Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How did JJ McCarthy look at minicamp (and Darrisaw is back!)

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press to discuss Vikings minicamp practice and the latest look at how JJ McCarthy looked. Plus, reaction to Christian Darrisaw's return.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here along with Dane Mizzetani, the Pioneer Press. We are inside TCL Performance Center following the Vikings first mini camp practice, and we are going to have a hardcore breakdown of what JJ McCarthy looked like. But there is actually a more pressing breaking news matter that we need to discuss Dane, and that is that Christian Derrisaw was here and with a giant brace on his leg, was doing individual drills. Now, he didn't participate in the seven on sevens or the slow motion 11 on 11s, but the fact that he was going through every individual drill today is an enormous sign for this team because going into mini camp I had no expectation of seeing 71.

In fact, we walk out on the field like wait a minute. There's a pretty darn giant human being out there that I don't recognize from the last OTAs and that was Christian Derrissa. and I thought that considering what he went through with the ACL tear in week 8 against Los Angeles Rams doing individual drills. He looked really nimble and looked like he was getting back to where they need him to be. And so this I don't want to put carts before horses or jump to too many conclusions just because he's back here doing individual drills. But Dane, this would seem to be an enormous development for the Minnesota Vikings. This is one of the best players in the entire National Football League and we weren't sure is he gonna be back week

one, week three, week five, but this would appear to be tracking toward having a full participation in training camp and being ready for the season. For sure and I think it is important to kind of pump the brakes and look he was out here today we don't know what that means moving forward we don't know what that means for training camp we don't know what that means for week one but we've been around this team long enough and it does the way they handle injuries it does tend to start with slow acclimation back onto the field. Hence what we saw today, participation in individual drills, warmups into working with your position group and then pulling back and not working with the team.

So what we've seen in the past with how they've handled injuries, especially how they've handled injuries in the summer portion of their program is that this is a good step in the right direction. Now, it's something that we can look at at baseline and say, this is where he was on June 10th. And when training camp rolls around,

what does it look like? How different is it from what we saw on the first day of mini camp? It gives us a baseline earlier than I think we were going to have one. I was assuming we weren't gonna see him until training camp day one because another guy on the offensive line who they signed this year Will Fries, he's still not out there. So I thought if Will Fries is not going to be here this spring then certainly Christian Derrissau is not gonna be

around this spring. Obviously we find out today that's not true. Christian Derisaw is back out there. I think you're right. He looks nimble. He was participating at least in my opinion, from watching on the hill that we watched from pretty full in these individual drills. I think sometimes you see guys come back and it's like, Oh, they're just a mascot. They're standing there with their teammates and cheering them on. No, he was helmet on working in these individual drills. I think with a

goal of probably progressing to something more, probably in a month, a month and a half or so. So it's something to keep an eye on, but certainly a good step in the right direction. These guys are also so, so careful and cautious with injuries. They would not put him back out there if they didn't feel comfortable about where he was at in the recovery process. One thing to note, the braces is big of braces I've ever seen. I think if you were to just measure the circumference of Christian Derisas leg with the brace on, it probably is the circumference of Christian Derrissau's leg with the brace on, it probably is the circumference of my entire body.

So it's a huge brace. They're playing it very careful and close right now. But seeing him out there was a surprise to me. I think it was probably a surprise to everybody standing out there on the field. And just judging from what we've seen in the past with someone like TJ Hockinson, he was not doing individual drills with this team. And I know they got injured at different times. Hockinson was really at the end of the 2023 season and Darisol was midway

through. So there's enough time for him to be getting on with his recovery, but we didn't see last year anything from Hockinson at this time of year. And we were deep into training camp before he was doing anything like this. And I don't even recall him doing team individuals at this point. It was more on the side that he was working and he wasn't involved in any of the team stuff.

So this means, I think pretty clearly that the recovery is going very well. And that also matches up with what we were told from Kevin O'Connell, who had said that everything he had heard was very positive and he was on schedule to, I guess, come back on their timeline. Like he had never said that,

oh, we're gonna put a timeline on it, but just as far as what they expected from him. So to be back at this point, I think that all signs become go for the expectation being week one. And again, you don't want to jump too far out because there are setbacks and stuff like that in recoveries. But when someone's back in mini camp and that means they can start training camp,

at least doing individual drills in camp and maybe some of the walkthrough stuff and everything else actually be out there, then he could potentially start on week one and be ready to go, which again would be absolutely enormous. And if you're JJ McCarthy, look, I mean, I liked the acquisition of Justin school as a guy who can be a backup left tackle and be thrown in there the way that we saw, you know, Rashad Hill or something in the past. But when you look at the teams that they're playing, you know, maybe you're facing Montes sweat kind of lines up on the other side sometimes but Atlanta they're going to have to prove that they matter but you start getting beyond that and you get assuming Trey Hendrickson comes back to the Cincinnati Bengals and I you know,

you start to ramp up the season and get some pretty impressive talent that you want Christian Derriss off fully ready to go and for JJ McCarthy's purposes this impacts him enormously because you're talking about a top five left tackle versus a backup and there's just not very many backups who can hold up over multiple weeks. So they need Christian Darasaw back for the start of the JJ McCarthy era. I can't imagine how much better that would feel as a quarterback going under center and looking at the offensive line.

