Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Friday roundtable: Arif Hasan of The Athletic talks Russell Wilson, Vikings cap and JJ Watt

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

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What's up, Arif? Hey, not much. What's up with you? Now, since not much, not much, just hiring Sam, hanging around the house. I know, Biggie. Speaking of which, you guys did a podcast for a long time, The Football Machine, which was very good, and then I kind of bought it out. So now we're doing this.

And so I wanted to do a football machine style podcast with you, Arif, and you, Sam. So Sam has come up with five questions, and he's going to lead the discussion. I will act as the guest also on this podcast. So Sam, take it away with wherever you want to take it with your five questions for me and Arif. Well, how about this? A couple of Zone Coverage alums and Matthew Collar on the Purple Insider podcast today. Thanks, everybody, for listening. So to be as contrarian as possible, we're going to do a five answers format today.

I'm going to give you guys five answers answers and you will come up with the question you can take it in any direction you want um as long as it's phrased in the form of a question so a little bit of a jeopardy twist here's the first answer in our five answers of the day let russ cook matthew let's start with you. What is the question? So I'm supposed to ask what the question is. What will Russell Wilson's new team do for him? Let Russ cook. Last year, right, the Seattle Seahawks decided they were really going to lean into Russell Wilson throwing the ball all the time,

and then they just bailed on that about halfway through the season when they felt like they were giving up too many points and they needed to control the ball on the ground and so now Russell Wilson reportedly wants out and there is a rift between Wilson and the Seattle Seahawks which I gotta say guys I did not exactly see coming did you did anybody else think Russell Wilson will join Deshaun Watson on wanting to leave his football team this offseason? I did not think that that was going to happen. It's crazy. A quarterback of that caliber who seemed like so in lockstep with his head coach and his GM.

And it seemed like kumbaya in Seattle. And apparently it's not. Adam Schefter tweeted today that he hasn't demanded a trade, mind you. He has not demanded a trade, but he did drop the hint that if there were a trade, he'd like to go to maybe the Cowboys, the Saints, the Raiders, or the Bears. I don't want to stomp on a reef here, though. What is your question to the answer? Oh, it was what will be written on Pete Carroll's gravestone. Wow. That's potentially ruthless.

Yeah. Why didn't you let Russ Cook would be the question. Why didn't you get a better offensive line? Why did you draft a running back and a linebacker in the first round? There's a lot of questions here. Let me sort of bounce something back at you, Arefa, on this matter. Bears? Bears? How are the bears how how are the bears mentioned as a potential team that russell wilson would want to go to i totally understand all right saints you get to go there and throw to michael thomas and

elvin kamara and play with sean payton dallas it's dallas bears explain bears i i think i think it's Dallas Bears explain Bears I think I think it's just because there's this wide conception right that uh the the Bears have gotten into the playoffs despite their quarterback imagine what they can do with their quarterback and you know at a base level I agree they do have a pretty good defense or at least they've got good defensive players um the problem of course is that you know the only reason the offense was able to keep up is because of Allen Robinson. Allen Robinson's hitting free agency. If you franchise him, are you going to have enough money to trade for Russ? I have no idea what the Bears cap situation is, but that feels difficult to me.

It's not awesome. It's not awesome. None of the four candidates are great situations. Dallas has space, but they also don't have a quarterback signed right now, which is why they have space. That makes Dallas perfect, right? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I feel like you just think, hey, the Bears have made the playoffs a couple of times.

They did it despite not having a quarterback. I'm a quarterback. I can fix the Bears. And, of course, he immediately becomes the greatest quarterback in Bears franchise history, which I guess he already was for Seattle too, which I mean, that's kind of a cool title to have. It's like him and Peyton Manning have done it for two teams. I guess if you're a John Elway stan, you don't believe that, but honestly, yes. Wow. I also thought though that, I mean, that's part of it is like

you get to have the legacy if you win a Super Bowl with the Bears of being the greatest quarterback to ever play for the Bears and somebody who took an all-time great franchise to the Super Bowl. But I also think that him believing that going there would be much different than Seattle. I'm not sure how much better their defense really is for the long term. They have a couple of good players still, but it has fallen off quite a bit over the last couple of years. And that's part of the reason I corrected myself. They've got good defensive players.

