Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Friday Roundtable ft. The Athletic's Arif Hasan: How does the outlook of recent draft picks impact this year's draft?

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

Matthew Coller and Intern Paul (who is technically no longer an intern) talk with Arif Hasan of The Athletic about how the Vikings are finally in a position to draft the best player available and how the progress of Garrett Bradbury, Irv Smith Jr. and Cam Dantzler will impact the future. We touch on the lack of depth at multiple positions being a driver for the trade down thought process except for when a quarterback is in play. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Scout Logistics and Symbol, your stock market for sports. It is the Friday roundtable and filling in for Sam Ekstrom, his intern Paul, Paul Hodowanek, no longer an intern, and Arif Hasan from The Athletic. What is up, Arif? Not much, just arguing about pro day times on the internet. Oh, it has been a time.

This draft season, I don't know, maybe it's because everyone is still home and not doing anything, Arif, but i feel like this draft season has been the biggest bleep show of all previous draft seasons and maybe it's because there's a lot of quarterbacks that could also add to it uh you have no nfl combine lots of quarterbacks and it just seems like non-stop endless debate oh yeah no it's um it pretty real. I don't think it was as bad as... What year did Josh Allen come out? 2018? Oh, 2018. Yeah. think it's just a little bit different where like because all of these quarterback prospects are like just verifiably really great and so you just kind of have to manufacture some debate so in that way it's it's a little bit more annoying with the josh allen stuff i thought we had a leg to stand on in terms of like i don't know about this i mean he turned out great so you know i guess i was wrong

but um at least you had something to work with whereas like with these quarterback prospects i guess except for mac jones these quarterback prospects are just like fantastic. They'd go number one in a different draft. So cool. Yeah, that definitely changes things. Um, Paul, hi, how are you? Hello? I am good. Paul, uh, does an incredible job of staying out of internet fights. So he might not know what we're talking about when it comes to this stuff. I admire Paul. This is great. I know. Right. He lives in his intern Paul cocoon on the internet where he just tweets about the masters. So let me,

I'm going to direct this to intern Paul first and then you can take it wherever you want it. I was looking at a study from pro football focus, Paul, about how players transition into the NFL from being rookies. And it takes a while for certain positions and other positions do it quicker. Would that impact your thinking? And then Arif, I want you to respond to Paul. Would that impact your thinking on where the Vikings go at number 14? I just, I don't know if the Vikings are going to be looking at that specifically. I read your piece in terms of offensive line, really see a boost in

the third year. The first two years, they are relatively non-existent in terms of, you know, production for another team. So I would look at it, but this team is in win now mode. And the sentiment around the team is that they have not been able to find any sort of offensive line. And so I think if they don't pick an offensive lineman early, then they're going to get skewered by the public, by the fans. And in general, they need an offensive lineman. So I'm not against them taking a high caliber offensive lineman, but nothing in the study showed that we should be expecting much out of any tackle, any guard, any center. So does that make me want to take Rashad Bateman or some wide receiver more because we know that they can produce right away? Yes. And would that make sense

in the terms of Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer fighting for their job? So they need immediate production. Yes. But I would still expect them to take an offensive lineman relatively early. One, because they have a big need. And two, because if they don't, I think they're going to hear about it. We've heard about it for years and years, but it feels like we're hitting a boiling point where if some move doesn't get made, then things are going to have to change. I think virtually any position they draft in the first round, virtually any position is defensible. Like they take an edge defender. You're like, yeah, I get it. You know, they're a defense oriented team. They should probably worry about the offense a little bit more but i get it right uh they take a cornerback you're

like yeah i mean that guy might go to jail so cornerback that makes sense right uh wide receiver hey maybe they're developing a more modern offense plus adam thielen's getting up there in age safety you know same thing you don't know how long xavier woods is in the building quarterback that'd be amazing for content i would love that um you, these are all like everything but running back, I guess. And, and I don't know if there's any really nose tackle candidates in the first round. So you can't really get a nose tackle, but anything, anything better, like a running back and nose tackle, even linebacker makes sense. Given Anthony Barr's contract situation, you know, he's going to be a free agent. So they all make sense. They're all defensible to some degree or

another. Some are more defensible, obviously the offensive line position. You could draft a guard, even a center, and especially a tackle, and that would make a ton of sense. Obviously it takes a while for them to... I haven't actually seen the most recent, but I saw a Timo Risks piece from a couple of years ago about how long it takes for them to develop into good players. And I remember centers taking three years. I'm sure that hasn't changed too much with the new newest round of data that they have um but yeah i mean yeah it takes a while for offensive linemen to make an impact the first round i imagine it's a little bit quicker um although i might just be remembering because like quentin nelson and and this year's class of last year's class of tackles

had a fairly instant impact um but yeah i mean they spent their entire free agency load essentially on on defense right they they i guess they traded for a guard kind of um but everything everything else was just it was focused on the defense i expect it to be offense um but certainly it would fit the kind of the meme team effort if they decided to go defense grab a cornerback super hilarious i think if they grabbed a cornerback um and you know it you know that that all makes sense so um this is kind of like one of the few drafts where going in i just don't have a crazy hot take about what they should i mean they should grab a quarterback if they can but like i mean that's almost always true anyway. Um, but I don't have like a crazy strong opinion about what they

should do. Well, I feel the same way. And I wrote a little side column for bring me the news about how best player available actually is what you should do. And if that's a quarterback, then you should do it. And if it's a cornerback, you alluded to the uncertainty with Jeff Gladney, and I still would have said you should do it. even if Jeff Gladney was around because he didn't have a great year last year. Cameron Dantzler didn't stay healthy last year. Patrick Peterson is not a long-term solution. And Mackenzie Alexander might not be either. And you remember the value.

