Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How are Vikings fans reacting to the TJ Hockenson trade? Let's find out

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Matthew Coller analyzes more deeply the TJ Hockenson trade to the Vikings and what it means in the short and long term and responds to fan reactions to the deal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider presented by Liquid Death. Go to liquiddeath.com slash insider and learn about the Tallboy can, which actually has water. Find out where you can get it near you at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and this is the longer reaction to the trade deadline move to get TJ Hawkinson for the Vikings.

And a couple of things have come down since we recorded our instant instant reaction that came just moments after the trade went down and Jeremiah Searles and I re-recorded after we had done an entire podcast so if you missed that we were kind of just figuring everything out at that moment but now we've had some time to process the trade deadline is over and i have a bunch of fan reaction as well so i'm going to read some of those to you and respond to what vikings fans are saying about the trade for tj hawkinson and another interesting trade happened in the nfc north though i want to talk about a little first is the Chicago Bears trading for Chase Claypool. Now that is a surprising one. I guess they see Chase Claypool as an opportunity to bring someone

in who's young to potentially grow alongside Justin Fields and be a long-term option for them, which sort of made me think about how the Vikings on this trade were able to accomplish the short and long term of things. Because from my perspective, when it first came down, it was entirely about the here and now. This replaces Irv Smith Jr., which, by the way, I don't think we had an idea at the time of how long Irv Smith Jr. was going to be out. But Adam Schefter reported it's going to be two to two and a half months. Now, normally the high ankle sprain is maybe a month, maybe six weeks. That was the initial prognosis that was reported by Jeremy Fowler, but it's going to be longer. So that makes even more sense. This isn't just something you survive for a month with

Johnny Munt and then go forward. I mean, this is a significant injury that could keep Irv Smith Jr. out for a long time. It also changes the analysis a little because I thought, well, look, if Irv is out for a month, then they bring them back and they play them together. Now you're looking at into December by the time Irv Smith could come back in the best case scenario, which still would be good for them. But if you're talking the entire month of November into December, possibly even at the very end of the season, depending on how he heals, then you're not really getting an advantage by using the two tight ends.

And it's sort of the same place you're at right now with Johnny Munt, who is a fine number two tight end, good blocker, can catch the ball when it has to come to him, sort of a David Morgan type, but this is really TJ Hawkinson's show. And then if they get Irv back and they can work him in, in some way early in the playoffs or late in the season, in those last couple of games, that's a bonus. But if this does not heal well for Irv Smith Jr., this might be the last we see of him as a Viking. And just real quick on that, it will go down as a very, very disappointing draft pick if that's the case. And not

that much to Irv Smith's fault. I mean, he came in and was never given a chance to start in the first couple of seasons because they decided to keep Kyle Rudolph. And so he played the role of tight end number two, had his moments, 36 catches in his first year, 30 in 2020, where he showed signs of being a tight end number one at the end of the 2020 season. He really did. I mean, I thought there was reason for a lot of confidence after the 2021 training camp that over that year and this year, he would prove to them that he could be their long-term option at tight end. But you know, my friend, Eric Eager, who comes on the show all the time, he kind of has a saying about tight ends is when you draft them high, you're usually developing them for their next team. And this has turned out to be true of both TJ Hawkinson and Irv Smith Jr.

where, I mean, they didn't exactly develop him over these years because he was injured so much, but it's hard to get a lot out of tight ends early in their careers because it's a, it's a position that takes a really long time for that guy to become the version of himself uh that is that is the best and we've just really seen that uh with a lot of tight ends across the league where they don't hit their stride until maybe third fourth fifth year and and t.j hockinson is even some evidence of that he's having his best year this season he's had some bumps along the way and has been mostly a very good player, but now starting to really emerge as an excellent player at his position.

And so Detroit took him with the eighth overall pick and developed him for the Minnesota Vikings is what ended up happening because they clearly did not want to pay him after this year. He's got his fifth year option, which is a bonus for the future for the Vikings that they do have him for 2023 at $9.3 million, which is a very solid deal for a quality player at his position. Also gives them more time to decide,

is this a guy that we feel like is going to be worth top dollar? So that's an added bonus of this, that it's sort of like a rebuildy type move a little bit just like there's just shade of getting a good player at 25 years old and though he will be more expensive in the future than someone you draft in the second round if you're talking a 25 year old player who is just hitting his peak uh or just beginning, and then still has maybe some ceiling left. And you don't have to let him hit free agency after this year, or even sign him to a massive

contract right away. That's, that's very good for you, but I'm sorry. I got away from the Irv Smith point. The Irv Smith point was just that it looked so many times, like it was going to go in a good direction for him, but the injuries just kept getting in the way. And then he was not the same version of himself early this year. He dropped a wide open pass down the field coming off of thumb surgery and then didn't seem to find his place in the offense. And maybe it was a more complicated offense that was harder to miss an entire training camp.

