Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How can the Vikings escape the middle?

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

Matthew Coller talks with New Orleans Saints reporter Nick Underhill about whether the Minnesota Vikings and Saints can escape being seen as middling teams. Is there a way out? Why are each of these teams making moves to stay in the hunt rather than rebuilding? Is that the right way to go in a weak NFC? Timeline Week continues... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here as we continue timeline week here on the show to uh talk about teams that are stuck in the middle from the covering the new orleans saints from new orleans dot football the greatest internet website name that exists is uh my buddy nick underhill what is up nick how are you doing all right man thanks for having me you are the purple insider of new orleans, uh, except for more successful. And, uh, you are also on very opposite sides of the debates over whether the cap exists. So I see us on Twitter where I'm going like, Oh yeah, cap Smith folks. And you're being like, stop worrying about the cap folks. Yeah. See, I, I don't know that it's a myth, but I would say my one argument against your argument is that I think some people look at it too rigidly. And I'm not saying that's right or wrong.

I'm just saying that when people are like, well, Teron Armstead has a dead money hit of $13 million. Okay. But the Saints look at it as an overall piece, one thing, and it's not necessarily so segmented out. So, okay, there's $13 millionits. I'll just push another 13 million forward. And if you push the same 13 million forward every single year in perpetuity, you could do that until football ends or there is a pandemic. And you really never actually have to pay the bill for that 13 million if you're committed to keep doing that. So, you know, I, I don't, I think where, where I get in trouble is that, you know, I kind of fight against it hard enough to where people think i'm like in support like i don't think their way of managing

the cap is the best way but it is something they can keep doing but i actually think we're seeing evidence of them taking their foot off the gas now in being like okay it's post breeze this probably isn't a super bowl caliber team it's maybe a playoff caliber team. It doesn't make sense to maybe push all your chips in. And I think they're taking on some of that and trying to clean up the cap a little bit. And I think Sean Payton was maybe one of the driving factors for how aggressive they were with their cap management. I'm going to tell you the truth.

I hope it never changes. I hope that we always have this because it honestly creates two things i mean one is a lot of discussions that we just would not have had before and shout out to the folks at over the cap.com for providing us with all that information um so fans know everybody's dead cap hit and things like that but it adds so many layers to the puzzle of discussion about how they're building a team and what they could possibly do and i think that there's a difference between saying that like the cap is a myth and saying, here's what you have to do with the cap. There is a price to pay. And do you want to pay that price? So for the Vikings right now, if you're looking at them and saying, well, you're

not really a contender for a Superbowl, then you're saying, well, why are you paying the price, though, to extend or restructure a player and kick money down the road? When Drew Brees is there, you do whatever the heck it takes to keep every good football player you possibly can because Drew Brees. That's why you always have a chance to win the Super Bowl. If you don't, and I think that's the point you're making is then you then you can't just push all the chips to the middle of the table and alter the cap like crazy. It really has to depend on where you stand in it.

And that's why we're here talking. Nick is where you stand in your team's timeline for how you handle all that cap stuff. So to your last point, though, even even they still can do it. They're like they just created 30 some million in in space because they thought they were getting to sean watson and they would have been able to do everything and keep it going and it is just uh you know i think i think where and i i saw people in new orleans battling you and i i just kind of sat back and just you know i could have i could have maybe cut off some of that and and tried to help them understand but i

i saw i saw you fighting and i let you fight that fight um but i think i think where where they get fired up is every year there's like somebody and it's legitimate media it's not like you know it's not like people that don't cover the nfl and there's always somebody or multiple somebodies that are like oh well they're gonna have to trade alvin camara and cut mike thomas and get rid of ryan ramchick and it's like they don't have to do any of those things those are all choices that they can make and they never get rid of Ryan Ramchick. And it's like, they don't have to do any of those things. Those are all choices that they can make. And they never get rid of any of those guys. And you know, last year they cleared a hundred million pandemic hit. That's an unexpected event. That's the other thing people always point to. They're like, aha, I told you. And it's like, well, okay. It took, you know, you've been saying the same thing for seven years and it took

