Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - How will Vikings rookies be impacted by bizarre offseason?

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

Read Matthew Coller's written work at PurpleInsider.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, do you feel like everything these days is go, go, go? It's non-stop from work to friends to family and a million pressing issues. Sometimes you just need to take a playoff and hit the reset button. That's when you reach for a Coors Light. It's made to chill. Hey, it's that time of year in Minnesota again to get out on the lake, go to the cabin, sit back, watch some baseball. Coors Light is the perfect refreshment to chill during these summer months. There's only one beer out there that's made to chill.

The mountains on the bottles and cans turn blue when your beer is cold, and that way you know it's time to chill. Hit that reset button with some mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, and cold packaged. It's literally made to chill. It's crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. Coors Light is the one you should choose when you need to unwind, when you want to hit the reset button, reach for the beer that is made to chill.

Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Hey everybody, Matthew Collar here. Golden, Colorado, and great podcast for everyone. The final two episodes are live right now, or you can binge the entire season to learn about your favorite soccer stars. Check out Blue Wire's Golden Goal, available anywhere you listen to podcasts. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me, he is a pro football focus draft analyst in 2 for 1 podcast along with Mike Renner. It is Austin Gale. What's up, Austin?

Nothing, Austin. I'm doing well. That's good to hear. I got a lot to get into here with the Vikings rookies and where they fit in heading into training camp. If there's training camp and all the rookies show up when they're supposed to show up and we go from there, so let's just pretend that everything will be fine. But I did want to ask you before we get into all the rookie players

and kind of who they're battling against and whether they've got a chance to make an impact, just what you think across the league, the impact of COVID canceling a large part of the off season, like how that will impact rookies, even if they have some of the plans that have been laid out, like if they go with what the NFL PA wants to do and having players work out first and then no pads and then pads and no preseason games I mean how could that all mess with rookies that are

coming into the league it's it's massive everyone I've talked to about this offseason the first thing they bring up what's the hardest part about this what you know what do you think what do you think COVID is going to have the biggest impact on, say, rookies? Every single one. Tyron Matthew, Calais Campbell, Scott Pioli. Everyone says the rookies, man, the rookies. It's going to be very difficult for rookies who are expected to come in and have prominent roles in an offense or defense to hit the ground running. Like Joe Burrow, everyone has all this success. I mean, PFF included, highest graded season in PFF college history dating back to 2014.

But even we are tempering expectations for Joe Burrow because it's just not going to be easy as a rookie, specifically at the quarterback position, to have success early on. It's going to be difficult to hit your stride. And it's not just learning the offense. It's the chemistry with the players, which is huge for the quarterback position, and also just game shape. Like being in game shape is a thing.

It was one of the reasons why I think a long time ago they played six preseason games. Then it dropped down to four. And then obviously we're probably going to see two preseason games or two preseason games in the future, maybe none this season. It's going to be tough for these rookies, man. And Justin Jefferson is a guy that comes to mind that will probably play a prominent role in the Minnesota Vikings offense. Fortunately for the receiver position, I feel like you're in a better spot there than you are for quarterback or even corner, but it's still not going to be easy. It's way easier said than done to learn the offense via Zoom.

You know, and as these players come from totally different backgrounds in terms of online learning and being able to kind of be self starters in that regard, like there's a lot of self starters in the NFL from a workout perspective. There's not, I don't know how many there are from like, you know, actually like getting into the books here and all that kind of stuff. It's going to be difficult. Like it's not their primary expertise, you know, and I think rookies for sure, I think is going to have the biggest impact here. And even just getting to know your coaches on a personal level for them to understand what you do well. I remember last year,

Gary Kubiak talking about Irv Smith and how they threw the entire move tight end playbook at Irv Smith. And he said he was swimming at the beginning, which any rookie would be, especially if you're asked to do everything that he was. And then they, what they did was kind of pare it down to what he felt comfortable with. So they had this long period to kind of be like, here's everything that someone who's good at your position does. Now let's figure out what you do well, what fits in. And I thought he had a very good first year.

