Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - FANTASY SHOW: Why are so many QBs struggling this year?

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Mike Schopp joins for this week's Fantasy Show to discuss the NFL's struggling quarterbacks, and what's behind so many having issues. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Fandul, and this is our weekly fantasy show with Mike Shope, WGR 550 and ADP chasing. Mike, you know, I think it was last week that I said, I'm kind of just out on everybody from a fantasy perspective for the Vikings because I just have no idea what anyone's going to do for me. here and poor Aaron Jones has been playing really well and has not really gotten rewarded for it. Jordan Mason scores a touchdown, but he's really been relegated to clearly number two, which I didn't really expect at this point in the season, but Jones has looked very good. There's the highlight, the rest, let's not talk about it. What am I supposed to do here with J.J. McCarthy? I feel like over your career there in Buffalo, you've seen every version of the quarterback thing. You've seen the ones that didn't work out. The ones that sure looked like they might

and then didn't. And then the guy who sure looked like it wasn't going to work out at first. And holy cow, did it ever work out? We're five games in. What am I supposed to do here? I guess that's what comes from being older. But yeah, I have been through it with quarterbacks. I don't know. I mean, if it's really that bad, then they have to cut bait. And I don't don't know if they really want to do that this year, but if it's so bad that you need to make sure your key men outside of the quarterback room know that, you know, you can see the same chessboard as they can and you don't want to lose them. This starts with Jefferson, probably in Minnesota, maybe easily. Then that could happen pretty quick and it's Max Brosmer time, perhaps, if it's

that bad. But you have to be in the market next year. And I think we talked about, how many teams there are in the NFL right now. Every year is different. And this year compared to the last couple is very different because you could have a dozen NFL teams or more right now not knowing what they're going to be next year at that position. And Minnesota is clearly one. The ones that are the most interesting are the teams like the Vikings and Atlanta.

And I would have said Carolina, but then last week happens. And who knows if it doesn't go right back, we've been up and down with Bryce Young. These teams that have invested young or high draft picks on young quarterbacks and they've had mixed results, so many different variables. And here's Kevin O'Connell, who was everybody's favorite. And maybe he was a little bit too pumped up and thought, I can make anything work. And so McCarthy, I know, I mean, that's a question for you, or topic for you, I guess, to

inform me about, but I know in terms of fantasy, the question with McCarthy, who for most of the pre-draft process was not seen as a likely first round pick, was, well, at Michigan, did he not throw the ball because they didn't need him to, or did he not throw the ball because he couldn't do it? And they won anyway, they won a national championship. Then you get, you know, sort of the football narrative stuff where guys are winner and maybe, you know, there's a There's enough talent here to work with. I think it's interesting that he lost his freshman year with the Vikings and still looks like this because,

would you say different? His struggles this year don't really feel like they're connected to having a knee injury last year because I think a lot of the film study and even sort of arm talent could have been enhanced despite being hurt, but it doesn't look good. Yeah, the issue I think is entirely. that he has not taken any steps forward since college from a, like, footwork, anticipation, touch on the football. We are now in month number, I want to say eight of Kevin O'Connell giving us full breakdowns of why there is in touch on the football. And at some point when you're in your sixth, going into your sixth NFL start after OTAs, mini camp, training camp, and the emphasis is the same,

over and over and over about this certain footwork and this certain way of throwing the ball. I mean, O'Connell said it many times to us now about throwing it at 80% velocity and throwing a ball that's easier to catch and run with and leading your receivers and things like that that sound like, I mean, this feels kind of insulting, but it's also what it sounds like as a high school coach. Elementary. Yeah, well, that's what it sounds like is that I feel like I've been given an incredible amount of insight from Kevin O'Connell about how quarterback plays.

works down to the, you know, finest detail. And yet at the same time, you also start to go, we're talking about this right now. And this was stuff that was discussed coming out. And I think that some of it is just the reality that college football doesn't tell us a lot about what someone's going to be in the NFL because the reason Patrick Mahomes is not the first overall draft pick and the reason that Josh Allen is not the first overall draft pick. Instead, they're picked in the same range as J.J. McCarthy. is for the same reason, not that he's quite as athletically gifted as those guys or as big,

but it's the same sort of thing where it was like, well, Mahomes' footwork is a total disaster. It's a complete mess. He's just playing backyard football out there. That's not the NFL. And that's why some draft analysts just didn't like him at all. And hey, here's Josh Allen. Completion percentage wasn't high enough and that kind of stuff. And, you know, you could also say that about Anthony Richardson is totally true.

