Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Halloween special: Investigating the Vikings' curse with conspiracy theory researcher Zach Johnson

Episode Date: October 30, 2021

In an extra spooky episode, Matthew Coller gets together with Zach Johnson of the Crackpot podcast to deep dive into sports curses and whether there's actual evidence that the Minnesota Vikings' franchise is cursed. Zach discovers that the Vikings lost the NFL championship trophy, which may be at the root cause of their woes. Do most people believe in curses? How did other franchises overcome them? Should Vikings fans really believe they are cursed? Zach goes deep into the history of sports and beyond to tell us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collard here and this one is a spooky special with Halloween coming up and also a topic that we discuss all the time sort of vaguely here and there. And we say, are the Minnesota Vikings cursed because of all the things that tend to go wrong? And so I decided after asking this question to enough guests and getting enough opinions that we needed an expert on the show. So I am bringing in Zach Johnson of the crackpot podcast where on the show, you guys break down conspiracy theories. You do not perpetuate conspiracy theories. It's very important. You research them, you analyze them, and occasionally you make fun of them. And also Zach, you're a Minnesotan. You have followed the Minnesota Vikings for a long time. And so over the last few days, you have spent your time researching whether the Minnesota

Vikings are indeed actually cursed. And I'm really excited to talk about this. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Huge honor to be here. Big fan of the show. And I will say also, Matthew, this is probably the most normal thing I've looked into in probably the last couple of weeks in terms of conspiracy theory. So this was pretty run of of weeks in terms of conspiracy theory so this was this was pretty run-of-the-mill in terms of some of the stuff we looked at which is good it's refreshing i'll say that much yeah um i'm not going to get into some of the stuff that you guys look into but um you you are brave you are brave gentlemen on the crackpot podcast to go deep diving into all sorts of crazy stuff uh but it's fascinating i was on your show once and we talked about Tom Brady theories and referees

and all sorts of different things. But we didn't get deep into the idea that the Vikings are cursed. Now they have had their luck swing both ways this year, but historically there are many, many things that would go against all possibilities statistically. And so I have said on the show before, I leave the door open to it. But I think we need to begin with what curses are historically, because these have been believed in, you know, really going back to what, like biblical times? Probably even further back than that, but that's exactly right.

So I'll say even before I jump in here, so the show that I do, my friend Tim and I, we met in law school about a decade ago, believe it or not. And we both just love kind of weird off-brand conspiracy theory topics. I think most people do because you can talk music, sports, politics, science, you name it, right? So it's actually really fun. And so looking into this one, I applied kind of the same approach to how we'd examine just about any other conspiracy theory topic. And hence, here we go. It's are the Vikings cursed? Are sports curses real? Got to start with the premise, are curses real? And so that's where I thought, okay, let's just blow the whole thing wide open. Let's break this down. I think, Matthew, you and I will figure this out today.

And folks, this is real. So let's just open it up with a poll here. So in 2009, a Pew Research Center poll found that a full 16% of Americans actually believe that people can cast curses or spells and that bad things can happen to somebody. So 16 is interesting because 16%, because it's not like 2%, which is kind of what I would have thought. It's not like 100%, obviously, but it's not a huge number. So I just found that kind of interesting to get started. And what I, you know, typically when you think about curses, you think about the classics, right? You got King Tut. Basically, everybody who studied the guy dies

like a year later. I'm not trying to make fun of that fact, but that's basically the conspiracy theory. 27 Club, famous musicians dying at the age of 27. You've got Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Amy Winehouse, a whole bunch of others actually covered that topic a few, maybe a year or two ago. Probably a lesser known curse that I found interesting just to get started here was the curse of Utsi. He's the 5,000-year-old bronze age man that was found perfectly preserved in a glacier in the Alps. And it's weird. The forensic pathologist who examined him died in a car accident one year later. The gentleman who helped find the body to begin with died in an avalanche shortly thereafter. The guy who helped lead the rescue mission to find the guy who died in the avalanche died a year later. And so did

somebody from the rescue team. So it's a whole bunch of crazy stuff when you go, huh, maybe only 16% of people in a Pew Research Center study feel comfortable admitting they believe in curses. But geez, you talk to anybody on the street, you might get 50-50 on this stuff. And you talk about some of these classic examples, and this is exactly the reason why. Well, and I think that Vikings fans especially would be at least 75-25 on believing on some sort of curse. Because when you look at the overall history of the franchise, they have been so good. And then they have star players and winning teams and purple people leaders and Randy Moss and all these things that you would have thought would have resulted in one chance to be there. And all the other teams that have winning records like they do historically have all been to a Super Bowl, have all won a Super Bowl.

