Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How did JJ McCarthy look in OTAs? (Week 2 edition)

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by the Pioneer Press' Dane Mizutani to discuss how JJ McCarthy did on a windy practice field at TCO Performance Center during Week 2 of Vikings OTAs. Plus, other Vikings takeaways.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome inside TCO Performance Center, Matthew Coller along with Dane Mizzetani. And we have just come back inside from watching JJ McCarthy, our second open OTA practice to reporters. So we're going to break it down for you. And here's what we got for you today. So we thought we did a breakdown of his first OTA practice, went through all the ramifications of JJ McCarthy looking the same as JJ McCarthy did last year really before he got hurt. So we decided to take

a couple of passes that he made today at OTAs and we're going to highlight those and then we're going to talk about five players who stood out for some particular reason to us Including I had to make a late change because Harrison Phillips had a very enthusiastic Press conference, so we're going to talk about what he had to say as well But why don't we get to the big picture Dane of how this practice looked? I'll give you my observation first. You can tell me if you agree I thought that it was much more choppy from J.J. McCarthy today. It was crazy windy out there but also the ball wasn't coming out

quite as much as fast as it was the last time we were here and there was one moment that stood out to me that wasn't a throw but it was after a play where Kevin O'Connell pulled McCarthy aside and they had an extended conversation that went on for a couple of minutes before they started the drill back together. Now a not as great practice does not change anything that I think about where the Vikings are with JJ McCarthy after we saw him look very good, but just proof that there's going to be a ways to go with this team learning the offense with JJ McCarthy proof that there's going to be a ways to go with this team, learning the offense with JJ McCarthy and that there will be ups and downs as we go along this little journey through, uh,

the OTAs mini camp and then onto training camp. Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head. It was after watching him last week and the excitement that surrounded him and certainly the excitement on the field from his teammates and coaches and the excitement on social media fans. It was, where could this thing go? I think this is a good example that it is going to be a bit of a roller coaster this year as he learns and comes to it into his own as a quarterback in the NFL. You don't just get dropped in your QB one now and everything comes easy. There might be a point in his rookie year where it starts to look like it's coming easy, but I would be pretty surprised if there aren't some peaks and valleys along the way. Last week, peak. This week, bit of a valley. Don't want to overstate it too much. Don't want to

sound the alarms and say this guy's a bust. Absolutely couldn't be further from the truth. I still believe in this kid. But I think today was a good example of how this thing could look. And look, next week, week and a half from now, we'll have mandatory mini camp. We'll see him three days in a row then. Then they'll take a little break.

Then we'll have training camp. We'll see him 16, 17, 18 days in a row row and you'll probably see some peaks and valleys there as well. So last week's practice Couldn't have been better. I think in a perfect world You would see a continuation of that as they move from indoors to outdoors Not necessarily, but I think you've heard Kevin O'Connell say this too, growth isn't always linear, especially at the quarterback position, and I think today was a good example of that. I also want to just kind of explain how this

works out here, which is we start off by watching them take the warm-ups. So you're seeing JJ McCarthy throw to wide receivers, a myriad of different throws, downfield, we'll get to how some of those things looked. Underneath stuff, just warming up. And you can get a good feel for how accurate he is on a given day, which he was very accurate in the warmups. And then we get to the seven on sevens, where that's the high speed. You're seeing real plays get run, but with only seven defenders, no offensive line.

And then that's only about two sections, maybe 15 plays of the practice. And then the entire rest of it is 11 on 11, running at half speed. And then they did some red zone drills today, which we'll talk about as well. So the sample size of what we actually saw today was only about 10 to 15 plays in seven on sevens,

and then maybe five to seven more plays in the red zone. We're not working with a lot like a training camp where they go 11 on 11, play after play after play after play and we get a real big sense of how training camp is going. So I think we can better tell the story of this practice though through the throws that stood out to us. So I want to start out with the first one for me was actually in warmups. And I know you could say, well, what can you really take from a warmup? But the wind today, I don't know what the actual miles per hour was, but as much as hard as we have ever seen out here today.