or you could also say it about Tray Lance. It's totally true. I think that no one really knows when you get into those NFL games what it's actually going to look like and how much progress someone can actually make. And I think the biggest part is when you don't play a lot of football, the game moves really, really, really fast. And it kind of looks like Tray Lance where it was just moving so fast for him. And then he's trying to panic and make up throws and throw it as hard as he can to fit it in windows. and it's not working, and then now we're asking, well, is it just experience that he needs and then it will click? Or is this so far, you know, settled with him that it can't really change or at least it can't change within a year or two? Yeah, I don't know.

No one knows, I guess, how that is going to, you know, play out. Lance, man, I mean, I'm a fantasy player, Lance, Richardson, Justice. and fields. These are like the gems of your super flex drafts, of your rookie drafts. You got to have the quarterback thing right. Oh, they run cheat code. This is what we've got to be doing. And it's one of my biggest misses as a fantasy player as a category ever is they haven't all busted. But those names, like, what are you left with? You just, you have to basically, end up cutting them. And that's what's going to happen in the NFL, too. I mean, Fields at least got the, it's his third team. He got a nice contract from the Jets, but that feels over. I've been

cutting fields in dynasty. So I think it's always evolving and there are so many teams, like I said, that are going to need some sort of an answer next year that life isn't over for players like this necessarily. I mean, Lance, now he's backing up with the charger. and that seems like it's probably over. But, you know, McCarthy and Pennix and these guys, they might even maybe probably get a second chance if they end up moving on from their teams. But it's because so many teams are going to need somebody

and they're going to need a story to tell, you know, like somebody that maybe they can convince their fans has some hope. And, you know, the other thing that's interesting, I know we've talked about this is how every organization has a different calculus for the coaches standing, you know, how important is it for us to win right now? I think O'Connell, from the outside, I would say this, you know, he had some cushion.

He had built up such a great reputation, and he takes Sam Darnold to 14 wins. And he wouldn't think like this. And he'd already drafted McCarthy, by the way, before Darnold happened, but you can kind of get away with more. You can experiment. You can take chances. and a lot of coaches can't do that.

And a lot of even GMs just can't do that. That's the Jets reality. That's I think the Falcons are probably going to get blown up at this point. Nix is lucky because his coach sort of has the clout to show him the way and he invested in him. And the defense is great or else they, I mean, he's bad, I think. So it could be four and eight with a bad defense and we're having the same conversation about him. um it's really a tough puzzle to ever really crack but it's what it's part of what makes it fun is just the unknown the uncertainty about all this um and whether it's real life or its fantasy it's

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Don't miss out on this limited time offer. common goods. We're all out of the ordinary. Well, you know what I think too? This goes for J.J. McCarthy and it also goes for what you just said about Bo Nix. I think that this year has been one of the worst for quarterbacks that I can ever remember. The last time I remember the environment being this difficult for quarterbacks plus throw in injuries to that as well, like Joe Burroughs out for the entire season. So, you know, that changes things. Uh, I think it's been a really, really hard. was like that. And what happened, Blake Bortles and Case Keenom ended playing in championship weekend. That might be our, hey, Daniel Jones versus Mac Jones might be playing

in championship weekend or something, well, not against each other, but, you know, both playing. When I look at, it's really funny to look at this, like PFF grade, Bo Nix is 11th, but, and of course it factors in running. That's a big deal as well. And it factors in that he doesn't take any sacks. But the drop off, I mean, the quarterbacks beyond a handful of guys that are having pretty good seasons is absolutely enormous. And like you said, there's so many teams that their play at the quarterback position is so poor that they're looking for other options. And even teams that their quarterback play has been poor, they can't look at other options. Like Bryce Young was amazing last week. As a season,

me, I mean, how about even Trevor Lawrence? Trevor Lawrence hasn't been good. I don't even see where he ranks on this. He is 20th out of 28 qualifying quarterbacks, 20th. And yet they can't move on from Trevor Lawrence. They have to probably stick with him just because what else are you going to do? I don't know if it's, my theory is that defenses have just come back strong. Like, they have figured out a lot of ways. You watch Mahomes scrambling around looking downfield. It doesn't look the same. Like the answers were always there for him five years ago that are not there for him anymore. because everyone put all of their eggs in the, we're going to learn how to stop Patrick Baham's basket.

