coming out of Georgia, he was like my draft crush. Like, couldn't the bills do this? I didn't never wrong just early because, like, they were never going to draft Darnell. Washington. But then this year they drafted a guy named Jackson Hawes in the fifth round out of Georgia Tackwood played at Yale. And he's just crushing this. This is the thing now. What we're seeing so far this year and the bills have a place in how this has evolved and the Steelers, it's Arthur Smith. It can't be that surprising are going to lean into the physical side. And, you know, a lot of these teams, even with Aaron Rogers at his advanced age, like they just don't have the quarterback

to make it work. And the Vikings, I tell a story. about when I was a teenager, excuse me, and my father bought a sailboat, a hobie cat. And one of the fun things you can do on a hobie cat is get up on the trapeze and sort of ride the wind. And I live on the river. So we would have days where we would get up in the trapeas. The kids would take turns. You know, you feel like you're flying. It's amazing. First day I went out in the boat or one of the first days. I had a friend over and my father offered to take us both out. And, you know, who wants to go in the trapeze? And he's like, Michael, you should let your friend go first, of course.

Like, yeah, you're right. But can I go on the other side? And so he's like, sure. So I didn't really understand the concept. And then we go out and here comes the wind. And my buddy is up here and I'm just bouncing along the river. And my dad sort of mocking me because I didn't understand what the whole point was that one side would be up in the air. And the other side is just sort of like bouncing along the ground.

Uh, so anyway, appreciate you taking my call. And the connection. Uh, I forget. Something about six offensive linemen got us there. It's a good story. Yeah, no, I mean, the league is always, you know, evolving and changing. And the, the bills and the Steelers and I think other teams, it wasn't like the bills really led the way in terms of six offensive linemen usage. They were excellent at it.

And what they did with Hawes is make that sixth lineman eligible to catch the ball. And that's Washington with Pittsburgh, too. Minnesota was me on the boat bouncing along and their offensive line is, you know, kind of falling apart. And, you know, teams like the Steelers are up here waving down at them. Well, it is questionable for the Vikings, just like it was questionable for you to take the other side. It was it was questionable, though, a little bit for the Vikings to bring in defense. tackles who had been not just bad against the run, absolutely horrific, and give them huge amounts of money. Now, I thought it was a great idea so long as you had other guys who

could stop the run, like Jalen Redmond. They moved on from Harrison Phillips, which was a big surprise to all of us, but I think they liked their younger players there, but we can't just pin it all on the defensive tackles. They're missing Cashman. They're missing Van Ginkle. And the whole idea is that they can rally and make tackles. And sure, if you want to run 50 times, to get to the end zone, like, okay, then try it. And Pittsburgh said, fine, we will because we're up by a bunch of points. And if you get up, then I think that's where the problems lie is that if you're trying to play from behind and then you're putting in Javon Hardgrave, like you're probably going to lose.

And that's just the bet that they decided to make. But there's, there's stats over the last three years that just have been showing that, like, sack rates are up, quarterback, how far you're able to throw down the field is down. Like, I mean, running and playing tough is kind of in. The sack rate is the highest, I think, over the last couple years since, like, 2006. We've gone back at time and it's kind of cool to see in some ways, the innovation. But I think the Vikings are a little bit on the wrong side of it with the way that their defensive line is built right now. Yes.

And I think it's a little bit sneaky because scoring isn't down. Right. Which I think is largely because of the kickoff rule changes. And kickers make it from 100 yards away. and kickers themselves. And the story, was it K-Laylor? Like the K-balls, the teams don't even have to, like, it's open season on inflating,

microwaving these balls and different things. Like, you know, that's happening too. But yards per play on the ground is down. Yards per play through the air is down. So it's kind of weird times. But that's the name of the game in pro football. And maybe in all of sports or even in life, You have to be sort of try to be ahead of the curve.