They're all in one-year contracts. And Mike Hughes, they didn't pick up his options. That's three cornerbacks out the door next year. Right. And you remember the value of xavier rhodes when he was at his best so if you take jc horn and he becomes that guy well i don't know that cameron dancel or jeff gladney's ceiling was that anyway and that's before gladney's issues of which we don't know if and when he will play for the minnesota vik Now, the kind of the thing that does come to mind, though, is with the pressure on Zimmer and Spielman, how do they view their needs? Like,

I think that you and I look at it and say, wow, I mean, 14 with five quarterbacks in the top 10, just take a guy and you're going to get somebody who's talented, but get inside their head for a minute. And I think that's what Paul was trying to do is say, look, I mean, you might have to just get an offensive lineman because you really desperately need an offensive lineman, even if that isn't the best player available. I think for them, it's, um, I think they kind of don't care about the reaction. And I think the drafts of the past couple of years have demonstrated that they just don't really care about reaction on draft day. And I think to some extent that the past couple of years have demonstrated that they just don't really care about reaction on draft day.

And I think to some extent that's right, because if they win, no one cares. Right. I mean, Zimmer kind of alluded to it. The game after Hughes had that pick six, he's like, yeah, you're all laughing now. And honestly, I mean, that was a pretty great draft because they grabbed Brown and Neal in the second round. So you can't really be that mad. But like if they win there, they'll be fine. So they're still going to be pressured to find a way to win now. Maybe that does mean an offensive lineman. Right. Because of just the state of the offensive line. But I just remember from the Zimmer presser, like he looked at the state of the defensive depth chart and like fell into despair.

And he did not think this about like the offensive line. Right. Like or he didn't bring that up. Right. And so I feel like they maybe they don't want to like make do like he believes in the trenches. Right. But I just think that they think whatever is the best path to winning is the one they want to take. And that's the best path for their job security. And maybe that means grabbing a defensive tackle, even though they just have two, essentially because Michael Pierce's contract rolled over, they essentially have two free agent signings at defensive tackle. They might grab a third one.

They might do what the New York Giants have done and just make sure they always over-invest in the defensive line. I don't know. Not like the New York Giants are like a model winning organization, but that seems to be the way that Zimmer sometimes thinks. So whatever they think is going to help them win this year, I think that, that seems to be, you know, the way that Zimmer sometimes thinks. So whatever they think is going to help them win this year, I think that's what they're going to do.

And, and maybe that means an offensive lineman. You know, I w I would, I would hope so because after running through like all of these simulations so many times even if you trade back and grab a guy in this, there's not that many second round off. There's a lot of third rounders and it really depends on what the wisconsin whitewater kid quinn minors where he goes you know that's up in the air there's just not a ton of second rounders that fit what the vikings do they're like wide zone offensive linemen um and so i i would imagine taking a look at that depth and and one thing speelman is really good at is getting a good lay of the land for what the draft

is going to end up looking like and and where player runs happen and stuff like that. And I imagine looking at that, that will motivate them to pick an offensive lineman in the first round, whether that's to trade back in the first round or stay at 14 or whatever. Arif, a couple of days ago, Matt and I were having a conversation about the third wide receiver and the value of taking one in the first round specifically for the Vikings. I love it. And just talking about how much 12 and 21 that the Vikings play and the amount of 11 that they play compared to the rest of the league. And if the value of taking a first round wide receiver for the Vikings would be as high as say another team who's in need of a third wide receiver who uses three wide receivers

in the game much more than the Vikings do. I'm interested to hear your thoughts in, do we believe that that pick, because we know wide receivers drafting them is a good idea. Their value continues to kind of go up and up as we do the research, but for a team like the Vikings, is that value as high when they're just haven't been committed to using them as much as the rest of the league has been. I think it's not static. The, the personnel that they'll be in, um, they, they lost Kyle Rudolph. And I think if they drafted a receiver in the first round,

I'm going to want them on the field. I think they would move to 11 more often. In fact, last year we saw more 11 from the Vikings at the beginning of the season and it wasn't working out. And Gary Kubiak was like, you know what? Last year's offense was fine. I'm just going to do that. And they did that. And the offense was fine this year. And so I think that if they grabbed a receiver, they would just be in 11 more often. The same thing happened to Dallas. They grab a first round wide receiver. They've got three really great wide receivers. They go into 11 a lot more often. I think, you know, the Vikings were first in the

league in 12 personnel last year and the year before that. But despite being first both years, they were in 12 personnel dramatically less last year than they were the year before. That's how bad it was two years ago. And their closest competitors, and close is like a relative term. They were actually not very close in terms of 12 personnel at all, was the Eagles. And that's just because they had two really good tight ends and a bunch of garbage receivers. And as they added receivers, not necessarily great receivers, but as they added receivers and the quality of their tight end unit, just because of injury and drop off or whatever, you know, got worse. They got into 11 personnel more often. So I think even teams that, that feel committed to a particular identity in terms of, you know, what they want to look like, what they've historically looked like.

