Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Former NFL QB Bruce Gradkowski breaks down Kirk Cousins's season and future

Episode Date: February 22, 2021

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Acceptance into the program is limited, so get your application in today. To apply, go to bwhustle.com slash join. Check out the description box for this episode to find out more. That's bwhustle.com slash join. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Scout Logistics. Matthew Collar here joining me, a former NFL journeyman quarterback, Bruce Gradkowski, who also now works for Pro Football Focus and grinds the tape and grades the tape like nobody else. What's up, Bruce? Matthew, what's up, my man? Thanks for

having me on. Yeah, I want you to talk about that a little bit of going through all the tape of all the quarterbacks and grading it how you do because, you know, it used to be a thing of maybe five, seven years ago where you'd hear players say, how do these guys grading my stuff know anything, right? Like who's doing this some guy in his basement well you might be in your basement I'm not sure you got a sick setup there but um but it's you Bruce and you you know what you're talking about as far as NFL quarterbacks but I wonder what you've learned uh having done this now for a little while going through so much tape and then you know really keeping track of all the things

you see I feel like there would be extra things that you would learn about the quarterback position just from doing that yeah no for sure I mean number one it's it's a collaborative effort I mean us at PFF there's so many guys grading these games but there's so many levels of it right and usually I'm the last level of overseeing the quarterback grade specifically trying to just make sure we get that right because there's a lot that goes on not only from a quarterback's mind but throughout the game from a receiver's perspective offensive line protection so making sure too that we're not just downgrading quarterbacks because of something that happened on a protection

the running back missed you know the protection bust that he should have picked up or a receiver route and same thing with um you know not letting the quarterback off the hook you know if the receiver was there and it was a bad ball and he should have hit it you know things of that sort so uh usually my my weekly schedule and it's big time on Sunday, right? Like Sunday about 7 o'clock at night, I start getting the game tape that rolls in. And I go from 7 o'clock at night to about 3 in the morning, trying to get as many throws graded as I can. And then I'll wake up in the morning and try to get the rest done by noon

because our deadline. We want to try to get the rest done by noon because our deadline. We want to try to get our grades out as soon as we can to the public and for the fans, and, you know, they love it. And it's really cool. So I try to get through all the games, and a lot of times after I'm done, I'm like, what did I even just see? Right, right. It's a blur.

If someone's like, how did Aaron Rodgers play? It's like, hmm, how did he play? And then all of a sudden they'll name a throw or something that happened, and then I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, that's right. He had this throw. He had that. He made this mistake. He could have done this better.

Man, what about the big throw before halftime? So it's cool to get to see a lot. And then it's awesome to see all the different offenses and schemes and things of that sort. So it's awesome to see all the different offenses and schemes and things of that sort. So it's really cool. And just our QB annual, too, it's just a collaborative effort of everyone putting this together. And they do really – PFF does a phenomenal job because there's so much

information, so much data we collect that helps us navigate how well these quarterbacks are playing in different situations, you know, under pressure, in a clean pocket, you know, 10 to 19 yards, you know, in play action pass, in the shot. You know, there's all kinds of – there's almost too much data, Matthew, to be honest. You could get overwhelmed. Well, what I like about it, though, is to be able to go through it really with a microscope this season and try to figure out okay what was on the quarterback and what might have been impacted by his circumstances

so i'll give you an example with kirk cousins who by the way the last time you were on i said give me a percentage chance cousins is top 10 and you said 100 and i think he's 10th so like you just got in under the wire there with this pff just made it just made it but uh like i'll give you an example though uh teams blitzed kirk cousins 11 more this year than they did last year and his numbers were not as good as they have traditionally been against the blitz he's really good i think at reading where the blitz is coming from knowing where his hots are all sorts of things like that. But teams were Blitzing up the middle and having a lot of success

and getting a lot of pressure on him. And I think that's one of those things that you say, looking at his past history, it was probably more circumstance than it was anything changed about Kirk Cousins. And I think that's kind of a good example of how we can use a lot of this data. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for Kirk Cousins, I mean,'s kind of a good example of how we can use a lot of this data. Yeah absolutely I mean for Kirk Cousins I mean if you give him a clean pocket if there's no pressure around him like he's going to tear you apart he's an accurate passer he can throw the football very well he's a rhythm type passer so defenses are probably like look let's get pressure