I mean, truly at the end of practice, they have these pad things that guys jump on and they just blew away and they probably weigh like 30 pounds or they probably weigh more than that. They got caught in the wind and they blew away. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that against the wind, he was on one side throwing directly into the wind,

he let one rip, I would say 40 to 45 yards down the field to Justin Jefferson and Jefferson at the end cruised to catch it by tapping it to himself with one hand and then just grabbing it and you went that's right. Remember that throw JJ McCarthy because you can make that anytime to Justin Jefferson and it was very interesting listening to Jefferson talk about McCarthy after practice because number one I saw there was some debate about McCarthy's arm strength. He commented on that and said, well,

he could definitely fire it in there and has the requisite arm strength to make the throws. But Jefferson is going back to a similar refrain when it comes to working with McCarthy is believe in me, my friend, and things will go really well for you. And he also said that the reason he showed up here was that they asked him, the team said, hey, can you come to OTAs and get this chemistry going right away with JJ McCarthy? And I think we've started to see that

between McCarthy and Jefferson. And you can just feel Jefferson. I mean, think about, you take over a team with the best receiver in the world. But I think Jefferson has a way of making everyone feel welcome around him and feel confident quarterbacks, especially that it's not a oh, you threw it here there. It's oh, that's an opportunity for me to make a freakish catch and that will be great for me. And that's exactly what he did in warm-ups. And I just have felt like both practices we've seen those two

on the same page, which is clearly the most important relationship in this organization. Yeah, and I'll kind of go off of that with my first throw that really stood out to me. Actually, it was kind of two throws. You used the Jefferson one at the end of warmups. I thought a throw that stood out was a throw to Jordan Addison at the beginning of warmups. I think it was his first throw of the day once

they broke into individual drills. Your throw that you had him going to Justin Jefferson was into the wind. This throw was with the wind at his back. And I thought that did a good job displaying the touch that JJ McCarthy has able to throw with the wind at your back, the arm strength that you have, and to drop it into Jordan Addison down the field. Again, these are warmups. They're against air. But those are the moments where you see the arm strength. That was kind of an extra little nugget one you'll get from me. But the other one that stood out to me and it kind of goes off of your Jefferson throw, once they broke into seven on sevens, it was an in breaker and it wasn't anything spectacular. And he might have been technically sacked on the play. But the

in breaking routes to Jefferson at 15 to 20 yard depths are always gonna stand out to me whenever JJ McCarthy lets them rip because he's gonna throw that ball a lot this year. He's gonna throw everybody knows Kevin O'Connell loves the in breakers 20 yards downfield. So yeah, it's gonna pique my interest when I see JJ McCarthy let that thing rip, even if it's in a seven on seven drill on June 2. So that was, I guess, me playing off of you. Yeah, anytime JJ McCarthy is throwing the ball to Justin Jefferson. One, it's a good thing for both

of them to continue to get on the same page. But two, it's just a preview of what is to come. The second throw, not so great. There was an heartbreaking route, I believe to Jordan Addison that McCarthy was a little bit late and may have tipped his hand a little bit. I mean, some of this with the seven on sevens, we don't know how much the defense can really tell by route route combinations but the actual throw was I think a little bit late on out breaking routes there was one last year an interception

that Sam Darnold threw it might have been against the Rams where someone just undercut the route and what usually happens with undercutting the route is that the timing is not right so what what happened on the darn old interception in the playoffs was he was just a little bit hesitant to let the ball rip as opposed to throwing with anticipation and the corner jumped underneath it. That's exactly what happened here, which is that McCarthy was a little bit late in turning and firing to Jordan Addison and Isaiah Rogers, who we'll talk about later, recognized it, undercut the route, ends up picking it off. And it also reminded me of last year

in the preseason game where he threw an interception. It was different because he was on the move and he had that like, don't throw it, don't throw it, whoops, I threw it kind of thing in the preseason game when he threw that pick. But in this one, it was just purely footwork timing. Am I letting it go at the right time? Am I throwing it to the right place?

And it wasn't there and it ends up getting intercepted. Now the reason that this stands out to me is because of how much work has to go into them getting on the same page with all of the timing. And that may have been one or it may have been a sack where he had the long conversation with Kevin O'Connell but that was the theme of the practice today overall I think that interception was representative of what happened which was he just was not on the timing in the rhythm in the same way that he was when we saw them indoors last week. And I think it speaks to the up and down nature of what it takes to learn in the NFL.

And that's why you don't come back here and say, oh my gosh, he had a tough practice today. Like they're in trouble. Like of course they're not in trouble. And of course we've been talking about all the physical things we've seen from him. And last week was a very smooth practice. Well, this week it was not as much and that was the biggest standout bad play

was the interception where he gets picked off by Rogers. Yeah and that's that was the second throw I wrote down as well and I'm sure every reporter who was there wrote it down because probably not the best throw to make in that situation and it did come at a point in the seven on seven drills where the ball wasn't coming out on time where there were a few tough reps in a row so this is me assuming but you could you can kind of see the brain working of the timing was late because a couple of plays hadn't worked out in his favor leading up to that. So that one was gonna stand out but in that same breath and maybe this is just me

looking at it with a glass half full mentality, I did think back to his quote from last week which was it was basically his entire goal or his thesis of OTAs was not being afraid to fail, not being afraid to take chances. And if you're going to learn the timing and learn if you can make that throw or how I need to throw the ball to make that throw, you have to be willing to take some interceptions sometime. So the quote last week from JJ McCarthy that stood out, I've recited it to my coworkers, my friends, because it's, it's just a bar, was something along the lines of trying to be perfect will be more harmful to my growth than my imperfections ever will be. That's a bar. Tupac couldn't have written that any better.