For Justin Jefferson, that might be a little harder. I mean, the conversations that are had between a position coach and a player cannot be replaced via a Zoom call. Not at all. And I think the conversations between coaches and obviously the players, obviously the conversations between Kirk and obviously the players obviously the conversations between kirk cousins and justin jefferson are happening like finding that chemistry is super important especially you know a very good reason why justin jefferson was so good at lsu is he really understood the offense and he understood how to find open

holes in zone coverages and sit where joe bro would find him and i think it's not like he was creating a ton of separation on the outside and in one-on-one situations they were throwing him the football. I mean, yes, that did happen. But most often for Justin Jefferson, it was over the middle of the field, sometimes scramble drills, those types of things. And, like, you don't get that on Zoom. You just don't.

And I think just temper expectations. I would tell everyone the temper expectation for rookies out of the gate, weeks one through four, weeks one through six, if they do play, obviously obviously I think it's going to be very difficult for rookies to adjust I don't expect a ton of breakout games for Joe Burrow Justin Jefferson even on the defensive side of all Chase Young right out of the gate because it's going to be and again just talking I talked to Tyron Matthew recently said there are going to be coaches that are leaning on veteran players more so than any other year. Because in the past, it's been a much more equal opportunity, so to speak.

Everyone was in training camp. Rookies were there first. Rookie minicamp was there first. It was way more equal in terms of opportunity and those things. Now it's like, who knows the offense? Who's been here? Who have I seen before? And now it's going to be veterans, veterans, veterans, in my opinion, early in the season.

Well, it's a good humble brag by you that you guys had Tyron Matthew on. And he's great. So people should go find the 2 for 1 podcast and listen to that. He was great. So that's interesting because on the Vikings offense, really Justin Jefferson is the only key player that could potentially have to start. Maybe Ezra Cleveland, but that seems like a long shot. Let's talk about some of these defensive guys on the Vikings here, but that seems like a long shot. Let's talk about

some of these defensive guys on the Vikings here, Austin. They drafted all of them. They traded for all the picks and drafted all the defensive players. But it is interesting because as I was going through to write a piece on everyone's sort of starting point of training camp, I could come up with several guys who are either starters or are significant rotational players on this defense as rookies, and we were just talking about the additional challenge of that, but I could see not only Jeff Gladney, but Cam Dantzler, DJ Wanham potentially on a rotational role, James Lynch, and even Kenny Willikies, based on his college career, having a chance

to rotate in and have some type of role here. Oh, no, 100%. And I think starting with the cornerbacks, that is the most, that is the scariest part of this, because cornerback position is a don't lose position. When you lose, it's a touchdown. If Kenny Willikies goes out there and doesn't win a pass rush rep, you can live with that. But if Cameron Dancer or Jeff Gladney aren't prepared, they give up big plays when they lose. They give up touchdowns when they lose. I'm not as worried about Jeff Gladney. A big reason I loved him coming out is because he's battle-tested. This guy's got more coverage snaps, more targets than practically any cornerback drafted this past year, and I think that's going to help him a ton with this abbreviated offseason. Cameron Dancer, on the other hand, they're avoiding him in the

SEC. People weren't throwing at him. He's going to see probably more targets in his first two years in the NFL than he did all of his career at the collegiate level. So I think he's a guy that I don't know how much I'd want him in a rotational role. He already has that athletic limitation. He's not the fastest quarterback.

He's a slight of frame. There's a lot of things. His back's against the wall, so to speak, in terms of a learning curve. And then you throw in that he wasn't there all off season. That's going to make things difficult for him too. But as for Jeff Gladney, he's a very good athlete. He's battle tested. They played, you know, they played a ton of quarters at TCU, but I don't necessarily think the defense is going to be that hard for him to

adjust to. I could see Gladney still having enough success or avoiding losses at a higher rate than Dancer. But if you need Dancer in a pitch, say Mike Hughes goes down or something along those lines, man, it would be tough. I mean, it would be big play city, in my opinion, on the Vikings back end, even though Anthony Harris and Harrison Smith are two of the better safeties in the NFL, probably one of the better tandems in the NFL on the outside,

along the sidelines. That's where the big plays happen. So I'd be very nervous for injury with Mike Hughes. Depth is a bit of a concern because they are so young and haven't had this opportunity to really get their groove in the NFL. They have no one over the age of 24 playing cornerback this year on the projected starting roster. Dantzler is an interesting one for me, though,

because he was, in my mind, the most intriguing player that the Vikings picked throughout the entire draft, because we know what Gladney is, we know what Jefferson is from their careers, but Dantzler has the intrigue of running the slow 40, but not really looking like that on TV when you watch him look pretty fast to me, or at least fast enough to keep up with top wide receivers, so I think that there is a high ceiling there potentially for him. But also I do get concerned a little bit about the frame. There are very few players that look like that in the NFL. There are always outliers to everything.