up the middle so he can't step in the throw so he can't be in rhythm because we know what he can do at that time. And also, too, you've got to figure they look at the offensive line and how they're playing and what makes the most sense for us to put pressure on Cousins or make him uncomfortable in that sense. Cousins is one of the top-of-the-line passers, throwing the football. He's going to be accurate with the ball. It was good seeing some nice things he has done this year, but also there's other pieces around him they have to build for this team

going forward. Look, I'm a huge Mike Zimmer fan. Him and I were together in Cincinnati, so I want more than anything to see this Vikings team get back to winning ways like I know they can be. Can we talk about how pressure is sort of a collaborative effort because there's and I'm not against this trust me but there's like a lot of people who say come on draft a guard and you watch the games I mean you saw where the pressure was coming from. It was coming from up the middle all the time. And I get that.

But I also think that there's a little bit of a lesson from the Super Bowl when we watch that it's not just the offensive linemen, but it's also does your quarterback have answers in those situations? And can your quarterback make something where there's nothing? And we know that this is not a Kirk Cousins thing. Like, he's not Mahomes. He's not going to be able to roll all over the place make crazy off-platform throws but I also think that there's an element of did he have somebody open and was he able to get rid of the

ball quickly and was it schemed so there was something for him if things went wrong and that's where I felt like it was missing last year and that contributed to the amount of pressure he faced. Yeah, I mean, I think Kubiak does a phenomenal job. You know, I mean, look what Stefanski has done in Cleveland with this offense and Baker Mayfield. So it's kind of everything has to work in unison, right? If you run the football well, everything else kind of plays off each other. But you don't even have to run the football well for the play action pass game to really take off and so there's some things that when we talk about pressure or things like that yeah you're right it's not just all on the offensive line you know it's the running backs play a part the quarterback plays a huge part

and knowing where to get to the football is he holding it too long is he working the right side versus the right blitz and the right coverage that, you know, we designed up all week against to make sure he works that side if we get pressure? You know, he might have to hand signal if we get a certain blitz look that we know we can't protect as an offensive line if they blitz us this way and they attack our pass protection this way. So there's so many different, you know,

things that go into putting pressure on the quarterback. And, you know, it's tough because a lot of guys, I mean, look at Russell Wilson, you know, he saves his line from a lot of sacks, but he also plays a part, you know, in a lot of those sacks. So, you know, it's, it's very tough, but at the end of the day too, it is all tied together. You you know how are you scheming a certain defense you know how aggressive are they and if they do pressure how can we take advantage of that I always liked when teams pressured because I felt like there's more holes in the

zone or there's one-on-one matchups and you know how can you take uh take advantage of cover zero blitz I was always hoping I got cover zero blitz because I knew my audibles. I knew what to get to, and that's when you can really thrash them. So there's so much that goes into playing the quarterback position, also just having to deal with pressure. I think that when you touched on the play-action part, there's just become this separation of almost two different games that get played on Sunday. There's the game that gets played with play- There's the game that gets played with play action

and the game that gets played in the drop-back game. So it's like if you're on first and 10 and you run play action and linebackers just come steaming full speed ahead toward Delvin Cook and then go, uh-oh, they're throwing the ball. That is where Cousins is at his absolute best because his numbers, the data that you have in the PFF annual, when his receivers got a step on somebody, when they're open, I mean, Kirk Cousins is way above average at finding that guy.

But when it's in the dropback game, explain this from a quarterback perspective in the dropback game. If you're third and seven and the other team is playing two deep safeties and they're dropping people back and they're focusing on your top wide receivers, just how much different is that from a quarterback perspective from when you're running a first down play action yeah I mean third down at seven the defense knows you're going to throw it everyone in the stands knows you're going to throw it every defender on the field you know knows you're you probably have to throw it so So they're playing the pass. Now, on first, second down, you could do either. And so that just kind of gives you a little added advantage of that time.

And, you know, with the play-action pass, like I said, it was in the annual about Drew Locke. Like, Drew Locke's overall grade wasn't very good. You know, he had a ton of turnover where he plays. He just did not play well, but his stat, you know, his grade didn't grade well for us either. But look at his play-action pass grade. You know, that's when he did actually do some good things well. And I see that as two things.

