Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How good was JJ McCarthy vs. Cowboys? Greenard out for the year (Part 2)

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about his All-22 tape takeaways from watching back the Vikings and Cowboys. Jonathan Greenard is out for the year. Then the round table with Brian Murphy and Manny Hill. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by FanDuel. Okay, so let me give you that FanDuel question of the day one more time, and then it'll be time for the round table. The Vikings Open is two and a half point favorites in New York. What needs to happen in a victory over the Giants to impress you about J.J. McCarthy? So it'll just take me a second here to bring in my friends, Brian Murphy and Manny Hill for the round table. And then we will have a very fun discussion.

Murph was in Dallas yesterday. And so he has a hardcore breakdown of the all 22 that he saw from the stands. Murph, what's going on, man? What's all took 22 again? Is that what the bill was? I wasn't just there yesterday. I got there Friday. I just landed about maybe 45 minutes ago.

So a little bit hot, a little foggy, but it was an enjoyable experience. And I kind of like what I saw on the field, what I saw of it. Okay. It sounds like you've got a story to tell there. So we'll get to that in a bit. Manny Hill, how are you this evening from my friend? I am quite well. I did not attend the game in Dallas.

I have watched it from the confines of my couch. Oh, well, so we'll get to that story in a little bit from, MRF. But how about we just begin with this, MRF? J.J. McCarthy's performance, what we were just discussing, as you guys popped in here, of how to contextualize it, because let me give the stat again, it's really worth saying multiple times that eight different teams this year have had their best offensive game against the Dallas Cowboys. They've only played 13 different teams, and eight of them have had their singular best game in terms of scoring. This is a team that gave up

400 passing yards to Russell Wilson, but I also don't think that we can just ignore the clear progress that J.J. McCarthy made. So how do you factor those two things together? And now Murph is muted. You all right, Murph? Sorry, I didn't unmute. I really don't care who he's playing. I don't care the defenses. I don't care how bad they are. I don't know how care how vulnerable they are. All it matters is what is he doing? Is he doing his job? Is he progressing. Is he looking more professional doing it? Do you feel better about it? Are there numbers ticking up? Are the passes looking better? Are the reeds looking sharper? Are the moments of being overwhelmed fewer and fewer from far between? Yeah, we can nitpick the defenses he's played

or the defenses he's been terrible against. It doesn't matter anymore. They're not going to the playoffs. He should roll the Giants next week. I'm not going to judge him any harsher if he throws for 180 against a terrible team as opposed to 250. I want to see what he's doing. Is he passing the eye test? Is he giving you confidence that he'll be here 12 years, 10 years, 7 years, and playing deep into January? That's all really I'm looking at. So I liked a lot of what I was able to watch on television at a game. I thought he made, you know, he dialed down his fastball a little when he needed to. And, you know, I've seen a few games in the press box, most on television.

When you're sort of in the stands in a place like Dallas, you're toggling between screen, everybody around you, what you're thinking, what you may glance at the field. Everybody, whether they were cowboy fans or Vikings fans, pretty much acknowledged as the game went along. McCarthy, you know, they weren't rooting for them per se, but they weren't ready to toss them onto the scrap heap because they were looking at what they saw was. solid football. So I take it, I crowdsource it a little bit too. And he looked like a guy that if he had been doing that, weeks one through seven, we, they'd be in the hunt. Yeah, I totally,

I totally agree with that. And the title of my article, I know you're going to write one heck of an epic about that day, but, uh, the title of my article was that the Vikings won because of J.J. McCarthy, uh, that's, this is the first time in his career where we can really say that. I mean, he played well against Detroit. They kind of won because. of Brian Flores, got a great special teams play, you know, that kind of thing, and he was good enough. They won in Chicago after he had gotten them behind by not playing very well. This was the first time where it was four quarters of excellent quarterback play, you know, against Washington, pretty much anybody wins that football game at quarterback, but this was four

quarters of excellent football. And my favorite part of the game, Manny, for J.J. McCarthy was Dallas goes up 2317. And I think there's a thought in my heart. head there's probably a thought in your head of here we go like here comes the interception here comes to try too hard the mistake and then Dallas scores and now you're talking about it being just kind of a mess of throwing and throwing and he comes through it and drives them the length of the field with a couple of explosive plays and gets them ahead 2423 I think that's one of his best moments of the entire season and it was on his shoulders it wasn't like they got some 50 yard run or some screen pass it was him making plays

to lead them down there and take the lead with a touchdown. That's something that we haven't really seen from J.J. McCarthy yet of being the guy like that. Yeah, I mean, he took command of the football of the football game. I mean, he really kind of took over. And I mean, and for context, when you think about if the Dallas Cowboys were going to win that game last night, it was going to be on the arm of Dak Prescott. So, you know, for J.J. McCarthy to step in and, you know, respond that way and and to really kind of recover for talking about really responding and

bouncing back and keeping the team in the game it's after that first possession where you get the early interception it's easy to think like okay the head's going to drop and he's you know we're screwed and you know now the the Vikings are probably going to get blown out blown out of that building but he recovered nicely the cowboys went down scored the touchdown to go up seven nothing and then you know he led them right down the field to tie things up so yeah i mean i think this this was the first time we saw him really have strong command of the huddle from start to finish and like you said make some plays make some big time throws and sure there were a couple of throws where you know he's overthrowing a guy or it missed or you know maybe it was a the throw

was a tad late and things like that. That stuff is, those are all like little things that we're going to hope to see him kind of clean up as he continues to get more experience. But I think for him to go out there and throw 250 yards. And look, I said for weeks, every Thursday when I was picking the schedule with you, I said the Dallas Cowboys, that game is going to be an opportunity for J.J. McCarthy to have kind of a breakout game and throw for a lot of yards and put up some good numbers.

and he was able to do that. He basically had the best game of his career. We're only talking about eight games here, but he had the best game of his career last night. And to Murph's point, I don't think it really matters that it was against a bad defense because he did what he was supposed to do.