And we'll keep an eye on this. We'll fries thing that he's not back yet so far but if the line is healthy and then you have Daris on O'Neill maybe the best tackle combination in the league a first round rookie at left guard who's been doing all the work with the first team and I think that's a really good sign for him here in minicamp that Donovan Jackson is exclusively with the first team that means in the meeting rooms, he's getting it. And when he's out there doing walkthroughs and stuff like that and technique drills, that means he's starting to get it because otherwise we've seen in the past where young offensive lineman do not take the first team reps at this time

of year. And then Ryan Kelly, clearly with all the experience he has fries. And you're talking about an offensive line that could argue for being top five in the league right from the very beginning of the season. So this is very big. Let's talk about JJ McCarthy's day. I wondered if just the circumstances this year we would see a little bit more intensity ramp up with mini camp And in past years, especially in the Zimmer era, it was definitely the case. In the Zimmer era, they were running a lot of 11 on 11s. It was getting pretty serious out there in these minicamp practices.

And we had a lot of big takeaways really across the roster. In this case, the intensity was very similar to OTAs. Most of the practice was basically a walkthrough today, and there were, I would say, 10 to 15 passes that were thrown by JJ McCarthy today. So massive takeaways are going to be a little bit tricky here, but there are, just like last week, a few throws that stood out to us

that we would like to break down for you from JJ McCarthy today. And we'll start with the bad one, which was an interception. There was one last week to Isaiah Rogers. This one was to Byron Murphy Jr. And I've started to take notice of something, Dane, that the interceptions that we've seen JJ McCarthy throw have exclusively been to the outsides of the field. Last week, it was to his left side.

This was to his right side. And they've all, including the preseasonseason game kind of had the same theme which is maybe showing a little too much of your cards maybe being a little bit late and having a corner just undercut the wide receiver and intercept JJ McCartney's passes in the middle of the field I feel like he's been fantastic like the ball's coming out with a lot of fire behind it. It's accurate. It's on time. He's completing a ton of passes over the middle of the field, but a couple of these to the outside. And this is where I think the detail has to come into it of this

where your footwork has to be right. Your pace has to be right and also your anticipation and chemistry with your wide receivers has to be on point. And these are the types of interceptions. We're not trying to spin this in some sort of way, but he has to learn from these. It's better to make them now than it would have been to make them in the games. But once again, we see that same kind of interception being thrown by J.J. McCarthy in practice. Yeah. And I think when you kind of zoom out and look at how the practice is set up as a whole,

you're right, not intense, not a lot of reps at full speed that we can really dive into. So yeah, their interception is going to kind of rise to the top of that list of throws when there is, like you said, 10 to 15, probably at full speed during seven on seven. I would assume it's the same with JJ McCarthy when he goes back and watches this film back. He talked about his process two weeks ago when we talked to him. He'll go back, he'll get some

treatment, he'll watch it kind of just one time full through and then he will really dive into the tape later in this evening and probably into the rest of the week. I'm sure that interception is going to stand out more than any other throw he threw, because there just aren't a lot of things to latch onto. But I think when you look at the interception today, yeah, I think you're right when you say it has a lot of the same thematic principles as the other interceptions. Again, small sample size, but that have risen to the top of our kind of mind here this spring. The one today, we'll try to break it down. He drops back to pass and he looks,

scans the field, looks to his right and just looks to his right stares at his right I'm not sure if he saw Byron Murphy jr. I'm not sure he thought he could fit it in But Byron Murphy jr. Reads it perfectly and the guy who had Something like six seven eight interceptions last year, you know, he's gonna ballhawk and get that one He does he undercuts it. He takes it back the defense goes crazy Again not a good rep, but one that I think is necessary at this time of the year. Like you said, not trying to spin this in a super positive way. Wow, you know, great intercept, like no, but I do think these are

the things you need to learn in June. So you're not throwing that ball on September 7th. And then the season opener against the Bears on Monday night. These are the things and this is why practice is important. And this is also why when you open up a practice and now I'm trying to zoom forward to training camp, if he throws interception like this in training camp, and it's open to the fans, people are going to really latch on to these, but it's practice. And then that's another thing that I just keep kind of going back to.

These are things that you have to learn and you're better to learn them in practice. It doesn't mean if you learn them in practice you're not going to make that same mistake during the game. You would hope that when he gets there and when bullets are live here in the regular season that maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't trust his arm too much. Maybe he doesn't hold on to that ball for a click too long. Those are things that remain to be seen. But when you kind of take away from this practice and see that again, well, let's just keep an eye on it moving forward. These outside to the sideline routes, are they gonna become something that plagues him

into the rest of mini camp, into training camp, into the pre-season? I don't know. And it's certainly something to keep an eye on. Now. Guys, if you watch the show all the time, you know that I'm a hat guy, but if you're wearing hats to cover up for your hair loss, then I've got something that can help you.

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a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See the website for full details and important safety information. Well, I think that's the reason that we come out here to watch is to see how these things progress and the early issues do they get resolved like last year for example, JJ McCarthy was really struggling with his accuracy at this time of year, and then we saw that progress and improve and I think from an accuracy perspective the three practices we've seen so far. I think it's been really, really good that throws over the middle, especially have been on point that he has got great velocity behind the ball. And we'll talk about another throw down field that was very impressive today. But I think that his timing in the middle of the field with crossing routes has been very good.

And he's been able to anticipate when guys are breaking open. But I also think that there are times where he still needs to see it first rather than just throwing it. And this is one of the hardest things to do as a quarterback. And Sam Darnold was incredible at this last year, which was if you freeze the tape when his arm starts to come back and you look and you go, I don't know where that receiver is even going.