I think that might've played into it. And maybe they wanted some more blocking. They wanted a bigger guy like Tyler Higby for the Rams to be a part of this offense. So it just wasn't a fit from day one. And if he does not get back on the field for the Vikings, if he's not playing in the playoffs and there's not some major turnaround that would make him stay in Minnesota. I mean, I'm guessing he's going to sign elsewhere where he's going to get a chance now that they've traded for TJ Hawkinson. It just goes down as one of those picks where you go, should you have put him in right away as the starter instead of Kyle Rudolph? I don't know

because Kyle Rudolph catches the game winningwinning pass in the playoffs in 2019, so it's really hard to say that they failed on the Rudolph deal and keeping him for at least that year. Now, the long term of the Rudolph deal is they're still paying for it, so that is a problem with the dead cap hit. But they drafted him out of kind of desperation of the fact that Kyle Rudolph was pressing them on the contract situation and was getting older. And I think that they were looking for that next guy at a key position for them in the Gary Kubiak offense. That tight end is always

very important. Ask Owen Daniels or Shannon Sharp, right? From back in the day. I mean, yeah, that one is going to go down as one of those picks that we question. And I think, wasn't it A.J. Brown who was taken right after him? In a year that the Vikings did need a receiver because they knew that Stephon Diggs was unhappy. But, you know, maybe they don't draft Justin Jefferson if they took A.J. Brown. So that's the funny way history works it's just that irv will go down as one of those guys where you wonder had he stayed healthy what would it have looked like because i think the answer is a lot different than this and as far as hawkinson goes um it's just now that we've had a couple of hours to separate ourselves from the deal i think that overall they gave up a good

amount, a second and a third round pick, but we're not forced to give a first round pick, which is important because it still is up in the air about the quarterback situation. Would they draft a quarterback next year or just stacking the roster around Kirk Cousins for next season, looking for a first rounder that could potentially make an impact with a lot of the same players. So you don't really want to give that up. I mean, leading into the deadline, my thought was if you have to do it to get somebody who is, you know, really good, like a Bradley Chubb, then, well, you know what, go do it. But in this case, they didn't have to, and they get an improvement. The other player that was out there that caught my eye on the trade deadline

was Brandon Cooks, who angrily tweeted after he was not traded to the Dallas Cowboys, which there's another good break for the Vikings that a downfield threat who's proven that would be really good next to CeeDee Lamb was not traded there in Brandon Cooks. And I guess if you compare, would you have wanted the Vikings to trade for Brandon Cooks or trade for TJ Hawkinson? Now that we know that Irv Smith Jr. is out for so long,

I think the answer is Hawkinson. And you add in the fact that he's younger, that he's somebody you could keep for a long time, you can make him one of the centerpieces of your offense alongside Justin Jefferson. He's the answer to a question that you didn't have on multiple levels. I mean, on this year's level, which is who is going to fill in for Irv Smith Jr., but then on the other level of who's going to be your long-term tight end. And now you have the answer to both with TJ

Hawkinson. So it really works on a lot of levels. And as far as the circling back to the Chase Claypool thing, I mean, I just couldn't give the bears a higher grade for what they've done at this trade deadline. Uh, I think that the bears did a tremendous job getting a young ish wide receiver who could be something for them trading away a linebacker who would have been overpaid and and getting great return for that from the baltimore ravens who are you know doing their thing going all in you can't discredit them although if you're the ravens i'm still not sure why you don't get a receiver why do the ravens love trading for defensive players and not receivers for Lamar Jackson? I don't know, but Chase Claypool is at least a proven good wide receiver in the NFL.

And maybe, you know, with Chicago, he can improve and continue to grow a little bit. And I know he's shown some immaturity at times. And if Pittsburgh trades someone away, you do scratch your head a little bit. Like, wait, why is Pittsburgh trading this player away? If it doesn't work out for them, they didn't give up everything. They gave up a second round pick. But getting someone who could potentially be a big part of their future and then trading away for similar return, Roquan Smith, who would have been, it would have been a bad,

bad decision to spend huge dollars on him for a team that was not ready to win, uh, and, and still need some time. So they did a good job there. And also they're, they're trying to find out whether Justin Fields can play. And this is a big part of it. If Justin Fields has no weapons whatsoever, uh, you know, it's just harder to figure it out, like, is it him? Is it the weapons? And it seems that they've discovered a totally crazy thing in Chicago that Justin Fields is fast and he can run. So maybe do that from time to time. But if you get to the end of the season and he can't make much out of Claypool and Mooney isn't doing enough for him and their running game, which has been really good,

is not enough to help Justin Fields, then I think they're going to have halfway to an answer, or two-thirds of the way to an answer on Justin Fields. Although, as I was studying Geno Smith the other day, one thing I realized was that Geno Smith was so poor in his second season, and that's when the Jets gave up for him or gave up on him. And now he's back and playing well. And I looked through quarterbacks through their first two years and a lot of times it was still unclear through their first two years, Matthew Stafford, Eli Manning, Alex Smith. None of those guys were good statistically through their first two seasons. And, you know, now we're going on

Justin Fields here with his second season. So I imagine that they will give him one more and now they get a receiver to help him out and they'll get a bigger sample size on whether Justin Fields can play or not, unless they fall completely off the table, then they've got to be considering it. But if they're a middling team, if they're 6-11 and they grab themselves a receiver for the future now, I think that's a pretty solid move for Ryan Poles in Chicago. And once again, sort of underscores how the Bears and the Vikings took different directions. And, you know, had Ryan Poles come here,