And when you even go through some teams that have randomly ended up there, I mean, so this is just the broad picture, not even like the individual curses like knees and kickers and stuff, which we'll get to. But just even from the broader perspective that, you know, there are so many other teams that have not even been that good, but for one year, a bunch of stuff kind of goes their way and they at least end up in a Superbowl. The fact that the Vikings have not even ended up in a Superbowl for so long, it just goes entirely against what would

be statistically, uh, I guess what you'd think statistically would happen at least one time. And I think when it comes to curses, there's either one or the other. It's like coincidences that are impossible to explain, like you're talking about with King Tut and so forth, or there's things that just go so far against like, what are the odds of winning this many games year after year? And not one time in the playoffs, having the other team's quarterback get hurt or something, right. Or not having, right. Or, or, or missing a kick when that's all you need to go to the Superbowl. I think this is where Vikings fans thoroughly believe in some sort of, uh, spooky power that is working against them.

Well, when you've ruled out everything else, every other possible logical explanation, believe me, we have, we've tried as somebody who grew up in Northern Minnesota. All right. My, my blood is purple. Unfortunately, um, we can't come up with any other possible explanation. So to me, this is as viable as anything else. Now. Okay. So here's the counter to this though, that the red, the red socks were supposed to be cursed. They won a world series. Not only did they win a world series, but they did something statistically impossible to do it, which was come back from down four games. The Chicago Cubs were this close to blowing their lead against the Cleveland Indians. And then all of a sudden they come back, they win and they celebrate that championship. No more Billy goat. So broadly in sports, have you found in your

research that any franchise consistently has some curse and do they all just dial back to something? Because now you, you, you've discovered something with the Vikings, but I don't know that there's any specific or that people are aware of a specific thing like the Billy goat or curse of the babe. Well, so this is what's interesting, right? And so the fact that I'm sure if you ask every single sports fan, is their franchise cursed? It doesn't matter what it is. I'm sure they'd all say yes. I bet even if you ask the Patriots right now, are the Patriots cursed? Probably they all say yes. Why? Because Tom Brady's no longer playing for them anymore. Surely there's something else going on here. So I think, you know, to some degree, it doesn't even matter spanning different sports where their fans actually believed that their curses existed. And before I go too much further, I do want to say whenever I talk about this kind of stuff, because I recognize it is a little bit weird, I try to think about like, hey, what if I'm explaining this to my grandma or somebody, right?

Just to kind of like help set the stage. And so, you know, kind of going back to the premise of are curses real? Well, what's kind of interesting is if you look across the broad major religions, all of which are many of which have, you know, started in the Old Testament, if you will, there's many references from a religious standpoint to curses. And in fact, even the Catholic Church has, on the record, if you look it up, they believe that you can actually be cursed. You could be the victim of a witchcraft or a spell or some kind of curse. So, you know, to begin with, just understand, let's take the premise that, yeah, curses are real. Well, okay.

Let's look at some of those other examples then, right? So we've got, of course, the curse of Billy the Goat with the Chicago Cubs. Do you know much about the story of this, Matthew? Or, like, I'd love to break it down because it's actually super fun. Okay. So all I know is that a guy wanted to bring a goat to the game and they wouldn't let him. Is that right? Is that the story? Basically? Yes. And actually when he was then like let go or dismissed from the stadium, apparently what he said was them Cubs. And this is a direct quote, they ain't going to win

no more. And this is from a Billy Goat Tavern owner, William Sianis. Curse lasted 71 years, 1945 to 2016. And this is where it's interesting. This is where it's weird. So apparently the curse was broken on the 46th anniversary of cianis's death that same day 46 days i'm sorry 46 years later okay that's no that's weird that is super weird now i mean i don't know what 46 you know the number like an anniversary yeah but uh that is weird that it would happen on the anniversary of his death, though. Exactly. And I think that's what caused people to kind of reverse engineer the whole thing. The next, of course, famously for football fans,