And I feel like it's had a ripple effect for a lot of different quarterbacks. So I think that we have to grade a lot of this. And I know McCarthy's numbers are catastrophic, but like a lot of this on a curve with every quarterback of, I mean, if you got Matt Hasselback in Bo Nix, you might be able to make the Super Bowl this year. Yeah. It is really interesting.

Again, like you said, and it's what makes this all very fun is to try to diagnose, it when it's almost impossible to do it. As we record on a Thursday, the Thursday night game is Bill's Texans, and here's Houston without C.J. Stroud, for the most part, the fourth straight game. He gets hurt early against Denver. That's a field goal loss. They've won the two games since the point spread has moved toward the bills, but honestly, I don't really care if it's C.J. Stroud or Davis Mills. I mean, I think it's mostly the same. And a guy like Mills, I mean, I don't really have a take on him, but I just know he was a backup, not a highly coveted prospect, started on a terrible team because somebody had to, and now he's thrown into this.

Tonight's very interesting. I mean, I don't think there's a controversy there, but Stroud has really struggled since his amazing rookie season. The offensive line went south. That's a big one. I wouldn't quite put Justin Herbert on your list there, but you take away two excellent tackles and the line is in shambles and he can't, if that's one of the worst games of the season last week, the Chargers against Jacksonville, they were completely inept.

So it is very fickle. I don't know. I mean, Stroud will be back and I'm not saying, again, like that he should come out, but I don't know how much better he is than their backup. And there have been numerous examples of this. recent seasons in the league where it used to be the running I'm just thinking of this it used to be the running back take how oh well Todd Gurley is the best running back in the NFL he gets hurt they're dead no they're not C.J Anderson comes in and rushes for 180 yards in a playoff game that

was always like the running backs don't matter maybe now whispering quarterbacks don't okay let's not go crazy here but you know making that making that 2017 comparison though. I mean, who won the Super Bowl that year was a backup quarterback. I feel like environments change throughout the league every single year. And there are just different the feelings about like who's going to win because of environment X, Y, and Z. And I think this started really a little bit, maybe 20, 23. It started to get going with the way Brian Flores was playing defensively and then

going into last year where we see the Philadelphia Eagles really win a Super Bowl on a lot of defense and a lot of running, not to take away from Jalen Hertz's phenomenal Super Bowl game where he was great and Saquan Barkley was not. But I mean, a lot of that I got them there and their defense won them that Super Bowl by completely taking out Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. And it feels like it's carried over. Every team went into last year. I remember being at the Combine and listening to different GMs and coaches. And they're all talking about interior pressure and changing up looks defensively and drafting. I mean, Even here's Denver, who's drafting defense, even when, you know, they need their young quarterback to succeed, but they're saying, well, this is, this is kind of what's winning right now.

And I think some of the effect is that quarterbacks, especially if they have guys out, we saw this from the Vikings, are just getting destroyed up front. That's why I think the McCarthy thing was so concerning the last two weeks is that they actually blocked really well. And he wasn't able to complete passes. But I think over the league, the amount of pressure is just immense. on these quarterbacks in maybe ways that it never has been before and the amount of confusion pre-snap. Sure. And I think as a fantasy player,

even the very best skill guys are so dependent on the quarterback, at least being competent. And we're seeing for the first time with Jefferson that he's suffering. That sort of is how I sort of enter the portal on trying to analyze Jefferson, like, is because it's the first time he hasn't, hasn't gotten there, even though there were Nick Mullins and Josh Dobbs games, and it still worked out in Darnold's full season. But now he's not hitting and he's frustrated, and that's a very bad sign for McCarthy.

You can get there through a different doorway. And you've got Atlanta. London is hurt this week, but that looks like a situation that could just go shut it down. you know, with London or Bijon Robinson, Garrett Wilson with the Jets. Even with Fields, Wilson was still giving you pretty good weeks, but now it's over. You're at that point of the season where teams could just like,

all right, it's not worth it anymore with our top guys. You know, Burrow, by the way, is interesting for this too, but it sounds like he'll be back maybe even this week. And I guess that makes sense. But you always have that huge variable. And some guys rise to a level like Jefferson did where, well, it doesn't really matter who the quarterback is. He's still going to get 12 targets a week at least and produce. But that's never really true.