If he didn't do that, we would be, I mean, it would be panic time if he wasn't able to do what he did last night. So I think he deserves a lot of credit for what he did. And I think now, not if they're going to get ready for the Giants, another lousy team. He's going to have another opportunity to do a lot of what he did last night. Yeah, I think that's an excellent point that if it had gone the opposite direction,

then it would have been much more telling if you can't perform against these two defenses. So it sort of the way I would think about it, Murph, is it advances us to the next stage of conversation about J.J. McCarthy. because after 4 and 8, after the game against the Green Bay Packers, we're in a spot where, you know, I mean, after the Seattle game, I'm starting the post game podcast with a mock draft. Like, I don't know. And I put it out there for fans, hey, send your ideas.

I'll grade them for next year. Send me your quarterback ideas. And still, Joe Burrow, we're going to keep talking about that. But it felt that dire. It really did. And what this has done, I feel like, is sort of regulated everything of, all right, well, now that we see this is what they envisioned, this is what they thought it could look like with J.J. McCarthy. It just took longer to get there. And now let's see if it can happen on a consistent basis. And then let's see what they can do to build on it.

But how far away do you feel like that conversation went from us, though? Like it's off the front page of what they're going to do for next year because what's on the front page is J.J. McCarthy having a great game. But is it we took the newspaper, rolled it up and threw it in the sewer because we never need to talk about that anymore or do we just- Absolutely not. Do we just put it in a desk and we might have to bring out a very, very soon? Like how far away are you from that discussion still be having? Oh, I think this, I mean, there may be even some bandages with raw wounds yet. I mean, nobody's fatally dying, but I think a laugh really scarcely.

a lot of people. I think that experience because it looks so bad, and it was statistically historically bad. It is a really, it's a really good reset. It's a really good sort, like you said, regulating. It sort of gets you where, unless he were hurt or weren't hurt, you know, he might have been there week two, three, five, six. And again, you're getting that kind of play. But don't forget, too, you know, not only was it mock draft time, but it was suffered a concussion. Can the guy stay healthy? I mean, it's his third injury. So that was in the mix as well. It's a great reset, great time to reset, because think about it, you know, they've got New York, which they should be able to handle. But now you have meaningful games at home against division

rivals, and you can make a mess of things there. And I get spoilers are not sexy. But it's what you have and it allows you it allows him to have big games or bigger moments not to get into the playoffs but maybe dagger somebody at home especially the packers that would give him a lot of street cred if he could play really well at home and shove the packers out of the postseason i mean you would you know hit at all the bars but point being you can but the sad part about that is you can't reset your season with eight losses there's no you know there's no perfect way to do that once you're out. And in a way, it bottomed out so bad that in a little bit now, the stress is off a little. Like, well, you're playing for pride. Yeah, you want him to develop. But, you know,

if they were to go to New York and lose, what are the consequences other than a bad week of bitching about it? What would the consequences truly be? Not much. Big thing for him, though, I don't care what he puts up next week. Avoid the letdown. That's also a learning experience for all young quarterbacks, avoid a letdown. Everybody on the planet is going to pick the Vikings to beat the giants. Somewhere could happen, it's the Meadowlands, weather, weirdness, avoid that. It doesn't matter if you throw up for $250,300, just avoid that, chalk up another win, and then tee up those last two home games,

which should be at least entertaining and compelling to watch. So is it still on your mind, Manny, what they're going to do for next year? a little bit still um but not nearly as concerned as i was you know two weeks ago after the packers game um because you know after that game happened it was you're kind of like where where is this going and and are they kind of stuck because you know they're not there's not really a lot of great options for you know the quarterback position to go in and i mean yeah i talked about you know mac jones a couple of weeks ago but really i mean what is that what is that really going to do for a team that is going to really be looking to have a bounce back year and you know they're going

to need to make the playoffs next year i think really um when you factor in just how much of a let down this season as a whole has been um they got to get back to the playoffs so you know i i think him play much better these last two games. And again, yeah, the context matters, considering who he was going up against. But seeing him perform like this against bad defenses lets us know that he is capable of doing this. I think the biggest thing is just he's going to have to continue to do it.

And again, like I said, he's got to have another chance to do this again against the New York Giants to even, you know, to even sort of stave off even more. more concern going into next year as far as the position is concerned. So there's going to be opportunities here for him to just kind of continue this and build in more momentum going into next year. And if he can continue to put together more good, strong performances

on these last three games, I think it's going to have a lot of people feeling really good about his progress and his growth. And that's going to bode well, I think, for everybody's confidence going into next year. So I don't know if you guys were backstage yet when I gave the stat about the playoffs. Just added up who's in the postseason this year and how many of these teams are doing it with quarterbacks that they drafted. And some of which they have paid these guys and some of which they have not. And they're on the rookie deals. And the answer was, as of right now, it's 10.