I think once you add like undeniable talent, they'll find a way to put them on the field. So the Vikings grab receiver, maybe they'll use 11 personnel less often than another team would. And in that sense, you know, the value would be less than for another team, but I still think the value would be pretty high. And if add up rudolph and bb and bc johnson together you're over 50 catches there for what those guys add up to and jesus that's right right i know that's what i'm saying is that you know you add those guys up and that's like a lot of targets and a lot of catches that you would replace with somebody who's going to be better at the football and i I also think that just this ties back

into the best player available is, A, you just need to get someone who can help your football team because you have enough openings. And the other B being that down the road, you're never sure when things are going to come up. I mean, the Vikings in recent years, and this is where I want to go with this conversation,

in recent years have drafted guys that they needed right away to fill the openings that were there. And if you have a roster that's really strong, going into 2018, going into 2019, you can definitely do things like that. But when you have a roster that isn't as strong, you just need talent, and then you need to figure out how to use that talent. So if it's a pass rusher and we go, Oh, does he weigh enough for Zimmer? And like, well, I don't know, maybe just take him so he can get to the quarterback because you need anyone who can do that. Steven Weatherly probably isn't that guy as a full-time starter. Right? So, but I wanted to ask your opinion or reef on guys that would be taking that jump that the Timo risky article from PFF talked about where center, for example, the first two years of a center were pretty low first and second year and Garrett Bradbury's.

Well, they have been by PFF metrics, right? So let's talk about these guys that should be taking jumps. We'll leave Jeff Gladney out of the conversation, but corners take a big jump in the second year. I don't think Justin Jefferson, it's really possible to take a huge jump from, I think he'll regress statistically, even if he gets better, like in terms of technique and film and stuff like that. Just because,

I mean, it's just an insane season to have to replicate. Right. And the defenses are going to go into the off season, looking specifically at how to slow down something that he does. They probably won't, but I mean, right. Statistically it's, it would be hard to slow down something that he does. They probably won't. But I mean, right.

Statistically, it would be hard to be better than like top five in PFF grade. But the other guys all need to take a step forward. So let's start with Garrett Bradbury specifically. Like, do we think that the situation has just been not good for him? Or is the skill not there to take that step that many centers do in year three? It's so tough for me to say the skill's not there because there are some plays or even just some full games, honestly, like when he played against Delvin Donaldson, actually, he's just been good. Like he's showed great technique. He's shown really fantastic athleticism. He's shown, you know,

recovery capability, good pass protection, great run blocking. And he's flashed in basically every area of the game that you want a center to be good in, in ways that just feel like, you know, if he, if he just maintains consistency, you know, then he'll be a really good center. Obviously he's not a really good center, but it's all, it's all been there. You know, I think think when I was watching Pat Offline play guard, I never got that feeling. Obviously, his rookie year at center, I thought there was some stuff there that he could kind of build on in a big way. And I know you did, too.

You were a big fan of what he was able to put together his rookie year. But after he came back from injury, I didn't think there were like these things that you can build on for him. Whereas for, you know, Garrett Bradbury, I just think that there are plays or full games or even just series where he feels like he's just really tuned in and turned on and a really good center for that period of time. And obviously the name of the game for any offensive lineman is consistency, but there's a big difference between an inconsistent offensive lineman. Who's just not that good and gets away with like their physical capabilities. Say like a TJ Clemmings, right? You know, he's had some good plays.

It takes a while to find him, but he's had some good plays. And it's mostly because he's just overwhelmingly, he's a physical force. But for the most part, you know, he can't replicate that. Whereas if you find somebody who's consistently good or good because they put together some interesting technique that works on a consistent basis, but they just don't do it from play to play, you can build on that and make sure that they work on their muscle memory and all that and pull it all together. So I think there's something there for Bradbury to be able to take that step.

And this is the perfect offense for him. He's best when he's on the move. I love watching him on screens. I think there's something there to build on. That's not to say he will take a leap, but I think that the opportunity that I think for a lot of players that are graded pretty lowly their first two years, I think that of that subset, Garrett Bradbury has a higher potential

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Plus, keep your eyes and ears out for our giveaways going on on this show as well on social media. Follow them at SodaStickCo on Twitter and at SodaStick.com for your original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. and if we're going off of um you know this general premise that a year or two into their career we're seeing a big step maybe offensive lineman year three are there guys that they've taken in the last year two or three that you see as this year okay maybe someone can take a jump because one thing when i'm just scanning through the list of drafted players I think we go off of Spielman's couple big hit drafts where he's drafted a lot of really good players that sustained runs especially in like that 2017 year but you know going through last year's draft and the year before especially

in the mid to later rounds there aren't the cupboards are kind of bare so if we're not looking at Garrett Bradbury if we're working off the, okay, they can, someone's going to improve a year or two into their career. Is there someone you see on this roster that could step in and fill a need that hasn't yet? There's two. I think that the one that the Vikings seem a little bit more excited about, which is just intriguing to me, Rashad Hill, the last time he was a starter, not that great. But, you know, I think that we kind of forgot that when he started for the Vikings, he was relatively young into not that great. But, you know, I think that we kind of forgot that when he started for the Vikings, he was relatively young into his career. He feels like he's like this longtime veteran backup. But I mean, he hasn't actually played in the NFL for an extraordinary amount

of time. Obviously, he's a free agency. So he's on, you know, I guess I think it's just a second contract. But, you know, he's in a position to be able to prove that he's actually developed and learned. That's kind of interesting. It's not that I have an extraordinary amount of hope for him, but he is, I think, a pretty valuable player regardless. I think that even where he stands from where he was last year, even the year before, he's a really valuable swing tackle and he could take that next step. But I think the most tantalizing option is Ole Udo, who Zimmer mentioned, I think even before Ezra Cleveland, when they were talking about the left tackle position.