And credit to those teams that are. I mean, sometimes luck trips you up and maybe with the injuries, that's kind of Minnesota's thing. I mean, Carson Wentz behind a broken offensive line is really a recipe for disaster. Still, fantasy show, Jefferson, that worked out. And Jefferson returned to the player that we've always talked about him as since the Vikings had other changes at quarterback and he got there anyway. And so, I mean, last week, he certainly did that. Well, and yeah, last week was a reminder that some of Jefferson's,

and I'm not accusing him of stat stuffing because you catch the balls that come your way. Some of Jefferson's early success fantasy wise, yardage wise, was in 2020 and 2021 and 22. They had some of the worst defenses in the entire NFL and they were playing these shootout games. and that was reminiscent of those last week. You're down 24 to 6. Jefferson gets huge gains. So does Jordan Addison. That comes to this game.

I don't know what to expect because I don't think it's going to be exactly like that. Jefferson on Fandul is over under 70.5. Addison is 42.5. And T.J. Hawkinson, I'm finished with. I'm finished with trying to make that bet. Well, look, I mean, at some point with him going back to last year and this year, It's just not what it was in 2003. I think that his

connection with Kirk Cousins was really, really great. Like those two just clicked and they understood each other. He has not had that with these other quarterbacks. And I thought Wentz would just, because he played with Goddard and I think Ertz and he would just pump them the football.

Just hasn't happened. And last week he gets a catchable ball. It's not perfect. He drops it. It just has not felt like he is really as much a part of the game plan over these last two years as he was before, nor is he playing at the same level. So, I mean, I'm not saying that he can't be that guy, but each week, I feel like we've come in here and said, oh, yeah, Hawkinson over, Hawkinson over.

It's just not as consistent as it was before. I came into the season this way with him. And, you know, whether he was healthy, the quarterback change, who knew that the Vikings would be in this state a month ago? Like, it was, was Wentz even on the team yet, like just sort of, it was, this is hard to have predicted but I was not optimistic on Hawkinson just because of like the wear and tear and the uncertainty of the team and the quarterback and really we are still there even though it's not the quarterback we thought we did say did I not say last week when we talked

like you got you got to Addison's over under and like oh he could do that on one play I didn't expect him to crush it on one play on a play where he'd be run down by a linebacker but it did happen fast linebacker fast linebacker legit i would still be there on addison this week and maybe he gets more volume too yeah i think so and a downfield receiver like him you're right he needs like two catches and just to be clear i'm not done with t j hawkinson as being a good player i just think the circumstances with the quarterback uncertainty have not lent themselves the way that i thought they would to leaning on the tight end that's the point i think if they had a 36 year old star quarterback he would still be getting a ton of catches.

They just don't at this moment. So let me get one opinion from you and then I want to move on to some other things that have percolated in the National Football League. But I decided after the Vikings lost to the Steelers that no matter what J.J. McCarthy should be the starting quarterback against Philadelphia. And I do not care about the upcoming schedule being hard after that.

That's life. That's football. Find me an easy time in the NFL. This is not Michigan. You don't get to play Bowling Green anytime soon. So it is what it is. That is what I landed on with J.J. McCarthy and the circumstances. How do you feel about that? I mean, I get it.

Bowling Green, Harold Fanon, by the way. I get it. That's why I was in my brain. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, it depends a little bit. This is nothing you don't know on just sort of what you think the locker room's response would be. How unfit do the players at large think McCarthy is to start the next game?

And if it's anything close to unfit, then you're going to look like you're throwing your season away, which, you know, teams do because it's about developing the quarterback. On some level, it always had to be about that this year with McCarthy. And it so happens that you have the lions and maybe also now the Packers in your division, and there's only so much of a ceiling when you have this kind of situation. So, yeah, you get to a point where you're like, why am I even doing this with Wentz? And, you know, maybe we get there already. This is a tough test.