I don't think he was getting rid of any of the players that would have been, like, really important to where they're at right now. I mean, I think you're probably moving on from Adam Thielen and maybe Daniil Hunter, who's been good, but has not been the great version of Daniil Hunter. You're probably trading Kirk Cousins, but if you sign Marcus Mariota, like, where are you? It's probably not six and one though. And so this is where the Vikings now have to make good on this. And this is the last part I want to say before getting to some fan comments is just now the

pressure is on to make good on this because you've made a big trade. You've given up a lot to get TJ Hawkinson. And this is your all in deal. This is your, Hey, believe in us. This is the once a decade shot we get. And, uh, we're, we're going to go for it. Now, if you lose three out of the next four, it's not going to look great, right? It's, I mean, it really, we're not even halfway through the season and what they do in the next section of games is really going to determine how we feel about a lot of things. The overall

direction that they chose the trade that they just made. I support it because I look at the NFC and think, well, you don't have to be perfect, but if they are less than imperfect and downright not good in this next group of games where some of the teams are much harder, I think Washington is a hard game because it's on the road and they have a good defensive line. But then the games after that are extremely difficult. Even stretching out to playing on Thanksgiving, that's a short week. You're playing Bill Belichick.

So there are challenges on the way. And if you pass those and you come out of this, even two out of four games, as long as you don't fall on your face, then you are looking at being a legitimate contender and justifying everything you've done to go all in on this season. And then in Chicago, I mean, Ryan Poles, I think has gotten it completely right. Trading away Robert Quinn, trading away Roquan Smith. These are not guys that at this point you want to pay when you can't actually win anything. And they're going to need a couple of years, but their reset button has been right. Whether it would have been right here, um, is now harder to say with where the Vikings stand. And this is why when we talk about,

like, did they make the right call? It's still very much yet to be determined because getting here is a key point for making the right call, getting to the point where you're a buyer, you're a winner. That's that means you made the right call up until this point, but that can change. Um, so they have to make sure it doesn't. And that's really their goal over the next month. Make sure that by the end of November, you're still saying we did all the right things, getting Zedaria Smith, getting Patrick Peterson, so forth. Like I like make sure that by the end of this month, you're still saying that. All right, let's get to some of your reactions.

A lot of good tweets in response. From LOLOSAlex on Twitter says, you frequently talk on your podcast about how quarterbacks like Cousins and Stafford get only one shot throughout their careers, and they have to take it when it comes to win the Super Bowl, I assume you mean. It looks like it's shaping up to be that one shot for kirk cousins no excuses for anymore for him anymore gotta step up yeah that's an interesting thing and and i started looking in the off season at all these different quarterbacks at quarterbacks that are the all-time greats the ones that we would consider fringy Hall of Famers,

and then the ones that we would consider 500 quarterbacks, and then, you know, beyond that, you know, who cares? But obviously we know where Kirk Cousins falls into that. A guy who is in the mid-pack of the league where I would compare of the last era him to Jay Cutler somebody who had really good stretches had some poor stretches and at the end of the day comes out around 500 now they had different skill sets Jay Cutler had this crazy arm and threw interceptions all the time Cousins is more apt to be very conservative with the ball so they're not cut from the same cloth, but as far as if you're just chunking quarterbacks, okay, here's the all-time greats. Elway, Marino, Brady, Manning. Okay, now here's your next group.

Your next group down. Rivers, Ryan, Eli Manning. Like all those guys that are franchise quarterbacks, clear cut, that played for basically one team their entire career except for at the very end that their teams never wanted anybody else to be their quarterback. That's the next one. And then the next group is guys like Kirk and Jay Cutler, where, you know, one team didn't want them. They went to the next team. They had some winning seasons. They had some less winning seasons, didn't have a ton of post-season success. But I did find, like you said, that a lot of those quarterbacks who we

consider of the Cousins or Cutler ilk that are good and that fans argue over constantly and things like that, but not of the true franchise, put your name in the rafters type, like an Eli Manning or a Matt Ryan, that they usually get one shot. And I will give you the example with Jay Cutler of his one shot. Let me call this up real quick. Because this is what really solidified it for me with him. And then the next group just like can't win. That's like your Ryan Fitzpatrick's and so forth that can start games but are not good enough. Which season was it for Jay Cutler?