So Udo, I think, is in that sweet spot. I think it's like, what, year three for him maybe? Or something along those lines, close to it. And Udo said something really recently where he was just like, yeah, that game I had against Chicago where I played well, I looked at that. Actually, I didn't play well at all. I played like garbage.

I thought it was embarrassing. But it was interesting because Matthew and I both looked at that game. We're like, wow, we don't really had it. That's good. And if he feels like his technique has improved that much, that he feels like he's an entirely different player, yeah, we're relying on self-reporting and stuff like that. That's only so reliable.

But I think that there's potentially, you can work off of that and maybe that player can take the next step. Again, I don't think either of these things are the most likely thing on the planet but if we're looking for players that are in a position to take that next step i think those two are options and then obviously ezra cleveland is an option i think pff overrated his level of play last year i don't think he was very good i think part of that's just because he was a guard um and i don't think he should be playing guard doesn't

look like you'll get an extraordinary amount of opportunities at tackle. But if they hold this like, you know, huge open competition for the tackle spot and he, you know, takes it by storm, I wouldn't be insanely shocked either. The Rashad Hill thing is real in their eyes. And, you know, if you look at just a picture of Rashad Hill or watch some tape from him playing in 2017 to look at him last year, just the body shape is different. Like he looks much more lean, much quicker, much stronger than he was basically when he got to Minnesota in 2016.

He wasn't some journeyman lineman. I mean, he was a rookie then who had been on another team's practice squad that they picked up basically because he has insanely long arms insanely giant hands and just this like wide body that is hard to get around and considering it was his second year in 2017 where overall he played more than 700 snaps and did not tank the offense i mean think about that that's a good point yeah he was not an insane liability. Right. And he went up against Cameron Jordan in the Minneapolis miracle game and actually played. Okay. Like didn't get the Clemmings.

I was, I was watching that game from a 2015 with the Broncos and Vikings the other day and TJ Clemmings at right. I like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like you guys, I think that's the game where Clemmings sacked Bridgewater, right? Yes. Yeah. Not great. I feel so bad because like talking to Clemmings, he's like such a great guy to talk to. I never, but like, God, was he not good at football?

No, he was not. And also I remember in the locker room, because he didn't want to talk to us, he was one that would hide behind the doors and peek over to see if we were gone yet to come out the shower. He really he really just didn't have the mental makeup for it. I think not that it wasn't a physical issue at all because he was freakish physically. But that aside, I think that what they've seen from Rashad Hill behind the scenes and the fact that they were ready to start him for last year tells you about his development. That certainly doesn't say that he's about to be an all-star.

The only Udo thing is kind of become like a joke to me because yes, he played well in that week 17 game. Armand Watts looked like Aaron Donald that day too. And yeah, you know, like our guy, Alexander Holland, Alexander Holland was just going to bring him up. Wow. What a great game he had. It was a preseason game. Okay. You know, the fact, the fact that they didn't have Ole Udo active most of the time kind of says to me, like, I think he's on the outside of that, but the Ezra Cleveland, yeah, the Ezra Cleveland element of it kind of muddies the entire water

on the offensive line. But I wanted to get to Irv Smith Jr. and his step for next year because last year... Yeah, he should be on the chart too, right? Because tight end is a year three deal? Yes, yeah. I mean, tight end is absolutely one of the hardest positions, I think, to come into the league right away and succeed. And so Irv Smith has gotten to come along slowly as a number two tight end, and then he gets a little more opportunity. But there have been other players, Arif, where we've gone like, oh, well, that guy's gone. Who cares? Next guy up.

It'll be fine. And it has not been fine. So will it be fine with Irv Smith Jr.? I mean, the thing with Irv Smith is that he hasn't done anything to make you not believe in him. And I think that just a lot of people have taken that and and run with it and thought, you know, he's just going to break out. But, you know, the converse of that is he hasn't done anything like we don't have any evidence that he's any good. Well, we have some evidence, right, that the Vikings were just kind of willing to let Kyle Rudolph go and they were like fine with it.

And that's like, you know, an indication that based off of what they saw that Irv Smith is ready to take on, you know, a bigger role. And that's not nothing, right. That's pretty meaningful, right. Like the fact that the Vikings refused to play Drew Samia until they were physically forced to, you know, that was a good decision on their part. So, you know, teams have a pretty decent amount of knowledge about the players in the roster. And so that's evidence, but, you know, in terms of on the field, so we haven't seen anything from him. That's an indication that he's really going to break out. Um, we can trust that in the third, with the third year thing for tight ends, that there's, um, you know, a bigger chance for him to break out. And certainly he's got, you know, physical skillset that that's, you know, that's built for that. Um, so long as they kind of use them like, you know, Jordan

Reed in Washington or Vernon Davis in San Francisco or something like that. Um, you know, Jordan Reed in Washington or Vernon Davis in San Francisco or something like that. You know, he has that capability. But, you know, I just feel like we've come back around. And by we, I just mean kind of just people who watch the Vikings have come back around to just kind of assuming that he'll be good. Right. And you bring up a really good point that like, you know, maybe that's not like always the case um and so yeah i i think there's like some level of concern there what we saw from tyler conklin in the last five games was just really phenomenal um you know he's not gonna be a 80 yard a game or anything like that tight end but um you know there's a floor, I think, for tight end performance, probably that you'll hit. And honestly, not having elite tight end production is fairly manageable in the NFL.