And then the ball is to a spot and the receiver comes into the ball as it's coming. And it times up perfectly. Well, that has to begin here. And I think in the middle of the field, that's been very good and the throws have really been on point. He has not been flying balls over guys' heads. He has not been throwing them in the dirt and that was happening a lot last year. So you can see all the work that he's put in as an actual thrower of the

football. And I had pretty serious concerns. I remember a conversation we had last year, like, how much can you correct accuracy as a young quarterback? That was our main discussion for us at a mini camp last year. And I just look at it now and go, why, I think he's just going to be accurate in throwing the football because we've seen it enough times now going back to training camp in the preseason game. But the one thing that came up in the preseason game, if there was any negative was

the timing on some of these throws, some of the outside stuff. And that's all just part of the learning progress process that we've just got to see make progress throughout the rest of the summer. But I think when it comes to training camp, though, I feel very differently than I do now about interceptions. Right now, we're talking about seven on sevens here. It's so different than real plays.

And you're just trying to kind of find where to go with the football and run that rep in some caliber of full speed. When they're doing training camp, 11 on 11s are the real deal. That's real football. Kevin O'Connell thinks that 11 on 11s in practice are so important that they have other teams come in and totally forgo preseason

games for the most part and run these 11 on 11s. So that's where we're really going to judge. And I also think that in years past, I've gotten a great feel for how the quarterback is getting the offense down. Even the first year in 28, uh, no, not 20. Well, 2018 definitely this was the case, but 2022 where Kirk was struggling at times with the offense and it took him a long time to get locked into it throughout the middle of that season. And we did see that in training camp. So that's where we're going to, on a day-to-day basis, be a lot more like,

Oh, okay. You can't throw that ball. You can't make that mistake. It's not going well here, there, the other place. Right now, I'm a lot more on the lines of having leeway. Yeah, and I think that's why when we flipped the switch from OTAs to mandatory minicamp, we were hoping that 11 on 11s would be a little bit more full speed. And maybe they haven't been in the past with Kevin O'Connell so we shouldn't have expected that but I thought with JJ McCarthy you would

maybe want to see what it looks like now at the end of your spring program at 11 on 11 instead like we mentioned at the beginning it was very much 40 50 60 percent kind of walk through pace It was very much 40, 50, 60% kind of walk through pace. And I think that's probably also hard to switch your mind to, yeah, we're going full go at seven on seven and then we're dialing it back and we're going through all our progressions when we go to 11 on 11, I think we were wanting to see that at full speed so we could get more of a sense of the growth. And I think we're just not going to see that until training camp.

A throw I did want to bring up, it actually immediately followed the interception, was, so he throws the interception to, to Byron Murphy Jr. The defense goes crazy. And that was on a throw, out to the right sideline. The very next play, he gets back under center, I guess under center

in seven on seven, and he laces one to Jalen Naylor over the middle. And then that speaks to kind of what you said. Outside to breaking routes towards the sideline, little bit of a struggle in breaking routes, looks fantastic. I also thought the ability to just rinse a play that you made a pretty big significant mistake and immediately come back and throw one right over the middle. It is emblematic of kind of who he is and who he's claiming to be is that he doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low.

You're kind of seeing that play out on the field in real time. I think it was similar last week. He throws an interception, the next couple of routes and reps are pretty clean. So he doesn't seem to be a guy who spirals out of control. We've seen that in the past where certain quarterbacks would throw an interception and the practice might as well be over because they were going to go into this deep, dark hole and really kind of dwell in their mistake. If I've learned anything about McCarthy so far in these limited reps, it's that he is

capable of at least moving on from a mistake, what it seems to me to be rather quickly. Yeah, no, I think we've seen that in multiple different ways. We saw in training camp last year, we definitely saw in the preseason game where he throws a pick on his first drive and then comes right back and has a really good game. So he doesn't seem to get rattled within these practices. And I think the practices move with good pace with JJ McCarthy, which just small things where he's got the huddle and he breaks

the huddle and he comes out and he's setting his teammates. You're supposed to be here. You're going in motion, that sort of thing where you're starting to see it come together, the command of the offense. So I think the biggest thing for me, just in judging OTAs in mini camp is how does he look physically? Number one is more important than anything. How is he throwing the football? Because timing and stuff just takes so much work. That's why they have long training camps. That's why they have all this learning phase and everything else,

because the timing in football is very difficult to get down when you are moving at 20 miles an hour with wide receivers, with beasts coming at you, trying to kill you and rip your head off and everything. So that takes a lot of time. I'm really more forgiving about stuff like that. And if anything, out routes probably take the most anticipation and vision on the cornerbacks and stuff that he's

continuing to learn. But physically, I would say he looks as as good as I could have imagined him looking for how he's throwing the football how his footwork looks. Does he look explosive going back into his drops and accelerating with his bottom half into his throws like it doesn't look like it's just all arm and the balls fluttering or something like that because you wonder with the knee injury is it back is he confident in it is he driving off the back leg and the throwing of the football to me has been really the biggest takeaway that it's been excellent

and the top throw of today toward the end of seven on sevens was just a straight go route from Jordan Addison, just run as fast as you can down the sideline. And Harrison Smith was coming over and maybe they lost them a little bit defensively. It didn't, he didn't have a corner one-on-one with him, but it was just Harrison Smith trying to come over and cover him and Jordan Addison at full speed is going to run by Harrison Smith and JJ let it rip. I mean drive into the back foot into the ground and just fire that thing and I noticed that it wasn't just hard and fast down the field but it also had a nice trajectory that dropped in over Harrison Smith's head right into the hands of Jordan Addison.

