Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Four defensive prospects visit Vikings, CBS's Chris Trapasso breaks them all down

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

Matthew Coller is joined by CBS Sports draft analyst Chris Trapasso to break down the four defensive prospects taking Top 30 visits with the Vikings this week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of purple insider, Matthew Collar here, along with CBS sports draft analyst, Chris Trapas. And Chris, we are shockingly not going to start the show by talking about quarterbacks. And I know, I know that this is stunning news and people may be upset, but there's actually some other things to talk about as the Minnesota Vikings have reportedly brought in four players, and I'm sure more than that but four very notable first round potential prospects in their 30 visits where you are allowed to bring in 30 players to visit your facility and four of them are guys that have been talked about quite a bit in the first round so here's what I want to do I want to start the show by having you break these players down because I have spent most

of my life focused solely on quarterbacks. So I am somewhat familiar with these players, but not at the level that you are studying the entire draft. So the first guy I have named dropped, I don't know, 57 times on the show as an option at 11. If the Vikings don't pick a quarterback, which would be Byron Murphy, a defensive tackle whose tape I've looked at and really liked and whose numbers I've looked at and really liked. And it seems that the Vikings at least have him in potential plans. If they do not draft quarterback, say number three overall by trading up. So what do we need to know about

the defensive tackle Byron Murphy out of Texas? He is my interior defensive lineman number one in this class. It's really a two horse race between he and Johnny Newton at Illinois, who didn't actually work out during the pre-draft process with Byron Murphy. To me, he is the interior defensive lineman that is worth picking like as high as 11. Like there's the Tavondre Sweat, his teammate. It's a big nose tackle. And it's really hard for me to be convinced that unless you're getting a premier pass rusher at defensive tackle, I would almost say picking them anywhere in the first round,

you might as well not do it. Byron Murphy, the last two years, pressure generation rate over, right around 11%. And I think that's a big number. That's first round caliber anywhere or anytime you're between eight, nine, get up there into double digits, playing a lot of snaps at defensive tackle. That is first round caliber. So he checks that box. What I like about Byron Murphy, despite being, I don't want to call him undersized because I think he's exactly the right size, you know, right around 300 pounds that you want at that

three technique that's just going to get up the field. He's also good against the run. There were some clips, I feel like Lance Zerline tweeted them recently about how good he is literally dropping down to one knee against a double team. Or when he's facing a bigger, stronger guard or a center, Byron Murphy will literally be the lowest man on the field almost and kind of stand his ground or as they use kind of in the scouting world, he'll grow roots against double teams or against powerful players. Now he's not someone that is going to keep your linebackers free. He wants to get up the field, elite level explosiveness. Pass rush move arsenal is not amazing, but he definitely isn't complacent with his hands.

So again, this is weird for us to not be talking about how are the Vikings trading up for a quarterback, but in some weird scenario where that doesn't happen and they just can't get the quarterback because there is a need there, I think at defensive tackle, especially someone who can get after the quarterback. Byron Murphy is better than anyone at doing that in this class at defensive tackle. And as far as all the numbers go, he checks the boxes. He was graded 91 something by PFF and had terrific pressure numbers. SAC numbers were not insane, but they were still pretty solid for somebody in his position. And I think that the defensive tackle position is growing in importance in the NFL because a lot of teams are playing lighter behind the defensive line. So you do have to do exactly what you're talking about, stuff the run with guys who are playing in the interior, but also there's a lot of decent

tackles in the league. I don't think there's a lot of good guards in the NFL. I think there's a handful of them. And if you have those Kenny Clark, what Akeem Hicks was a few years back, those destroyers in the middle, or even if it's an undersized guy like a Grady Jarrett, Aaron Donald's the all-time example. Shouldn't compare him to anyone, but you see the impact on a play-to-play basis. And the Vikings have been on the other side of this quite a bit with Kirk Cousins, where he was, that was his number one kryptonite, I think is when you could blow through the middle. And we've seen, you know, Garrett Bradbury get blown up. We've seen the guards struggle against

these great defensive tackles, but the Vikings have not been on the right side of that for actually a couple of years since Linval Joseph left. And he's not a Linval Joseph like, but I think as an impact player, this is somebody that you could see eventually getting one of those $20 million a year contracts. I guess my question is as they have him come visit, is it 11 or you're not getting him for Byron Murphy? The second, I think he could be there at 23, uh, just from looking at other mock drafts, seeing some consensus big boards. It wouldn't be shocking. It does kind of seem like, and in talking to a few people that I know around the league,

that a lot of NFL coaches really like Johnny Newton, the other kind of up-the-field, elite-level pass rusher on the inside in this class. But I think, again, being at Texas, seeing how that program has really ascended the last couple years, he was kind of the key cog doing everything that you just mentioned, like creating havoc in the Big 12, getting to the college football playoff, the elite testing numbers, the production. I would be surprised if he was there at 23, but I don't think it's like, hey, this is like Malik Neighbors is not going to get there to 23. There is a possibility where he could be available at least within