You can do just fine. So it's not like an insane amount of concern for me. And he's immediately, he's a good blocker, right? So some of that other stuff, I mean, he, he game one, he was a better blocker than any other tight end on the roster and a couple of alignment so you know he'll he'll always have value to the team just whether or not you can replace his receiving production i don't know another reason to draft a receiver yes i was thinking the same thing similarly on the defensive side it feels like after a year and after a strong second half uh we've kind of just said okay OK, Cameron Dantzler's in there. Just plug him, plug him in the in the starting quarterback lineup.

Like we're going to fill these other holes. We're going to go get Patrick Peterson. Mike Hughes is going to be gone. We got to find a slot guy. But Cam Dantzler's there. And it makes sense, but it also is a little bit concerning just because looking at, just looking at historical trends, like the first year of a cornerback is not exactly the year you judge a cornerback and how they're doing both good and bad. And Dantzler showed, you know, he missed five games last season because of some injuries. His, his frame is a little smaller than maybe you'd like. So is that a spot where we're just saying, okay,

plug camera dance learn and let's, and let's move on. I i mean i think maybe the spotlight's a little bit more on him now that gladney is in the situation he's in but are we just in a spot where we're trusting danzler as that number one or number two corner and just letting him ride calling his frame a little bit that was pretty generous i think on your part um his nickname is the needle right his frame is a concern. Well, Paul's not one to talk about someone else's frame. So I think that that's going to be a perpetual concern, by the way. I don't think he's a guy that you can bring into an NFL weight room and be

like, yeah, we'll just add like 30 pounds. You'll be fine. I mean like Ole Miss tried it and you know, they've got a pretty decent weight room. Right. And you know, it produced like DK Metcalf. Like it's not like and it just it didn't it didn't work. Right. Like he showed up to campus like one hundred sixty five pounds soaking wet. And they're like, man, we got to feed him and put him into a workout room. And he gained like over four years, like 20 pounds like i don't think it's going to happen um so that's going to be a perpetual concern and that's going to cause some problems just in terms of his um potential to avoid injury it doesn't seem like it affects his like ability to like play when he is healthy so like that's kind of cool but um you know for the most part that's

that's going to continue to be a concern and you have to worry about kind of his game-to-game availability and then also his like year-long availability like you don't know if you can build around this guy for the future right just because at some point you're just going to maybe accumulate too many injuries um so that that's going to be something that you have to think about going forward uh and there's also something that like the reason that everyone's excited about Cameron Dancer is not because of what he did for the entirety of his rookie year it's what he did in like the final eight games and and that is a more important sample than the first eight games but it's not like those first eight games didn't happen and I remember so many players that have done well in the final couple of games of a season

and we're like wow he's finally figured it out he's put it together and then nothing right like Sam Darnold did it Teddy Bridgewater did in 2014 and his 2015 was pretty average. Gino Smith has done it three years in a row where like his final eight or final four games were like great. And you're like, ah, he's got to, he's got to figure it out. And, um, I remember in quarterbacks more than anyone else, cause people talk about quarterbacks more, but this has happened to like every position where, where somebody has, and I know I just referenced tyler conklin but he's not expected to start right so i can i feel like i'm comfortable getting away with it um but like we have to be careful just saying because they did well in the final whatever games of the season to pretend like

the first couple of games never happened um so there's that second concern where like the representative sample that we have to build on this hype. And he played really well. I don't want to like downplay. He played really well. But I think that we should remain concerned, right? Cameron Dancer could potentially put together a season that's pretty disappointing based off of the level of expectation that we've got. Patrick Peterson is an open question, I think, despite his resume. Even Mackenzie Alexander actually had a pretty decent year in Cincinnati. And and finished out with the Vikings fairly decently in his final two years. Even he I mean, like he might provide a floor to work off of, but he's not going to like win you games from the slot or anything.

So I think we're acting or a lot of people are acting as if the secondary issue maybe is not resolved, but is a lot more stable. But really, there are almost as many questions about the secondary this year as there were last year. I mean, last year you had rookies, so there's a lot more uncertainty, but there's still a lot of questions. Patrick Peterson hasn't played well in two years. I feel like a scheme change will be better for him, but I don't know. I mean, Xavier Woods and Mike Zimmer both said Xavier Woods didn't play well last year. Oh yeah. They both said it. And, and I think they're both correct in their diagnosis that they asked him to play in the box too often or whatever, but like still he's coming off of a bad season. And that's part of the sample that you use to evaluate players. Exactly. And so this all

sort of ties back to, again, take your best player and don't worry about this guy or that guy because that guy might disappoint you. And that's why I feel a little goofy saying, guys, if it's a corner, that's actually OK. And, you know, people are going to have the pitchforks and want to come after Zimmer's head. But that actually might be a good decision because you would not shock me if they took certain or horn at all. Right. You could get the best corner in the draft, though. draft though so like that's not terrible for you when there's questions and with Dantzler the whole idea of well he just has to add weight um but he's also not fast so are you going to add weight to a guy who I mean I know that his agent put out a video saying he ran a 4.38 or something, but that didn't really happen. So he ran the 4.6 in the combine.

