Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Former NFL receiver Donald Jones breaks down Justin Jefferson

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

The show begins with Jefferson's stop assets. What makes him so good at contested catches? Will it translate? How his ability to run after the catch can make him effective right away. Donald Jones also explains why it's so tough for rookies to step right into the NFL and dominate.  In the second half of the episode, Kevin Seifert of ESPN talks about why the XFL's kickoff would make sense for the NFL. What would have to happen in order to bring back kick returns? Has the league discussed it?  Read Matthew Coller's written work at Purple Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, do you feel like everything these days is go, go, go? It's non-stop from work to friends to family and a million pressing issues. Sometimes you just need to take a playoff and hit the reset button. That's when you reach for a Coors Light. It's made to chill. Hey, it's that time of year in Minnesota again to get out on the lake, go to the cabin, sit back, watch some baseball. Coors Light is the perfect refreshment to chill during these summer months. There's only one beer out there that's made to chill. The mountains on the bottles and cans turn blue when your beer is cold,

and that way you know it's time to chill. Hit that reset button with some mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, and cold packaged. It's literally made to chill. It's crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. Coors Light is the one you should choose when you need to unwind, when you want to hit the reset button, reach for the beer that is made to chill. Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door

with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate! Hey everybody, welcome into Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here as always with you. Just a quick reminder, if you rate and review the podcast, it helps other people find Purple Insider, and that is super helpful, so I thank you for doing that. Also, check out purpleinsider.com to subscribe to all my written work. Now, let's get into my conversation with former NFL wide receiver Donald Jones, who watched tape with me of Justin Jefferson and is here to break it down.

So let's get going. I was watching the same clips that I sent you from Justin Jefferson, and one thing that stands out to me is that if you throw it up, he's going to go and get it. And I think that that is one thing that if you're in the NFL, you can't count on having eight feet or ten feet of separation from corners like you do in college. So you have to be able to go

up and make those contested catches. And that's what jumped out to me first, that he has that ability to really track the ball quite well. Did you agree with that? So I definitely agree with that. I think he's a high point type of receiver, you know, where he likes to go up and get the ball. He likes to fight for the ball at the highest point um you have some receivers that are like that others that like to uh just let the ball come down into the bread basket type of thing but he's more of a red zone target you know like red zone that fringe red zone throw it up to him right at the back pylon and let him go up and get it um and i think that's something that the Vikings probably need. You know, I mean, you had Stephon Diggs, and obviously you have Adam Thielen.

You have your tight ends, but you needed a receiver that can consistently be a red zone target in terms of going up and getting the ball. And I think that's something that he can come in and provide for you. So how does someone succeed in being able to do that at the NFL level? Because clearly the cornerbacks can jump with you a lot better than they can at college. I mean, is that like a natural thing that some guys can just go up and snatch it? Or is there some sort of technique that you need to take to the next level from college? I think it's a natural thing.

I think that, did he play basketball? I'm sure you've done some reporting on it. I don't know. I actually don't know if he played basketball. But there is something to that for sure with guys who played basketball and having a natural hand-eye coordination. Yeah, I mean, he seems like a guy who played basketball, whether it was high school or just really around, like Stevie type of guy,

Stevie Johnson. But, you know, it seems to be like a natural type of thing. You know, growing up, it's just like go up and get the ball. And then you learn how to position your body in front of a DB and really just go get it. So I think it's a natural thing, and I think it's a mental thing as well. When the ball is in the air, that's my ball. It's not your ball.

So I'm going to go take it. Even if you catch it, I'm going to snatch it out of your hands your hands type of thing you know so i think it's more natural man i don't think it's something i think obviously you have to learn positioning and all of that stuff once you get into the league but for the most part man it's natural that's something you've been doing your whole life yeah and there's something else to that too with we look at the vertical like how high does the guy have a vertical but you know i can't really make much of a connection between the players that I've seen be great at that and what their vertical jump was. Marvin Jones of Detroit is one of the best in the NFL at those contested catches,

and Stephon Diggs is too. And yet there isn't really like, oh, they can jump this many inches higher than the other at the NFL Combine. It seems like certain guys just have that ability to hang in the air. And I'm sure you've been watching the last dance as well uh with michael jordan and his ability to hang in the air it was beyond anybody in history and i just see that with justin jefferson where some guys seem to be able to stay focused and keep themselves sort of up there longer i don't know if there's any analytic way to uh describe, but he seems to have that ability.