a disease that nobody had ever, you know, that literally didn't exist to stop their cap management and kind of make them get to a point where they had to pay the price for it. So I think those are the two things that get overlooked, but I think ultimately we're all saying the same thing. It's just some people are, you know, is it worth it or is it not worth it for me? I just, I just tell people how it can be done and I give them the information and let them, let them go fight you with that information. And, and, you know but but yeah i mean i think it's it's always better to have you know we would all rather have a balanced checkbook you know in our daily lives and i think for football teams it's the same way but sometimes if you have a chance

to go for it and you see that super bowl window you know it's it's who cares spend everything figure it out later which i would you know defend the way the vikings handled this for years when they had an actual chance to win 2018 2019 and those are years you go into thinking we really should be competing to win the nfc and be in the super bowl and it didn't happen but you'll pay that bill later because you had a chance to get there once they got to 2020 you should not be trading for yanni kagakwe cutting riley reef forcing him to come back on a pay cut. That's going to have dead cap down the road. Like these things don't make any sense when you don't have a chance to win. And the thing with the people in new Orleans who started going after me on

Twitter, it was like, where did you people come from? Did I just write salary cap and the new Orleans people? Okay. Like I wasn't even talking to you. So I was being very flippant toward the new Orleans people. because i don't have any reason to care about them sure uh those are your subscribers you could i got my own problems but it was like uh new orleans people i'm not talking to you okay i haven't looked at your salary cap but you know i mean the thing that i kept throwing back was like where's your left tackle is he gone can you not afford him i mean eventually look when you have to when you're still paying Drew Brees $11 million dead cap,

there's no doing nothing with that. And that's the thing that the Vikings are dealing with too. They're paying Anthony Barr to play for them this year. He doesn't play for them anymore. That's a choice you made that is hurting you, is actively hurting you, that you want to avoid if you're trying to do competitive rebuild, which I think both of our teams are doing competitive rebuild yeah so the the thing with arm said though that definitely

wasn't a cap decision and i think he got paid lower than a lot of people thought i mean it's 15 million they do have the cap space to pay him that that was more of a like where is he at in his career and is the risk worth it and they let him go probably a year or two early instead of a year or two late which i think is a responsible decision. And my thing that the people that criticize their cap management, I would say like not overpaying that guy or getting stuck in a bad contract,

that's doing what you want them to do. I don't think that's the thing to throw in their face and be like, ah, here's evidence. Like either they're being responsible or they aren't. And then if you're criticizing them for being irresponsible, you can't criticize them for being responsible. So mean there's both sides to it um marcus williams might have been a little bit of a cap decision i just don't think that they valued him at that level period i mean

they gave him the franchise tag and i think you know they could have tagged them again and brought him back and it would have been under market value i just don't think that they necessarily um felt that he was the guy that was worth the the cost and again they have the cap space but they just didn't spend it they moved to marcus may they got to get another safety now that uh welcome jenkins retired so their back end i mean that's that's a huge hit like we're talking about being stuck in the middle that's the thing i'm i'm probably most concerned about for this team is that the defense was supposed to be the strength overall, and now you're taking out two guys from the safety spot

on a defense that is built on disguise and deception, and you don't have that organization and that knowledge of the scheme from day one. I mean, I think it's going to be rocky to start the season. Marcus May is going to be suspended probably for three games for DWI. You're going to start a process, start to get comfortable, bring in a new guy, and now you're starting over again in week four. It's just that's not where you want to be.

It's supposed to be a defensive team. Head coach is a defensive coach. That's supposed to be the identity. I think all of a sudden now that's a very shaky part of that team so the on the tron armstead thing i actually think it's smart like it's smart not to overpay a veteran player this has been a criticism of mine for the vikings i mean even anthony bar is a good example it was like did anybody think anthony bar was getting them to a super bowl last year that was going to be the difference and yet you hurt long-term to make sure to keep him.

