Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How good are the Vikings right now?

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated talks with Matthew Coller about how many games the Vikings would win if the season started today and how much work they still have to do in order to be competitive https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. Joining me on the show, Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated. And Will, we have a lot to discuss. But I want to fire something at you right off the bat here. How good are the Minnesota Vikings right now? Because there's a lot still to be done. There is a trade-up that is presumably in our future.

There are other draft picks that they're going to have. There's other moves that they can make, but I want to know what you think of the roster as it stands as a large percentage of this roster with the most recent signing being Jonah Williams, their defensive tackle. A large percentage of this roster has been filled up in free agency and of course the quote bridge quarterback in Sam Darnold. So if Sam Darnold had to start today and play 17 games with this

roster, assuming a handful of other guys fill out the squad that aren't going to make a big difference, how good would they be? How many games would they win? I think they would probably win about six or seven, and that would be if Sam Darnold is the guy that they believe he can be after showing some flashes in Carolina in 2022 and taking the 500-level Kyle Shanahan football course last year. It's hard for me to say that a team that lost two of their four best players, I think the four best players last year are Kirk Cousins, Justin Jefferson, Christian Derrissaw, Daniil Hunter, in no order there.

Justin Jefferson's number one. But you lose two of those guys, it's going to be hard for me to say that you are a better team, even though I like what they've done so far. I really do. I like the broader picture of what they've done, and we can get into that, of finally just drawing a line with Kirk Cousins and saying, we're not going to give you three more guaranteed years. We're ready to start a new era and move on and try to change things up and maybe raise our ceiling here, even if we're lowering our floor in the immediate kind of window. So I like what they've done. I like what they did with the defensive signings, with Grenard and Cashman and Van Ginkle. I think all of those guys make a lot of sense

with what Kweisi D'Affamensa likes, guys in their mid-late 20s who still are kind of in the prime of their career. And then they got way better at running back with Aaron Jones, which doesn't not matter. I mean, you can talk about running backs all day and how much that really does matter. But if you watched the Vikings last year

and you watched Alexander Madison, I think you're going to have some appreciation for what Aaron Jones can do with the football, even at age 29. So I think that's a long way of saying I like what they've done this offseason. I can see the vision. I think this thing could be pretty exciting moving forward. But if Sam Darnold's starting all 17 games and you don he's just exhausted from the whole pre-draft process or something,

but it was not a through the roof praise. As we've heard from Kevin O'Connell at times with Kirk cousins, it was more like, well, you know, his last games in Carolina were not that bad. And his start in San Francisco, you could kind of see some of the improvement. And it was like a very forced amount of praise for Sam Darnold. And that makes a lot of sense.

This is a guy with a career quarterback rating under 80 at the moment. And look, Sean Hill had a rating for his career of like 86. So, I mean, it's not that impossible to get to that spot. So there isn't a whole lot of evidence from the past that Sam Darnold could be anything more than he already is. And yet there's still this feeling for me, Will, after watching Nick Mullins have mostly success when he wasn't throwing interceptions and just be wild and all over the place. And yet these receivers, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hawkinson,

I mean, these guys made that offense pretty competent and they actually put up points. And even at times with Josh Dobbs, they were able to do that as well. So I guess what I'm wondering is if Darnold were to start, because there is that scenario of the bridge year or six weeks or eight weeks from Darnold. What kind of confidence would we have that he's going to be a much better version than he has ever been before? I think you have to have some confidence in that. Just you brought up the Mullins thing and Mullins does have speaking of career passer ratings, I think it's like 88. So there's that, but also the interceptions, you really just can't get over. And I understand why the Vikings went out and got Darnold. I was

a little surprised that Sam Darnold got $10 million fully guaranteed after he signed for like four last year. And I guess the Shanahan experience is really valuable. Maybe they were bidding against like the Broncos or somebody else there. But if you're Sam Darnold, you have to be thrilled with this opportunity, even knowing after the trade with the Texans to get another first, this team's going to draft a quarterback. You still have to like, you have to be really excited about this because there's a good chance if that quarterback is 21 year old JJ McCarthy or even Drake May that they might not want to start that guy right away and this is going to be your chance to play in by far the best setup you've ever had excluding his his cup of tea last year when he got a chance to play for the 49ers but I mean you have

Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and TJ Hawkinson is not going to be ready for the start of the regular season, but two great offensive tackles. You have Kevin O'Connell in your ear as a play caller and as kind of the offensive designer. Like I think there's a real chance that Darnold could show more than he's ever shown before. And I don't know, I'm torn. And I was, I was grading all of their, their first big five for agency moves. And I gave the Darnold grade the lowest grade I gave to any of them just because he just has never – I need to see it. Like you've just never really seen it from him outside of tiny spurts here and there that suggest that he can be a quality NFL quarterback. With that said, though, I understand when looking at the landscape of what your quarterback options were, why you'd maybe take a shot on this guy who's still 27 years old, has the arm talent in theory that got him drafted third overall,

has a little bit of mobility. There's a world where it's a kind of a Baker Mayfield thing or a Geno Smith thing where he can put it together in the best circumstances he's ever had. Not every quarterback or just any player in any sport, their development isn't always going to be linear and happen right away the way you'd like it to. So this is kind of Darnold's maybe last stand is his best chance to prove it and to turn his career around. But it wouldn't surprise me if it happens. I don't think that means he's going to step in and throw for 4,000 yards and lead the Vikings to the playoffs, but I don't know. Nobody would have thought Baker was going to do that with