I don't know if they'll continue to have a good defense going forward, especially like, what are they going to have to give up in a trade for Russell Wilson? They probably have to give up some of those defensive players, right? Like, you know, in my, in, in my building up of a Deshaun Watson trade, I was like, well, the Bears probably have to give up Khalil Mack. And then it feels like, oh, my God, what's the point? I think it's still worth it. Obviously, it's a quarterback. But, you know, if if Deshaun Watson's asking prices somewhere around five mid first round picks or something like that. Right. You have to give up something because you're not going to be able to trade your know your first round pick four years out five years out so you're probably going to have to

give up someone like a Khalil Mack and so uh with that in mind you know what do you have to are you going to be able to maintain that defense with you know you don't have an edge rusher on either side you don't have a first round pick to get an edge rusher you've got Akeem Hicks and Eddie Goldman and that's your defensive line great you're stopping the run and maybe getting a little bit of pressure with Hicks. But now you're really getting to see if like, you know, that safety group is as good as you think, if Kyle Fuller can maintain that level of play, which, you know, he has and he hasn't. Yeah, it's tough. But yeah, I think it's more good defensive players than a good defense. But I don't know, players are just not typically all that great at talent evaluation and they don't need to be generally but you know when it comes to

Allen Robinson selecting a franchise and deciding that you know he wants to go to one with a good quarterback and he lands on the Bears I mean that's what ends up happening so I'm not shocked I guess yeah no I sort of get it um how about this for another answer sam is um something that will always continue to happen against the vikings no matter where he goes is it interesting is it interesting to you sam or arif that minnesota does not end up on this list for russell wilson or would you think that wilson would just say well why would i want to join the team that i always beat anyway yeah i feel like there's probably some recency bias too like oh the team that had the 29th best defense or like was a kind of a bad team last year um why would i want to go there even though

it does seem a little appealing to play with justin jefferson and dalvin cook but what what is russell wilson dealt with forever in seattle like bad pass blocking and he's not exactly upgrading that situation in Minnesota either. Can we talk about the Raiders for a second? What are the Raiders doing on this? Hold on, hold on, Arif. Don't step on my touchdown call here. My question to the answer is,

what is the catchphrase that folks will be uttering on the Las Vegas Strip next year? Because I'm into the Raiders. I just think that it's a very Mayock Gruden-esque kind of move. It is. I don't think they are married to Derek Carr. Derek Carr would be the Garoppolo in this trade if Wilson was the Cousins because Derek Carr's got no dead money.

It's like $2 million. So the Seahawks could get a bunch of picks. I'm guessing two first round picks minimum uh and derrick carr they could kind of reset uh if they want a ball control offense derrick carr is a ball control quarterback that's perfect and i just think that sierra would fit in great on the las vegas trip you could have a permanent residency it's true uh maybe that's why that's why the raiders ended up on the list. I don't know.

It just feels like, I guess if you're like a true competitor, which I guess Russell Wilson is, it'd be fun to go toe-to-toe against the Holmes and stuff like that. But I don't know if the Raiders are the team that I'd want to go toe-to-toe with the Holmes with. I mean, yeah, I think that that receiving force probably. They beat them last year. They did.

Do you expect that to continue happening? No, just throwing it out there. But, yeah, I think they've got an underrated receiving core. I don't know if that offensive line is as good as it seems because Derek Carr gets rid of the ball in 2.1 seconds to a receiver half a yard down the field. Although, with Darren Waller, that has changed. I mean, Derek Carr has thrown it deeper this year.

But I don't know. I mean mean that defense isn't all there I know the Raiders just don't seem poised to do much I mean admittedly the defense to do very well against Patrick Mahomes but that's about it you know what what team I'm a little surprised that it would not be on this list and maybe it's because he couldn't be the best quarterback in the franchise's history but Denver just seems like such an attractive place for any quarterback. I mean, you have all sorts of weapons. You have a team that's going to pass the football, that they've really designed their offense to pass the football with at least two or three very, very good wide receivers

that have been taken high in the draft. Or Cortland Sutton coming back. And Noah Fant. Right, and Noah Fant is starting to develop into the player that they thought he would be, and they need to fix some offensive line things. But that is a team in that division that probably won't overtake Kansas City with Mahomes, but will be right there and could battle with them. And plus, I think they do have sustainable good defense if they stick with Vic Fangio.

They will not have good clock management, but they will have good defense in that case. I also wonder what you guys think of just in general. Are the Vikings any kind of destination at this point? Because, okay, he's not on Russell Wilson's list, the Vikings aren't. That's fine. I mean, whatever. He seems to have really weirdly picked his list because he's a weird guy. I mean, they are destination cities, chicago dallas new orleans las vegas yeah plus teams that can use a quarterback so i think that was the the two criteria but yeah as for like minnesota slash minneapolis um yeah i remember when sheldon we asked sheldon richardson like hey so what why why minnesota and he was like these are the best facilities in the league like you like he was a college recruit for something right yeah yeah it was very weird um that i imagine is very low