Every draft season it's, hey, you know, you can draft a 275-pound defensive tackle because of Aaron Donald. Like, okay, well, most of them aren't like that, okay? What do you think about that and how that translates, if he can play at that kind of size? Yeah, I mean, excuse me. I mean, it comes back to the learning curve. Like, the learning curve is already going to be steep

because the receivers are going to be bigger than him, have thicker frames. Also, for a taller cornerback, the dude's got short arms. Like, his length isn't great. Like, I think it was like 30, 31-inch arms. And that's a concern with me. Obviously, the experience is a little bit of a concern. He didn't see a ton of targets in this to be stated. But what you did see, very smart football player. I mean, it takes a smart football player to have those negatives from a tools perspective

and still limit Jamar Chase the way he did against LSU and still play as well as he did in the SEC. And it's because he's smart, because he understands leverages, because he can do route pattern recognition, like that is super important. And that's not, you know, people talk about, you can't teach athleticism, you can't teach speed, you can't teach length. And that's obvious, those are genetic things. But it's very difficult. It takes a long time to learn the level of instincts, pattern recognition, understanding of the game, the camera dancer, I know it can be taught, you put this guy in a classroom, he'll figure it out down the road, but it's easier said than done.

I think him coming out of the gate with that leverage from a mindset perspective, from a football IQ perspective, will help him. Will it help him enough when he's going against some of the better receivers in the NFL? I don't know, because these guys are freakish athletes compared to Cam Dancer. You need to be 10 times as smart as Sulio Jones if you're going to limit him. 10 times as smart as Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalf,

these guys that are just freak shows entering the NFL these days. So I think he's got his back against the wall a little bit, but having that edge up top, especially while all the other rookies are coming in a little bit lighter from an offseason perspective, I think is important. Can we just stop for a second and talk about what you mean by pattern recognition because yeah I feel like I mean this is a football man's or woman's podcast but that's like deep in the weeds and this is something that's extremely extremely important in Mike Zimmer's defense probably every defense at this point but where players have

different assignments based on what they see right off the line of scrimmage that they're supposed to be able to read which route combinations they might be, which means as a corner, especially if you're playing nickel, but even as an outside corner, you have to have a good idea of what every pattern and what every route combination might be, especially when they play in tight splits or when they play in bunch formations. I mean, those are designed to throw off cornerbacks and have them lose their assignments. So I think that that can't be understated,

that that's one of the huge, huge changes from going from playing mostly a one-on-one type of role in college to the NFL, if you're a cornerback. No, it's massive. And it's all about identifying route combinations pre-snap and early in the snap. Pre-snap, you see inside splits. I talked to, I can't remember, J's massive. And it's all about identifying route combinations, pre-snap and early in the snap. You know, pre-snap, you see inside splits. I talked to, I can't remember, Jalen Johnson. He said, you know, pre-snap splits are massive. Is he close?

Is he inside the hash? Is he a little bit closer to the tight end? Okay, he's probably running an out-breaking route. How his feet are aligned? Is it outside foot forward, inside foot forward? How many, you know, is it twins, trips? Like, pre-snap is so important. And I think Jeff Gladney has that.

