Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Former Viking QB Sage Rosenfels talks Mac Jones, Justin Fields and what makes a winning quarterback

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

For this week's Friday roundtable, Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom get together with former NFL QB Sage Rosenfels. He dives deep into his experience with QB collective working with Justin Fields and what he's seen from Mac Jones. Sage explains the difficulty with judging "processing" and how he evaluates a QB from a technical perspective. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, do you feel like everything these days is go, go, go? It's non-stop from work to friends to family and a million pressing issues. Sometimes you just need to take a playoff and hit the reset button. That's when you reach for a Coors Light. It's made to chill. Hey, it's that time of year in Minnesota again to get out on the lake, go to the cabin, sit back, watch some baseball. Coors Light is the perfect refreshment to chill during these summer months. There's only one beer out there that's made to chill.

The mountains on the bottles and cans turn blue when your beer is cold, and that way you know it's time to chill. Hit that reset button with some mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, and cold packaged. It's literally made to chill. It's crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. Coors Light is the one you should choose when you need to unwind, when you want to hit the reset button, reach for the beer that is made to chill.

Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hello and welcome to a very special Friday Roundtable presented by South District and Symbol, your stock market for sports. Matthew Collar, Sam Ekstrom, as always, and joining us, a man who has separately worked with both of us in the past, Sage Rosenfels, former Vikings quarterback. What is going on, Sage?

I feel like we're having a podcast reunion here of various podcast hosts, partners in my past. Now, you guys are working together. Pretty amazing stuff there. And I don't know how many conversations I've had with both of you guys about all sorts of various Vikings. I mean, and it still is. Like, who's the guard they need?

It's still, we've been talking, me and Sam have been talking about that for like six years. And you guys are probably still talking about that. So, yeah, it's fun having, for the first time, having a podcast show, whatever, with the two of you. Yeah, the stars have aligned incredibly here. And I think we can attribute our career ascension stage to you for being the glue that sort of, like, you were the rising tide that pulled us up the ladder. I remember, like, our defining podcast show was, like, day three of our show. We had to react to Teddy Bridgewater's knee injury, which sort of set the tone for the whole thing because it was like the 2016 season and the collapse that ensued and all of that nonsense. We analyzed it all for hours and hours. We've

spent a lot of time together. And I feel like when that happened, I was in Ames, Iowa, like visiting the Iowa State staff or something. And then I was getting the car to drive up to Minnesota. And I think that's when we actually had the emergency podcast. I was on the road. And, you know, that's the thing about podcasts. You can sort of record them or do them pretty much wherever you are. And it does allow me to have a I guess a fairly free lifestyle to be here, to be there. I don't have to go in office every day.

And the podcast world is definitely makes that possible. So, yeah, there's been some interesting conversations and emergencies along the way with both of you. Yeah, well, I think our work together peaked at the NFL Combine in 2019, or when you called the firing of John DiFilippo weeks before because they weren't running enough bootlegs. It is interesting to have these various conversations with the both of you. And shoot, when Sam and I started, I'm not even sure if like Kyle Shanahan had been named a head coach in San Francisco yet, right? And then all that has happened since then. And me probably talking about that scheme, what makes that scheme good,

what allows an average quarterback like me to actually be pretty good in that scheme, and, you know, what teams are doing it, what teams aren't, and then various coordinators that the Vikings have had along the way, and quarterbacks, and how they've played, and how that's all sort of come to fruition over the last five or six years. And I'll give Sage another hat tip. I think during our show when, you know, Kevin Stefanski was probably the tight ends coach at that point,

a receivers coach. And Sage was saying, Kevin Stefanski is a future offensive coordinator. And this is two, three years before he actually got the job. And now look at him, Sage. He's the coach of a playoff team in Cleveland. Yeah, well, that's sort of like, you know, picking Tom Brady in the sixth round. I said he'd be a good offensive coordinator. I didn't think he'd win Coach of the Year as a rookie during a pandemic of the Cleveland Browns.

And so, you know, I was a chance to be around a lot of football coaches. And some of these guys were young and you could just tell the guys that I think were learning guys that could learn the game, but also have those people skills, those leadership skills, those sort of common sense skills that could And, you know, Kevin Stefanski, Kyle Shanahan, I knew he'd be a head coach. But also very much, I think, Kyle, a head coach who's very active. Like, there's no way I don't think Kyle could ever let go of designing a lot of these plays and calling a lot. That is very much who he is. I could see even Kevin Stefanski, if he had the right guy, taking that step back and just being that sort of leader of the ship because he has that type of personality. So, yeah, I guess I'd show it. I got lucky there. I was doing stock.

There should be some sort of website where, like, you can pick coaches, college pros, and you get points for if they become head coaches and how successful they are. They're like stocks in actual coaches. And then, I don't know, trade actual coaches. And then I don't know, trade Bitcoin or something involved. I don't know. Something to do with an NFT. Just get like a trading card NFT.

I was doing a podcast about NFTs and Bitcoin the other day. That was interesting. Side note, I think I'm going to not buy stock in the Eagles coach who was doing rock, paper, scissors with some of his players in the players in the draft meeting. So anyway, before we move on to the conversation, I just want to say that Sam and I both have learned so much from you, Sage, along the way that we greatly appreciate that and apply it poorly when we have our conversations

about quarterbacks. So it is greatly appreciated all the time that you've put in to not only like podcasting with us and having a good time, but also giving us an understanding of how all of this works. Yeah. And I guess I feel like with the Vikings, I've had a pretty good feel for, you know, that, that, that position quarterbacks in particular, but the style of offenses they've been running in the last few years, you know, since me retiring in 2012.