and unfortunately people who are fans of the game Madden, Madden curse. You've got Vic, Donovan McNabb, Sean Alexander, Vince Young, Brett Favre, Troy Polamalu, Peyton Hillis. Dante Culpepper, I think, too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you think it only gets worse, I guess, which is exactly why I chose not to be on the cover of Madden. But let's get let's get into some more football franchises. Right. So as a fan of the Vikings, it's easy to say, geez, we have the worst luck

of anybody. But guess what? Other teams have it worse. Look to the east, our friends in Detroit. Somehow a more miserable franchise and including, by the way, also the Arizona Cardinals. So those two teams statistically have worse records and have not even appeared in a Super Bowl, if you will. But the Cardinals one is really interesting. So apparently the Cardinals in general hold the longest championship drought record. So their most recent championship was in 1947. So it's like the longest in American professional sports. And evidently, if you're going to believe the source of this curse is when the team

moved from Pottsville, Pennsylvania, evidently the citizens put a curse on the Arizona franchise because or the Cardinal franchise, because they were so upset that they weren't able to keep their beloved team. I did not know there was a Pottsville, Pennsylvania. Yeah. You go back enough years. It's weird, right? With these teams.

But sorry for that. Yeah. And even you think about Arizona in the Superbowl that they made recently, they were this close to having an incredible comeback against the Steelers. And then here's Ben Roethlisberger with the game winning drive. And one of the great catches in NFL history when Arizona was there, I have not ever thought of them as a cursed team, but you go back through their history and how long it was from them just being incredibly irrelevant. Like all the way through the Jake Plummer, they draft Jake Plummer, who then goes somewhere else and is a really good quarterback for the Denver Broncos. And I think got them to an AFC championship, went 13 and three,

I believe one year. And then they finally get some good quarterbacks kurt warner gets some close carson palmer gets some close and if i'm not mistaken carson palmer like hurt his finger when they were about to go into the nfc championship game and then fell apart i think was that 2015 if i'm remembering correctly that's about right yeah i didn't even think of them as a team to have a curse maybe because they're just so irrelevant well that's the other thing maybe maybe they were just that cursed, right? Or perhaps, like I said, you can ask any franchise and I'm sure they'd feel the same way. The Lions, let's talk about those miserable friends of ours. So in night, this one's super

interesting, by the way, in 1958, the Detroit Lions traded Bobby Lane to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Okay. And he responded to the trade, supposedly, allegedly saying the Lions would not win for 50 years. He should have said 50 plus. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, 50, 50 more than that. But here's what I love about this one, though. So the Lions post-season record, of course, being 1-10. They beat the Cowboys back in 91 as their only playoff win. Turns out, oddly enough, the Pittsburgh Steelers actually won their fifth Super Bowl in 2006 in Detroit at Ford Field. That's right. Rubbing a little bit of dirt in the wound.

And don't forget,by lane was traded to the pittsburgh steelers so i would just say that's i mean that's proof right there that's science um i just thought it was matt millen i didn't know that it was bobby lane i just thought it was although matt millen and drafting wide receivers high has been justified later on but uh yeah i mean even then like they drafted a bunch of wide receivers. How about having a good quarterback for a long time? And I'm not saying Matt Stafford is Joe Montana, but a good quarterback for a long time. And yet they still could never win anything,

which is stunning in today's game, where if you have a good quarterback, you're at least in the mix. You're at least getting into the playoffs, winning playoff games, giving yourself a chance. And to have for them to have Barry Sanders and Megatron both retire early because they were so disgusted with the franchise is very hard to match. Well, the thing is too, what you got to keep in mind is, you know, when your team is performing

less, uh, is performing worse than chance, like statistical chance, obviously there's got to be something else going on here, right? And to lose for that many years, I'm sorry, guys. The numbers just, the numbers don't lie, okay? One that I found super interesting too here, last kind of football-specific related one here is the Saints, which I never thought, I had no idea this was a real thing. So allegedly, allegedly, the land that the Mercedes-Benz Superdome was built on is cursed. I've heard of this one. Yes. And apparently there's a cemetery nearby, something like this. And so apparently the proof for this curse comes from the fact that for the first 12 years of the Saints existence, they never went to the playoffs. They did not win a playoff Saints existence, they never went to the playoffs.