It could go as high as 12 out of 14 teams if Lamar Jackson makes it. And if Bryce Young and wow, Panthers, can't get over how they lost that game. But, you know, the point just being that most of the teams of the playoffs have done it with quarterbacks that they've drafted, some of which they've had to crawl over broken glass to get there, including like C.J. Stroud and some of the ups and downs that he's gone through, certainly Carolina in this mix with Bryce Young where they had to bench him at one point last year. The New England Patriots fired the coach, the Jacksonville Jaguroy. have fired numerous coaches in route to getting here.

Bo Nix last year had a game where he threw for 60 yards and they've had to fight through some of his ups and downs. There's a lot of this where guys have, you know, gotten coaches fired or struggled. The Josh Allen, it took three years for him to really get there. But still, it remains the best possible model to get yourself into the playoffs and be truly competitive. I mean, even when we look at these other quarterbacks who are, not on teams that originally drafted them, what's, what's the common thread here? Oh, it's Aaron

Rogers. He's one of the best ever. Oh, it's Sam Darnold, who's a number three overall pick. Oh, it's Baker Mayfield, who is a number one overall pick. It's Matthew Stafford, who is a number one overall pick. I mean, is, I don't know, there's probably not a legend available or a number one overall pick available. So what, what are you going to do? You're going to bring Kirk Cousins here? Like, Murph, I am fully on board with, as long as this thing over these last three games doesn't regress so violently that you have to bring in somebody else. Sure, have someone who's competition adjacent, like, have some veteran there that's better than Sam Howell, but this is the path that you chose and he's shown enough for you to stay on

that path. Yeah, and I don't think it could be understated, too. Like, as far as the veteran goes, just somebody who's played, somebody that can, you know, he can learn from through osmosis and sort of real world experiences. I mean, Max Brosmer is trying to be him. You know, he's trying to, he's not going to take his job, but he's trying to, you know, be a starter and he's trying to figure it out himself. He's not going to be much of a mentor. So, yeah, that would be helpful. But it just did seem like it backfired clearing the decks for him totally.

when you put that up against the fact that he barely played this preseason was injured last preseason and just, you know, sort of had a, we got to wait and see about him. And again, you know, the fourth quarter at Soldier Field really covered a multitude of sins with him because it gave people some false hope. I know Atlanta kind of was a slap in the face and then he's gone again. So then the season's all about Carson Wentz and being salvaged overseas. and it's been a, you know, what it's been since then. And so I just feel like, yeah, he could use a, yeah, the Vikings need to stick with this.

I mean, it was never really about pausing McCarthy aside. It was about, you know, level setting him as best as you could psychologically as much as, you know, mechanically and schematically. So, but there's three games still on the table. And again, you need to make these about, you know, stepping up and putting down an opponent, you should put down and doing it efficiently, if not largely. And also, you know, trying to ruin the postseason hopes of two division rivals, including your arch rival, both games on national television, I believe, is the last one on night still.

The last one, I think, is a noon game. But Christmas Day, yes, we'll be in front of Netflix survivors or not survivors, subscribers, subscribers everywhere. I mean, it's better than being in Charlotte in week 17, right? I mean, would you think, you know, of all, I know they're on the upswing or Tennessee. Could you imagine having a nothing opponent in a bad situation, you know, well, the Giants, but after them, is what I'm saying. I just wanted to see how your response to the moment of maybe to the biggest, loudest crowds of the season, just because it's the end of the season. It's Christmas.

It's the Packers. Right. And, I mean, it's kind of like, as far as the track, don't come apart against the Giants. My goodness, do not come apart against the Giants. because Washington just feeds your critics. Right. Right. Sloppy.

And right. And also if you can't string together three games in a row against three of the worst teams the entire NFL defensively, then what are we doing here? And then make things interesting over the last two games, even if you don't come out with wins. But like go toe to toe, like show that you can really battle those teams. I think that's fair. Now, Lone Wolf 189 says the last three games won't prove anything.

So I actually agree with this completely, Mr. Wolfe, because if Green Bay settled into a playoff spot, they might not even play starters. The Detroit defense is banged up and bad once again. They got, I mean, torched. And these other three are a laughing stock. And we have seen this many times in the NFL where a quarterback has a quick run of games. And then everyone gets convinced this happen would. Justin Fields at the end of, was it

2023 or 2022? We had a run of really good games, 23, I think. And Bears fans will still argue to this day that Justin Fields was great because they saw it in that little run of games. I was going through Christian Ponder's best hits in that

game at the end of 2012. He was fantastic. He also had a shootout with Tim Tebow, another guy to use an example of, where Tim Tebow had 149 rating against the 2011 11 Vikings like it happens in these small sample sizes manny but it's all we have to work with and if you get through this point at least you can make the case of all right they coached him

he had his horrible moments he had his better moments at the end of the season and now you can go forward with him uh and you have an argument to the rest of the team see he showed that we can win games with him he's going to go into the off season he's going to come back better. He's going to take another step. And then next year is kind of, you know, the big prove it year for J.J. McCarthy that we thought this year was going to be. Yeah, no question.

