Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Former Viking QB Sage Rosenfels talks about the Vikings' future at quarterback

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Matthew Coller and former Minnesota Vikings quarterback Sage Rosenfels talk about the final two drives of the Vikings' offense against the New York Giants and why they failed. Plus Sage discusses what the Vikings' plan for the future should be and how he worked with Brock Purdy to help him prepare for playing for the 49ers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Liquid Death, delicious water that's bringing death to plastic. Learn more at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and it's been a while, but we needed to get back together to talk about an Iowa State quarterback in the playoffs, of course, and the Minnesota Vikings end to their season and their future with former Minnesota Viking, former Houston Texan, former Miami Dolphin, Sage Rosenfels, and of course a cyclone

through and through. What is going on my friend? How are you? I'm good. My first question to you is when you're a former Washington R-word as they were once called, I don't use it. I prefer not to use it, but what do you, what do I refer to myself as then? Or I'm just a Washington football team alumni, alumnus. I love Washington football team. I wish they just stuck with it. I wish they stayed with it because I can't call you a former commander because you were never a commander. But I also don't want to use the other thing either.

So just Washington football team quarterback is totally fine. I think that if they actually start winning and like make a nice organization out of the commanders, get rid of Daniel Snyder, bring in people to run the organization right, maybe you could proudly say ex-commander. But as of right now, they don't deserve that respect. The commanders. You know, during that whole time between, you know,

what do they change the name to that happened long time ago? There were people that, Hey, if they change the name, here's some names and how they came up with commanders and how my opinion, the worst owner of the national football league, I don't know all the other ones all that closely, but their, you know, email records and responsibilities aren't in the news nearly as much as the commander of Washington, Dan Snyder. We'll see how, how long that situation goes. I saw Jeff Bezos, $7 billion maybe is like, would be the owner.

And at that point, just you would think like all Washington games are going to be on Amazon prime and just make Amazon Palmer, you know, I don't know it. It's the world has, the world's different than it was when I was playing for the Washington R words, some better, some things worse. But here we are talking about death taxes and Kirk Cousins losing a football game, you know, in the playoffs after a very, very good regular season as a team. I'm interested to talk about that today. I'm interested to talk about that today.

I'm interested to talk about Brock Purdy today, Iowa State's cyclone. I know you have some cyclones up there that follow the Vikings. Well, big overlap, by the way. A lot of overlap. North Central Iowa, Central Iowa, a lot of cyclone and Vikings fans. And so I'm sure many of them listen to your podcast. So I'm excited to talk football today and who's going to win the whole thing well we could start in a bunch of different places with the Vikings and the quarterback situation everything else but I think we should go to the

playoff game first then we could talk about Kevin O'Connell who you know and also to talk about kind of the future of the Vikings a little bit, at quarterback they have a decision to make almost every single offseason, it seems, with the way that Kirk Cousins' contract has been set up. And then definitely I want to ask you about Brock Purdy because I sent you a text during a preseason Vikings 49ers game, and I was like, you know, it looks pretty good, this guy you were working with, Brock Purdy, and I had no idea that this would happen. But when it comes to the Vikings and Giants game, I thought that Cousins had one

of his better games, even as a Viking, considering the stage, considering the fact that Dexter Lawrence was blowing up the interior of the line and he was working TJ Hawkinson so effectively, but it's unfortunate for him and Vikings fans that the end of the game is going to be seared into their minds. I guess as a former quarterback, I mean, I saw Kurt Warner doing breakdowns of the final play and all those things. And I guess I wonder what you thought of how the game came to an end and if that says anything about Cousins or not, because I think that the totality of his season was very good under Kevin O'Connell, and you saw what happens when someone leans into Cousins

that you get volatility. You got a lot of great performances, great quarters, and then down moments, you got more sacks than ever before, more interceptions than ever before. But I thought it was really interesting to see what it would be like with a different approach and not like with John DeFilippo doing it, but someone who really, I think, understands offense in Kevin O'Connell.

So we saw kind of the highs and lows of what happens when you do that. But it's going to be hard, I think, for a lot of fans to move on from the last two drives, really, of the game. Man, where do I start with that it was that is there a question in there no it was now you talk about what you thought of the last okay so i'll talk about the whole thing i'll talk about the whole thing yeah the whole thing the whole thing kevin o'connell kevin o'connell let's start with him uh fantastic coach fantastic coach i can't say i know ke well, but, you know, going back in the old days, threw balls with him at a couple of throwing sessions in San Diego in

the offseasons a couple of times and very likable guy to be around, you know. And then, of course, his career, he gets into coaching and, you know, like a lot of coaches, worked for, you know, somewhere in the trilogy there of offensive coaching right now in the NFL, Shanahan, McVay, LeFleur, you know, that whole world. And it just has spread everywhere. I mean, Seattle's offensive coordinator, Shane Waldron, he was the Rams offensive coordinator, you know, four or five years ago. Right.