the Buccaneers last year either, so we'll see. Yeah, and with Darnold, I see, I looked at it a different way than you. I gave it a much higher grade because I looked at it like this is a guy who could play the whole season and it would not be a total calamity. Like if you had Nick Mullins playing a full season one, there's a good likelihood he gets hurt because Nick Mullins takes some serious hits when he's hanging out of the ball in the pocket. He's not that big of a guy. He could also throw about 35 interceptions if he played for an entire season. I think Mullins would have a chance to challenge the, I was at 2019 Jamis, 5,000 yards, 30 touchdowns, 30 picks. It's kind of what he was on base for last year. Yes. I mean, I honestly do think that that would be realistic to think that he could do that.

So you can't start that guy for an entire season unless you're trying to get Shadur Sanders next year, which I think we know the Vikings are not in that spot. They're in a spot where they're going to draft quarterback. But, you know, when I look at the most recent sample of Sam Darnold, it's not that bad. Like, and I mean, 2022 Carolina plus his start. And this is stretching a little bit, I'll admit,

but we're talking about what you could get right now out of this team. And four of his last seven starts in the NFL, going back to Carolina in 2022. And then San Francisco, he graded over a 70 by PFF. And again, that's not super exciting because Kirk Cousins regularly had season grades in the eighties. But at the same time, like at least there was progress shown by him from the time he

was with the jets to the end of the season in 2022, to the way that he started that singular game, which makes me think that seven to nine wins would be on the table. If Sam Darnold had to start the entire season, if we are projecting what he's going to do with these wide receivers. And I want to get to the run game and Aaron Jones, because we had a chance to listen to Aaron Jones talk. And he's a very impressive guy. And he talked about the energy that he brings. And you could feel it even with him in the room at a press conference. And that's worth a lot of points to have Aaron Jones. The Vikings have been at the bottom of the NFL and expected points added through the

running game. And we're talking about one of the best running backs of the last 10 years in the entire NFL. So even if he only gave you 14 games, but he played like he usually traditionally has, I mean, that is a massive, massive improvement. And plus you would expect that having him with Ty Chandler would help here. So,

you know, I think that I would counterbalance a little bit of, all right, Sam Darnold is probably not going to be anywhere near as good as Kirk cousins with the fact that you also have now a running game and a screen game that comes along with him and a blocking game for your quarterback that comes along with him that I think that there is a impact of a player like this that kind of permeates the entire offense. I agree. I think the Aaron Jones addition, even just on a one-year deal,

it's a big deal. I mean, to get him for $7 million, the way he finished the season last year with five consecutive 100-yard games, he put up three touchdowns on the Cowboys in the first round. He ran big against the 49ers the next round, a game they almost won. This is a big addition with what he can do just as a well-rounded player. He's been super efficient and explosive in the outside zone game. He's a great fit for what Kevin O'Connell wants to do there and kind of get to the edge and know when to cut it upfield, know when to bounce it, all these things.

He's career five yards per carry, and he was late last season averaging over five yards per carry in all those games, sometimes six or more yards per carry. And then catching the ball out of the backfield, doing things in pass protection, just kind of being a reliable veteran in that way, in the way that you didn't want to just project Ty Chandler into that role. And I loved what I saw from Ty Chandler down the stretch last year with the burst and all those things. But still a third-year player who there's some warts with pass protection, knowing where to be at all times. You're not going to have any of that with Aaron Jones.

The floor and the ceiling are both really high with a guy like that. Even if he starts to show some signs of not being 25 years old anymore. I think that's a big deal. The Vikings still need to figure out who their left guard is going to be. I know the fan base really wants Dalton Reisner back. I think that would be reasonable, but I also think you could maybe get better there because Dalton Reisner, he's a great dude to talk to in the locker room he is super fun to watch like run and hit people after plays and just contagious energy but he's an above average pass blocker and a below average run blocker and not really i don't know i i just i think the the perception of who he is doesn't

quite match kind of the reality of what you see when you're when you're watching back the game so they could maybe even get a little better there. I don't know how they're going to do that at this point. Cause it's all the good free agent guards are, are, got got paid this off season. Maybe you draft a guy. I don't know exactly what it'll be, but you figure out that left guard spot and then I think you feel okay about losing KJ Osborne with some of the drop issues that he had last year. He was, he was an important player for them the last few years,

but you bring back Brandon Powell, you add Trent Shurfield, maybe Jalen Naylor stays healthy and finally gives you something. I think the overall context of the offense might be better than it was last year, quarterback position aside, and the Aaron Jones signing is the big difference maker there. No, it certainly is. And this is, again, a stretch on a very small sample size of Sam Darnold. But in 2022, when he was running play action, he averaged 8.2 yards per attempt and graded

well above average by PFF. And this is something that if you have to play Sam Darnold, you're going to work a lot more off of that run game and play action for him to just try to make things easier. And I thought a lot of times during the last two years of Kirk, things were not made particularly easy on Kirk, where it was like, there's a lot of times where it's no play action, straight drop back in the shotgun, second and long, third and long. There was a lot of that because they did not have an effective running game. So I like the concept of bringing in a veteran running back that kind of

guarantees you a floor of that. As long as he stays healthy, that doesn't mean that he will though. And if he doesn't, then, you know, I think they still need to add somebody else there because I mean, if we're talking about Kenny Wong,