And like I said before, I think if he continues to play well these last three games, I think it gives if you're KOC, if you're crazy, if you're the Wolfs, if you're Vikings fans, if you're the rest of the team, if you're Justin Jefferson and some of these other players that figure to be back on the team in 2026,

if McCarthy plays continues to build off of what he's done these last two weeks yeah you're feeling really good about it but to your point by no means is that mean that he's arrived and this is the unquestionably the guy and now all of a sudden he he is it and they're going to win a bunch of Super Bowls with him there's still going to be a lot of growth development I mean for as well as he played last night I still saw a lot of throws where you could just tell yeah they still got to work on the mechanics a little bit that that that throwing motion is still you know the leg i know i know mbc kind of highlighted it too where they showed the leg whip and the sort of the elongated wind up um throwing motion and all that

stuff that stuff is still going to need to be corrected and cleaned up and then you can kind of see how that you know the work in the off season goes into 2026 but i i think the biggest thing is just going to be we want to see him continue to you know play well and again there's going to be opportunities here for him to be able to do that and if he does it then you're feeling pretty good but you're not 100% at least i'm not going to be 100% sold yet because i'm still going into next year i'm going to be looking for did those mechanics improve and change and you know all the little things the footwork and the leg is the leg whip going to go away and all those little things that can put him at a level that can really give this team a chance to compete for a Super Bowl,

that's stuff that we're still, I think, going to need to see going into next year before we just declare that. Yep, he's it. He's the guy. Obviously, he's going to be able to have an opportunity to do all those things next year. And we just got to see that growth continue. A couple of responses, Mariotta would make a lot of sense for the Vikings as a bad. He is a true backup, but also known as a great dude to have as a backup. You could in this environment, if they have a good defense again, you could probably win games if you needed to. My standard is always, can you win half of your games?

And I think with Mario da here, not in Washington, they probably could, but he's not going to compete with him really in a training camp. I think that's the point is, can McCarthy do enough? And he's made a big leap toward that in these last. couple games, can he do enough for them to be saying, we need a really good backup, but we don't need a starting quarterback for next year. And if it's the worst case scenario, and we have to bench McCarthy because it just all comes apart next year, this guy could keep us in a playoff race. I think Mario does fall into that category. Maybe, I mean, Daniel Jones, if he comes back with that Achilles injury, that's a long, that's a long one. So the one thing is we don't really know the

degree of the Achilles like there are there are numerous ways that could go i learned this from kirk actually there are numerous ways that could go there's like the oh my god Achilles then there's more like the oh that's pretty bad Achilles and those are the only two options but one of them is your career is threatened and the other one is like okay that's not great for you but you can come back and at least the timeline that's being presented is that he could be ready by camp so I'm thinking that it wasn't the full shredding, worst possible surgery. I'm not a doctor.

Anyway. How much of that would factor in like with his age too? Because he's still a relatively young guy. He's not, you know, I mean, Kirk was a little different because he was older. Daniel Jones is what, 28, 29,

something like that. And the way he played though, someone's starting him. Like that's the thing is that you're not, you're not bringing him here unless you feel like you need a starter. So if McCarthy goes, you know, two touchdowns at eight.

picks over the last three games and they go oh and three all the sudden then all right uh you're looking for a starter uh that's where you might have to make some sort of move but uh i don't anticipate that happening although sticks says dear god matthew truly hates j j mccarthy uh that's i don't know where that interpretation comes where does that possibly come from well here here's the thing he's 42nd out of 44 and quarterback rating after two good games that's not a hate don't think we can I don't think we could quite put the crown on his head just yet when he's played two of the worst teams in the league. But I also think we could say that it does matter. And you know who else it matters to fellas is it matters to Kevin O'Connell that he has gotten McCarthy to do a lot of the things that he talked about.

One thing I've noticed, guys, is that, and this is, there's an all 22 detail for you, Murph, is that you know what I'm talking about, right? with the ultimate. I do. Of course, I'm just making sure. Just seemed unclear earlier. He is not doing the thing where he like hop, skips in a jump up toward the line of scrimmage anymore.

Like we saw that a few times where he just all like ran himself into hits, you know, took way too many jumps and hitches. I've seen a lot of gains in terms of the decisions, the even the mechanics, some of the big errors that he was making have not been made. What do we make, though, of some of the things that O'Connell has said about J.J. McCarthy and just the way that he's navigated this entire thing this year, Murph, now to get to this point to still have a door open to potentially end up with a winning record, which would be kind of, I mean, a miracle considering where they were at at four and eight. But you know what? I don't want to put a crown on his head for beating Washington and Dallas either. So where are you at with O'Connell? and the O'Connell McCarthy dynamic.

Nine and eight never felt so great, right? Like that was the vibe walking out of there last night. Like, yeah, I guess that's great. But yeah, he needs to respond because the crowd's going to be there both days. You know, it's kind of like this is like the referendum, right, the last two old games. So I think he'll, you know, I think he'll navigate it fine. I think what's been interesting is I like the fact that he's poked and prodded at him a little bit and not, you know, I know there's a little bit of dust up here about this celebration.