So this, he's another part of that tree after being other places before. New England is where he played, but he obviously is not running that New England system. It'd be interesting to ask him, by the way, sometime, how did you decide this system? You've been around all these systems, Belichick's things and Josh McGann's. Why this one? And I think that'd be an interesting question uh I guess to ask him but as as as he maximized Kirk Cousins and did a fantastic job with running the offense that actually Kirk knows extremely well extremely well and he's pretty much been in the same offense uh his whole career and it's an offense that I was in for three years and so I know that offense makes quarterbacks better than they were in other

offenses. And each one of those coaches in that world, it's not all the same. They all have their own sprinkle, but it's sort of based in these fundamentals that if a quarterback goes out and does this, this, and this, you can be successful. And so Kirk had a really good season. I think he put more on Kirk's plate. And I think they did throw the ball more and more interceptions. But I think Kirk a lot of times was being more aggressive than I saw him before. And they had a great season. Won all these close games. Sometimes the ball bounced their way, but most of the time they went out and earned it. Having to play, though, with this big weakness of a poor defense. We've always talked about with Kirk is so many good things that he does. And he's like the ultimate executor.

But those guys have to be on one of those teams that's like loaded on defense and has a great running game and a star receiver, right? Those like, you know, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Not saying he has to be on that team, but the Chicago Bears, Rex Grossman, gets a Super Bowl, great defense. And the offense wasn't anything special, but like he did enough to do his job type of thing and to get them all the way there. Kirk needed this like loaded team and they didn't have a loaded team.

They had a weak defense, one of the worst in the National Football League. So when push comes to shove at the end in those final two drives, the team did get more conservative. We could go through them, a tight end screen, a wide receiver screen, and they don't work. And then Kirk has to try to, you know, a third and long situation, and they don't get it. Punt.

Like that's crunch time Kirk right here. Fourth quarter, this is what we need. Not all those other games in the first quarter or the second quarter or whatever. We need it now. And everything sort of got conservative there. And then on the last two plays, here's how I'll break those down.

The first play, so it's man-to-man coverage, pretty obvious to see. The question is, if you want to do a count, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but man coverage with a four-man rush, okay? You've got seven defenders. You've got a free safety deep in the middle. So now you're down to six. Well, there's five eligible players.

So everyone's got someone man-to-man, and there's one extra player. We call him a whole player. And sometimes it's a linebacker. Sometimes it's a safety. Sometimes it's safeties that switch to the middle. But there's this extra guy that you can do something with. And usually he's sort of right in the middle of the field, five yards or ten yards, somewhere in there, looking for crossing routes because everyone is funneling everybody inside because you have two extra guys.

So they're going to play outside leverage, right? It's like basic fundamentals of man-to-man coverage. I understand that. Teams can also take that extra guy and double a great player. That's the other option. You see it all the time. You see with Tyreek Hill. A lot of times Tyreek Hill will just try to split them.

They'll just like, we're just going to run right through both of you as you in and out him. Sometimes that's the best way to do it or like a sort of a stop and go but right where they're about to squeeze you and then you just run past them. In this situation on the second to last play, he made the right read. They had doubled Jefferson and he had Osborne coming across. The throw just wasn't perfect. It was right in his chest,

but sometimes right in his chest isn't good enough. Then the first thing I heard rookie training camp that I'd never heard before is one foot in front of the front number, one foot in front, one foot in front of the front number. That's where the ball needs to be. Not on his chest chest one because that's where you can catch and run away slant one foot front of the front now sometimes yeah you do put it on their chest right but when guys are moving it's not on their body so they slow down and he had to slow down just a little bit it was

a good throw not a great throw Need to be great in that situation. The last play, again, very obvious pre-snap. Looks like they're going to split man-to-man coverage, and they're going to double Jefferson again. You got a safety down over there. He's in and out. Everyone else is just straight man-to-man coverage. And he went in that direction.

They had on basically looked like corner routes. If it was cover two, you'd high-low the corner. Usually, you can get a completion there. When it's man-to-man, they end up being almost like out-routes. Sometimes, the angle ends up going higher. He chose Jefferson's side and that was the mistake. That was the mistake because

the tight ends route there, Kurt Warner had this breakdown that there's a choice route. It wasn't a choice route. All right. Kurt, that St. Louis offense, they're running backs running a lot of choice routes. Marshall Falk running choice routes. That was not a choice route.