I believe it was 2010 so 2010 season he goes 10 and 5 as a starter and has one of his one of his one of his good seasons but it was not his best statistical season which is actually matching up with kirk cousins although stats were a little bit different um in 2010 they are now, but that Chicago Bears team was extremely good. They had the fourth best defense in the NFL. And when they got to the playoffs, they just got a favorable matchup in the first round. They played against Seattle and Seattle was seven and nine. Was this the year Seattle? Yeah, I think it was the year that Seattle won their division at seven to nine. So does that sound familiar? Like that sounds like this year where the NFC or at least a couple of divisions were not super tough. And then they went to the conference

champions game against the Packers and that's where Jay Cutler got hurt. And ESPN have freaked out because they showed him on the sideline where he wasn't standing the right way or something like kind of, kind of Kirky and stuff of reading the body language and all that. Caleb Haney came in the game. It just wasn't great. And a green Bay went on to win the Super bowl after that, as everyone knows. But, um, that was the year, like that was their chance. And even in that game, when Cutler went out, they still only lost by seven points because their defense with Lovey Smith was so good. And so they missed their shot. Like Jay Cutler missed his one shot because of an injury in the game, uh, in the biggest game, they weren't perfect. They didn't have a perfect offense that

year. Um, but everything fell their way and the playoff matchup fell their way. And so that's what happened. And that's kind of like what we're looking at here potentially is Kirk Cousins one shot. I agree with you. And I think he has to play better, though. I mean, it's not just quarterback rating, which we've talked about is not a great stat for a long time. It's not perfect, but really it's where they stand in the efficiency for passing the football. It's just not great. And normally you have to be great in passing efficiency to make it

deep in the playoffs. Because the thing about this defense is it's just not going to hold anybody to nothing. And we've seen that, that even offenses that aren't good are still able to move the football against this defense. So they need more efficient passing. And here's a funny little stat for you that the Vikings are 11th in expected points added through the air, which is basically where they've been through the entire Cousins era. 10th is the Marcus Mariota-led Atlanta Falcons. That's funny. Eighth is Seattle. Seventh, surprisingly, is Tampa Bay. I am very surprised by that, considering how Tom Brady has looked. San Francisco sixth, Philadelphia fifth, and Philadelphia is the best in the NFC at fifth.

So how crazy is that? They are one, two, three, two three four five they're sixth in their conference so that's good um and and that just kind of tells you what kind of year they are uh that we're that we're dealing with here but i think it's got to be better than that i i don't think it can be uh 11th in the nfl and go into the playoffs feeling super confident that they can go to the super bowl if their passing game continues to be up and down. Now, maybe Hawkinson helps that, but it does have to be better. So that's your whole point is like, hey, Kirk, this is your one shot. It's got to be better than what it's been so far.

And I agree with you. And that's kind of the bet that they're making with TJ Hawkinson. Folks, you've heard me talk about liquid death, and I'm glad to see that some of you are getting on board. I got a great tweet from a listener the other day talking about how liquid death has helped him kick sugary drinks and slim down. And also, for the longest time, my wife was the type of person to carry a water bottle everywhere because she didn't like the idea of buying so many plastic bottles. Well, that's the reason it's called Liquid Death, to bring an end to plastic bottles and instead use aluminum cans, which are easier to recycle for profit

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7-Eleven, and many more stores. Find out where liquiddeath.com slash insider. That's liquiddeath.com slash insider. All right, this comes from Jeff the Johnson on Twitter. Says, because meaningful trades within divisions are considered a no-no, rarely have the Vikings traded with the Lions. Given the history of the Detroit Lions football team, we should consider the possibility that the Vikings have been missing out in that regard. So good trade.

I'll never understand the in the division thing. Make your trades. Do it. Do it. Do trades that work for both teams. All the time, teams are working on different timelines. And yes, if Jamison Williams becomes the next great wide receiver in the NFL, we are definitely going to look back and go, whoops.

Like, well, that hurt you. And that's why. Because you don't want that thrown in your face all the time. So I think it is a little situation dependent. But in this spot, I mean, this is one where it's a no-brainer for both teams. If you're not going to re-sign Hawkinson, if you're Detroit and you're the Vikings, you need this tight end right now for this year and you're not really competing outside of one football game later this year, there's no reason not to do it. There's no reason not to trade within the division. It's just one more game per year. And yes, you're competing for that division crown in the playoff spot. And you wouldn't want to trade a quarterback within the division because then, you know, Favre coming to Minnesota and rubbing it in Green Bay's face with two wins in 2009.

Like, that's not what you want if you're a team in the division. A tight end, though? Yeah, you can make that deal. There's probably been many deals that never happened because one gm was too afraid to trade within the division although the one counter argument is the lions maybe haven't had a ton to offer i mean you talk about how bad they've been did they have a lot that you wanted to take away from them i don't know uh this comes from at n matt 71 says i've always heard tight end is one of the hardest positions to learn so how do you streamline his integration into the offense to make him useful

now uh yes it is one of the hardest positions to learn i don't think in today's nfl it is insanely hard to go from one team to the next like it might have been and this really shows in the increase in trades because everybody has so much more knowledge and information than they had before and so i bet by 3 p.m today tj hockinson had a team issued ipad and next week's game plan dialed up into that ipad and and was already studying it. And one thing that they can do is they can slowly integrate him over a couple of weeks because this is a long-term play. And you have Johnny Munt there that knows the entire offense. That's going to be really helpful. Johnny Munt, of all people, is probably still the most knowledgeable person in Kevin O'Connell's