That is what I also thought about. After looking back at that play and saying, not a good throw, good break by Isaiah Rodgers, but not the best throw was just like, yeah, this is what OTAs are for in a lot of ways. It's June 2nd. You're going to make throws that you're going to want back, but you got to be willing to make these throws. It also made me think of there were times when Kirk Cousins was here, Kevin O'Connell would have to beat over his head. Like you got to throw the ball, we need to see this rep. So yes, in a vacuum, not a good play for JJ McCarthy, not a good rep. I don't think he's going to feel good about that when he watches the tape back. But also, it's a learning moment in June. So maybe in July, it looks different because of that moment in June. Maybe in August, maybe in September.

But these are the times to make those mistakes. And it's not to say he's not going to make that mistake again. But that is a throw that stood out to me and kind of everything that goes along with him making that throw, I think is emblematic of his growth as a quarterback in this system and kind of where this thing can go moving forward Another point to make also is that when a mistake is made and I couldn't help but think of like Caleb Williams last year Where your head coach is on the defensive side and doesn't seem to be that involved with your progress Where what the type of coaching when we talk about Kevin O'Connell is quarterback whisper

and stuff like that. I mean it literally is him being right there for JJ McCarthy to go over anytime something goes wrong. And that's why O'Connell beats it over our heads that it's the learning phase and we're not really keeping completions and interceptions and things like that because he's trying to learn things and to have that resource there to make a mistake and then have your head coach look over and they have a video board out there going to break on balls that college guys didn't and he's going to have to get that rhythm of the actual NFL back kind of under his feet into his brain rewired in there that the speed of this thing and the timing of this thing are are absolutely vital. So that's probably way too much time on one interception. So let's go to another throw that stood out to me, which was when they did a red zone drill.

Now, this is like wide receivers and defensive backs, and that's all the people on the field. It's nobody else. And they run their routes and the quarterback just stands there like flag football and then lets it fire away. There was one or two that looked like it would have been a

scramble if it was in a real game, but there was another play where TJ Hockinson was going to the back of the end zone and he let it go at super high velocity. I mean as hard as he could throw the football and it went off of Hockinson's hands, which is something that's happened to him a few times more times than you would like to see in his Vikings career. But the velocity behind this football, I think it really shows you that McCarthy can create that torque with his midsection,

the same way that Sam Darnold could, that he's not quite as big and developed as a grown person as Sam Darnold, who was 27 years old. But the way that they create velocity, and that's why when we're having that discussion about the arm strength, I haven't at any point had any concern about JJ McCarthy's actual arm strength. As you mentioned, he's learning how to put the touch on the ball down the field, but when it comes to actually,

like, letting it rip, especially over the middle of the field, we see a ton of velocity and Hockinson in real games is going to have to catch that football in the back of the end zone for a touchdown because this would have been a dime. And I just thought it demonstrated the type of pass that he makes the best I think, which is over the middle in breaking routes and right to the back of the end zone, accurate, good timing. That to me was a confidence type of throw that you really need TJ Hockinson to bring it in. I know Hockinson has his detractors among Vikings fans.

I think we do have to give him some space to fully be recovered and he will be big for JJ McCarthy. But that is a you're throwing it away from a defender into a tiny window. Let that thing go. And I think that was another part of it for me is it's not a big window. He's not wide open and you just have to make that fit because there's no other option in the red zone. And he was able to do that.

Uh, yeah, I'm not going to try to make a huge point about this other than just that type of throw. I think he does really, really well and we're going to see them play into it a lot this year. Yeah. And it had to be that type of throw in that situation. And yes, go back and watch the film. I'm sure they will. TJ Hawkinson is going to say he should have caught that ball. I think everybody who watched said, yeah, tough catch, but you got to make that catch and I think it's important that you brought that throw up and I'll bring

up my third throw, but like, because yes, the velocity was necessary on that throw in the red zone. I think sometimes throughout what we've seen so far with the maturation process of JJ McCarthy, it's you don't always have to throw the ball as hard as you possibly can. But that moment in that situation on that part of the field, like yes, it absolutely had to be rocketed in there as hard as you possibly can throw it because the window is this small in the red zone. So I had no issue with that throw. It was one of his highlights,

even though it won't go as one because it was dropped in the back of the end zone. On the flip side of that, it was my third throw, which it was a simple incompletion that probably I'm reading a little bit too much into, but I thought it was an example of throwing the ball too hard. It was an RPO, Justin Jefferson kind of leaking out on a bubble and

JJ McCarthy tried to throw it like Randy Johnson in his prime. And the ball went about five yards in front of Justin Jefferson. And I think right there is like, you see the two sides of the spectrum, the Hawkinson throw. Yeah, that has to be zipped in there. The Jefferson throw that I'm mentioning probably doesn't need to be thrown as hard as you possibly can throw it. That also came at the end of some tough reps for him. So I did kind of feel a little bit like a snowball in seven on seven.