You know, I'm not sure if I think the biggest thing, Jordan was amazing, first of all. He did seem to be able to go up, jump up, and just, like, do all types of things with the ball and nearly touch the floor but still get the ball up. I think when it comes to playing receiver, you have to be able to time it the right way. And I think that's something that really goes unseen or, you know, people don't talk about it as much. If you don't time it the right way,

then you're always going to end up jumping before you should jump, you know. And a lot of DBs will jump up and then your receiver will jump up. So you'll see a DB go up in the air and then he's coming back down and then the receiver is going up and now I got it, you know. But I think the biggest thing is just positioning. That's what it really comes down to. If you know how to position yourself in front of somebody and basically box them out, you're going to be able to win those contested balls.

And then once it's in the air to be able to win those contested balls. And then once it's in the air, be able to focus regardless of somebody being on your back or whatever the case may be. Put yourself in the right position, get in front of them, and snatch the ball out the air. It's my ball, and I'm going to take it. And that stands right out on tape. The other thing that does with him is his ability to run after the catch. They used him in a lot of short

passing situations and it looks to me like he just gets an extra gear. Like he'll catch the ball and he'll get the first couple of steps but then when he really sticks his foot in the ground and takes off that he is running by defenders and even guys who are in front of him he seems to be able to find some way to get a few extra yards and there's one move in the national championship game where he kind of comes behind the formation, gets the ball, and then as guys are coming his way, just completely puts on the brakes. They go flying by. Like some of those just natural ball-in-your-hands type of moves. You know, so Justin Jefferson to me was a sleeper pick in my opinion.

And everybody – now Jerry Judy from Alabama to me was was a sleeper pick, in my opinion. And everybody – now, Jerry Judy from Alabama, to me, was one of the best route runners you see coming out of college. But Henry Ruggs was a guy who just blazed the 40s. Not to say he wasn't good, because he was definitely good at Alabama. But I see him being one of those guys that gets into the league and cannot get off the jams and different things like that. And it's like, I don't care how fast you are. If you can't move off the line, then you won't be able to play in this league. But for me, Justin Jefferson is a guy who, you know, he ran what he ran at the 40,

which was believed like a four, four number, right? Yep. Four, four, three, I think. Yeah. So, I mean, four, four, three is still blazing, but he just seems like a football player, like a natural wide receiver, a natural football player, a guy who has a knack for the game. You know, he's not like a track star playing football, is what I'm saying. And you have a lot of those, and some of them might do well in the league, like a Marquise Goodwin.

Others don't, you know. Most of them don't, those guys that are really, really super-duper fast. Justin Jefferson has enough speed where he can separate from anybody. He's not going to get caught by anybody. He knows what to do with the ball in his hands. He's been playing football

since he was a little kid. He wasn't a track star who transitioned over to football. This dude knows what he's doing. When he catches the ball, he turns into almost like a running back, you know, and I think that's something that you guys probably need as well, especially losing Stephon Diggs. You needed somebody to replace the Stephon Diggs who can catch the ball

and make those plays that run after the catch. Adam Thielen, obviously, he's a very good wide receiver, but he's more of your possession type of guy, you know, and you needed somebody who can really catch that ball and do something exciting with it. Yeah, and Jefferson did that a lot in college, and he did a lot of it out of the slot, and I think this is the biggest question that Vikings fans have, that in 2018, he was more of an outside wide receiver, but then 2019, he caught, I think, 100 out of his 110 passes or something in that range when lining up in the slot. But I also look at the way that NFL offenses are now, Donald, and they move receivers all over the place.

I mean, they have the condensed splits where nobody is way outside of the numbers to give guys two-way goes off of the line of scrimmage. And so even if he can't adapt super quickly in his first year to press coverage, I think there's a lot of ways that they can find to work him, where he doesn't have to be a natural slot receiver, but he can do it in other ways and be their X receiver if they need him to. You know, I think that the offenses are changing so much because, I think because of multiple things. I think the wide receiver position is a very tough position to transition to in the pros. And I think the hardest thing, to be honest with you, is guys being able to get off of

jams once they get into the NFL. So what you're seeing from offensive coordinators, other than you have these quarterbacks that are coming from college and so they're going to have to change their offenses anyway but you're seeing a lot of motions and things by the receivers to be able to get them off the line of scrimmage without being touched um you you know you have your your savvy veterans who can really line up anywhere but they can be the x they can be the z be on ball, and might not necessarily have to move around a lot. But a lot of these guys, man, they're moving, they're lining up in bunch formations, motioning and shifting into bunches and shifting into the slot and all of that stuff