Wu Dwayne McBride, like I think that they still need another one of those kind of bounce around type of journeyman running backs, just in case Aaron Jones cannot stay completely healthy. Now you mentioned that wide receiver three spot. This is something that, you know, I think is important for them to go out and get somebody else still at that position. Do you think that if they were to run out Trent Shurfield, Brandon Powell, et cetera, Jalen Naylor, fourth round draft pick, is that enough for you? Because

it's not for me. I think you need another player there because whether it's Sam Darnold or rookie X, but if we're doing it in the context of how good are they right now, to me, that's a big hole from what they've had in the past. Even though KJ Osborne was not a top-notch wide receiver, he still was a quality NFL player that we've seen what happens before in the form of Laquan Treadwell, Kendall Wright, Tajay Sharp, throw Jordan Taylor in there, guys that they just sort of went out and got that didn't work out. And it leaves a real empty spot on that offense when teams can focus their attention more on Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. Yeah, I think in an ideal world, you would obviously like to have a quality wide receiver

three that I don't know that that player is necessarily on the roster right now. I think where that gets amplified is to start the season when you're not going to have TJ Hawkinson. Because normally if this offense is all healthy, TJ Hawkinson is the wide receiver three functionally or the wide receiver two even. So you have those big three targets. It's tough to take all of those guys away.

And then you still have some of the Josh Oliver looks and running back coming out of the backfield. And I think I like the Trent Shurfield addition as a little bit more than the vet minimum kind of guy. He had 400 yards with the Dolphins in 2022. Didn't play a ton with the Bills last year, but kind of a mix of run blocking speed. Like a K.J. Osborne, who's making about half as much this year, maybe isn't quite as good of a player, but, um, I think that's a solid pickup to me. It's if I'm choosing one area to add to, or two areas, even, I don't know that another wide receiver would be at the top of my priority

list right now. I think a guard would be up there, a left guard. And I think a lot of spots still on defense. Defensive tackle would probably be number one, even though they've added Jerry Tillery and Jonah Williams and brought back Jonathan Bullard. Defensive tackle will be up there. Cornerback would still be very high up there because they haven't done anything at that position, if I'm not mistaken. So wide receiver three wouldn't be super high up that list, but it's absolutely something I think they should consider using one of their, they have a ton of like fourth, fifth, sixth round picks. Take a shot on a guy there.

I don't think you have to go out and try to get somebody super proven. I think just add competition to the mix, whether it's Powell, Shurfield, Naylor, a rookie, you hope that somebody can emerge and be a kind of a reliable possession receiver crossing routes, do all those kinds of things for you. Folks. Have you ever heard of test driving a phone network? I did not make this up. It is an actual thing and us cellular is letting you test drive their

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like what what are we gonna do here folks you're not playing blake brandle there i don't think right or dan feeney the mustache guy that they just signed i don't you don't want to start him no no you do not uh and it might end up being that Dalton Reisner just comes back by default and it's not that they can't have a successful offense with Reisner. And if you're asking, which is more important for Sam Darnold or a rookie quarterback X to have the running effectiveness of one offensive lineman or a very good pass blocker, which he is and has proven that's okay. I mean, they may have reached the point where this is what they have to do because they really have no other options. Although Dalton Reisner proved last year that he will just wait and hold out for the entire

free agency. He said he doesn't want to do that again, but he doesn't sign. So it might happen again. I don't know. Well, that's, and I mean, last year he clearly misunderstood his market and maybe he also thought the Vikings might sign him earlier than they did. But I also feel like Dalton Reisner thinks that he's better than Dalton Reisner actually is. And so he looks at himself as, you know, am I an eight to $10 million a year guard? When I think that the rest of the league is more like, no, you're a $3 million guard. So we'll, we'll see what ends up happening there.

But we are talking about kind of a game of musical chairs with the guards where they're running out of seats as Kevin Zeitler signed with the Detroit lions. And now their offensive line is an absolute behemoth. So the Vikings were not able to jump into that market early and now kind of have to deal with what's left and hope to patch that hole. But I look at the wide receiver three as sort of a similar idea of what San Francisco has done for, for Brock Purdy and Jimmy Garoppolo, which is, do we have enough receivers? Yes. Add another one. It's sort of like, uh, sort of like me with the taco bar at TCO performance center. Have I had enough tacos? Yes, but I'm going to have one more because

it's very important to me. Uh, and it's really good. But I mean, if somebody goes down, think about this, like if Justin Jefferson tweets that hammy and is down for four weeks, now you are talking about Trent Shurfield as some, or Brandon Powell is having to step into that role. I don't like that idea. I like the idea of versatility. I like the idea of guys who could step into those spots. And even with KJ Osborne, I didn't think he was really up for that task. So I was looking at someone like DJ shark or Josh Reynolds or Hunter Renfro as guys who might be looking to kind of have like one breakout ish year that gets

them another contract because I just want the best case scenario for, for the quarterback, but let's switch over to the defensive side. So here, here's kind of a, a debate for you, I guess, is would you rather have Daniil Hunter or two of the three guys that they signed? Do you feel like they have gotten better the same in losing a really valuable player in Hunter and bringing in these three guys? Where do they stand on defense? If you say contracts aside, ages aside, 2024 season, do I want Daniil Hunter, DJ Wanham, and Jordan Hicks, or Jonathan Grenard, Andrew Van Ginkle, and Blake Cashman? I don't think that's that far apart. I