And I think last year we didn't see him getting roasted like that. But if you lose 1% of speed, if you're Cameron Dantzler, you will get roasted. I think he's just at the level he needs to be in order to keep up with people. So this is interesting. So the PFF live coverage of the draft mentioned, or I think it was live coverage of the Combine. I don't know, something. It was one of their live shows.

I think it was Mike Renner who mentioned that actually Dantzler put on a bunch of weight right before the Combine, and that's why he ran so slow. And so he didn't have that. And remember, he didn't weigh in at that fake pro day that never happened, right? Like he could have been running at 165. And remember he didn't weigh in at that fake pro day that never happened. Right. Like he could have been running at one 65 and it's like, well,

I'm glad you ran a fourth grade at one 65 or whatever you ran, um, whatever number that turns out to be. Um, but that's not going to represent, you know, the conditions that, that, that people want you to, to run it. Uh, and, um, you know, that, that weight was, you know, apparently, you know, he just probably just bulked up without thinking about kind of how to bulk up because you need to do it really quickly. Because if he showed up to the combine weighing 160, it just would have been curtains, right? Like he would not have been drafted in the third round, he would weight is like our sample of one. Him adding weight is not turned into a guy that has the ability to kind of run with NFL receivers. And yeah, he did pretty well against Jamar Chase in college. That's fine. But if you're an NFL team and you see Patrick Peterson at like 40 on one side and Cameron Dantzler who ran a four, six on the other side,

a newly bulked up Cameron Dancer and the backend is being patrolled by like 31 year old Harrison Smith, man. I'm just, I'm grabbing whatever insane speedster is like on the free agent market, like Marvin Hall. I'm just grabbing Marvin Hall and just putting that on the field. Right. I'm still gonna have my best receivers out there, but I'm just going to get a guy that runs a four four three and just see what happens right uh like you you can't have a secondary where no one is fast and so uh that that's that's a pretty big concern if if the only

guy that at any point even in a fake pro day situation um if the only guy that you have that might be able to run fast um can't bulk up like i it's it's it's tough i think that there's a lot of concerns here like i mean a lot of teams have figured out that fast receivers are good i feel like this is not gonna be an uncommon problem for the vikings unmute yourself yourself, Paul. Oh, sorry. I wasn't sure how the questions were going back and forth. I guess just listening to this conversation, then we're going, okay, well, we're not sure about Cameron Dantzler. We're not really sure about any of the other corners.

Safety, we're not really sure about. Tight end, we feel good about Irv Smith, but we don't know. Same, we hope Bradbury has a bounce back here, but we don't know. So now I'm running through my head. It sounds like a team that should draft a quarterback.'t know. Same. We hope Bradbury has a bounce back here, but we don't know. So now I'm running through my head. How many sounds like a team that should draft a quarterback? Why are you so negative, Paul? I'm just wondering, like going through it now, like how many positions do you feel solid about? And does this running back the most important? I was going to say there's a couple wide receivers. There's a running back. There's a quarterback. But after this, I's like, I mean, even Daniil Hunter, you don't know. Yeah, right. Even Ed Rusher, just like, I don't know.

And linebacker, like Eric Hendricks, good, fine. Anthony Barr, probably pretty good. I'm a huge Anthony Barr defender, right? But he's also not going to be in the building for that much longer. Like, you don't rework a contract so that a guy hits free agency because you're definitely going to keep them right so um even even a linebacker you've got uncertainty and that's a position the vikings have just been good at for the past three years yeah i don't know man take what i probably don't take a linebacker on the first round i mean i guess it makes sense but

like i that positional value is just not there for me i have some fun over unders that i thought of for delvin cook uh that i want to that i want to give you but let me ask you this question first so don't let me forget that because both of them i think are really good um so they've got a little bit of money left and as we've gone through this where there's uncertainty and yes i think that all of this points to hey if one of those five quarterbacks are there you should really just do that because you need a lot of things to click in order for this year to be great and so you should be thinking about the future more than you're thinking about hey let's just fill this defensive end and then we'll be all set like they have tried

to do in the past um so i i guess i wonder like is there a point to trying to get, I don't know, Jadavion Clowney, or is it just try to stack up for the questions that we have? If Jeff Gladney is not going to play, then maybe you add another very cheap corner. You add there's always the Adrian Claiborne out there or Jabal Sheard or something. So there's always a pass rusher who goes from team to team to team we don't love them as much as journeyman quarterbacks but we love them uh and the Vikings never get those guys because they've been all set with Daniel Hunter and Everson Griffin but they're not set now so you've got seven million to work with more is coming off

the books but that's kind of earmarked for the draft so what what do you think will happen with this remaining money in the cap space then more that's coming off the books that's like the kyle rudolph money right correct yeah it's another it's only like seven or eight million but yeah and that so that would exclusively be for the draft yeah and brian o'neill and contract extension right um yeah i mean if so the thing is if the vikings really want to compete this year and it very much sounds like they do, which, you know, it's a choice. Then, yeah, they don't they don't want to turn that money into rollover money. They want to be able to use it right now and save their jobs.