offense because he's the only guy that was with the Rams before. And now he's in the same room as TJ Hawkinson. If you end up putting in 15 plays for TJ Hawkinson, where, you know, he is comfortable with those plays. Then after that two, three weeks, these guys can start to pick it up. You don't have to memorize every single play in an entire playbook. Now you, you certainly want to understand all the concepts, but a lot of the things are the same. They might just have different words. So if TJ Hawkinson can understand the game plan right away, and he plays 20 plays and they put them in and they say, look, we're going to use these 20 plays for you. You're going to be on the field for these. So just get this week's game plan going and then spend the next couple of weeks sort of

cramming, understanding our concepts, understanding our words. And it is a difficult position because you have to get the details of the running game down for blocking the pass protection down for blocking and all of the route combinations, the motions. I mean, it's a complicated game. I don't think you could trade for any goofball who doesn't understand football. You have to trade for somebody who's going to be able to master this pretty quickly, but you're integrating him over a couple of weeks, and it's really for the stretch and for the playoffs and to win the division. And by then, by a couple weeks, by the end of November, the guy will be a Viking and

he's going to be fully integrated. If you were trying to trade for him to win one game, well, no, that probably wouldn't be that helpful. But you've got an entire half a season. I think he'll be able to figure it out. And if he's come this far in the NFL and been a success and plays every snap, then he knows football already. Like that's, that's the biggest challenge is even establishing yourself as an NFL player at the tight end position. And he's got two 60 catch

seasons. He's done great this year so far. I mean, this is a guy who knows football. He should be able to do it. It shouldn't be a massive problem, but in Washington, I would not expect him to play 70 snaps. Uh, I would expect more like 25 and then you'll see Johnny month out there for a lot of snaps as well. That's what I would expect just because of how difficult it is to pop in. But that's, yeah, that's a great question. Um, this comes from Steve DJ on Twitter. Uh, where do you think he'll end up in the pecking order for target priority? Uh, is this a fantasy question, Steve? No, I'm just kidding. But, uh, you know, honestly, this for fantasy players probably is a big question. I think that he, if I had to guess, will become Kirk Cousins' second favorite target.

Kirk Cousins, when he's had tight ends in the past, didn't always throw to them, depending on the guy. Kyle Rudolph is still not super happy, but if you added up how much he threw to Irv Smith and Kyle Rudolph in 2019, 2020, and Tyler Conklin that year as well. I mean, it's a position he goes to. And when he was in Washington, he loved throwing to the tight end position when they had two very good tight ends there. So I think that TJ Hawkinson, maybe not right away, but by the end of the next couple of games might even end up being Kirk Cousins' second favorite target. I would not be surprised if this year down the stretch, when we're talking about the last seven, eight games of the season,

if it's Justin Jefferson, then TJ Hawkinson in terms of catches, and then Adam Thielen, then KJ Osborne, I think that he wanted to throw to Irv Smith a lot this year, and it was not all that successful. But one of the things that cousins likes to do is just keep the ball rolling right get that easy completion keep the things on the track don't take too big of a risk like that's who he's become as a quarterback and tj hockinson allows him to do that like this is a security blanket for him that i think he's really going to like. So I think that right away,

you're talking about mixing them in, expect a handful of catches per week, but as it continues in the best case scenario, he might become their second leading receiver. I would not be terribly shocked by that. Also, I think wasn't Tyler Higby the second leading receiver in maybe catches last year for the Rams? Like this offense, I believe, wants to go to the tight end. They just have not been able to do it effectively. This from at McKinney MN seems like a great trade for the short and long term. Instantly upgrades a position with a young top five player at that position. Maybe a little bit too much credit to him.

Top five. I don't know. Maybe top 10 at this moment with an opportunity to continue to improve as tight ends do. Uh, anyway, that's my commentary, not, uh, Aaron's Aaron McKinney, um, on Twitter. Anyway, uh, let's see. So, uh, likely leads to an extension due to the inevitability of moving on from Merv Smith. Yes. Yeah, Aaron, I agree, man. I think that this one pretty much says that unless this is a disaster, which I would be very surprised by if it was, considering TJ Hawkinson's track record,

unless it's a disaster, this is your tight end for a long time. And this is a guy who could go down the field, a guy who can make plays after the catch, has really good hands, and did not grade well so far as a run blocker. I'm going to have to look about his career run blocking and see if he's got a better history in the past. Because his size would suggest that he would be a good run blocker. And I think they wanted more size.

He hasn't really been that so far this year. I'm checking on last year. Was he at least solid? No, it on last year. Was he, was he at least solid? No, it was not great. Um, 2020 was those, these, the small samples sometimes with the PFF grades, you make a few mistakes and they'll really ding you. Um, so overall I think his run block and grades have been, uh, okay. At least in 2020, it was really good. Um, so you know, you have this all around complete tight end who can be a playmaker for you, and you want to keep that long-term. And I think that was probably something that really attracted them to this.

And if we hear from Kweisi Adafomensa, which we did not today and haven't since cut-down day, but I would think that he will talk tomorrow out at TCO Performance Center, which will be Wednesday, depending on when you're listening to this, but it'll be Wednesday. I think that's what he's going to say. It's like this gave them an opportunity to long-term have this player and keep him and re-sign him potentially

and make him a centerpiece of this offense. And then you start looking around and go, okay, all right. So you have you know t.j hockinson justin jefferson christian derisaw brian o'neill we'll see on garrett bradbury how they feel about him long term they could re-sign him uh we'll see on ezra cleveland they could re-sign him but these are young players and kj osborne i think will stay on this team and be a decent receiver i I think they've got some work to do with him on where he fits in, but we've seen it before. So he's a guy on the team.

