Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How good was JJ McCarthy's game against the Commanders??? (Part 2)

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about watching the All-22 tape and looking at the advanced numbers. Observations about KOC's gameplan and what it means in the bigger picture. Brian Murphy joins in Hour 2. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by FanDuel. One more reminder, we'll get to Brian Murphy here. We'll continue to answer your questions and comments. Of the Fandul question of the day, the Dallas Cowboys opened to six and a half point favorites over the Minnesota Vikings for Sunday's game. Did the Vikings performance against Washington make you think that they can beat Dallas and what does McCarthy have to do to convince you that he is the guy?

So let me bring in Brian Murphy. We're not going to have our usual roundtable today. Mani is out, but Murph is in. So we'll get him in in just a second. We'll get more answers to your thoughts there and questions and comments. Continue to be welcome here for the second hour. Murph, you are now on if you can hear me. Murf, you're looking down.

It doesn't seem like you can hear me. Maybe Murph can't hear me. Murph, can you hear me? Oh, hold on. Okay, Murph, you got me now? Yeah. There you go. Okay.

Yep, yep, we're on. We're on, we're on, Murph. How are we doing? That was, that was my bad. Good evening. How are we going? I'm unmuted and good. Okay.

All right. Well, the natural discussion here for tonight is how much we make of what we saw from J.J. McCarthy. And I will tell you the truth. I have been like a pin ping pong ball bouncing back and forth on both sides of this net. Because after watching the film back, I thought if I was Dan Quinn, I would quit because the defensive effort and performance was so poor. And at the same time, I thought McCarthy made good decisions. He made them fast. And he was accurate in making those decisions. And I don't want to take away from that and pretend that that did not happen because that's what we've been looking for. So where do you stand, my friend?

I thought it was a good, you know, tourniquet type game. It had to happen. I mean, it was either going to be so bad losing to a terrible team that the building was going to erupt at the first incomplete pass that McCarthy threw or the first three and out that they suffered. So the fact that they actually turned that possibility on its head with a very crisp methodical drive down the field that gave McCarthy some confidence, you know, some uncomplicated throws to make, which he made well. The running game looked great, the offensive line, all five, five strong, just bullied a bad team. And I wasn't sure they were going to win, let alone roll up a 31 donut. But it was a snapshot both defensively and offensively and McCarthy of what might have been. I mean,

if you had all of that in a Tupperware package and you can unpack that week after week, I'm guessing they could get 10 wins out of that. Alas, that's not where they're at. But it was it was Kevin O'Connell acknowledging where they were, both as a team and where McCarthy was as a developing quarterback to refine his approach, simplify, dumb down, or just remove inventory, however you want to coin the phrase. They got McCarthy out of his head. They got all the gears turning nicely on a team that we thought was going to be tough in the middle, tough on the line, offensively and defensively, a one-two punch on the running game.

you have enough players making enough plays at critical moments, third downs were converted and not given up, and they won the turnover battle. I think that's going to be a successful formula against most teams. They wouldn't have rolled up 31 donut on Green Bay or the Rams, I think that's safe to say, but this was the right kind of performance at the absolute most critical time in the big picture, not so much 2025, but even in the short term. I mean, that building would have been really a bad scene yesterday if you had a Seattle slash Green Bay performance. And if anything, it just allows everybody to take a breath and hit the reset button, which of course we said after they won in

Detroit, and which, of course, we said after JJ led that comeback against Chicago in week one, you know, it was, oh, yeah, it was pretty ugly, but boy, look at that Moxie. And it just, it's never been consistently built upon week after week. And I think this might be the best foundation of four-quarter play they've had. It's certainly the best four-quarter play that he's had because that was part of the, I think, you know, analysis of the Chicago win was, okay. It was a single quarter where he played well. And even with Detroit, there were some clutch moments and there was a good start to the game.

But at the end of the day, he ended up with 143 yards. And it was a close game where you would expect the quarter of. to be throwing a lot more successfully than that, even in a very good win overall for the team. But this game, he started out really, really well, took them on a 12 play drive where he hit some clutch passes on third down, really good stuff there. Decision making was precise throughout the game, did not have a turnover worthy play, gets into the end zone on fourth down on a really nice read from him and just a quick release and good eyes and feet, if you will.

So there were a lot of things that I think are improvements greatly. But as you said, these things with game to game so often we sort of treat it as the new truth when it really is just a, I don't know, math person tell me what one divided by seven is, but it's just a small percentage of the total picture so far and a small percentage of the total picture we're going to see. So if you go to Dallas, which is a very bad defense, and I don't think anywhere near as hard of a place to play as it once was, and you can't perform at a similar level and play.

Now, Dallas is going to score. So you're going to have to play a different game script than this. But if you can't carry it over for the next two weeks, and my goodness, I mean, you should go to New York and win that game by 30 easily. This should look just like it did against Washington. If it doesn't, I think that would be more. telling than if it does. If it does, we're going to say, okay, those are three of the worst defenses in the NFL.

I bet you wish you faced them earlier this year as opposed to Green Bay. But at the same time, you know, we can only, you know, factor. We have to factor how poor those defenses are. If he struggles against bad defenses, then you're, you're throwing your hands up and going, okay, it really was a one-week blip against Washington. Yeah, and it wasn't that prolific. I mean, what did he throw for 163 yards or 170? I mean, I think I texted you last night.

If you could tell me which was the game that he crested 200 yards because in his successful outings, they all are in that 150 to 180 yard range. He's found his tight ends. He found three of them yesterday to get into the end zone. You know, he's not finding Jefferson. And that's going to be a lingering storyline. And I don't think it's, you know, Jefferson runs complicated downfield route. that either McCarthy isn't seeing or is too tentative to hit.