That was a chip check down. And maybe he had a flap, but versus man-to-man coverage, that is not a winning route. That is a route for zone coverage, right? He chose the wrong side. If he does choose the other side, it's Adam Thielen, who got outside leverage and is running, that's exactly what you want.

The throw has to be there. It's not gonna be easy to throw. He had a guy in his face, but that was the throw. And I think the inside guy was like a bender that basically is running the safety not a good ride either so really he just chose the wrong side the problem is that once he chose wrong and once if patrick mahomes doesn't run that play he might choose wrong too look at the tight end be like it's fourth and eight i can't throw a check down to

the tight end who's at three yards i can can't. I'm going to make a play. I'm going to make a play. And he scrambles ahead for 15 or 20 yards. And it's like, that's the difference. That's the difference. And Kirk executed on that play. But when you need it the most, it's beyond the execution. It's beyond the X's and O's.

And for, you know, I don't know, 10 years, more often than not, he hasn't been able to do that. And it's, he's had a tremendous career. I actually, I think very, very highly of him. He's a total professional. He, he, he came into a, an organization and gave it like stability and just does all the sort of professional, you know, right things. And, but that is the weakness. He was a fourth round draft pick because he was limited. Matt Schaub was limited to Matt Schaub could do a lot of good things, led the NFL in passing, but like was not a great athlete. He wasn't great athlete. I had my fair share of limitations, of course, physically and mentally.

I don't think I process information nearly as well as you see things. I had to anticipate. My arm had all sorts of – I had no mechanical teaching before I retired, basically. So we all have our things, and Kirk just doesn't have that basically physical capability, from how I see it, to when it really matters most, when you've got to have it. One of those games in the playoffs, usually a quarterback has to do something magical to get to the Super Bowl. One of the games, he's like, hey, we came back, or he just played incredible great game one game and and um kirk's

not good enough with the defense ranked you know in the bottom couple in the league uh if they would have had a great defense they would have had the jared allen chad greenway uh that defense or some of the other defenses that i played on some other teams zach thomas jr say out jason taylor with that defense kirk would have won a Super Bowl and the right offense when I was in Miami. He was good enough. We had such a dominating defense as those Viking defenses are really good too. That's sort of how I see. I don't know. That's not going to change. It's going to be the same next year.

They just need to have a much better defense. But if you're expecting Kirk to, at the very, very most important play of the season, to have to make a play and make magic happen, I haven't seen it ever. And that's just the way it goes. And just going back to the second-to-last play, that was the one cousin said that he maybe regretted the most because the throw was there and he didn't make it the way that he needed to make it um and you know kj osborne probably should catch that ball but that's maybe tougher

than you think so you're like i think you and him saw it the same way that that was the play to be made the db get a did a db get a hand on it? He might have. He might have. I didn't have an angle to be able to see that really well. So real quick, by the way, one of the things that like concerned me, right, is that he's been in the league for this long. And the second to last play, they ran this coverage. So afterwards, after you miss that throw, you're thinking, okay,

they're doubling jefferson like they just did the last play and you come out here and it looks the same why would you still start there why would you still start at the guy that's doubled when you know on the other side that he's going to be in adam thalen's a heck of a receiver and he's great at those routes and he's great at going up and making plays if maybe you just give him a chance right and so you know that that's the that's sometimes the like mechanical kirk that i uh that i struggle with of like i know you're trying to go to jefferson but like they're doubling him you know go to the other side right like you should recognize that

peyton manning's going to the other he's going going to Reggie Wayne, not Marvin Harrison in the exact same situation. Right. And with, uh, even with the play, that was something that I kind of wondered about. And I guess this is how the playoffs work, where everything comes down to one play and then we rip it all apart and there's 70 plays in a game and stuff, but it is a fascinating one of how that played out because that's the most memorable play of that game for Vikings fans aside from watching Daniel Jones be great in that game against them but I wonder what you think though because I I might be wrong about this you played with Andre Johnson I've watched some of your games you know what you did you threw to freaking Andre Johnson all the time almost no

matter what and so there was a part of me that thought on that play, just give Justin a chance anyway. If that's the side of the field that you chose, then just go with it. Just go with it. Yeah, that's the thing is there's a throw there. I mean, there's a throw and catch there that we've all seen in an NFL game. It's contested. But it would just be him and the DB, excuse me,