You know, I don't have to sit there and watch a ton of football to sort of know what I, to see what I see and know what I know and remember plays. And, you know, that's what I was probably trained to do. You know, you spend five years in college and then 12 years in the NFL. You'll learn so much about this thing that when you're done playing really doesn't have that much value unless you're in the media game or you become a coach in some way or, you know, a trainer of some sorts or whatever. Right. But there are more avenues now. You got the J.T. O'Sullivan's out there making great videos, you know, grinding the film, grinding the tape, as they say.

But it's nice to have different ways to try to express what I do know. And obviously working with you guys has allowed me to do that. I'll give you one more. You saw five minutes of Vikings training camp practice, and you said that Jake Browning would beat out Kyle Sloater for a job in camp because he was making the right reads. So none of us have any clue what reads somebody's supposed to make. But you knew the base plays were like, oh, yeah, well, he's running it right and throwing it to the right people. And the other guy isn't, which is what the team is actually looking for.

Yeah. Yeah. But there's sometimes there's also like body language. Like there's these things that, you know, especially when you're going to be the practice squad quarterback or the third string quarterback, more than like the backup. I mean, that's a role that allows an organization to take chances, but it also allows some organizations to say, you know, we really just want a guy who could come and execute for us if we need to, a good presence in the locker room, somebody that's very likable. The last thing we need is any sort of waves coming from that practice squad third string quarterback spot.

That is like you can control that as a head coach and as a GM to not want, you know, to have that sort of like, you know, be seen and not heard. How can I help type of third string quarterback or practice squad quarterback? And I could almost sense that just in that practice of just, again, sort of like that body language. And then obviously some of the stuff that we all saw with some, some of the various quotes online and things like that. And, you know,

I don't know. It's what I did for a long time, and I guess it's what I know. I like to think more than most people. Sage, I know you do QB coaching through QB Collective, which is an awesome setup, just, you know, grooming young quarterbacks. Have you had the chance to come across any of this year's prospects through that? Because I know that in the past you have had the opportunity to work across any of this year's prospects through that? Because I know that in the past you have had the opportunity to work with some draft prospects. I believe it was Anthony

Gordon last year. Anything with QB Collective 2021 that has sort of informed you on this year's draft class? Yeah, so Ian Book I worked with for a week and I also worked with him right before the pandemic started. He was at my house when Tom Hanksanks Forrest Gump got uh tested positive for COVID um and and sort of watching him having to deal with the head coach of Notre Dame calling him and discussing what's going to happen and what are people going to do and you know no one was going back to school like so anyway then then in January uh he and I worked together for a week down in Jackson. We'll get him ready for the senior bowl. So I have some, I have, you know, thoughts about Ian of course. And, and then, you know, of course,

I study some of these guys, but with quarterback collective, Justin Fields, the guy that I did work with my first year working, you know, quarterback collective stuff, camp in LA. I think it was the second year they did the camp um i i love going to these camps and not knowing who the best players are i love not knowing like who's the kid that's going to usc or alabama or notre dame or whatever and usually over the over the course of the couple days or a day i sort of get a feel for who guys are i'll ask them hey what what's that guy's deal and then i get to know but i actually like going or the course of the couple days or a day, I sort of get a feel for who guys are. I'll ask them, hey, what's that guy's deal?

And then I get to know. But I actually like going in knowing very little. And then I get to just work with them and teach them and not have some judge. I'll go, he's better than this guy because he's going to Alabama and this guy is just going to Illinois or something like that. But Justin Fields was a player that, as soon as I saw him throw,

I'm like, this guy can really throw. He throws just a beautiful, straight football, natural throwing motion, and quite an athlete. He was quiet when I sort of hung out with him a little bit. I tried to steal a little time with him after the second day. There was like a break from the indoor meetings. maybe it was a lunch thing, and he would just sort of sit and I sat next to him and we talked. And he had been to 12 football camps that summer, 12 football camps, right? So these are all these like one day, they're really recruiting visits,

right? And I never went through anything like that. And so he and I sort of had this discussion I was like I'm sorry you have to do that like that sucks the way the system is it seemed better back in the day when you know they just found you you didn't have to like go chase them you know or whatever it's you know an odd thing but but he was you know he's a nice kid but yeah he wasn't a loud annoying I mean you get all the types that's the thing is at these camps you know he's a nice kid but yeah he wasn't a loud annoying i mean you get all the types that's the thing is at these camps you get to see these kids hanging out with each other it's not a stressful environment we're not rating them and winning some award afterwards like some of these other camps we're just teaching them and so you get to sort of see who are the guys who are

really workers who are the guys who sort of screw around a little bit and who are the guys who like have a good time but they're also working and they're they're enjoyable to be around you know that that's like that moxie that you sort of like about the kid you know what i mean um and you know with justin fields that he you know just physically it's i think you know throwing the football that ball really came out nice it was like these straight you know perfectly spinning throws really like through a wobbler at all and then you do see the physical four four three skills of the combine so i don't know what his uh i don't want to use the word mental capacity right but i don't know what his uh um how he processes information and all because they do tests for those types of things too i don't know how he processes information.