so that they can get an easy release. And for me, when you look at Justin Jefferson, the fact that he played in the slot, but he also played outside the year before, lets you know that he can play anywhere on the field. So I think that's something that Vikings fans should really be excited about. Well, give me the key to what he's going to need to learn when he does need to be an outside receiver, because the Vikings will use a lot of two tight end sets. So if you're going to have Irv Smith and Kyle Rudolph in there, Adam Thielen on one side, Justin Jefferson on the other, you're not going to be able to work around all the time trying to keep him where he has the two-way goes or has an easier release. So when you're using him as a pure outside receiver,

what is the biggest difference between getting off the line of scrimmage against press coverage in college and against the NFL corners? I mean, I think the biggest plus that you have is that he's coming from the SEC. So it's not like he's coming from one AA like I did, you know, I mean, if there, when you talk about the learning curve, if there's a smaller learning curve, it's going to be guys coming from the SEC because when you face those Alabama DBS and you face the Clemson DBS that they face in the national championship,

really just week in and week out, Georgia, all of those schools, they have the top, top corners that can press you man to man. So I think that's something that he probably already has. He can get off the line of scrimmage. But he's really going to have to continue to work on that, and he's going to have to continue finishing his routes, and I mean at the top of the route. So when he's coming out of those breaks, coming back downhill,

just making sure that he's always being quarterback friendly, coming back towards the quarterback, things like that. And that's something that young wide receivers in the NFL forget to do. They forget a lot of times, oh, I got to come back. And when I run the route and I break down, boom, boom, and I come out of my break, they might stop and look for the ball. But they forget once you get to this league, those DBs are running those routes with you. And they're coming out of their breaks just as fast as you're coming out of your break. So you need to be able to run away from them.

So he's going to have to do that. You know, if he's able to do that at the top of his routes, he's going to be fine, man. To me, I think he was the biggest sleeper in the draft. You know, when everybody was talking about Jerry Judy and C.D. Lamb from Oklahoma, and everybody obviously went crazy over Henry Ruggs, 40. Justin Jefferson was that quiet, okay, everybody go ahead

and sleep on Justin Jefferson, sleep on him, sleep on him. He's going to go somewhere early, and he's going to show and prove that he can play in this league you know and and he he was consistent in college his numbers his numbers at the combine were right in line with how he plays on the field and i think he's just a natural guy i think i think there are certain guys who are natural wide receivers. I was just talking about this a couple of weeks ago with my staff. I'm a head coach now in Jersey.

I didn't know that. Congratulations. I did not know that I was talking to Coach Donald Jones. Sorry, I'll call you Coach on future podcasts. I'm Coach now. Good for you. It's crazy, though. We're probably not going to have a season this year, but we were just talking about wide receivers and you know guys who natural at that position

you know like like a robert woods to me robert woods has always been a natural wide receiver just the way he runs the way he comes out of his breaks all of that stuff he's natural at it you know whereas other guys they they seem they have to really work at it. Justin Jefferson, to me, just seems to be a natural at that position. I think he's going to be good. If he can really – if he and the quarterback, you know, cousins can really gel together, then he's going to be okay. Got to tell you about a new sponsor for the show.

It is SodaStick. Go to SodaStick.com to get all your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. If you haven't seen this stuff yet, you got to check it out. One of my favorite designs is the Minnesota Moon, a tribute to the infamous Disgusting Axe at Lambeau Field. All their apparel is screen printed here in Minneapolis on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it.

We're going to hook you up with free shipping on your next order. Use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K dot com. SodaStick, the original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. Okay, let's talk about the mental part of this. Minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping. Okay. Let's talk about the mental part of this. Um,

because even if you're a natural receiver and you've got lots of skill and you run the 40 and you're awesome at the combine and all these other things, you can be undone if you can't get lined up correctly and nothing, nothing drives the coaches crazier in training camp when the rookie wide receivers are lined up in one way or another that they're not supposed to be. And Kirk Cousins has to yell at them out there. So explain that jump. Now, he was playing for Joe Brady, who is now an NFL offensive coordinator who had been in the NFL before at LSU. So I think that's a big bonus for him.