on the list of priorities for most players yes um if if the vikings are going to attract anybody they have to be an already good team yes uh which is which is what has led people to the Vikings before when they've won free agency battles. But otherwise, they're getting third or fourth free agents or weird people like Alex Boone, who very much had a commitment to the location. Not that Alex Boone chose Minneapolis because he was weird, but rather his regional preference was very weird, just very unusual, which I hear is a preference that Brandon Sheriff has if we want to throw some gas on the fire. There's speculation there. But, yeah, I mean, aside from people who are like, yeah, I just love the cold,

give it to me, you have to already be a good team if Minnesota is going to attract anybody. I think that's right, and I also think that in 2018, you have to already be a good team if Minnesota is going to attract anybody. I think that's right. And I also think that, you know, in 2018, Mike Zimmer and the Vikings are looked at as sort of, wow, what a premier franchise in the league at this moment in time. They just paid Kirk Cousins. They're going to go to the next level.

They're going to compete for a Super Bowl. And if I'm Sheldon Richardson, I'm going to be on national TV a lot, sacking some quarterbacks and getting my next contract, where now it kind of looks like the whole thing is a little bit in disarray where you have a very expensive quarterback and a team with a lot of needs. And if you're one of those top players who says, you know, put me on the national TV games, put me in the spotlight, because I'm ready to win a Super Bowl, this just really isn't going to be your place. So I think they're going to have to be players with a lot of smaller free agents than they are.

Of course, if you trade for someone, they're forced to come here anyway. But when it comes to the other stuff, trying to recruit people, they're kind of in a tough spot. So Sam, if you want to move on to your next one, I've taken it far down a different rabbit hole. You guys did a pretty good job with the answers or the the questions for the first one i think you can do better with number two it's a very simple answer the answer is jj watt let's start with a reef what is your question uh who are the packers going to sign that's going to define the division for the next three years um that that's the direction i thought you might go in, and I think it's worth evaluating what the likelihood is that J.J. Watt winds up in

Wisconsin. I think, though, it's an interesting dynamic because he's got the hometown angle, but he's also got the family angle in Pittsburgh, right? And my question is, since we're going down this road, who will sign a massive contract in Pittsburgh and steal the money his brother was supposed to receive? TJ Watt is also due for a contract extension in Pittsburgh. So you've got a couple of different polls there. And I don't know which one would be stronger. Well, I think was it Diana Rossini reported that Pittsburgh's now out of the equation, which I find kind of interesting. So it's I wish I could find the tweet now. I can't.

But it's like the Packers. Because Big Ben's going to demand all the money that they would otherwise use. Yeah, exactly. The Bills are an outside shot, which I mean, I find that funny because now their fans on Twitter, now that I'm not like making fun of Josh Allen, now their fans on Twitter are a laugh riot. I love them. Whenever J.J. Watt tweets, they, like, find some crazy random connection to Buffalo to say that he's actually tweeting about Buffalo bleakly.

Like, one of his most recent tweets was something about naps. It was not that interesting. But, like, in the replies immediately, Buffalo fans are posting, like, links to the Niagara Sleep Center and stuff like that. Like, absolutely hilarious stuff. But, yeah, I guess Pittsburgh's out of it, which I find kind of interesting. And if, like, a sentimental connection is important to him, then the Packers, I would imagine, would be very high on that list then. I'll give you my answer, and then I've got –

Your question, Carl. Sorry, my question. Right, yeah, okay. And then just a thought on him and the Packers. My question is, who is Kevin Stefanski's first big signing in Cleveland? It's J.J. Watt. I am thinking J.J. Watt will go to Cleveland because he's going to look at it as Pittsburgh is a descending team. Roethlisberger is old. Baltimore seems to be

kind of stuck in this middle type of area. And as long as Baltimore keeps the same offensive coordinator and pathetic passing game, I don't think that they're a legitimate Super Bowl contender. So if you're J.J. Watt, you're thinking it's kind of Midwestern. It's sort of close to Pittsburgh. I don't know if people know how close it is to Pittsburgh. It's like really close if he wants to visit his brother. And, you know, if it's the sort of ascending team that the Vikings would have presented themselves as once upon a time and a team that suddenly, and this is where it always depends on the players and winning and who's coaching,

but suddenly feels like it has a good culture under Kevin Stefanski and an exciting young quarterback, all those things and money to pay JJ Watt, which if I'm JJ Watt, I mean, is still at the top of my priority list. Where can I win? But also who's going to pay me? Now, my question for you guys that is a question instead of an answer is just if Watt signs with the Packers, how much does it really help them? Because, I mean, yes, he's still good at football, but he's not dominant like he used to be at one time, and he's very expensive.