think you could talk yourself into either side of that. I think I might lean towards the Hunter side for the 2024 season, because I still think Jordan Hicks is a really good player. I think he's 31 years old, 32 years old now. I don't think DJ Wanham is a guy whose eight sacks in two of the last three seasons are representative of who he is, but that last year was clearly his best season. But the key factor is you're not just doing that. You're talking about, I got two or three years younger from Hunter to Grenard. I got two or three or four years younger, maybe five years younger from Jordan Hicks to Blake Cashman. And then Andrew Van Ginkle is older than DJ Juana, but I think is a much better fit for what Brian Flores wants to do because he's so versatile. I mean, Brian Flores knows Andrew Van Ginkle extremely well. He coached him the first three years in Miami. He knows it. This is a guy who

is a perfect chess piece for me because he can rush the passer and get six, seven sacks. He can defend the run. He can drop into coverage much, much more proficiently than somebody like DJ Wanham. So I think that's a great fit. I don't know. So basically, I could talk myself into either one for 2024. But when you consider the context of the ages and the contracts and the fact that this isn't just a, like we've seen the past few off seasons, all right, let's load up for this year. This is an off season with 2025 in mind. I really like what they did. I think you mentioned Aaron Jones having a presence at the press conferences. How about Jonathan Grenard? That dude was electric. I mean, you need your elite pass rushers to be a little

bit crazy. And I think Daniil Hunter had that in the way that he just didn't say anything and just went to work and lifted for six hours every day and was kind of a madman in that way. I think Grenard's just one of those talkative, boisterous guys who just has confidence oozing out of his veins. And I'm excited to watch him play because this guy had 12.5 sacks last year, really quick getoff, long arms. I think he's going to fit well and could be a guy, I think this is what the Vikings

are betting on that he's still ascending like that last year wasn't gonna be the best year of his career so I think that dude has a chance to be really impactful Blake Cashman a lot of these guys it's like they are coming off the best season of their career and I sometimes you're like are we chasing past production here but I think there's also signs with all of them that it could be something they can replicate. Blake Cashman had a great year against the run last year, playing under D'Amico Ryans and being put in a good situation and a good defense. And then Van Ginkle, just the versatility there like i think it's it's close if you want to try to if you want to tell me that you'd rather have daniel hunter for this year i'm not gonna i'm not gonna debate you too hard on that because he that dude is a stud but knowing that you were probably gonna lose him and not pay

him 50 million guaranteed over the next two years i think they did a really good job at pivoting. Yeah, I would easily take the current three over the three from last year. Because I think that defense is about your weaknesses and what you can't do. And with someone like DJ Wanham, and he did have his best season stepping into that role. But as far as their production goes, not anywhere close to Andrew Van Ginkle and Van Ginkle was more productive as a complete player. As you mentioned, the coverage, very effective blitzer, very versatile player doesn't really have a weakness as a player and can do a lot of different things where Wanham is not a down to down impact pass rusher and has his limitations, I think. And it was really reliant on Daniil Hunter.

And with Blake Cashman, I mean, when we're talking about Jordan Hicks, all the respect to Jordan Hicks, I think he had a good season last year. But his physical limitations at this point in his career do not really allow for much versatility, don't really allow for you to use him in man coverage type of situations so you always kind of had to be blitzing with Jordan Hicks or stuff in the run which he was really good at like old school linebacker stuff but Blake Ashman is really physically impressive and put up really good numbers as a coverage linebacker. And I think that Brian Flores can just use him in a lot of different ways.

So while there were these clear weaknesses to Wanham's game and Hicks' game, there are so much less so for Cashman and for Van Ginkle. And I know you can't pencil in another 12 and a half sacks for Jonathan Grenard. He is going to have life be a little more difficult on him, not playing across from Will Anderson, not quite, you know, getting those one-on-one matchups quite as much. But I also think like an ascending player who is still very much in his prime. So this isn't someone who had a pop-up season at 31 years old or something like this is the route that he's been on as he's come

along. So I think that he is a quality, quality edge rusher, but the other two had such weaknesses in Wanham and in Jordan Hicks that I think this kind of covers up for them and makes them even more of a versatile defense than they were before. Now, my question about the defense here is with Harrison Smith coming back, there is a trickle down to that that allows Josh Metellus to remain a chess piece type and play lots of different positions. But I still need to see what's next at corner before we can say that this defense will rank higher than last year's defense or be more effective than last year's defense.