They do tests for those types of things too. I don't know what those numbers are with him. Seemed like a very smart kid to me. I've watched enough Ohio State football that they have an interesting offense, but they are pushing the ball down the field a lot, and they're reading guys as they run down the field. I think it probably, for me, would be a harder offense for me to be in and like you know he was about 40 touchdowns in one pick two years ago and still very good numbers last year not as good but you got to think he's he's accurate down

the field um like Russell Wilson right he's got a really strong arm he's a great athlete um and to put up those types of numbers, it wasn't Josh Heupel type stuff where he just like, you know, throwing a little wide receiver screens and little fade routes to guys. And it didn't seem like it was that type of offense over there at Ohio State. So I got to think that he has a lot of the ingredients to be a good NFL quarterback. But again, you know, I've never seen him in an NFL style offense. What they do at Ohio State did not seem very NFL-y to me, very few teams. So you do always wonder how that can sort of translate to the NFL level. or he was there and I just didn't know who he was, you know, that which would surprise me. But I definitely have now looked back and seen pictures of him and try to go,

did I remember that kid when he was in camp or not? But he didn't look very rememberable when he was 17 years old. He was pretty skinny, just sort of like an average sort of looking kid. Didn't look like he had some great throwing motion. Watching him throw the last few days, watch a little tape on him, really has great feel for the game and very accurate. I love accurate quarterbacks, and they do push the ball down the field enough,

but does have really good feel. And the way he sort of moves through and progresses through his progressions looks very natural to him. I don't know if he's been coached really well on that. I would assume he has. So Steve Sarkeesian, so then you've got to go into this whole world. Steve Sarkeesian, he's a very good coach.

But when he got to Atlanta, they were running all these things that Matt Ryan liked from Kyle Shanahan. So to see now Matt Jones doing some of those things that Matt Ryan was doing six years ago, whatever, in 2016 Atlanta type of thing, he does those things like a veteran quarterback does, right? So that makes me know like he can do these NFL type things very well he is in a sense processing information but he also looks like he's done that before he's made those types of reads that I've seen NFL offenses now do and maybe Justin Fields has not done those as much right so that's where you get these really interesting evaluations on two very different athletes but two guys I think will be good nfl quarterbacks

um but they're but they are different and um i you'd think they'd both be pretty good but definitely mac jones isn't some great so people like you should the 49ers draft mac jones because he's like kurt cousins i wouldn't trade three first rounders for kurt cousins i wouldn't trade two i probably wouldn't i would not trade one first rounders for Kirk Cousins. I wouldn't trade two. I probably wouldn't. I would not trade one first rounder for Kirk Cousins. That's not me personally. I want a guy who will like make everybody better on the football team. Even Matt Ryan, who was the MVP. Would I trade three first rounders for Matt Ryan? Probably not. Probably not. And because I'm looking for, he never had a big arm. He never had great mobility, all these things. Very good player, MVP in some really good years,

but not a transcendent player, in my opinion. I think Kyle's looking for a transcendent player, which leads me to believe that because of the athleticism and probably arm strength too, that it would be Justin Fields at this number three spot. That leads me to that spot. But I don't know if he's like so in love with the guy that has, is doing these things that he sort of has, you know, he knows his advanced algebra that you see in Mac Jones do, and that's who he really likes. And you know, that's what's so interesting,

I think, to me about this draft and this 49ersers pick is I can see why Kyle could like them both a lot it was very funny to see the internet light on fire when you responded to I think it was Jeff Schwartz saying come on he's not going to take back Jones that everyone's what does Sage know what is that no it's like Sage doesn't know okay Kyle Shanahan wasn't texting you Sage you're the only one I'm going to tell it's Justin Field Field. That was funny. No, it's interesting. I'm pretty connected with a lot of those guys who coach on that staff, obviously, and having those relationships. But that's the last thing I would do. I'm not interested in getting in their business and leaking some story and the end of those relationships.

So I don't even ask. That's not my spot. But, yeah, it is interesting. The draft is hope. The draft is nothing more than hope for all 32 teams. The worst team in the draft goes, hey, we got that receiver now for Jamie Burrow, and then we got another guard. We could use a guard because he's going to need something to give us a little hope for next year or the year after.

Like we're building something here. And that's what the draft season is. And somebody texted me this morning, like, what do you think all these quarterbacks? I'm like, the best one will probably be a fifth rounder. There'll be a fifth rounder, a fourth rounder, you know. Ian Book, maybe. Maybe it's Ian Book because of my tutelage, you know, ends up being the best transcendent player, right?

Like the Tom Brady or the Kurt Warner or the whatever that, you know, my year, it was Drew Brees, who was the first pick of the second round. You know, I guess Michael Vick was the first pick, but you just don't know year after year who those players are going to be and who is who's going to be like sort of that guy. There's usually one or two in a draft and the rest are, you know, backups and they might have 10 year careers. But, you know, I mean, you know, we'll just sort of see how that that that plays out. You know what I mean? But, you know, you like to think there's going to be a couple of this draft. Everyone's been for the last last, like, two years, people have been talking about this draft for quarterbacks. Like, hey, that year there's going to be a whole bunch of really good kids.

By the way, I didn't bring up Trey Lance just because I haven't watched him yet. I can't, for whatever reason, get a hold of that all 22 tape from, like, last year or whatever. You played one game this past year or something, right? So I don't know much about that kid you know at all but i do know north dakota state quarterbacks have have been pretty good pretty uh fine-tuned as they got to the nfl they they must coach and they do coach more nfl style concepts up there and so when those guys do make that jump it's not as big as the guys who are you know the the air raid offense uh of washington state or something like that hey everyone anybody who listens to the show knows that sam and i may not be scratch golfers

but we love to have a great time playing golf and that's why we have partnered with birdie golf in woodbury birdie golf is hands down the best indoor golf experience you will ever have. There are eight of the world's best golf stimulators where you can sharpen your swing. And luckily for us, never lose a ball. But it's not just for hardcore golfers. Birdie Golf is for everyone. Bring the family, play arcade-style games while dining on great food in an upscale and comfortable environment. They have private bays for social distancing, a luxury lounge for private events, outdoor patio, and scratch kitchen.