The caveat being, yes, like you said earlier, 10, 15, maybe 17 reps. So not a big sample size. If you have a couple off throws, 10, 15, maybe 17 reps. So not a big sample size. If you have a couple off throws in that time, they're going to be magnified. What I do want to mention though is after he, I guess we could say, overthrew Justin Jefferson, later in the drill when the backups go in and you got Sam Howell, you got Max Brosmer getting reps, JJ McCarthy went over to Justin Jefferson and I don't know what they were talking about, but I love to see the dynamic, the back and

forth with them. And it goes kind of off of what Justin Jefferson told us about JJ McCarthy's leadership. He knows he's the starting quarterback now. So he knows he has to go have those conversations. And we talked to Harrison Phillips today too. And he said it reminds him the way J.J. McCarthy is handling himself, the way he's carrying himself on the field, reminds him of when Josh Allen was coming into his own with the Buffalo Bills. Harrison Phillips did not say J.J. McCarthy is

going to be Josh Allen. But he said, like, look, this kid is carrying himself with the Moxie, with the swagger of a franchise quarterback. It's a snapshot moment in practice. It's a conversation between JJ McCarthy and Justin Jefferson after not such a great situation, not such a good set of drills. But that stood out to me too. They are getting on the same page and it is this young quarterback being unafraid to go up to his best player, chop it up, move on

to the next drill. Those little moments, as much as the throws are as important as, in a big reason why Justin Jefferson being here is important. You need those things too. And Harrison Phillips had a good story about JJ McCarthy last year. Now he said that last year he wasn't in the locker room as much because he was rehabbing and doing different things like that. But now he is in the locker room all the time. There's these huge couches in the middle of the locker room and the TV is for some reason always playing impractical jokers and I don't know why. I don't know if they like that show. And the guys kind of mingled there

and they spend a lot of time there and he said that that's like a space to talk people up get to know people greet new players that come in dab them up get to know them and that just even those little things I think all the things that have ever been talked about with JJ McCarthy in the past of the reasons that he's drafted in the first round is a lot of just how he carries himself as a QB one and the confidence that he brings and even when the practice is not going that well we have seen practices that are not going that well turn into meltdowns from the quarterback where suddenly you can't get anything done anymore in that day's practice that was certainly not the case

today he is very good at that rep didn't go very well. Talk it out onto the next one. We don't see any body language from him ever that is down or that is frustrated. I mean maybe smacking the hands together whatever after a bad throw, but you always see him on as far as his energy and his leadership and things like that and that to me will carry through a lot of the ups and downs. So bottom line on this practice was it was not as good as the last time. It was certainly not a disaster.

And he can learn things from this. And next week, when we get three practices in a row, normally mini camp has more either 11 on 11 or intense seven on sevens that we could take a lot more from more red zone drills and we'll have more conclusions and then we can decide at the end of that. How did we really feel about the accumulation of J.J. McCarthy's spring session? That's just where we're at one step at a time. So let's talk about the other thing is we were out there watching the practice together.

We made a list of five other players that stood out for some reason. Excuse me while I call up our lists. Okay. The first person was Isaiah Rogers with his interception. We described in way too much detail already the interception, but Isaiah Rogers was the starting outside corner. The last time we were here, he was not practicing. He certainly has a lot of speed. I think he has more size than I thought that he may have had. And it looks like as of right now, as of this second, now later today, they could trade for Jalen Ramsey and you know, okay,

but as of right now, it looks like they're going to put a lot of trust in Isaiah Rogers. Do you believe that? Yeah, I believe that and when I trust in Isaiah Rogers. Do you believe that? Yeah, I believe that. And when I look at Isaiah Rogers out there, he had yellow gloves, yellow shoes. He looked fast just based on the swag he was wearing. But I think about back to owners meetings,

we were talking to Kevin O'Connell at a breakfast with the coaches. There's like a million people in there. They're all at these tables, but the Vikings beat writers were talking to Kevin O'Connell at a breakfast with the coaches. There's like a million people in there. They're all at these tables, but the Vikings beat writers were talking to Kevin O'Connell and he basically told us flat out, do not overlook Isaiah Rogers. This is a guy Flo loved this off season. That was enough for me to say, okay, I'll keep an eye on him in OTAs, in mandatory mini camp, in training camp.