Obviously, it's a tough test for a quarterback starting his first NFL game against Flores and what the Vikings can be defensively. But it's also maybe the best defense in the NFL on the other side. and a quarterback who just is not able to, you know, make the big throws or hold up under pressure, we'll see what happens. I think if they win, it's going to be almost impossible to replace him for Philadelphia. I mean, he doesn't really matter that he played for the Eagles, but I think it's tough if you win to make that move.

Do you think they will? What do you think the odds are that you'll be right, that they'll make the change? So this has been, this has been tricky because trying to read through the line, of Kevin O'Connell. He's pretty crafty with his words and language and handling of the media, but there hasn't been any defiance about this situation. Usually there is. Like, usually there would be, you media people, how dare you say that JJ might not be QB1. I'll fight you in an alley. That's how it would normally go. And it's been more like, yeah, you know, JJ's coming along with his ankle injury. And here's what we're trying to do with Wentz. And it's been like,

really is that, is that how we're feeling here? The way I look at it is the ceiling of Carson Wentz is you go nine and eight. You probably get eliminated in the first round. And then what did you really accomplish this year? The ceiling of J.J. McCarthy, even though it looked bad in the first two weeks, is still that it clicks. And he is really good. And maybe it's a Bo Nick's second half of the season and or maybe it's a good matchup at the right time like a Jaden Daniels last year.

Like this is the 10th overall draft pick. We're not talking about somebody who's sorry, Dylan Gabriel, but Dylan Gabriel. It's not like a third rounder that you're just hoping spark something. This is supposed to be your franchise quarterback. So I assume that that ceiling should still be in there. The ceiling on Carson Wentz is that he has an okay season. And maybe the ownership isn't that mad because you snuck into the playoffs or something. I think that's not really where this was supposed to go.

Yeah. It sounds like maybe how we were talking last year before the season started before McCarthy got hurt. Right. And like what's my ceiling with? Donald and they won 14 games. I mean, they did go right out. So you could look at that either way, I guess. Like you were justified in thinking that it was capped or you were wrong in thinking that

because they had such a great season. So yeah, I mean, it's funny how the literal draft pick, the number, 10 overall, matters in this. Because I think perfect world, once you get past the draft, it shouldn't mean anything. But then that's just not the real world. I mean, that's all the time in sports. The guys who, the earlier you were drafted, the more chances you get. And the more a team is willing to, you know, change plans around you. So you're right.

I mean, if McCarthy doesn't get time this year, doesn't make it, then it goes on the bust list. I mean, it's top 10 pick, which even that was controversial in itself, like just picking him so early. But you did it. And so I think you kind of have to stay there. You have to stay in that lane. And if that means, I mean, think about it, what this sounds like. If that means taking out Carson Wentz for him, then I guess you do it. Right, right.

And that's the point. Like Carson Wentz, this isn't a Darnold versus McCarthy situation where Darnold was 27 and number three overall pick and a freaky talent where you can have that conversation. Like this guy, that might be who he really is. And it kind of looks that way with the Seattle Seahawks. that was a real discussion. Carson Wentz is 33. This isn't going anywhere after this. He's doing a phenomenal job as a backup quarterback. You win half your games. If you go two out of three, wow, great job. Backup quarterback. But that's all that this was ever supposed to be. And if they had crushed the Steelers, crush the Browns, then I would have said, well, they got to stick with this because it's really working. And maybe it's another one of those scenarios. But that's just not what happened. And especially with the backup linemen, he's not going to be able to, elevate this team going forward.