Like, one, he's a quarterback that could turn his back to the defense, play-action fake, and get his head around and still execute to play. He has the physical ability, the arm strength and all that. And play action pass, too, it's simpler for the quarterback. You know, a lot of coaches think you have to run quick game and it's easier and quick passes, but you have to be super fast decision maker. You have to be very accurate with the football and you know like i said the split second decisions have to be done now they have to be correct and

you have to be accurate so it's almost easier to operate play action pass because now you're going downfield more that 18 to 20 yard range 15 to 20 there's more soft spots in the defense and you you have like easier progressions like pure progressions you could go high to low you could go one two three and then you have reliable check down so you have plenty of options and the guy like kirk cousins that's smart he can know right away oh they're you know we call platchet pass he gets around out of his fake he sees a ton of coverage boom he's going to go right to the check down because the check down is going to gain 10 to 15 yards because how soft the coverage was so i think that's where a lot of play action helps um quarterbacks to just get in a rhythm

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Code Purple Insider for free shipping. Yeah, I totally agree. And with Cousins, cousins i mean this was something that mike zimmer really wanted for him in the system and so you know the criticism of the vikings offense is maybe they run too much and where it becomes sort of inefficient to run on second and 12 or something like that right um but at the same time i think that zimmer has the right system for kirk cousins but it's how can they support him, I think, a little more on those third downs, because I was looking at, you know, the expected points added and things

like that on third down, and in 2019, it was actually quite good, but last year, it sunk, and his grade, I think, was 28th on third down, and again, I don't think that that's necessarily a Kirk Cousins grade, but more of like a team grade. So that's kind of how I'm looking at it. It's like you've mastered one part of this, and it's going to be effective. But that other part of the dropback game, tell me, Bruce, how they can make that better around Kirk Cousins to improve that grade. Yeah, I mean, it's weapons. I think Justin Jefferson had a great season.

It's continuing design plays to get guys open the right way. You know, and it's tough, man, because it all aligns with one. You know, if the offense is in a rhythm and flowing, you could get into a nice little rhythm. And then the drop back pass game works pretty well. And it's tough. You know, look, quarterbacks have different strengths, right? There's some quarterbacks that love RPOs, and that's what they want to run. There's some quarterbacks that love rpos and

that's what they want to run there's other quarterbacks that hate it that can't run it i don't know if i'd be the greatest at rpos because quite frankly i'd rather the ball in my hand having to read the defense out instead of having to make split second decision based off one guy what's he do oh okay i gotta pull it and throw it I mean you know I know big Ben in Pittsburgh I don't think he likes RPOs and doesn't execute them very well so they're not easy to do and then there's guys that love the play action pass like myself Kirk Cousins is probably one of them so there's different parts of the game because when you drop back and pass especially for myself being a smaller shorter quarterback it's tough. That pocket collapses fast and tight.

You've got to find a window to throw. You know, the coverage is out there. So there's a lot that goes into it, but you can continue to help quarterbacks by, I mean, you watch Frank Wright in the indie offense. There's a lot of receiver screens out there. It's not all drop-back game. So you just have to have a mix of your offense. You can't just

rely on straight drop back passing all the time well this is a topic that we talk about all the time here and sort of debate is do you get an alignment in the draft do you get a third wide receiver and uh you know i know that mike renner is constantly mock drafting defensive linemen to the bike i don't think he's wrong i don't think he's wrong. I don't think he's wrong, but I'm trying to be the conductor of the wide receiver three train Bruce. I'm trying to convince the world, Hey, you know,

one of those Bama receivers, if they drop to the middle of the draft, that's going to allow Kirk cousins to do a lot of things that might reduce the pressure because someone else is open as opposed to a number three receiver. That's a replacement level player. I also wanted to ask you, um, who is the best group of weapons that you ever got to play with? I know that, uh, let's see, would you have, would you have had AJ green there maybe in Cincinnati a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know,

it's tough because when I was starting, I was in Tampa and I was, I was young, but I was fortunate. I had Joey Galloway, you know, it's tough because when I was starting, I was in Tampa, and I was young, but I was fortunate. I had Joey Galloway, which was our speed. I had Ike Hilliard, receivers coach with the Steelers, which he's just a friendly receiver, going to find a soft spot in the zone, just the guy you can rely on. I had Michael Clayton, big physical guy. So I had some weapons. I had Cadillac Williams behind me as the running back. So my first rookieton, big physical guy. So I had some weapons. I had Cadillac Williams

behind me at the running back. So my first rookie year, I started 11 games. I had some weapons. Now, you know, I could have done a better job with those weapons. And then in the future, you know, with the Raiders, I had Darius Hayward-Bey, speed guy. Lewis Murphy did some good things. And then it was kind of like, yeah, who else do you really have? Johnny Lee Higgins did some good things. And then in Pittsburgh, or Cincy, you know, I wasn't playing. But, yeah, look at Andy Dolan, what he had. A.J. Green, Marvin Jones, Muhammad Sanu.