And of course, the first OTAs he shows up, he picks off JJ McCarthy, which like we've talked about, not the best throw, but also really good break on the ball. Like that can't be ignored, just because it wasn't a throw that necessarily should have been made. Great break on the ball. And he caught the ball. Like how often do you see cornerbacks, you know, in practice and games? Oh, what a break on the ball, he dropped it or oh, good, good PBU. He finished the play. And I just thought where he was lining up on the field, who he was mixing in with, like you said, he is very clearly a starting cornerback as things currently stand. That was big. We hadn't seen him last week. We didn't know necessarily where he was going to rotate in, but when they're in base, he's an outside corner with Byron Murphy on the other side, and when they're in nickel, he's an outside corner with Byron Murphy bumping down and Jeff

Okuda, who we'll talk about maybe next, on the outside. So Isaiah Rogers looks the part of an important piece of this defense right now. And maybe that shouldn't be that surprising because they prioritized him on day one of free agency and the head coach of the football team told us two months ago. Keep an eye on this guy. I'll continue to do that but first day of seeing Isaiah Rogers in action pretty good. Also, he was kick returning, and that is something that for a starting outside corner would make me very nervous.

With the amount of kick returning duties, I would prefer that that goes to Ty Chandler. But Isaiah Rogers has a case of being the fastest player on the entire team. So and he's done it. He's done the entire team. So, and he's done it. He's done the returning thing. Real quick, are you for or against the Vikings with Jalen Ramsey? And I've been talking about trade options, but they might just end up cutting him for Miami so then he would have his choice of where to go. Would you be interested in that if you are the Vikings? Oh, yeah, definitely. And that's no knock on Isaiah Rogers. That's no knock on Isaiah Rogers,

that's no knock on Mackay Blackman, the White McClothern. Just think Jalen Ramsey, people are gonna say he's 30, he's old, like he was pretty good last year. Just go look at the numbers, go look at the analytics. He was a good cornerback in the league last year. I'd trade for him if he was available. I don't care about the draft picks, like who cares? If I can get a starting cornerback in a year that it looks like the Vikings are going for it, they're

going for it. They're definitely going for it. Doesn't look like it. They're going for it. Did you see the offseason? Like if I can get a starting cornerback of the caliber of Jalen Ramsey, I'm trading for him and if Miami just cuts him, then yeah I'm going out and signing him. They signed Stefan Gilmore last year, who was six years older than Jaylen Ramsey is now, and Gilmore gave them good reps for a large chunk of the season. I think Jaylen Ramsey would give them better reps for an even larger portion of the season. So yeah, I'm all about that.

I'm not going to say it's a failure if they don't make it happen, but it's certainly been a talking point in the circles of Vikings fandom. And I'm for that. My thing is that they've just made this move four or five other times this off season. I mean, they go out and get Jonathan Allen, previously a superstar, probably still pretty good.

Javon Hargrave, Ryan Kelly, like Aaron Jones. These are the types of guys that are veterans. They are past their primes, technically speaking, but there's still a lot left in the tank and they're well above average players. And if you have your superstars in their prime, like Jefferson and Granard, they're driving the bus and these guys are the support role.

And Harrison Phillips talked about that with the veteran players, guys who have won before, who have been, you know, Javon Hargrave has been in Super Bowls before himself. When you're bringing in veterans who know how to do this, everybody hates an old team because you want to think, oh, our team will win for 50 years if we have all young players. Well, that's not usually how it ends up working out. There's a lot of teams that have won over the years with veteran players surrounding a young quarterback and the best example is San Francisco. They brought out Hargrave last year. They brought in Trent

Williams. They brought in Christian McCaffrey. Those are veteran players and the Vikings have done the same thing. I think he's still got a lot in the tank. Like you said, if they don't do it, we'll see how it plays out. But if they don't land him, then there's going to be a lot more attention on someone like Isaiah Rogers. In part, another player I wrote down that stood out was Jeff Okuda because Mackay Blackman was here but was not doing the workouts today. I don't know if it's part of the rehab process or something like that from his ACL injury but Jeff Okuda was taking the first team reps with the nickel group so when you had Byron Murphy in there and Isaiah Rogers then you also had Jeff Okuda and as much as

I'm intrigued like everybody else and he is enormous for a corner. I mean, I see why he was a top draft pick. This guy is humongous. Still we're talking about someone with not a whole lot of track record of success in the NFL. And that's the next man up. It was not Dwight McClothern today as of today. Now, well, I'll throw back to the Juwan Williams era. We've seen this before, where a veteran is the one who's going to get those first reps and opportunities. The point is though, that one guy down and you're playing someone who has had a very rocky start to

their career in Jeff Okuda. And that's kind of being polite with the way that it's gone for one of the former top picks in the league that would make me inspired to think about Jalen Ramsey. But also it's kind of intriguing that Jeff Okuda, this guy who is so highly touted coming out, is looking like he's getting his shot here with the Vikings. Yeah, he stood out to me last week because like we've mentioned, Isaiah Rogers wasn't there last week when we were indoors.