You could tell me more, you watch the All-22. But it feels like, you know, O'Connell is putting him not in a box, but in a safe place, and allowing him to gain the confidence and hit the spots that he needs in 10 to 12-yard chunks, even though Sam Darnold and Kirk Cousins were routinely hitting Justin Jefferson on 40, 50, 60-yard chunks in the air, let alone yards after catch. I that's going to be another one of those how are they going to it's not integrating Jefferson he's already been here it's how are they going to link the two together he's you know McCarthy seems to

have found chemistry with jalen Naylor and jordan addison even t jockinson's gotten more into the mix lately but it's still lacking with with with Jefferson and that's obviously for for the long term success of him and the club that needs to that needs to be successful marriage So there's going to be some way, we're going to have to find ways to analyze how they're getting Jefferson open or if he's getting open in shorter routes that McCarthy can hit him just so we can get the ball. The only time he's been able to get him in the ball is when he's hitting him on those, what do they call that when they stack the three up at the line, he catches the ball behind the line of scrimmage and he seems to be attacked right away. That's happened the last couple of weeks. So he hasn't been able to get free. So that's what I really want to be paying attention to.

but otherwise, yeah, is he going to be able to put together a 300-yard game? You know, you don't want to see him throwing 45 times from behind. If they're up like they were yesterday, the running game is going to be unleashed, the ground control, the clock control, and there's not going to be a need to, you know, take off the top of the defense, but we still need to see that from him. And I think if he can continually stack, what did he say yesterday, stack positive plays together. you're going to see some downfield shots at a certain point.

Because, again, yesterday was a must win in the sense that they had to get right and had to look competent and had to be in a position where the next four weeks weren't necessarily a death march, but were a way to analyze and figure out who can be valuable next season, what are we going to be able to do with this payroll, what kind of competition are we going to want to bring in for McCarthy? That's what the next four weeks are. a loss yesterday, and we're talking about job security for a lot of people. And an ugly loss, you know, we could have been having press conferences at some point. So at the very least, I want to see him build upon that because NFL quarterbacks do have to throw for 300 yards here and there to be successful. Bubble screens was the. Bubble screens.

Yes. The bubble screen. So this is truth, but harsh from Adrienne says, praising JJ yesterday for playing mediocre says a lot about how bad he's really been. So I would not describe it as mediocre. I mean, I thought he played very well overall. I think that the sentiment is fair that even throwing, what, 16 completions, I mean, if you look around the league, it has been a tough year for quarterbacks.

But, I mean, you know, there was some performances this week. Joe Burrow, you know, goes for 284 and four touchdowns. you know, Josh Allen, 21 and three touchdowns. Matthew Stafford goes 22 for 31, 21, 281, three touchdowns, and a blowout win against the bad team. Sam Darnold, 20 completions, three touchdowns. I mean, yeah, like... We've all played more than seven games, correct me if I'm wrong.

Right, yeah, yeah. I mean, but the point is that it's not a breathtaking performance. I mean, I totally agree with that. But I would say that if you're looking for certain things that need to happen, the non-negotiables, as Kevin O'Connell calls them, there were a lot of those yesterday. There were smart decisions. There were throws that were not in harm's way

when some things were going wrong. There were very few risks into traffic over the middle of the field. He kind of kept the ball a lot to the outsides, a lot of throws that were right there, and scrambled a couple of times, made some really nice plays with his legs. his scramble.

There's a nice block by C.J. Hamm in there. A scramble out of the end zone gets that drive going. Kevin O'Connell brought that up today. And I think that was a really nice play to use his legs. But it was all quarterback in a box stuff. I think that that's what you're talking about when you say mediocre is like obviously the numbers and the performance, like the completion percentage, the lack of turnovers, the touchdown passes, like those are all really good.

But was it like a complete? hey, this is a back and forth game that you could have won against anybody on this day by playing quarterback like that. No, this is how you protect a young quarterback against a really bad team and basically say, don't give this game away because we're going to win it almost no matter what with the way Washington was playing offensively. And that is a really easy place to play quarterback in the NFL. It is a very easy place to play when you have a lead and the other team cannot score and looks like it has no chance of ever scoring, which was how Washington was yesterday.

But I would say, Murf, that if KOC can take anything away from this game in particular, I think it's, I think it's twofold. One, maybe three. How many folds do I get? I'll give you three. I want three. I'm folding three times, okay? Letter size.

The first fold is that you absolutely can keep running. Like there's no rules against this. there's no laws if it's never have been keep keep running if if that's what your quarterback needs to put him in a position to be most confident keep running uh the other thing was that mccarthy probably won't learn the touch pass this year so you have to create lanes and windows for him to just throw rockets and and they did that they they really use those areas of the field where he could wind up and whip it as fast as he possibly could and it's going to reach those guys without breaking their fingers and, uh, and crushing them. And, uh, I think the other part was just being able to like,

not have so much before the snap. That was another thing that I felt like was happening. I don't know the calls. I don't know all the checks. It didn't seem like Murph. There were many times where he was going change this play, change that, move that guy over there. He wasn't running an orchestra up there, which is what it looked like sometimes. It was like one guy goes in motion. They snap the ball. I, I thought, those three folded things together made for KOC, keep doing that the rest of the way and get the kid to learn how to play quarterback at the basic level before he has to take on the advance level. If you guys have been wearing hats or trying different haircuts in order to

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slash purple insider. That is hymns.com slash purple insider for your free online visit hymns.com slash purple insider. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxide and finesteride. Featured products include compound drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Which begs the question. Why couldn't have happened against Atlanta in week two. You know, had that game, especially as bad as Atlanta looks. I mean, you know, it sets a bad tone coming off the big win.

Your first home game of the season, you lay an egg, and it would be a harbinger of things to come at home. And it just, you've sensed that these kinds of, what did you call it, ready-made, box dinner kind of performances. I mean, it's not, yeah, it's not a five-course meal that you're enjoying at Barry Steakhouse in Vegas or anything, Collar, for that. throwback reference. I'm saying, you know, it gets the job done. But what job are you looking for? Yesterday, they were just looking to survive and not bleed to death on the field in front of their home crowd, which is what a lot of people were looking for. I think a lot of people probably came to that game. If not hoping for it, ready for it. And they were in the right mood for it. It was kind of a subdued place. I don't know if they knew what to do with sort of a opening drive

and competent quarterback play and suddenly it's 31-0. It didn't have the vibe of a, you know, this is them ragged on. It didn't have the vibe of Cincinnati in week three. So because of all that's been already left on the table. So yeah, no, I would not want to go into battle against the L.A. Rams in a wildcar game with that performance in my back pocket

because you're going to run out of the building. We know that. But for what they needed yesterday and for what McCarthy needs going forward, it was as good as you're probably going to get under the circumstances. We need to demand more from him. He's going to demand more from himself. O'Connell's going to demand more from him. But right now, we are at the baby step phase because there's really nothing to run for.