striking distance. But if the Vikings want him in this, you know, alternate universe where they're not picking the quarterback probably would have to do it at 11, because like you're saying these type of six to 10 to 12 sack 60 to 70 pressure interior defensive linemen are very hard to come by and they are getting a lot of money. So I think teams understand that we're not going to pick the run stuffer in the first round, but if we can get an ad, like an ad Oliver, even I think that they would be completely fine with that. So it feels like 11 or bust if they want to draft Byron Murphy. Even if you have somebody that only plays five to 600 snaps, but impacts the pass rush on the interior. That's a very valuable player. I mean, everybody wants the Dexter Lawrence who's 340 pounds and could somehow rush the passer

and can stuff the run. Okay. There's not that many of those guys, but if you become an impact player over 600 snaps and the Vikings have a couple other guys that, you know, Harrison Phillips is a reasonable player. They brought in Jerry Tillery, who's just started to show some signs, Jonah Williams, but they really could use another person on the interior to make a difference. Now there's three other guys that came in to visit. And one of them, I really like his production numbers.

They're kind of through the roof. And that is Leatu Latu out of UCLA. And he was talked about as a guy who did not have the crazy physical freak skills, but is more of an excellent technician at the position. And you see that in his production. And this is somebody that you could see going quickly after all the run on wide receivers and quarterbacks. But I also think that it's not totally crazy to see him in the middle late part of the first round. So what's the breakdown on Latu?

Yeah, so just to your point on where he could be picked, I'll start there that he's kind of enigmatic in this draft that you watch the film and you're like, this guy's the top half of the first round pick all day, 20% career pressure creation rate, which is like Micah Parsons level. It's really, really high, but he's an older prospect at his size. He's like six, four, two 60. So he has an NFL build kind of a little bit high cut. He's older. He has shorter arms and he has an injury history. So there could be a few of those teams picking from anywhere from the Bears at nine all the way to when the Vikings have their second pick at 23.

If there's three or four of those teams that either have removed him from their boards, which I don't think teams would necessarily take him completely off. It's not that bad in terms of his injury history, but they could move him down a little bit. Then suddenly, all of a sudden, he's there at 23 overall. In terms of the book on him, what you explained was pretty much spot on, that in terms of pass rush moves, swim moves, swipe move, cross chop, anything that you hear about a name for a pass rush move, Latu has that in the arsenal. And I remember thinking that he was going to come out last year because he looked like this super fluid athlete that even as a junior had all of these pass rush moves in the arsenal ready to go and deployed them

in the Pac-12 and was super productive. He comes back and pretty much has the same season. So to me, I'm a big believer. You see back-to-back high-level productivity seasons from someone who does have a pretty high RAS. Again, he's not like he's not like 84 inch wingspan with 34 inch arms. He kind of has a unique build in that regard that he NFL size, but shorter arms, but the testing was good enough. Coupled with the production over multiple years where I think he is a hit the ground running high floor, maybe not crazy high upside again, because of the age and because he's not a freaky athlete, but he feels like one of the cleanest prospects regardless of position in this entire draft. And I think that when it comes to Brian Flores types players, which we'll get to another one

from UCLA that dropped by the Vikings as well in a second, but technicians and high intelligence players, guys who really appreciate the craft of football rather than just physical freaks. In my mind, those fit with what Brian Flores is. And you might say, well, every coach is going to want guys who produce like crazy and know all the pass rush moves and are committed and everything else. But Flores generally asks a lot of his guys. And that doesn't just mean dropping back in coverage or blitzing, but also technique wise. I think this is why he liked DJ Wanham that he would ask for different rush

lanes to be taken care of. And he would ask for different types of rushes where sometimes you're rushing and then kind of faking it and dropping back. And sometimes on the outside, sometimes on the inside, sometimes you're moving positions. And I think someone who is like Latu, who has produced a ton and seems to really care about it to me that if you have all those different pass rush moves and techniques that shows how much you

want to be good at this. And I also feel like, tell me what you think of this production in Daniil Hunter's case didn't matter in almost everybody else's case it does and it doesn't guarantee that you will be a massive sack artist but it sure certainly is convincing to me when someone is racking up 12 sacks in a college season and has like you said the relative athletic score is RAS, has the athletic baseline to be able to get there. I have liked him as an idea for number 23, if they end up having that pick. Yeah, for sure. And I guess how I do it with my evaluations is Danell Hunter was so freaky athletic. The production wasn't there, but you say, well, that can be coached up and tapping

into that size, length, athleticism. That's where you're okay picking a Danell Hunter on day two and saying, hey, like, let's just see what we can do. If you're Liatu Latu, who is a good athlete, he's not Danell Hunter-esque, he's not TJ Watt around the corner or Miles Garrett, then you do need to see the refinement and the productivity. So it's really kind of like a give and take that you pick a flyer in the seventh round who looks like Danell Hunter but could never get to the quarterback because you hope