The draft status usually just speaks to kind of raw talent that he was evaluated as coming out in the draft. Sometimes raw talent never comes to fruition. Sometimes it does when you're 28, like Sam Darnold, like I don't know. I was looking into this, Mike. I mean, it's amazing the number of quarterbacks who were not until it was 26, 27, 28 historically. Steve Young, I know Warren Moon got screwed, but like Warren Moon, there's Alex

Smith even, wasn't even 27 or 28 until he won 11 or 12 games with the San Francisco 49, maybe even 13. But it took him years. And so sometimes you just have to kind of wait and see with a guy and play him as much as you can. But that's not how they built the team. That's not how they set this up. So anyway, let's talk about some other interesting things. Would you rather talk about first the head scratching concern players fantasy wise? or the guys that have sort of surprised you and you're intrigued by, which one would you rather talk about? Well, you know, to the first point, so far this season,

a big story has been what's gone wrong with so many wide receivers that we just really loved. I mean, a few first round picks. Nico Collins is on a Houston team that seems really bad offensively. And kind of everything else is set up right for him, but his quarterback just can't or doesn't get him the ball. When he does, it's awesome. Like, think of Garrett Wilson with the Jets. Garrett Wilson, this guy has an amazing career so far

where you give him like the worst quarterbacks that there are. And he is still giving you 1,000-yard seasons and incredible plays. That game on Monday night where he's like, please, I'm not even trying to be a jerk here. Can you just please, we can win? Throw the ball to me. And then they do. and it's this insane helmet catch. But anyway, so that's going well enough.

But Collins, of course, quintessentially, Brian Thomas Jr., and what isn't happening in Jacksonville, you had players there that we were just really high on, and that hasn't always gone great. Puka Nakua has gone great. Drake London has gone well enough. So, you know, there's both. But Brian Thomas is one of the stories of the season so far

and what he hasn't done. And I think also talking about just in the category of disappointments, we might have been right this year on the older running backs. Yep. Who are a year older, which makes it logically a little bit likelier that we'd be right. But Barclay's yards per carry are way down and they're just, who knows, if that insane workload last year didn't ding him for his productivity this year. Derek Henry had a big game against the bills.

then he fumbled, then he's been terrible. Like there's nothing going on there. Of course, other examples, Connor got hurt. Mixon hasn't played. Camara was a name for this. And I think they might be phasing him out a little bit. So it didn't,

so far at least, like it looks like it didn't hold up that you could just sort of run it back with the old running backs and do as well because that's not been true. Yeah. Last year was definitely the year of the old running back. And Philadelphia also had one of the old running. the best offensive lines, I think, ever assembled. And then they lost Mackay Beckton, maybe the health isn't there.

They're not passing the ball very well at all. I actually don't even blame A.J. Brown for being as angry as he was, even though they won the game. Now, you shouldn't go to the social media and all that. You shouldn't skip the post game. And he admitted to that. But after watching that game, it's like, what is happening with this past game for Philadelphia? Well, yeah, I'm sorry. I was going to say the thing about him is he is getting the target share.

Like he is getting his share or more of the volume, but they don't throw the ball at all. Not only just whether it's well, but like the second half, they didn't throw a pass and they won. And just what's that? I mean, right. Like they're playing like J.J. McCarthy's Michigan team right now, which, you know, I guess if you can win on blocking field goals and punts, then that's fine. But I think you're going to have to throw the ball a little more. They are, I believe, number one or number two and three. outs this year, which is very bizarre for a team that's 4 and O.

But I look at them as a pretty rickety four and O team. I wonder about a guy who had quite a journey on Thursday night football last week, which was Marvin Harrison Jr. When Marvin Harrison Jr. comes out, my take on that was if his name was Bob Johnson, that he would have been a pretty good draft pick. I thought a very productive in college, like fun wide receiver, but had some Laquan Treadwell he like takes, and I'm not calling him Laquan Treadwell. It's just when you're bigger than everyone and you bully everybody, but you don't really

separate, I kind of go, I'm questioning that because this is, it's like a route running and yards after catch league. And that really, I didn't think he was a master of that. I thought he was mostly contested catch. So I thought his name played into the hype with him coming out. And it sort of played out that way. But I also wonder about getting on the same page with Kyler Murray. There was a play in that game where Murray, like, starts to look like he's going to scramble and then throws to Harrison, but Harrison kind of stops and then he doesn't quite get it.