Running toward the playoffs is over. So this is all about making sure he's making the right reads at the right time, getting the protection, gaining confidence. And now he gets to go into a week of preparation, probably a little looser, a little bit less of the weight of the world on his shoulders, healthy. I guess we came out of Monday's press conference without a surprise injury to sideline him, which is a moral victory in and of itself. So here we are, baby steps, progress. I would never settle for what we saw yesterday. I would always demand more.

but at that moment at that time he's where he needs to be he needed to be there a year ago or eight weeks ago but that's where we are we're here now he still only has seven games under his belt he still has a trajectory or at least expectations on a trajectory that we need to hold him accountable to uh this is a start back climbing out of that hole uh car ramrod says am i crazy to say that if JJ had played like this all year, they'd be 8 and 5 or 9 and 4. No, you're not, but the issue is that you don't play the commanders all year. You don't play with an instant 14 point lead all year.

In order to be a complete quarterback, you have to be able to play the Atlanta game and find a way to win that game because the defense had held on for dear life after getting steamrolled early on the ground and gave you a chance to win it. they were sending all sorts of different blitzes. You're missing an offensive lineman, and you can make those excuses like, oh, well, that was going on and that was going on. But if you're a franchise quarterback, you still have to find ways to win. Now, there are levels to that.

Every receiver dropped every pass for Patrick Mahomes last night, who played a great game and had his guys drop and passes left and right and ends up with a couple interceptions that hit people. Okay, yeah, there's levels to that, but you have to find some wins. can't just be a perfect like yesterday was perfect storm perfect environment you'll never have it easier in your life to play quarterback than that so when those things are not there when the team's blitzes are working when the coverages are not super obvious and the guys are playing 50 yards off and they're actually pressing your wide receivers and you know and you're not winning

and you have to come back in a game it's like we saw against baltimore where, you know, the game's close. Baltimore gets ahead because of a special team's mistake. You don't, you can't just go out. It's over and I'm just going to throw the ball over 50 miles over people's heads and complete 40% of my passes like that. That can't be the case because every game doesn't just get laid out for you like that. So yes, it would be wonderful if they were able to play that way all season long.

And I mean, you know, maybe if the defense was healthier, you could have gotten a little bit more shades of that. But you usually just can't win a lot in that way in the NFL, which is why they can use these next couple of games against bad defenses to play a little bit more like that and start putting a little bit more back on. Because I think that without all the details, you can't consistently win. It's a one week, two week type of solution to get them back on track. But long term, that's not really going to work.

I also do think, though, that there are. are some lessons to be learned from what happened here. The KOC could take forward with him, which is it doesn't always have to be 10 out of 10 complexity. And it doesn't always have to be throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, all the time. I think there is something to that. You don't always have to have three different, you know, motions, you know, pre-snap. It's the, like, there, there, you can take some of that down a notch.

Well, and the, another point, too, to the, the, the, the, uh, texture, the messenger here who said, what, eight and five if he played that well, I would argue that if their defense had been as healthy, if their offensive line had had been as healthy, and the running game as productive as it was yesterday, they could have won more with Carson Wentz, too. I think there were wins to be had when he was out with his ankle sprain, regardless of how he was going to play. Wentz, at least early in London and before he got to L.A., was playing well enough where they could have maybe squeezed out another win or two and or at least one more. And if they did have that one more win, then they're in the hunt graphic today as opposed to,

you know, infantile, you know, chance to get in. So, and it's what's funny is they may be, I don't know if they're going to run the table here. It seems unlikely. But if they get to eight and nine, I pose the question in April. Would you be satisfied with eight and nine if McCarthy made progress, that's still possible to happen. And I mean, they crawled over a lot of broken glass maybe to get there. But if they finish eight, nine, and he's on the upswing, I think that's about what you had to expect. Unfortunately, they didn't build the roster that way and sell the product that way. They sold it as playoff bound, a deep run as possible. And that was a lemon, clearly. But it's funny, I felt that if they are going to hand this over to McCarthy,

everybody needs to have the grace and patience to understand that they may end up finishing eight and nine, which could make him in line to win 11 or 12 games in a year or two, because that's what quarterbacks have to go through. Management didn't feel that way, and they loaded up the roster and then decided to put McCarthy, you know, strap it on McCarthy's back and say, carry us to January, and it obviously wasn't going to happen. He gets hurt. Wentz gets hurt.

Now you're going to Max Brosmer, and we had delusions of grandeur about Max Broseley. that I think have been rightfully put down. So that's the nature of a season. And that's why looking at your schedule in April, trying to figure out what's going to happen, I think everybody would have been like, boy, that Washington game, that could be a playoff preview.

That's going to be a tough matchup. And look what it turned out to be. Isn't this why football is so tricky? Because so you, you know, you make the comment about Max Brosber. But if McCarthy was not in concussion protocol and went and played against Seattle, and they, I mean, it's probably going the same exact way, right?

I mean, or close, maybe not that many interceptions. Maybe not the underhead pass, but he was going to get abused. Right, because their defensive line was unbelievable in that game. Also, Nick Iman Warray is like immediately one of the best players in the NFL. If you saw his game yesterday, I think he had a sack, a pick, a block field goals, a guy's a freak, he destroyed them. DeMarcus Lawrence destroyed them. And so we didn't see that.