that your Brian Flores or your defensive line coach can really tap into that athleticism. So if you are someone like Latu, you don't have the crazy long wingspan that can get into the chest of offensive tackles. You want to be able to use your hands like a karate master, and that's what he does. So that's where someone that produced for many years, like you're saying, you feel good about it because it's like he understands his athletic limitations or maybe length limitations and that he's not crazy powerful. He's just like one of the most slippery rushers in the entire draft. And he has legitimate NFL defensive end size. All right. The next guy on my list that came to visit the Minnesota Vikings is Quinnian Mitchell and cornerback. So really the Vikings have a lack of difference making talent on defense.

I think Jonathan Grenard can be that Ivan pace to an extent, uh, combine them to an extent. Josh Metellus probably can be that, uh, into another season and beyond, but they don't have a shutdown lockdown. Hate to see this guy. Here comes the best receivers in the league. He's going to be over on their side for most of the day. They have not had that since Xavier Rhodes. They've also not had a good defense, a really good defense since Xavier Rhodes either. And if you're checking off the boxes of, all right, here's what we need to build a number one defense, not just a, okay, good enough, whatever. I mean like an elite defense. That guy is an absolute requirement. Quinion Mitchell appears to have the goods to potentially be that where is his draft stock

though I mean this is this is Toledo Rockets right is that where he comes from I mean that's that's the Mac so there will be maybe some questions about the competition that he played against tremendous athlete is his is his ceiling in this draft like one of the first defensive players or is he more of a back of the first uh and you know what i mean back end of the first round guy it's really hard to peg because of what you just pointed out that i think there will be teams that will say okay 45 pass breakups the last three seasons six interceptions but in the mac now to me and i feel like i say this every draft season so i'm glad i'm getting it out with him i of, of course, am not a box score scout, but I have a rule.

Cornerbacks that have a ton of pass breakups, they're doing something right. They're either freaky athletes or they have insane instincts. The zone awareness is amazing. Whatever it is, it is, I think, a very big challenge to find a cornerback that has 45 pass breakups in three seasons and is just like a terrible prospect. And that's what Quinion Mitchell had. I don't care if it's in the Mac pack, 12 SEC, ACC. And then by the way, six foot, 190 plus pounds, 31 inch arms, which 10 years ago would be on the smaller side. But I think today with the tank Dells and the Jordan

Addison, that's actually like a pretty big corner to play on the outside. 4-3-3 speed. Now, I don't think he plays quite to that level of speed on the field, but was super sticky in coverage. And even when there were times where, even in the MAAC, he wouldn't be right in the hip pocket of the wide receiver, his recovery speed, his instincts, his length always showed up. And it it was like I went in knowing the statistics I was like let's see was this just a bunch of easy pass breakups there was a lot of times where I'm like oh he got beat there wow he still made that pass break like how did he recover that quickly I think zone man press bail any type of uh coverage that Brian Flores wanted to throw at a defense Quinion Mitchell I think would be ready to do that. I'm not going to say he's quite Xavier Rhodes because he was a little bigger and was like

a true, like ridiculous freak, but there is that type of ability to stay relatively close to any size wide receiver. And he almost knows like, all right, if I'm just right here, about a quarter of a yard behind this guy, I can still get my left arm in there and break up the pass or just find the football and pick it off. So he's my cornerback one in this class. There's other guys from bigger schools. Nate Wiggins from Clemson. Obviously, Terry and Arnold from Alabama.

Kool-Aid McKinstry. Feels like we might be talking about a Toledo Rocket actually being the first corner off the board because he checks all the boxes despite or beyond just where he played in college. Folks, we all have smartphones and we know that they are pretty amazing, but they can also be amazingly distracting, especially when we're around other people. So U.S. Cellular wants us to reset our relationship with our phones by putting down our phones for five. That's right. A company that sells phones wants us to put down our phones and

see what we can find. Learn more at uscellular.com slash built for us. That's uscellular.com slash built for us. It seemed to me that last year was hard for the Vikings to play a lot of man because they just didn't have the dudes. And I think about the, yeah, the limitations that Brian Flores had to work under the restrictions roster wise and what he got out of it. The idea of having someone who you can actually play man on a really great receiver is exciting to think about

what different tweaks he could make to that defense already if he had someone like Quinion Mitchell and he lived up to what his draft type is. But I agree with you that similar to the other statistics we're talking about, sacks, we're talking about, you know, with receivers, receptions, quarterbacks, yards passing, it's not always a one-to-one. Sometimes guys don't have a ton of pass breakups and become great, but for the most part, they usually do. And if I have to be told, of which I have been numerous times in draft picks of the recent past, well, you see,