Do you think that they are set there at cornerback or is there something else that you think needs to happen for them to improve? They, I hope they're not set at cornerback because just running it back with the same group last year would be a risky proposition to say the least. And I thought Byron Murphy jr had a, had a solid year in his first year with the Vikings. I think he's, you could even consider extending him because he's still like he's 26 years old or whatever. And that could actually lower his cap hit for 2024. But it's just beyond that. I don't trust the Caleb Evans to A, stay healthy

or B, be any form of consistent in his production. We've seen the flashes there, but it's just been kind of maddeningly up and down with him. You can't expect anything really from Andrew Booth Jr. Makai Blackman, I thought, had a fairly promising rookie season. I just don't know what his ceiling is as a kind of undersized guy who you probably don't want to play on the boundary against teams big number one or number two receivers all the time. So I really think they should continue to add there. The tough thing when this draft is going to be about getting a quarterback is you're sacrificing the opportunity

to get one of the top corners that we discussed for a while in the first round or one of those edge rushers or defensive tackles and really add kind of a foundational piece there. So assuming that they don't stay put and pick at 11 and 23, which I don't think you make that move if you're going to do that, although it's not impossible. But you're going to have to try to find some studs on day three, I guess, in this draft, or just kind of wait and maybe address it next year, even though you're also without a second round pick next year. You're going to get some of the comp picks. And I think that is actually an important context of the rest of this offseason is unless dalton reisner signs somewhere for at least three million which he

probably will um if the vikings don't bring him back you can't really sign anybody else for at least three million because you don't want to lose one of those two comp picks that you have penciled in right now for cousins and hunter so i don't think they're really going to be in on kind of the second wave free agents unless they lose Reisner and then you got one more guy who cancels out in that formula. There's guys who got released who don't factor into that. There's trade possibilities. The LeJarius Sneed thing I don't think is very likely. I know that would be fun because that dude is a baller. He's a playmaker. But you have to give up a lot to get him, which your draft

capital is already dwindling a little when you're talking about the move with the Texans and another trade up that we anticipate. And then you got to pay him a lot of money too, which like pay good players. I get that. But I don't know if that really fits into what Kweisi, Adolfo Mensah and Rob Brzezinski are planning on for the next few years of their salary cap. So we'll see. I don't, I guess that's, that's me saying, I think they should continue to add at corner. And I think they could really use a defensive tackle who has a higher floor and ceiling than Jerry Tillery, even if I understand taking a swing on him there. But I don't know exactly how they do that with the resources and with what's still out there this offseason. Yeah. And I think when it comes to the comp pick thing,

I know that people love that more than anything in this world is talking about the comp picks. And I've never really, I know you love it too. It's just, you know, I see that on Twitter all the time. It's like, okay. I wish the NFL would just put out the formula exactly.

So we could be sure, but we don't really know until they announce it next year, but they, they do have to factor that type of thing. But I think if you can make an impact player out of some move, then whatever. All right. If you lose that comp pick, that's fine because you can get the guy right now. It kind of depends on who you're talking about. And with LeJarius Sneed, I agree that when I first saw that rumor that they were interested in him, I thought, okay, this is what

they really need because they've got a bunch of guys who are just guys, but competent like Byron Murphy and Makai Blackman. They need a difference maker. They need a shutdown player for Brian Flores. They need what Xavier Howard was probably not the current version, but what he was, uh, they could wait until training camp or until just before camp to see who's left and see who might be desperate for a job. And we've played that game before with Bashad Breeland and Sheldon Richardson. And this is kind of like tying back into your original point, which is it's hard to project a team like this, that if it was having Sam Darnold start and had the holes on defense that weren't fixed and the lack of depth that they're

going to have because they didn't draft well on defense over the last couple of years it's hard to project them to win too many more games than they did last year somewhere in that seven to nine range i think would be a fair bar to set how much though in in you saying six or seven would weigh into what's happening in the NFC North. Like, give me your takeaway of what the Packers decided to do going out and getting Xavier McKinney, which is a big deal for them that we didn't talk much about letting go Jones, getting Josh Jacobs, I thought was a little bit questionable, but they're a team that looks like they can continue to play at a high level Detroit going out and getting a

guard to fix that or fill that spot after losing a guy there. I mean, that looks like a good team that's going to draft a wide receiver in a great receiver draft. And then Chicago, I think, was the real wild card for next year because you could see a number one overall pick coming in with that team and playing really well right away. Or you could see it being a total disaster right away because that's just what happens with rookies.

Yeah, it, the NFC North is part of, it's an important part of the context of this off season because it suddenly looks like, I mean, it wasn't long ago that as you're like, is this the worst division in football a couple of years ago? And now it has a chance to maybe be the best maybe not this year but maybe in 2025 I mean the Lions even with Jared Goff that looks like a sustainable thing with just the way that they've drafted for the last three years or whatever since since Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell arrived it's just been hit and hit and hit and we were we were clowning their draft last year for some of the positional value linebacker running back all these things and

you know what power to them it looks so far like it worked out pretty well and then yeah to go get kevin zeitler is an underrated move where okay we lost jonah jackson in free agency let's just plug in this former pro bowl stud um on a short-term deal who's going to help us contend. And then they went and got DJ Reader, who is a freaking beast, in the middle of the defensive line, which is a huge addition for them. It's very Dan Campbell to load up in the trenches. They do need another receiver. You lose DeAndre Swift.'s well actually deandre swift was in with philly he's now in chicago but the running back position whatever in in detroit they got jamir gibbs they're fine um i think part of the the context for the vikings is the bears are about to get

williams the packers have jordan love who just showed late last year that he is the guy. And I think that's pretty proven, if you can keep that up. To me, you have to really consider, and I like J.J. McCarthy, you have to really consider doing whatever it takes to get up into the top three and try to get Jadenden daniels or drake may and and really swing for the fences of being able to compete with those teams in the division i think the most likely outcome is that price is going to be too high and they go up to four or five and they get mccarthy and i think that people should be excited about that i know mccarthy is he's a polarizing prospect because you just see on the surface of his numbers at Michigan.