But it's just not the same. Yeah, it's not the same. Like I said, now LSU, like you said, he's playing for a good system down there where you have to learn a little bit, but now he's going to have to learn a lot more and he doesn't have the added benefit of actually going through whatever off-season workouts they're going to have. Who knows workouts they're going to have. You know, who knows if they're going to have them right now, you know? So all of these rookies are going to be kind of behind the eight ball in this because when I first came in, I remember, you know,

they were putting in like 10 new plays a day. And you're going to mess up in practice, right? But for me, I'm the type of learner where being on the field and actually seeing it and doing it helped me remember my plays versus me just looking at the playbook and having to learn that way. Now, everybody learns different, you know, but when they come in, they're going to be behind the eight ball. And I think the coaches are going to have to understand that.

And even the quarterback, Kirk Cousins, is going to have to understand that this kid has not had any reps. He hasn't had the reps that former rookies will have. You know, these guys are really just going to get thrown into the fire. Who knows what even shape they're in? You know, I mean, these guys are still celebrating probably getting drafted. They're working at home and they might have a trainer, but it's nothing like being there at the facility, working with your quarterback and other wide receivers, you know.

So I think that's something that – and I've seen Adam Thielen actually shout him out. I've seen that on Twitter. He shouted him out. And I don't know if they've been working out together, but it's still different when you're talking about putting the pads on, learning the plays, and being able to do this stuff without forgetting. All of the audibles, all of the checks, and all of that stuff without forgetting.

They don't have that right now. So I think the coaching staff and the quarterbacks are really going to have to understand that and really ease off these guys, but we all know they're not going to ease off these guys, right? So I think he's going to have to study, man. It's going to be hard for all of them. It really is. And one of the things with the slot receiver specifically,

if he does a lot of that, is that you have to make reads on the fly. I mean, you have to do it with outside receiver too, but it seems like the slot is a lot of what type of coverage you're getting, what type of leverage that you're getting from defenders, and you have to read and react to those things super fast. And that might take a little bit of an adjustment, even if they did some of that in college. NFL defenses are going to disguise different coverages, and players are super savvy, and they know how to make one thing look like another thing. We've seen that for Harrison Smith for years so it just it seems like

it would be a really overwhelming situation for a rookie to not even have those OTAs and then come in and have to play like oh here's Harrison Smith messing with you as a safety and then go right into the NFL and you've got you know the Green Bay Packers and Mike Pettin right away um you know that seems like it's going to be a huge challenge for any rookie wide receiver. Man, my rookie year, we played the NFC North. So we had Ed Reed and we had Troy Palomaro. It was so hard to understand what those two dudes were doing. Like, I mean, you talk about savvy vets that know how to disguise things. Troy Palomaro never played where he was supposed to play.

He'd be down on the line of scrimmage and drop back in the midfield. He'd be down on the line of scrimmage and drop back deep half in a cover two, you know, at the snap of the ball. And it's like, come on, man. Like, I thought that was a cover three, coach. My bad. He was at the line of scrimmage. I thought he was blitzing.

You know, so it's so hard with these safeties. And like you said, they're savvy, you know. And the rookies, they're really just going to get thrown into the line of fire. They're going to have to learn on the go, and they're going to make a lot of mistakes. And that's just what it is, you know. They're going to make a lot of mistakes. Let me tell you, the biggest thing for all of these rookies is being in shape because there's something funny we always say.

The first thing to go is the mind. When you get tired out there on the field, you start to forget your plays. But there's no way for them to train at home the way that they would train if they were actually having practice and all of that stuff, OTAs and all of that stuff. And I remember back in my rookie year, we had OTAs, then we came back to training camp. Stevie and I was just talking about

this like a month ago um I ran a go route and I'm I was so tired I must have ran like eight yards 10 yards down the field but I felt like I ran 40 and I just stopped and my coaches and we went back and we watched it on film and the coach went off on me like what are you doing and I was like my bad coach I thought i was 40 yards down the field man i was i was dead tired though i had nothing left to give but that was my rookie year you know and i didn't in your rookie year you don't know how to work out like that you're still kind of on a high from actually being drafted so um i think the the two biggest things for him be in shape number one because if you're not in shape, you're going to get hurt.

And number two, really be in that playbook and try his best to understand and really be talking, calling Adam Thielen on a consistent basis. Yo, I'm looking at this play right now. What am I supposed to do if they do this? What am I supposed to do

if he checks this? And Adam Thielen is going to have to be his best friend, and Adam Thielen is going to have to bring him along in the best way he can. If they do this, what am I supposed to do? If he checks this and Adam Thielen is going to have to be his best friend and Adam Thielen is going to have to bring him along in the best way he can. If they need to get on these zoom calls, like you and I are on right now and watch film together, then that's what they're going to have to do. They got to be creative right now because the rookies are going to be behind the curve.