Jeff Okuda, first man up with Byron Murphy on the outside and then today when Isaiah Rogers returns to practice, Jeff Okuda is right there. Like you said, when they're in nickel, it does feel like he was just in terms of body type built in a lab for Brian Flores and the type of guys he likes to play at corner. Big, physical, specimens on the outside with tools for days. Does he have the technique? Is he going to be able to stay healthy? Those are questions that will be answered at some point, probably in the near future,

probably sooner rather than later. But yeah, when you have a guy who, do you go third overall, fourth overall, like five years ago, and he's now potentially trying to carve out a starting role on your team with the madman defensive coordinator who has been known to be able to squeeze a lot of juice out of the orange. Yeah. It's an interesting moment right now. And you look at Jeff Okuda and you look at kind of where he's lining up and where he could be and

what he could be for this defense. But I'm glad you brought up Joann Williams. We did the same thing with him. He was a former second round pick. He comes in, we all talked to him on the first day of OTAs and mandatory mini camp. And then by like week two of training camp, he's like with the third stringer. So is Jeff Okuda going to be someone who takes this and runs with it and kind of changes the narrative on his career here? Or is he going to be the next version of Joe Juan Williams?

No disrespect to Joe Juan Williams. The guy was great. He was great to us. But I think he is the example you point to at sometimes if guys don't pan out early, they don't pan out at all. You often are what you are in the NFL. Jeff Okuda is going to get a chance to change the narrative on his career. Will he take it and run with it? It's up to him, remains to be seen. But right now he's working with the starters

and that means something early in June. I also wanted to mention just from an injury perspective that Rondale Moore was working out on the side and was over with the rest of the team while they were doing their 11 on 11s. He wasn't doing anything with them, but at very least he was running routes and sprints and stuff like that on his own on kind of the rehab field. Also noticed Gavin Bartholomew over there as well,

so, you know, maybe just got some sort of banged up. But the fact that Rondale Moore was there, we didn't see Will Fries, and I think that was it though. I think everybody else that we would notice was out there but more clearly on his way back and I think we'll end up seeing him at training camp and probably not at any point during OTAs but at very least seeing him means he does exist and he's working his way back from his injury from last year. The next guy I had on the list was Josh Metellus. This is kind of brief though because Metellus was not participating in the full speed seven on seven stuff. Josh Metellus needs a

new contract. They need to get that contract done with Josh Metellus. That's the whole point that soon enough that that should happen, but it hasn't happened yet. And I do think there's a little bit of a challenge with Josh Mattelis of figuring out how do you put a number on this guy? I mean, you've got snap counts. You've got other safeties. You've got linebackers.

You've got nickel corners, and he's all of these things. But that versatility is worth more. How much are you going to pay him? Who can you compare him to around the NFL? I think that's really hard because if I'm Josh Mattel, as I'm saying, I've played a thousand snaps two years in a row, I've got sacks, I've got interceptions, I've got pressures.

I'm a big part of this defense and the versatility. So now you should be looking to pay me like that, but they might be saying, okay, well, we can't give you Van Ginkle money because sacks are worth a lot more. And also, then we're talking about getting a little too expensive down the road, giving everybody 20 million per year.

So landing on a number with Josh Mattel might be a little bit difficult. This is just something to keep an eye on. My expectation is that they'll work something out, but going into the last year of his contract, he really shouldn't be doing any seven on sevens until he has a new extension worked out, if that's something that they're work something out. But going into the last year of his contract, he really shouldn't be doing any seven on sevens until he has a new extension worked out, if that's something that they're going for.

But just, it's not a red flag, it's not a panic situation, but just something that came to my mind. Like, this could be an interesting negotiation to figure out how you pay someone that has no comparables around the league. Yeah, it's not even a hold-in. I don't know if I'd even call it that And you see hold ins now with guys showing up to the facility but not partaking in any of the workouts

He wasn't partaking in the full speed drills He was a part of full team drills that were done at half speed, but I think you're right about him like Who is like him in the league? There isn't really a a player comp or a contract comp that you can come to. So in a lot of ways, if you're the Vikings, and on the other side of that, if you're Josh Metellus, you're setting the market on the hybrid role, which I think is going to become a little bit more prevalent in the league.