And it's like, I think we just got to get to the point where Kyler Murray's not a good quarterback. And I don't know how any wide receiver with him is going to be great unless it's a bunch of short little outroutes like it was with DeAndre Hopkins when he was there. Hopkins is the one guy. Yeah. Further, has anybody who's ever played for the Arizona Cardinals looked like they were having a good time? I mean, Eric Swan. Eric Swan had a good time.

Eric Swan, so it has happened. Carson Palmer. Anias Williams? The vibes are so bleak. Like that game, Murray is, at least he's somebody at that position. Like there's, there's an allure. As a fantasy analyst, I mean, he's somebody. that you always kind of want

because he can run and create. But man, he and Harrison looked like they've never met. It looks like Rogers and his rookie guys over the years where they just like there's no, when Harrison scored his touchdown, the one thing I'm watching for is to see him interact with Murray

and like two or three other teammates come over to congratulate him. He's not smiling. He doesn't seem to have enjoyed this touchdown. Yeah. And then they cut away before, if it ever happened, And there was an interaction between him and Murray.

Like, who knows if there ever was? I'm not even sure they've ever talked. So that's not what you want. I mean, for the price in the draft, maybe you're right about like sort of the name appeal with this guy. Good face, good name goes a long way in sports. I mean, we know that. But he's a good player.

Is he going to pay off last year he was going one, two turn in drafts? This year later, third round pick mostly, I think this year. Um, yeah, it doesn't look like it's going great. Even McBride, who is super good and even got in the end zone a couple times somehow this year, his career, like going back to high school, like he couldn't do that. But I don't know, like just nobody seems to like themselves there. That's, I would say from a very great distance. Yeah, well, and I think that that starts with the quarterback and it's a little bit chicken

and egg because I think Murray is a very frustrating player to try to play with. because as a wide receiver, what you love to do is get into that break, turn around and what football is right there. No question that Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver of all time. How many receptions for Jerry Rice did he come out of his break and the ball hit him right between the numbers? That's pretty useful. When your quarterback goes one, two, scramble, it's a lot harder to be that guy. And it's a lot harder to just feel like you could do your job. Then you got a, I'm a backyard football player. And when Russell Wilson was at his best, they had a couple guys who seemed to love that. Like, oh, I'll just, you know, Tyler Lockett and

Doug Baldwin, I'll just run around like crazy and play with Russ. But I don't see that in Arizona. I don't, I also think that if you're going to be that, you probably have to be a run heavy, throw it 20 times a game, hit on some explosives and play that way, which that's why they didn't let Russ cook. They were probably right, that it was better to play that way. So I think that it kind of comes back to him. And then Murray just does not have that, he doesn't have that put him in a movie type of Friday Night Lights quarterback personality, which I think no one would care about if he was better.

But when he's not, then they care about it a lot. That just seems to be how it goes. Yeah, maybe. Like he's sort of locked in there for a while. It's like Lawrence and Jacksonville and some of these guys. We've had it with Tua where like the contract exists and they're not going to get away from that. So you've got to make it work. To say the least, perhaps, on Harrison, it's obvious that the offense doesn't really revolve around him.

You know, you have some wide receiver ones where like, you know, Jefferson, right? The number one priority today in this game on offense is to get him the ball. And they might have sort of had a setback early in the season. They go to the game against Pittsburgh and boom. like this this is what we're doing here and you have that with some of the top guys you don't have that with Harrison like if he if he gets there it's almost like it's by accident which is not great if you're a you know a Harrison manager definitely not um I want to go to uh an interesting development I think with the 2024 draft class which is that Caleb Williams has been putting

up some numbers and also Drake May has been putting up some numbers uh I guess that maybe the question would be which one of those guys would you be more high on going forward. Just give you, you know this probably already, that Bills and Patriots over under on Fandool, the Bills are eight and a half point favorites against the New England Patriots, which is, I don't know if I would quite go there. It is a home game for Buffalo under the lights. You know, it's going to be pretty special atmosphere against the Patriots. But suddenly Drake May, I was texting with my friend Chad Graff, who covers them.