So we're talking about 45 yards down the field, something like that, that would have been a long deep touchdown and every deep pass we've seen from him has been accurate. We have not seen him fluttering deep balls. And then that's my point about the work ethic that he's put in to become a better thrower in such a short period of time. I was thinking like maybe you know year two it's spotty, year three it starts to come together, but this is something you can very clearly see in practice is just where is that ball hitting guys and it's not that way with Sam Howell, it's not that way with Brett Rippon, it's not that way with I mean I thought Max Brosmer looked good again, but it's not that it's not the same

It's like oh No one would question who the first round draft pick is by the way this guy throws the football So that level of improvement and that's why sometimes I'll still see people out there Talking about JJ McCarthy and what he did at Michigan I like this is not the Michigan JJ McCarthy that you're seeing You are seeing him start to put on some man strength and the technique throwing the football is clearly improving under Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown.

And from last year working with Grant Udinski, who now is the offensive coordinator of the Jaguars. Like that progress of learning how to really throw a football, I think shows so much right now. And that to me is, are you, you're answering the question here at Minicamp, are you on track for where you thought you should be if you're starting McCarthy with this team

that's trying to chase a Super Bowl? And I can't tell you all the details of how he's reading every play, because that's only what O'Connell and Josh McCown know. Now they don't look panicked to me when they're out there. They don't look like they're looking at each other and getting in his face and getting frustrated. And that doesn doesn't look I don't see any body language like that. There's just going to be some of these sort of growing pain types moments, but I think just another smooth practice today overall.

They just didn't do a ton and I also think too. This is a Kevin O'Connell cheat code in the NFL, which is you're going to have Justin Jefferson out here, all these highly paid players, veterans. You're just not going to run them at full speed because you don't want anybody to turn an ankle. You don't want anybody to get hurt. So that makes it a little bit more challenging. So any last things about JJ McCarthy, because we do have some other things we we noticed we talked to Brian Flores and there was a contract

Extension but not the one we expected today. So Last word on McCarthy the only other throw that stood out to me and maybe this is a good segue to the contract extension that got doled out was It was a seam route and again kind of like Addison's route, which was just straight down the sideline route and again kind of like Addison's route which was just straight down the sideline Josh Oliver seam route right down the middle of the field and there was some zip on that ball from JJ McCarthy to fit it into a window with Theo Jackson kind of closing in over the top ball just gets in right behind Theo Jackson right on Josh Oliver's hands and yeah I think it it shows the growth

that we've seen and the growth that we noticed when I think back now two weeks ago, when it was the first time we saw him throw, like really throw in the confines of a practice. And we were like, oh yeah, it looks the same. It still looks like that. And I think that's probably the biggest takeaway of the spring for me. We're still gonna have two more mandatory mini camp days,

maybe another OTA next week. I wouldn't be surprised if they just bag that after having the next two days of mandatory minicamp. We'll see. But the big takeaway for me for JJ McCarthy is what you said. This looks good. The operation looks good. The arm looks good. Yeah, you give us two hours out there on a practice field and he makes a mistake, we're gonna talk about it. But it is not what we've seen sometimes in the past with quarterbacks where it's like, they can't even run a practice.

The whole thing functions the way it should with a starting quarterback in the NFL. And I think that is something that matters. Like that is a massive positive, is that they can run these practices, they can move forward in a way that everybody is getting the reps they need to, because JJ McCarthy is on point.

The ball is coming out, sometimes the timing is off, but not to the point where the reps are, you know, not where they need to be. And I think right now, when we walk away from the spring, heading into the spring, heading into the summer, yeah, we're gonna see more growth probably in the next month and a half,

but he's where you want him to be if you're the Vikings. I would agree. Okay, let's get into the contract extension then what we heard from Brian Flores today. The Vikings gave a three-year contract extension to Josh Oliver, their number two tight end. And I am an unapologetic Josh Oliver appreciator. Here's why. I think he is the best run blocking tight end in the entire NFL. And when you had three offensive linemen that struggled

for run blocking, maybe didn't even the tides. But when you have now a good offensive line with run blocking, he can be a legitimate weapon. I also think that he's a good enough tight end to be a tight end one in the NFL and you basically have two of those guys except for they have very different skill sets. He can catch the football. I know that we've seen this enough to know that that's true. But even when you see it in practice more when he gets more

balls, it's like this guy can really catch the football and can be a legitimate offensive weapon. He could be a red zone weapon. He's underneath. He could break some tackles and he made some serious plays last year when TJ Hockinson was out the biggest thing for Josh Oliver, though, how many tight end twos in the league are actually playable are actually effective. I would guess five or less. 12 personnel is something they're going to want to do. They're going to want to run the football and run play action off of it with JJ McCarthy. I go back now. I just

said throw out what he did in Michigan, but I go back to a stat when he was throwing with play action. I think he had something like 130 quarterback rating in Michigan. He played under center with Jim Harbaugh. They ran a lot of big personnel there. They ran a lot of play action stuff. He's very, very comfortable in that and you even see when he's doing the footwork of the play action and then the timing of the routes kind of comes together for you to

be able to build play actions off of 12 personnel and just have that dynamic element that not very many other teams actually have. So when you're preparing for the Minnesota Vikings, if you're a defense, you can't just take and copy and paste the last week's game plan onto the Vikings because they're very likely to have different personnel than you've seen before from other teams. And that guy is not a negative when he's out there.