These were all young guys. Andrew Hawkins, got to shout out my boy from Toledo. You know, we had a ton of weapons in Cincinnati that, yeah, all these guys were young and hungry and just starting their career. And it was fun to watch. And then in Pittsburgh, Antonio Brown. We had Le'Veon Bell. We had Martavius Bryant for that season.

He exploded on the scenes. So, you know, and then Heath Miller is a security blanket tight end. So it was cool to be around all kinds of different weapons. You know, when I was in Oakland, I think one of my biggest weapons was Zach Miller, our tight end. Yep. You know, because that's your comfort level. That is basically your comfort blanket. Third downs, you're going to go to, just like Ike Hilliard in Tampa Bay

and things of that sort. So I think of my career, I've been fortunate to be around good offenses, good players, different coaches where I've learned a ton, learned a ton from John Gruden and Paul Hackett and the rest of the way throughout my career. It was just fun. I've learned a ton of different things. So it was cool to see different weapons.

And, look, Kirk Cousins has had those weapons. It looks like Justin – I mean, it doesn't look. He did. He had an amazing rookie year. So to build on that, Adam Thielen. And then, yeah, like can you get another receiver? And, look, you need speed. You know, start putting some pressure on that defense downfield.

So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what they end up doing. Yeah, I like Jalen Waddell from that. And, by the way, you just went through like all my college Madden seasons. I mean, who wasn't trading for Darius Hayward-Bey because he had a 99 speed and was probably disturbed on those teams. Were you ever a Madden guy? Did you ever, like, play with yourself on Madden? You know, a few times, but not often.

I think it was in college when you first, like, oh, my gosh, I'm on NCAA. That's sweet, you know? Right. And then, like, now, like, my neighbors will come down, and they're like, man, I just played with you last night on, you know, Madden. And I was like, what was it like Madden 2015 or what? Man, the older Maddens are better, but that's for another podcast, I think. So here's what I'm interested in is how quarterbacks seem to be breaking off into kind of buckets. Well, I mean, you've got the elite guys, the Aaron Rodgers,

the Patrick Mahomes, and those guys are like make a bust for Canton, different level of human being. There's no replacing that guy. Those are the LeBron Jameses of the NFL. But everybody else seems to be breaking off into are you an athlete quarterback or are you a sort of system type of quarterback? And I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that as a, like, can you execute at a very high level what you're asked to do?

And that's like Goff and Ryan Tannehill and Kirk Cousins. And I wonder if there's, is there any middle ground to this? Like with quarterbacks coming out and the way that we're evaluating them and what's going to matter, I think in the future and work in the future? Because it looks to me like that's kind of how it is. It's like, are you a Jalen Hurts who's going to be able to run around and make plays down the field and make plays with your legs? Or are you a Jared Goffer, a Kirk Cousins, or a Jimmy Garoppolo? Yeah, you know, it's tough because the game is kind of changing the standpoint. Teams don't want like I mean should

it pay man it comes up out again yeah you want Peyton Manning but still the Peyton Manning is the Tom Brady's the Phillip Rivers the stationary pocket passer it's tough man you got to be a metal machine to just carve defenses apart so it is intriguing to find a guy. I mean, and now Patrick Mahomes has it both. So it's, you know, you're trying to find a franchise quarterback. They don't fall off trees, let alone trying to find a guy that's athletic and can throw from the pocket is tough as well. But you're seeing that a lot more.

You're seeing guys that can move around, can make plays on the run. And then as an offensive coordinator, it's based on the talent you have. Like, who's your quarterback? How can you set him up for success? What's he comfortable running? How can you, you know, design an offense that fits his skill set and help him maximize that? I mean, and with the players around him.