And I just said to him, this is got. to be great for you. Maybe I was jealous because I'm watching Carson Wentz lose to the Steelers and like, this was supposed to be us watching this young quarterback. But I am so intrigued. His talent when he was doing the joint practices against the Vikings, his arm talent, his size, all of those things. They're kind of Josh Allen like. And I mean, that what a matchup of talented quarterbacks. He seems to be on the rise despite the fact that they have kind of a crappy team around him. I'll be in there Sunday night. the third row is that a good seat for a football game i don't know i'll be i'll be with my son

in the third row for the game the white out uh bill's patriots game on sunday um it's the answer is may for me you you get the rushing the big separator in quarterback fantasy production is that and like even fields what happened monday night i mean they just really were not they didn't look good but he gave you a 30 point fantasy game because he's so dynamic as a runner may isn't fields, but there's enough. And he's been, he's been scoring two on the ground. So they're making it work. I have thought the Patriots were probably going to be pretty good. The losses aren't great. They lose to the Raiders and the Steelers at home. The Steelers game is a turnover fest. They're not really, they're kind of a fluke game away from being three and one. And now this game,

if they were to win, would be massive. Like it would just change the whole conversation about the bills. The bills could go undefeated. But like, New England has given them tough games. Fantasy-wise, it would have to be May, but I'm encouraged about Williams because after the opener, it felt like here comes the Tyler Dunn article and like the bottom is going to fall out on this guy. And it hasn't.

And, you know, he got to play Dallas, which always helps. But there has been some promising production there. O'Donzee looks great and they're getting by. So I like Williams, but I really like May. I am so impressed, even against the Vikings, when Williams didn't get it done with Ben Johnson's offensive scheme. This man knows how to get people open. And it's been so impressive. There was a stat. I think Seth Walder

had it of the separation scores, which is as much of a team stat as it is a wide receiver stat, your scheme and how you create separation for your receivers. And I think DJ Moore and Roma Dunzee were both in the top five, which I think tells you everything about that stat, that it's Ben Johnson and getting people open, and all of a sudden, and I know it was against the Raiders, but I saw him drop back, hit the back foot and throw to some of those guys.

And I was like, if he does that, it's going to be a problem. So I'm intrigued about where that's going. And even Caleb Williams, I think he could be a little more definitive with some of his running and just take back, drop back and go, I can just run here. I don't have to like run 50 yards backward first.

If he figures that out, maybe he'll pick up some more rushing yards. So give me, give me one or two other guys. that you've really liked this year that have maybe even surprised you or sort of jumped to the front of the conversation in a good way.

Because we're always sort of saying, what's wrong with this guy? Why isn't this guy producing? How about, how about like, who are you impressed by? Well, I did like both of these players that I'm thinking of. And maybe I'll think of someone different,

but number one name for me is Tucker Kraft with Green Bay. Like, you had these tight ends go in the middle of drafts. I happen to draft a lot of Bowers and McBride. And I would regret it immediately because I knew that has to be a pretty big win to pay off when you're not drafting JSN instead or somebody like that. Like it has to really hit. And it hasn't quite for either guy, McBride better than Bowers so far. I'm wondering if they're going to even like consider Bowers as an elite player this year with the Raiders. They might just want them to block and catch

garbage time dump off passes. I'm not bad. bitter. Kraft looks like he's just like Kittle. I mean, people have called him sort of the poor man's kiddle, but man, he could have gotten in the end zone last week, too, got stopped at the one against Dallas. He's giving you huge production and everything about the structure, I think, of that offense. No, Jaden Reed. Golden hasn't popped yet. I mean, Jacobs is certainly paying off too, but Kraft is the man on that team. So I think he's got to count for this, Not a huge shock, but a huge win if you drafted him. And then, you know, Ibuka with Tampa is somebody else, like very not exciting.