That didn't happen. So then he goes to Washington, it plays well, and it's like, oh, well, he's figured some things out. Order of operations also does matter for sure, Murf, because if they had had these games, you have to wonder about this. If you had games against bad teams earlier on, if he got to play against Cincinnati, which is the other side of that coin, and then put together a few games against the NFC East and then built up his confidence, does he win the game against Chicago? because now when the you know when the commenter says that hey if he had played like that they might have won eight games i mean you could definitely find that against atlanta and you could definitely find that against chicago which is a game he really threw away in a lot of ways they outplayed them through the whole game and i know they took the lead late but they deserve to lose it uh if the

train had just stayed on the tracks and there wasn't interceptions and there wasn't big mistakes uh and there wasn't ineptitude like there was you know like there was like there was in that game and inaccuracy, then they probably do have a chance based on the way their defense played, which, you know, I really think what yesterday was Murph was a bit, and you wrote about this, it was just a bit of a tease of like, yes, that's how good your defense is. Yes, that's how good your offensive line is. And you blew it. Because that's where I really feel like that four game stretch, if they had won two of them, at least you'd be in a spot of six and six, now seven and six, and you wouldn't be in the playoffs,

but you'd be going, okay, well, you know, that's because the West is so good. And that's because the North is so good. But seven and six, you've got a chance, you know, to maybe finish the season with 10 wins and miss the playoffs. Well, who would be mad about that or nine wins based on how it started. So the plus, plus McCarthy's playing big games, big snaps and big moments.

Right. And you can't replicate that until you're in that situation. Right. As opposed to feeling like this is a glorious. preseason and somebody had the comment let me find it uh first name last name says at one point drew breeze said this is great for mccarthy to get reps in a game like situation right because it wasn't it wasn't it was barely a game like situation after what like the early part of the second half and that's where it does become tricky to evaluate because i mean there's so many

quarterbacks who have had good games under situations like this that are not able to follow them from week to week. But there's also turning points that we see from young quarterbacks, which is what we wanted to be talking about was, can we identify a moment where he got things going and started to turn around and get rolling? So that does lead me to the fan dual question of the day for you, Murph, which is the Cowboys opened up as 6.5 point favorite. on Fanduil in Dallas, a game that you will be traveling to. What does McCarthy have to do to convince you, Murph, that he is the guy over these last four weeks? And what I mean by the guy is not like, oh my God, he's the next Fran Tarkington.

What I mean is he is really the guy who you are absolutely starting QB1, week one, next year. That's not a debate. They're obviously going to bring in a backup quarterback who can play some games if he needs to but hey he turned the corner he's there like what would he need to do in these last four games to get you to that spot or kenny look like an NFL quarterback I know that sounds ridiculous but that's what he needs to do he looks needs to look like an NFL quarterback I think it's foolish to think he could go turnover free the next four games I think there's going to be an interception there may be a strip sack that may or may not even be his fault. He's going to have to endure some of those. But not putting the defense on a short field,

not thwarting momentum with a bad looking three and out after an interception puts you deep and, you know, opponent territory and you have to settle for a field goal, not seizing upon a nice kick or punt return, you know, recognizing moments in the game to kind of ride the wave and not, you know, short circuit that. Those are some things. I'd really like to see him learn how to slide. I mean, the only times yesterday I really put my hands up with some of these were on some of those scrambles because it just, I mean, look at what happened to Jackson Dart the other day, trying to get a yard in New England, and he gets blown up on the sideline. I, I worry that McCarthy's trying to do too much, and he's going to get pounded again and be in a situation where he's got

maybe not, he's not going to be out of the game, but he's got sore ribs. They're going to prevent him from doing this and he's got this bothering him and he's got that. Why? Because he tried to get an extra yard on third and 12 when he ends up getting stopped short at third and six. And he didn't slide or he didn't run out of bounds or he didn't throw it away. So those are some things that I think maturity will handle. As I mentioned earlier, he's got to find a connection with Jefferson. And whether that's just leveraging bubble screens, whether it's getting him the ball out of the backfield, Jefferson has to get more touches and targets. And if That means O'Connell's got to, you know, rain him in and bring him closer to the sidelines and to McCarthy to give him a better chance to find him.

That has to happen. That's non-negotiable there. And I think I would just like to have a sense that he, he's not overwhelmed by the moment in a game or at a stadium. This is a kid that played in 100,000-seat stadiums all the time in Michigan. So I don't think Dallas is going to blow his doors off. But Dallas may put up 40 points. And if the Vikings can put up 30 with McCarthy and lose. by 10, that's probably progress against a team like that in that situation. So those are the things

that I would really like to see. Real quick, going back to your schedule point, it kind of triggered something in me. We have to remember, too, this is the Vikings paying the price for 14 victories, right? The schedule is always weighted. So now if they end up with six or seven, they're going to have a softer schedule next year. So then we'll be debating about whether or not they're taking advantage of the soft schedule, even though we're not going to know what anybody looks like in May. But point being, they are going to have a less stringent schedule. They're not going overseas. The schedule should be more in their favor on paper next year, which if anything, may make it slightly easier for McCarthy because you're not having these brutal opponents

early on, even though we missed a few of those too. Yeah, Washington would have been great in October, but we would have been talking all summer about how that was going to be a difficult whole matchup. And why didn't they have Tennessee and Jacksonville is here? Darnold had, you know, the AFC South to punch around last year. They don't have that this year. So it is cyclical. They're going to have to ride that way. But as I mentioned, just competent quarterback play and not being overwhelmed by the moment, integrating Jefferson and learning how to protect himself. I'll feel pretty good going into the offseason. You know, there's two things there that you said that I want to expand on. The Jefferson point. So my theory on

that is that every team goes into a game against the Minnesota Vikings. Even Washington, who looked like they didn't game plan at all, they are trying to stop Justin Jefferson. Now, what Kevin O'Connell has done over the last

couple years. Well, this is the point. So what Kevin O'Connell has done over the last couple years is he's devised a lot of ways to still get Jefferson open. The problem with those ways is it requires really good timing a lot of the times because it's breaking out of a route and the ball has to arrive

there. So there's a throw against Green Bay that you sort of knew, uh-oh, it's not going to be good today where Jefferson breaks, goes into his break. And it actually turns into completion. But McCarthy hesitates because he's, you know, it's clearly doubled, but he hesitates. And then he's like, oh, he actually is open. And then he whips the ball in there. And Jefferson kind of goes down and makes the catch, but the throw is super late because he didn't have it out and he didn't see what was happening or wasn't able to anticipate it or trust it maybe is another part of this. So I think that with Jefferson, what he has to do is learn to trust this, but also a lot of

times you do have to layer the ball. Like there's a reason people saying like, oh, KOC overdid it by coaching him. Like, no, no, no, you have to do this. Like this is, you cannot just throw 16 passes. for 160 yards every week. Like, you have to make these NFL throws at some point to get the ball to just to Jefferson. You can't just throw him five bubble screens a game.