You know, I'm not terribly offended. Maybe he could have waited until he got over the goal line. But beyond that, I mean, I just feel like he's trying to explain to people. He's trying to provide him some cover, you know, with using all the technical stuff. And I think it was somewhat educational, somewhat protective, you know, somewhat hollow when he was struggling so bad, you know, and it's like, why, you're stripping this down to everything. How did this slip through? how did you put so much on the line knowing he was coming out of an you know an offseason after

never playing you know it just felt like you know they they overestimated it and that was a really dangerous place to be where the vibe was a couple of weeks ago so they need to preserve that build on that and and again don't have the let down game as you said be competitive at all uh sticks says that it was in reference to me saying he can't prove himself the last three games it's just look, everything that we do here, this is why he can't prove, but he can shape what people think of them. No, that's for sure. But in terms of like, hey, he's a great quarterback now because he plays well in the last

three games, no. I mean, because everything we do, this is why Mandy and I are such good friends, everything we do here on the show in terms of analysis is based on history and based on what we've seen in research. And there are so many examples of small sample sizes throwing you off the scent. with quarterbacks that I, it doesn't mean I think that if he gets to the end of the year, it plays three great games that he stinks. It means I still don't know.

That's the point. And, you know, so it's, it's not about like, how nothing he could do could ever please me. It's more of like, no, we have to take the bigger picture, which even if it's three more games was not a great season overall. And as Murph mentioned, yeah, okay, it started happening after the pressure was completely off and you were out of the playoffs and you're playing terrible teams. we have to factor those things i will still not know but where i will be i will stay in the camp of this is your guy go with him develop him win next year with him so i don't know where the

hate fits into that but you know as i said earlier anytime you start calling anybody a hater i just shut down i i just think like you need to read a book but uh anyway uh your reaction um manny to just the way that KOC has worked his way through this season. Yeah, it's been, it's been kind of up and down. And I think there have been obviously moments where you could tell that KOC was being very protective of J.J. McCarthy. And you could also tell there were moments where KOC was very frustrated with J.J. McCarthy. And obviously, there were a lot of high expectations for this team to compete, go to the

playoffs try and win the division make some noise in the playoffs when you got there there was those expectations were there because of the moves that they made in the off season and because they said goodbye to a quarterback that won 14 games and had a great season for them last year because you you decided that McCarthy was the guy and it didn't go the way you plan for it to go and at times it looked horrible and so it was kind of an up and down I think a range of emotions and trying to sort of navigate through this for KOC. And I think these last couple of weeks, I think have been a good sign for him as a head coach

because now we're starting to see this quarterback kind of grow and improve a little bit here. And again, you just have to kind of hope that that kind of continues these last few weeks. And I think if that happens, I think it's going to show that, okay, that there's a possibility that this can actually work. And I think that that means that, you know, I think there's a lot of room for optimism going into next year. And I think KOC's kind of navigated sort of these peaks and valleys about as well as he could.

And I think if they finish the season strong, I think it's a, it's a shot. It further proves that this team can sort of over overcome some, you know, down points in earlier in a season. And I think that that bodes well for him as a head coach and for this quarterback and for this team going forward. So the KOC thing is extremely interesting to me because I think that there was a belief from him as the quarterback whisperer and the coach of the year who had taken Sam Darnold to New Heights. that he had a magic touch. And I know that, you know, everybody else said that about him, too. But as I've said many times, like, no one has a magic wand.

Like, the kid is going to be what the kid's going to be. And you can help them and your receivers can help them. But there's only so much you can do. And then it's on the person to step up and play football. But I think that it was a real shot to the gut at times to kind of realize, like, Just because I have the answers for what the kid needs to do to get to the next level doesn't mean that he's going to be able to do it just because I'm coaching it up in practice, coaching it up in OTAs, scheme in it up. I also think that it's probably been difficult for him to know that some of this stuff works really, really well when it's executed. I mean, we saw it last year, the downfield passing, which was successful yesterday, but when you can tell.

downfield passing. Yes. Well, you could tell, you could tell that the, like, the angst in his soul when he was describing the crossing route where Jefferson's wide open and McCarthy overthrows him. Like, you would just, you imagine KOC wanting to climb to the top to A and T&T, Jerry Dome Stadium and jump off after watching that. Just like, I've had enough.

Like, I drew up this incredible play versus this defense. And I think he's had to sort of come to terms with, like, at this point in J.J. McCarthy's career. He has to play a certain way for them to win enough games for everybody to say, all right, that was bad, but it wasn't as bad as it looked. And on to next year. And then, you know, you're trying to implement more parts of the offense. That was as, you know, these last two weeks as basic as you can kind of do it. Big personnel, play actions. Hey, chuck it deep or check it down, like that kind of thing. And I guess you could argue that, you know, he should have been doing that from the very beginning. But I think that when you saw training camp and when you saw

OTAs, it seemed like McCarthy was ready to do that, then it turns out that he's kind of not ready to do it. And you have to, you know, adapt some of that stuff on the fly. And I think that's been really hard for him to work his way through. Also, but the other thing is, too, when you get to four and eight, I mean, you're talking about, like, is my situation in jeopardy here when you get to four and eight? And these last two weeks, I think, have taken a lot of pressure off of him. And also they have been at least enough proof of all right you can dial it back you can take it down a notch you can kind of work to what he can do right now i guess the question for me murph though is like going into next season how is he going to approach that because you can't just play like this

all the time hey sure we got to hit five you know deep shots and then check down and then run the rest of the time in order to win. That's not really going to beat Jordan Love, Jared Goff, and Caleb Williams next year. Well, you're going to have to carve out specific things that needs. He needs to improve on game management, getting the plays in. That seems to be going a lot smoother now. His offensive line is blocked really well for him. You know, and he's responding to things and that he doesn't look like he's running into sacks or leaning into danger. These are growth signs. And I just feel like, you know, as we get through these two games and through the offseason,

maybe carve out what mechanically do we need to do? What do we need to work out in the meeting room so you can kind of connect the dots on what I'm trying to do or options I'm trying to give you in these kinds of situations? And what do you do if everything else fails and that's not possible? You know, those kinds, you know, that you can work on. I don't know how to organize football camps, but just, you know, this is what, just call it what it is.