They did not win a playoff game until 33 years into them being a franchise. So I'm pretty sure for those first 32 years, Saints fans would have said, yeah, we're cursed. Here's where it gets funny though. Okay. So before the 2000 wildcard playoff game against the Rams, the Saints brought out a voodoo priestess by the name of abba k jones to perform a ritual on the field to cleanse the stadium and get rid of the negative spirits do you want to guess what happened matthew i i don't remember what happened the saints won that game wow and thus the curse is broken and they eventually went on to win a super bowl but they did have have, they have had, if they did not have that Super Bowl, basically if they don't recover an onside kick

in that Super Bowl, think about how cursed that franchise was because they had one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time for many, many years and still couldn't do it outside of this one season. They had the Minneapolis miracle happen against them. They had the Nickel, Roby Coleman, famous pass interference happen against them. And think about,, Roby Coleman, famous pass interference happened against them.

And think about that. There's even a play. You have to go back a ways for this, but where they need to score a touchdown on a kickoff to go to the playoffs and they do it, they throw a bunch of laterals and everything else. I don't know if you've ever seen this clip. It's one of the craziest.

It is truly one of the craziest sports things ever happened. They throw all these laterals and they get into the end zone and all they need is an extra point from the old 17 yard extra point to make the playoffs and john carney one of history's greatest kickers misses and they miss the playoffs i mean they have had some of the most and even think about like a routine wildcard weekend loss to the Vikings. Still, they had a great comeback in the game. They lose a coin flip. Kyle Rudolph probably pushes off.

I mean, if they didn't have that Super Bowl, we would be talking about them right up there, neck and neck with the Vikings. You're exactly right. And this is this is super interesting because I remember thinking actually during the Minneapolis miracle, there's no way that the Vikings can lose now because look at we've, we've somehow broken this curse. Uh, the saints, for whatever reason, we seem to have their number or maybe passed on that curse, right? Something like that. But I, you know, it was absolutely shocking that for once luck cut our way, of course, only to get cut down later in Philadelphia, but still, um, the saints, I would absolutely argue would be cursed if they hadn't won that Super Bowl, to your point. At least it wasn't unlucky in Philadelphia. That was a tail whipping.

Yeah, we can only blame coaching and preparedness and all that kind of stuff for that. Yes. Okay, so now let's get into the Vikings here, because your investigation has unveiled something truly fascinating that I have never heard of that may be the source of the curse. So I'd like you to take me through that. Yeah. Well, and to just kind of paint a picture, what I recognize in all of these different examples was there seems to be like a literal curse, like somebody and not just, you know, somebody out in Green Bay just, you know, cursing the Vikings, like there actually seems to be something where a team is cursed, right? And so I thought, geez, there must be something because you can't just, this just shouldn't come out of nowhere. Turns out a person by the name of Ed Thorpe, whom I've never heard of before, turns out he may be the person that's responsible for this. So he evidently was a

well-loved referee, like in the old timey NFL, like this is pre, what do you even call like the 1960, like establishment of the league? Like, you know, it's like pre-modern, modern, pre-modern era sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. So he's, he's from way back in the day. And this is, this is actually before the Lombardi trophy even. So apparently he was this well-loved ref. And so the NFL decided to name the championship trophy after him. In true Vikings fashion, we lost it. We lost the trophy. So before when it was like the NFL playing what, the AFL or something before, again,

the modern era, like that was a trophy that you received. Pre-merger, I guess you would call it pre-merger. Okay. Thank you. Before the pre-merger the trophy was the Ed Thorpe turf trophy. It's almost like winning the Superbowl basically. Rumor has it that the Vikings left it at a gas station. Come on. Come on. When was it? When, what year was this? When was this, when did this happen? You know, Matthew, I apologize. I don't have the exact year in front of me, but I think it was like 1960, 1961. It was right before the Lombardi trophy came to be. Well, in fact, famously the next year it became the Lombardi trophy. And so the idea here, folks, I hate to say it, but through the Vikings own negligence, they actually placed the curse upon themselves, basically, because they left the trophy at a gas station.