I think that dude, I'm in on it. I understand the arm talent and the athleticism from watching him a little bit and the intangibles and all those things. But with that said, the appeal of finding a way to go get Drake May and have a chance at that Justin Herbert, Josh Allen type of ceiling that you have to really consider whatever the price is almost making that move to stay to keep pace in a division that looks like it's going to be really tough for a while. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives, you also might not be using the right product. In either case, you want to check out Surfshark.

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that is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider all right let's dive into the quarterbacks in just a second but i have to ask this question since the main subject was how good would they be right now how good would they be if number 18 for the atlanta falcons was instead number eight for the minnesota vikings how many games would the vikings have won let's just even say that they would have messed with the salary cap like crazy and done all the same things so far aaron jones the defensive players lost to neil hunter everything is equal except for Kirk Cousins as the quarterback. How many wins would they have had? 10, 11 maybe.

I just, I think that would be, if you're telling me Kirk Cousins is gonna stay healthy and be at least close to the guy that we saw in that little stretch against the 49ers and Packers and um what he was what he was doing last October I think that team wins 10 or 11 games but uh does not win a Super Bowl or even come particularly close to doing that so I think they'd be good I think they'd be good. I think they'd be quite good, but I just don't think they would be on that 49ers, Eagles, Lions tier, which I think tells you a lot about why the Vikings made the decision that they did.

And I think with the weaknesses that they still have, I would put the ceiling at about 10 and the division that they're playing in just because how often has Kirk Cousins ever taken a team farther than that? And I did just have a little bit of a little bit of they're due for a little bit of bounce back in the one score games. It's going to be like every other year type of thing. Right. Right. Maybe a little more fumble luck early in the season. But I did laugh to myself a little bit. Mike Clay of ESPN, he puts out his projections and it's one of my favorite things to go look and

see what he thinks everybody's going to do next year or whatever team's going to do. And so I clicked on Atlanta and it's got them at 9.6 wins, the 12th most in the league. And I just thought, that is not us anymore, man. That's just not us. The world is wide open now. But speaking of which, the division may be a factor in how aggressive the Vikings want to try to be to try to get Drake May. And there are the McCarthy truthers who will tell you that he is every bit the prospect of these other guys. I don't personally see that. Uh, I think that Williams is in a tier of his own. And then I think Drake may is right behind him. This is just for me watching them and then Daniels.

And then there is a dip to where you get to McCarthy. Now that doesn't mean that McCarthy can't be the best quarterback in this draft, as we know historically. But I think if you're the Vikings, if you're going to go to all this effort to move on from Cousins, to draw the line in the sand, to make this trade with Houston, that your goal, whether you can get there or not, I don't know. But your goal has to be to try to get the first tier of prospect and not sort of the consolation prize. And again, I don't want to, I don't want to present McCarthy that way if he becomes a

Viking, because we know that this path has success in the NFL of the rookie quarterback contract and the team they could put around him elevates what I think his ceiling could be. But I still look at it as being a tier above for what Drake Mays potential could be. Do you look at it that way? Yeah, I'm in the same, the same boat as you. I think you do this and then you don't immediately turn around and make another move to go up to four. Um, because you have the goal of getting up to three or even two, maybe, and taking your guy, getting May or Daniels,

getting one of those top-tier potential just franchise-changing studs. And I think you also have the backup plan, where at the very least, Kweisi Adafomenta has talked to the Arizona Cardinals' Matiasen Ford at four and has a good idea that he's going to maybe be able to get up there and get McCarthy. Or maybe it's five with the Chargers, although that does leave the door open for the Giants to go up to four in theory if they don't love their Daniel Jones-Drew Locke quarterback room. But yeah, I'm the same way. If they don't love their Daniel Jones drew a lot quarterback room. But yeah, I'm the same way.

I don't want to like present JJ McCarthy as consolation prize. Cause you don't, I don't want like fans to be like, Oh, JJ McCarthy. Like that will still have been worth it. If they, if they land JJ McCarthy, it will still have been worth it because you're doing the rookie quarterback thing. You're taking a shot. You're trying it. You are getting a guy who has some tools, the physical tools with arm talent and mobility and the intangible stuff and toughness and all that. You're taking a shot on a rookie quarterback that you're going to be able to build the roster around him and put him in a great situation to succeed. And that will have been worth it if that's what happens.

But just Drake May, man, like watch some of the clips of what this guy can do outside of the pocket and throwing on the run and moving around. He is, to me, almost on the Caleb Williams tier when I watch him. And I'm not a professional quarterback evaluator. Williams is number one. But I don't understand the whole Daniels being now consensus number two over May. And I know Daniels had an amazing season Heisman winner, great deep ball, unreal, like almost Lamar Jackson esque athlete. But I don't know, to me, Drake may just checks off so many of the boxes for the recent prototype of quarterback that has succeeded

in the NFL, the Strouds and the Herberts and Allens. And I just, if you can find a way to go get him at number three, even if that means giving up two first this year and a first next year, and maybe even a tiny bit more than that, I think that will, I think that is absolutely worth just swinging for the fences on yeah i agree i mean as far as like ceilings and floors always get talked about probably too much because i don't think anyone would have thought brock purdy ceiling was an mvp caliber quarterback who could go to the super bowl i think his ceiling probably would have been presented as a ufl xfl type of level quarterback and you know, circumstance plays a big role in that