they didn't throw at him that often. Like it's college football, man. Not only are the quarterbacks not good enough to not know who to throw to, but they throw all the time. Like they're throwing hundreds and hundreds of passes, unless you're JJ McCarthy had to fit that in. Uh, but they're throwing hundreds of passes. It's bad, sometimes bad, sometimes good competition. It's not always the best receivers. You should make some plays on the ball. And we've seen really from a Caleb Evans, his athleticism is great, but I think he had zero interceptions like his whole college career. So something's a little bit off there and it has been in the NFL. So I think that is a major factor for Quinn Young Mitchell. Yeah. One last point in watching his film. I was like, why are these quarterbacks continuing to

throw in his direction? There was a couple of games where he had three or four or five pass breakups. And it was like on a slant, deep down the sideline, on a post, on a dig, on a comeback. And it was like he truly was showing his ability to make plays, not just a burner with the 4-3-3 speed. He, to me, if he was at a different school, maybe the production wouldn't be quite as gaudy. But everything that you want out of today's cornerback on the outside, physicality at the line is there too. And definitely, if you're saying maybe the Vikings want

and didn't have the dudes to play man, Quinion Mitchell, I mean, again, it was the Mac. It will be different against the Packers receivers, of course. But he is unafraid to play in the face and play man coverage on the football field. All right. One more guy we want to get to that visit the Vikings that both you and I are super intrigued by. And I don't know when he's going to be picked because he does not appear to me as a super high ceiling guy, but is it insane to think that gabriel murphy of the ucla bruins could be like a fourth round guy that they look at or maybe if they were to trade some of the later

stuff to get into the third round but this is somebody who moved all over the place and had very good production it caught my eye when i was looking at his pff data just when they brought him in like oh this is somebody that actually moved around quite a bit and he's not thought of as a physical freak but look at some of the guys that Brian Flores has worked well with Ivan Pace Jr is that a physical freak to you doesn't look like one to me and they just signed Andrew Van Ginkle another guy who's like physically impressive but I wouldn't say he's Miles Garrett. Yet his intelligence, his movability, he was a fifth round pick who Brian Flores turned into a very good player. So I kind of see shades of that in Gabriel Murphy.

Yeah, he's really fun. And whoever the defensive line and defensive coordinator was at UCLA, which I don't know off the top of my head, did a great job with Latu, with Gabriel Murphy, and even his twin brother, Grayson Murphy, who could be a day three pick. I looked back before we started at just what my scouting report, just anything that stood out from the Gabriel Murphy scouting report. And I wrote, and then I certainly love everything that Latu does. I wrote, he may have the best arsenal of pass rushing moves in the entire class. Latu is amazing with his swim move.

Blockers try to get into his chest, and just uses that JJ watt, like arm over repeatedly. And then he'll throw in a swipe, then a bull rush. Grayson Murphy or Gabriel Murphy, excuse me, will literally throw five different pass rush moves in one drive on a guard. Then he'll be moved outside to tackle then blitzing up the middle against the center it's almost like he had like a different move depending on where he was aligned super slippery can get skinny through gaps even though he is a little bit smaller and like you're saying he probably is not going to go super early because he's kind of like the size of an off-ball linebacker a little bigger um like in the 240 range but like like short arms, like 75-inch wingspan.

Like he's not someone that's going to win literally on his physicality or athleticism alone. But like you mentioned earlier with Latu, at his size, he hits the kind of, I don't want to say bottom floor, but he hits the standard of, all right, he's not like a low-level athlete who ran four, nine and has a 25 inch vertical. Like he kind of exudes smoothness on the football field. He's not super explosive, but in terms of situational pass rushing, and we know how aggressive Brian Flores is, he's someone that you would like to pluck off the sideline and go, oh, it's second and long.

You're going to rush up the egg gap. And that is like famous. Brian Flores loves, you know, Ivan Pace was so good there. And then on third and seven, you're going to rush up the a gap and that is like famous brian flores loves you know ivan pace was so good there and then on third and seven you're going to be outside of andrew van ginkle here and then on the next down we're going to keep you on the field on first and ten and you're going to rush right next to jonathan grenard and that's really where gabriel murphy was used and production through the roof i mean not a ton of sacks but you watch the Latu film and you're like, who's this smaller guy? I think his number was 12. Like he is in the backfield a lot because of, again, the finesse part of his game, which I do think gets lost in the NFL. That's actually like for as good as J.J. Watt and Aaron Donald were and how strong and physical freaks they were,

they were finesse players at times where blockers just could not get their hands on him because they were so good in the pass rush move department. That's kind of how I feel about Gabriel Murphy. Feels like that kind of mid-round pick who can outplay his draft position. So if you're wondering who are these fellas who are visiting the Minnesota Vikings, well, there's your breakdown of those fellas. But 22 minutes is way too long to go without talking quarterbacks. So I'm sure the Vikings will have more players in.

