Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Friday roundtable: Will the Vikings actually draft an offensive lineman?

Episode Date: April 2, 2021

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom are joined by Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated for the Friday Roundtable. They open up by talking about whether the Vikings actually feel like they are set along the offensive line and if they can go best player available in the draft. Then they discuss what's missing from Mike Zimmer's mindset on offense versus his approach to always pushing the defense forward. And then they talk hills to die on for the draft, including not taking a mid-round quarterback. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hey, celebrate. Symbol, using the promo code PURPLE, you will receive six months free of premium Purple Insider written content at purpleinsider.substack.com. So go to symbol.app, deposit $20 if you're a first-time user, six months free of our premium written content at Purple Insider. If you are not familiar yet with Symbol, it is a new sports marketplace where you can trade shares of professional teams like stocks. So as we are fully into draft season you're going to want to get in now with your team before their stock rises here's how it works you buy stock of teams and when your

teams win you earn cash payouts that are instantly deposited so check it out symbol.app follow them on twitter at symbol, and check out the Marketplace for Sports. Welcome to another Friday Roundtable here on Purple Insider presented by Scout Logistics and by Symbol, your stock market for sports. Matthew Collar, Sam Ekstrom here as always, and he covers the Minnesota Vikings for Sports Illustrated. Will Raggetts, what's up, Will? Not a whole lot. Just another Thursday in the offseason. Are you looking at all defensive free agents for the remaining places that the Vikings have to fill for that $7 million in cap space? Because that's the only positions that they're allowed to fill is on defense because Mike Zimmer thinks that Ole Udo, Rashad Hill, and Ezra Cleveland are going to be totally fine in filling the tackle.

So I think we can't even look at you and I were talking about Chris Reed as an offensive lineman, and he signs with the Indianapolis Colts. I think it's just futile to even bother checking into the guards that still exist. Yeah, it might be. They did make a trade for Mason Cole, so that, I don't know, that doesn't really count for much with a sixth-round compensatory pick, but they still need a defensive end, so we could see something like that. Will, what did you make of mike zimmer's press conference on wednesday it he seemed fairly confident that the the foursome of cleveland hill udo and uh did he say samia i can't remember if

he mentioned o'neill o'neill oh that's right o'neNeal as the four tackle candidates. Do you think that's good enough? I think they're fine at tackle, honestly. I mean, I've always thought that they should probably move Ezra Cleveland back to the position that they drafted him to play. And then if you've got Rashad Hill and Ole Udo as your backers, I think that's that's very for very solid tackles. But then the issue is, if you're moving Cleveland, you have no guards. And well, one thing Zimmer said yesterday was, I think we've put ourselves in a position through free agency to take the best player available in the draft. No, no, you haven't. I don't, I don't think they have. I think they've, as of right now,

unless they do something in the next month, which they certainly could, I think they've kind of boxed themselves into taking an offensive lineman just because you can't start Mason Cole and Dakota Dozier or whoever it is at guard. Like they need more there. Elijah Vera Tucker is the top guard guy out of USC. But is that good value if you suddenly have to reach for him at 14 or whatever? So I don't think they have set themselves up to take best player available. were other takeaways from Zimmer's press conference that we'll get into but I do not think they are I'm not as confident in the offensive line as he might be yeah the Vikings do

two things every offseason they claim that they're going best player available when we know they won't and they also try to play some games with the offensive line and they try to plant the seed that Riley Reif might be a guard so we might be going tackle we might be going guard and they try to create sort of this doubt so they can I don't know manipulate the draft board or or whatever it is that they think they're accomplishing but they're doing it again they they've raised the question what is Ezra Cleveland is he a tackle is he guard? They're trying to make us think they're set at tackle. I don't buy it at all. I think it's offensive line easily coming in the first three rounds,

maybe in the first round. Yeah, I think so too. I think they've kind of just put themselves in a position where you have to do that. You can't go into the season with your current options. Luckily for them, there is a situation where it could work out well have to do that you can't go into the season with your current options and they're the luck luckily for them it there is a situation where it could work out well because there are some some names in the first round that I think could be good value uh at 14 if Rashawn Slater's there slightly

biased as a northwestern alum but I think he's phenomenal and I'm not the only one who thinks that most of the NFL people think that too if he he's there at 14, I think you got to sprint to the podium with that one, but Christian Derrissaw would be an interesting one out of Virginia tech. And then that would give you the flexibility to maybe keep Cleveland at guard, Elijah, Vera Tucker. There's some names there. So, and it's a fairly deep offensive offensive line class as well. You could probably get good value in the third round. So it'll be interesting to see what they do there.