This is his true learning season. We got robbed of that because he got hurt again a couple times. And these kind of games could have been weeks two through five. Like I said, you know, you're doing different things in Europe. You're not doing triage in Europe. And you're not, you know, you're just dealing with a lot of different issues in Wentz and Brozmer. And then it's the wheels came off. But at least, you know, and I give him credit, KOC specifically, for keeping the defense to have buy in.

I mean, they played well too. they've stepped up. It would have been a lot easier for them to check out as a unit. The offense had spleen and to do so that you knew they were going to step up and McCarthy was going to have to answer. The offensive line is answered. But at least they've stayed engaged and made it a, you know, it's pride.

And, you know, again, spoiler roll. It's not great, but, you know, there are stakes and it's home crowd. And, you know, the thing that's dangerous going into an off season, of course, is you take the last four weeks with no stakes other than looking good going into the break, you know, going into, to the offseason and think, well, that's going to solve everything, and it's going to be plug and play again in September. And I think maybe because, you know, at KLC kind of gave us that pre-packaged, hey, this is, don't worry about it. He didn't need to beat anybody out. He inherited the job. He got hurt. He gets it. It's him.

And then it blew up. So, like, maybe he can just temper it and say, you know, we're going to be basic. It might not be great for media coverage. Sorry, guys, but it might be a little more. We're not sure what we have yet he'll come up with something in the off season to say he's done all these things that have made him better but just you know let it play out a little more organically as opposed to setting up setting up the narrative right away you know yeah i mean i think that there's the way i would put it is there's degrees to everything that these last three games can impact there's degrees to which kevin o'connell feels like he could start putting the full offense in because you use the word triage like that that's how i would

described the last two weeks. I mean, really going back to the Chicago game with McCarthy of just trying to pair it down as much as he can and get him to get some confidence, get on point, move the ball enough, hit some explosives, that kind of thing. You can't play a 17 game season of just having your quarterback play like this. You just can't. Like, they're too good. The NFL's too good.

You can't just sort of window dressing play actions and, you know, a couple of screens and things like that and then hope for checkdowns or deep shots. Actually, it's sort of like what Philadelphia's offense is, which is not good enough when push comes to shove so many times. I want to get to a couple other things, but Mr. Hill, I want you to answer the Fandul question of the day, which is the Vikings Open as 2.5 point favorites in New York. What needs to happen for a victory over the very poor giants to impress you? What does it need to look like to say, you know what?

That was pretty, pretty good. I'm kind of envisioning what week one against the Giants look like last year. Yeah. I think something like that where, you know, it's not a, you know, a massive explosion on offense, but the quarterback does a good job of kind of controlling things. They get enough points on the board. The defense plays really well. and they just dominate and go in and and don't screw like to me it's it's like don't screw around

don't don't have this thing be you know 17 14 in the fourth quarter and you're trying to hope that jackson or james winston or whoever's playing quarterback for the giants right now honestly i haven't really been paying a lot of attention to the giants i haven't had a real reason to um but you know don't don't find yourself in that sort of a situation you know just Go into that and have a game similar to what you had against Washington two weeks ago. You know, not saying shut them out, but dominate that game to the point where, you know, your hand in the ball off in the fourth quarter and, you know, you've seen what you need to see out of JJ McCarthy for three and a half quarters or however long it is. And you feel really good and you're in complete control of that game from start to finish.

That's kind of what I'm looking for. Murph, before I ask you guys about some things at the, if you have something you want to say about that, that's fine. But before I ask you guys about some things that happened yesterday in the NFL, which this has been one of my favorite seasons, I think ever the way that it's played out. I want to hear about your trip, Murph. You went to Dallas. You're going to write an article about this. You were at the game and having a good time from what I understand. You've been a real trooper here fighting on through after the travel.

What was that experience like for you and Jerry Dome? I just, I think I tweeted it out too. It was like, I don't agree with Kaiser, so say. I think the greatest trick that devil ever pulled was convincing 20,000 people to buy standing room tickets to watch an NFL game on TV. I mean, that's what it was, because it is so packed, it is so layered. It's really just about being there, you know, it was really interesting. A lot of really diehard football fans.

It was an entertaining game. It was, I didn't think. it was that vibey but um it just so big it's so massive and i know i covered a game there about 10 years ago i just don't remember being that massive and just everything about it just felt too much but i mean it was just it was interesting because it was a lot of people were engaged in the mccarthy storyline either in viking's jerseys or cowboys jerseys and there was just a a lot of like dialed into this game even though the the cowboys you know basically vanished off the playoff map with the loss. So there wasn't a ton at stake. But it was, you know, that I would say if you're going to

go to a game, go there just for the circus-like nature of it. You know, it's very LA-like, but just on a, I don't know, only on a Jerry Jones level, I guess. Mani, this was one of my favorite Sundays. I decided not to travel once the Vikings got eliminated from the playoffs. Just thought, you know, we're going to have a combine. We're going to have some owners meetings in the Purple Insider budget could probably be better used there for some intriguing offseason stuff. But I really didn't regret being on the couch yesterday. Unreal day. I had Red Zone going and the games going on. The two games that I got to watch were Josh Allen versus Drake May, which Josh Allen is an absolute alien. And that game was unbelievable with this comeback. And then it was