with the DB's back turned to him because he's playing way outside technique and Jefferson's inside of him. And so that's the whole thing is you don't want to run these out routes or corner routes. A lot of times with outside technique, you're right into the defender, basically. But we all know you put it up there for that kid and he's he's going to come down with it. So pull the trigger, pull the trigger if you're going to give your guy a chance. Right. So that's another aspect of it too. There's all these things I think about when I go back to it of like, gosh, like things that bothered me about those last couple of drives,

the conservative that I thought it was interesting. I wonder why Kevin was so conservative in that situation. You know, last year at the combine, you and I were there. He asked both Casey and coach O'Connell, these, these sort of questions. At least I did. I was like, I'm going to ask him questions about like, are you looking for a playmaker and a quarterback versus a, someone who just executes and they're all like, we know where you're going with this one. You know, like, because my thought was like, do you,

don't you think you need one of those playmakers? You have to try to go out and get the, you know, a quarterback and and not just sort of stand pat with with the current situation. But you need one of those guys who is more of a playmaker, who's more dynamic. Jalen Hurts is dynamic. he does me exceptional with his legs right now he's second round quarterback right so like how will the vikings ever do that you know they do it they better get it right because they you know they try to do it a few times before and we all know all the seventh round picks uh and six round picks that spielman drafted over all those years that none of them really worked out but you know is there somebody out there that

could is you know. And the problem is also the Vikings are always good, like sort of average to pretty good. They're like right there. And so we talk about they're always like 16th to the 25th pick in the draft. And you don't get the – you know, Pat Mahomes fell to 10. And, again, Jalen Hurts is second round. So, you know, there's going to be guys out there.

And I do think that there are younger athletic quarterbacks who now have the throwing skill set that maybe they didn't have back a long time ago. And because of all the private coaching and things like that, it's just like there's, you know, kids are better shooting basketballs now than they were 40 years ago. Right. So same with quarterback play. You're getting more dynamic athletes playing quarterback that I think is where the Vikings need to go. And the question is, when when do they go in that direction or do they or do they go for another pocket passer? You know, but, you know, I don't know. The whole the whole situation with the Vikings quarterback situation is interesting. And I did love what they did this year. And of i i thought kevin o'connell did a great job i think he's got a great coach i think the vikings found themselves a good one and um

and you know i think the the organization long term is is in very good hands but uh the current situation at quarterback is a troubling is a tough one because it's something literally you and i've been talking about for five years or something like that. I don't know how many years it's been. Folks, maybe you've noticed people in your office with what looks like an open tall boy at their desk in the morning at work. Well, it's not a beer. It's more likely it's a can of liquid death, which sounds pretty crazy at first, but it's simply mountain water from the Alps. It's called liquid death because it will murder your thirst and kill plastic pollution, which does seem aggressive, but that's their mission. And they are donating 10% of profits

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No, it's, yeah, five years. You and I started doing radio together in 2018, and that was the the DeFilippo thing and I think the the irony of the Cousins situation is that I think he's a better quarterback now than he was in 2018 and that if you took Kevin O'Connell and Kirk Cousins and sort of sent them back in time to 2018 that team might be in the NFc championship again but you can't do that like because that team had a great defense and i think that the offense was better tailored to kirk cousins this year than maybe it has been in the past and i mean i think that stefanski did a very good job with it it's two different approaches but i think both of them work and

this one this one was more of a test case of like what what if you put a lot on his plate, but do it in a smart way? And I think we saw it work in, in a lot of ways. And also what if you actually pat the man on the back every once in a while, instead of letting the whole world know all the time that you don't trust them and things like that. So, you know, I did think that there was a lot that came out of that, that we learned about cousins and how good this could potentially be. But when you say potential about someone who's about to be 35 years old next season, that's where I get hung up. And also somebody who's going to have a $36 million cap hit, who is going to want a longer term extension more likely than not. This is where it gets muddy.