He's not just, oh, well, he's kind of a decoy or something. You can really play him in a lot of different spots. You can move him into the backfield at a fullback position. You can have him in a slot spot and then motion in or whatever you want to do with him. He is a dynamic player who can really help them. It's not the biggest superstar. It's not someone you're drafting on your fantasy team,

but for actually winning football games over the next couple of years, I think they've been really impressed and I have never heard a negative word about Josh Oliver. I think this team absolutely loves this guy. Him and Hawkinson have great chemistry together. So I think it's a, it's a really good signing. I'm sure some people will look at it and go, that's kind of a lot of money for a tight end too, but he's going to play a lot of snaps for this team. And he's a good guy to continue to keep around.

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sweet and sour meatballs, the honey glaze pork chop, and the tender chipotle sirloin. Those are just my choices though. There are dozens and dozens of options and I figured it all out in about five clicks. So for a limited time tempo is offering my listeners 60% off your first box go to tempo meals dot com slash purple insider. That is tempo meals dot com slash purple insider for 60% off your first box tempo meals dot com slash purple insider rules and restrictions apply. Solid take and absolutely right, because I think a lot of people are going to see the number three years, let's say 23 ish million. So you can average out a little north of $7 million a year, close to $8 million a year, just in terms of average annual value. People are gonna look at that and say, I don't know who Josh Oliver is.

How can this guy make that much money? It's because he's really important to the way this offense functions and the way they want it to function. Play style is a term that Kevin O'Connell used ad nauseam last year. It became almost a punchline every time he would stand at the podium and say play style because he would use that term so much. They want to be a team that can establish the line of scrimmage, that can own the line

of scrimmage because they know that's the way you win in December, in January, when you're really, you know, deep into these seasons and you're trying to exert your dominance on the other team, it starts up front. We saw it in the playoff game against the Rams. It started up front. They lost the game in the trenches. The play style did not work there. A big part of the way they want this team to run is Josh Oliver, is his physicality, is the way he plays the game, the style with which he plays the game. So it might not be the sexiest name on the surface to fans who are looking at the Justin Jeffersons, the Jordan Addisons, the TJ Hawkinsons, but Josh Oliver, extremely important to the offense. Now I'm not surprised that they extended him. The number, I don't care. Like you can, Rob Brzezinski is a genius.

It's probably, I don't know what we haven't seen what the cap hit's going to be. It's probably not going to be that much money and more than he was making last year. They might even save money on the books when you extend the guy. So the money doesn't matter to me. What I look at too is, and I don't have the staff counts in front of me, but a lot of times last year, and I know TJ Hawkinson was coming off of a knee injury, but you would look at it like TJ Hawkinson would get 60% of the snaps. Josh Oliver would get 40% of the snaps.

This is not a tight end too. It's a guy you can play in almost every situation coming out onto the field. Um, and I look at a guy from last year, like Trent Surefield, deep cut. Trent Surefield, when he was on the field, you knew they were running the ball because they weren't throwing the ball, the Trent Surefield.

You might assume that about Josh Oliver, oh, they're just going to run the ball. And then he could run a seam route like he did at practice today and gas you for 30 yards. So a versatile player, not someone you're going to want to draft in fantasy, but they're about winning football games. This is a guy that can help them do it. I have no problem with the signing, no problem with the money. I think he's a really important piece that they understand is a very important piece.

All right. Let's talk about the signing that has not yet happened that we all know is forthcoming, but I think could offer some challenges to them, and that is Josh Metellus. And by the time you watch this, they might already have something done with Josh Metellus, but he very notably has not taken part in the full speed portions of OTA's and now mini camp. And when I saw Adam Schefter pop up with the Vikings sign on my phone, I was like, it's Josh. Oh, not Mattelis. Okay. This is, I think, a very difficult evaluation for the Minnesota Vikings because if you look at what Cam Bynum got and if Mattelis defines himself as a safety and is playing as many snaps and is in a more versatile role than Cam Bynum, I mean, you probably look at that and go that's 15 mil a year.

It's got to be a little bit north of that. Now, I've brought up Trayvon Mori get about 17 million. But if you're the Vikings, sometimes these things are also evaluated through the lens of a franchise tag. I don't know offhand what the franchise tag would be next year. I don't even know if I could figure that out right now approximately what it would be for safeties, but it is one of the lower paid positions on the field. The fact that he plays nickel, the fact that he plays linebacker, it just muddies it up.

But if he were franchise tagged, he would be franchise tagged as a safety. So if that's under that 15, 17 million, the team can always say, well, look, if we franchise tag you, it's going to be X and then you just have to play here no matter what. So that's the starting point of every negotiation is what the franchise tag would be or yeah, I mean, right. That's really the way every, every one of these starts. So I think it makes it a little bit tricky, a little dicey. I think that this team has been throwing cash at everything that moves because they have JJ McCarthy on a rookie contract, but there are limitations eventually to who you can pay.