Yeah, no, for sure. And a great point about other players mentoring each other. I don't think that all fans understand how big of a deal that is. I mean, all across any position group, if you have guys who are great teachers, I mean, that could be a huge benefit, and we've seen that from the Vikings on the defensive side especially. And the one benefit that they have is that Kubiak is the offensive coordinator. He was there last year.

It's the Kubiak offense. So Thielen knows it. Irv Smith knows it. B.C. Johnson knows it. All these other guys. So he can have multiple people helping him out. And it's not like they're all trying to learn it together. Adam Thielen already knows it to be able to teach it to Justin Jefferson. That is a huge plus.

If you have everybody trying to learn a new system together, oh, man, with this pandemic that we're in, it's going to be difficult for those teams. But for those teams that have the coaching staffs coming back, quarterbacks in the same system, you have other players that have been in the system, it's easier to bring along these rookies. You know, oh, man, my rookie year, I played with Leah Evans, Stevie Johnson, and Roscoe Parrish. And Roscoe is my boy. But there were times we went out on the field and Roscoe was asking me, yo, what do we have right here? And I'm like, ah, man, you've been in the league like six, seven years. How are you asking me what we have right now?

And sometimes you have that. You have certain guys that are willing to actually pull another guy along at your position because you know at some point you're here to replace me. So you have those guys, and then you have guys that are like, I'm not teaching you nothing, you know. So it's really based on the team. It's based on those individual players. As a rookie, you just got to do your best to try to, man,

go ahead and pull on to somebody's coattail and let's ride this thing so that until I learn everything, then I don't have to ask you any more questions. Yeah, there's a reason why no receiver topped 60 catches last year who was a rookie. I mean, it just – that transition is very tough at that position. Donald, this has been awesome, and I really appreciate you taking all this time, man.

Yeah, man. You caught me in a rough time with the pandemic, man. You look fine. You look all right. You're okay. You just look like an 80s bass player or something. Because I got the mustache. That's terrible.

I'm going to keep this look going on until we come out of this thing. All right, before we continue the discussion, I have to tell you about BetOnline. There is no shortage of action going on right now in our exclusive partner, BetOnline. NASCAR is back, and BetOnline has hundreds of other games, events, and sports to get in on. You can still bet on simulated NFL, NBA, UFC events 24-7, or you can participate in a $10,000 Madden Bracket Challenge, a March Madness-style NFL simulation tournament that you can enter for free. And live right now on BetOnline's YouTube channel,

you can find an exclusive interview with ex-Chicago Bulls Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, and Craig Hodges to discuss the Michael Jordan documentary on what they are calling the final dance. Visit BetOnline.ag and use the promo code BLUEWIRE to receive your new welcome bonus and check out all the action. BetOnline, your online wagering solution. All right, we welcome in ESPN's Kevin Seifert to discuss the XFL kickoff to go along with my article on Purple Insider. And Kevin, I want to start off by just telling you, I love the XFL

kickoff. I am yet to talk to anyone who does not like the XFL kickoff, but let's start with whether there's some momentum, if any, for the NFL to consider bringing in something different when it comes to the kickoff. Well, a couple of competition committee members brought it up sort of unsolicited at the combine. I mean, they just generally said, what do you think about this XFL thing? You know, and they brought up the kickoff. First thing they brought up is something that caught their eye as well as the, uh, the, the different sort of PAT options that they had after touchdowns. But they, you know, I don't, they didn't go so far as to say that the XFL had a

better idea than they did because remember the NFL changed their kickoff a couple of years ago in hopes of spurring more returns, and it really hasn't. It has been safer in terms of concussion numbers, but it hasn't spurred more returns. The XFL, you know, if nothing else, spurred returns. I think when their five weeks were up, they were at 93% on return rate. So almost literally almost every kickoff was being returned. And people were just starting, I think, to figure out how to scheme it in a way that wouldn't just be like a run play.