I still don't think that they're going to take a an edge rusher in the first round which a lot of people seem to think like a quitty pay or someone like that just because they've never done that but that is a need as well right now because I am not sold on on Steven Weatherly and DJ Wanham at the other defensive end spot well let's talk about that a little bit more about sort of the trends of things the Vikings do, because I think this off season has been extremely on brand for the Mike Zimmer, Minnesota Vikings. It's been loading up on your defense saying that, you know, oh, well, we'll figure out who's playing where on the offensive line, which is the last thing that

anybody wants to hear. And even though I did snark at the beginning, I do agree with you. The tackle really hasn't been the issue. More than 50% of their pressure last year on Kirk cousins came from right guard and left guard. And, um, you know, if you divide that out, six people can be responsible for pressure quarterback, and then the other five positions and 50% were coming from two guys at the right guard and the left guard positions. And yet here you are looking at those spots saying, we don't even know who's playing there. So it does feel like this blind spot just will forever exist for this team that they don't even take shots really. I mean, someone like Mason Cole, I guess you could call it that, but based on his performance in Arizona, there's no upside.

Sometimes you could see someone's upside. And Chris Reed, it's sort of silly to obsess over one guy for the Panthers who's from Mankato. But that would be a guy who maybe he flies under the radar. You give him no money. He comes in. He's your Joe Berger. Mason Cole just doesn't have that vibe. But you mentioned the defensive end trend. And I think

that that's an interesting take because the defensive ends that they've tried to pick in the fourth round and beyond that have just not really worked out. And we'll see what happens with DJ Wanham. I'm not super confident that he becomes more than a Steven Weatherly. There's Steven Weatherly. There's a Fadi Adenabo who was, you know, maybe a little below average starter. Like, I think that I guess I'm putting more weight into the possibility that they would go with a defensive end because those things just haven't really paid off for them lately. Yeah. It's possible that they've realized that, Hey, they had this, this great run of drafting defensive ends in the third or fourth round.

They landed Brian Robison and Everson Griffin and I think Ray Edwards before that. And then Daniil Hunter being the crown jewel of that. And I think they thought, hey, OK, we can do this. We're better at evaluating middle round defensive ends than every other team in the league. We have the best defensive line coach. We don't ever need to spend a first round pick at this position. And then they've tried to replicate that with Wanhams and other recent examples, and that's not actually a foolproof plan to finding starters or stars.

So I think maybe this could be a year where they're looking at the defense and kind of the one missing piece right now is another pass rusher. And I think that's even more important after the Tomlinson signing because if you have Tomlinson and Pierce in the middle, those guys aren't going to be getting after the passer regularly. So you don't want to have Daniil Hunter as your only, like, really above-average pass rusher. I think they need another guy.

Weatherly and Wanham can then be in the sub-package role where they come into the interior on third downs or they rotate in. I don't think either of those guys are ideal starters. So maybe this is the year they say, all right, we got to spend a first round pick and get a true freak like a Quiddie Paye or a Jalen Phillips or whoever it may be. I think about what Mike Zimmer's done in the past where, and this has happened more and more recently,

where he really puts together an athletic third down rushing package um like in that playoff game against New Orleans he had Griffin and Hunter on the insides Odena Bonawetherly on the outsides you know last year they used Hercules Mata'afa a lot because they liked his speed uh what do you think the third down or like the obvious pass rushing down sub package is right now because when you have Tomlinson and Pierce, like those it's probably not either of those guys I would assume. And they don't have a ton of like three technique depth. I mean,

Armin Watts is not going to be on the field on third down. Jaleel Johnson's probably not going to be back with the team. I can't even think of who else is even really on the roster. James Lynch, like is James Lynch part of your third down pass rushing unit? To me right now, it would probably be four players who are listed as defensive ends, unless you want to put Armin Watts out there. I think he has more pass rushing juice than the two big nose tackles, but not by a ton. He's not a true three tech either.

So I think right now it's probably hunter weatherly want them and like a hercules marafa or jordan brailford or jalen holt like that fourth guy is not going to be super inspiring so i i would love to see them add another pass rusher for multiple reasons to somebody ideally who can start on early downs uh or at least rotate in with with weatherly and want them and then to also beef up what you can do on third down maybe they use anthony bar in more of a pass rushing role i don't really know how that'll all work but they they they need more bodies there for sure i think that it needs to be a rule on the show from here on after that every episode someone who nobody remembered played for the 2020 vikings gets dropped and and Jordan Brailford and his one sack of the Jacksonville Jaguars, right?