There's always a situation where your guy just can't really get there. And what that does in terms of macro fantasy strategy is it takes you toward running backs who have more control. not that there are that many of these guys, but more control over their results than a wide receiver should because the receiver needs the quarterback to do what he needs to do. We also, all that the point before

about the value of the running quarterbacks, here's Matthew Stafford, who can't move at all. What are we talking about before the season when it comes to Stafford? Is he even going to play? Like he's in that truck or that van where there's mysterious whatever treatment going on and he's not on the field, and it's just sort of like, well, we got to avoid this guy

because he can't move and he's old. And so I'm not going to get any special extra points because of his rushing ability. There's none of it. What happens? He's got Puka. He's got Devante Adams. Running games efficient. Coach is great.

Defense is good to great. And you've got the MVP favorite. So, again, to be redundant, I suppose it is what makes it fun. but it's also sometimes maddening. We could change the name of the show to Can't Predict Ball because it's just, I felt the same way with Stafford. I mean, it looked like, all right, at some point, this guy's body is just going to completely fall apart.

And, you know, maybe that's this year. But yet I, my theory is that he's playing better because he's actually protecting himself, where in the past, a lot of times he had just been a lunatic. It was not afraid of getting hit. And I think he suffered a lot of injuries. To make the point about pressure, just look this up in 2025, and I know this is a little bit of an arbitrary cutoff, but in terms of quarterbacks that are being pressured more than 32% of the time, there are there, I know, but there are 20 of them that are getting pressured more than 32% of the time. When I went back to 2020, there are only 13. So like, there is more pressure on quarterbacks. And I think that creates more.

variance from week to week because sometimes you're amazing under pressure. Sometimes you're not. And I think it also speaks to offensive lines are facing more challenges. Defenses have gotten a lot better at running stunts and blitzes and basically saying that they don't really care about stopping the run, like stop the run on the way to the pass. And we're going to sell out to try to create pressure on the quarterback, which if you're Matthew Stafford and you're 57 years old and you've seen every pressure. and own demand. You have two amazing wide receivers.

You take the snap, oh, here's what you guys are doing. I'll just hit the guy that I'm supposed to hit when you guys run that pressure. If you are even C.J. Stroud, J. and Daniels, like young quarterbacks, I think it causes a lot more problems when it comes to that. And Justin Herbert, without his tackles, he's being pressured 41% of the time, even if he's getting rid of the football. But it creates a week to week, hey, sometimes you beat it and sometimes you don't. wanted to get your opinion on Kansas City. So Kansas City is still because they always will be

favored against the Indianapolis Colts, despite recent results for them. What are we to make of some of the, the strange stats about Kansas City? Like their numbers are better than last year. I think we all know that they got away with a lot of things at the end of last year. But also, it's clear that it's not the same as it has been in years past. Are you on the path of, hey, like, they still deserve to be in that Super Bowl conversation because they'll get it turned around because they're Kansas City. I believe on Fanduel, they have the sixth highest odds to win the Super Bowl still. Or are we there?

Are we there where they are just not who they used to be? I am not there. I'm much more in the camp that they deserve that sort of respect. But there are always two different things, Matt. I mean, it's how you look, and then it's what your record is. And in terms of their record and their place in the standings, they're in trouble. They've lost to Jacksonville. They can't sweep the chargers.

They can only draw even by beating them. I think it's in week 18, having lost the opener to L.A. Houston is live. The Texans, if they were to win tonight, I mean, there's another team in Kansas City's way. they have a very slim chance at the at the afc west that's different this year i do think they're a better team than last year uh but that's 11 and oh in one score games versus oh and five i mean that's kind of we've been down that road so it is disturbing how hard it looks for them to get the ball down the field i watched not all of the denver game but there were three plays in a row

in the first half where Mahomes went deep and guys were open and he missed all three. And that could just be receivers aren't running the route the way he expects it or it could be a miss. We had this last year too. I would not want to play them in big games. I think that they should be favored against Indianapolis. But then they go to Dallas, which could be a shootout. They've got Denver again. They have Houston as well.

Like, they've got a challenging schedule. There are seasons, remember a Niners team from a long time ago where, like, they were the, this is late 80s probably. They were like the best team in the league, but missed the playoffs because that's what happens sometimes. The schedule and a couple of bad luck games, injuries. So I don't think, in terms of betting, I don't think the chiefs are good value at all because they're getting that sort of market respect like always. I did place a bet on them before they came to Buffalo. So this is three weeks ago now, I think, to miss the playoffs at plus 750. And now that number is closer to like plus 200 because of, you know, their record.