So you could try to make the playoffs. So you could try to avoid getting fired, but you got fired anyway. And it's not like none of it really made sense. And for someone with his injury history, if you were lining up to pay him $20 million a year, you know, and the hometown discount thing is not really real. A lot of times players actually ask for more from their own teams. And then when they find out they're not going to get it, they'll go for less somewhere else.

But I think that that's something that the Vikings have not been smart about is knowing when the writing is on the wall. Like I saw someone tweet out, I think it was from PFF, about the yards per route run for Adam Thielen and how they've just gone down and down and down in recent years. And yet he's on schedule to make $20 million on the cap next year. And yeah, they can do stuff with the money, but that's not a position you've wanted to put yourself in. Also what new Orleans has now, you mentioned your cap space is a quarterback who's cheap. And that is another thing that I

thought maybe the Vikings would go for is to try to bring in a Mariota or a James Winston and move on from cousins to start getting their cap, right? I mean, I think that that's like one antidote to all of this is if you're not paying that guy $30 million or now it's being bumped up to 40, $45 million, then it just gives you a lot more flexibility to be able to do the things you're talking about. Yeah. For where the saints are at. I think it makes a lot of sense to kind of go cheaper quarterback. Granted they tried to go for the guy that just got a quarter billion dollars guaranteed and we're going to flip it on his head and probably overpay Armstead and you know, everybody else at that point to kind of keep it going and that would have

made sense. But yeah, if they're there, I feel like they're trying to just looking at their moves and their passiveness and free agency and not addressing wide receiver and not addressing left tackle and not making a move, you know, a second move at safety and probably looking to the draft or for internal options for all those things. It looks to me like they're trying to manage kind of a rebuild while staying competitive. And we're going to see if that actually works. Their roster is good enough that they'll probably win nine ten games maybe eight they'll be like right in that range like you know as the title stuck in the middle and that variance it doesn't take much it's just a couple plays a couple lucky breaks and you know seven wins becomes ten but they'll

be somewhere in that range and we'll see we'll see how it works but i mean it's kind of tough to burn at both ends of the candle and have things work out the way you want them to either you're going for it or you aren't and it i think it's it's a balancing act that's going to be difficult for them and i don't know if it's ultimately going to be leading to the reward that they want but on the other side of that you keep the team together you have a quarterback who doesn't cost a lot and and then maybe you have an opportunity to acquire somebody. There's a lot of quarterback movement, and they are a quarterback away, I think, from being great in that contender status,

a quarterback and a wide receiver too, maybe a left tackle. If you get the quarterback, everything else is easier. They have a top-five defense. They got Michael Thomas, who presumably will still be a good player after basically missing two years Alvin's getting a little bit older but like I don't know I I see logic in keeping it together but I also would see logic in them to say and tear it down start over and and kind of go for it and usually those type of rebuilds they work out I mean but on the other

hand if you get rid of Ryan Ramchak and you get rid of, you know, Mike Thomas and Alvin Kamara and Marshawn Lattimore, like who are you replacing them with? And it's, it's a hard philosophy, but I think it's really hard to walk down the middle of that line too. So to your point, getting rid of cousins, starting over all that stuff, like there is a lot of logic in that. And if, if you aren't going to be a Superbowl contender, like what's the point of fighting so hard to keep everything together? This is why you're here for timeline week, Nick. This is exactly why. Because of how complicated that question is.

And what it really comes down to is two things. How much value do you put in a playoff appearance when there's no way you're going from the 6th or 7th seed, which is where both the Vikings and the saints are projected to go. Do you put value in that personally? Uh, I don't get the money that would come. Well, you actually, I mean, it's not even a home game, so they don't get money from it anyway, but, uh, you know, so I don't think there's much benefit there. I don't think they fit like Philly last year. I mean, hang a banner. You got in, you got killed,

you went home great season, I guess. So I don't know, like you overachieved expectations for them, but that's not the case for the Saints or the Vikings. So that doesn't mean anything to me. If you get the seven seed and get blasted and go home. And then there's the other part of, can you actually walk this line? And one of the biggest issues is with a ryan ramchick or an elvin kamara or an adam phelan or harrison smith well they are still good right now you're really if you're talking about competitive rebuild you're hoping to be really really good in a couple of years are they going to be really really good in a couple of years kamara and delvin cook are from the same draft class uh running backs folks you're old by 27, 28.