Like that's a lot of players. That's a real foundation to your offense. So if they do change quarterbacks at some point, like I think it's a huge deal. What you give your quarterback, whether it's Kirk cousins or a young quarterback, especially what you give your quarterback, whether it's Kirk Cousins or a young quarterback, especially what you give him from the outset is a big deal. You know, you give some of these guys who might even be just okay prospects, a great situation. And you end up with Jalen Hurts, who looks like an MVP contender. And I'm not saying that he hasn't gotten better, but boy, if they put a lot around him and that's the way to do it, if you're going to win with a rookie quarterback contract, it's not just get the rookie and then profit. I mean, people were, you know,

talking to me on Twitter about Mac Jones. It's like, you can't compare what Mac Jones has right now in new England, a team that's kind of lost, versus what he would have here. I mean, with Justin Jefferson and the offensive coordinator that you have, or the head coach, or even if it was before with the Kubiak system versus Matt Patricia. I mean, my goodness. It's a very big difference, especially with an elite receiver who's putting up all time, great numbers, like, and a left tackle who was just like created by God and sat down here. I mean,

like Christian Darasau is one of the most impressive physical players in the NFL and now is coming to fruition as a great player. Like this is a great offensive setup for now and later. And this is kind of the next piece of that. There's going to have to be another young receiver that comes in eventually with Thielen getting older. But I mean, this is, this is, yeah, one of the better offensive setups for any quarterback in the league. If they're able to keep TJ Hawkinson long-term, I think that's definitely a part of it. Folks, I know you've heard me talk about SodaStick for a long time now, but I'm telling you, you have to start following them on social media

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That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com on Twitter and use the code Purple Insider to get 15% off your purchase. All right. Um, let's see. So this comes from at Vikings after dark. I think this is a sign that Kwesi may plan to start unloading some aging veterans for draft capital while making moves like this that replace veterans with younger players on team control are all part of the competitive rebuild thoughts. Uh, you, I assume you mean after this season. Um, I don't think that, no, I don't think there is, I don't think a competitive rebuild is real. I don't think it's anything. I mean, it's favorable to get a young player who can help you win now, but there's no guarantee the guy is actually here long-term.

I mean, he could decide to hit free agency. You've got his fifth year option. And then, you know, after that he could just leave, like he doesn't have to stay. I think that if it goes well, he probably will. And that's part of the equation and having him for another year is important, but this is not a competitive rebuild move. Competitive rebuild moves would be staying pat at the trade deadline or trading something away that you could afford to trade away. Think of it this way. A competitive rebuild move would be trading Harrison Smith. That is a competitive rebuild move because you trade away Harrison Smith and you put in Josh Metellus. And what you'd be arguing is we can still win all these games with an average safety as opposed to a great safety. And that's not what they did. They more

of pushed the chips into the middle of the table. They gave up future draft capital and said, we're going for it with this player. And Oh, great. He's on the team next year too. Now after this year, I don't know because we don't really know where these guys are going to stand, but here would be my question. How are you getting out from under these contracts when you made them unfavorable to get out from under last offseason with restructures and extensions and things like that? It's not easy to walk away from Daniil Hunter. It's not easy to walk away from Adam Thielen. It's not easy to walk away from Harrison Smith with the way that their contracts are structured. So you kind of have to go competitive for this year and next year,

which means if they're going to draft a quarterback, he probably sits for a year or they just don't do it at all, which I, it would be my bet right now, depending on how it plays out. If they were to completely let this fall apart, then yes. yes yes if they were to go from six and one to ten and seven or nine and eight if it really went sideways okay now it's hard to see and they've got the lions on the schedule they've got i think they could beat the jets i mean they've got indianapolis like there's so much chicago I mean, there's just so many winnable games the rest of the way, but if you end up 10 and seven and it's just really looking ugly at the end and get blown out in the first round of the playoffs, then yes, they would look for

ways to move on from some of these players and create the cap space and so forth and do a little more competitive rebuilding. Because that means that the guys who have played well so far that are veterans like peterson like harrison smith and so forth that would mean that they fell apart down the stretch i just don't see it like i i think you're looking at probably an 11 or 12 win season it no i mean of course this is the vikings like anything could go wrong but like that's the way you would more chart. The course is say 11 wins. A lot of these players stay healthy and continue to play pretty well that are veterans. And they all come back again next year. And you take another swing and you do what you can with

the cap. You sign a few more players to fill up your weaknesses. You try to develop a few more guys. And where I've been really impressed. this is a total side point is that they are developing players on special teams Brian Asamoah Josh Metellus you know these guys are making plays on special teams and showing that they belong in the NFL and those are guys that you might need in the future for depth and so forth for next year so I think competitive rebuild doesn't exist I don't think it's real I think it's try to win everything you can this year and probably next year, at least the way that it stands right now. And if you take a quarterback and you know, well, then we're talking about a different story. Then it's more of a competitive rebuild. Were they to draft a