It's strip sack, right? Or he, he caused the fumble running down Mike Glennon from behind because for some reason, Mike Glennon was running with the football. And that was my thing. He helped create, he helped create the Odenabo safety in that game, too. He was right there. He had like a 90 PFF grade on like 15 snaps. He did.

He did. Future superstar. We just go by the PFF grades. No, but yeah, that is a rule. Cordrea Tankersley came up with Courtney the other day and Curtis Riley, too. These were real people. I promise you. Don't forget that Kenny Willekes, the seventh round pick for Michigan State is also on this roster for if you're looking for

deep pull. That changes everything. It really does. Sam, I think that that's a great way to make the point that they are nowhere close at defensive end from creating more of a pass rush than they did last year. And this is why I think that it's very realistic that they would look at one of those guys like Quiddy Paye and see Everson Griffin or Jalen Phillips and see the next Daniil Hunter based on his really excellent athleticism and his relative athletic scores were through the roof when he did his pro day. And they would sort of throw caution to the wind with his injury history and say, we need a guy who can get after the passer right now. Here's the way I'm thinking about this because it's so clear that they need this and that

and which way are you going to go with it? And with, you know, the remaining money that you have in free agency, I think there's a better chance of getting a pass rusher in free agency than someone who's a difference maker on the offensive line based on who's still available. But what is more valuable to you, Will? Is it the pass rush and improving that or is it the protection for Kirk Cousins from the interior? The question of what's more valuable, I think has to be evaluated with context. Like normally I would probably say a defensive end is more valuable than a guard. And I think most people would agree with that just because the way the game is played and

the advanced studies have shown that as well, I think. But for the Vikings, it's about looking at the baseline of what they have right now. And while I don't love Weatherly and Wanham rotating at the starting spot opposite Daniel Hunter, I think there's a baseline of performance there that they can get the job done to some degree. I don't think Weatherly or Wanham are going to be a game-changing player, but they are competent. There's a level of decent play that you can get there. That's just not true at guard right now, which is why I think that's more valuable to the Vikings. Even if you're signing one or two guys doing what the Buffalo Bills did last year at veteran minimum, just seeing at home, hey, maybe this guy has a little

upside. And there still are some guards out there who might be able to give you, or who can almost certainly give you more than a Dakota Dozier, but might even be better than Mason Cole, might be decent options in there. So I think that's more valuable to me right now, even if defensive end in a vacuum is a more valuable position. I actually completely agree with that assessment, Will. I think, and Collar, you've stated this too, that on the Vikings in particular, guard is very important. And they've never invested in it. And it keeps burning them.

And for whatever reason, the lesson just doesn't get learned. They don't do the type of things that a team that watches the games, you would assume they would do. Just letting all of the medium-priced guards, the high-priced guards, kind of go off the market with really no whispers of interest, no speculation that they maybe took a shot at some of these guys when they were willing to overspend on someone like Patrick Peterson, who might be on the downhill of his career. So I think the priorities have been out of whack for a while. And I think maybe in theory, the Vikings, you know,

did a study and learned out and guards aren't as valuable. So we should not spend a guard. But I think this is a case where sometimes you have to use the eye test and the eye test keeps saying Kirk Cousins needs interior protection. He's not going to move laterally well. He's going to fumble a lot when the pressure comes into his face and the Vikings just haven't protected him for several years. And they've tried addressing this in the draft and you know, that hasn't worked well either. So it's kind of a multi-year failure, I think on this front. Hey everyone,

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and they're at the whiteboard as a group and they're drawing X's and O's and they're throwing footballs at each other and they're saying, oh, we're going to scheme this and scheme that. And you could see the joy on Mike Zimmer's face when he was talking about figuring out new things to do on defense to slow down the things that offenses have beat them on in recent years. And I have no doubt that Zimmer is absolutely brilliant when it comes to this area, that he's great at making these adjustments with his defense. Why is it, in your guys' maybe best guess,

that that does not seem to apply to the offensive side? That it has been, for the entirety of him being here. You want to be run first. If you have two wide receivers, that's enough wide receivers. I mean, I'm good with using fullbacks and multiple tight ends. Like that stuff is shown to work on early down. So that's totally fine. I don't have a problem with how that's built, but it's like the same things happen over and over and over again. And the one time it was different, the offensive coordinator got fired, you know, kind of late in the season. So I wonder why this is that it's always about we need to advance. We need to be new. We need to be different on defense.