And next week we could take a look at some of those. Also next week, we'll have a Kwesi Adafo-Mensa press conference to break down as well that we're going to get later on this week as the pre-draft presser where he reveals all their plans. I'm sure it's always, always a fun sport that pre-draft press conference to try to get any information that we can out of the general manager. But let's get to a quarterback subject, which Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated reported something that really caught my ear. He was on the Rich Eisen show and Breer said that scouts are not very high on Michael Penix, but coaches are high on Michael Penix. So

he said that as he was talking to coaches during the season, what are you seeing from this guy that they would rave about him? But then when he would ask NFL scouts that he knows over the years, hey, what do you think? They would say, ah, you know, maybe he's a second round pick or something like that. What do you think is the gap there between what coaches are working with and what scouts are looking at with Michael Penix Jr.? Okay. Here's my theory on that. And we kind of talked about this previously about, uh, I've mentioned Bo Nix that I feel like he's like kind of an extension of the offensive coordinator on the field. And we haven't really heard any Bo Nix buzz lately. Maybe that's going to kind of start up the last two weeks leading into the draft, but

it's the same idea. It's the fact that I think coaches, what does an offensive coach want? They want their quarterback to get the ball out of their hands quickly, not take a lot of sacks, play within the structure, structure uh distribute the football kind of evenly to all different receivers so defenses can't zero in on one wide receiver or a tight end and that is really the book if you're looking at strengths for michael pennix low sack rate uh you can watch and see hey this is a romo dunze game this is a jalen polk game this is a uh jalen mcmillan game he did such a good job really being that point

guard. So, and it kind of hits home with me because as a, as a scout, I'll say like, I'm not crazy high on Michael Penix because the improvisation isn't really there. We know he's not a superb athlete. And even if he, you know, tested well at the Washington pro day, that's not really his game. But I, it makes perfect sense that as the coaches, you know, get off the playoffs and they're really focused on free agency. And then they're like, all right, let's get caught up with the draft here. What's who do we got? And they're like, oh my God, this guy just does everything that I want from him. I mean, yeah, there's some misses here and there. And I think coaches understand that how big improvisation is

today at the quarterback spot. But I think scouts are more looking for upside and I think coaches understand that how big improvisation is today at the quarterback spot but I think scouts are more looking for upside and I kind of gravitate in that direction too not just for quarterback but coaches want hey this guy is going to come in and be a lie to lot to and be great with his hands and get the ball out if you're a quarterback make good decisions and I think that's why there's kind of a disconnect and by the way for me this screams Las Vegas Raiders to me I think Antonio Pierce is kind of the guy there nothing against Tom Telesco but he's a retread GM he didn't hire Antonio Pierce it was kind of this galvanized team down the stretch they win an arrowhead on Christmas kind of feels like I don't want to say

because I'm not sure if like he's the one the final call, but it feels like the Raiders could be that team where Antonio Pierce and his coaching staff love Michael Penix, and Tom Telesco's like, I'm kind of looking for a Justin Herbert-type player. Certainly the arm strength is close, but that's just the team that I thought of right away that maybe could be either giving Breer that information or just a team that makes sense to have that disconnect between the scouts and the coaches. I can totally see it because if like, when you're talking about scouts should be trying to think about how a player can grow and what they

can become. So when you look at someone who's 21 years old and maybe has raw tools and you go, you know, over the next couple of years, this is like the JJ McCarthy thing over the next couple of years, you could develop that arm and make him better. You can develop, you know, his use his mind and you can see where he's kind of ticking and he's a winner and he's got a big heart and all that stuff. Uh, so I guess you could see that. Uh, but as from a coaching perspective, if you are drawing up an offense what you understand if you're kevin o'connell is that throwing with anticipation is a unbelievably difficult and b uh impossible to teach someone how to do so if you're kevin o'connell and you're going all right so his feet get messy on these slant routes okay we'll we'll work on that we'll do that a hundred times off to

the side we'll figure out how to get it or we'll just not use that route as much or something else but when i send justin jefferson on a double move 25 yards down the field and i need him to be breaking as michael pennix is pulling the trigger as actually Kirk Cousins was extremely good at this. And probably the reason why Kirk Cousins became a top 10 ish quarterback in the league is because someone could be heading across the field and he could throw it to a spot way the back over there. And you're like on tape, you go, wait, where's he even aiming? And then, okay, now I see the receiver come into the picture and make the play. You that all over michael panix's tape you see it all over kirk cousins you see it i mean the great quarterbacks in the league don't have to see it come open before they throw the ball

i even think that this is one of the reasons someone like brock purdy can be not special and yet still succeed in the nfl is throwing with anticipation that's part of it also throwing it that hard you think about the windows you have to throw into and i kind of made fun of the like grit or big heart or whatever but if you're a coach and you see a guy take a program that's mediocre to a championship game and fight through the injuries he fought through through his career lead the way he did handle all through his career, lead the way he did handle all the things of that offense, the way he did. See, this is why I think I gravitate to Michael Pennix. I spend most of my career talking to players and coaches and not so much scouts.