And if you're throwing $20 million at a Josh Mattelis and you're paying Alan Hargrave Harrison Phillips got an extension by Ryn Murphy is now expensive. At some point you do reach a, okay, you're gonna have to do a lot in order to make all of this fit and you can't add other people in the future. I think Mattel is so vital to this defense. So long as Brian Flores is the defensive coordinator, Mattel is is one of the most valuable people on this defense and you're going to have to pay him that way. And as of right now, you could sort of call it a hold in, but he's still doing some stuff. He's just maybe being smart.

So don't make it sound like this greedy player is not. You don't want to mess it up. If you're in the middle of that negotiation, I just think it's one that might take a little bit of time because of the challenge of figuring out what the actual dollar figure is. Yeah, it's a hard calculus because he plays three positions and which one do you pay him at? There's probably not one position. If I'm Drew Rosenhouse, his agent, I'm not saying, well, we have to figure out which bucket he's going to be paid in. I'm saying he does all

of this for you. So he's more valuable than all of those positions combined because he really can be a linebacker one play a nickel back another play and a safety on you know, first, second and third down, he can play three different positions on your defense. There is a ton of value in that in the way that Brian Flores wants to be multiple with this defense. Brian Flores was asked about evolution of the defense today and he basically said there's not a lot more we can do because we've done it all. But what would they want to hone in on is being able to use different things in different situations that they haven't in the past.

A big key to unlocking that is Josh Mattelis, is everything that Brian Flores wants to do with Josh Mattelis. We've heard it in the past. Josh Mattelis will walk into Brian Flores' office on a whiteboard. It will be a million different things. And Brian Flores will say, this is what we're going to do with you this year. That's why I haven't been too concerned with this entire situation. It's not something that rises to the level of, let's push the red button and scream emergency. Because I'm just operating under the assumption that it's going to get done. I don't know when it's going to get done. I don't know that it will get done sooner rather than later.

But I do think it's going to get done at some point. Because I think the Vikings understand how important this guy is, not just to your team, but to the man, the mastermind that runs your defense. He loves Josh Mattelis and I don't think he wants to see him play anywhere else. So it's a tough calculus. It's probably why it took longer than getting a Andrew VanGinkel signed to a contract extension, getting a Josh Oliver signed to a contract extension. Who knows?

We might roll around here in July for training camp and it still might not be done. I think the reason for that is because it, he is such a singular player in terms of negotiations, in terms of what he does for the team, in terms of who in the league does what he does for his specific team. So I don't really have an issue with how he's handling himself. I look at Josh Mattelis as a guy who, even if he wanted to play hard ball, I don't know if he has it in him because he loves his teammates. He loves being out here.

It's a big reason why his teammates love him and why the coaches love him is because of how he carries himself. I think that's pretty ingrained in him. and I just, I couldn't see him. We've seen it across the league. There are people across the league who are not showing up to mandatory mini camp to kind of make a statement. That was never something I thought Josh Metellus would do. He's clearly not doing it now, but he's being smart.

Why run at full speed right now when half the practice is a walkthrough anyway? When 20 reps a day are at full speed, why do it? Why do it when there is money on the table for you? I think the money will be his at some point, but again I'm not pushing the red button. I'm not nervous. Well for both sides it just makes too much sense here. I mean, Josh Mattel is in another defense is not Josh Mattel is. And they know that and he knows that. And there's a little bit in a negotiation like this one.

I think of the show Pawn Stars. You ever watch Pawn Stars? I do. Where sometimes they'll have somebody come in and they'll be like, Oh, I have this hat signed by Jimi Hendrix and be like, I'll give you like 400 bucks for it and they're like, no, it's worth a thousand. They're like, okay, like 500 bucks and they're like, no, I'm walking out with it and then you go, but you don't have 500 bucks and that's not even worth that like

that's cool but it's not like worth 10 million dollars. Uh with a negotiation like this, it's it's so good for both sides to just do a deal and with Josh Mattel is if you do try to play hardball. Well, they could ask. I mean how much would you make in another place like how much is someone paying in free agency for Josh Mattel is it really is a special circumstance and I feel this way actually about Josh Oliver to here. This really works for Josh Oliver. If he played for San Francisco would

work but would it work in any team? I don't know if it would work the same way so they have to keep that in mind as they negotiate that will keep an eye on it. I think in general they have just been able to work these things out. So I agree with a lack of panic now we talked to Brian Flores. He talked about three players in detail that caught my ears. Number one was Isaiah Rogers, number two, Mackay Blackman, and number three, Dallas Turner. Let's pair Rogers and Blackman together. Seemed

to be very, very effusive in his praise for Mackay Blackman and the way that he came back. And he acknowledged that had he not got hurt last year, he was going to play a lot. They said they loved the way he attacked his rehab. He's looked like he's ready to go and to begin starting or playing in a big role for them. And that was somebody that Flores drafted in the third round and really liked. He mentioned his speed, his quickness, and I can't remember what word he used, but I took away smart, like really gets it. And then he talked about Isaiah Rogers as a player who he had had an eye on for a really long time

and he had liked him at UMass and he had watched him and he had felt like if he had a chance for a bigger role that he could be a better player and really show who he can be, that he's sort of developed over the years and is ready for this moment. Now let's combine those comments into a bigger question, which is, you know, it's coming, Dane. Are they bringing in

someone else? Because when I listen to that press conference and I look at the grin on Brian Flores' face, I don't get the sense that Jalen Ramsey or Jair Alexander is going to be a Viking. It seems like he's proud of what they have in these players and they're not just guys that he likes, but they're guys that he is handpicked. He has followed Rogers for a long

time. He drafted Blackman. He's ready for these guys to play. Did what you heard today for Brian Flores change anything on your view of the odds that the Vikings could get Jair Alexander or Jalen Ramsey? No, because I think it's a fun conversation to have like, should the Vikings trade for Jalen

Ramsey? Should they sign Jair Alexander? Like, it makes for fun fodder back and forth with your friends, perhaps on a podcast, like it does, it's something worth talking about and worth discussing. But when you really break it down to the nitty gritty of who is making this decision, like I know it's Quasidopf Emensa, but it's Brian Flores. I think if Brian Flores was banging on the table and saying, go get me Jair Alexander. I would venture to guess it probably gets done in some way, shape or form, or we start hearing a lot more noise of like, there are some genuine interest.