Dantzler has that. After, you know, if you are playing a cover three concept deep third of the field you need to be watching for scissors concepts so that way any late crossers deep down the field you're able to adjust jump off your wide receiver and play that on the outside sidelines like again it comes back to like quick game a lot of pattern recognition you know slant flat slant curl all that kind of stuff stick and all that stuff but deep down the, if you are playing cover three, if you are playing cover four, playing the deep side of the field, you need to be those late crossers, like scissors, concepts, posts, and obviously fades and stuff like that. I think that's super important. But it comes down

to pre-snap, you need to be locked in. And then post-snap, early in the snap, based off film study and those things, you need to be identifying the plays and route combinations that they're running. Before we get back to the to the conversation want to remind you to go to sodastick.com to get your original minnesota sports inspired goods baseball is back and soda stick just launched its latest partnership with hormel foods and the tommy watkins foundation to pay homage to the hormel row of fame It debuted in the Metrodome in 1992 and though it's been long retired, you have an opportunity to check out

the latest t-shirt called the Wiener Winner. Great for lunch, great for dinner. You remember how the song goes. For every t-shirt sold, Hormel Foods will donate $10 up to $10,000 to Tommy Watkins Foundation's Backpack Program supporting Twin Cities youth.

We're going to hook you up also with free shipping for your Wiener winner shirt. Use promo code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. That's SOTASTICK.COM, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.COM, original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. There's a reason why mike zimmer is obsessed with smart players and doesn't care that everyone should be yeah right athleticism certainly matters but smarts over athleticism in the nfl i think uh let's talk about some of

these rotational rushers now i was on a call with andre patterson and i said you know when andre patterson wants him he gets him so why did you, when Andre Patterson wants him, he gets him. So why did you want him with DJ Wanham? And he hung up, and my credential was pulled, basically. But DJ Wanham is an intriguing one because Andre Patterson has a great record of being able to spot guys that fit for Andre Patterson. And he is like the secret weapon of the Vikings organization, the way that he's able to develop defensive linemen.

And we saw this even with someone like Steven Weatherly, who got paid this last offseason. But he developed from a guy who was on the practice squad and all the way up into a rotational rusher and had some success last year. I think they view DJ Wanham as kind of similar. But in the situation they're in, they can't just have Everson Griffin there playing 90% of the snaps and then everybody else slowly develops. They might need Wanham or they might need James Lynch to step up and be a key player right away if they're going to be good, especially in those third down situations. No, absolutely. I think the Weatherly comparison is interesting. I think, obviously,

Weatherly is 6'5", 265, Wanham 6'5", 260 in that range. But Weatherly, in my opinion, plays the run a lot better than DJ Wanham did at South Carolina. Also has a little bit more tools. Like, I know Wanham's a relatively young player at 22 years old. You go back to the senior bowl tape, and you just didn't see him win as an edge rusher. And you wanted him to, in these one-on-one situations, you need to be able to beat these guys you're going against obviously some of the top tackles in the country but those one-on-one situations there's a reason how all 32 teams go there's a reason why draft analysts like myself really look at that because you get an opportunity in these one-on-one situations to see you know how deep into the toolbox are they're

going what kind of burst do they have can they match some of the quicker offensive tackles in the league and want them you just didn't see it and that that concerns me however developing a player like want them who does maybe have some of the tools you want size length etc it comes down to the tools i'm like everton griffin has great you know great tools daniel hunter has gotten better every single year and adding tools weatherly another guy i don't think want him's a player that i'd expect not so you compare him to willow keys willow keysowkees coming in with a lot of tools, a lot of bend, athleticism. This guy could already offer a ton as a pass rusher in year one, but his ceiling, I think, a little bit more limited than Wanham. As for Wanham, I think he needs some years. He needs some time to really grow as a pass rusher. You need to see him win with a variety of moves, have a counter to his

primary move. And I think that's why, if I had to highlight one of the, you know, between Wanham and Willow Keys, who's going to have a bigger impact this year, I think I'd go with the Michigan State kid. Why do you think it was that Willow Keys dropped? Everyone that I've talked to that studies the draft is like, yeah, we had him as kind of a third-round pick or a fourth-round pick. And when you watch him, he was pretty beastly. I mean, he looked like a good player.