And last year we were talking about this is the year to draft the quarterback, let the quarterback sit, and then go on to next year. But then we came to realize there was only one first-round prospect in Kenny Pickett, and he had an up-and-down year. I was impressed by some stuff, but he wasn't a great prospect. He was drafted in the 20s. And then this year where now there's a bunch of first-round prospects that are those dynamic athletes, but there's a bunch of first round prospects that are

those dynamic athletes, but there's a ton of teams that want them. So, I mean, I guess I do think that the Vikings could do what Kansas city did to get my homes, which is trade up and give up a lot of for the future. But the rest of the roster really isn't in a spot to give up a lot for the future. So they really have to decide, are they going to just kind of play it out here and draft someone maybe in 2024 and hit the rebuild button? Or are they going to try to sign him again and build an actual

defense around him? But then if he doesn't play as well because he's older, you sort of are playing this game of whack-a-mole where you can't quite get the timeline right. I think that timelines in the NFL are everything. And this is one of the hardest timelines to make work, you know? It is. It's probably, you know, you and I have sort of been having this conversation for years of like what to do. He's expensive, but he's pretty good but how do you you know what what you need is for him to be cheap is what you what you need you need to be 15 million dollars a year or something like that so you can like load up on the defense like the

rookie contracts i mean there's such advantage with rookie contracts now. If you find a good one and you're paying them $2 or $3 million a year, Brock Purdy's $800,000 this year, by the way. So you find the right offense and the right quarterback, and they're young. You can love your defense. And Kirk's not cheap. He's expensive. He's no longer in the top two or three. It doesn't seem like anymore as far as pay, but he still has a high salary cap cap and he feels like he can play for years to come and i'm sure he can and he'd be an

upgrade for a lot of teams in the national football league looking for an experienced quarterback he's played a lot of games he he has that great ability of availability like he is almost never hurt he's out there all the time and does exactly what the coaches want for the most part. And again, the professionalism with the media and all those types of things. So he, but he's not going to be transformative. And I think as, you know, as a Vikings fan, man, it'd be nice to have that transformative guy. It just would. It's just like a whole different world. Like Kansas City is a whole different city because Patrick Holmes is there, you know, and it's, it makes the conversations fun. Did you see that play?

Holy cow, this kid is something else. And they do, they say it every week at the coffee shops. And I think that it'd be more fun, more interesting to talk about because I think that it would make you feel like there's great possibility out there for the Vikings franchise. And now you just sort of feel like there's the ceiling, unfortunately. And no one wants to feel like they have a ceiling on their favorite football team. Right. No, that's and I think that's the feeling after a first round out that this was the year to be different than they've been before. And now that it wasn't, I think it's a real cold splash of water for Vikings fans because all year long it was like, this is the one, this is the one chance per decade.

You were on one of those teams with Brett Favre. Like for most teams, it's one shot every five years or every decade where you get one of those teams that things go right and everyone's healthy. And then you fall apart to a team that wasn't that good. And I think that that's that's that's a hard thing to look at and even the tone of the end of your press conference for them it was sort of uncomfortable because like they want to celebrate that they had a great first season with Quasey and Kevin O'Connell and I totally agree with you I think they've got their coach

for a long time and Kevin O'Connell to go forward with, but they're going to have to probably be patient at times with O'Connell because there might be some less successful seasons on the way, unless there's some brilliant analytical plan that I can't see or figure out, which maybe there is, maybe Casey's, you know, going to go through his first off season with some real radical ideas. But I'm not sure sure what direction you can go to build a stronger team next year than you had this year. And if you can't do that around Cousins, then you're probably going to kind of regress back

to where you were before. So I think they're in a very difficult situation where if they can draft a quarterback this year, that maybe they should and have that guy sit through the final year of Cousins deal and then go forward after that. But it's sort of easier than said than done when you're drafting in the in the 20s. So I was going to. Yeah, well, but it is it is possible and you can't hit a home run if you don't swing for the fences.

And it's that time, I think, to swing for the fences. And if you draft a guy, even at the end of the first round and maybe he's supposed to be a second rounder, but they don't have I mean he has to be the guy who says I can make that guy into a great player and he's got to find him. And it's hard to do. And you have to be right when everyone else is wrong. But usually, I mean, the Patriots were wrong five times before Tom Brady, you know, they should draft him the first round. So not that genius is either. You know, I could, I could transition this

you to the San Francisco 49ers. And now we start talking about Brock Purdy because there is a kid that I went out here. He was a freshman, by the way. I was like, this kid's incredible. The throws he was making as a freshman. Kids got balls out there, like making these crazy throws and running around.

And I remember when I was a freshman, I was so like nervous and stiff and couldn't throw the ball very well. And this kid's out there making plays. I saw it for three and a half years at Iowa State. So that whole thing of how he ended up with the 49ers and now he's playing so well. If Quasey wants to look at a franchise, that defense is loaded.