So these guys probably, and Kamara is going to age better than Cook, but they've both been banged up at times. I mean, it's really hard to match up these players who are keeping you competitive now with when you actually need them to be great a couple of years from now when your roster is strong enough to really compete. Here's my two arguments for the Saints keeping it together one the nfc sucks and if you get into the playoffs like you just never know like you could just get on a run and and you just never know i mean there's

there's really not like a juggernaut team outside of the rams and and you know weird things can happen in one game number two if sean payton goes and signs with dallas next year like saints are probably gonna get a pick or two back and now all of a sudden you might have the ammunition one game number two if sean payton goes and signs with dallas next year like the saints are probably going to get a pick or two back and now all of a sudden you might have the ammunition to go get your good rookie quarterback and have a team that that's kind of built to win you plug him in and maybe maybe you get lucky and you get some you know lightning there and off you go so there's a couple reasons for it um it's to, to kind of bag a team that's close, you know, they feel like they're close and it's just like, maybe if this happens,

maybe if that happens and it's hard to give up on those maybes and it's just, uh, man, it's difficult. It's a hard, if you told me to pick one path or the other, it's, you know, it's kind of, and I look at it through the terms of like, are you going to win the super bowl or not? And you know, odds are you don't have the, the, the top 10 quarterback in place. It's probably not going to happen, but then again, you know, maybe, maybe Jameis all of a sudden surprises you. The NFC sucks.

You get into the playoffs and off you go. I'd probably bet on that not happening, but you never know. Folks, Minnesota sports teams are competing for the playoffs, and it's time to load up on your Minnesota sports-inspired gear from SodaStick. Use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER for 15% off your wildflower Marc-Andre Fleury design, or if you're excited for baseball, get your Fast as Buck Byron Buxton shirt or hoodie.

Go to SodaStick..com use the promo code purple insider for 15 off now we play a game on the show is this gaslighting or not which would be if you were if i would if someone was saying to you like well hey look jamis can you know throw for 40 touchdowns and be the superstar they always wanted him to be and this will go right and the nfc will fall apart and tom brady will get old and all those things like you're getting toward gaslighting just tell me that all those things are going to go right well the one thing the saints got going for him is that they are pretty good against tom brady so that's the one thing they actually do have going for him stunningly good against tom brady but at the same time like

last year you're talking yourselves into these same things and Jameis comes out, plays okay. Uh, and then gets hurt. And all of a sudden it just falls apart and you're playing Ian book, uh, in an actual football game. And there was the COVID issue and everything else. Uh, and so, but I think a little bit of the difference here, and you could tell me, cause you know, this team better than I do with the saints, but the Vikings, what I think makes this complicated is justin jefferson he is so young and he is so good that it's really hard to tell justin jefferson hey why don't you just like hang around break some records be amazing for a while we're not gonna win anything but you just do you that's hard to do i think with the saints you have more veteran players that have been around longer.

Not that they're more willing to take a step back, but that when you move on from them, it's not like you can trade Justin Jefferson. It's not like you could just be like, okay, well, give us two firsts or something like that would be insane. So I think that that's what makes it a little more complicated. But from your point of view, thefc south i mean are we impressed like i mean carolina my gosh what are you doing who's even playing quarterback for you uh their gm is saying sam darnold maybe i don't know anybody pj walker i that like so the division

element of it i think for both of these teams kind of plays in because the Bears and the Lions aren't that good either yeah Atlanta is absolutely awful too so I would I would say the argument for the Saints is that they have like a legitimately great defense and they were playing I mean they went five and two with Jameis is the starter last year and Jameis's numbers make it look like he was playing at a certain level but like the tape does not look like the touchdown to interception ratio it was extremely conservative like there might not have been a lot of picks but there are a lot of throws that just weren't attempted and he needs to become way more comfortable he needs to have better players around him I mean it to his defense I mean you're throwing to Kevin White and Kenny Stills and you know Mike Thomas isn't playing and Marquez Calloway is your number one receiver