You'll want to try the whiskey or beer float flights and the best boneless wings in the Metro. Make golf a night out or the place to hold parties, events, fundraisers, even your fantasy football drafts. Check out Birdie Golf at 494 in Valley Creek in Woodbury, just a short drive from anywhere in the Twin Cities metro, and at birdiegolf.com, or you can call 651-998-2200 today. I'll see you there. Folks, the football offseason is off and rolling,

and SodaStick has you covered with Minnesota sports-themed gear. Some of my favorite football designs that you have to check out include the Chuck Foreman Spin Doctor gear. You can commemorate Randy Moss' disgusting act on a shirt or a hoodie. And if you're old school, check out the Purple People Eaters design as well. Go to SodaStick.com and check them all out. If you use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER, you can get free shipping on all your Minnesota sports-inspired gear. All of their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and

hoodies. You will love it. Plus, keep your eyes and ears out for our giveaways going on on this show as well on social media follow them at soda stick co on twitter and at sodastick.com for your original minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping so let me ask you something about you know when you're watching these guys are trying to figure out who can play and who can't play the thing the the words processing come up all the time and uh you had another twitter interaction where you tweet out like look most of you people don't know how to actually watch film and so many people got defensive but the answer is no that's right

that's right that's why i follow on twitter people who do the few people who do that's why i text you and say hey what do you think happened here whose fault was that or whatever what was supposed to happen and uh same with you know Jeremiah Searles when we watch offensive line tape because like that's what you did your whole life and so um I just want to know from you when you're watching a quarterback like how do you even get a sense for that without knowing exactly what the guy is taught which read he's supposed to make like how things are put together, because it really seems central to the criticism about Justin Fields. And my thing is, Sage, I just don't know if you can really figure this out from what they do in college, because it's

so different. And I remember at the combine, you had a couple of conversations with guys about like, it's just so much different in the NFL. We're not even really sure. So I guess, how do you like define that? And what are you looking for when you're trying to figure out if someone can quote process? Yeah. So yeah, that's the thing is you have no idea what they're being taught. You have no idea what their offensive coordinator is thinking or what he called and why and what he told them to read and, and you know,

what he understands about protections, you know, nothing really. You know, you watch it and you try to have a feel for it. And sometimes it is cringeworthy of like, who is the court? It happens a lot. Who is this coordinator? What is the quarterback supposed to do on this play? Right. As I watch something when I, you know, you can ask any good coordinator this NFL coordinator

when they watch other people's tape, they can tell what they're trying to get done here. Oh, I see this plays of this over here and for this over here, and this is what they're trying to do, and it didn't work out or whatever happens. There's a lot of college film where I have no idea what's going on. There's so many people running around. Offensive line play sometimes is very poor. It's very much the ball goes to quarterback, and he's back there sort of bouncing around and just sort of looking around and, you of line play sometimes is very poor. It's very much the ball goes to the quarterback and he's back there sort of bouncing around and just sort of looking around

and making it happen almost type of thing. It's just because the NFL game, the defensive linemen and the defensive ends are so good. That's what changes the game between college and the pros, in my opinion. That's where you have to be so much smarter and know so much more because the windows get so much smaller and the time you have is so much less. So you have to make a very,

very, very quick decision, which means you have to process information very quickly, back to sort of your question. And you can't always see that. And that's probably the hard thing. They are doing tests now. They are legitimately doing these various tests that people have that help you understand how you personally process information, how Matthew Collar and Sam Ekstrom process not just information you maybe read or see in some sort of weird light board, but like actually how you see things move and how your then body reacts to those things. It's very interesting. And we all just have different things. My son, you know, just did not like basketball as far as there's constantly things going on.

So process information is almost like not thinking at all and just reacting. You just know if you're a thinker, you're already behind the play, right? And football is sort of like that. But the ability to understand information, see what you're seeing, and then tell your body to react because of that and move on and anticipate. And those things are you don't really know until you, I think you don't really know until you actually get them. But I don't know. It's, I think the more the kids learn and have good teachers, the more you can understand how,

you know, they can, they'll be able to process information faster. If I can teach kids in high school fairly detailed coverages, four, two, three, one, two man, talk about all the different combinations, blitzes, and then when they get up there in high school and college, they'll be so much more prepared to process information and of why things work and what works versus different things when they get to the NFL level. So the earlier you can learn the game, which is what I am trying to do in my quarterback

collective stuff, I like to think that when you're older, you will be able to be a better player because you won't have to hold on to the ball more because you'll know exactly what the defense is trying to do. And then the ball, then next thing you know, you can put these balls in these really, really tight windows and you don't have to wait that extra half a second that you do in college to make sure he's open. You know what the rules are. You know what the defense is trying to do. And you can fit ball in the tiny, tiny windows to where the average fan goes, man, that, how do they make that throw through that window, right? That's all education of understanding how defenses work and then how their holes.

It's not like see and throw it all that much. If you can do this, see and throw it, too. That's even more amazing. Right. I mean, Brett Favre was a see and throw a guy forever, forever. And then over time, he actually started learning how coverages were probably fairly far down the line, it seems like to me, right? If he could have had that education earlier with that gunslinger, you know, but there's an aspect of the gunslinger mentality you love to have. You love guys who have guts and the ability to, like, see a play late and be like, ooh, I'm going to move around over here and just fire a ball into that spot, right? Sort of blind, because it's blind out there.