And I, I take away things from them and I look at Pennix differently than you do. I like him a lot more than you do. And I like him as a him as a potential fit at number 11 for the Vikings. Now, let me tie these two subjects together, Chris, what we talked about first and then now. So we got all these players coming to visit the Vikings. We got coaches that like Michael Penix. The coach of the Vikings is really making this decision, and I don't think anybody else, for the Vikings.

Are you feeling me with an 11 and 23 Michael Pennix and Byron Murphy, Leatsu, Latsu, Quinion Mitchell, maybe am I onto something? Could this work? For sure. Because we definitely aren't on this exact same page in terms of where we would, you know of stack michael pennix in this draft but that has been the i don't know what the term is like the uh draft scenarios that you have to kind of pit against each other if you're the vikings is it trade the farm for jj mccarthy and hope that the scouts are right and that you can develop or is it just go with high floor with michael pennix and you oh by the way you also get a lie to lot to, or Quinnian Mitchell or whatever, uh, top tier prospect probably on defense is there at 23.

Uh, and I think for as much as I'm an advocate for trading up for a quarterback, that doesn't mean that I think every team has to do it. And I don't think there is such a sizable gap between JJ McCarthy and, and Michael Penix where I would say, oh, go with the former. Definitely pick JJ McCarthy, trade 11 and 23, maybe even a mid-round pick next year, get him. Don't even think about Michael Penix. I think they're relatively close and you have to kind of pit those two together. And yes, I think even though I'm not as high on Pennix, I would go with the Pennix plus elite defensive or borderline elite, very good defensive prospect in the first round, as opposed to trading the farm for JJ McCarthy. I am completely prepared by the way

for Michael Pennix to be taken in the third round and JJ McCarthy to be taken fourth or fifth overall as the Vikings trade everything for him. And then Kevin O'Connell tells me all about the things that I didn't see with JJ McCarthy and the press conference or whatever. I am prepared for that outcome, but until that happens, I will, I will die on the hill of Michael Penix. I like a lot about his game. And I think if they did it, it would make a lot of sense with how Kevin O'Connell operates. There is another rumor, though, that directs us back into the top three with the Vikings. And this comes via Todd McShay on Ryan Russillo's show, where he talked about a scenario where,

follow along, everybody, it about a scenario where follow along. Everybody gets a little convoluted. The Vikings trade up with the Patriots. So the Patriots go back to 11 and get 23. Then the Patriots trade back up to four with the Arizona Cardinals. So the Patriots are still in position to draft JJ McCarthy and the Vikings are in position to draft Drake May or Jaden Daniels. There's a lot going on there. And what basically Todd McShay was saying is, yeah, there's a lot going on with all the discussions among the top potential draft drafting teams. And of course the Vikings, I think we pretty clearly know are trying to trade up and whether they pull it off we'll see so what do you think about a trade up for the Vikings then

Patriots trade back then Patriots trade back up well we saw it happen last year with what the Houston Texans did with CJ Stroud and Will Anderson and then the Arizona Cardinals which would be the team involved at number four, they traded out. They let the Houston Texans pick Will Anderson, who won defensive player of the year. Then they traded back up to pick Paris Johnson, the offensive tackle from Ohio State. So it seems weird, and I'm sure there's been other instances in draft history, but it's kind of a new thing. We haven't seen it recently. Now from that, from a Vikings angle, I just said like, you could maybe talk me into Michael Penix and defensive player over JJ McCarthy trading their

farm to get him. I would be okay with that. If you're trading up for three to get Drake May, I'm going Drake May. Like I am a Drake May dude. I think he is very close to Caleb Williams. That's one where one quarterback plus future picks plus 23 outweighs value-wise, you know, just going the, we're going to just try to get the lesser quarterback and get a good defensive player. To me, May is significantly, or I don't want to say significantly, but way ahead of JJ McCarthy on my board in my evaluation. So that situation, it would be fun to see all those trades early on. But to me, I mean, I don't know if Todd said who he was thinking the Vikings would pick, but at three, I feel like Drake may would be more on the board than JJ McCarthy, right?