So that's live. But if you're asking me, I still think they'll make it. So this is interesting about, you know, the one score game thing, I think we've talked about enough that it drives me a little crazy just for various reasons. Mahomes is not playing anywhere near as well as he was even last year. So by PFF grade last year, he was still in the same ballpark of when he had great years. I think that spoke to just the team around him and how much he was doing with his legs also to make plays and keep them in games. That was an 85.8 grade last year, which is, you know, really good. That's elite.

This year, 72.3. Like, I think that he is playing much worse football. and the interception that he threw against Denver was just a shocking what who it who are you because the the one big thing that he's always done extremely well is not turn the ball over and he's been consistent with that and to have that type of turnover and that type of moment is just really not what we've seen from him so I think there is some element of course always when you win all of your one score games and you have to get fourth and eight pass interference or block a field goal or something those of course. are ridiculous. I think a little too much was made of some of their other wins last year because a lot of teams win that way. But he's not, if he's not playing at a truly elite level with a very average team that cannot run the ball, which I think is where this all comes to, it's the best quarterbacks are, they are building off of the run game and they just don't have one. And I guess I would love to ask the Kansas City Chiefs, what were you seeing there?

Like, what was it that did you get burned on Clyde Edwards Alleyer? And you, You were like, you know what? We are just never going to care about this running back position ever again. Bring Kareem Hunt in for the 15th straight year. Pacheco, when he's healthy, is pretty good. But the way he runs, he's always going to be hurt. And what they drafted the guy in the seventh round or something. Like, this was your solution in a league that was starting to shift on you.

And I think you missed something pretty big there. Well, it makes sense. Maybe this is a little bit Minnesota. It's been Buffalo. there's an arrogance that I think teens show we don't really need to do this. They've won Super Bowls

with these players and this sort of efficiency level running game. The hunt thing is very weird. I mean, it's been how many years ago was it where they just sort of cut him out of nowhere because of the videotape? Like several years ago

and he's still, he's never been efficient since then and they're still, they just trust him so much to not get Mahomes killed and give them, you know, three yards when they need three yards that he just gets, he got, I think literally every rush last week or the week before.

Richard Smith, they've done it with receivers in terms of rice and worthy where they came on later in the year. The current hip phrase seems to be teams are playing with their food. I keep hearing people say that. And maybe the chiefs, you know, they're pushing it, but have been playing with their food a little bit. fantasy-wise, I'm waiting for Breschard Smith. He's one of these guys that, no, it was not a high draft pick, but

looks like he might have more talent in a good enough situation where he's just taken up space on my bench all year, hoping that I can make it to a playoff spot and then I'm going to have to see it first, running out of time. But I think he's somebody like that

where there probably is some juice, but they're just, they're not trusting it yet. And they had their by week, and they always was weighing off the buy and they didn't. And they didn't score against Denver. Mahomes also had that pick six against Jacksonville that went 90 some yards the other way. And that was a close game too. So there's a little bit of bad luck in there.

Yeah. I think even with Kansas City in the run game that it probably does come down to a lot of just trust in knowing the offense. And I'm sure there's a lot of different layers to it that he understands. but I also look at like Rico Dowdell and I know like we could always just circle the guy here's the one guy that worked out but I mean doubtle was pretty good for the Dallas Cowboys and he costs like two million bucks and he's become kind of a star for Carolina I'm sure if Kansas City called with a few more dollars he would have gone to Kansas City instead of Carolina it's it's just odd that they to me wouldn't at least try to get somebody better back there but that also might be you know kind of shuffling or around the deck chairs for a team that can't hit downfield passes. And if you can't hit downfield passes, then you're probably not going to have an explosive offense. That's right.

It's still not over yet, though, like the roster shuffling, even though the trade deadline is passing. Remember when they brought LaShawn McCoy in? Oh, yes. And the Ravens with Delvin Cook, like basically for the playoffs, guys get cut, bad teams. They just don't have any use for players anymore. There could still be a move like that. the chiefs have shown that they would do it

but McCoy also didn't contribute like he was just sort of an idea with the chiefs so there still could be Breece Hall was the one fantasy wise I was really hoping for because that would have saved him and put him in a great spot that would have cost the chiefs enough

where they would have like you know really used him goal line everything that's the one that might have been the one trade that didn't happen in the entire league that I would have liked to see so what do you think of this game? So I mentioned the chiefs are three and a half point favorites on Fanduil. Jonathan Taylor's over under for this is 90.5 yards, which I feel like they are going to

have to ride Jonathan Taylor very hard because we're starting to see. My prediction of Daniel Jones is going to start to regress because his turnover worthy play rate is very high. Started to show up against the Atlanta Falcons. I think the chiefs are better than the Atlanta Falcons. but what do you think about this one in general? I like Kansas City a lot. I would go under on Taylor.