and how you adapt to your environment plays a big role in that. And we don't know how McCarthy, how May, how Caleb Williams and Daniels are going to adapt to their environment. But when I look at Drake May, I see things that need to be fixed the same way that things needed to be fixed

with Josh Allen and with Patrick Mahomes. But I always look at the highest end. I always look at the wow factor more than I look at the mistakes and try to nitpick away because no quarterback ever comes out as a complete product. So you're always going to have to work through problems with somebody, but what's the highest end. And with Drake may, there is a ton of wow factor that would make you go, all right, the highest end is very, very high. And I keep thinking that if Drake may played for Alabama, he would have been the national champion last year, or, you know, right. Or, you know, if he had played for Michigan, what that would have looked like that the guy was

saddled with a pretty bad team. And when you look at his numbers, some people, you would think that from some people that he was like a turnover machine and whatever else. And then you go, oh, wait, no, the guy only had a handful of turnover worthy plays all of last year. He just missed on some easy stuff, but that's something that you can fix. So I'm, I'm very much to the end of the idea of doing everything you can to get to that three spot. And you know what? If Kevin O'Connell likes McCarthy more than May and takes him at number three, then I would say, all right, great. Well, go with that guy.

Go with the guy he wants. And one thing that I don't want to do is I don't want to plant any flags with this quarterback class because I think that that's wrong to do. So when the Vikings signed Kirk Cousins and some people who are veteran listeners of the show will remember, uh, the old radio days, I planted the flag and said it wouldn't work.

And, uh, look, I'm not trying to say like, Oh, I was right. It didn't, it didn't work. What I'm saying is that, um, that was based on an NFL sample. And I watched the guy and I did the research on the guy. And I was like, I just don't think this is going to take them over the top. This is more of like a hoping to repeat everything from the year before and have it be better quarterback play. And it just never happened with Kirk Cousins. That doesn't mean he wasn't good. It just, I didn't think it was going to do what they thought it was going to do.

So I planted that flag. It created a lot of debates over the years and everything else, but quarterbacks in the draft are so random and how they turn out that I'm not doing that. Whoever they draft is the right pick. But I wanted to ask you something to wrap up the show because we have been doing this show together for four years on purple insider. And I remember, I think we really got started doing it with skull searching in 2020, where we were talking about the 2021 draft class, which has all gone bust at this point. But we thought when they were one in five, that they might tank and try to get Trevor Lawrence. And you remember the days of watching a BYU games late at night and trying to see what Zach Wilson

looked like. I w I want to hear from, from you will as somebody who grew up in Minnesota and we've been doing this for four years, we have covered together. I mean, as far as podcasting together goes, we have covered no playoff wins for the Vikings since purple insider began. It's been entirely Kirk cousins. It's been mostly running back the same idea over and over again. And it's been many,

many conversations between us about what they needed to do in the future, how they could get to this point. So reflect for me on that last week of seeing him go to Atlanta and the moves that they made and just what, what your feelings were during that time? Yeah, there was just a sense of, I think, relief and excitement. And, all right, we're not doing the same thing over again. And that is just a welcome change for me. Because, you know, I enjoyed having the great Kirk Cousins debate as much as the next guy. But it just gets tiresome and it gets repetitive and you're going over the same talking points and the same what ifs and,

oh, if you, if you put everything around him, let him cook. Like he's, he can get it done. And you know what? Kirk Cousins might have a great season in Atlanta this year, because I think he played really well last year. And I think he is the 12th best quarterback in the NFL or something like that and that is a valuable asset for a team to have I just am glad that it's going to be the Atlanta podcasters and beat writers and bloggers and everybody talking about it now and not us because we did it we did it for four years five I've I've covered the team since 2019 for five, we talked about Kirk Cousins and the October highlights and the peaks and the valleys and just all of the...-field stuff the last couple years was legitimately quite fun. Getting to see more of his personality, the Kirko chains and the Netflix show and all of these different things. It was a fun era, but it was also a maddening era.

And I am ready to be into a new era and discuss all of these possibilities of where this thing could go from here. And maybe the Vikings draft a quarterback and they flame out and they're doing it again in a couple of years. And guess what? That does not have to be a death knell for your franchise. There are a bunch of examples of that happening and you're still OK. The 49ers drafted Trey Lance and they were fine. And you know what? I know you can't always find Brock Purdy with the last pick of the draft, but there are other examples of that too. So you have to try it, I think.

That's just what we've been saying this for a few years now, I believe, that you have to try it and try something different and take a swing at it because guess what? If it works out, they are going to be so much closer to legitimate Super Bowl contention than they ever were at even the best points of the Kirk Cousins era. And so to me, that's exciting. It's fun. It's new. It's just a sense of relief

that we don't have to talk about the same thing for yet another year. I'm going to ask you a question. I don't have an answer on the top of my head. Maybe you do. Kirk Cousins, who does he compare to in sports? Because it could be football or anything. I'm trying to think about, like somebody who put up really great numbers and everyone recognized was very, very good at his job, but kind of had this fatal flaw of a lack of physical tools.