Yes, I would say so. Or, I mean, we don't know. They could love Jaden Daniels more than we think. That could be the one that we're surprised by uh that we didn't see necessarily as being the best fit but i mean when you look at the production the deep passing the running ability if you want somebody who won't check down on fourth and eight there's your guy he might get sacked and lose 23 yards but he also might run for a 40-yard touchdown jaden daniels And we're going to

dive into that a little bit more next week. We're going to look at some Jaden Daniels and Michael Pennix and their best games. Similarly to what we did last week with JJ McCarthy and Drake, Drake and Drake is by the way, I was on Twitter today. I saw, I think it was JP Acosta put out a screen grab of the North Carolina offense and it's just receivers nowhere close to open somebody breaking through the offensive line. And I was reminded of how we called his offense, a clown show as like, yep, there it is. That's what it looked like for, uh, for Drake may. Cause I I've had people ask what I think about JTO Sullivan, friend of the show who ranked Drake May fourth on his quarterback rankings. And my thought is there's a reason why JT does an explanation in the beginning because he's basing it off of what he watched in the 2023

tape. And it's not always great. And sometimes it is great, but sometimes it's pretty messy for Drake May. I would still be completely comfortable with the Vikings doing something like this. And whatever the Patriots do after that, I don't care. I do think it is realistic, though, with this trading back and then trading up for the Patriots to pull off. So I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is their plan. So they could kind of have their cake and eat it too. Uh, now I want to end the show, Chris, by playing a little game that I thought of today, as I was on a plane back from visiting my in-laws, uh, I want to call it what's this team thinking, what's this team thinking. And because I was trying to put myself

in the minds of other teams around the vikings we're just talking about the patriots and so forth like what what are what are their approach what are they saying over there and the two teams i came up with that could be maybe a thorn in the viking side and i want your opinion on what them teams are thinking is uh the new york giants and denver broncos the giants me, I just have never bought in fully to the idea that they're going after a quarterback. I think they want to give one more shot to that Daniel Jones thing working. They already brought in a backup quarterback in Drew Locke and they need everything on their roster. Their roster is barely over UFL level and they need lots of pieces around

whoever they have at quarterback. That's my sense on the giants is that teams are using the giants to be like, we'll trade up with the giants. They want a quarterback. I bet wink, wink, wink. And Denver keeps getting connected to Bo Nix. Everybody who covers Denver thinks that Sean Payton loves Bo Nix. So who covers Denver thinks that Sean Payton loves Bo Nix. So tell me, what do you think these two teams are thinking? Well, I think you laid it out pretty good. And it's been so fascinating to me that the Giants, given their situation, and I kind of smirk when you mentioned that you think they want to give Daniel Jones one more shot, which I feel like at this point we know who he is, that they're at six. And in any other draft that I can remember, it feels like, oh, you're at six,

you need a quarterback. You can just probably get one at six, or you can trade up into the top three and get your guy. It's like rare to see in any mock draft or even anyone that's super plugged in sending a quarterback to the Giants. It's either the team just leapfrogged them and they have like four picks in the top 105. Like they can move up. It's just been so weird to me because I feel like, and I kind of, I don't want to say that I know these guys very well, but like Joe Shane, the GM and Brian Dable were in Buffalo as Josh Allen blossomed. So for them to be going into their third years with the Giants, and like you mentioned, the roster is not good. To me, you're in New York

and it went from, oh my God, beating the Vikings in the playoffs to, oh man, actually that was really fluky and they probably were not really that good at all. If they start this season and it's just Daniel Jones having a three turnover game and then a four turnover game and then one good game and then three bad games like they're like I think Shane and Brian Dable will both be on the hot seat and they'll probably be like man we probably should have tried a little harder at the quarterback spot like it's just weird to me so they I'm actually going to go other side of it I feel like maybe they are trying to just lay low and be like we actually love these quarterbacks but we're not going to go other side of it. I feel like maybe they are trying to just lay low and be like,

we actually love these quarterbacks, but we're not going to make it super known. And we'll trade you next year's first, whatever it takes to get up to three or to four. We only have to move a little bit to get that quarterback. And it's funny that you mentioned Broncos and Giants together. I kind of feel like they're in the same boat, that the Broncos don't have as much ammo, but their GM, George Payton, who a lot of your listeners and viewers know very well I kind of feel like they're in the same boat that the Broncos don't have as much ammo, but their GM, George Payton, who a lot of your listeners and viewers know very well from his time in Minnesota, never afraid to make the splashy signing at the quarterback spot, did that with Russell Wilson and it didn't work out. It was one of the worst trades in NFL history. They're paying for that now. Sean Payton, I would assume is going into draft meetings and being

like, guys, can you give me a quarterback here? Can you give me someone that can operate? A lot of what we talked about with Michael Penix, what I mentioned with Bo Nix. The problem is they have pick 12 and pick 76. They don't have a second round selection. Would they, too, be okay with, hey, we'll trade you the next two years of first round picks. We got to get ahead of the Vikings. We got to get ahead of maybe the Giants.