I mean, that's the only – they did it to themselves, right? That is astounding that that happened. I mean, of all the – because it was the trophy for many years, right? It was like from the, what, 30s or something? Mid-30s to the mid – I believe actually maybe even the mid-60s. So it was for about 30 years and what's funny is um it is said that the spirit of ed thorpe was rumored also to have cursed the vikings i don't know how that works but apparently it's real um and so to date

of course the vikings have famously lost four superbowls, six NFC championships. Besides the miserable Cardinals fans and the Lions fans, who I would say most of the time don't even have a chance, these numbers are just hideous. But where we should also kind of take this to its next logical conclusion, I think, is that overlap. If you think about concentric circles between luck and superstition and all that kind of stuff. And I'm just kind of like, okay, maybe if it's not a literal curse, perhaps the Vikings are just unlucky. Okay. So looked into it, about 15% of Americans actually are superstitious, pretty similar to the cursing numbers. And also, if you look at the actual numbers around what people believe, people are most likely to believe that like finding money is a sign of good luck. Makes sense. But this is where I wanted to go with this, which is the idea of like lucky charms or something as a way to break a curse.

Yeah. Turns out there's some interesting science behind this. This is real. So I read about a study that took place back in about 2010. They were looking at good luck charms and whether or not there's anything to them. So researchers, what they did is they had, I don't know the exact number of people, let's say 20 people. They gave half the people a ball, a golf ball. They said, this is a good luck golf ball. It's a lucky golf

ball. Weird thing to use because golf is horrible and it curses all of us. No, of course. I mean, maybe you got to work on your shot, Matthew. Yes, a lot. Back to Murray Golf. There's a difference between cursing because of golf and cursed golf. But anyway. Exactly.

That's actually the only thing that explains my game as well. So half were given this supposed like lucky ball and half were given just a regular old ball. And half the students, the students that were putting with the lucky ball actually did better than the students that performed without the lucky ball. And so this is where it's really funny. Similar type of study, same, maybe different group of people, but kind of the same numbers. And they had them perform different tasks with like the lucky golf ball in their pocket versus some that we're told it's just a regular old golf ball. Can you guess what happened there?

They performed better with the lucky golf ball. They did. So there's no real hard science around why, because obviously you can't really assume physics or, you know, E equals MC squared will, you know, make this real or understandable, but what they believe, and I think this is interesting now, because this is where you start talking about kind of galaxy brain, football players, coaches, everybody overthinking stuff is the people, what scientists believe is that when you have like a good luck charm, you're actually behaving or acting more confidently.

And so we can actually laugh about it and say, ha ha, whatever. But in fact, you know, hey, if you've had a lucky charm, you know, that feeling where you're going, oh, I don't have my lucky, you know, X, Y, Z for this job interview. I'm not going to get the job. Right. Like that feeling. So there is there does seem to be something around people feeling lucky, maybe breaking curses through these good luck charms. I have to assume, Matthew, you've been in a number of locker rooms. You've talked to a number of players. You've probably seen some goofy things. I don't know how much you want to disclose here, but I'd be curious what types of rituals or good luck charms maybe you've observed. I don't know about you guys, but I've gotten very good in my life at admitting when I need

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the regular media writes it everyone has to be asked about it do you think that the history of the vikings bad kicking somehow got you? And this would be for Greg Joseph when he missed the kick against Arizona, that he got the question, like, is it some sort of curse? Do you think, or are you aware that Blair Walsh missed his kick? And I do think there is something to this sort of thing, weighing on a kicker or weighing on a coach who has had so many kicks go wrong.

And now statistically the Vikings not only have more kicks missed, but they also have more kicks made against them in terms of versus expectation than any other team. And it's not even really close. So this, this goes against, yeah, this goes against our, like sort of, or goes along with our statistical versus what's expected and the vikings have this in spades going against them and i had a saint thomas professor actually investigate this do other teams make more field goals against the vikings and it's not just at home because they play in a stadium it's on the road too over years and years and years of

football not just mike zimmer era but we went back even i think to the 90s on this as far as they had kicking data and opposing teams have made more against the vikings than against any other team and it's mind-blowing like why would this be um now i don't know why other teams are making them against the vikings but i think that there is something to that when you get signed as the the kicker of the Vikings, there's no like pretending it didn't happen. There's no avoiding it. There's no, you're not going to get asked about it. And I do think that gets into people's heads a little bit. Oh, a hundred percent. You got to think about like, perhaps Mike Zimmer isn't standing there, you know, when it's fourth and short late in the fourth and he's debating, you know, whether or not he's going to go forward or kick it. Like he may not be thinking about a curse, but you're thinking about,