I'm just not sure that I see this as a good idea for the Green Bay Packers. Does anybody agree with that? It kind of depends on whether or not they think Preston Smith is done, what they're going to do with Rashawn Gary. But I think that you can find a way to put all of them on the field, Darius Smith, Rashawn Gary, J.J. Watt, and Kenny Clark. And both Rashawn Gary and J.J. Watt can play on the inside sometimes. I think you can run some very creative stunts and blitzes.

Now, how much does it help you to upgrade what is essentially your fourth pass rusher, even if all four are going to be on the field? Probably not as much as, you know, finding a replacement for Kevin King or whatever. But, I mean, I don't know. Defensive coordinators have loved the idea of having additional pass rush and stuff like that more than seems to be healthy if the analytics are any good indication of cost of performance ratios. So does it help the Packers?

I mean, like from an absolute sense, yes. From a relative sense in terms of what other money that you can spend, probably not. But I still would not be happy about it if I were a Vikings fan. Right. Because it's very difficult to celebrate, like the opportunity cost of signing JJ Watt. Like, ah, they could have signed. I guess there aren't any really good cornerbacks in the market. They could have signed William Jackson, you know, too bad. I mean, is it worth the amount of cost that is going to go into it when they have a lot of other needs and a cap situation that's very bad?

So, you know, I think if you're the Vikings, of course, you don't want to face any more pass rushers than Green Bay already has. But it's also about, you know, the long term of how are they going to look over the next couple of years. But I guess that we're also talking about a team that really isn't looking long term and is trying to win they even though even though they drafted jordan love like they like they thought they were going to have to look long term then they went oh my god aaron rogers can still play so hey i mean i would almost give them credit for changing directions to a win now type of approach yeah no i mean uh maybe they'll try to receive her this time um yeah i mean that

would be uh kind of fascinating if they did end up signing J.J. Watt because it would be a clear, like, kind of reprioritization of the way that they're approaching, you know, player acquisition and stuff like that. But I actually, I really like this Cleveland idea in part because also I think it might play to J.J. Watt wanting to be a little bit of a savior, right, Because he gets to put his face on the Cleveland rebrand, even though it happened a year before he arrived, being the one to help turn around the franchise. I think that that would be kind of huge,

which I don't want to insult him too much. I mean, I think that that's inherently appealing to be the one that helps turn around the franchise. So I don't want to get too down on it. But I think that the incentives there are are pretty fascinating for a lot plus you're right i mean it is really close to pittsburgh plus he automatically gets to see his brother two times a year anyway um and rub it in his face when he wins which i mean everybody wants to do that to their brother so um i i like the pittsburgh

idea a lot and i think um one interesting thing is if cleveland does end up winning the super bowl there's got to be some number of vik Vikings fans that are going to like vicariously celebrate it and even claim it a little bit because of Kevin Stefanski, which they didn't really do with Mike Tomlin. They were just like mad that the Vikings couldn't keep him. But I could totally see Vikings fans attaching themselves to a Stefanski win. There is a Stefanski angle that on this show I haven't really talked about a whole lot of, hey, do you miss Kevin Stefanski or kind of wish that they went the Kevin Stefanski route, having seen what he did in Cleveland. And I think that, at least from my understanding, that the answer is it wouldn't just be fans

who were missing Kevin Stefanski and seeing him. It would be some people inside of TCO Performance Center. They would be saying, man, we missed a little bit on Kevin Stefanski. Some people inside TCO Performance Center saying, I told you so. Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this came as really no surprise. I mean, he goes to a situation where they had a completely incompetent coach

before in Freddy Kitchens. So the bar is already extremely low. And he's got an opportunity with a young quarterback in a team that has a bunch of cap space and has been adding players and has been drafting players high. It's like a great situation if you just don't look at the logo on the front and say it's the Cleveland Browns. Otherwise, it's one of the situations as a coach you'd want to go to because they were just primed to ascend. At the same time, having been around Kevin Stefanski and having covered Kevin Stefanski and talked to numerous people that have worked with him on the inside, it's not surprising that he would be effective

on the offensive side, that he would take Baker Mayfield to a new level, that he would also create sort of this situation and culture of much more stability than an unprofessional type of place with Freddie Kitchens. He's the exact opposite of Freddie Kitchens in terms of his personality. But where I'm sure some people in Minnesota were missing him is that he was not a Zimmer type. I mean, he wasn't the, I'm going to cuss you out all the time kind of coach. He was much more of a let's break this down analytically with players.

And I think that some folks would have maybe appreciated that change in the atmosphere. So Sam, if you want to move on, there's just a, just an aside on Kevin Stefanski. No, I like it. I think Stefanski sort of ran the perfect calibration of the offense he learned under Kubiak. I think he made it, like, a little less extreme, a little more fun, and it worked out really well for the Browns.