It clearly doesn't work because they've already pushed their defenders toward him. Now, could you throw some quick hitches? I don't know, because they do that with Hawkinson and he won't throw it. That happened yesterday. The throws that he wants to make are the throws that he made at Michigan time and time again, which are drop back, throw it. really darn hard for about like 17 yards down the field, 20 yards down the field on a deep out or a deep, you know, in cut or a vertical like he did to Oliver, like those are his

throws. You saw his strengths. But that doesn't match up with just the Jefferson. You have to lead him to a spot. And I think even at times KOC would get frustrated with Kirk because Kirk didn't believe in it either. Darnold comes in is like, oh, I believe in it. watch this, watch this throw into a, you know, one on one. Also, there's another thing, too, and I think getting into a rhythm is real.

Jefferson, I was shocked he didn't catch that ball in the end zone. Like, that's, I mean, it's a really stupid argument flag for offensive pass interference. Yeah, he definitely pushed the guy. But like, that's a Jefferson, he hasn't made some Jefferson catches that he usually makes this year. But I agree, like in terms of signs of true progress, that's number, that is number one for sure. is if you're really going to do it in this offense, Jefferson is the guy who's going to beat the best teams when you have to face them, not just trying to throw to your third tight end.

The other thing is that I'd like to see is at least two times the game is hard and he wins. Or like you said, like if you lose 31 to 28, like all right, fine. Like, that's fine. But go to Dallas, have it be hard, have to go, you know, back and forth with Dack Prescott, a little bit. Face Green Bay at the end of the season, week 18, have them need it. Right. And they, Green Bay needs it.

Right. Steal their thunder. Have them play for something and grind out. I don't even need a beautiful 320 yard game. Grind out a win. Have zero turnovers. Fight for some first downs. Make some plays and look good, look at least good doing it at times, right?

Like, like a fourth quarter. quarter at Soldier Field. Right. If you could unleash that once a game or, you know, once a quarter. But not against Chicago's 26th ranked defense or whatever, right? Like that's, so, you know, I'd like to see at least a couple more times of that. We saw some good stuff against Detroit and some good stuff at Soldier Field, but that's kind of what we're holding on to. And, you know, that's that. I wanted to ask you something. I didn't want to, didn't want to bring it up with the post game because I thought, like, this isn't the time. It's time to break down this game and just instantly react.

But there was a report in a newspaper, local paper, about Quasi Adafo Mensa, potentially being the fall guy, if things continue to go horribly wrong. Now, that talk is going to cease for a moment. I'm going to give you my opinion on this, Murph, and you can tell me what you think. I think that it's very clear the Minnesota Vikings missed. calculated how far along J.J. McCarthy would be and put too much on him. I'm not even talking scheme. I'm talking like pressure to be the guy when he wasn't ready for it. And they missed on that. And they have to own that. And they're responsible for it. But I also look

around the roster and I go, wow, there's a lot of good players out there. And when they're healthy, it's a very, very strong roster. And you could say, well, they didn't draft well. Donovan look great yesterday. Douse Turner's played really well. Jordan Addison is an excellent player. They found Jalen Redmond. Like they've, they've built a good, they traded a draft pick for, you know, Jordan Mason, who we've seen be excellent when he's allowed to touch the football. Like, you know, Hawkinson, hey, look weird. When you get him the ball, he actually is good and fine. Like, shocker, right? So that was a draft pick. Yeah, but that was a draft pick that they spent. They've done really well in free agency, Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen have

greatly improved in the second half, et cetera, et cetera. But even if you went, you know, if you lose the rest of the way and you want to fire somebody, I'm not going to stop you. But I think that they built this to have two shots at it. Shot number one has missed the mark. But if you're telling me that most of this roster goes into next year and they bring the development that they've had this year from McCarthy into next year to do it again and take another swing at it, bringing everybody back.

And they say, you know, if they want to change an assistant coach or whatever, that's fine. But I think that that's fair. They built it all for a two-year window, have your two-year window. And if it goes terribly wrong, then you can fire whoever you want. That is my take on it. How do you feel? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

I was reading that yesterday, too. I thought, you know, because I think so many people were anticipating a gong show. You know, I think they were anticipating whatever week it was, week 10, 11, and 2010, I was at the Metrodome when the Vikings got rolled by Green Bay and 60,000 people were chant and fire Childers. I mean, if they looked awful yesterday and McCarthy looked awful, you may have had a lot. I don't know what kind of chant you could have had for Quasi, but I think there would have been a lot of that angst and sentiment that somebody's got to pay for this. somebody's got to pay for the failures, the abject failure, the embarrassment, because the wills take this seriously, optics. Somebody would have to pay for that, but also it becomes a scenario where do you keep handing

the keys to the same decision makers who have, at the very least, at the very least, overestimated what they had in McCarthy as a 2025 franchise quarterback. That's the very least. But they also packaged and sold it to the public as this is capable of a deep playoff run team. So the disconnect there, I think the credibility gap is real. And that will only ebb and flow a little bit more over these last few games. You have mentioned the improved defensive play and the improved sort of free agent

play. But there was also risks that when you were bringing in these older guys that they're going to get banged up. You know, Ryan Kelly's concussion history was well chronicled before they signed him and that caused problems this year. So there were decisions that were risky and they got their chips swept off the table. That's the game of roster building in the NFL. There's only so many times though you get to because they're playing with the Wilson money. So, you know, There's a time where they're going to need answers and they're going to need accountability. You also have to measure, is it worth blowing up your front office to send a message? Is that going to help you in the short term other than, you know, given the masses of, you know, a body, you know, that they can trounce on?

So I'm not sure. I think the reason that was sort of in the air was a sense of this isn't just off the rails. the train's falling down the hill and destroying the town. That's where things were. So the train isn't on the track so much as it's not burning anymore, if we want to take that metaphor anymore. So I'm willing because there has been, you know, Dallas Turner seems to have turned a corner. You know, so Quasi, you know, I'm going to give him a little bit more grace on that pick.