I think it's a really tough matchup for him, and he is their offense. Yeah, pretty much. I think Tyler Warren is interesting as a pivot almost because the Colts are going to need something to happen there. Josh Downs is a nice player, so I look at their props and maybe dabble in a couple of overs in the passing game, but I don't think it'll come under good circumstances.

for Indianapolis. I like Kansas City to figure out how to handle Taylor. Maybe Taylor still gets a touchdown. I mean, he's so good. But I like Kansas City to sort of pick it up now. They've lost the game in Denver. It's a really tough matchup anyway. And I would just much at home, you just don't get many chances to take Kansas City at such a low number at home. So respect Indianapolis, but I'm with the Chiefs here. Indy feels to me. me like a team that once it starts to face tougher part of its schedule, gets a little bit more exposed, but are still good. And you don't have to apologize for winning all those easy games early in the season. But at the same time, I have not seen them play enough really

hard opponents to have a good sense for this. And Kansas City still qualifies. So I feel you on that one. I'll just get it on the record. This is a playoff preview, three versus six, in the first round. The Colts, I think, are tracking to be the three seed. I don't think they can fall as far as four, probably. They could fall apart and do that, but the AFC North teams have lost too many games. So I like the Colts at three with New England, Denver, above them, probably. And KC slides in as a six. So we'll see this game in Indianapolis in January. That's my prediction. I could see it. I want to talk about Detroit. So Detroit also a team that only beats bad teams. It doesn't be a good team. or the Vikings, they are 10.5 point favorites against the New York Giants at home, which feels like when they lose the way that they did, that they usually bounce back, especially if they get to be at home, especially if they get to play a bad team. 10 and a half, though, is I think too much respect for the Detroit Lions. I mean, it's really been for them if they play someone who's not any good, then they crush them. So maybe that that's where it comes from.

but after the way that they played against Philly, the way that they played against the Vikings with the interior rush, they look to me like a good team that does not have enough. And it reminds me of the 2019 Vikings where if they played a bad Detroit team or something, they would run them out of the building and look great. But every time they went up against a tough defensive line, a tough group when it came to creating quarterback pressure, they just fell apart. And I've kind of, I don't know, maybe this is way too. far. I feel like I've just moved them off my list of teams that I think can win the Super Bowl. Interesting. They're also like Kansas City, not in a playoff spot at the moment, the Lions. I know that every one of their remaining games is indoors. And with golf, there's just been this huge split, especially when it gets cold. What a performance,

Sunday night, golf against the Eagles, like just could not function at all. Maybe the LaPorte loss is a little bigger. Oh, yeah. And I might. have expected like there's just one less he's a little bit more than a security blanket but just somebody that is a pretty reliable passing game option now you have jameson williams popping a little bit i don't know i think if you're right this is a game where the giant's talent individual talent on defense really pops and a couple of those guys they have a they have a few really nice players on that side make plays and they get takeaways from golf. Dart is expected back and with his, like the coach gets fired and he's just always getting

hit. He's their big investment. I got to think that the mandate here is to pull that back and try to just function from the pocket. I don't really like anything about the Giants offense at this point, though. I mean, he's promising. but I think they're going to need a couple big plays from their defense to hang here. And I'm not sure I would ever get to a point where I bet the Giants in this game

because it's, I mean, I think Detroit is still really good. They're a team that when, like you said, I think already, when they're good, they're great. And they can win, they've won games like this 50 to 20, you know? Like, that's, I'd be scared to bet against the Lions, even with 10. So to make the playoffs on Fanduil, the Lions are minus 355. Would you go there still with them? No. No, I'd try to find a more, you know, price efficient way to bet them,

whether that's the NFC North, which would include sort of a bet against the bears. I don't hate that idea. They play Chicago later on in the season. Maybe it's week 18. That's not a fantasy week. That might be an outdoor game. But still, like, the Lions have that perfect schedule for fantasy, for golf especially. I don't want to bet anything minus 355, but, yeah, I think they'll probably get there.