And also one thing that should be pointed out about the Kirk era is that he was a leader when they were winning. And we saw a lot of moments through the years when they were not winning, where he wanted nothing to do with all that. And that was the Kirk just works here thing when they were hitting Rocky times

and he did not take on that role. And that is part of his legacy. If you will, in Minnesota is that, you know, we blame Mike Zimmer, but look, we all know that Tom Brady owned that franchise in new England.

And when they ran into difficult times, it was on him to pull them out of it. Not the, Hey, I don't call the place. And, and even when they checked down on fourth and eight, it was, I don't know what else I was supposed to do. And it was sort of a, I'm't call the plays. And even when they checked down on fourth and eight, it was,

I don't know what else I was supposed to do. And it was sort of a, I'm separated from this. When they missed the playoffs in 2018, it's maybe next year, I'm separated from this. And he never really took ownership of that win-loss record during the years where they were struggling. And then when it was going well, well, now he's on Netflix. Now he's Kurt Cochran. Now he's out, forging those relationships with his teammates and stuff. And I, I thought, you know, I mean, that's how a lot of it works, right? When it comes to leadership and culture is, uh, when you're winning your culture is great.

And when you're not, it's not, but I think that that's a relevant part of him, but then again, so good at his job, like super accurate, really skilled. I guess I was thinking like a, like a Tracy McGrady type of basketball player who had just great numbers and was a star and people liked him and everything, but he would get to the playoffs and it just wasn't enough because the truly great players were there when he got to the playoffs. I don't know if, as I've been rambling, I was trying to give you time to think of. No, you have some of my brain was also going to the NBA because I've just been watching a ton of basketball recently and like Tracy McGrady is a good one. I was thinking like Paul George or like the high end would be like Carmelo Anthony. I that's I think that's disrespectful to Mello probably, even though he never won a title. But then I was also like, what about like Minnesota? What about like Carlnesota what about like carl anthony towns like he's extremely talented and he can put up big numbers but you don't want him to be the number one guy on a championship caliber team and i think

the wolves have learned that by making anthony edwards that guy um which by the way he absolutely just murdered someone last night. And it was insane. Unbelievable. Anyways, we're not talking about the Wolves here. But I think, yeah, like a basketball player who puts up big numbers, but isn't quite into that tier where they're going to be the guy to lead you all the way. It would be hard for me to think of like a baseball comparison or something, because that's such a different game where one player can only have so much

impact, but I don't know. And I think like historically in football, I come to, and this is going way back. Sorry. Like a Ken O'Brien who was like always a real good quarterback. It's a,

it's the eighties for the jets. I don't know who that is. Put up good numbers. He was drafted in like the early eighties. So, you know, it is what it good numbers he was drafted in like the early 80s so you know it is what it is but uh trent green would be another one that would be more your era of watching football where you always thought trent green was a really good quarterback but did you ever think he was a great quarterback and the answer is probably no so they're they're being the 12th best quarterback

in the league is probably the hardest place for anybody to be in existence because you're so much better than 99% of the people who have ever picked up a football. And yet there are guys who are aliens who can do things that you'll never be able to do. And the only way to get there is by having a complete team around you. And then you still need the guy to make plays like Brock Purdy. But I saw a PFF graphic the other day that listed the most expensive quarterbacks by average annual value for what they're making. And Kirk Cousins was between Patrick Mahomes

and Josh Allen. You can't win that way. You can't win that way when that guy is making that money. And that's what it always came down to. But I also think that the fatal flaws were so fatal that even if he was cheap, that they still would have had some of the same problems, but maybe that's, it's almost like I'm thinking of like my peak era of watching football,

like the late two thousands, early 2010s. Like it's almost like the Phillip rivers, Eli Manning kind of quarterback in an era where there was Brady and Breeze and Manning, Peyton Manning and and Roethlisberger and those kind of guys. And Eli Manning actually won two Super Bowls, which I think showed that if everything is right, that you can maybe get it done with that level of player. But that's a really tough thing to bank on, as as Philip Phillip rivers who never won a Superbowl found out. So I think just kind of in that tier where he is, he's clearly very good and you can win some games. And if maybe if everything broke perfectly,

you could do it, but it never happened in the six years here. And there's really nothing to suggest that it was going to suddenly happen this year or next year or something like that. You know, I was thinking of, cause I don't think of Eli as being similar. I mean, obviously he won the super bowls, but the physical skill, like a number one, overall pick six foot four, six foot five, you know, monster arm. Like these are the things that, and also a mentality that is totally different than Kirk cousins, which you have to have. The guy doesn't pin the ball up against

his helmet unless you throw it right. Like Mario Manningham doesn't make that catch down the sideline unless you throw it. So that's important to remember. And this is a guy who checked it down in that sort of big moment. But, you know, I think of like a Chad Pennington where everyone thinks Chad Pennington was

good. He was very accurate, but when push comes to shove, it's just not that next level. And, uh, that's where it feels like those types of quarterbacks get debated the most because you could see it, but it doesn't happen. So, uh, we don't have to debate it anymore. How about that? Well, what a time to be alive. Well, thanks for coming on, man. And, uh, you and I will absolutely connect more throughout the off season. And you know what?

Next year's raggets round tables during the season. I am really looking forward to those. I think we need to start like early in training camp, getting those regular raggets round tables going because it is going to be super fascinating. So thanks for your time and perspective, man. And we'll do it again soon.

Yeah. Thanks for having me as always.