And yet on the offensive side, he says, oh, oh, it's fine. I mean, the tackles, they're fine. I don't know what you guys problem is. We were sixth, even though they weren't sixth in anything. Like, we were fine on offense. We had a good offense last year. Why are you guys so worried about it? It's like, well, we're worried about it because the top four passing teams always make the Super Bowl, and I thought that was kind of a thing we should use as a, what would you call it, like a barometer

or something to point us in the right direction toward the Super Bowl. A goal, maybe. Yeah, right, right. Or just like a compass. The compass points, you know, whatever points toward the Super Bowl maybe yeah right right or just like um a compass the compass ports you know whatever points toward the Super Bowl teams is sort of what you should follow um but I don't know what you guys make of that because I'm always fascinated by how on one side of the ball he's always advancing and on another side of the ball it's like we're no we're fine it's good there

yeah it's interesting because the quote was that offenses have changed so much in the last four or five years. Like it's time we do some things differently on defense and change and adapt. Well, how about you adapt on offense as well to keep up with the other offenses that are changing and maybe do on offense? What scares you as a defensive mind and things that that can kind of stretch the field more and just play more modern play more 11 personnel and things like that and i'm very curious to see how much rain uh free rain clint kubiak gets to to maybe do some stuff like that or if he's going to be kind of boxed into a corner by zimmer or then just or follow very strictly kind of what his dad did last year the last couple years so yeah i i fully agree with you that it's kind of perplexing.

I mean, there was a recent clip of Nick Saban that went viral where he was talking about when he came up as a coach, it was all about running the football and controlling the time of possession and playing good defense. And he admitted recently that that doesn't really work anymore. And that's why he's gone to this spread explosive offense and just outscored everybody with ridiculously good receivers and letting those receivers, which the Vikings have two of, actually shine and make plays and be utilized frequently. So we'll see. I think there needs to be a switch in thinking that happens there. I'm just not necessarily confident that that actually happens.

Yeah, I don't know why we would expect anything different from what we saw from Kevin Stefanski. And Mike Zimmer even compared Clint Kubiak to Kevin Stefanski and said, I see a lot of similarities. And I do, too. I mean, they're both first time play callers. And, you know, it was Stefanski kind of learning this Kubiak offense and executing it. I felt like he threw in the occasional trick play, which we got really excited about because we're like, wow, we never see these things. And then Kubiak came last year and didn't really do any of that stuff. So maybe the only hope I have with Clint,

if he's allowed to impart his own ideas, is that he's actually been a part of some pretty spread offenses. Like when he was in college, I believe Texas A&M in Kansas, they were running air raid, you know, he, with Bill Musgrave, I was going to say muscle men. I was watching that gopher's coaching search too closely. Bill Musgrave ran the West coast and, and Kubiak has actually a lot of influences.

So if he can incorporate a little bit of that, that'd be great. But on the other hand, Stefanski had a bunch of influences too. And he basically ran the strict Kubiak system. So I don't see things changing a lot this year. And if you get somebody who kind of has like a strong will, like a Norv Turner, well, that marriage didn't work. John DiFilippo had his own ideas. That didn't work. It takes a rare person like a Pat Shermer, who I guess is one in a million, who can sort of see eye to eye with Zimmer and strike that perfect balance. I want to know from you guys what in your life you are like zimmer with with offense and

defense i'll tell you mine uh basketball i'm good at sam we've played i can shoot it from deep pretty effectively uh but soccer i am horrible at like i don't really know how to kick the ball correctly um i wouldn't know the rules or anything but even when i tried to play like summer soccer as a kid i just couldn't make it go where i wanted to go i couldn't dribble with it or kick it so like my basketball is zimmer with defense and my soccer is zimmer with offense what is it what is it like with with you guys go ahead i don't know if i have an example for that is it just he's just good at everything there's there's being there's being good at something and being bad at another thing. But there's also like – does it relate to the Zimmer mindset of actually caring about one thing and not caring about another?