So any quarterback you put in there is going to have a chance to be successful. And so the Vikings up to the need by the way, it's the defense. I mean, that's the thing. And I think a cheap quarterback can build the defense and do it pretty quickly. I mean, if they do extend Justin Jefferson, you could think about the position you can put a future quarterback in. You get the best receiver in the league, a left tackle and a right tackle who are both stars. You can draft a couple of receivers,

add them in free agency, and then you're giving your, like the most valuable positions and head coach with a good offensive system. You're giving whatever quarterback a great situation. I think what we always find with these young quarterbacks, Jalen Hurts, this goes for, Brock Purdy, it goes for, situation just means so much to what you're dropped into. But the situation you're dropped into

is coach number one, but two is like, well, you might be dropped in a situation that because of your low salary is a good situation, right? Your, your, your cheapness creates possibly a better situation for you to be successful. You have to think about that, too. You know, like there's two aspects of the coach and like the salary cap situation, how good the team is and all those things. There's a whole bunch of variables to it. But Brock Purdy couldn't have landed in a better situation and all around. We could we could deep dive into that.

Yeah, let's talk about that. So you had an opportunity to work with him. And course you watched his entire career at iowa state and i guess what everyone always wants to know when somebody emerges out of nowhere is like is this for real i mean we went through this with case keenum and everything else like is this for real or when it's a seventh round pick and sometimes people never get over your draft status i remember once upon a time people wanted to uh trade br Brady for, to keep Matt Castle as the quarterback of the New England Patriots, because they were like, well, Brady's been kind of a fluke and a product of the team. So they should just move on. Of course, that was a very bad take. But what is it about Brock

Purdy that's allowed him to step in? because when I was watching those practices back when the Vikings practiced against them in training camp, I was very surprised at how he got the ball out. And this is a crazy thing. It's like, what's the number one thing for me to be able to tell whether a quarterback's got it or not? Just gets rid of the ball. With Kellen Mond in practice, it would be like, drop back, look around, where do I go? What do I do? I'm not real. And then you're sacked. And with Purdy, it was like, drop back, hit the back foot and the ball was out. And I was like, Oh, okay. This is not something you see from a seventh round rookie very often. But when you were working with him a little bit leading up to the draft, I mean,

I guess, what did you learn about his personality? I think after his freshman year in college was the first time I worked with him. I went up to Ames and we watched film. We may have thrown a little bit on the field, but we watched film. And then I think I did another time maybe for his senior year. And then before he came out for the draft. So they play a Clemson bowl game. I don't know, a week later, he and I are on some zoom sessions together. And I'm I really don't need to watch his film. I've been watching it for four years in a lot of ways. Right. So I want to teach him NFL film. And the very first team that I put on is the San Francisco 49ers.

That's who I, that's Kyle Shanahan. Also the Rams, right. Cause the, you know, they're one of the best teams in the NFL. So I have this, you know, the, I have the library from like last year. So there's a couple of teams and or quarterbacks that I like to watch. And then I, when I, when I watch these games there's so much to talk about. So I do this thing where it's like unscripted. I don't have like a catalog of all the information we have to go through we watch football because there's so much to talk about i could sit there behind uh you know behind the quarterback and looking at the defense and talking about like 15 different things we can talk protections we don't have to talk about the play that happened we can talk all

the possible in this this is what this coverage you see this coverage right here this is you know cover three and describe all the rules to it and I can draw on the screen like a telestrator and he's down in Jacksonville working with my, my throwing partner, Will Hewlett. And so we did this, I don't know, five, five times or something. And I do think I'm, I'm, I'm hopeful. And he, I talked about a little bit at his pro day of that NFL language and terminology. And how much that when he went to his All-Star game, but really when he went to the Combine and then his private workout after that. And when coaches would sit him down and talk about football, I talked in that language of that offense.

Because maybe it's not Kyle that offense because it's, maybe it's not Kyle, but maybe it's Atlanta. Well, it's a similar language, right? Or Green Bay or whatever team that could draft him. If you can teach him one language, teach the language that feels like it's just spreading throughout the National Football League, not only the language, but the fundamentals of that offense. And so, you know, as it turned out,

he gets drafted in the seventh round by San Francisco. Pretty incredible. And on top of it, by the way, you know, as it turned out, he gets drafted in the seventh round by San Francisco. Pretty incredible. And on top of it, by the way, I actually, I was thinking about this the other day. I was talking to Mike Silver, who, you know, he covers San Francisco Chronicle, I think, out there now. And always worked for various things, Sports Illustrated and stuff. And we talked about just how lucky that, you know, Brock Purdy was to get drafted out there. Anyway, as you watch film, we broke down defense as an offense. I talked that Shanahan offense.