quarterback? But if you win 12, I would not expect it. I would expect more Kirk Cousins in your life if they win 12 games. This comes from at Miles Shoney. Sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong on Twitter. I understand tight end does not equal fullback, but do you think this means more C.J. Hamm? I feel like he's been a milk carton this season. Well, let's take a look. Let's take a look at his snap count. Because it does feel like there has been a milk carton this season well let's take a look let's take a look at his snap count because it does feel like there has been less cj ham uh this year but i'm curious

to see if that's really accurate by his snaps or if it's just kind of our feeling so he has a total of 78 snaps so far and they have played seven games well Well, let's take a look at what that is. All right. So well, that's about, that's about 11 snaps per game. Last year he played 376 divided by 17. I think he was healthy all year. That was 22 snaps a game. Oh yeah. So his playing time has essentially been cut in half. I would not suspect that trading for a tight end means more fullback play now um i i believe that they like him as a mix it up type of player but when your last name is kubiak you love the fullback and i don't know that kevin o'connell loves the fullback i don't know that he really knows how to use the fullback entirely when i look at cj Hamm's numbers, I mean, he was very

effective in the passing game last year, actually caught a goal ball last year. He's had a handful of runs that are explosive plays that take teams by surprise. And he's generally been a very good pass protector when called upon. And this year that has not really been the case. His run blocking grade is down by PFF, and he hasn't had even a couple of plays with the ball that we normally expect from him. I think that it's just a case of they really like C.J. Hamm, and he's a really good special teamer.

He can do so many different things for you. Let's say they didn't get this trade done. C.J. Hamm is tight end too, right? This guy is an excellent football player, just all around a a football player but as far as integrating him to the offense it's not a kevin o'connell thing this is a three wide receiver type of offense and it probably doesn't mean more cj ham for this year uh it'll probably be i mean maybe in the very immediate like as in this week next week you'll see him a little bit more. But as soon as TJ Hockinson's ready to go.

Yeah, it's probably probably not. It's just not really the fit that it was with a Kubiak offense. All right. Let's see this from at DER underscore general. They were really just looking for one guy in the league that totally looks like a real Viking. I had the same thought. TJ hockinson fits the bill if you have not seen i mean first name is hockinson but also if you've seen him it's the long hair it's the beer i mean he has it all at all happening this i mean i guess you could make the case that he was a little lion-esque

in his mane but it's more like a viking yeah i agree with that if you're going just for looks this is your guy uh at sam route 43 on twitter let's see says i like it moving back uh from the high 50s to the low 100s to add a legitimate weapon while the iron's hot he's a chain mover with two-thirds of his catches going for first downs in his career despite a low average depth of target yeah he can run after the catch that that's a thing that is impressive about Hawkinson is that, that the guy, he is hard to tackle like a guy named Hawkinson, right? Like that's, that's the best way I could put it. Like that's, that's what it is. He gets tackled like a guy named Hawkinson. He doesn't make it easy for you. And that's quality for them.

I mean, because a lot of these passes from Cousins to the tight end are underneath. You're not going deep too often. And a tight end that can run with the ball after and break a few tackles and just Hawkinson a dude or two, like that's, yeah, that's a benefit, especially for Cousins who's not pushing it down the field. But can he play guard at Tim Lundberg says? No, and they're going to have to address that if it stays the way it is. I think that Sunday was a panic button moment for the right guard.

But you don't really need to trade for one, and it's very hard to trade for one because people usually don't trade their guards. And while I think it's challenging for a tight end to fit in or a receiver or running back, it's really hard for an offensive lineman to come from another team. Usually you don't see too many trades with those guys. They've got the answers on the roster, other players who have played, who have started. And I mean, Udo and, and of course, Chris Reed, like these guys have started before and as, as poor as Udo was at times, his numbers were better than Ed Ingram. And so that's going to be a tough decision. So yeah, he can't play guard, but I don't think this was a day where they necessarily had to trade for a guard uh let's see this from uh at nicholas m

1993 nobody's asking the important question what does this mean for johnny munt nothing really doesn't mean anything really i mean he's a tight end number two more of probably a tight end number three like a traditional pass blocking guy a run blocking guy who plays in those big sets, who can catch the occasional surprise pass and get a first down. That's who he is. That's who he's going to be. And he'll continue to be the same way. Um, at CJ McCauley says, I haven't listened to the initial reaction yet. So my uninfluenced reaction is a win. Uh, haven't looked at the contract, but would love a TJ to be Rudolph 2.0. I also remember that Kirk didn't throw to Rudolph as much as he should have. However, maybe a future QB might. Yeah. And I think that with Hawkinson, maybe, uh, just the ability to,

um, like run faster than Kyle Rudolph. Let me, let me pull this up. Relative athletic score. You know, like this is, we haven't done this in a while with relative athletic scores. That's for those who are here for draft season. They remember our wonderful relative athletic scores, but you know, Kyle Rudolph, by the time Kirk Cousins got here was not very quick. And the issue with Cousins is always that he won't throw it unless you're open. Now, him throwing to Justin Jefferson a jump ball the other day was like, oh, wow, a jump ball. And that's just not something he's done a whole lot. And he's definitely not doing it for anybody except Justin Jefferson, I think at this point. Let's see. Let me try to get Hawkinson and his athletic scores here to give us an idea.