Same in both conferences right now with the standings where you have teams with a record like that. They have work to do. And we're not looking at a season right now where there's going to be some like nine and eight fraud getting in. They're going to have to earn it. the Chiefs and the Lions and, you know, San Francisco is sitting there at seven wins right now. And they've had all these injuries and they're not the same. They had an easy schedule and they've done well enough with it, even without their quarterback. I don't know.

Like, what would their odds be? Because they're kind of coming into form and they're in a spot right now and the Lions are not. San Francisco's minus 590 to make the playoffs. And yeah, right. So, but here's what's really funny about that is. that Detroit is favored to win the NFC North with the same exact odds as Green Bay. Chicago, no one is buying Chicago still. They are plus 320.

They should have lost to the Vikings. They should have lost probably five other games this year. They should have lost to the Raiders. They should have lost to Washington. It is a 2022 Vikings type of season for them. But I did want to talk about San Francisco and Carolina. Monday night football here, the George Seaford Bowl. How about, how about, though,

the Carolina Panthers of Carolina. What an interesting season it's been for them that I think going into this, there were a handful of people that said, you know, like the second half of the season and that doesn't always tell us everything, but like they did a lot in the off season. They had a lot of draft picks. And one guy can really change a lot about a franchise. And I think that's Tedroa McMillan for them, that they have an instant superstar in the draft. They also nailed it with some defensive players.

San Francisco's banged up. I just think that this is a really interesting game of two teams that have had up and down types of seasons that are kind of on that cusp of the playoffs. San Francisco is a seven point favorite, which to me is kind of ridiculous for them, considering that Carolina has, you know, beaten the Packers and had some really good wins, but a seven point favorite, I'm very intrigued with both teams and where they can go here. Yeah, it's interesting today. You and I are on different sides of a few of these games because I would be all about the Niners there. Oh. From what I've said already about them,

Carolina, I'm mostly baffled. Like Bryce Young just went for 450 yards against what was the like best passing defense in the NFL or something and he'd never even come close to that before. So out of nowhere, man, this league sometimes. McMillan, I mean, that's a top 10 pick. really good prospect. In fantasy, he's been a little bit of a struggle because there just isn't that much production. And last week, of course, was huge. I'm not sure this is Carolina's first ever night game was maybe Kerry Collins, their quarterback the last time Carolina played in prime time. And they just have not had many of these. Now they have to go to Santa Clara. I'm betting against them. Steve Burlein could be the answer there or possibly Frank Reich,

Jack Trudeau. Cam. Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm just saying silly, old. So am I, yes. Panther. Oh, wow. All right. But even with Newton, how much primetime love did Carolina get?

I mean, a little bit. But I loved Newton as a player. I was probably never that excited to open up the schedule and see that Carolina was playing on Monday night, honestly. No, you're right. They have not gotten a whole lot of love. Probably Lamar Lathan is there the last time that they, Oh, now you're showing on. Yeah, it's true.

Pete Metzillars had a run there. That's that, that's the number. Well, remember, this is pointless, but Bill Polion, I think went there, right? And just brought all of his old guys with him. So they had half of the Buffalo roster to start with that 95 Carolina Panthers team, which, you know, they turned it around pretty quickly and became relevant with Carrie Collins. Anyhow, the over under for this, uh, on Fanduel for Bryce. young is only 202.5 yards, which I would take the over on this, though, because San Francisco's

defense, Robert Sal is really good at his job, but there's only so much you can do when you're missing half of your roster. This feels like, to me, a 35, 31 type of game. Wow. Yeah, I think Carolina's got the, the offensive juice here now. I'll be back here next week and we can revisit because when a guy throws for $4.50 and then next week against somewhat of a suspect defense, his total is 202, I'd be really nervous. But I overthink it. You know, anytime a line shows up, whether it's a prop bet or a spread or anything, like, really? I always default to, okay, I must be wrong. I trust the system more than I trust myself. So I hope you're right.

I mean, we want Carolina, we hear the sort of the context of the whole conversation today is what offenses and quarterbacks can't do anymore. Yeah. So we could use somebody like this. And last year, around this time is when we started to buy that he was maybe going to be somebody like that young. And then this year it hasn't even been good at all until Sunday.