So, yeah, I think that probably your best investment is in a pass rusher. I think that the quality of like the the street free agents at pass rusher are just better than they are at like cornerback or anything else. And I think kind of approaching this so that you don't feel like you're in a spot where you have to rely on a first round rookie to just solve your problem for you at whatever position is probably the best approach. Again, if you really feel like you've got a playoff push in you and the way that the negative intern Paul pointed out, we don't we have no idea. Right. If they've got the capability to really push for the playoffs and if they do, like, what's the point? Are they going to win the Super Bowl? I. I mean, that'd be fun. I don't think that's going to happen. Good for content. Yeah. Great content. Yeah. But yeah, I just it doesn't feel

that likely um so yeah in in the world where the vikings have convinced themselves that they're playoff contenders and it's it's an odd numbered year so they are um then uh then yeah i think they absolutely should should find some starting quality veterans which are strangely still available even on the offensive line. Like Eric Fisher is still out there, right? Mitchell Schwartz is like posting a bunch of food pics, like he's about to retire, but I think you could convince him. Like, I think you could get Mitchell Schwartz.

I know that that means you've got two right tackles, but who cares? You'll figure it out. They're both good players. You'll figure it out. So like, yeah, there's offensive linemen. There's pass rushers. I think those are your best values among the street free agents. You could probably get a corner just because the Jeff Gladney situation is

really concerning from every perspective, but from the perspective of the organization and availability perspective. And in, in you don't really want to feel like you'll be forced to take that first rounder thinking that that's going to be the guy that's going to be the centerpiece of your playoff push. Because last year we said like, wow, the Vikings really have to nail this draft if they want to be competitive. And honestly, they kind of did. They kind of nailed the draft and they weren't competitive.

So are we in a situation where they have to nail the draft? Do they have to pull together another 2015 draft another 2020 draft like that's asking a lot like after the saints is 2017 draft they didn't put together another amazing insane draft after the 2015 draft the vikings had the 2016 draft i mean great so like it's it's tough to to say like, you know, the Vikings, if they pull three high-quality starters out of this draft, they'll be set. Like, yeah, I guess. Pretty big if. If they want to compete, I think that they should spend the $7 million somewhere.

And I think the trenches are your best value. Hey, everyone. Anybody who listens to the show knows that Sam and I may not be scratch golfers, but we love to have a great time playing golf. And that's why we have partnered with Birdie Golf in Woodbury. Birdie Golf is hands down the best indoor golf experience you will ever have. There are eight of the world's best golf simulators where you can sharpen your swing and luckily for us, never lose a ball. But it's not just for hardcore golfers. Birdie Golf is for everyone.

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And there seems to be a lot of value to be had in that second round. Say those top two tackles are off the board, those quarterbacks are off the board. There's like three or four edge rushers that people are talking about in the Vikings name. You could slide back, get one of those guys. There's the wide receivers that I like. There's kind of that second tier of tackle, like Christian Derrissaw

and the USC kid that I can't remember his name off the top of my head. Elijah Barry Tucker. There we go. It's a long name. Yeah. So to me, one of the things as I just drafts him all the time is looking for those second round picks that we can try to get back to where they can find another higher tier talent. And so do you feel like that would be a good move or do they, does it need to be more of a premium guy that you're going to grab in those first 15 picks? Someone who could be there that is really going to elevate it over maybe someone you get at 23 who is good, but he's not one of those elite, elite talents that maybe is available to them at 14. I think the guy would have to be truly elite for me to think that you should not trade back.

I think that acquiring more talent, especially given the Vikings roster, but just generally, like as a rule, trading back is just generally better than staying put or trading up. And for the Vikings, especially, I just like if Kyle Pitts falls, screw it, take him, right? Well, like whatever. If you could have the hilarious situation where Mac Jones is behind Kirk Cousins after like we've just spent an offseason comparing him to Kirk Cousins to justify Kyle Shanahan picking him. Like that would be amazing. Right. But also he's a first round quality. He's a good quarterback. Right. So just pick him. Penny Sewell. Yeah, actually, I think he's just so round quality he's a good quarterback right so just pick him um penne sewell yeah actually i think he's just so good that fine um but even if it's rashaan slater i'd be pretty comfortable trading back um i i think that you'd have to have just a really high quality talent

and after jamar chase and i think there is actually a pretty big distance between chase and the alabama receivers uh and also, despite I forget who tweeted it today, Rashad Bateman, but I, yeah, if it's, if it's chase pits, Sewell, yeah. Take them. If it's a quarterback, take them. I can't think of anybody else that I'd want there that, that I would rather not have a second round pick for. And I think probably the most optimal solution is to trade back, grab a late second, because I mean, all your trade back partners only really have late seconds unless it's like miami um and uh and then with that second round pick probably this is the only

situation where i'd want to trade up but i would trade back that late second into the mid or the early second because i think there is probably a talent cliff there um where where you just don't get offensive linemen that are really fit for the wide zone and stuff like that. But you might be able to get the Notre Dame guy, the COVID guy, Liam Eikenberg, the COVID guy. Wow. He just, he missed the medical recheck because he had a medical issue. So, I mean every, every college player that played this year probably got COVID

anyway. So, yeah, right. He got it pretty late in the process, I guess. But yeah, like a Liam Eikenberg or Samuel Cosme or whatever, you might be able to get in the top of the second, and I think that that would be pretty ideal. So I think the ideal scenario is you trade back in the first, maybe you get like a Jason Owa, who would not be like a rookie starter. He's got a lot to work on, but, or, or a quitty pay or, or whoever. Right.