I don't – Good point. I don't know. Sam, do you have one? I don't have anything off the top of my head. I don't know if it's a great example, but I would say that me with defense is driving a car uh automatic and then me with offense is driving a car with a stick i mean i would be i would be so stop and start installing out and like flabbergasted at how to even operate it um I feel like that's the best I can do. Well, I guess I think of it as, because I don't know if Zimmer is flabbergasted at how to operate

offense. I mean, I think he's right in when it comes to the play action and stuff like that. Just like when I'm, if I was playing soccer, I could run and, you know, just do some of the soccer things, but I just don't really quite get how it all works or how you're supposed to do it. And there's just like something missing there. Here's a better example would be someone like myself who was really good in English in high school, but really bad at math. There was just something that never really clicked about math. And I didn't really love it. I liked writing. I like talking,

that sort of stuff, but I didn't really like the math part. So as you said, Will, I didn't put a lot of effort into it because I just thought this is, this is boring and I don't really get it. And I think that, you know, maybe Zimmer doesn't say it's boring and I don't get it, but I think that there's just like, there's, there's a passion there for offensive football, maybe because he hates offense and wants to stop it. That is just missing a little bit. And so he wants it to just be okay. And then when with defense and then that's how it feels, I'm sure he'd love to have a number one offense. And I'm sure he'd love to have a quarterback who could actually operate a number one offense. And that's the other part. Like we,

we talk about all these things, the guard, we talk about Zimmer and his philosophy and everything else, but it's been my sort of sneaking suspicion that his first impression of Kirk Cousins was that he turns the ball over all the time. And it made Zimmer's defense rank worse in points allowed in 2018 because of all the turnovers. And since then, he's just never really trusted him. And that a part of this philosophy is that, I don't know if you agree with that, Will. Yeah, that's an interesting thought. Just to double back to your school example, I was going to say that I think most of us who are covering the Vikings or in journalism in some form are probably in a similar boat with the English math disparity there. I definitely am.

Math was never my my strong suit but yeah that's an interesting thought because one thing I said earlier that kind of confuses me is like if Zimmer is this defensive guy and he's always focusing on opposing offenses and how to stop them wouldn't it make sense to try to do the things that give him the most trouble as a defensive guy on your offense to because presumably if he has trouble with them and he's one of the top defensive minds in the NFL then other defensive coordinators are going to have trouble with it too that's what I don't really get like it seems like sometimes he's comfortable with just running out an offense that he himself would probably be able to stop

pretty easily if he was scheming against it so I don't know yeah I mean he he was talking yesterday about you know putting extra defensive backs on the field. Are we going to see some dime defenses this year? But, you know, the equivalent of that on offense would be what? A four wide receiver look. Have we seen any of those the last three years? I mean, it's not that radical to just mix it up once in a while, but it's a very regimented offense.

It's rigid. There's not a lot of flexibility it seems from what we've seen the last few years and I would just love if they could just calibrate a little bit just do what Shanahan does like rotate your running backs use a little more three wide receiver like he's still like bottom 10 in league, but much more balanced. If they could just match the Shanahan, I would be thrilled with that. But they're so extreme with the 21 and the 12 personnel. It's kind of maddening, honestly. So I feel like I maybe haven't pinpointed it quite with these examples, because you and I were probably really bad at math.

And Zimmer, I think he understands that the play actions, white with these examples. Cause you and I will, we're probably really bad at math and Zimmer. I think he understands that the play actions, the bootlegs and things like that. He really understands why they work for Kirk and he really understands why those are difficult for defenses. So, so, so I think the way, here's the way I put it. I have a friend who grew up in Finland, but moved to America when he was like 10 and so if he tries to talk and finish with people who speak and finish all the time he can get his message across but there's just something missing a little bit like the nuances of it that's the way I would look at it is Zimmer can speak the language you can hit the right words to get the message across which would be cousins throwing down the field accurately, receivers running deep routes on these deep overs and things like that.

But there's just this little extra missing that an offensive coach like Sean McVay or like Kyle Shanahan, that they are fluent. They talk that language all the time. And if that was, if it was only necessary in today's game to just like speak the language good enough. OK, but it isn't. And that's where with Clint Kubiak, I think the hope would be that Clint Kubiak gets this command because that's what he's always done. But I'm not really confident that that's going to happen. Yeah, well, with the offense, one thing I'll say is I tweeted out a clip of Zimmer talking about how adapting and changing on defense. And then I kind of clarified that he's talking about defense, not offense. And some people were replying to me and saying, like, why did they need to adapt or change on offense if they were this top 10 group?