But I don't get the sense that that's where it's headed. And again, like it could be wrong in two days. But when you hear the way he talks about his guys, emphasis on his guys, the guys that he, like you said, handpicked, I think he wants to play out the string. I think he wants to see what Isaiah Rogers looks like through spring, into summer, in training camp, in preseason. I think he wants to give Isaiah Rogers this opportunity that Brian Flores believes if Isaiah Rogers was given an opportunity he can thrive

in I think that he wants to let that kind of play out before you just bring in a guy who's 28 and often injured. Same with Mackay Blackman. I think it probably pained Brian Flores more than anybody except for maybe Mackay Blackman. I think it probably pained Brian Flores more than anybody except for maybe Mackay Blackman that that guy got hurt last year because he wanted to see a continuation of what was a pretty darn good rookie campaign. So no, I don't think they're going to sign Jair Alexander tomorrow. I don't think they're going to trade for Jalen Ramsey tomorrow because I think they want to see what this defense looks like with these two guys that there is clearly a belief. He even mentioned Jeff Okuda, which that guy fits a Brian Flores mold as a quarterback.

And he kind of went out his way to mention Jeff Okuda. So I think he's happy with this room. I did not take that as a bluff of like, yeah, we'll do it. We'll keep with these guys. I think there's a genuine belief in that group that he at least wants to see through. Maybe in training camp it becomes obvious these guys are not starting outside cornerbacks in the league. Then I could see them be reactive. But in June, with an entire summer ahead of them, I think they want to see this cornerback

room kind of for what it is, and then react accordingly from there if they have to. So my contention would be that these corners are just good enough to not have to replace them out of sheer panic, but that doesn't mean that's the best chance for your defense to be top five in the NFL. And corners get hurt, especially if it's Jair Alexander. You know you're signing up for like four or 500 snaps. If you bring him in, if it's Jalen Ramsey, well that guy is taking over and he's gonna be the dude on your defense.

But your goal against these great offenses and quarterbacks that you have to face this year and within your division is to be the best possible version of yourself. So you might be turning down great because you're really happy with good. And I mean, we saw with the secondary last year, they were capable of being really good without elite secondary play with just good secondary play. But they've gone all in at so many other positions with older players and veterans that I'm still for them doing it, especially with Jalen Ramsey.

I'm a little more tentative on Jair Alexander. But just from listening to it, if we're trying to read the tea leaves, it doesn't sound like that's something that is going to happen. Now, if you're quasi at Alphamenta, you might be looking at it and saying, Brian, I know you love these guys. But I mean, one guy gets banged up and then all of a sudden you are at Jeff Akuta, you are at Dwight McClothern and I mean, I don't know what Akuta is going to bring to the mix. I can't figure that out from watching this and McClothern has never played before.

That's who you might be relying on if someone has an ACL injury like McKay Blackman had last year or even just gets banged up for six games and is out for that section. The depth of this doesn't really feel all that thick to me and a lot of rooms aren't. But if you brought in Jalen Ramsey, then all of a sudden your depth is incredible and you can rotate and do a lot of different things. So I'm still for very much for the Ramsey idea. We'll see if they decide to go in those directions. Just to take away from today seemed like the most direct that Brian Flores was about anything was those two corners

and how happy he is to have them. The other thing he was most direct about which is where we will end the show today. Dallas Turner. I will reiterate Dallas Turner looks bigger. I would say markedly bigger than what he looked at at the end of last year where I was like, said, uh, tight end. Is that a wide receiver? Like, uh, he had not kept the weight on through last season

and came back in very good shape this year. And also it's been noticeable in OTAs and then today, many camp that he is working in with Granada, Van Ginkgole at times, and then he is also working on the second team at another spot. So they are cross-training him at different positions. And the biggest thing that I took away from Brian Flores was not actually an answer, but a correction. Our friend Ahmad Hicks from Fox9, he asked like, hey, you know, did Dallas Turner learn

being behind Van Ginkle and Granada? And he said, well, I wouldn't really say behind, you know, he was looking at it as we have three starters and I think it really showed you the level of confidence. And once again, we have comments matching up with actions with Dallas Turner. And it feels to me like this team is buying Dallas Turner stock. What does that mean? We're going to see. But at the midway point of training camp, I feel like we could be saying, Oh yeah,

like this is what he was supposed to be last year. He was just a 21 year old rookie. Yeah. And I think that is another thing that came out of Brian Flores. His comments today is a reminder that sometimes a rookie years is tough on guys. And we've gone back to this with Dallas Turner time and time again, it was always gonna be tough on him as a 21 year old coming from Alabama