he's thinking about all those other times that, you know, things were missed and not just during his tenure to your point over like the last, you know, 80 years or whatever. It is insane. It is absolutely insane. And so I was also thinking like, how do you break the curse? I mean, how do you, because I believe, and I could be wrong here, but I believe even if the Vikings won the Super Bowl this year, 41 to zero, we would still have probably in the back of our head that fear of, you know, every time a field goal in a big time game, a la the actual Super Bowl. I believe that's probably the only way. But I mean, how can it happen?

How can it happen? I don't know. Well, first you have to get there. Now, this is part of the explanation, I think, for why they are cursed is this year in a nutshell sort of tells you the Vikings have made plenty through their history of game winning kicks. But when you don't have a quarterback that can get you to the Super Bowl or give you a chance year after year after year after year, you often play closer games. You often rely on bounces going your way and kicks going your way. And, uh, you know,

sometimes you earn these like in 98, where Denny green was not aggressive going for a closer kick and then relied on a kick that gets missed, you know, one out of every 10 times, but one out of every 10 times. And think about this, like when something is 90% sports fans think it's a hundred percent, but if you had an an if you had a 10 chance of getting hit by a car every time you walked in the road you would never go close to the road you'd be like one in ten no way right i'm not i'm not trying to test those out so if you kick field goal after field goal after field goal from 38 yards then you know one is gonna miss and if you play uh because you're not maybe confident in

your quarterback at that moment, um, or whatever it might be in that case, they were also playing a really good team in Atlanta. I mean, one of those is going to go wrong. And so I think that that is part of it is when you're always playing this sort of dangerous game of hoping that case Keenum's magic continues in a small sample size going into a team that was completely stacked in Philadelphia well there's a halfway decent chance that the guy throws an interception because he hadn't thrown one all year and so there I think that that is the closest I can get the kicking one I cannot explain at all but I just I feel like they play this game that has more variance than if you have Patrick Mahomes.

And when something goes wrong, say, I mean, now Favre is maybe a different situation for this. But when something goes wrong, oftentimes a great quarterback is able to make up for it. Now, if you have, I don't know what it is, an interception or whatever else, in case Keenum is your quarterback, there's no flipping a switch. And then all of a sudden, okay, he'll go down and score again because he's great. Um, or like Patrick Mahomes, where in the super bowl, he gets his tail whipped for the whole entire game and then makes an amazing throw at the end and beat San Francisco. Whereas San Francisco, they're relying on Jimmy Garoppolo who overthrows the potential game winning.

You know what I mean? So when something goes wrong for them in coverage, it, the margins are much there. That's my things that they've never since Fran had a, a franchise quarterback. Now there also is that too, if you go way back, the fact that they got rid of France, Harkington had some of their strongest teams ever without him, they probably would have won the super bowl. And then he comes back and the team is sort of on the on the back end of its greatness so there's also that like timing is weird too i think what's frustrating as a vikings fan this year is seeing how aggressive they were in the offseason actually generally agreeing with most of their moves and turns out derisat maybe is a decent player right um and now seeing how they play on the field, which to me, with the exception of maybe, maybe, maybe, I think the Browns game, they're totally not aggressive at all.

And I think that's what's frustrating. And so a lot of this stuff can be explained by, yeah, if it's fourth and short and the game's on the line, go for it. You know what? Look at it like a race to what? 50 points. Don't even think about the time. Just get to like 50. I don't even know.

I'm sure PFF could break this down where it's, you know, the median score in a game is XYZ. Okay, just get over that. Just do whatever it takes to get there. And I think that's what's frustrating. And so you don't want to leave a kick to chance. You don't want to leave an errant ball or some sort of drop to happen, right? You want to make sure. Let's run it down the throat.