But yeah, he's got to win. He's got to have a successful March and April this year. his best March in April to put out the fires that have been raging for weeks and months because of bad decisions or at least misguided decisions. And I don't, you know, the other thing is if McCarthy looked horrible and looks horrible down the stretch, then you get the infighting. Then you get the, well, your fingerprints were more on this decision in March than mine were. I told you not to go this way. So then you have that whole palace intrigue playing out. And that usually spills out publicly, and that wouldn't have been helpful. If they can avoid that, as you said,

if they pitched it as a two-year window, we purged the Spielman Zimmer era, we purged cousins, we even purged Darnold. We drafted this guy. He's ours. This is the, this is our regime going forward. Give us two years. All right. You are definitely on the clock in 2026. When you look at a lot of the contracts. And then there are some things that you mentioned that are realities of the NFL, that it is set up to be better the next year than you were the last. And you have to be the New York Jets to never take advantage of that. But when it comes to a good organization, just take San Francisco.

They won six games last year. And then San Francisco has had a very easy schedule. And I remember thinking going into the season like, I'm not sold on them. And they got early injuries. And here they are winning games because they never play any. except for the teams in their division and well that's a way that you and they have a great coach not just a good coach they have a great coach they have a very good organization but even they had a six win season where everything went wrong and their contracts look stupid and their draft go look

at their drafting it did not go particularly well they lost samuel they lost brandon i yuk they they've just had everything go wrong and they were ugly situations when they lost yes exactly and yet still like they have found a way even with a backup quarterback playing half the the season and the way is that they've played teams like Washington a lot this year and that's gotten them into that spot when they've played good teams they've mostly lost so um although did they did they beat the Rams they did beat the Rams the one time so they got it one more time they're they're look they're a great organization great coach my point is that they've been benefiting from they were be they were bad last year and so if the Vikings they also had

the credibility of Super Bowl appearances, which the Vikings do not. Absolutely. But, like, they built this whole thing along the way to take it down, get rid of the old stuff, bring in the new stuff. They win 14 games. They add to the 14 roster, win roster to have a chance to win this year and next year. Just look at the way the contracts are set up. Most of them are, like, technically maybe not through 2026, but they really are. And also, like, these draft picks, at least the first rounders are developing now. So you're going to get a Turner that's going into his third year, a Jackson that's into his third year.

And I think if you fire people after the first year of your quarterback starting, that also kind of looks a little ridiculous because historically, first year starting quarterbacks don't always hit the ground running. So give them their shot with him on his rookie contract to go into free agency again, make good moves there, to draft someone, make a good move there. And I know people say, well, they can't draft. But again, look at the first round picks. I know scene went wrong, but everyone else very much still, you know,

we're up in the air on McCarthy, but that's KOC's pick. Clearly, everything else is at least trending in a good direction. Allow that, I think. You don't have to fire someone there. The only argument for that would have been, I think, if all their moves had just gone terribly wrong, some have been better than others, would be to me if they wanted a general manager to be much more of the, I am the captain now, because what they did when they fired Rick and Mike was they said, we want a culture of collaboration.

And I believe what has been happening with the Vikings is the coaching staff, Flores, KOC, they have been getting the grocery list and the front office, Quasi, Rob Brzynsinski, they've been getting the groceries for them. Here's what we need. Go get it. We've heard lots of stories about, oh, yes, this is how I got Cashman. This is how I got Van Ginkle. This is how, et cetera, et cetera, right?

And I think that's fine as a way of operating. But if you're going to change, you're probably going to say, all right, we are taking at the command away from the coaches now. And it is the general manager's job to build the roster. It's this guy. It's this old school football guy, which is probably who they'd hire. And no longer are the coaches, you know,

maybe dictating as much roster-wise. I don't see a need for that right now. What I see a need for is the quarterback to play a hell of a lot better than he did through his first six games. Because I agree with the commenter, though, about yesterday, if McCarthy had a bunch of games with no turnovers and 160 yards, they do probably with three or four more of these.

And if he had stayed healthy through that whole time, you know, they probably do beat a Pittsburgh with that if this defense had been healthy at that time or the offensive line. So I can't win with 30 snaps a game. Right. Yeah. Whatever they were pulling in on. Right.

So I think it's fair. I think that's what's fair. But I also said to you last week, if they go five and 12 or four and 13 and they lose by 30 to the Packers in the last day of the season, I can't defend anybody. Yeah. And that, I mean, so that means the stakes are high in a lot of ways for these four games. Their stakes are high for the decision makers. The stakes are high kind of certainly for McCarthy, but I think, you know, the fan base too. look, they're not going to not sell out next year.

We know that. I mean, the hook's in too deep. It's the NFL. But you don't want an angry, ornery fan base blasting people all day long on social media. And the only way to take a fire hose to that is to win. It really is. So if they can massage some wins and massage some good optics and some confidence, everybody's going to feel better going into the offseason.

Not great. very disappointed because look we all you know life isn't guaranteed this was another nine months of our lives or 12 if you want to consider the offseason of thinking we had one thing to look forward to and comment on and analyze and pick apart and being handed a rotting pile of this and being told hey this is still the NFL and I just don't feel like I mean I just feel like there was a bait and switch means like they knew what they that they were selling us a lemon, but I just feel like we've been cheated a bit because this was not what you, you had a Cadillac, it had a few dings on it in January and Sam Darnold, you decided to get

rid of it for a shinier Cadillac that you actually built, but none of the belts were the transmission's shoddy and it only has three tires. But hey, we built this and it looks great. That's kind of what I felt like this season was a bit. So I think they, the NFL is a humbling league. It'll humble everybody, players, coaches, managers, fans, media. It's a humbling enterprise. And I think KLC and KWASI have gotten a big helping of that. And they realize, you know, you can't be a successful coach in this league

without dealing with adversity and hardship. And working your way through it, it's not just talking about it. and grinding through it, it's improving on the other side. And when you think of all those golden horseshoes that reigned on this team in 2022, it just, you know, and then Darnold becoming Sam Darnold, what everyone thought he would be when he was drafted, kind of magically before your eyes, you know, those were things that most NFL coaches don't get in a career.