I mean so I understand some some timidness in that so getting some good players around him seeing if he can still be effective in um i don't want you know i don't think he needs to be totally interception averse but like keep it under 16 you know let's see if he can do that if he can do that the defense plays the way it does i mean they do have a legitimate shot of beating anybody any week in that defense like i said two years in a row like it's not a fluke it's not oh they played this this schedule so the schedule like they were legitimately great if they can replace those safeties you're back in business and i think there is a chance to beat anybody so that that's their reason for holding on and the reasons against with all the ones you said aging roster to Mario Davis is getting old Cam Jordan's getting old uh you know by the time

if you draft a rookie quarterback you know in two three years when he's kind of hitting his stride like where's everybody else going to be at within that process so that would be the argument against and you know it's uh stuck in the middle man yeah with um jamis winston the one thing that he gives you that's an edge over kirk cousins is that at least you could tell me if his contract is different than this but it's that you can move on anytime a lot of the things that you just described i've always thought of trying to get the sliders right you ever play a video game where uh the the difficulty when it's on easy you're just crushing it but then you turn up to hard and you lose every game like can you figure out something

can't get the slider right that's cousins and winston if you tell him to be aggressive winston throws 30 picks you tell him to be conservative he won't make the throws it's like with cousins if you throw 700 times he's gonna fumble a lot and turn the ball over but if you only have him throw 400 times, you don't get the value out of a quarterback. But one of these guys costs $30 million and the other guy doesn't. One of these guys has a no trade clause. The other guy doesn't. And that's where it feels like new Orleans has an edge in being in the middle is that you can draft a quarterback and feel like, okay, you can move on or you can be in position next year because

i didn't think russell wilson was getting traded did you all of a sudden right all of a sudden russell wilson's traded and this can happen every single year in fact now it kind of does yeah no things have definitely changed significantly the league is it's crazy like the understanding of how everything works is is different players are asserting their power i don't know why any player that's like above a certain skill level like if a team's thirsty for you get to no trade clause get your signing bonus play for two years force a trade get another signing bonus and like there's no there's no reason not to play the the the game now because like it's been shown that teams kind of just if a guy doesn't want to play for you and he has a no

trade clause like what are you gonna do like you okay they'll sit out and go get a quarter billion guaranteed in a year despite all this other stuff going on around them off the field it's crazy how much power players are showing they have and and yeah so i think we're going to keep seeing it i think there's going to be quarterback movement and the league's just going to kind of be i don't know it's just it's nuts to see all the trades and all the receivers moving. It's a lot different than it was just even five years ago. I mean, this wasn't happening. So, yeah, if this goes on next year, there's quarterbacks that want out.

Saints put together a decent offense. Their defense looks good. People might want to come here, and that's all they need. They need the quarterback, and I think they're right there in the mix. It makes it even hard to question teams because last year when the Broncos didn't draft Justin Fields, it's like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing, Broncos, you psychos? Draft Justin Fields.

You don't need a corner. And then, like, oh, they have Russell Wilson now. So that, I don't know what to say. Like, the same thing with, like, Indianapolis, where you just, why are you guys getting linebackers and running backs? You't need these people guards what are you doing and then philip river shows up and matt ryan which is hilarious by the way like that just like matt ryan will play for the indianapolis colts and there is something to be said and this is what the vikings have kind of taken themselves out of with the kirk no trade clause or potentially taking themselves out of with the Kirk no trade clause or potentially taking themselves out of is there's

just something to be said for being that team that is like Tampa Bay. That's like, whoops, we have all these great players want to come play for his Tom Brady. And the one thing about that is though, you have to draft over years. You have to kind of meet that timeline. And the worry for the saints would be that if some of these players who are really good and in their primes slip then all of a sudden you win six and you don't look so good it looks so attractive to anybody right and so that's that's that like delicate line to walk that both of these teams are trying to do yeah a little bit i mean i do think they got some players in the pipeline like if cam jordan starts aging out like they still have other good pass rushers and last year's first round pick peyton turner didn't really play much because he got hurt but

if he materializes you might have somebody in the pipeline right there marcus davenport another injury guy but he's showing like the talent to be one of the better pass rushers uh at least in the nfc and if that continues he finds a way to stay healthy i don't think that would be a huge hit the mario davis is the one. If he slips, what do you do from there? Pete Werner, last year's second-round pick, he looks good, but you need somebody else at that position. The guy they drafted in the third round the year before,