To your Harrison stuff, you know, same school. Like not the most exciting prospect, but was very well respected. Then he shows up in a wide receiver room with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin in it. And Evans is like, yeah, this guy's ready. And so Godwin doesn't start the season. Abuka smashes. Godwin comes back. Evans leaves, Ibuka smashes, they can use them in the slot. They're using them out wide.

It's all happening for him. So for a rookie, not unprecedented that a rookie, like, think of the Jefferson year, ends up posting a huge year. Abuka's doing it like day one. So he's some, he's very exciting. These are both, Oduenze and other, like these are all guys that if you drafted them, and I'm lucky that I did draft a lot of them because my early picks aren't working out so well, at least you have this. Like that's been great, those guys. I'll throw out one that I'm always rooting for wide receivers who get pegged as divas to stop being that and find their way and just have it work out and, you know, whatever. George Pickens in Dallas is just working.

It's just working. And having a quarterback like Dak Prescott, who I've always thought was a really, really good quarterback. But if you're really good and you're flawed, then the world says you're garbage. And that drives me crazy about the NFL. It's like, man, if I, if I didn't know what everybody else's opinions were, I'd probably be like, yeah, man, I really like Dak or Jared Gough gets this too, even though the Lions have the best team quarterback rating in the NFL since 2022, but still, it's like, golf's not good enough. And it's like, I don't know, man. I'm watching. Let's see you play outside.

Right. Yeah, I don't know. Well, let's watch, let's watch Dylan Gabriel on Sunday and see how we feel about some of these quarterbacks that we say aren't good. But the way that he played in that game with 10 pressures from Michael Parsons, he got crushed. But George Pickens, man, he can go up and get it like very few players in the NFL. And it's cool to see a guy who could track the football that well. So I am so interested to see where that goes for him. And I did want to circle back on your Garrett Wilson point.

When he played against the Vikings, Mike White was the quarterback, who I think, I don't even know if he started a game since then. Garrett Wilson blew my mind. I was like, this guy is so good. He can make any catch. He's open all the time. And they just have had the worst quarterback situation because they are the New York Jets. And Vinnie Testaverty's now walking through the door.

This is natural law, apparently, that the Jets cannot have a good quarterback. It is. Our fantasy show is, as always presented by Fandul. And I'll end with this, Mike. The Vikings are three. and a half point favorites, Sunday morning in London, would you take them to win and cover? No. Oh, I mean, I just am sort of feeling the Browns. I'm open to Gabriel being okay.

And their defense, defense travels, right? In sports, like, it's got to have to cross the pond. But Minnesota can cause some of the same problems, I think, but that Steeler game was not as close as the score in the end. And I think the Browns with Judkins can run it as well. Gainwell was really impressive in that game, by the way. I mean, I have a lot of Jalen Warren. And I'm not sure how that comes back. You know, if they're not going to split. They have to get Gainwell touches, I think, based on how that went.

He was awesome. But Judkins has been awesome, too. And we'll see if like turnovers decide it. The Vikings have the better kicker, you would think, in this game. The Browns lost it. The Browns didn't have to lose it. lose the Bengal game. They were, I mean, they should have won that game. And then I don't know, I do have a bet on Cleveland to make the playoffs that I just made at six to one, because I don't

think there are seven good AFC teams. Three coach of the years for Kevin Stefansky incoming. If they find a way to make the playoffs. Damn right. Wow. I think you got to be right about that. And so I don't, I don't love the Browns with the points, but I'm, I'm not in the mood to bet the Vikings right now. Three nothing. Very possible. I've seen it happen before. could happen again. Okay, Mike, well, we'll see what happens and we will connect again next week for the fantasy show again. Thank you for your time, as always. Thank you, Matt.