KOC's had those two great occurrences, and he still doesn't have a playoff win. he's he's learning about the seedy underbelly and the undercarriage of judgment and scrutiny and it doesn't take long for the screws to turn and I think he's probably going to be a better head coach because of this I think he you could just tell by the his prickliness look if you're losing and losing the way they are you don't expect coaches to be tossing bouquets in the press conferences but you could sense that the walls we're closing in. So how's he going to grow from this? How is he going to be able to build upon that over these four games, work with McCarthy through a full off season again, and have a

lighter schedule to go? I mean, you know, it's relentless the expectations in this league, but I think McCarthy would be a better coach for it. And Quazy, you know, he knows he's on the clock. He's sharp. Yeah, I guess for me, and, you know, nobody has to remind me that other draft picks have gone wrong. Trust me. I've had it mentioned to me a few times by the comment section. I also do want to point out that I'm not so sure that Brian Flores is really a big development guy when it comes to some of these draft picks.

I'm not saying that they've turned into megastars elsewhere, but they really have not stuck with young players on the defensive side. They came in and they moved on from everybody really. quickly, they also spent a lot of their draft picks to win now on other guys. They trade a draft pick to get Jordan Mason. They trade one for Hawkinson. They trade one for Cam Robinson. They trade one. They have essentially traded their draft picks by signing all these players. You know, they lose comp picks when Eric Wilson becomes a great player. That's just the price to pay that they've made that sacrifice. And I'm not saying that they've made great moves across the board and every

picks been wonderful and every single player has been magical except for j j mccarthy that is not what i'm saying i mean there's some contracts erin jones was great yesterday the overall is that contract a great idea probably not byron murphy junior who i think is better than what we've seen this year has not lived up to that contract dalton risner i think played just as well as will fries has played maybe they would fight me on that but the data points to that like dalton risner was a plus pass blocker, which has been Will Fries and not a difference maker in the run. And that's kind of been Will Fries, too. Only they paid way more for it than with Dalton Reisner.

Although, can I quickly mention just real quick for all the folks who were like, they got rid of Ed Ingram and now he's great. He is now 54th out of 60 in pass blocking after yesterday's game against the Chiefs. So I don't think a lot actually changed there. But the point just being that, you know, they did a lot of suboptimal things. including moving on from a quarterback who had one of the best seasons in franchise history, which I think is a suboptimal thing to do because it's so important. And they wasted a year.

And when you do that, you end up on the hot sea. Like it wasn't shocking to me to see that article to say somebody might get cooked by this season because that's what happens in the NFL. I just think in my opinion, like let's be bigger picture about this and have, have the quarterback get two years because think about, I mean, think about where Chicago was last year. They were in such a bad spot with their coach that they had to do it. I don't think that this is in a bad spot so bad with either spot where you have to do this because the organization is melting from the inside. Like, that's how it felt with Rick and Zim. There's so much

dysfunction. It's, you just have to make a change. I don't feel like that's the case. As of right now, Talk to me after week 18. I wanted to ask you, Murph, about yesterday and the other games that we saw before we wrap up. Incredible game in Buffalo. I wish I was there. That was magic in the snow globe between Borough and Josh Allen. The Los Angeles Rams just put a complete ass whoopin on the, call them the Phoenix Cardinals until they do something. The Phoenix Cardinals.

But the game of the day for me, Chicago and Green Bay. just two teams bludgeoning each other. Oh, man, that, that was, that was so good. What, what did you think of that game, Murphy? I only was able to read about it. I saw a couple of highlights. I, because I had to do something after our game, but I, I, I love the fact,

we talked about this in the offseason, too. Would the division flip, you know, would it become more of a Green Bay, Chicago division than Detroit, Minnesota. I'm not willing to hand these guys everything yet, but the way that they play, the way the coaches dislike each other, the way, you know, Minnesota and Green Bay have always had a big rivalry. But the Bears Packers rivalry is right there. It's a 1A, 1B in this division. And I just feel like it feels good when the Bears and the Packers don't like each other. And there have been some funny things that, you know, they both play outdoors, they both play in

messes. They both have these hard-nosed reputations. I love the fact that now you are, there's a coaching rivalry. And we don't have, we have them here and there, but it feels like these guys genuinely don't like each other. Obviously, there's been comments made that kind of precipitated that, you know, when Ben Johnson says, hey, I love beating Matt Lafleur twice a year. You don't think that's going to get back to LaFleur. I just feel like it's, it's kind of a grudge match now and you know the lions may be there in the end the vikings are resetting but this could be a green bay chicago jordan love caleb williams ben johnson matt lefleur kind of you know san francisco dallas type that that's kind of where the vibes are there needs to be nfc championship

games to really build upon that but it just feels like there's a good old hate brewing um and when you have a game like yesterday that comes down to to big plays at big moments, but also mistakes at key moments and comebacks and uncertainty and controversial officiating or whatever. It's a beautiful thing to watch. And I just feel like these teams,

if these two teams meet in the playoffs, it might be the bloodiest game of the playoffs. You know, it just, it made me a little sad to not be covering. it's you know what one of our good friends Courtney Cronin covers the Chicago Bears and I was like man she suffered a lot to get here she did oh she went through some horrific seasons covering that team but I thought man I wish I was at Lambo today like that that would have been a good one to to cover and talk to people after break down a million different ways and all those things

and I also think that it shows how far Chicago has come that they are one complete pass in the end zone. If Caleb Williams gets it out a little earlier, puts a little more air underneath it, that touchdown was there to be had. He just didn't put enough gas on it. They were right there. Maybe if it scrambles, he gets one yard. It's a first down. I don't know. But that Chicago team has come a long way from being kind of fraudulent, which I thought they were early in the season, but they look like they're getting stronger. And their offensive line is really something. They were running the ball. You know, I still don't think that Ben Johnson fully trained. us, Caleb Williams. You can see that and some of the play calling. But when it comes to how they've

run the football, it's been really miraculous, how they create wide open wide receivers, yards after catch. Like Ben Johnson has been the real deal this year as he was in Detroit. And, you know, last year going in twofold. I think they've wounded, he wounded Detroit by leaving. Oh, yeah. No, that's absolutely true. That is absolutely true. Last year, it felt like this with Minnesota and Detroit. Like their first game was super close. It came down to one play. And then, you know, obviously week 18 went the way it did. But going into week 18, like, how excited were we for that? Like the coaching matchups here, the battles with these teams, how good all of them are,