And I think Jalen Phillips is like the best defensive player in the draft. Right. Just, I mean, based on the on film stuff. Right. But like you get whoever I think an edge rusher makes the most sense maybe. And then if you find a way to get back into the middle of the second round of the top of the second round, that's when you probably grab that offensive lineman because i think the difference between like and i think roshan slater is probably the best guy but i think the difference between him and derisaw and derisaw and the rest of that group is just small enough that it's probably just worth waiting um so that i think is the ideal scenario and and you lose maybe a third round pick doing that but you've got a bevy of thirds

and fourths that you can use to to fill out receiver cornerback safety maybe grab a linebacker or tight end I don't know what I like about this draft is this is the first time since I've covered them that I've really had no idea what they were going to do my cues surprised me a little but then they took Brian O'Neill right after that because we were all talking about offensive line um and even then mike zimmer drafting a corner was not super shocking this year it is just so wide open in so many ways the trade scenarios are robust uh so there's i mean there's so many different options that it makes it lots of fun to draft sim a thousand times uh all right okay let me give you the uh delvin cook over unders i feel like we really missed this opportunity to talk about this more with 17 games a reef that like delvin delvin cook over unders. I feel like we really missed this opportunity to talk about this more

with 17 games, a reef that like Delvin, Delvin cook. Okay. Delvin cook is going to set every record if he stays healthy in terms of touching the football. So a total touches 450 is my over under yet total touches. So that would be, you know, like a hundred. Well, let's see. A hundred catches, 75 catches, close to 400 carries somewhere in that range. Which seems not totally insane. Has he had a 300 carry season? Last year he was on pace to go well over 400. He's always on pace.

Right. Yeah. Well, right. The injury. And then the, he also had a death in the family where he missed the last game. So like projecting him to play 17 games is excessive right there but if he does here's the other one that i think is interesting too that one is a little snarky saying 450 touches but here's the here's the important one though 4.5 yards per carry for delvin cook after what he went through last year with his workload. Both of you answer this.

Do we think he's going to be over or under that? I'm going to go with over. I think to the extent that passing influence is running, I think teams will just be really focused on like Justin Jefferson or whatever. And the Vikings will still want to run them into advantageous boxes i mean the way that they talked about how they were designing the defensive philosophy made me think that they have some understanding of a way to design an offense to at least when they do run run it advantageously so um despite cook coming off of a workload that generally screams regression

i i'll go over i i'd also go over, I think any yearly total, I'd probably go under based on how much he ran the ball last year and just his propensity to miss games. And I was looking at his stats, at least for pro football reference, he had 312 rushes last year, 44 exceptions. Okay. That's three 56 in those 14 games. So so did he have the most carries in the nfl last year i i don't have that derrick henry my i was about to say derrick henry and then him right i think that's it yep and missed two games 356 in 14 games so we'd have to average like whatever 33 combined they had a they had a negative game script what the hell were they

doing okay we've already had this yeah jesus but. So he's never averaged under four and a half yards per, per game or per rush in, in any season that he's been in the NFL. So I wouldn't bet any totals just because I feel like he might get injured. But in terms of when he's on the field, I think he's shown through injuries or not. He's going to be, um, a pretty darn good running back. So I'd go over four and a half. I just looked at guys who had his workload from last year and they usually regressed in yards per carry the year after.

And so I'm not saying that he's going to be garbage. It's just that in the second half of seasons, he has each year over the last two years regressed after we went oh my god he's the mbc he's having an mvpc for a running back incredible and then the set yeah i remember both both seasons the first half of the season he was the best running back in the nfl better than christian mccaffrey better than derrick henry second half was like oh i remember these other two running backs oh they're better right right and uh there's no mike boone to not play this year so does it change if he goes to number four, if he becomes number four?

Did you see him tweet that out? Oh yeah. That he wants to be number four. Yeah. No, if he, if he switches to number four, I think he's getting 2000 yards. I like it. I like it. I want to see.

I just, as an aside, this number rule is amazing. I love it. It's great. I don't want receivers wearing a ton of numbers in the twenties. That's my only thing. I think 21 is great. I think 27 is pretty good. 29 is good. But I mean, these are like running back numbers to me typically. But a receiver wearing number one, that's my dude. That's my favorite receiver in the NFL. Whoever's wearing number one. I might have eight receivers that are my favorite in the NFL, but that's great. If Percy Harvin was able to wear number one in the NFL,

he'd be playing today. It would have changed the course of Vikings history. Yeah, it'd be great, yeah. He would have had 2,000 rushing yards in a season. I don't care. Yes, I want Rondale Moore to wear 21 because like Eric Metcalf and Deion Sanders. Oh God, yeah, Rondale Moore wearing 21.

That's elite. Super cool. So Arif Hassan doing great work at the athletic leading up to the NFL draft and uh you know covering free agency as well Paul um you know I'm doing stuff some kind of no good Paul no honestly you've you've done a great job filling in for Sam except for the time where you were exhausted from having your second shot of the vaccination, which we'll give you a free pass on that. So you're good. Thanks a lot of reef. And this was a really fun Friday round table. We'll do it again sometime very soon, man. Awesome. Great. Looking forward to it.