And to your point, Zimmer has said he loves the scheme and Kirk Cousins does well in the scheme. And those are all fair points. Like they were a good offense. They have really good players at receiver, at running back. Kirk Cousins was efficient last year after a tough start. And they were top 10 in most metrics. They weren't sixth in any metrics. I don't know where Zimmer got that.

You mentioned that. They were like fourth in yards and like eighth in points and eighth in DVOA so I don't know what they were sixth in but the point is they were a good offense so people would ask okay why do you need to change things just keep the same offense we'll get better on defense go 12 and 5 or whatever the new 17 game schedule but my my response to that would be why would you be why would you settle and just be okay with what they were on offense last year when there's the potential for more? And I,

the thing that I don't think some people understand is you can keep the scheme. You don't have to go this radical West coast air rate. Like you don't have to change it dramatically. Keep the scheme, keep the play action, keep involving Galvin cook. That's fine. Keep running bootlegs, all that stuff, but just modernize it a little bit, a little more 11 personnel, a little bit more creativity with things like screens and reverses and getting the ball into the hands of Justin Jefferson any way possible. And just little things like that, that I think could go a long way if they just make a

slight upgrade to what they do within the same scheme you know i guess i would look at it like you know what is it is it cool to have like 90 of your air be breathable or do you really want like a hundred percent like being 11th is okay and scoring um and the fourth in yards thing i mean everyone watched the same games we watched right right? Like, yeah, fourth in yards doesn't exactly tell the story, I don't think. So, you know. Eighth in scoring percentage. That's really bad. The turnovers were bad.

The three and outs were bad. They were playing from behind against Jacksonville and Carolina. I mean, none of these things scream like you were actually this great, you juggernaut of an offense and that's where you might just kind of be missing it as if you were sort of introducing someone new into how the sport worked and they were like oh well fourth and yards i mean that must mean you were really great well i mean sort of but not exactly because that doesn't offer any context um let me just change directions a little bit here as we go into draft season and the internet is just a flame with Justin Fields takes and so forth. I would love to know your guys draft hills to die on. Like we know what Mike Zimmer's hills to die on are it's defense

and everything about defense. But I'll give you one of one of mine is that the guy that they call um like oh he doesn't care about the game enough or he's the last guy in and the first guy out sort of thing that came up uh with something that dan orlovsky said that that guy usually says to me somebody really wants that guy and that's why that's out there and we should really be thinking he's going to be a star i have my new hill to die on is that i have become super like convinced that justin fields will be a great quarterback so exchange hills to die on with this year's draft with me guys okay with this year's draft i first of all i agree with you on that one i a related hill to die on is that there's no chance in the world that the 49ers traded up to three to draft mac jones you just don't you just don't do that like mac jones could be a good player

is some people have said his ceiling is kurt cousins or or matt ryan or somebody like that which he could he could be a good player. We don't know that for sure. He didn't necessarily look great at his pro day for whatever that's worth. But you don't trade up to three to draft a solid guy. You trade up to three because you want to take a swing at a guy who can get you over the hump and compete with the Mahomes and the Josh Allens and the best of the best. So I think they're going either fields or trey lance or or i guess if zach wilson doesn't go to the jets then he could be in play there

but another hill to die on i think i think kyle pitts is unreal if we're talking about this year's draft i think hot take i think the the bangles should take him over sewell at five um just because i know sewell is awesome and since his offensive line was terrible but i think you can put together a good enough offensive line to where the value of having a kyle pitts who is just going to be a match-up nightmare is more so is more important than having penny sewell there and like some run of the mill tight ends and weapons for Joe Burrow. My favorite stat about Kyle Pitts, 4.91 yards per route run against man coverage, which is like more than two yards better than the next tight end in the

country, which means he can separate. And his 4.4440 would support that that so i think kyle pitts is a freak and i think his like pro day stuff is probably going to propel him to a top 10 pick uh i think he's fantastic but my my uh my hot take my hill to die on and the vikings have been dying on a lot of hills right because last year it was holton hill and this year it's the Rashad Hill. Oh my goodness. Unbelievable. I like that we're on video

so I can see your groans and eye rolls when I say that. And everyone just unsubscribed. So thank you, Sam. Well, at least I went out in style. I think that if the Vikings took Rashad Bateman it it would set up like the most like a a three deep that would be like rivaling the popularity of Moss Carter and Reed like I think that Bateman could be the Jake Reed portion of the equation um and think of just think about what taking a receiver represents, like a stud receiver. You have Jefferson under team control for four more years.