Yeah. Okay. Got it. He is a 93rd percentile athlete, TJ Hawkinson, and he's 25 years old. Let me get his exact scores for you guys, because you've made it this far in the podcast. And I appreciate that. This man ran a four seven 40, which is is pretty solid that's 68th percentile with a vertical jump of 37 inches wow that's very impressive uh broad jump of 123 that's in the 91st percentile 20 yard shuttle that's kind of the quickness 87th percentile the point is that the athletic ability of tj hockinson is different from that of kyle rudolph and the yards Hawkinson is different from that of Kyle Rudolph. And the yards after catch ability is different than Kyle Rudolph because Rudolph was kind of down wherever he caught it for the most part. And that is not the case with TJ Hawkinson. So, and, and just,

well, I'll look up one more stat just while we're all here doing this about TJ Hawkinson, because it is Hawkinson Day here in Minnesota. Let me see if I can find his yards after catch and what that exact number is. Because why not, right? That's what you want to know. All right, let's see. 8.2 yards after catches. That's something he's done for his whole career.

That seems pretty impressive. I'll find out where that ranks. Yards after reception. Okay, so this year that's pretty high, 8.2. That's his whole career. That seems pretty impressive. Let me, I'll find out where that ranks. Yards after a seven. Okay. So this year that's pretty high. 8.2. That's his career high. 5.0 for his career. Where does that rank this season? I'm curious among all tight ends. Cause that has to be pretty high among tight ends for yards after catch. You don't see that too often that somebody is averaging eight yards of catch as a tight end okay let's find out it might be at the top of the league uh dallas goddard is number one tj hockinson number two there you go and he's also played a third of his snaps in the slot so he's a guy that they can really put out

as a receiver yeah that's a good number i mean that's that's a big difference if you're talking about the difference between him and kyle rudolph's it. This man can run with the football. So there you go. TJ Hawkinson, Minnesota Viking. They're all in. And so are we with our coverage here at Purple Insider. Of course, if you want to add on to these fans only, this was kind of a special one where I just read off of one tweet all of people's reactions.

But general questions, purpleinsider.com or at Twitter, uh, at Matthew Collar on Twitter, send me a DM, tag it with the fans only. And in fact, let me just check real quick. I might've gotten one more DM that I didn't read and I feel bad when that happens. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, let's see. Uh, this is, and hopefully Brandon listened this long to get his, his reaction reaction so this comes from brand i was just reminded that i got a couple dms as well um so this one came from brandon through the dm um and he actually gave a pronunciation of his twitter handle because he knows how often i butcher them it's uh at b she wall is is his twitter uh says my reaction

is i love it. They basically upgrade from Irv Smith to Hawkinson with minimal changes. TJ is more reliable, more effective on the field and a great upgrade dropping from a late second to early fourth, and then likely moving down with a handful of picks in 2024. Isn't bad for a solid first rounder. Add to that. They will get a, or might get a comp pick if they let irv walk after this season yeah i don't know what kind of comp pick that's going to be with irv smith looking at

his recent history it's probably not of any significance but yeah that's possible but i mean you're really not looking at something big for a guy that caught 22 passes this year didn't play last year um anyway hopefully they convert his $9 million owed next year to a bonus on a long-term deal this offseason to spread out his cap hit. Yeah, I mean, they can do an extension, right? Yeah, they can do an extension. If they don't, then they can tag him or let him go elsewhere for a higher comp pick. The one thing about comp picks is, like, let's not talk about comp picks.

They just don't mean a whole lot. I mean, the highest you could get as a third rounder, but you better have like John Elway to get a third rounder. So I don't, I don't really like factor that in a whole lot. Maybe I should more, but it's always a discussion around draft time. Like, or we get to the point where they announced them and it's just like, well, the Vikings got one sixth for their comp picks. Like, I don't really factor that too much in to this whole deal. Like, I think this deal is they are getting TJ Hawkinson for now and later because they hope he's a great fit and they hope they extend him.

Like, that's what this is about. They're not, it shouldn't be factored in at all that you might get a fourth round comp pick a couple of years from now. Like, it's really about right now, go win, fill your biggest need on offense, which is another playmaker. And then how it goes in the future. Like, yeah, it could be around a while. But I, I mean, I agree with everything you said though, that as far as the price tag goes, it is not horrendous. The only thing is a second round pick is the real deal. And a fourth round pick is a total long shot. That's just the history of the draft. You could get starters in the first

starters in the second, and everybody else is just throwing darts and hoping one lands. So you've traded out of a position where you usually get a starter. That's okay. If things work out with TJ Hawkinson, and I think it was the right thing to do in this situation. So there you go. 50 minutes of TJ Hawkinson talk for all of you. It's not bad. It's not bad. Well, we'll carry on.

Vikings in Washington this week. We'll have plenty of content related to that game as well. So we will talk to you all later.