It really is. And so that is that combination of, like, good? Sort of blind, because it's blind out there. It really is. And so that is that combination of like good player to great player, the guy that can do both. Well, I'm chuckling at the thought of Sam Ekstrom and Matthew Collar doing the processing test, because my processing ability would be like dial-up modem, like something happens, and then here's Sam like dumbfounded, what do I do? But what you're speaking to is just a crazy amount of emphasis that needs to be put on the mental side of the game. And I'm curious, in your opinion, Sage,

how much is the mechanical evaluation a part of this draft prospect eval for these teams? Because, you know, maybe a guy's footwork is just a little off the arm angle the hand placement um in your experience like how quickly are NFL teams getting their hands on a guy and then telling them all right this is what we want you to do and do you do you think that process is sort of ongoing um throughout their rookie year trying to get the mechanics right? Yeah, so I think the mechanics matter. I think those like throwing coaches are definitely important. You want to be able to give yourself a chance.

I always compare it to basketball, but like if you have the correct shooting form and learn a few drills that help you be a more consistent in the same spot, whatever thrower, you'll be consistently able to hit the same target over and over and over again. And that's, that's key, right? You need to be an accurate quarterback. Baker Mayfield changed some of his throwing motion from his, I think it was almost between the combine and his, his pro day, two months later, you actually saw a significant change in all of his throws. He got with somebody and they worked on something that I believe was the right thing to do. And so they are looking at that, right?

In my opinion, Kirk has not a great throwing motion. There are things that he does that I think hold him back and make him less active. Throws to his left, flat routes to his left. How many times have you seen him miss that one? And there's a reason behind that. What is it? Just out of curiosity, what is the reason? For him, well, if you watch Kirk throw his – and this is just podcast or just video also?

I don't know. The listener just podcast, right? Just podcast. Yeah, well, show it then. Yeah, you can video it. or just video also i don't know what the listener just podcast just yeah well show it so so he sort of like leans a little bit too far to his left and his hips are no longer flat his hips his right hip goes up in the air and his right leg a lot of times comes over top of it like a baseball pitcher okay when you change that angle your shoulders a lot of times change too.

Now you've got this sort of thing where both the shoulders and the hips are leaning to the left, basically. And now you're trying to make an accurate throw. If you can keep those as flat as possible, and there's a few things in the throwing motion, a few drills you can do to try to do that. It helps you keep your shoulders flatter, keeps your hips flatter, keep your right foot in the ground. Now you need less space to throw. You can throw from a foam booth a little bit better. There's more torque involved. You know, the Tom Brady throw does as good as anybody with this.

And, but yeah, there's, the game has changed a little bit. There used to be back in the day, you're taught to bring that right leg around to be like, even with your left leg. But that now that's not really the case as much. And I, and it's because you don't want it coming out the gun. You don't have the space of a pitcher anymore. It's not pitching.

We're not doing that. You know, we have a very limited amount of area in there. And yes, I think that's that's his anyway trevor lawrence i think he leans a little bit to his left brings his foot around a little bit too much is right you know he's working out there jordan palmer i would assume jordan i don't agree probably on all the different aspects of the throw in motion i don't know what x's and o's they're doing out there but i I see that in his deal. I see what Zach Wilson's doing is what the new age quarterbacks are looking like.

I think he could be very much like the kid, Tyler Murray. I feel like they could have a similar game. I think that's the future of the game. A little more Doug Flutie action, but these small guys can create a lot of torque with their body and those throws that everyone blew up over as a pro day, I see 14-year-olds trying to make those throws.

I've been seeing it for the last few years. That wasn't stuff that I did growing up. So, yeah, there's different things. Justin Fields has a thing in his throwing motion that I am not a huge fan of from watching his college. It looks like it's gotten worse to me, not better. I thought he was a more natural thrower in high school. But he still is so accurate down the field.

Man, I'm hoping he has a really good career. He's a really good kid. I'm hoping he's got a good career. And then who else? I haven't seen – the North Dakota State kid looks like he's got a little hitch. Mac Jones is a very natural thrower. Mac Jones is a natural thrower. Again, if you ask Kyle Shanahan, what are you looking for,

and he'll post out – he'll say these five things he's looking for for a quarterback, one of those is natural thrower. And it might be like the second one, you know. There's something about that ball just coming out fluidly and naturally like a Steph Curry shot that's like it's it's just pure butter look at that thing there's just no wasted motion it is fluid when it's fluid it can be repeatable when there's hitches in it it changes changes to be a less repeatable throwing motion and by the way Peyton Manning terrible throwing

motion terrible throwing motion he he uh but he was so big and strong that he could sort of get away with it uh and he was it was so quick that's why the ball didn't come out great uh and it would wobble a lot of times is because his throwing motion was so sort of over the top and less sort of twisting and torquing he was sort of an over-the- ab cruncher, almost type of thrower. Right. And, and, but, you know, one of the all time greats too. Right.

So it's not just about the throw emotion. I think of anything, the mental stuff, all these guys can throw. But the mental stuff is like, who can, who can carry that weight? I think that is, that's really important to this draft process so when you talk about that I want you to speak to the two perspectives of sort of the making it from a character kind of angle because you were a backup quarterback for Eli Manning who you speak very highly of and I think of like how many quarterbacks have ever had more pressure coming into the NFL than Eli Manning not only does his dad pull the whole thing where he gets traded to New York, but you're the number one pick.