Let's get this over with and let's get out of here. So I want you to tell me before we wrap up, cause this has been super fun and really fascinating. I just want you to tell me your favorite ones for the Vikings. And by favorite, I mean the ones that eat at your soul. Um, the, just the things that have gone wrong that are so unexplainable that, uh, you know, you, you sit up at night and think how, How did that happen to us? Well, I think I was, I think I was 15, about 15 when the Gary Anderson kick happened. And that really hurt. But actually the one, the one that got away, the one that really still eats me to this day is the Blair Walsh kick.

And the reason is because I think it was Seattle that that went on to beat the panthers right i think it was the panthers in the nfc championship that year uh the panthers beat i think beat did they beat seattle or did they beat arizona because the panthers went to the super bowl 2015 against denver okay and i i believed that year that the vikings were actually much better than the panthers and so it always felt like that was left on the table. What is it? Minus 20. Bud Grant's walking out in a polo shirt. I mean, it's like every – it's finally the cold weather team that he envisioned, right?

Because it's minus 7,000 degrees. My brother-in-law was there. His beer was freezing in the stands, right? And for that hot minute, people, depending on the perspective, actually thought Blair Walsh made the kick. Right there. If you look on YouTube, you'll see sections of fans cheering. And then all of a sudden it's the turnaround. Wait, no, he missed it. That's the one to me that absolutely just still gets me to this day, because I really believe the Vikings were very, very good that year. And that hurts. And then everything else is just like more proof as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, 27 yards, that's different than almost 40 with Gary Anderson. I mean, that is exactly. That should be routine. Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Just double checking the, um, what happened in the playoffs that year.

So I've got it right because you are not the first person to bring this up to me that the road after that would not have been spectacularly difficult. So Seattle played Carolina, Carolina won by a touchdown after that would not have been spectacularly difficult. So Seattle played Carolina. Carolina won by a touchdown after that. And then Carolina beat Arizona 49-15. That was what we were alluding to with Carson Palmer and his hurt finger. Because that was when Aaron Rodgers threw the crazy bombs. And then Arizona still won that game.

And so Palmer got banged up. And if the, and remember the Vikings in 2015 had gone out to Arizona and played a really tight game where they had the ball at the very end. And then there was a little bit of like a play call controversy, but they were right there that they approved even when they were banged up in that game, that they could play with anybody in the NFL. So I think your point is fair. I do think by the numbers, Carolina was a much better team than the Vikings overall. The Vikings were also playing extremely well at that point. So a chance, a chance, not impossible, but you always have to wonder because that was the last you saw of healthy Teddy Bridgewater too. Exactly. And that was the other thing too, was finally the Vikings get, Hey, look, let's face it. He may not be Tom Brady, but Teddy

Bridgewater was a great quarterback, especially after watching Ponder and Castle and that whole situation for a couple of years. I remember the first time Teddy started against the Falcons, I was watching the game, I was excited for once seeing a Vikings quarterback. So to lose, you know, in a playoff game by a miserable 27-yard kick is like, to me, about as bad as it gets. I also think the Hers herschel walker one is crazy too because i mean think about how many trades get made in the world like i'll give

you an example the raiders trade away khalil mac and now maybe that's cursed them to some extent i don't know but uh i think they made their own luck with that one hiring john gruden but anyway uh so they get these first round picks back and everything and do nothing with them. Their first round picks become almost nothing and they just lose that trade because of it. Most trades are like this. I mean, even like the New York Jets aren't winning Super Bowls because they traded away Jamal Adams for a ridiculous return. But this one just turns into a bunch of amazing players for Dallas and guides them to their dominance, which by the way, is connected to another cursed franchise in Buffalo, because

if Herschel Walker is not traded to the Minnesota Vikings, the Buffalo Bills absolutely win one of those Super Bowls. That is so brutal. That is so brutal. Well, I mean, when you look at the franchise, you've got the forced lost Super Bowl, the Herschel Walker trade, Gary Anderson's miskick, 41 donut, Troy Williamson, love boat, um, farm interception, AP blowing his knee out, Teddy blowing his knee out. Now we're onto Greg Joseph and I don't know, we're all just kind of holding our breath, just waiting for that magical, you know, final kick to go through the uprights and break the curse. I don't know how you feel about this. I think that this curse, which we have determined through 36 minutes is real. Yes. I think that it bonds Vikings fans together. I think that it's part

of the reason very much in Cubs and Red Sox like fashion. I think it is a major part of the reason for the passion of this franchise. I'm not saying that winning a Super Bowl is ever bad for a franchise. Of course. I mean, that's always going to relevance and success is always going to up the franchise's profile. But there's something about how it galvanizes a fan base to each year come back with more desperation to hope that their team wins. And I think honestly, I think that I'm the beneficiary of this covering the team. I mean, this is it truly is for a market that's big, but not like New York or L.A. has as much interest.