Is it just because the physical tools weren't perfect? Or I don't know, because the production was definitely there. I mean, I think sometimes you can be miscast a bit as like a high motor type, a guy that's all pursued, all this like heart and those things. I feel like people do like to miscast those that maybe don't have elite length, elite athleticism, but he's a very good athlete. Not as good of an athlete as I'd say Chase Winovich was, but something that does stand out on his tape is his bend. His stance out of the snap is insane. Like he is literally like sniffing the grass from his stance because he can get so low and win the

leverage battle consistently. I don't know why he fell as far as he did. I think some people see a limited ceiling with Willoughby as compared to a guy like Wanham or other passers-by in this draft, but like, you also, when you're getting into day two, day three, like, you're chasing floors at a certain point. Like, these guys are going to play on your football team. They're going to be on rookie contracts making less than 600 grand a year, and if you can get good production out of those players, and I think Willikies, in addition to obviously playing on defense maybe as an early impact player, rotational piece, guys are going to play special teams and be very good at it you can expect that with his athleticism his size etc now with Lynch he's another guy that everybody I talked

to loved where the Vikings got him his production was bananas I mean it's one of the best sack seasons in college football history for James Lynch. But they want him to go from outside to being an inside rusher. And as a beat reporter, I've heard this one a number of times. Well, you know what we're going to do with him here. Hercules Mata'afa was great. Started him at linebacker, and then it was defensive end, and then it was back inside to defensive tackle.

And now he's getting fatter, so now it's going to work. And it's just like, you know, sometimes it's crazy with how they'll try, you know, a bunch of different things. But usually if you've got to change positions going into the NFL, they dealt with this with Jalen Holmes. He's a defensive end at Ohio State. They move him inside. It's a totally different ballgame.

Not everybody can do that. And even with Afadi Adenabo, they try moving him inside, and then they eventually have to come back to him being a defensive end. So what do you think of that move and how that might translate with Lynch, who is a guy, by the way, who has wide-open opportunities to win this rotational job and play a lot for the Vikings this year? Yeah, first thing I want to say about Lynch is talking to Chad Ryder, who is a longtime NFL.com writer, who's been a big NFL draft guy. He had James Lynch going in the first round. I mean, he was very high on James Lynch. I was never as high on him, and you

look at his totals here, 16 sacks according to PFF, which in PFF we count half sacks as full sacks. He deserved full credit for getting there. And then 70 total pressures. That is a ton playing in the Big 12. However, when I look at that and I see a 79.5 PFF pass rushing grade, it leads to me to think that a high volume of those pressures, a high volume of those sacks weren't true pass rush wins. They were pursuit pressures, cleanup pressures, all those things. And then that's kind of what you saw from him.

He's not a player that won a ton initially. However, what he did a great job of, pursuit, cleanup, always staying active, active hands, active feet, and that'll wrap you up a ton of pressures and sacks in the NFL. But if you're going to be dominant, if you're going to be elite on the edge, you need to win early in the snap. I always talk about winning early in the snap as a key thing, because that's what leads to sacks. That's what leads to big negative plays is when you win early as a pass rusher in one-on-one situations.

And as big as he is, what, 295 pounds, 6'4", 295, like you don't want him playing along the edge. And I don't necessarily think you want him playing, you know, losing weight to play along the edge because I don't think he's ever going to have that level of burst that you want playing along the edge to be successful. But you kick him inside, obviously there's going to be a learning curve. You're going against bigger guys, but you're going against phone booth types. And if this guy can maintain some of what he did as an edge rusher at Baylor

when he gets kicked inside, he could be very successful. And those active hands, those active feet on the inside lead to a high volume of not necessarily always pressures, but bailing out of pockets, keeping people from stepping up, and that has a ton of value as well. well yeah and you know that there's going to be pressure created from one side for the Vikings and then you have something else coming from that other side uh there's a couple other guys I wanted to ask you about and just where they might fit in and I think that um if one player was up against it the most for his chances to surprise everyone and be a starter it's probably Ezra Cleveland.