You would have that draft pick under team control for four or five more years. You have Adam Thielen under your control for four more years. Like you would have that group for four years, two of them cheaply. Like that's the case for me for wide receiver three. Because if you look to the future, and unfortunately, Mike Zimmer's not assuming that he's drafting for his replacement. He's drafting for himself, so that doesn't make sense. But if we knew that in two years, the new coach is going to be offensive-minded,

spread the field out, and they could have that in place, and then the new coach could unleash it, how ready would the Vikings be to like, you know, hand the keys off to somebody else? That's my favorite like idea of having a third wide receiver in here doesn't it feel sorry well doesn't it doesn't it sort of feel like i was going to redirect to you just that um there's some level of excitement in the fan base for what could eventually change down the road like even if you don't have some sort of personal thing with spielman or zimmer but the the questions i get the most from fans are kind of like hey like in two years you know they could have this different quarterback and different general manager and different coach. And I, I almost think it's like sort of more interesting to talk about what can happen in two years in some ways.

It is. I think people were excited about the Spielman and Zimmer duo. What went in Zimmer's first few years when he was kind of changing the culture on defense and busting out these incredible defenses and 2015 they won the division and then 2017 obviously was incredible and then they they signed this big quarterback in free agency that's going to get them over the hump and I think people were excited about that and even in 2019 then when they got back to the playoffs and won a game but I I think after last year, and especially if this year is similar and they don't make the playoffs, I think people are going to start to be pretty, I don't know about done,

but pretty close to done with the whole Spielman-Zimmer-Cousins trifecta of leadership. And I think people just, you always want to kind of look to um the the other side of the the road or the other side the grass greener on the other side I don't know what the exact phrase is that I'm trying to use but the idea that pretty pretty soon you could potentially have a new coach you'd maybe have a new general manager you could maybe have a new head a new quarterback like I just think that excites people just because of the possibilities. And like for, for as solid in their respective jobs as all three of those guys are.

And I think they are like, there's a ceiling there that I don't think that people seem to think that they can't reach, especially with, with Zimmer and, and with cousins. And they're frustrated with Spielman for the offensive line thing. So there's kind of like, you could stay with this and you can – I would probably pick them to get back to the playoffs this year with seven teams in the NFC and maybe get a fifth seed or sixth seed or whatever and maybe win a game. But are they going to bust through that ceiling with this current triumvirate?

I don't think so. So I think people get excited about the idea of just having some new blood at those three most important spots. Folks, the football offseason is off and rolling and SodaStick has you covered with Minnesota sports themed gear. Some of my favorite football designs that you have to check out include the Chuck Foreman spin doctor gear. You can commemorate Randy Moss's disgusting act on a shirt or a hoodie. And if you're old school, check out the purple people eaters design as well. Go to SodaStick.com and check them all out.

If you use the promo code Purple Insider, you can get free shipping on all your Minnesota sports inspired gear. All of their apparel is screen printed here in minnesota on super soft super comfy shirts and hoodies you will love it plus keep your eyes and ears out for our giveaways going on on this show as well on social media follow them at soda stick co on twitter and at sodastick.com for your original minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping yeah this feels very much like make or break for the uh triumvirate as you called it it's good uh but the make is a tough thing to put your finger on is the make like 10 wins we've talked about that a little bit like whether that's good or not is the make two playoff wins would it have to be a return trip to the nfc championship would it have

to be a division championship like i haven't really decided what would make people think oh okay they did everything right this is the group you want to go forward with it's not i mean it's like marriages just don't last this long even usually in the nfl and you one of the reasons if you don't have a Rogers as your quarterback or Peyton Manning or something is you kind of get to a point where you go, well, we've tried this over and over again. And now something fresh would at least be more exciting. Let me give you one more hill to die on that I have here that, um, maybe you guys will

agree or disagree with. I think that if you draft anyone, who's a quarterback outside of the first round, you are taking that draft selection, pouring gasoline all over it and lighting it on fire. There's, I think, an idea of like, oh, draft the middle round guy and then maybe he becomes X, Y and Z. And I just don't see it very often. I mean, if you can spot the Dak Prescott of the draft, then congratulations, you're better than me. Because what, Cardell Jones was drafted in the same round as, as him. And you know, the Kirk cousins, now you're going back a long way. Russell Wilson.