Michael Parsons tearing his ACL. The Rams throttling the Detroit Lions, D.E. defense Carolina botching a game at the end in ways I've never seen a team botch a game like that. What a day? What was your favorite thing about watching football yesterday? It was definitely for me, I was really impressed with the Denver Broncos against the Packers yesterday. You know, Jordan Love has been playing so well. The Packers as a team have been playing really well. And obviously the Micah Parsons injury is a, that's a huge loss for them and what going to be able to do defensively. But I think to see Bo Nix perform the way that he did against,

even without Michael Parsons, still a pretty good Packers defense. And for them to be able to, you know, put some points on the board and get some, get some key stops on defense in situations where they really needed. I mean, that is a, the Packers scored 26 points, but that is, the Denver Broncos have a championship level defense. I mean, if that, that's a, that's a, that's a. defense that is legit that could legitimately carry them to the super bowl i think um and if they get what they got from bow nicks yesterday i mean that's a team that can i think that can win the

super bowl so uh i was really impressed by them you you mentioned the rams you know kind of shredding that lion's defense and and coming away with a win there i still think that's the best team um in the nFC and then we have to talk about philip rivers for a second here because I don't even know what I don't even know what to think about that because it's like I thought he was going to get killed honestly I thought I thought he was going to get knocked out of the game and this was going to be a joke but you know for him to kind of do enough for them to at least have a chance to win the game was mildly impressive when especially when he looks like he's in about as good as shape as I am yeah it was it was kind of You know, I wouldn't even say he played well, but it was just kind of impressive to see a guy basically come off of his couch and go into a game and have a decent chance at winning it in a hostile environment. That's a, we know historically, Seattle's a tough place to play.

And so for them to almost pull it off, I was kind of just surreal to see. So those are kind of my takeaways from yesterday. We lost Murph there for a second. Yeah, we lost Murph. I can't find Murph. We'll see if he pops back in. Let's see. He, oh, Murph had to, he had to bail. Okay. All right. Well, we'll finish it off with a big black block in the middle between us on the screen. Understandable, though, that he had to run there. But just to finish your point about Philip Rivers, I mean, Riley Leonard might have been a better choice, but that was also a defense that had, murdered Max Brosmer, and I'm sure that that factored in to the decision there.

I mean, Indy played their butts off. They played like crazy. But when I saw him in the uniform and everything, I was like, no, no, this is not, this is not right. Matt Ryan told a great story. There's a podcast they have CBS football has with like Steve Smith, a couple other people. And he talked about he's really good friends with Matthew Staff. and they were on vacation with their families together and Stafford needed to get some throws in. So he's like, hey, you know, come throw with me.

Matt Ryan let it rip a few times and then said he woke up the next day. It was in just agony because once you get out of that world, it's like, oh, Phil Rivers throws every day. Yeah, it didn't get hit by somebody every day. He doesn't, he doesn't throw the ball at the level of velocity. You have to throw it. And yet he should be extremely proud of the way he played. He gave them a chance to win.

their defense was fantastic. And I think that, you know, Seattle's offensive line is very clearly struggling. And when they have good pressure, we know this, you know, it's true for everybody. But, you know, Sam Darnold does get a little anxious in the pocket when the other team is pressuring. And I think that that was happening. Also, they have a great defensive coordinator, Lou Ann Rumo. He's really good. And I think changing coverages, changing the picture.

They did a lot of stuff to stay in that game. but Rivers didn't play well. It wasn't even remotely well. It was just he got out of it alive. He survived. He survived. It's a great accomplishment. Now maybe they could get Anthony Richardson back for the last two games or something.

I don't know because I don't know if they can really do that. But I do want to say that I'm going to stay with my Super Bowl pick, Bills and Rams in the Super Bowl. I just with Casey out of it, I don't, and as great as Denver's defense is, and they might have to go there. who's better than Josh Allen? Like nobody. And I think yesterday was a very clear, hey, Drake, may, you're great. And he played great. And they scored 31.

And that defense for Buffalo has got problems. They can't stop the run. And yet your quarterback's better than everybody else in the world. And that's the other thing, Mani. I think we need to say it. The best quarterback of the world is 17. It's not 15. And I know he tore his ACL and that's pouring salt on the wound. Mahomes hasn't been the best quarterback in the world, probably in three years. It's been Josh. Allen or Lamar Jackson last year, and maybe the year before that. But I, this is, to me, this reminds me of Peyton Manning, had a bunch of

playoff, close calls, screw ups, meltdowns, and then one year, it just all worked for him. And I think that's going to be this year for Josh Allen. Yeah, I, I've been saying it the last couple of years now with the Buffalo bills is like at some point, with a quarterback this great, it's got to, it's at, at At some point one of these years, it's just got to be your year where it just, everything sort of comes together for you at the right time. And it might be, maybe it is in some sort of unorthodox way like Peyton Manning Super Bowl run with the Colts was that year where it was the defense, you know, a defense that was really bad. Remember that Jaguars game like late in the year where they ran for like almost 400 yards and everybody's like, oh, the Colts defense, how are they going to do this?