And for them to be drafted by them. Oh, yeah, that Brian Greasy ends up being the quarterback's coach. Now, Brian and I played together. I've known him since like 2003. He and I were teammates. And he had come from who? Gary kubiak's offense in denver right so there's like a whole like sort of circle here that he got himself into which is perfect like three people all talking the same language uh and kyle one of the best minds in the game on top of it an absolutely loaded defense and really good running game and

great play design and great skill position players on offense that's perfect for his skill set which really is accuracy and playmaking that's what he is accurate and he's a playmaker and um that's that type of team they're not a throw at 60 yards down the field team like patrick homes it's a little five yards and get the ball to Debo and Brock gets it out quick. His quick release is all because of his, you know, he's a baseball player and his dad is a baseball player and they grew up watching Dan Marino. So it was all about this sort of quick release. He's almost like a second baseman out there more than, you know,

like a third baseman or shortstop at the cannon. Right. So he knows how to dish and he's super accurate. You watch a lot of his throws. They're right in the chest. Sometimes he's a little late with throws. He likes to sort of see a guy come open, and that's where he gets in trouble. He's just a step late sometimes, but he's in the perfect situation there in San Francisco, and it's been a lot of fun to watch.

So did you see the play where Iyuk dropped it in the back of the end zone that he made he rolled around like one of the best plays of the year like with you know but that was the whole thing when he got drafted there i was like jimmy garoppolo can't do i've seen brock pretty for three and a half years in college jimmy g uh doesn't make the plays that brock makes and when jimmy g's on the run sometimes he throws a bad ball just like into the dirt. And I just saw Brock's accuracy for so long, you know, where he got, where he'd get in trouble

is he's hanging on the football and trying to scramble around and make a play. And he ends up throwing the ball into a crowded area. But the guy is an absolute playmaker. And I've always said, he's, you know,

he's sort of like, he's got a little sort of Russell Wilson aspect and Wilson's got a much bigger arm. But as far as a guy, when Russell was younger couldn't make plays in small space and had great awareness of people around him and no fear the kid plays with no fear uh yeah that's sort of incredible to me and and obviously you

see his teammates just just love him just love how he's come in here as the third guy and and he's playing great and he's gonna i don't know don't know, might have a 15 year NFL career and make hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, you know, if you're the four, if you're the Minnesota Vikings, would you rather have Brock Purdy or Kirk Cousins? Right. I think that's you'd rather, I would rather have Brock Purdy. I think he's a playmaker and he's a guy that at that crunch moment and sometimes he doesn't, but he gives you an opportunity, gives himself an opportunity with his savviness to make plays

that at crunch time, sometimes the game has to go over to the players and the players have to go out there and make it happen. Same with basketball, same with all great sports. It's not the play called, it's the guys out there who are making it happen. You know what amazed me? Again, I'm not saying I called it with the guys out there who are making it happen you know what amazed me or again i'm not saying i called it with brock purdy i'm just saying that i did text you and i was like kind of impressed with him early on it's all i'm saying like you didn't look because most of these guys in these preseason games who are seventh round picks look kind of like a joke but what was really

impressive is they they talk about it like commanding an offense, right? And it's sort of something you know when you see where someone is getting everyone lined up at a good pace and then knowing what to do and everyone seems organized. And I remember this from the Gruden camps that he used to look at the other players and their body language after plays. And if they were looking around like, wait, I was supposed to be where? What was I supposed to do? That's usually on the quarterback because the quarterback has to get everybody lined up and give everybody their directives and make adjustments and everything else. But, I mean, obviously you have done this. I would love you to speak to what it means to command an offense.

And just as a side note, I think that, like, Kirk Cousins is one of the best that I've ever seen at it. Like, he just has everything right, like lined up. Where's everybody got to go? What everybody's got to do? There's the only time they're ever like looking around is if maybe they feel like you should have thrown it into double coverage and it's a number one wide receiver.

But I feel like that is maybe the top skill of a like baseline. Can you play in this league? And he just pretty had it right away they threw him into a game out of nowhere and it was like i'm in i'm running this offense you just don't see that very often well there's a couple things there's language which takes time to learn and i think brock had a little advantage there coming into the situation already knowing some at least some of the language um so i think that has a lot to do with it. Other things are people, this is very real. People process information differently at different

speeds. Physical information, mental information, emotional information, people process at different speeds. Barack processes information really, really quickly. that's physically out there okay physically out there um but there's another aspect of how people think conceptually some guys really struggled with concepts you almost had to tell a receiver you have to run the dig dig route you have to run the comeback route they they struggled with when i said this on this side automatically they had something on the other side they just struggled with that quarter said this on this side, automatically they had something on the other side. They just struggled with that. Quarterbacks do too at various levels, but others can go, you know, double right, zebra right,

three zebra arches, halfback wide, kill to, you know, double right, zebra right, 18 stretch. And they can just do it really, really quickly. And they can see how the information goes. And then they can communicate it with confidence to their teammate in very clear terms. Clarity of that communication. Yeah, it's the quarterback. You're supposed to be a very clear, sort of precise speaker and deliver of that information. And some guy just struggle with it. And and that's just a very, very real thing.