even going into next year now that we know Ben Johnson is very legit as a head coach. I mean, that's just spectacular theater. But it also raises the bar that much higher for how good the Vikings team and J.J. McCarthy and KOC and everybody needs to be because this is who you're dealing with is a. Chicago team that's going to improve and a Green Bay team that like the the Jordan love discussion's over the Jordan love discussion's over he's a great quarterback he is he the best quarterback of all freaking time no but he's a he is a great quarterback and Green Bay has their guy he's played through a lot of stuff this year with injuries injuries on their O line receivers getting

hurt in and out of the lineup his best tight end getting hurt and he continues to him getting hurt yeah right right right he is uh PFF second highest grade of quarterback this year. He's just been spectacular. So that's what you're dealing with. If you're the Vikings, you are dealing with top-notch quarterbacks of Jared Gough and Jordan Love,

some of the best in the league, and then a budding offense in Chicago that seems to be continually getting better and a roster that can improve. It's not, it is not going to be an easy 2026, even if you have a easier schedule. So let me give you some fan dual odds here. Murph, uh, the Los Angeles Rams continue to be the Super Bowl favorites at plus 430.

Green Bay at plus 750 is next. Then Seattle plus 800, Buffalo at plus 850. And then we've got some other teams mixed in Denver, Eagles, Patriots, the Houston Texans, after taking down the Kansas City chiefs are all of a sudden plus 1,600 on Fanduel. They are in this conversation, Murf. Uh, what do we, what do we make of this? I mean, Kansas City is not completely dead. Indianapolis is going to have to start Brett Rippin and possibly Philip Rivers,

which I sound like I'm kidding, but I'm not. Like that is a pre-close. That is a joke that I would make like, oh, they need to bring back Philip Rivers. I assume you saw that today, right, Murph? Yeah, I do. Yeah, okay. I mean, but like what? That's where they're at right now.

I think, Murph, that this season, and this is why I feel like I'm, like a meme looking out of a window like at the rest of the NFL this season has been spectacular just the drama the shocking results that we've seen from kC from baltimore new teams emerging quarterbacks emerging coaches emerging and so much parity that i don't know what's going to happen it's hard to talk me off of the los angeles rams though uh i love buffalo i know you love buffalo I know the country loves Buffalo. Yep. Watching Josh Allen just do what he does and take over a game

and just nonchalantly run 45 yards for a touchdown says to me this is a guy that can get it done no matter how poor their defense is, no matter how poor the running game is. Josh Allen with the ball in his hand is going to make things happen. So I'm still, I'm clear. The Rams in the NFC, I'm not budging off of them until somebody could show me why.

I still like the idea of Buffalo getting to the Super Bowl. I'm also, I like the idea that they're probably going to have to go on the road. And they're probably, and they're battle tested. I mean, they are ready for this. They don't have the best roster they've had in recent years. Their receiving core is non-existent. But Josh Allen is a MVP and a Superman. And the only person I've been able to say that about really has been Mahomes in the last couple of years.

So Mahomes, I think, you know, clearly they've run out of gas in Kansas City. It's been a hell of a run. Seven straight-in AFC championship games, a 10 years of dominance. But they're going to have, they're in serious need of a reset. I think they're just battered and just unable to drag it across the finish line. They had all those one-score victories last year like the Vikings did in 2022. That's a game of roulette you cannot win every season. Don't sleep on the Jacksonville Jaguars.

out of nowhere, they are now rocketing up. I think are they eight and four, nine and four now? And Trevor Lawrence has been great. Trevor Lawrence has been great recently. The AFC South, which we, you know, made fun of for so long. Granted, Indianapolis, I don't know what to make of them now with Jones being out, but with Houston coming on, they don't look like a team you want to play right now. I just feel like there's, as you mentioned, the parody, the NFL has mastered the parody formula

and the algorithms with the schedule. and the drafting and the compensations and the television matchups and the rookie contract. Everything is predicated on making everybody feel like they can go to the Super Bowl. And as soon as they don't, they start thinking about next year going to the Super Bowl. And it's this nonstop cycle. But the way that they have been able to get these close games, one-score games, you know, block field goals, ruining games, major magic. kind of plays, plays you've never seen

before. They feel like they're erupting every week now, as opposed to maybe one or two a year. And it's why it's the greatest unscripted entertainment on the planet. And as we always say, in May, Collar, it's why they play the games. It's why they play the games,

Murph. The highest graded teams by PFF and the NFL are the Rams and Seahawks with surprisingly Detroit, but they've lost a lot of close No one in the secondary. And a lot of injuries.

But then Green Bay and a team we haven't talked about a lot that's 11 and 2. The New England Patriots, they're going to play Buffalo this week. The schedule, have you looked at the schedule of games this week, Murph? Holy cow. It's spectacular drama. I was almost thinking the Vikings would get flexed out of Sunday night, except it's Dallas and Dallas could play a AAA team and they'd leave them in the next lot. They still could, I think, by tomorrow, but I don't think they will.

But Buffalo is at New England. England. That's going to be really something to see. We've got Detroit at Los Angeles and then Green Bay playing at Denver and the Colts with who knows who at quarterback are now a 14 point underdog to Seattle. But there's a lot of good stuff. There's some very serious games going on this week and a lot of teams that could potentially win the Super Bowl. Cannot wait to see how this plays out in the rest of the league, and at least here, Murph, as you said, uh, the, the politics are now the story inside TCO performance center. Politics and optics.

How much can, uh, J.J. McCarthy continue to play like he did yesterday. How can that make everyone look by the end of the year and feel? And what, uh, what are we going to talk about week 18? Like, that's really the discussion that we're having, um, now in Minnesota, unfortunately, but, uh, that's where we're, at. So, uh, Murph, great stuff. Mani will be back on Thursday night and then, you know, next week as always, you are headed to Dallas to cover the game. So we'll be able to get the, uh, the on the scene analysis from you

with your annual trip, which will be very fun for next week. So we will see you then. Great stuff, Murph. Football. Football. And thanks everybody, as always for watching slash listening. And if you get a chance, go check out the newsletter, purple insider dot football for my film breakdown tomorrow on j j mccarthy's game thanks everybody we'll see you then football