They can't stop a nosebleed and all this other stuff. and then it ended up being the Colts defense that kind of carried them through that that playoff run at least that game that second round game in Baltimore and then they got some stops in the aFC title game to come back and win that game and going up against Rex Grossman and the Super Bowl kind of can help you out too but you know it it feels like if the bills are going to do it this is kind of the opportunity and you know again New England's had a great year Denver is a really good team I think the Charters are pretty good, you know, Baltimore, if they can get in, can maybe be a factor. But, you know, this does feel like if the bills are ever going to do this, you don't have Mahomes blocking you now. If they're going to do it, this is as good a chance, as good opportunity as ever for them to get it done. So, yeah, I'm with you. This is, this is a great chance for them. And this might actually be the year where it all comes together. Or this could just be the dumbest playoffs, and we end up with Jaguars bucks in the Super Bowl or something.

Roger would never allow it, but I feel like this is, this is a very strange year in the NFL. But, you know, Lamar Jackson had some moments yesterday where he looked a little bit more healthy. Their defense played well against Cincinnati. I mean, I wouldn't even completely count them out. What's going on in Monday night football right now? Pittsburgh's down three. enough. Oh, that team's, I mean, Baltimore makes that.

Then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, things are a little bit more intriguing there. So this is, this is, you and I talk about different seasons that shaped our lives growing up, 94, 98 different years where you just remember so many things that happened in those seasons. I feel like this is one of those years. How many teams are just really good, but we're not sure? I feel like the Rams are the only team that top to bottom could make an argument for being near perfect and then Devante Adams gets banged up and you're like, oh, but what happens if he's not 100%? Denver, you know, you're not sold still on the quarterback, but man, as he wins more

and more and more and plays better and you get more sold on that idea. And Trevor Lawrence is turning a corner with that offense, which looks really dangerous with Jacobi Myers now in there and they stopped, you know, once it's unfortunate, but like once their two receivers went out that they were trying to force the ball to all the time. Travis Hunter being one of them, they played a lot better and their defense is unreal. Drake May certainly made his case yesterday going toe to toe. The Chargers, I'm not as sold on,

but the bills are a six seed. They could win the Super Bowl from the six seed. And would you be shocked if the Texans went through the playoffs with that defense? I mean, there's an argument for almost everybody. Chicago has certainly stepped up recently. Philly is the one you feel like just cannot get through the postseason. Tampa Bay probably can't. Seattle probably can't, but this Thursday, they play the Rams.

And if they beat the Rams, it's going to be a whole different conversation about Sam Darnold than Seattle. So there's so much competition left to go, which makes me feel like sad that we're not covering that I'm not in one of these cities because the drama is just absolutely fantastic. Yeah, it's kind of like I look back in, you know, quarterback aside. It's like, man, the Vikings could have had a year this year like they had last year and they were right in the mix of these NFC seatings of the playoffs and everything. How intriguing would this, would this actually be? Because even when you look at last year, the Vikings had a great season last year, but even if they had gotten past the Rams in that wildcard game,

it's like they're probably going to Philadelphia and that probably wouldn't have gone very, well for them because the Eagles were just last year, it's just so much better than really everybody else, maybe except the Rams. I mean, the Rams really kind of push them, but, you know, in Detroit was just so banged up on defense. But this

year, it's kind of, you know, the Rams are kind of that team in the NFC, but everybody else feels like, man, if you get in, you got a shot to maybe go win a game or two and get to the NFC title game. And then maybe if you're matched up with the

Rams on any given Sunday afternoon in Los Angeles, something might flip your way and you might end up being in the Super Bowl if you're like the Chicago Bears if Caleb Williams plays really well or Seattle if Sam Darno gets hot. So, yeah, I mean, this is, I think in both conferences, I think we're going to see a lot of really intriguing matchups and a lot of fun. I feel like somebody is going to, when one of these conferences,

is somebody is going to go on a deep run at least to a conference title game where you're going to be like, wow, look at this team going on. Kind of like what the Bengals did in 2021, where they, you know, they were a good team, but then like they found themselves in the AFC title game. And then they're in overtime in that AMC title game at Arrowhead Stadium with a legitimate chance to win. And, of course, they ended up winning it and going out of the Super Bowl. So I feel like there's a strong possibility of seeing something like that.

similar to that in either conference and I'm just I'm excited man as things heat up here these last couple of weeks this is going to be fun as Bart Scott once said can't wait and that's how I feel about these playoffs just cannot wait yesterday I was very excited about football yesterday very excited about football every day but the way that things played out with as much drama and as much the game changing results game changing injuries and that's the I might have put Green Bay right up in there. I don't know now if they could win without Mike Parsons. He makes such a difference. But Denver does have a feel of a Philadelphia. You know, if they have

home field advantage and you got to go there and, you know, Knicks is playing well. Like there's, there's so many teams you could make a good case for. Sounds like a show after the Vikings are, you know, done with their season. So, excuse me, Manny Hill. I appreciate Brian Murphy also off right off the plane. Like he got off the plane from Dallas, ran home, got his stuff set up. And then we did the show. So I appreciate him and all of you watching slash listening great stuff from everybody tonight with the responses and we will have a fun week, Jeremiah Searle's coming up, going to have a show

with Dane Mizatani, Emily Liker from the Minnesota Star Tribune is going to pop in. So, you know, a lot of different opinions and thoughts on the show this week. So thank you again, Manny. I will see you on Thursday night to pick the schedule, which is three more games. But what a journey that's been. thank you, sir, and we'll talk to y'all later. Football. Football.