And this is statistically backed by all the national football sites, has as much interest from fans as Dallas, as LA. Well, maybe LA is not the greatest example as Chicago as like the markets that you would traditionally say are the biggest markets. The Vikings are right there. And I think this is a part of it. The sad thing is that, at this point in time, the Vikings fans just have something to rally around. And I think we'd be lost without it. So to your point, I mean, if we go on and win,

I mean, what's going to happen to the fan base all of a sudden, it's like, Hey, wait a second. Now we're actually winning. That's weird. Okay.

Maybe that's bad luck. Actually. I kind of missed the old Vikings, right? I have Red Sox fans who say it's an, it's never been the same. Like since, since so far,

it has never been the same. Then before you used to, if you knew one Red Sox fan, you'd be like, what a weirdo you are, right? You're a Red Sox fan following this team that always finds a way to lose. And then after that, everyone was a Red Sox fan. And so it sort of lost its luster a little bit, especially I lived in New York at the time. And I mean, you would have never before 04 or 03, they had that walk off against Tim Wakefield. You never would have seen Red Sox jerseys, Jacoby Ellsbury walking around or something.

And then all of a sudden an explosion of them. And it kind of took off and I'm not saying don't root for a Superbowl. Okay. I'm just saying that it took the shine off it a little bit for those people who had suffered for a really long time. Well, the, the really sad thing too, is, you know, after you've say gone to the top, reach the top of the mountain, you don't have any more excuses, right? So after that, it's kind of like, geez, what can we blame this on?

It certainly couldn't be just poor coaching, bad drafting, poor game strategy, none of those things. Unfortunately, that's maybe the case after you break the old curse. So who knows? I got to ask you one question though, Matthew. Yeah, go ahead. The bills are trending up. They're looking good. From your perspective. Are they a cursed franchise? Is, are they finally going to, you know, bring home the Lombardi trophy? So I think that they are a cursed franchise. I don't know why though. Like I can't think of anything that it was ever tied to, uh, but to

have the players that they had in the nineties, all these all pros and hall of famers, the stacked roster that they were able to keep together for as long as they did a hall of fame. Quarterbacks, one of the greatest of all time, one of the greatest running backs ever, one of the greatest receivers ever incredible offensive line,

credible defense to not get there four different times makes you seem pretty cursed. And then, I mean, even last year, like you finally get this big quarterback who's Jim Kelly like, and you get to the AFC championship fall apart. And then Kansas city goes and plays in the super bowl and gets killed. And so you go, well, what, you know, what happened there? We were every bit as good as them. So yeah, I think I think that they fall.

If we're doing a ranking i would say um the the franchises who've gotten close are the most cursed like san diego slash la chargers i think also very very close lots of kicks have gone wrong for them to have phil rivers for that long and never get there is kind of crazy because you just think about this you get a franchise quarterback in rivers he's fantastic and yet here's brady here's roethlisberger here's manning in your conference if they're in the nfc they might have gone to five of them no kidding right it's crazy so exactly um i i think that uh minnesota buffalo and san diego la are the elite of the elite although i'm willing to put arizona

in there as well. Yeah. Arizona. It just kind of feels like they're cheating to me. So whatever. Right. Yeah. Detroit has just been inept. I think they're off the radar now.

Yeah, exactly. The crack pot podcast is a ton of fun, a wild ride. And so people should check that out. Zach, you and Tim do great work. So give it, give it a listen. I think you'll enjoy it. if you like that kind of thing. And once again, I will say you are not creating the conspiracy theories because that has become very popular on the internet in recent years.

You are analyzing some of them in a very fun manner. So this was great. And happy Halloween to everyone, because I think it's very fitting for the time frame. And good luck to everyone. Put a golf ball in your pocket. Call it lucky. I guess that's the lesson. As long as it's lucky, right? As long as it's lucky.

Thanks, Zach. Appreciate it so much. Thanks, Matthew.