And their quarterback play wasn't even, like, spectacular. And it was still really effective last year. And they lost OBJ, which I think is impressive. And I apologize if there's any Internet issues for me right now because it says my Internet connection is unstable, which is really unsettling. You've been zoinking a little. Answer number three.

It's very wide open open-ended 10 million dollars yeah how much money did the vikings need to clear up uh in order to get back under the cap hey everyone i want to tell you about our friends at scout logistics and i really do mean it when i say friends they are fans of purple insider over at scout logistics and since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America.

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I think I'm going to go with, sorry if you were going to expand on that, Arif. I'm going to go with the absolute maximum the Vikings could pay one player on the salary cap this year if they do a million other things, if they restructure and they cut people and they make all the other changes. I still – tell me if you disagree, Arif. I still don't think they could go over $10 million average annual value for almost anybody. That one is tough. I think that the reason that that might not be the case is just because um of of the weird cap mechanics you can do to get a player in their first year

the deal only costs like four or five million dollars even though they're like an 18 million dollar average annual value guy the biggest problem is that there's a huge incentive for players to seek short-term deals this year unlike most years just because just because, hey, the cap is going to go up again. We're hearing all this news about, you know, a new TV deal that's going to like double the cost of NFL programming to channels and then therefore theoretically double the revenue to the NFL. And if that's the case, then yeah, I'd want to get back into free agency immediately if I was a player.

And, you know, normally I'm seeking out security and guarantees and making sure that I don't get cut. And certain players in certain circumstances might just prefer that. But I think that a lot of players and players are the kinds of people that bet on themselves because they beat almost literally impossible odds to even get into the NFL. If I'm that kind of player, which most players are, I'm going to bet on myself to just sign a one-year contract

and then hit free agency again. And that does not fit very well with the Vikings cap situation, where if they want to get some high-value players under the cap, they're going to have to kick the can down the road like they've done two consecutive years with Kirk Cousins, or two consecutive deals with Kirk Cousins. So I don't know that $10 million is the absolute maximum AAV that they can pursue. But it's probably wise if they thought of it like that, you know, which, you know, is going to limit, you know, the potential free agents. There aren't a bunch of good mid-value guards in the market. And that's kind of one of the bigger areas of need.

Like after Joe Thune, it just kind of drops off into a bunch of backups. So, yeah, it'll be tough. areas of need like after joe thune just kind of drops off into a bunch of backups um so uh yeah it'll be tough but i mean the vikings uh on a projected cap of was it 180 now um they are like literally 9.5 million dollars over so that's my my answer was just very factual it doesn't have a ton of room for discussion on top of it so it was actually a bad question right so um well that's okay i'll forgive you. Or while I guess Sam's in charge of deciding if you're forgiven or not today, but, you know, I was, I guess I was thinking about from the 10 million is how much more do they want to do this?

Like they have done all these contracts that are five years and the first year is $5 million, but then the second year is 10. and then the third year is 20. And they've structured it this way for quite some time. And maybe they do, maybe they do want to keep doing this. But I also think that usually results in you get to a point where, Oh, we've got to cut everyone or restructure everyone.

And that sort of game that just goes on and on and on. And maybe you do get to a point again where you feel like oh we have to do that because of the cap situation and because we're ready to win and i'm certain that spielman and zimmer want to win right now um i just even wonder from an ownership perspective like do we want to dole out the cash this way with the signing bonuses and all that sort of stuff like is that wise to do again, knowing what situation you ultimately put yourself in? Or would it be better, like you said, Arif,

I mean, even to just look at a couple of players who kind of might have had a down year or something last year. I was thinking about this for three technique. Like, there are not very many defensive tackles who you'd say, take all my money. But there's like seven of them who you'd say, what if you took a little money, see if you get some sacks next to Michael Pierce or whatever, you know,

or next to Daniil Hunter. Like what if you do that and then you can get more money next year, like Sheldon Richardson's, like Kawan Short is a guy that comes to mind. Like if you, Jarrell Casey got released, like if you took a little money, then just for one year, you come in here make an impact and then see what happens down the road i think they kind of have to look at those guys instead of who can we sign to a big five-year 50 million dollar deal yeah i think the only issue is you

know once you get to the third day of the league you're you're committed to cousins for two years because the guarantee kicks in and like i mean what are you gonna do i mean you have to pursue a win now strategy if you've got a quarterback taking up 40 million dollars of your cap uh and you can't do anything about it so um either you can try and blow up and rebuild early and try to get a bunch of young players into the building um i don't know how you do that if if your biggest asset is untradeable i guess you could trade daniel hunter in which case I think you're kind of screwing yourself because he's a young core player as part of any rebuild.