I mean, if you can get in there in OTAs and rookie minicamp and all those things and minicamp and at least see what it looks like to face off with someone like Afadi Adenabo. In past years, it was hilarious to watch other rookies come in and go against Everson Griffin. I don't know if people outside of Minnesota fully realize how insanely good Everson Griffin. I don't know if people outside of Minnesota fully realize how insanely good Everson Griffin is at football. But even then, just get your feeling for what it's going to look like

and where you would fit in an offense, and maybe even try and make guard a little bit because that position is wide open. The way that this offseason has played out, it's almost like it wouldn't be safe for Ezra Cleveland to start in the NFL going from Boise State. No, I would put chances of him starting out of the gate very low, and even chances of him starting this season, barring injury, of course, very low. Like,

this guy needs time. Like, that was, when Mike and I were watching Ezra Cleveland State, very good feet. Curtis Weaver said that to me as well. He's got the best feet in the draft, very quick. You have to, you have to lean on a toolbox, because you can't just beat him with pure speed. And that's why he went as high as he did. He didn't have elite production at Boise State from a pass blocking perspective. But when you have athleticism, feet like you do, and guys can't just win with speed, can't just win with bursts off the snap, that gives you a leg up on freaking half the NFL. These are tackles that literally can't get out of their stance, but have better technique, better power, all that type of stuff. But Ezra Cleveland, you kick him inside, you almost lose his best trait. Like, I mean, there's a reason they call

him phone booth types. You don't need to move that much. But his best trait is moving. His best trait is sticking with speed rushers on the outside. I think it'd be better for him to work behind, obviously, the two tacklers there, Brian O'Neill and Riley Reeves, and get great, be great at left or right tackle. Be great at that and working in training camp and practice during the season. You kick him inside for reps. I could see that just so because he needs to get stronger. And if you're going to get stronger, going against some of those beefier types would be great. But I would put chances low at him starting out of the gate. But I do think down the road, when you are ready to move on from Riley Reif,

I think Ezra Cleveland could be a foundational piece for this Vikings offensive line. He just needs to get stronger, and he needs to go against top-flight competition. Playing the Mountain West, he has not seen elite pass rushers outside the one he saw in practice, Curtis Weaver, and even he fell to day three of the draft. I think he needs experience. He needs the weight room. He needs the protein shakes. He needs all those things before he's going to be very good in the draft. I think he needs experience. He needs the weight room. He needs the protein shakes. He needs all those things

before he's going to be very good in the NFL. Hey, before we get back to the conversation, I want to remind you that sports are coming back and so are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. There's no better place to start than our exclusive partners, BetOnline. Get in on the action for this

week's big UFC fight or check out odds on NASCAR, Formula One, and the Premier League. Can't wait for your favorite team to come back. BetOnline has future odds on win totals, division winners, and even league championships. Or check out our daily simulations of Madden NBA 2K to watch and wager on. Visit BetOnline.ag. Use the promo code BLUEWIRE to receive your new welcome bonus.

That's promo code BLUEWIRE. BetOnline, your online wagering experts. And there's no bigger technical, in my opinion, technical difference from college to the NFL than playing on the offensive line, not only with what you're asked to do, but what they're asked to do and how good they are, the players you're going up against. Because my buddy Sage Rosenfels likes to make this point, that if you're a good edge rusher, you'll be in the league until you're 36. So most of these guys that are coming in on a weekly basis

are probably in their late 20s or their early 30s. They stay in the league for a long time, and they've got a lot of experience on how to whoop your ass. So it probably would be best for him. Plus, the Vikings have tackle depth. They have Ole Udo. They have Rashad Hill. These players can step in and play. For anybody in the late rounds here, this is, again, sort of an area where a lot of people liked what the Vikings did with someone like Troy Dye. I know that you guys were very high on Troy Dye. Shouldn't necessarily have a role right away. But anybody in those later rounds stand out to you as someone that could,

outside of Willekees, who we talked about, maybe surprise a little in terms of earning some type of role at their position? I'd say Brian Cole is an option. I mean, Brian Cole largely because, I mean, his tape wasn't great, but, like, he's a very good athlete, and good athletes find the football field in the NFL, specifically on special teams. I think a big thing for him comes down to mindset.

Like, if he's ready to approach the NFL as a business, approach it as I'm going to play special teams and be the best damn special teams player out there, I think he could have a lot of success early on. He's a name that not a lot of people are talking about, largely because his production, his film wasn't fantastic. He still has a lot of learning to do. But again, when you have those raw tools, taking flyers on guys like that can be important. So I think Willoughby's the guy we mentioned.