Now you need a mad man mastermind like Brian Flores and a guy like Josh Mantellas who can do it. It's not something that every team in the league can just copy because you need a very specific set of skills for that player to be impactful in your defense. But they are going to be setting the market for this type of versatility in a lot of ways. But if you're Josh Mantellas, you just saw Andrew van Ginkle get paid, you're playing on a contract right now that is basically I'm a good special teams player that sometimes plays defense and you're so much more than that to this team. So the new contract is definitely deserved. I think it will be awarded at some point. And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't

see him in full speed drills moving forward. I would be surprised if he just stops showing up because the dude loves football. And I think he is what you would look up in the dictionary like professional, great teammate. It's Josh Mattelis. He's not going to make this about himself. But yeah, you got to get paid. You got you do so much for this team. You are so valuable for this team. You deserve to be paid as such. So definitely something to keep an eye on. The fact that he was there this week, he was not around last week. I don't know if those two things are related. It could just be something came up with Josh Matalas last week, but he was present this week and you can just feel his energy whenever he's out there

But we will keep note of of his contract status his attendance I wouldn't be surprised if something gets worked out at some point Maybe before mandatory mini camp maybe before training camp, but certainly at some point before the start of next season Okay before we get to our next guy, I do want to mention that Max Brosmer took some reps today and he was in the red zone drill and threw back to back touchdowns. He does look like he gets the ball out now. We thought in rookie mini camp that Brosmer's arm looks pretty good.

And then next to J.J. McCarthy, you're like, maybe not quite as good as I thought. But he did look like he knew how to function in that situation and environment. That's what I noticed about rookie mini camp is that a lot of times the quarterback, sometimes they'll even bring in another quarterback, just to have someone who they know

will get the ball out to people. I think Brett Hundley was here one year, right? And Brosmer did a good job of it, and then the ball came out in this red zone drill and i'm sort of intrigued by that why that quarterback three type of uh situation i thought sam howell was better today than he was in the first uh ota but you know as we talked about that doesn't matter a whole lot jj mccarthy's not competing against anyone now we did ask so last week we briefly brought up

that Jalen Naylor looked more yoked, but sometimes we're far away from the field unless he walks right in front of us and we do a body fat test on him. It's like, I'm not sure. We asked Justin Jefferson, is Jalen Naylor more jacked to you? And he first laughed as if,

I think it's funny you guys noticed, he is clearly more jacked and he talked about that Jefferson did and confirmed that that is the case I have a theory about Jalen Naylor let's hear it my theory about Jalen Naylor is that he is one of those guys that was always so fast that they told him don't put on too much weight and that he was physically gifted enough to the point where he never really went all in on gaining muscle, getting that much bigger, and was just kind of doing the same thing

that he was doing in college for the first couple of years of his career. And it finally hit him, just so happened going into a contract year, you know, I might want to take up one of these workouts that these guys that are the best receivers in the game like Justin Jefferson are doing and that is my theory. And then there was the question of does someone look faster when they wear number one or are they actually faster when they wear number one? I think they look faster. I don't

think that they probably are faster. That doesn't make any sense, but it is just notable that Jalen Naylor. Probably should have been doing this before, but has reached the point where he's working to stay healthy and working to take his game to the next level. Another part of motivation might be yards after catch. He was not a yak guy last year, not a tackle break or anything like that.

He basically just had to be a deep thread. If he wants to be a more complete wide receiver, it's got to be a little more KJ Osborne beef to him. And it looks like he took that seriously. Yeah. And it's interesting because he switched from 83 to number one. And when you're wearing number 83 and you switch to number one, like my natural inclination, and it's clearly proven wrong, is that you're going to look skinnier just because one is like a skinny fast guy number. Well, he looks like Debo Samuel. Like, okay, I'm glad you said KJ Osborne because I've been saying Debo Samuel. It's probably too much. Debo Samuel is a truck. That's too much. Devo Samuel is a truck. That's too much. But KJ Osborne is a good comparison because that was a guy who had some beef to him and

who was never afraid to go over the middle because he knew he could withstand the hits that came in that area of the field. Justin Jefferson did kind of allude to that with Jalen Naylor. He said like, yeah, he played a lot last year. And I think he realized what you need to survive in the NFL. We'll see when they really go, like Jalen Naylor has always been among the fastest, if not the fastest guy on the team. If you were to just line them up and straight line speed test them,

I would assume he's still extremely fast with the weight he's put on, but we'll see when we, when he really starts to go full speed 11 on 11. Is there a difference in his speed? I would assume not very much because when you're blessed with that type of speed, it doesn't really leave you. But yeah, he is a much bigger person than he was six months ago. That could help him produce more on the field, stay on the field more, and going into a contract year.