Zach Vaughn, looks like a bust at this point. There's a couple things, but I do think some of their core, though, is still fairly young. Marshawn Lattimore is not like an old player. I don't think you're really at that point. He's on his second deal. Ramchak really isn't either. I mean, he just got his second deal.

So a lot of their core is built from that 2017 draft. And Alvin's really the only one at a position where there's kind of that expiration date, and they need to start thinking about that. But I think they still got a good two-, three-year window with kind of the expiration date and they need to start thinking about that but i think they still got a good two three year window with kind of the players they have the mario davis is he isn't i think it'll probably be a point where he just gets old suddenly but like it hasn't happened yet but i do think they got a good two three year window if they put the right pieces together this year they have to they have to get a young wide receiver somewhere it's it's imperative like if they don't like it's straight-up malpractice

with how they've managed this roster because you can't go into a season with Kenny Stills, Kevin White. Man, Chris Hogan retired from a lacrosse league to come play for the Saints, and he catches a touchdown pass. You can't build your team like that. If you're going to hold on, you at least have to support your $14 million quarterback and, and try to do things that not make him look like a $14 million quarterback.

And then hopefully you get your Tom Brady or your Russell Wilson or, or whatever. Um, so when I was in Buffalo, Chris Hogan played there. Um, and every broadcast was, he played lacrosse in college.

Stop. Stop. Yeah. And Ryan Fitzpatrick wore his wedding ring during games and went to Harvard and went to Harvard. Every single game, those things came up. So are you for New Orleans dot football dot football football scouting quarterbacks? Like what do you think of the possibility that they pick a QB? A little bit. I mean, I think Kenny Pickett's a possibility. I think if there was an ad coaching change, that possibility,

I would probably say it a little bit stronger, you know, just kind of based on some of the things I heard about his feelings on Pickett. I think Sam Howell could be an option and maybe the second round. So I think that they're definitely looking at people. I don't think they're married to anybody right now. You know, they like Jameis' possibilities, but obviously they just showed you that they're willing to look at other people and try to go other options.

So either one of those, the thing that I think they've done to themselves, though, is they've backed themselves into a corner where they have to get a safety, they have to get a wide receiver. They kind of sort of have to get a left tackle, but i think they'd go with james hurst but the first two you're going in the draft you got two wide open holes something has to happen you have to find starter caliber players so now if kenny pickett is there at 18 you're in this situation where do you take the quarterback that you you like or you

feel like you have to plug one of these holes i mean hopefully they'd take the better player like whether that's the wide receiver or the quarterback, and they aren't backed into a situation. But it's hard to look at it like that when you do have to do that. And they did it a couple of years ago on the offensive line. They cut Larry Warford, felt like they had to get a guard. They drafted Cesar Ruiz, and he hasn't been a good player to this point. So that's how you make mistakes.

And I feel like they've kind of backed themselves into a spot where if they don't do something, I don't know if you build the team that you want to build to the best of your ability. You ever wonder if we're the same person just in a different reality? It could be, yeah. You're the northern version, I'm the southern version. You got brown hair, I got blonde hair. Different people in the same reality?