Troy Dye, I don't think he finds the field outside of special teams this year. And I think that's a good thing for the Minnesota Vikings. I think he's a great player. But you want Anthony Barr and Eric Hendricks and even Eric Wilson on the football field as much as you can. I think all three of those players have performed above expectations since entering the NFL. I got no other rookies for you, but I will say I was a huge

Hercules Mata'afa fan. If they could just figure him out, if they could just figure him out, whatever weight he's at now, if he can get back to even like 80% of what he was at Washington State, I think he'd be lights out because he was so good at Washington State. And obviously played an entirely different weight. He played an entirely different role almost. They played a lot of like pinball. I don't know if you – pinball tilt is when you're kind of like tilted

on the offensive linemen facing kind of like their side of their face and stuff. Like they did a bunch of crazy shit. Presnap pre-snap moving they like on down they set to move to a different angle like all that stuff was a lot he had a culture shock steam change going from Washington state to Minnesota so I feel like in addition to being asked probably to eat every single hour of your day he had to learn a lot of new things as well but if somehow some way you can stay healthy add the weight necessary, and learn the system, I really do like Hercules Mata'afa. Millennial Vikings fans will remember Henry Thomas lining up the way that you're describing.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Well, I just can't be super excited about Mata'afa because with his size everyone makes the like hey John Randall like yeah right that's an all-time outlier in John Randall who is one of the most gifted football players in the history of the game so that's you know and there's a lot more Hercules Mata'afas who have gone nowhere now he was mentioned again by Andre Patterson of a guy to keep an eye on. I just, when I see him go up against guards, I see him get swallowed.

I just see it like disappear. Wait, where'd he go? Oh, he's in the guard's stomach. That's where he went. And it's a tough one when the other guy you're going up against is probably longer than you, wider than you. And I don't know. I just feel like you have to have this unbelievable athleticism and burst and knowledge of the game and technique and all those things to play

at that slightly smaller size. And especially because, like, when your weaknesses are so obvious against the run, like, it makes things difficult to kind of play him. Like, obviously you can play him on passing downs, third downs, and those things, but, like, you can't get caught with him on early downs. You can't get caught in no huddle with Hercules Mata'afa playing first and second down. Like, it's going to make things very difficult against the run. Because he wasn't good against the run at Washington State.

Like, his best plays against the run were, you know, knifing through the backfield, finding a gap, shooting a gap. But, like, in the NFL, like, that's very rare. Like, Aaron Donald can knife a gap, shoot a gap. You need to play the man in front of you and beat him. That is the NFL. That is playing the run. And it's why they ask these big dudes like the guys they have in Baltimore,

Michael Pierce, Brandon Williams. Now they have Clayus Campbell. Like that's why they bring those guys in, to beat beefy dudes and beat the guy in front of you. Another guy I'll mention, Armond Watts, former Arkansas defensive tackle. Who's another guy that won early in the snap at Arkansas, but he had so few true pass rush opportunities. That's when no play action, five, seven step drop, no rollout,

any of that stuff, because they're always getting dogged. Arkansas was getting repped in the SEC every week. He was playing the run more than he was playing the pass. With the few opportunities he was able to pin his ears back. You saw a lot of impressive plays from Armond Watts. I'd love to see him in a situation where he could turn it on, pin his ears back, play the pass normally. I think he could have some success.

Yeah. No, I think you 100% nailed it with Armond Watts. If you watch Week 17 against Chicago, going up against starters, he was maybe the best player on the field. Nice. There were times where he reminded me a little bit of Sheldon Richardson, where if he beat his blocker and he took that one step, that drive, that acceleration toward the quarterback, he closed quickly on Mitch Trubisky. And it was really impressive. And I think he kind of blew them away a little bit when he got a chance last year. If you want to follow Austin on Twitter,

you can at PFF underscore Austin Gale, the one person who gets to use their whole name on Twitter, I guess in PFF. And I can't tell you enough how much I love the two for one podcast with you and Mike Renner. It is absolutely tremendous. Even when it's not draft FZN, Austin is the interviews you guys did through draft season and then have continued to do have been outstanding.

So love your work, and we'll catch up again sometime. And hopefully those rookies will be out there. We'll be watching them. Man, yeah, I'm crossing my fingers. I really appreciate you having me on.