You're in New York for the New York Giants. I mean, you can't ask for more pressure. His career, like his brother, didn't start off perfectly. And then he gets it together as he goes along, wins two Super Bowls, and then you got a chance to be his backup quarterback. And I wonder what he does from just sort of his makeup and who he is perspective that can deal with that type of pressure. Because all these guys, if we have quarterbacks that go one, two, three, four,

I mean, that's four franchises who are going to look at you and say, you are the one who's supposed to take us to the promised land. I mean, think about how much San Francisco is giving up. If you're Justin Fields, you're not just the number one pick, you're three picks worth of a guy. And that comes along with an insane amount of pressure. That's what really took apart Ryan Leaf. I think that's taken apart a lot of guys that they, it's not just, can they handle X's and O's? Can they throw with the right motion? But it's also everything is sort of dumped on you from an entire franchise. So I was raised in a town of 300 people, grew up with the highest going town of 6,000.

You guys are from your spots in the world. All right. Our dads were not NFL quarterbacks. Correct. To grow up and see that big picture and see that world and be a part of it and knowing, and I'm sure how Archie dealt with it and understood the business side of it and sort of probably see the whole thing. You can't reteach that. You can't come in with a financial advisor or a motivation coach or a life coach and like create that. These guys grew up in it uh probably it's the same with like Sean McVay you know his dad wasn't a player or a coach but uh his you know his family was always involved

in the NFL world to have all those life experiences and then to become a good college football player and also have the older brother we remember Peyton too but Peyton's the older brother was dad you know what I mean so to have that person right in front of you and how they did their career, it's a huge advantage. It's an absolutely huge advantage to have that. And I think that's why probably Eli understood the big picture, also the small picture of like at the end of the day, it's just a football team.

You know, they sort of had that connection of where they sat and the whole thing and what their role was and how to deal with the media and and, you know, where to what to stress about. I think I think also to know it's if you're really good, this thing's a marathon. This thing is a marathon. Right. Even if it doesn't work out, you're not the greatest of all time or a Hall of Famer, if you can have a great backup career, you're going to have enough money to set yourself up and your kids up and your family up or whatever for life. And, like, so don't play the, you know, the sprint game of it's like this day, this week, this day. It's like a lifestyle and he learned that from his dad his family and i think that was a huge advantage with eli and payton and those guys uh to prepare them for the wild world which is nfl life it is it's a whole

different you know you don't really know what it is until you get out of it to be honest with you and you're like holy cow it is it is a whole different thing. You know, it's traveling circus in a lot of ways. And, and it's, everyone's interested in it. Everyone seems to be, not everybody, but a lot of people are just in quarterbacks and New York Giants. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a huge deal. It's a global type thing. And having any sort of education going into it is a big advantage. I did not have that. I did not have growing up on our half-acre organic farm with 50 chickens and making maple syrup and apple juice with, you know, three channels on TV.

It did not prepare me accurately probably for an NFL, to be perfectly correct, but in a lot of ways probably did. Like it's the, I think probably growing up in the country probably actually helped me to, to do that and have two older brothers and to run around and just do things physically. I'm sure helped me be a better athlete. So, you know, strengths and weaknesses everywhere, but definitely to have that experience is definitely a big strength.

Let me toss out a multiple choice to you, Sage, just so we can like establish where you stand sort of with regard to the Vikings and what they're going to do at quarterback. At number 14, you've got option A, Trey Lance is available. Option B, Mack Jones is available. Option C, you take somebody in the mid-rounds, whoever that might be, or you don't take a quarterback, Stan Pat, what are you doing if you're the Vikings brass in next week's draft? I think that you draft one of those two guys, Trey Lance and Matt

Jones. Those guys use your first rounder. Green Bay used your first rounder right i mean green bay used a first rounder uh last year with jordan love so i think with that that would be a no-brainer if one of those two guys is available you don't want to reach like they did with christian ponder and try to get a guy who's really not a first rounder and make them into a first rounder so they would have to see what their talent evaluation is on the all sort of the rest of the quarterback group and again there is a good chance that like one of the other guys might be the best of them all and that just might be the way it ends up going we don't know

but if i'm then i'm definitely drafting the quarterback in the first three rounds i'm trying to find the guy i just don't believe kirk'm trying to find the guy. I just don't believe Kirk is going to be the guy that brings him to the Super Bowl. He's not a transcendent player. He's not a guy that makes everybody better on the football team. And if you want to win a Super Bowl, you got to find that guy. And the only way to find him is to keep taking shots. And usually it's keep taking shots in the draft and hopefully get one.

But drafting guys continually in the draft and you know hopefully get one uh but drafting guys continuing the sixth and seventh round which has always been a rich strategy hasn't really worked and um it's been probably for decent backups or whatever but it really has they haven't had great success there i would be more aggressive and try to get somebody in the second or third round um so that they like that they can build and i would have him be a different quarterback i'd have him be a different quarterback I'd have him be I would like to have a Vikings quarterback be more athletic could throw good thrower but I'd like to have a different dimension there that Kirk definitely does not have and you know somebody that was a just a good at and the good thing about this draft is in more and more

quarterbacks just in general are fitting that profile. Guys that aren't just, that's what the scare, everyone's talking about Mac Jones because he really is just sort of the pocket passer. All the other guys look like and run around pretty good. So you'd like to think that there's one of these other guys that we haven't talked about that can do those things and might be a second or third runner. But I think in the first half of the draft, they need to get a quarterback. Hey, everyone. to get a quarterback. Using the promo code PURPLE, you will receive six months free of premium Purple Insider written content at purpleinsider.substack.com.

So go to simbowl.app, deposit $20 if you're a first-time user, six months free of our premium written content at Purple Insider. If you are not familiar yet with Simbowl, it is a new sports marketplace where you can trade shares of professional teams like stocks. So as we are fully into draft season, you're going to want to get in now with your team before their stock rises. Here's how it works. You buy stock of teams and when your teams win, you earn cash payouts that are instantly deposited. So check it out. Symbol.app. Follow them on Twitter at Symbol Exchange and check out the marketplace for sports. Hey, everyone. I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics.