I don't know this like when you're talking about uh having to draft for need and not being able to you know take a draft pick on a corner because you've said you're going to or i'm sorry quarterback because you've said you're going to win and and so you have to fill this needs like have i heard this before oh yeah every day like that that's where we're at that that's why i had the freudian slip of saying corner because that's like what we're at. That's why I had the Freudian slip of saying corner, because that's what we're talking about here is, well, the Vikings desperately need a corner,

so they can't draft Desmond Ritter or whoever the heck they think is the best quarterback in the draft, and that's just what makes it so tough for them is that every year under Rick Spielman, and now it's just been a lot of the same moves, they would just draft for whatever they needed right away. There is a video of Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman. And now it's just been a lot of the same moves. They would just draft for whatever they needed right away. There is a video of Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman when they draft Justin Jefferson right after they pick him. And of course they needed a receiver because they traded digs right after they pick him. Mike Zimmer says we're still going to get a corner, right? Because they were desperate for corners. Like this is just not a good idea. They drafted

a corner when they needed one in 2018, didn't pick Lamar Jackson. I'm not saying that like everyone would have done that or whatever, but if you're not thinking for need at all, and you're thinking only long-term, you just act differently than you do. If there's desperation to make the playoffs. Do any teams really do that? Besides like maybe the Packers,

like there's just not a lot of teams that I see make picks and it's like, wow, this does not help them at all. But you know, it's, it's probably the best pick. Like everybody says they do BPA, but I don't think anybody does BPA. Everybody does BPA to position a need except for maybe a couple of teams. And it's the Saints are always odd BPA. And it's like, no, you aren't like, it's you, you literally just drafted a center to play guard despite other players being on the board like you haven't drafted a wide receiver in years and this

is what you do uh i don't really i don't really think a lot of teams actually operate like that but it's it's horrible when you aren't at least putting like some spackling over your your holes going into the draft like go sign aj green or something for a couple millions so just in case if you have to roll into the season like this, so you can draft Kenny picket and you don't feel like you're, you're blowing a season by not doing something. If your team drafts players on the offensive line and moves them from their positions,

then we are the same person. Oh yeah. That's what they do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was like Ezra Cleveland. Like it's this big mystery of why did you draft Ezra Cleveland in the second round and never even try him at tackle?

They had a game that was a meaningless game week 17, two years ago. Cleveland is a rookie and they could have just put him at left tackle just to see what he looked like. And they played just a lifetime backup at left tackle. Why? And then drafted a left tackle the next year. You guys are so sure that he's just gonna fall over and die if you put him at left tackle like i you know i don't know like these things are unexplainable to me yeah the saints got a left tackle playing left guard a right tackle that was a left tackle in college a right guard that was a center so yeah it's uh three of them is this why when the vikings and Saints play, it's always just a crazy one-score game, something wild at the end?

I think this has to be it, right? When they play, because they're the same team. Except for the Vikings, of course, never had Drew Brees. And the ring issue. Okay, two more quick things. One, if I gave you $1,000 of my money and I said, here it is, um, if I gave you a thousand dollars of my money and I said, here it is, this is a present to you for being a wonderful guest. Uh, this is a total alternate

reality by the way, for being a wonderful guest. Now you have to gamble that money on either the Vikings or the saints to have a better record this year. That's what you have to use it for, for me to give you this thousand dollars. Who are you gambling it on? I don't want to make the homer pick but i i just kind of i believe in the saints defense and i gotta i gotta bet on the one thing i i believe in i i believe in mike thomas coming back and being a good player too um i think that kind of hurts is i think alvin camara is probably gonna miss four to six games which could start out bad marcus may is gonna miss the first three no sean payton it's that's a thing okay and i'm gonna regret i'm gonna regret saying this i'm gonna regret saying this because i think sean payton's probably the difference between a winner two every year at

least but last year's offense was so horrific that i do not think they can possibly be any worse on that side of the ball like there's no way for them to to even like just getting like mike thomas back and a competent wide receiver too at some level like they're gonna be a much better team on that side i'm gonna put it on the saints but i feel like it'll probably this is gonna end up being a push i bet i bet they probably end up being the same team tiebreakers is what we'll be talking about we'll be going in the finals uh week of the season and i'll have yon again and we'll talk about tiebreakers. There we go. All right. Last thing is when I have someone else who covers another team on the show,

like to do a little trivia. So what I want to ask you, because new Orleans beyond drew breeze has a hilariously bad quarterback history. And it's, it's very Vikings like aside from drew breeze. So I want you to tell me aside from drew breeze and archie manning who the next five leading passers in saints history are oh my god bobby abar is he in there

bobby abar yes he is he is fourth aaron brooks has got to be in there aaron brooks is third yep threw for 19 000 yards 120 touchdowns. Aaron Brooks. Man, Aaron Brooks was cool when he came on. Like when he first showed up on the scene, he's got a big arm, kind of ran around. He's fun. I have no idea who's number three. Yeah.