So, I mean, because we see it through the league now. I mean, look at what Lamar Jackson is doing in Baltimore, and that's a successful offense. I take Lamar Jackson as my quarterback every day of the week because not only what he does on the field, but I love his mental makeup, how mentally tough he is as well. So that, to me, is intriguing. That's my number one thing when finding a quarterback is his mindset.

I want to see these guys, talk to these guys, and see what they're made of. So you see it all across the board is, you know, guys like Tom Brady that just won a Super Bowl, he's not running no speed option. He's not, you know, duck diving, dodging people to make plays and throws downfield, but he's a machine in the pocket and makes smart decisions. So you can win with either type of quarterback, but when, when,

when, you know, shit hits the fan, you better be able to deliver from the pocket on key situations, key downs, because at the end of the day, that's what you're going to have to do. Now you could deliver from the pocket, but you can also make a play with your legs also on key downs you know so you know it's crazy man but I just think too we we evaluate these young quarterbacks coming out and you know we're all every coach is trying to find the next guy the

next Patrick Mahomes the next Drew Brees the next Deshaun Watson. It's hard. It's not, you know, these guys don't come out every year. So it's very difficult to find that guy. And then, but also, too, man, you could be successful with a lot of quarterbacks if you continue to help develop them, have the right scheme around them, and do what they're best at with the weapons around them. Hey, I want to take a second to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics. And I really mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics,

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You never have to have any sort of, like, questioning, like, oh, has this guy got it right, or should I be doing that, or whatever. And I think there's something to that. I used to love watching the Gruden camps, and I'm sort of sad that they're gone because sometimes he would ask a quarterback he'd be like what happened on that play and you'd see sort of like a I don't know you know or something like that and it was kind of interesting because if you watch Mahomes is how even though he's a young kid he still has this sort of confidence to him where you think like this guy this guy knows how great he is and he's

in command even of this interview that's going on with this NFL coach where he should be intimidated I used to love to watch those from like a personality perspective oh you know Gruden's so entertaining in that in that sense you know when I was a rookie coming out that's how our meetings were Gruden and I would spend you know 10 hours a day just watching film but it went by so fast because he's such a good teacher and I learned a ton so you know I do miss

those as well and it's always fun but yeah Mahomes always has that poise and composure to handle those situations and that you know that's what Gruden was trying to do he's trying to poke at him a little bit have fun with him, but also like, hey, man, you know,

why did you make this boneheaded decision here? You know, because you want to see, too, how quarterbacks process certain information. It's funny. If anybody wants to go find on YouTube, Kirk Cousins is funny because you'll see some things about Kirk Cousins now in his personality that show up in that thing. Like he wants to debate Gruden on like how wet the football was when he fumbled.

And it's just like, yeah, that's like him. That's a little his personality. Before we wrap up, Bruce, I want to know what you think of like quarterback carousel, not just like who's going where and everything, but the fact that it's happening is so interesting to me because for a long time even you know kind of when I'm growing up or even through the the first Madden era it's like a quarterback will be with a team for a long time and a quarterback could have a terrible year and his team would just stick with him I mean even Matt Ryan I think with four and twelve one year like it happens right um but here

we are where there's so much pressure on quarterbacks if you have a down year or even in the case of jared goff you lose a lineman you lose a couple wide receivers all of a sudden you get paid they can't afford as many people and then it's like all right it's your fault get out and i just i just wonder what you think about that because we've also seen a lot of situations where teams are patient and it eventually pays off for them with quarterbacks. You know, it's tough because the NFL stands for not for long, and that's for coaches and players, and it's getting even more so like that, which is sad. And so coaches need to win now to keep their job. Front offices are trying to win now to keep their job players need to perform to keep their job so it's kind of that

carousels happen because I mean you see in in uh with the Rams I mean I think McVay is like look I'm not gonna tie my coaching career to golf you know if we're gonna succeed then I need to make a move or if I'm gonna get fired I want to get fired the way I want to do things. And I totally agree with that. I mean, you can't, you know, because sometimes you live or die with the quarterback you have. And now I think certain teams are getting to the point where, like, look, you know, I'm not letting this guy bring me down. Like, I'm going in a different direction. And that's, look, and that's all around the league.