But I think that you just kind of commit yourself to it. I think that you just kind of throw yourself into the cap situation that screws you in about three or four years just because you are committed to this idea

that you can win now and you've got a quarterback that it takes up the amount of money that kind of necessitates that you win now. What do you think, Sam? I think that my clock management's been poor. I'm like the drill. And I also apologize if my voice is on a delay because my computer is just nuts right now so let me move on to the next answer um and let you guys uh converse the answer is a second round pick what's the question go ahead arif i don't have one uh neither do the vikings right uh hey uh how what are the vikings going to magically acquire and defy all odds? Regardless of kind of what you feel about Rick Spielman,

and there's a lot of opinions that I think have a lot of merit, you know, positive and negative, he is really remarkably good at trading during the draft. Like, he's just nuts at that. And I would not be shocked if he just acquired a second round pick on like a wish and a prayer like you just like the commissioner is just like yeah according to this weird obscure rule the vikings have unearthed we have to give them a second round pick just something right i mean i imagine they're going to trade back in the first round and you know given all the mock drafts i've

seen it doesn't seem like the vikings are in a super great spot to get a ton of value at 14 unless, you know, that edge rusher from Michigan falls. I could see them, and they don't like taking edge rushers in the first two rounds, right? So they might not even like that idea. So I could see them trading back in the first and acquiring a second, you know, maybe if one of those four quarterbacks falls and, you know, there's a team that wants to trade up. So that's what I think is going to happen. I think that they'll end up acquiring a second round pick through some chicanery my question would be what do you regret trading for yanni i mean well you know i was just looking and not that i didn't know them before but writing them down sometimes when you write something down it really sinks in and I wrote down in an article the second round picks that they've had recently and every one of them seems to be a hit we'll see

on Ezra Cleveland but I mean you go back to Eric Hendricks is a superstar second round pick Delvin Cook it's a running back I know but you got the top three running back in the entire NFL with that pick Irv Smith looks like he's an ascending player who's going to take over his tight end one and then we'll see on Ezra Cleveland at least he looked like last year he could play in the NFL but you get Brian O'Neill who's about to sign a big contract extension and is a very solid right tackle for you those are your second round picks And one of the reasons I think that maybe teams won't want to give the Vikings a second round pick is A, because they're going to feel on less solid ground than they've ever felt about the NFL draft.

Since maybe, I don't know, the very beginnings of the NFL draft where they were calling up local coaches on a rotary phone and being like, what do you think of that player there? Coach, I've heard good things. But there are guys that they're going to be drafting in the first round who have not played in over a year because they opted out. And there are going to be guys who you don't get a real combine or you're interviewing them on Zoom rather than having them in your building.

And one thing we know about the NFL is that they get it right in general, that they get the most talented players, right. They're drafted in the first round. It's not like we see seventh rounders having first rounder careers all the time. And the NFL is just clueless, right?

Know who the guys are. And this year they know less of who the guys are. So if I'm a team with a second round pick and the Vikings call me like, no, cause I might be getting a first round talent. And I just don't realize it because I haven't gotten a good enough sample size on that player. So I think it's going to be really tough for them,

and even if they're able to get back into the second round at some point, they have to give up something else to get there. Maybe that Stephon Diggs fourth-round pick helps a little in that way, or maybe they can use the Ravens pick. But a lot of regrets there from the very moment that they had to trade him because he wasn't a fit. And as we get closer to draft season and you look at all the talent through the first and second round, you go, whew, not having a pick between 14 and 78, I mean, that really hurts. That's a big drop off. Let me make one point on this. And my

question was, for a second round pick, what do you get for a third round pick and all four of the Vikings fourth round picks? Because I looked at the trade value chart. You have to give up like all of the mid round picks if you wanted to move up into the second round. So either... That sounds really stupid. You trade a player. either you trade a player and get the second, or you trade back in the first round, which is far, far easier than trading up into the second round. That's why I'm team trade back, because as Collar said, the second round picks are so valuable because they're so, so cheap.

Yeah, one thing that Bill Barnwell mentioned in an article he wrote, I think his most recent article, um, is this is a perfect environment to attempt to trade back. Now, obviously if every team thinks that it's no longer a perfect environment to attempt to trade back, but, um, yeah, because the talent in this draft has not reduced. The uncertainty has increased, but the talent is the same. And so that, I think, is how GMs have to think about this draft, is that the uncertainty in my evaluations are going to be more, the uncertainty in the NFL's evaluations in general are going to increase. But the same number of players that are great are going to be here as they would in a typical draft. So I'm just going to have to take more shots because I'm not going to know my shots are gonna be good enough um and so yeah teams should absolutely trade back especially in this environment yep for sure on on team trade back especially you know when you look at the vikings anytime you do a draft sim which tells us all the truths of the world yeah um but you look at it and you're like well if you traded back into the mid-20s how different are you for what you need for the positions you need like Like there are multiple tackles.