So is it like a Bobby, Billy, Joe or Bobby Joe? Like they've had like a. They did have Billy Joe Tolliveriver he is the 10th all time in history so i'll give you some hints here uh this guy famously had an interaction with jim rome oh man oh uh chris everett no well that's the tennis player and that's what jim rome called him very sexist fashion oh man uh but uh jim everett jim everett yeah jim everett yeah yeah all right whose time in new orleans was a disaster by the way he had like all third all time he well he's i mean behind manning uh or i'm yeah manning and breeze so he's

he's fifth all time but of the five beyond them now um there's a couple of guys that take you way back that i'll just tell you, and you can try to guess some of the other ones, uh, Billy Kilmer from the late sixties and seventies went 11 and 28 as a starter, Dave Wilson. And then you have, I'll just tell you these cause this would have been difficult. Steve Walsh went 10 and nine as a starter from 90 to 93 and Ken Stabler, a 500 quarterback quarterback and then you have your billy joe tolliver and we have a former viking in here as well at 13th the great wade wilson their quarterback history is yeah i'm not even i'm not even embarrassed that i couldn't name half the

people on there like it's just yeah no i don't care well that's what what makes it so funny their history started basically in 2006. And then there's like, there's the Archie. And then it's just, yeah, Sean Payton came and they became a team. This is the point I always make about tanking and stuff, right? People hate to talk about tanking. Oh, I could never lose on purpose, right? And not that New Orleans tanked for Drew Brees, but New Orleans was a joke, right? For the most part, you had Dome Patrol, then Joke, and then Drew Brees.

And they get Drew Brees, and then they're a premier franchise for a decade. It's just, this is what happens if you get that guy. And that's how much it can change. Otherwise, you're bringing in Jim Everett and Billy Kilmer and Steve Walsh and Ken Stabler and Jameis Winston and hoping to barely make the playoffs. I mean, look, it's why you just have to, well, not have to lead, but, you know, four teams willing to go after Deshaun Watson, despite everything happening around him. And two of those franchises were willing to set themselves on fire with their quarterback.

One lost their guy. The other one happened to get Deshaun. But I mean, teams were willing to risk everything in in PR and you know just okay screw you Baker Mayfield like it doesn't matter like okay Matt Ryan whatever you're the best player in franchise history we don't care at all what you think get out of here uh regardless if we get them or not I mean that's why I mean that guy can change everything and you know hopefully you feel good about cheering for him. And it's not, you know, this other back, but people will, you know, justify whatever they have to justify to, uh, to win football games, man.

I mean, it's just, that's how important the quarterback is. Yep. And, uh, well, the teams we cover have, uh, tenuous situations in that spot because neither one of those guys is Drew Brees. So Nick Underhill NewOrleans.Football is the website and Nick underscore Underhill underscore Underhill. Yeah, that's right on Twitter.

You're a great follow, especially when you're debating whether the cap is a myth with fans. So tie it all together but great to get together with you on timeline week and you know I don't think we solved you know i don't think we solved it i don't think we figured no no no i don't think we did i think i feel worse about uh everything after this conversation well and also all the fans were like if you are so smart you'd

be the gm and i'm like oh maybe you're right yeah i guess so if if i had the answer to this then they would definitely pay me sure yeah i mean that's usually why you get paid yeah i don't so anyway well great stuff man great to get together with you and uh you're killing it with new orleans dot football keep up the great work and uh we'll talk soon yeah thanks