Because in the beginning of the season, it was just like a, you know, run 15 yards and then you hit the line and then you're tackled. And so they were just starting to figure that out. You know, the NFL, like whether they would say, we'll just go ahead and steal this from the XFL, that wouldn't be in character. They'll want it to appear as though it was kind of their own idea. So I don't sense any, like, any near-time momentum for that, partially because I think all the decision makers are now like all COVID,

you know, all, you know, planning health and safety all the time. But to the extent that we get back to sort of a more traditional NFL timetable, and if another season goes by where returns are like 30% or whatever, 35% touchbacks or 60% or more, then maybe they will take a look at other ways to do it. It's definitely funky when you first see it. You know, there's no doubt about it. And I think even some of the XFL people, the football people, I don't know about this, but by the end they all loved it.

Yeah, once you got used to how it looked, which was strange for sure, and you're reliant on the referee just moving his arm and then everyone gets to go and start playing, that was a little bit odd to see. But once the coaches started to get creative and we saw reverses and we saw some unique blocking schemes, to me it gave an opportunity to have something that's always been great in football, which is innovation. I mean, there's only so many more ways people can do things on offense and defense. But with special teams, I mean, there isn't much room for innovation now

when you only get 15 kick returns a year. So it goes along with more entertainment for fans, clearly, because these guys used to be big stars in the league. You used to have your Mel Grays and your Glenn Milburns and guys like that, or Dante Hall, depending on when you grew up, who was the most exciting returner. Josh Cribs, another one. We just don't even have that in the game. It's Cordero Patterson will return one or two a year now out of the 15 or 20, and that's about it. And I think from both aspects, the creativity is always fun for fans, and then the excitement. I don't think they're more entertaining plays than when a guy breaks loose on a kick return and and really on a base level

it's just ensuring that there's not a dead play like there's like whether there's a lot of great returns or whether everybody just goes 15 yards and falls down like at least live action is happening you know six out of every 10 kickoffs in the NFL uh go into the end zone and kneel down the clock doesn't even move like that's how uneventful it is and so like we spent so much time uh in recent years complaining about how the PAT was so automatic and you know like it was it's basically like a dead no reason to watch it well there's even less reason you know statistically to watch a kickoff if you if you decide to to skip out on it and that's the one time a guy goes 104 yards then you missed out on

what as you said a really exciting play but uh you know the baseline for any for any innovation should be ensuring that something happens on every play and like six six out of every ten kickoffs, nothing happens. So how much safer was it? Do we know? Because it seemed like there weren't a whole heck of a lot of injuries, and when you have the guys lining up without running full speed at 20 miles an hour at each other, seems to me like it would be a lot safer. Yeah. I don't know if there was any confirmed concussions on any of the kickoffs.

I don't know about injuries, but based on how their alignment is, and I'm sure you explained in the article, but it's guys just standing in front of each other and just blocking not much different in space than the offensive and the defensive line. And the returner is really no different than a running back or a receiver who's running in the open field. And so to the extent that there would be injuries, you wouldn't attribute it to the kickoff per se

because the play is, the functional part of the play is not much different than offense. Well, Kevin, tell me about what would have to happen in order for the XFL kickoff to end up in the NFL or some version of it, something that was similar with guys lining up and then catching and then being signaled to go. I think that that's the best direction that they could come up with to make sure this is still a part of it. But how far away would we be if the NFL decided, no, we love what the XFL did here?

I mean, it would just have to depend on the extent to which there was discontent with the current uh situation they're not unhappy with it now because they've gotten their concussion numbers down um and that was the top priority uh the second priority was to try to encourage more returns and they haven't been able to do that and so will there be enough groundswell uh amongst you know fans uh media players owners like would they all think that's a big enough priority to you know we to maintain that safety but also try something different um it this was a fairly elongated this is like a two-year process just to get it to where they changed it in 2018 and it didn't change like it was a lot of you had to me like you had to be pretty well versed in

special teams to have been able to pick that off pick that out before anybody told it to you but this one is obviously much more wholesale it goes against the the nfl's you know they're just very conservative when it comes to changing the game and they're very um they place a high priority on not introducing something that doesn't look like football to most fans and i think that was an xfl concern too they they didn't have the 100 years of build-up to worry about or tradition they and they had advertised themselves as reimaginers and re-engine and re-engineers of the game. So people had that expectation, but I still think that they feared and probably experienced in the first week or two some, like, well, what's this?