There are multiple edge rushers. There are a couple of corners. One of them might fall. There's Trayvon Mooring who might be there, the guy from TCU, the safety. There's so many different guys that would be a very, very good fit for you that trading back to try and somehow get yourself into that second round is good but if i'm if i'm a gm and someone calls for my second round pick i'm like not not this year my friend not this year we've got one more answer left in the show it is hard knocks

2021 ask me a question about hard knocks 2021 aif. Who are we going to have the most difficulty finding? No, that doesn't work. The phrasing didn't really work out there. I got one. I got one. A thing that I don't really care about anymore. What is a thing that I don't really care about anymore? I mean, it's just, look.

It's no longer as interesting. I mean, for one, we've kind of seen all there is to see in some ways. But then when the Antonio Brown thing went down and it was just little like kind of peeks around the corner at the Antonio Brown thing rather than an actual full insider look at it, and the team can say, no, sorry, you can't show that stuff. It's become more PR and less journalism over the years. Right. I mean, I went back last year and watched the Cincinnati one that Mike Zimmer was a part of, and it's so good. I mean, just...

It's amazing. It really was. Even the Jets one, right, was phenomenal. Yes. Right? It was like revolutionary to be that inside a football team as they prepared. And those guys, this happened with hockey too, where they did lead up to the first outdoor game.

And the interviews, the guys just said whatever. They seemed to not understand what was going on. So they were just talking pretty openly. And then all of it was out there. And as soon as, of course, the league sees that and gets the feedback and the teams see that and everything else, then it's, eh, let's kind of close it down a little bit we don't want that stuff out there which i get i get teams don't want the distractions they don't want to be a headline every week because of

hard knocks but you know last year watching the guys get their noses tested for covid just didn't do it for me like i kind of weird it just. I feel like I used to really learn something about how the inner workings of a team went, and I especially loved when there were meetings with players and there were coaches ripping players, things like that. They just don't really show that stuff now. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, one of the most interesting things from recent hard knocks had to be uh when um when uh eric kendricks's brother michael michael kendricks was traded um to the browns and he gave a scouting report on foals that was maybe

and that seems that's so much less interesting than the most interesting thing from like the previous hard knocks right but that one was so interesting because he was like yeah the the trajectory of the ball has this teardrop uh so you got to be ready for it it is an interceptable ball but it is kind of tough to see and like eagles fans took it really weirdly they were like i can't believe he insulted fools when all he was doing was giving a scouting report and then you saw that it right and then it turned into a pick like that was yeah crazy cool yeah it put to bed the notion that former players don't rat on their their old team because this was a preseason game that they were getting a scouting report

on a quarterback from a linebacker, which is wild. My question, by the way, which HBO show would the Giants be the most boring candidate for? Because I saw there were five candidates, the Giants, the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Panthers, and the Broncos. And honestly, four of those five I think are fairly interesting. How about the Panthers? The Panthers don't seem that interesting. I think the Panthers could be interesting if they, like, make some noise. I think that's a team that's –

Great for Watson. Yeah, they're linked to some big things. I think Broncos could be interesting. The Cardinals sound fascinating. I like that. Yeah, Cardinals would be awesome, I think. With Hop and Kyler and obviously

Kingsbury. But yeah, the Giants, I don't care. icon shirts or the Mick Goldenlight snowmobile designs. All of these along with great football designs like the skull hats, football state beanies and hoodies, and my favorite, the Metrodome gear. If you use the promo code Purple Insider, you can get free shipping. Just go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. All of their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. You know what's interesting? I asked Mike Zimmer, I think

it was last year, uh hard knocks or not last year it would have been two years ago because last year i was forced to stay 1 000 feet away from anything football uh except for the reporters where we got to stand near like some weeds and watch from a long way away that james lynch couldn't play defensive tackle uh anyway sorry james lynch you didn't deserve that. Yes, you did. But his answer was interesting because I thought Zimmer would be like, hard knocks, get out of my face. Like, I don't want them in my building.

But, you know, actually he said he loved being on hard knocks. And he said it was really a fun experience. And he was still friends with some of the people who were producers and things like that and said, like, yeah, I wouldn't mind being on Hard Knocks again. It was a very stunning answer because I assumed he would be, I don't want any stuff out there or whatever else. So it really is just us who annoy him, I guess, and not Hard Knocks. Well, some of us. Hard Knocks, yeah, some of us.