Right. Russell Wilson. Right. It's rare. It's rare. But, but even today's Russell Wilson doesn't get drafted in the third round. He's taken number one overall. Like he was a great college player. And now it's, he's made the NFL realize some of the errors of their ways and the same thing even goes for any big arm dude like the the trey lance that must be uh that must be captain sam right i've got a second dog here with captain and i've had to i've had to bow out

a couple times because they do not know how to play quietly that's okay not the first dog in the background of the podcast here um but do you guys agree with that or would you like to see a davis mills or jamie newman taken by the vikings in the say like third or fourth round i i think i mostly agree with it i just think it would be fun to see them take a shot on a guy with some upside and not like a jake browning or this year's jake browning's like sam ellinger in the seventh or whatever like i just think it would be it would be interesting to see them go after like amand or jamie newman or davis mills and yeah there's like a 90 percent chance or maybe more that that guy never becomes a above averageaverage starter in the NFL. But there's a chance with those kind of tools.

And the issue is they have the needs on the offensive line and at defensive end. They could use another receiver, things like that. So I don't know if it's worth using one of their third-round picks on a quarterback who's just kind of a shot in the dark. But I think it would be exciting, mostly because I just think it'd be more fun for them. It'd be fun for them to have a backup quarterback that isn't Sean Mannion. Yeah. You know, you look at every, every like rookie class going back a few years and there's

usually one that does okay. Like last year it was Jalen Hurts and he's a second round pick. That's still pretty high. But even he had his struggles year before that Gardner Minshew you know that that's kind of what you're hoping for but for every Gardner Minshew there is a Ryan Finley or a Will Greer or a Devlin Hodges or a David Blau those are the other rookie quarterbacks that tried to play two years ago and they were awful so the odds of that working out I think are slim that being said if the Vikings are are intending to roll with Browning or Stanley as the backup I would rather have a fourth round pick in that role I I'm sorry like the their infatuation with the developmental quarterback just as never made sense to me I know Heineke, like after five years, finally like did something relevant in the league.

But I think I'm okay upgrading the backup spot. The Vikings just treat that differently, though. They're more about, you know, who's going to be a good soldier and help Kirk out and like be a good teammate. They're not really about who can win us games. They've had a bunch of dogs as backup quarterbacks, right? Uh, okay. Anyway, one, one last question for you, Will, uh, a Friday staple, um, is what is the next move for the Minnesota Vikings? They love to, they love to do like a

Saturday afternoon or Saturday night announcement that they've signed someone or something like that, or, you know, just immediately after this is published. So what is it? What do you think is the next move for them? Next move. So they still have around, I think 7 million in cap space, which they can use because they're going to get more on June 2nd from when Kyle Rudolph comes off the books. I don't know if I would be surprised if they did anything more than like a veteran minimum contract contract at this point, maybe like a Xavier Woods type deal where it's a 1.75 cap hit.

I would, the logical thing to do for the next move would be to sign a guard, right? So, but is that what they will actually do? I don't know. i'll say it is i'll say they sign a guard who has like a 55 pff grade and is like has like 22 games of starting experience and is like and then the reaction will be oh hey signed a guard, but we don't know if he's actually good. So we're kind of in the same place. That's, that's my prediction.

Is somebody going to predict they'll trade for Orlando Brown? That one comes up all the time. I don't see it, but that would be a game changer in terms of how we talk about the offensive line. I just, yeah, I just don't see that one because even if they like relax the scheme fit requirements a little bit, I just don't see that one because even if they, like, relax the scheme fit requirements a little bit, I just don't think he meets those. He's such a guy who's really, like, a powerful guy

and can anchor really well, and that would obviously be great in pass protection, but they still run the ball so much that they need those guys to be able to make those reach blocks and pull and do things like that that i just don't think you're not going from drafting brian o'neill and ezra cleveland these like sprinter tackles to getting a big plotter like orlando blue orlando bloom orlando brown and all of the the draft capital that you would have to give up to get him.

Orlando Bloom would be garbage at tackle. He could play like a slot receiver. Let me see if I can get an Orlando Bloom height and weight here real quick before we wrap up. Orlando Bloom cannot be a big guy. You know how like most celebrities you come across end up being shorter. Yeah. Well, okay. So Google has him at five foot 11 and 44 years old

so hey i mean we've talked about how bad the vikings are at scouting offensive line if they end up with 5 foot 11 44 year old like who's surprised just kidding just kidding uh will raggetts you do great work at sports illustrated sam the dogs were great in the background. You were okay. They were the star. And we will do this again soon, guys. Thanks, Will. Sounds good. Thanks, man.