We've talked about this with receivers now. If he performs well, he's going to make $15 million next year. He's not going to play for the Vikings if he performs well. That had to be at least some sort of the motivation going into this off season where it looks like he found the weight room for the first time in his life. Well, and as of right now, and this is not the bigger picture depth chart or anything, the unofficial depth chart will come out many months from now and then that will still be

unofficial. So it's not really until we actually play the games. But when we get to training camp, the rep counts will really tell us the story of what the depth chart is going to be. Not so much now, but as of this moment, there is no competition between Jalen Naylor and Ty Felton, none whatsoever. Not right now. There may be at some point, and we may see Felton start to work in, but as of this moment, Ty Felton is just learning how to play the game. It seems.

And Jalen Naylor is juicing up to and I don't mean that in a you know in a 1998 Mark Maguire way he's getting jacked up to go into a contract year two receivers on a very different spot in their careers and I took a closer look at Ty Felton I'm just going to throw out some random observations because those were the players we really wanted to focus on I wrote down Dallas Turner just because it was interesting that he and Van Ginkle and Grenard were on the field at the same time at one point in like a pass rushing scenario and I think we're going to see a lot of that but that was the only reason I wrote down Dallas Turner. He looks bigger too by the way. We mentioned that last week. He looks like he's really taken the offseason training seriously and understood that you're going to lose weight over the course of an NFL season, so you have to put

it on to start. So that was another thing that stood out to me. Yeah, no question about it. So just a couple other things that stood out to me was, oh, about Ty Felton. Some people had asked, like, can you take a closer look at Felton? So let me get in the weeds with you on my observation. I think what Felton's going to have to learn how to do to be a complete receiver in the NFL is get in and out of his brakes faster. So he is really, really fast, straight line. I mean, ridiculously fast for a guy his size. And I think we know from college when he gets the ball in his hands, he's really special. But what you see from the best wide receivers, including and especially Justin Jefferson,

this is always great too, because we can like, well, there's what the best looks like. So it's not quite that, is that they can get low on those brakes. And if you watch Jefferson, when he goes into his brakes out of those crazy long strides, he can tip his body to a crazy angle

and stay upright and full speed. It doesn't even make any sense. And of course, Addison is smaller. He's super nimble. That's where Felton's gonna have to improve. Naylor has had several years of doing this. So I don't think that there's a competition as of this moment between those two.

I keep noticing Ty Ingram Dawkins as a guy who is really large and that they've had in at some edge rusher spots mixing in they do a lot of mixing and matching and Zamiah Vaughn would be the deep deep deep on the roster guy that has stood out to me in both practices I think he had an interception and maybe rookie camp and then he was very good in the red zone drill I just he caught my eye well Sam Howell was out there I thought I just watched the wide receivers as

opposed to staring at the quarterback and I noticed Amaya Vaughn he's made some plays Jay Ward had a pass breakup as well and you know each week we kind of see a little bit more of Jay Ward so there you go there is the most complete breakdown and analysis of an OTA practice that is possible under the sun? Is there anything else you'd like to say, Dane? No. I mean, I think just to close the loop on JJ McCarthy is like, it's really important to see where he kind of goes from here because like we talked about the beginning, we've seen the ups, now we've seen the downs. I'm really

looking forward to mandatory mini camp where we get to see for three days in a row now, like a continuation of how did yesterday look compared to today and how will tomorrow look compared to yesterday. This was, we were back out, we think we were out here on Wednesday last week. So it's not like a lot of time has passed, but from Wednesday to Monday, we saw differences. There was also more practices in between. When mandatory minicamp rolls around, we'll see three days in a row and we will be right here to talk about it after he, however he performs on the field. But that's the next time we'll get to see him. So I'm really looking forward to that. And I'm sure everyone else is looking forward to that Everyone wants to know where this is going with JJ McCarthy

Look, we can't project what he's gonna look like in September We can just tell you what he looks like in the moment when we see it today worse than last week Who knows next week might be better than this week. So That's where we're at with JJ McCarthy. But I think to start and close the podcast, it had to be with JJ. Well, and shout out to the Twitter guy who puts out fake OTA stats. You're gonna have to adapt them. You're gonna have to add one more interception today. But I think there's at least 15 touchdowns that you can rack onto that as the league leader in OTA touchdowns and yards. Okay,

thanks everybody for watching slash listening. And like you said, we'll be back out here for mini camp and plenty of time to talk and then when they trade for Jalen Ramsey or acquire him there will be an emergency podcast maybe. Okay, thanks everybody. Football football. football football