But Hard Knocks also made him look really cool, though. It did, yeah. It was good accidental PR for him, for sure. Yes, with him just going nuts on the sideline on his team in preseason and telling them to cut the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep with all the things. But that, I mean, yeah, when it was great, it was truly great. And now it's just kind of like, I don't know. It's all right.

It's a puff piece. Right. If someone tells me there's something there that i need to see i'll go see it but that's kind of watch the because they'll put the the clip that's good like on youtube or on the internet not copyright strike it so i watch it for the credit scene the credit scene is always the best one of the show oh yeah they're pretty funny yeah yeah so um before we wrap this up, I want to ask you, Arif, the same question I asked Courtney last week to wrap up, which is, when do you think stuff's going to happen with the Vikings? Oh, my God. I thought it was going to happen today, honestly. I mean, yeah, as we get to, like, you know, things heating up and rumors,

and this would have been around the combine time, so, you know, maybe that's part of the reason why, because everybody's not in the same rooms together and bumping into each other, getting coffee and things like that, that we haven't had a little more movement. But, yeah, I'm a little bit surprised that we haven't had anything yet, not a cut or a restriction. Not even trade rumors, right no cut no not even trade rumors

right like all the trade rumors are like x team is interested in kirk cousins and it's like well that doesn't get us very far like who cares right right if if if uh if the vikings are interested in trading kyle rudolph yeah okay i'll i'll talk about that right but you know they haven't leaked anything they clearly have not had very many discussions with players or agents because those agents also want to get stuff done so they'll probably put stuff in that out there so yeah we haven't seen i thought it'd be today just because you know it's the day after the franchise tag window opens uh and so some other movement around the league might spur the vikings to begin moving stuff um they need to have conversations about like player movement and stuff

and the vikings have said i don't know if they've actually lived up to this idea, but they've said in the past, essentially, once we know that we don't want, that we need to move on from a player, I think is the phrasing they use. We don't want the player anymore is probably not the phrasing they would like. That we want to move on from a player, we want to let them know as soon as possible and let them kind of explore their options which is kind of how they handled uh like for example everson griffin right which i think backfired but you know whatever um yeah i if that's true and you know i'm a little suspicious but if that's true they gotta know that there's some of these players

that they don't want on the roster anymore right they should probably call them and let them know that they uh that they can hit free agency. And as a favor to them, they can choose their team without having to compete with, like, the actual best player at their position. You think Rudolph is first to get cut? I think so. I think, I mean, he's making noise, right? So it doesn't have to be, like, an object lesson or anything like that,

but it would make sense to let him go. Because I feel like if you're Rudolph and you see somebody else get cut and they didn't even request to be released, I mean, I would be really ticked off. I'd be more stunned than any other offseason move if he stayed, I think. I agree. Well, I mean, we anticipated this two years ago when he signed the extension. We all said, yeah, he's probably not going to be a Viking. He's got to be a Viking next year year because of the guarantee but he's not going

to be a viking for the year after that this is that year this is the year we anticipated he wouldn't be a viking so the writing's been there on the wall um he's performed fine but not so stunningly well that you need to find a way to keep him um both tyler conklin and nerve smith especially conklin have stepped up uh in situations you've needed them to. So it's the perfect scenario for him to just kind of find another team. I mean, obviously the Vikings really value his commitment to the community and stuff like that, but that's not how business decisions are made. You're right. The day that they signed him, this was the way they set it up

to be able to move on at this moment if they needed to. So, well, Arif, this was great. Throughout the offseason, you're going to join us on a semi-regular basis to have machine reunions here with myself and Sam. So I appreciate all of your time. Good stuff. And Sam, I felt like we kind of got it, like after a little while. At first, you're like, how exactly do I phrase my questions?

But we got into a rhythm. It was like mid-season where you see the offenses on the same page, things like that. Our defensive communication was good. We eventually got there. Yeah, you read your keys well. I still think you're at like an OTAs level. Yeah, you're probably right.

We need to develop. We'll pick up the long go, but we've made progress. Yeah, I mean, you'll get used to nonsense games when you have a refund and I'm leading the discussion. We'll play Memory Frenzy at some point, which, Collar, I think you'll dominate at. Yeah, you'll kill it. I'm no good at this.

Yeah, Luke Inman was always really, really good at it. But it tests the footballiest of football trivia pieces of your brain. Well, I just need to hear some pads popping is what I need to get to that point. So, Arif, great to have you on. Great stuff. Read him at The Athletic, of course. And we will do this again very soon. Thanks, guys.

Thanks for having me. Thanks, Collin. Thanks, Arif.