We got to move up there it just seems I will be shocked if both of those teams are just like yeah we're gonna sit this one out and maybe if Bo Nix falls to us in the second or third round well that that's cool like what will the Broncos do like I don't even know who their quarterback is right now so those are two teams that I think are suspiciously not really mentioned a lot in the trade-up talks. Maybe it makes a little bit more sense with Denver because they don't have the ammunition. But if they both just stay put and let the Vikings just jump in front of them or a bunch of other teams pick these quarterbacks, I will actually be pretty surprised given where these GMs and these head coaches

are kind of in their timelines in their respective cities. So here's my thought when it comes to Daniel Jones and the Giants. And again, could be completely wrong. This is my theory. I'm trying to put myself inside Brian Dable and what is his name? Joe Shane. They're their shoes. So you extend Daniel Jones and it blows up in your face immediately. If you draft another quarterback, then if I'm the owner, I'm calling up and I'm going, Hey, why did you guys do that? If you wanted to draft another quarterback, like, are you guys, do you know what you're doing with quarterbacks?

Another thing is think about Matt Nagy, Mitch Trubisky. So they draft Mitch Trubisky. It doesn't work out. And his answer to try to keep his job is to draft Justin Fields. Somebody else got to develop Justin Fields, not particularly well, but somebody else ended up with inheriting him, which usually is what happens. If you tried to draft a quarterback to then go to ownership and say, Hey, just give me time. We drafted our guy two years from now. He's going to be great. If you're already several years into this and you've already hitched your wagon to

somebody else in Daniel Jones, and you've already said, no, yeah, he's worth $40 million a year. You are not going to look real great. I think to your owner, when you then have to go back and say, let's do it again, more likely than not in my mind they're looking at trying to get joe alt or there to say oh well it wasn't daniel jones fault it was the offensive line which actually there is truth to that a lot of truth and it wasn't his fault or they could be looking at malik neighbors we need a receiver because no one was open for dj that's been the problem. And they're going to try to run it back. So I'm thinking that they need this year to be in the playoffs or right in the mix

to save their jobs. Then they can think about what happens after Daniel Jones. As far as Denver goes, what everyone seems to connect with Sean Payton and Bo Nix is that he gets the ball out quickly and that, you know, here's Sean Payton who works with Drew Brees and you plug in the offense into Drew Brees is amazing bot brain. And then he throws it accurately where you tell him to throw it. This is what Sean Payton wants. He doesn't want scrambling Russell Wilson. He wants, or he doesn't care as much about physical freak tools. he cares more

about can you get the ball out and to the place that you're supposed to get it now I have no idea if this is what Sean Payton is actually thinking but it does make sense to me that if there's somebody past the first wave and they can't trade up and they don't have enough ammo especially since they sent I think a second round pick to get Sean Payton that Bo Nix and the Broncos, they fit together because of his playing style. Yeah. And I think that kind of just works out because what I mentioned earlier that they have picks 12 and 76, and they may just be like, look, we don't have the ammo to do it. And like you mentioned, there is that, I don't want to call it galaxy brain, but there's that next level of like, if I'm the GM, I have to think what, how will this look? How will this reflect on my decision-making to ownership? And if we trade up again and we're

mortgaging the future again, we're already paying Russell Wilson a big dead cap hit. And we trade up for another quarterback that may not be, instant success in the NFL, that maybe they're just like, hey, you know what? We will kind of gladly take Bo Nix. Maybe we have to trade up from 76 into the second round to get him, but it won't be as costly as doing so into the first round. So yeah, all that makes sense too, but I will just be surprised if we don't see either of those teams relatively interested or making somewhat of an effort to get one of the top tier quarterbacks. But then again, maybe you're right. Maybe they're just like, let's just kind of keep the status quo and see if we can get the best out of it. So it's not like

the next head coach or GM is ultimately the ones developing these quarterbacks next season. CBS sports draft analyst, Chris Tris trapasso it's just a good time to be alive isn't it chris we're closing in we got two more shows before the actual nfl draft and then one of my favorites of the year when you break down every vikings pick in the following week's show so really just three more weeks for us we're going to look at jayden daniels next week along with michael pennix a little closer go back and look at their best games along with talking about whatever rumors and visits that we have but uh we're getting close man and talk about favorite shows of the year when we do our final mock which will be the tuesday before the draft so when you

hit jordan edison last year closing in that's, I did Jordan Addison. We got to remind people. I think I reminded at the start of this draft show in January that you hit on Jordan Addison. I don't know if that was inside info or just your huge brain, your huge Vikings brain, just knowing what they probably would do. So we definitely have to do that. And it is my favorite show for as much as it's so fun talking about and speculating rumors, prospect evaluations. This episode, we kind of got a good mix of that. I felt afterward being like, all right, here's where I had these guys graded. I can't change anything. Here's my evaluation. You tell me about the fit. Does it make sense? Does Ed Ingram make sense? Does he not? Things like that. I love that draft show immediately following the draft.

Well, it should be very good, man. Thanks for your conversation and assistance in helping me understand these guys that were visiting the Vikings today as always. And thank you all for listening slash watching. And we're getting close folks. We're getting close football, football.