And I'm not just pointing out the Goff situation. Because I believe with Goff, with Carson Wentz, with these things that happen, it's better for the player as well. You get a fresh start. I've been in that position. I was cut by Tampa Bay after two years, after starting 11 games as a rookie, backing up Jeff Garcia, playing in a game. And my third year, they released me. And, you know, my confidence was crushed at that time. So it helped me go to a new spot, rebuild my confidence. And then I performed well in Oakland.

I had some good moments. So it can happen for golf, for Wentz. And I cheer those guys on because it's not easy. And so when you see this QB carousel, I mean, it's just tough. It's the day and age we live in, you know, social media, everything is right at our fingertips. We want instant gratification right now. And we want instant winning right now too. So everything is kind of tied to that. But the good organizations, you'll see that they have a little more patience. They understand that it does take some time. Coaches want to, you you know coaches get a job they got to build the players around build their staff build their team and it's going to take a few years you know develop that culture the right way um and going forward because at the end of the day

yes you need skill and players and talent to win but you also need a good culture and at the end of the day that's what it comes down to and you see the the organizations that win consistently more consistently than others they have a good culture it's always amazing to me how fast uh and how delicate like a culture is right i mean with philadelphia there's a story today that um doug peterson and carson wentz didn't talk for 10 weeks you're talking about spending 10 hours a day with john gruden watch a film they didn't talk for 10 weeks which is insane right a coach 10 hours a day with John Gruden watching film. They didn't talk for 10 weeks, which is insane, right? A coach and a quarterback. And but just a couple of years ago, you know, I mean, they're winning and everything else. And then they lose some players and the salary cap happens. And, you know, maybe you make a

mistake in the draft and then all of a sudden people start pointing fingers and things like that. And it's it's crazy how difficult it is and how kind of amazing, you know, somebody like Mike Tomlin is for being able to keep, uh, you know, that, that organization consistent for a long time before we wrap, um, give me a Mike Zimmer story. You got a good Mike Zimmer story from Cincinnati, one that, uh, doesn't involve too many MFs. Yeah. Well, you know, Zim's the best cause he's such a competitor. And, you know, he was defense coordinator when I was at Cincy. And I remember one day he came up to me and the year before I got to Cincy, we beat the Bengals and we were, what, we were losing 14 to 7.

We're driving with like under a minute left. It's a fourth down and 10 or 12 and he shows an all-out blitz and then he drops out of it well I complete the pass for the first down we end up scoring on that drive and we end up winning the game and so he'd come up to me press one day he's like I should have all-out blitz you I should have just all-out blitz you he's like I thought about it and uh but we would go at it every day in practice because I ran the scout team. So I would honestly make up plays in the huddle because I was just trying to mess with him. Like I wanted to mess with his defense. I wanted to make it hard.

I wanted those guys to jump off sides. I would use the hard count, triple count. I'd make up different snap counts just to try to get those guys to jump. And it was kind of fun when I got under his skin a little bit. He had to yell at his defense. But, you know, honestly, Zim's a really good dude. Love watching him coach. And when I came to Vikings camp the last few years with SiriusXM,

it's always awesome to see him because he is a really good dude. He's a great coach. and he cares about his players. I mean, the number one thing for good coaches out there, you've got to genuinely care about these guys and helping them get better because at the end of the day, they can sense that and they can feel it out. You know, are you truly in it to help them, you know, perform and get better? And, you know, and I think Zim is that guy and so that's why I can't wait to see the Vikings and and get back on track I don't want to get

back on track but it's tough to win but they're in a tough division as well but to see them really take the next step get back in the playoffs I'm excited to watch. Zimmer is one of the most competitive people I've ever been around I mean it's it's kind of like he takes it to 11, I think, when it comes to Zimmer. And that was partly, I think, why they have bounced back many times. When they've missed the playoffs, they've been back. Because you know that he's at his ranch in his tree stand grinding tape for the whole time while he's out there hunting or something, right? So Bruce Gradkowski, you know, you're doing great stuff for PFF.

And, you know, it's fun to see you, man. I hope that, you know, next training camp everything's back to normal, that you can come back out with XM or something, or that I can, you know, bump into you somewhere because it's always great to get together with you. And I always learn a lot from you, man. So thanks for your time. Yeah, thanks, brother.

It's always good to be on with you. You always grind. Hey, you grind the tape as well, you know know so i appreciate you thanks for uh having me on like always