And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America. And we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right?

They can ship perishable, non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have on-time delivery rate of over 99%. So if you're like them and you enjoy the show and you have shipping needs, check out scoutlogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. Well, let me give you your credit as a guy who was drafted in the fourth round and made yourself a decade-plus long career in the NFL because I was doing a little research. Since Kirk was drafted in 2012,

where there were two middle-round quarterbacks who became franchise quarterbacks. Only three out of 30 guys that were even drafted between the second and fifth round became anything like became starting quarterbacks and otherwise a handful of backups and everything else like that. So even the odds of a quarterback becoming Sage Rosenfels are very, very low once you get past the first. So I think you made the right call. If you're drafting a quarterback, you draft the guy who drops to be available at 14

if there is somebody there. I do have these little moments. I don't have them as much anymore, but right after I got done playing, after I retired, that's when you sort of sit back and look at the whole thing. You know, I was born in 1978. Brees is actually a year younger than me because he didn't red shirt. So he's born in 79. But I think it was like, you know, of all quarterbacks that went to high school in 19 that were born in 1978,

I may have to have the longest career, not to make the most money probably, you know, but which is, which is pretty odd to look back and think about, right. Tom Brady is a year older than me. Drew Brees is a year younger than me. But, you know, that draft was, yeah, it was Michael Vick as the first pick. Though he may have played longer than me. He had that break in the middle for various things. And so I don't know if he has as many accrued seasons. But other than those two, you know, Chris Wienke and Marquise Tuiasosopo

and Quincy Carter and Jesse Palmer Josh Heupel AJ Feely Mike McMahon it was really it's an interesting draft class and to go back and just you know I'm still friends with Jesse so if I'm in New York believe me I'm trying to have a cup of coffee with all the great Jesse Palmer uh who is you know his he's you know he's more famous from not being a quarterback, from doing other things, which is pretty amazing. But to see how all these guys end up in their worlds, you know, after being drafted and having whether, you know, Josh Heupel made maybe a practice squad or is the third string guy for one year, but like won the Maxwell trophy, you know, but definitely did not have

the arm and didn't throw the ball very well to be an NFL quarterback. And I think it was a sixth or seventh rounder, but you know, now he's, you know, a head coach in college football. Right. So it's interesting to sort of see where all those guys end up and we'll see how all these draft guys, you know, how they all end up too. Maybe there'll be a, another bachelor in this mix. It's not going to be Trevor Lawrence though. Yeah, that's right. That's right's right let me end let's end on this I want you to tell a story of a quarterback you were around at some point in your career

who didn't make it for a funny reason I feel just like you if you've got a story of somebody who didn't work out and you went yeah I knew that guy wasn't going to work out because blank why I heard that Quincy Carter had a drug problem, like going into the, you know, the draft or the combine. I remember somebody saying that, like, I think he's got a drug problem. And that's what did end up happening. He had some sort of substance abuse issue and he didn't make it for very long. So I guess that would be like the non-shocker of my draft. I actually thought Marquis Tuyasa-Silpa was going to have a longer career.

He was a second rounder drafted by John Gruden. He was a great athlete. He ran for 250 and threw for 250 in a college football game up at Washington. And when I would watch him throw, I thought he had a very nice throwing motion. And I was just sort of surprised that he didn't make it for as long as me or A.J. Feeely or some other guys, right? So, yeah, I'm not surprised Mike McMahon had his career. Like, he could throw it really well.

He was a very good athlete. But, like, you know, really high on the annoying guy award list, right? So, one of those guys where, like, unless he's an awesome starter, he is going to be like one of those, like Rick Stillman's not going to have him as to be the backup or the third string guy. And that's what I was sort of talking about earlier. You could sort of see that early on, no offense to Mike McMahon, but I could, that's, that was my, you know, of his presence. That's what I felt like as a 23 year old and he, you know,

he was 22, 23 as well. That's what I was looking for. Non-quarterback question real quick before we let you go. The only Iowa State guy that I can find who's probably going to get drafted or maybe going to get drafted is a 6'7", 272-pound tight end, Dylan Soner, Dylan Sater. What do you know about this guy? He's Jim Kleinsasser.

No, he is. He's a big kid. I remember seeing him at practice one time. He was a redshirt freshman, and I was like, who is this kid? I mean, big number 89, big kid. Looks like he's moving pretty well when he's out there. He's a tight end. He wasn't a big, like, guy that you'd think he'd end up being a tackle.

Like, hey, and maybe that's what happens to him. You know, maybe he ends up being, one of those you know back in the day when it was san francisco or not uh the denver broncos which mike shanahan you know they their left tackles were more athletic than they were big you know maybe he's one of those guys say hey let's draft him in that move to tackle but he's a good blocker obviously he catches the ball very well uh i think he's very, very well liked on that football team. So yeah, I don't know where he'll be picked or what his 40 time was or his bench press or all that, but he was a very, very well liked player

by the coaching staff. And cause they also would put him in that full back position. You hear that Kleinshauser, you can see the Kleinshauser comparable. You don't get too many Kleinshauser comparables, but you do hear when you're talking about Iowa State so we there is I think he might be one of those guys could be a tight end slash fullback slash left tackle uh but you know being tall it's hard to be a fullback in some ways because you have to get the bend down to get underneath those like