To the point that I thought maybe another one of those teams where the backup is probably better. But then Andy Dalton got the game against Buffalo and that did not look good at all either. So I'll be rooting for Bryce Young except for the fact that we've been, you know, sort of recording here and publicly on different sides of this game. There's, well, it's, we've gotten to the point now of the season where there's either really interesting games like this, Carolina and San Francisco, or just horror shows. Just you couldn't make me watch, you know, well, New England. Raiders. Yeah, New England, I was thinking New England, the Bengals, then I thought, well, that game actually might be, you know, score 100 points between those two teams. But yeah, there's, I mean, even when we were talking about the Giants and Lions, we wouldn't be talking about that. Otherwise, Jaguars, Cardinals, yeah, Falcons and Saints, I'm not interested. I'm just not interested. He's got to make me interested. I'm not interested. The fifth round draft pick, I don't care what his name is. I don't think in those terms. No, I'm describing it squarely as a game like you're talking about that you would never want to watch.

Horrifying, right. And I mean, maybe Tyler Shuck is interesting, but that's going to have to be, no, probably not. I don't know. Anyway, give me, give me one thing that in the fantasy universe people are talking about for the final stretch. Like, who's the most interesting? What's the biggest debate? Kyle Pitts is fine now, so I don't even know what you people talk about all day. needs cousins maybe but that's an interesting question let me just sort of try to talk my way into an answer

I think for this week you can put it on the list of games you would never want to have to look at but Jacksonville Arizona has a wide range of outcomes I think you could have a shootout Jacoby Brissette just literally tied the NFL record for completions in a game without Marvin Harrison at 47 and what's Jacksonville? Jacksonville's defense is pretty good. But I think that could be a shootout. It could also be 1310 because it's Jacksonville, Arizona. So this would not be like the top storyline of the rest of the fantasy season.

Right now, so it's week 12. And in the high stakes world, this is like a critical week. This is in tournaments, managed leagues, the last regular season week. and the pressure is really on. What is the top storyline? I think I'll say this. It's not what everybody is going to be talking about, but we start the season drafting bestball teams,

and my strategy, as we've talked about, many times, would be to lean into the rookies, hoping that if your team is strong enough to get to the playoffs, that's where the big money is made, and you want the basal tutans of the world. in the world, Jacksonville, to be prominent. Richard Smith, we hit that, guys like that to sort of emerge and hit for you in the fantasy playoffs.

So that's what there is to watch now. Are some of those guys going to, even on, maybe even especially on bad teams where there's no incentive, which should be for the organization to find out what they've got in some of these guys. There are receivers like this that really just haven't gotten much of a look. but maybe could end up being relevant. So my mind in fantasy is in two very different places. In the high stakes tournament stuff, it's pressure week,

and you've got to get these sometimes very hard lineup decisions right or else. And then in best ball, you sort of, you don't have anything that's within your control. You're just sort of watching and waiting to find out. And in general, I want to see some of these younger players get there. It never really happened with Kroski Merritt in Washington. That was a, that was a darling. But think about Trayvion Henderson, who half the season was like, why doesn't he play? Well, they don't need him.

They're winning. Stevenson's good enough. And then Stevenson goes out and kaboon these last couple of weeks for Henderson. So that's sort of the premise. Yeah. I mean, I think at this point also, and NFL players will tell you this, they're no longer rookies. They've played over half of a season. They are, uh, I, and I think it's true that, you know, I was talking to Donovan Jackson, obviously not a fantasy darling, uh, yesterday, but,

you know, he just, at some point, like they cross that line of, uh, no longer being like the fresh guy that's learning everything. You've got the games underneath, uh, your feats and you're either making it or not, but I think that there's corners to be turned for a lot of young players when they, you know, build up that much actual playing experience. And we see guys. And we see guys take off in the second half of the year, which could determine fantasy championships. I think one example at receiver to this point. I didn't think of him when I was talking before. A really good example for this would be Luther Burden. Yes.

Chicago. Like he's moved ahead of Zakias, at least he did last week. They're good. And he's a rookie and talented. And maybe you start to see him get more of a regular role. Pat Bryant in Denver, Besh with the. Raiders like what else are they doing they traded Myers guys like that all right well i guess we will see uh from the results this week whether we end up being right or wrong um usually wrong

somehow we'll both be wrong uh when it comes to trying to figure out what's going to happen in this league but that's uh the fun so mike shop as always great stuff uh another good fantasy show and we will talk again very soon thanks matt Thank you.