I don't know if it has to do with like, it's not smarts per se, because smarts is just like convoluted, you know, word that means a lot of different things. Right. But there's this various types of processing of information that, you know, some quarterbacks have really, really well, and some guys take some years and years to learn to learn. So what is that play call? What do you mean? The last one? Yeah, the one that you shot. Oh, double right, zebra right, three jet zebra arches,

halfback wide, kill to double right, zebra right, 18 stretch. Yeah, what is that? What is that? What's going to happen? What am I supposed to do? All right. There's a two by two zebra receivers in the slides going to the right. And he's going to run, it's going to do? All right. There's a two-by-two. Zebra receivers in the slot is going to the right, and he's going to run.

It's going to look like triple seam. He's going to break across. His face really almost looks like a slant. I'm going to go one to him, two to the tight end who's collecting the mic, working a shell across with man zone principles to a short comeback on the left side with a halfback wide. If they're in the wrong coverage or wrong whatever predetermined, we're just going to double right, zebra right,

and run 18 stretch to the running back. It's a simple game, right? Simple game. Simple game. Okay, last thing for you. This was the year of the backup slash journeyman quarterback. I mean, so many. Of course, Brock Purdy is in this conversation as well.

He's not a journeyman yet or anything, but like a quarterback who comes out of nowhere as qb3 other than brock because you were invested in that and worked with him uh what was your favorite backup quarterback situation story uh of the entire year because i think there were almost 70 quarterbacks who got in games that play this year i love cooper rush early in the year you know that was fun he had a nice nice run there earned himself many years uh in the nfl um you know um i don't know i'm trying to think of the most memorable performance of the backup quarterbacks this i mean gino of course kind of proven the haters wrong g Geno. So Geno is, you know, it's Geno is a great story of kid who had talent.

I don't think it was very well coached early, bad situation. I think the Jets was a bad organization more at that time. Didn't like the offense. Probably had a big jump of what his college offense it was to the NFL. And, but if you just stick around long enough and you do have those physical of what his college offense was to the NFL. But if you just stick around long enough and you do have those physical skills, you learn so much about football eight years in, nine years in, ten years in. You just do.

You know so much more about football and life when you're past 30 years old, I feel like, and now your physical skills might decline a little bit. But you can hit this sweet spot where you have these guys get really good, like sort of the second half of their career or good enough to be a good start in the league. And that's sort of the Geno Smith story. It's a great story. And you had, let's see, Sam Darnold returning to Carolina to win some games and PJ Walker got in a few after being an XFL quarterback in one. I mean, there was just so many. How about Baker Mayfield? How many teams do you think Baker Mayfield is going to play for by the time it's all said and done?

But he earned himself because if he had gone to L.A. and acted like a jerk and played horribly, he might even just end up out of the league. But it's amazing how sort of thin the margins are. He goes there and plays well. So now he's going to have a job probably for a long time. Definitely have a job. And again, like, you know, I think McVay did a really good job with him.

I mean, imagine that. He comes in. Now it helped that Stefanski runs similar language when he was in Cleveland. So it wasn't too hard to pick up. But McVay knows how to sometimes have winning quarterbacks. He's pretty good at that. And he had pretty good luck with Jared Goff. And obviously had luck with Stafford and had luck with Baker Mayfield.

Yeah, for sure. Well, Sage, it was great to get together with you again. It had been a little while. I hope you enjoy the rest of the playoffs. I'm sure that you'll be traveling around and maybe watch some games and some

sunny locations and so forth as you so often do. This is correct. Miami this weekend. That's correct. I never quite know where you're going often do. This is correct. Miami this weekend. That's correct. I never quite know where you're going to be every time we talk. Well, I'll let you know. I'll let you know next time in Minneapolis, probably the summertime, if anything. If you looked outside my window right now, that would be a good choice,

but you know all about it. So anyway, well, thanks for your time as always. Glad to get to you together, to get together with you again, and we will do it again soon, man. All right, Matthew. Thanks for having me on.