linebackers pads sometimes and that can be hard to do for guys as big as him but i'd like to think he's going to have a decent or very good nfl career be super sweet i mean iowa state won the fiesta bowl last year the fact that they have one guy that might get drafted right that's amazing that's amazing now they did have a whole bunch of guys go back to school because they think they could really be in this mix of the BCS. And so they have these like super seniors who are like 60 or seniors because last year the whole NCAA thing, the year didn't count. So you probably have a few more guys on that list. But what Matt Campbell is doing, and maybe that's a different podcast, but what Matt Campbell is doing, by the way, offered a huge contract with the lions and turned it down i wanted to say that one by the way uh what he is doing at iowa state is so impressive because though he has good football players he does not have draft picks he does not have first rounders he does not have anything like

the nick statement thing he doesn't have anything like the oklahoma thing you know they beat oklahoma then almost beat oklahoma the big 12 championship championship game. Oklahoma have six guys drafted this year or something like that, right? The fact that he does that with so few guys that are drafted is incredible. And he's such a good coach. His culture thing is very real.

It's very different than the Minnesota gopher guy. I think they're shooting for the same thing. I prefer Campbell's approach. And I think it's very real well the players have really bought in i went to spring practice the other day and what they're doing is so different than like what i went through in college like spring ball is very beat them up because everyone's competing for the fall spots it was very teaching walk through jog through routes on air individual period correct footwork you know offensive line working together on bags or whatever like for practices not you're right you

don't like like like coaches don't do that and one of the things he said to me was actually when they are done at Iowa State he wants them healthy so they have a chance to get the NFL they have nice careers and it makes Iowa State look good rather than like beat these guys up and then off you go to the NFL good luck to you with all of your injuries you were accrued by us beating the crap out of each other like that mental approach to a coach do you know how as a player how much you appreciate that and how much like how great that is to want to then be healthy during the season and not all beating it no one's gonna tear their ACL this spring right no one's gonna blow an achilles or blow out a shoulder because or have too many concussions right that used to happen and it does happen in last spring ball everyone's trying to go

out there and prove themselves and for his thought is how do we have this growing and healthy and also the weight lifting is still four or five days a week. So rather than like sort of taking spring ball off a little bit and backing off, no, we're still in that off season development stage. What's more important that we beat each other up in April and March or that we're getting stronger and learning the fine details. So those things actually all matter really in November and December, right? When it really, really counts. So what he is doing with having one guy drafted and winning the Fiesta Bowl last year is –

I'm so impressed by it, and hopefully we can keep him for a long, long time. I think he really would like to build Iowa State into a special – one of those programs. And so, yeah, we'll see if Dylan S dylan sander gets drafted for for for the cyclones that'd be great seems like a great kid um i don't you can't say i know i'm trying to introduce myself once or twice along the way but uh he'd be he'd be a good type of viking type of guy i think i like glue guys i like guys that are like you know they just they they just sort of bring it all together. They do all the right things.

They can play multiple positions. He'll be out there. You know, Dylan Finner will be on kickoff team, I promise you, or kickoff return team. He'll do all those things. He'll do his job. And those types of guys, a lot of times, if healthy, will have 10-year, 12-year careers, maybe never make more than $2 million,

but great guys to have on your football team. And I think he could definitely be one of those guys. 6'7", 275, that runs pretty good. He carries that weight extremely well. He really is like that big of a guy. I think he should have a good NFL career. Maybe the next David Morgan. There's your more recent comp. If we are not making at least one Jim Kleinsasser comparison in draft season, though, I just don't want draft season then. You've got to have at least one. In all those years, nobody liked Kleinsasser.

Nobody. Just nobody. Nobody in any way that I play with that had all the things that he could do. It was just simply incredible. Yeah. No, you're right. Yeah, that's what made it so special. Is he in the Ring of Honor?

Is he in the Ring of Honor yet? I don think so but in our hearts come on that's like you're just not going to get you're just not going to get that many guys in the way the nfl that play for your team for 10 years like i don't care if he didn't go to five pro bowls or whatever you know um to me he's a no-brainer you know think Chad Greenway, Rudolph will probably be in the ring. You play 10 years for a franchise anymore. It's just so rare. You've got to have a ring ceremony once a year, don't you? You've got to throw somebody in every year or two.

I like to think that Kline Saucer should be in there, if he isn't already. I'm guessing he's not. You guys would probably know this. No, I don't think he is. That sounds like a, a, a summer podcast. Make your case for Ring of Honor guys. I mean, I, you'd like to think 10 plus years just as the organization. There's a very, you know, no offense to Colin Loeffler as the long snapper. He probably won't make it, but if you're, you know, a guy like Klein Saucer too,

and also, you know, not that it helps, but he. But if you're, you know, a guy like Klein Saucer too, and also, you know, not that it helps, but he like stayed in the area. You know, that helps. He's a Minnesotan. And I think there's something special about that too. Marcus Sherrill's then. I was just going to say that. Let's put in Sherrill.

You know that would end up, now you're going to take down my Klein Saucer thing. Love me some Sherrill's though. Again, glue guy, right? Sherrill's the glue guy. Klein Sa's officer, glue guy. You know, those guys that just like what, you know, yeah, throw them out there for that. He'll know what he's doing in the slot or outside or on kick return or on punt return or as a gunner, or I love those guys.

And maybe Dylan Santa could be that, the next guy for the Vikings. The next thing I'll be in the ring of honor in 15 years. Sage, you're the best as always. This was a fantastic conversation. Loved it. And glad we could do a round table with a little bit of like, I was explaining to Sam what that show was like. This is your life. Like this is your past podcast life being on with me and Sam.

So thanks so much for your time, man. All right, guys. Thanks for having me on.