and all of a sudden you're 21 years old living in a new city, this is your job. I get it, they're professionals, they get paid a lot of money, but it is a hard adjustment, especially for a 21 year old kid, yes, a kid at that point. And then the tragedy that strikes with Kyrie Jackson passing away. I think that impacted Dallas Turner. And I think as a whole, when you are starting a new situation and then your

life gets turned upside down, with someone really close to you passing away, I think that can have a ripple effect on just wanting to get out of bed and forcing yourself to kind of do the work. I think it was a tough rookie year for Dallas Turner across the board, but I think it was also one that impressed a lot of people the way he was consistently able to put his head down and go to work. And I think that has continued not only through his rookie season, but through his first real offseason as a pro. You've heard it from Jonathan Grenard, from Harrison Phillips, all of the leaders on this defense, I think Byron Murphy even, they are impressed with the way he's gone about this off season and then kind of bringing it all home.

We talked to the defensive coordinator today. We talked to Brian Flores today and he's echoing a lot of the things that these leaders are saying about Dallas Turn. So I think the expectations are very high for him. I know they traded the farm to get him last year. I think when you trade so much and you don't get the immediate production, that's going to get people to push back and say, was it worth it? If by the middle of training camp or early in to this upcoming season,

we see the talent that is so obviously there and we see it time and time again on the field, I don't think anybody's going to be caring about the hall that, that it took to get a guy at a premium position in the league with a huge ramp way to get better. I think he's doing the things necessary to take that next step. And I think the Vikings very much want him to take that next step. So we'll see where this thing goes.

But I think when you just read kind of between the lines with where Brian Flores is at with Dallas Turner, he's expecting big things from him this year pretty immediately. And I was thinking about like last year's defense versus this year's and respect to Patrick Jones and the handful of sacks that he got most of when in the first like three weeks and then never really again but no no disrespect Patrick Jones was a guy on the team and they were a good defense and Jahad Ward same thing but those guys weren't really needle movers they weren't

really above average players these are guys that you sign for a couple million bucks and they fill spots and you just hope that they can give you something Dallas Turner. If this clicks with what they have is turning the heat up on what they can do with pressure with disguise with just putting him on the edge and letting him beat somebody or dropping him back and we see him intercept the pass and that is a different dynamic to a defense that had some spots last year that were patched together and Patrick

Jones was a part of that and so was Jahad Ward that now could be legitimately dangerous if Dallas Turner takes a step forward so his progress to hear about and to see a little bit of from him being out here and how they're using him is a good sign for their defense. But if it really clicks that can be one of those difference makers that as the season goes along, we go. Oh right. That's what this was supposed to look like now with Dallas Turner maybe coming into his early prime, but as you said a long way to go. It's

just that the early returns on Dallas Turner year two have been good so far. I'm going to I'm going to tell you something and I want you to react to it and then we'll we'll put a bow on a very detailed mini camp practice recap I'm When I initially picked the schedule, I picked ten wins now you're gonna come over You're gonna do a porch podcast sometime in the summer We're gonna sit out there and sweat on my porch and we're gonna do do this and we're going to have you pick every game. I pick 10 wins. I think I'd pick 11 today.

Oh, I haven't picked the schedule yet. So I can't give you where my number was and where it is now. But I can give you where my number was last week when you asked me percentage chance the Vikings make the playoffs. I think I gave you 57% because some index said it like 43% chance of the Vikings make the playoffs. I said 57%. You said 71%. I'm keeping track of these numbers.

I said 57% because I thought it was more likely than not that they make the playoffs. So while I cannot give you 10 wins to 11 wins, I can give you 57%. I'm moving it up. I'm in the 60s now. I'm 64%. I'm joking a little bit, but I'm serious in the sense that the roster is extremely talented and I think the quarterback is extremely talented. So maybe this is a perfect way to close the loop. Like the quarterback is going to dictate where this thing really goes but I don't think you need superhero like play from

JJ McCarthy. You just need him to be pretty good. And everything I've seen so far, yes, he threw another interception today. But everything I've seen so far from JJ McCarthy, coupled with the team, coupled with a large, very in-depth look at everything that we saw today, is that this team is extremely talented. They're going to get quarterback play that at least in my opinion is going to be above average, adequate at the position, enough to not tank what's in front of you. And I think the team is so talented,

that was part of the calculus all along. I'm moving my total up to 64% that they make the playoffs. I can't give you a win total, but I see where you're going. I think your point in this is they're pretty damn good. Or they have the potential to beat. Well, I needed to see him throw the ball a little. Yeah. And now that we've seen him throw the ball,

and it looks like he's throwing it even better than he was in training camp last year, start to get a little more confident. I think the vibes overall are very good for this team and even signing someone like Josh Oliver is just another sort of positive thing to happen inside of the building. And yeah, a lot of it's based on what they're saying

and what it looks like in seven on sevens and so forth. But that tends to matter, I think, throughout the year because what you can always sense is when somebody means it or when they're like, I mean, you know, he's, he's working. He's out there, but look, we got other guys and they're working too. Like that's one of those answers. They sort of weaves around it. But I think they were very, very specific and pointed today on some of the players that

they are high on in the defense. So, alright, Dane Mizzetani, another great mini camp recap. We'll have another one with Alec Lewis tomorrow, and then a live show on Thursday night, breaking down everything we learned from mini camp. So, thanks everybody for watching slash listening, and we will see you all again very soon. Football. Football.