You know, when you have, you know, what is it, 20 guys standing across from each other just standing there while the play is live. So it's definitely different from the, you know, from what we expect out of a football play. And it would just have to, there would have to be just, to me, a pretty significant groundswell of discontent with 60% touchbacks and no other incremental ideas on how to do that. So long story short, you know, it doesn't feel like something

the NFL would jump on in the next couple years. But then again, there might be a time when they feel like the other issues that they've been working on are handled and this is something that they can look into. Well, I'm printing the t-shirts now. It's like, bring us the XFL kickoff. I will start this groundswell myself because there hasn't been a whole lot. I mean, I haven't seen too many football people on Twitter or writing articles like the one I'm doing to say, hey, this has to happen. We need to bring this play back. I mean, maybe it just sort of speaks to my random interest in kick and punt returners from the late 80s to early 2000s. But I think it would be a huge benefit.

Is there anything else from the XFL, before I let you go, Kevin, that you think the NFL was interested in that we could see implemented at some point? I don't know how quickly it would be implemented, but they were definitely interested in the XFL's efforts to liven up the point after. The NFL has been also interested in the XFL's efforts to liven up the point after. You know, the NFL has been also interested in that, and their answer was to move the kick back in hopes of making the kick harder or incentivizing teams to go for two more often. And we are seeing people go for two more often,

but the XFL outlawed the kick entirely and said you could either go for one, two, or three points after a game, and depending on, you know, whether at the two, the three, or the five-yard line, or the ten, the two, the five, and the ten-yard line for those three. And so what that did is, like, blow up all the math that we have gotten used to in football. There was even going for the one point extra point from the two yard line. You know, you saw a lot of six to six games and a lot of 12 to six scores. And then if you could go for two and then you could be trailing by nine at the end of a game.

And it's really a one score game because it's you get a touchdown and then go for two? And then, you know, you could be trailing by nine at the end of a game, and it's really a one score game because it's, you get a touchdown and then go for three. And so it changed the end game math a lot for coaches to the point where they were like, you know, I don't even know what to do right now. The most efficient thing was to go for two from the, I believe it was from the five. And I don't know if the nfl would go to something that dramatic but um i think they were intrigued by the effort to because even with the extra point um moved back i think it's still at like 94 or so um and probably the biggest outcome of that rule change has been more people going for two but to go to have those three options and not only to have those options that just make it more interesting it also probably decreases the chances for overtime which is

something I think the NFL would actually like to do like no one wants to have to to go to overtime no one likes the extra uh the extra plays or just the randomness and we've never been able to figure out a fair way probably to do overtime so So that different math that comes out of those three options, I don't think the XFL had an overtime game. Maybe that would force coaches to actually pay attention to the analytics guys when they're telling them the game management. Well, they eventually, like initially, the XFL supplied all that analytics to the coaches, and they said the most efficient thing all things

considered is to go for two not not go for one or go for three only go for one or three if you need it to you know to win the game basically um and for the first two or three weeks nobody did it like they just all were going for they're just all going for one they just not too much can't handle it. And then they finally started figuring it out, and you started seeing some funkier scores, in part because going for one was not the automatic that they're used to. And so once they realized that, they started experimenting a little more. And so I think NFL coaches would do the same thing.

Again, that falls in the category of something much – a big departure from what the NFL convention is. And the NFL has not often, if ever, veered from convention too much. It's more about tweaking rules

than overhauling them. And so I don't know about the likelihood of it, but I know they were intrigued by a different attempt to do the same thing that they were doing which is liven up that that play after the touchdown well I think we always as fans just adapt quickly right I mean at one point the goalposts are in the end zone and then they're not and we all got used to it eventually in baseball they used to run over the catcher every time there was a play at home. Now they don't do it anymore. Does anybody not like baseball because you don't do that? I mean, I think that taking some risks with rules, especially since you can always pull them

back, the pass interference. You made a mistake, you pulled it back, it's fine. So try something fun if you can. Yeah. And again, not often the NFL's approach to things, but I think it's a healthy one. And I think that you'd be underestimating fans' attachment to tradition to be overly cautious when there's an obvious problem that needs to be addressed. I mean, think of the fantasy ramifications with way more kickoffs. I think people would love it. Kevin Seifert from ESPN, thanks so much for taking the time to join me and talk a little XFL.

Hopefully it will one day return and we can do this again. Let's do it. Hey, this is Megan Rapinoe, and I'm Sue Bird. We've decided to turn our crazy IG live show into a podcast for your listening pleasure. Enjoy the show. A Touch More. New episodes of A Touch More

drop Tuesday only on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. Be sure to subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts.