Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Intriguing rookies on the schedule and what the Vikings can learn from the Chiefs

Episode Date: July 30, 2020

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like Shannon Sharp, Tony Gonzalez, Travis Kelsey, and George Kittle. We'll explore how the tight end position has changed over the last 60 years and what it takes to be the very best. Subscribe to TE1 from Blue Wire Studios today so you're ready for the August premiere. Hello and welcome into another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me from Pro Football Focus, he's their senior college analyst, Anthony Tresh. What's up, Anthony?

How much? How you doing? Do we want to talk about it? I don't know. We'll get to the good part, the good news of it. I know. You're covering college football there. We're covering the NFL. And just not too long ago, I'm seeing tweets from national personalities in the NFL on television talking about how reporters don't want football and I just want to go insane like there's nothing more in this world Anthony than people like you and I want than football but both college football that you cover and the NFL have about the most uphill of uphill challenges and

that's where I wanted to start with you with college football what is your feeling right now on how all this is going to work it It seems like different conferences are coming up with different plans and of course as soon as the Gophers get graded football a pandemic has to happen because it's Minnesota sports but what is your sense on how this is going to go with the college football season this year? Yeah I'm'm still hoping for the best, preparing for the best, but I mean, at the end of the day, the situation's not really not looking all too great. You know, when the NFL season's kind of on shaky ground, and then you're looking at college, and if students aren't going to be in the classroom, it's just very hard, you know, to contain. I mean, these rosters are massive in some cases, so it's just really hard to, you know, you can't really,

you know, put these guys in a bubble. You can't look after just really hard to, you know, you can't really, you know, put these guys in a bubble. You can't look after them 24-7, you know, if there's an outbreak. I mean, there's going to be if there's a college season. So, I mean, I'm cautiously optimistic. But, I mean, at the end of the day, I've got to be realistic with the whole situation. And, you know, it's not looking too great.

So I have not been following on the college side as closely, obviously, as the NFL as we get closer. The Big Ten is just going to play other Big Ten schools, and that's kind of the best they can come up with? Is that how – am I interpreting that correctly? Yeah, correct, correct. And it's going to be a really interesting situation just because, I mean, with some of the schools too, I mean, especially the group of five schools, because that's how they make their revenue playing, you know, the Big Ten, the SEC schools, they get paid a large sum of money and that's their revenue for the season. And now that's all gone. And so it's going to be really interesting to see how that all shakes out.

And, you know, especially whether or not, I mean, you're going to, I don't know, it's just, it's very different. You know, at the end of the day, you have some of these schools that are still traveling a great, you know, a great deal of mileage there a win, it wasn't going to be against an SEC or a Big Ten school more than likely. It was going to be against this group of five schools. So, I mean, it's a unique, interesting situation. And I'm glad that they kind of jumped the gun a little bit and are kind of saying this is what we're going to do. We're not even going to try and do the full length season. If we're going to do anything, it's going to be this. But I don't know.

I'm indifferent. So I want to run down some of the players that you covered their college careers that the Vikings will be facing because they have an interesting schedule of opposing rookies this year and get your take on the Vikings class which everyone at PFF seems to be very high on but let me ask you first about your take on the Gophers this year let's just pretend you and I I'm in my sun porch doing this, you're in your house, like, let's just pretend our little imagination world here that everything is okay, and we're going to play the season the way that they want to play it in the Big Ten.

Gophers have quite a team here, and finally, for the first time in a very, very long time, an exciting quarterback and a wide receiver in Rashad Bateman who could be, what, a first-round pick this year? I mean, this is a heck of a year to run into something like this for a Gophers program that's been on the rise. Oh, for sure. I mean, they have an absolute squad. I think they would have been, if anyone was going to give Ohio State fits, it would have been Minnesota. That's how good Tanner Morgan and Rashad Bateman is. And I was doing an article a couple weeks ago about building the perfect college wide receiver. And Rashad Bateman, his route running is second to none. I mean, he is the best route runner in college football. And you can give a lot of credit to P.J. Fleck

for that. I mean, you saw it with Tyler Johnson, how crafty he was. And you know, that's his background. That's P.J. Fleck's background Flex background I mean watching some of the videos and how he describes how he teaches these guys to run routes and how they just go over it constantly I mean it's really not surprising to see so I think he is definitely going to be a first round type of receiver I think he's definitely one of the three best wide receivers in this draft class you know I'm kind of I'm if there wasn't a season I'd be sad for the Golden Gophers because I think this has the potential to be a very special year for him I mean Tanner Morgan I mean going back to the same thing building the perfect college player quarterback his anticipation

in me is lights out I mean they can run that RPO slant all day long just pick up yards that's how they succeed on offense and then on the defensive side of the ball they have a lot of underrated players I know they lost Antoine Winfield who who was an absolute playmaker for him, of course, but then they have a great cornerback duo in St. Just. And Benjamin St. Just, too, he's a very unique guy because he was a highly coveted recruit, went to Michigan, was flirting with career retirement there for a little bit due to an injury. But then he came back, transferred to Minnesota, and he looks like a very good press corner, and I'm very excited to see him in the next college football season he plays because I think he's going to skyrocket. So I think there was a lot

of talented pieces to this Minnesota team, and I mean, whether it's 2020 or 2021, I'm excited to watch him. And with P.J. Fleck, he comes to Minnesota, and of course, this is not, I don't know how familiar you are with Minnesota culture, but not a place where people jump right in on, let's say, the boat, so to speak, when it comes to somebody who's bombastic and over the top. But with P.J. Fleck, yeah, there's a lot of that, of course, when you listen to his interviews and things like that. But from the coaching side, to see the number of players progress the way that they have, to see the offense and the way it plays to what Tanner Morgan does extremely well, and then the recruits that he's been able to bring in, it really is a program that's on a different level than it's been maybe ever. Oh, for sure.

There's no doubt about that. And, you know, like I said, watching him, I mean, I'm ready to run through a brick wall when I listen and watch this guy. I mean, if I were, you know, a recruit coming out highly coveted and Minnesota offered me, I'd be very considering to go there because of P.J. Fleck and what he brings to the table. Because this guy, you know, from start to finish, he breathes them into NFL caliber players like he did with Corey Davis at Western Michigan. So, I mean, he has a background of doing that.

And, yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. This would be perhaps one of their best teams in a very long time. And I think last year, you know, you really saw it. It was the best offense by far they've ever had in the PFF college era, the most efficient for sure. So what I wanted you to talk about on the show, because we could talk Gophers and where they're going and how much they might be getting screwed for quite a while. But there are other podcasts for that. So let's talk about

who the Vikings are facing with some of these rookies. And the Packers are the first team on the schedule for the Vikings. That was a draft. Remember that? That feels like a really, really long time ago. But of course, Jordan Love, we're not going to see him unless COVID gets in the way of Aaron Rodgers and then Jordan Love has to play. But the rest of this draft, Anthony, it really baffled me. I mean, I would have thought if you're the Vikings and you just saw the Packers go 13-3, but Aaron Rodgers had a kind of up-and-down sort of season,

you would have thought, please don't get a great playmaking receiver. The last thing we want to see Rodgers with is a playmaking receiver who can get the ball too quickly and can run after catch. And the Packers said, okay, we won't. We'll get a running back instead. Was there something that I missed when it came to their draft? Is there somebody that the Packers actually should be excited about, but it was overshadowed? Or was it really as bad as it seems? No, it was really as bad as it seems. And I think we were all very confused by that. I mean, quite frankly, I was shocked. And I mean, I kept thinking, you know, maybe they're circling this

wide receiver. They think I can get him, you know, later on, maybe early day three or something. But it just wasn't there. It never came up. And they ended up taking Jordan Love in the first round. And I mean, if I'm Aaron Rodgers, I'd be calling and making sure I want to get out of Green Bay just because that's a very, you know, kind of a, I don't know how to put it, kind of a rude move, it seems, just because too, Jordan Love is more of a projection. He wasn't no slam dunk prospect. You know, he definitely had his downsides to him as a prospect. And so, I mean, it just didn't really, you know, come together. And A.J. Dillon, too, taking him that early, I mean,

he's the definition of a great college player, but not a good prospect. You see him all the time. And with the general fan, they'll just look at the box for stats like A.J. Dillon, and it's easy to get excited over those, but then you have to look at him and actually watch him, and you're just, he's really not an NFL caliber type of guy, so I mean, there's really no, nothing to really get excited about, about that draft, I mean, it was, it was very confusing to me, that's for sure. The A.J. Dillon thing, if someone these days is going to be a running back who's taken that high, I think you've got to be amazing.

I mean, we look at even Delvin Cook, and I know there were some character issues that have not played out at all in Minnesota, but around draft time there were, but a talent like him goes in the second round. And the NFL has even gone farther away from running backs since then with someone like Leonard Fournette going bust. And the first running back in this draft last year is, or this year I guess we'll call it, is 32nd. And so if you're drafting a running back, I mean, you've got to really believe in that guy because you know that you can get them farther down the board that you're still going to get good prospects. And to not do that, and when you have Aaron Jones in place already for the next year and you can always draft a rookie and they can step in right away it's one of the rare positions that it works it just boggles the mind Anthony. Exactly and if you're taking a running back I mean we don't condone taking a running back even

in day two I mean maybe very late day two and they have to be a top-notch receiver. I mean, they have to be a very much Christian McCaffrey, Alvin Kamara, Tariq Cohen type of difference maker in the receiving game. And, you know, A.J. Dillon's just not that type of guy. And so that's, when you're looking at, you know, running back value at the college level, in the NFL level, it's very different. I mean, you know, we talk about running backs don't matter at the NFL level, and that's true, but at the college level, that's really not always true. I mean, college running backs do matter to a certain degree because of the talent disparity is just so massive against some of these teams, where some of the times they are a difference

maker. So that's where the perception's just a little bit off. Last thing on the Packers, Jordan Love, there were some draft analysts who were in with his talent, anyway, with the arm talent, with the athleticism and so forth, but I put it under the Josh Allen category of why didn't you destroy everyone in that conference? And if you didn't, then I'm going to question you until you prove that you're really good in the NFL. Spending a draft pick that high on someone who just didn't even put up numbers at Utah State, it's hard to justify, especially when Aaron Rodgers is in his last great years, and it feels like they were just trying to repeat Aaron Rodgers, and that situation

might be a once in a lifetime exactly and I mean it's funny you bring up Josh Allen because I was doing some numbers throughout the draft process and looking back at all the first round quarterbacks over the last few years and what they're at college we have a thing called college wins above average which is basically just war but instead of of a replacement player, it's an average player, just because you can't pick up a replacement level player off the street in college. And the only two players that didn't really produce much, many wins above average that were taken in the first round by a quarterback were Josh Allen and Jordan Love.

Josh Allen was actually on the negative side of the spectrum. He actually produced less wins above average. And then Jordan Love was just pretty much right at zero. And then there was a huge gap between the other first round quarterbacks. And you have Justin Herbert and Josh Rosen who were just right after them. I mean, I completely agree with you where, I mean, it's easy to fall in love with that arm strength. I mean, if he has an open receiver, five yards, no corner DB behind him, I mean, he can hit him. That's for sure. But as soon as it's a tight window, the guy just collapses. And you saw it routinely. There's consistent accuracy issues. He had a concerning rate of

quarterback fault incompletions and a very, very high rate of turnover worthy plays. And that volatility just won't hold up. I mean, if it's not holding up in the Mountain West, it's not going to hold up in the NFC North. And the turnovers are one of the biggest things or turnover worthy plays that translates to the NFL consistently. And even this is the thing that everyone overlooked with Jameis Winston is that a couple of years in a row in college football, he was the leader in interceptions and everyone just went, no, no, no, it's fine. He's a great prospect. He won't do that in the NFL. Well, 30 interceptions later last year, still some people think he's a great prospect he won't do that in the NFL well 30 interceptions later last year still some people think he's good somehow but uh you know that's the thing that he's always going

to do and if you're looking at Jordan Love you would have that concern as well so down the road maybe the Packers forgot they also drafted Brian Brom and Brett Hundley as well so they're not the geniuses maybe they think they are but aside from the Packers who amazingly will get basically no impact whatsoever out of their rookies this year there are some teams on the schedule that have really interesting guys and with the Colts Michael Pittman Jr. was one of those where we made a list uh you know a couple of hosts and reporters made a list of guys that we thought like our sure thing list.

And Michael Pittman was one of the ones that I had on my list because anytime I see route running intelligence, those usually transfer over pretty quickly as opposed to, Hey, this guy's a freak athlete. Exactly. And I mean, Michael Pittman Jr. is that guy. And his ball skills are phenomenal. I mean, he's going to be the perfect possession receiver for Phillip Rivers. And we were looking at the other guys in the offense too. You had T.Y. Hilton, who's a fantastic deep threat. I mean, you saw it with Andrew Luck that obviously took a hit with Jacoby Brissett. And then Paris Campbell too. A lot of people forget about him. He was mostly hurt in his rookie season, pretty much just took a red shirt year, didn't really do anything. But back at Ohio State, I mean, he was just an absolute weapon underneath. So all of these guys complement each other very well. And I would have to say out of all the

first or out of all the top receivers taken in this draft, I think Michael Pittman Jr. has a chance to put up the best production in year one. Indianapolis is an interesting one because I've gone back and forth with several different people, including your buddy, Eric Eager from Pro Football Focus, who sees the Colts as a better team than the Vikings, or at least that they should win that game in Indianapolis. And I'm a little conflicted because Phillip Rivers last year got them close many times, but also looked pretty washed at times and with as

bizarre as this offseason has been even with pitman i like him a lot you like him a lot but you're asking a lot of a rookie to step in i guess i just don't know how to feel about indianapolis and even the whole afc south sort of baffles me, Anthony. Yeah, I mean, and rightfully so. And what really kind of brings me in why I like Indianapolis and Phillip Rivers is that he's still accurate. I mean, sometimes the decision-making is a little rough and sometimes a little gunslinger-like tendencies there. I mean, we were talking about those turnover-worthy plays,

and he had a concerning amount last season. But he's still accurate with the football downfield, and that's something Jacoby Brissett wasn't. I mean, Jacoby Brissett was one of the least accurate passers in the NFL when throwing 10 or more yards downfield. And you had Phillip Rivers, who was in the top 10. And if I recall correctly, might even be in the top five. So I think that's what kind of, you know, really brings me in.

And I think the biggest thing that I was kind of disappointed in this offseason was them trading the 13th overall pick for DeForest Buckner and then paying him Aaron Donald-like money. And so I think that was kind of a little suspect decision, I think. But I think Chris Ballard and Frank Reich, they're doing great things in Indianapolis. And, I mean, even though they did that, like I said, Michael Pittman Jr., getting him where they did early in the second round, I think that's really going to help them out.

Yeah, that Buckner move I looked at is, Phillip Rivers is going to be our quarterback this year and probably not much longer. So let's, instead of trying to develop somebody there, let's get in someone we know is very good. But I'm not sure that it's the best way to spend that money. There are a lot of good interior defensive linemen these days. And if you're going to pay someone, it better be Aaron Donald. I think we're saying that

about quite a few positions these days. The Detroit Lions are another team, Anthony, that we debate over all the time. It's like Matt Patricia's their coach, so it's pretty hard to buy into them, but the combination of DeAndre Swift, Jeff Okuda with their first two picks, those are two guys who could make serious impacts right away. And if they do get halfway decent coaching from Matt Patricia, I look at the Lions as a serious threat for this division, in part because of those two guys don't draft running backs. But if you do, they might help you right away in someone like DeAndre Swift

with an offense that has already pretty good weapons. Yeah, for sure. And then, like I mentioned earlier, if you're taking a running back that early, again, we wouldn't take one 35th overall. But if you're taking one that early, you want to see him be a good receiver. And DeAndre Swift was definitely the best receiving running back in this class hands down. And people forget, too, before Matthew Stafford got hurt, he was playing at an MVP-like level. I mean, he was firing on all cylinders downfield. I mean, that was kind of one of the most disappointing injuries I was kind of bummed out about last season, too.

But, man, with Jeff Okuda, the third overall pick, I think if I kind of comped him to, you know, the Michelangelo's David, if you were to craft a perfect cornerback, it would be Jeff Okuda. I mean, he has all the physical tools you could possibly want at the position. I mean, he's going to fit like a glove into that scheme. And I don't think he's going to grade out particularly well in year one, just because he's going to be in single coverage a lot. And that's really going to hurt him just because if you're going to get targeted in single coverage more often than not, it's going to be because the receiver has separation, and that's going to be pretty bad on your part, whereas in zone and all that.

So I think in the long run, Jeff Okuda is going to be a very good player for them too. And I mean, they also added Desmond Trufant. I mean, he's still playing at a very high level. So I think that's going to be a very formidable secondary. And I really liked what they did after those guys too, with Julian Okora. I mean, again, the physical tools are there.

He's coming off a very bad injury. And if he didn't have that injury, we probably would have saw him pick 30 picks earlier than they got him. So I think that was a very good steal. And then the two interior offensive linemen after that, Jonah Jackson and Logan Sternberg, just nasty type of players. So I think they really did a great job in this draft. And if they have a healthy Matthew Stafford,

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It's just the coaching. Like, if the coaching is not disastrous. And they did add defensive talent in free agency, too. And I know that one thing PFF has been focusing on in some of the studies is, is it better to have superstar players or a lot of really good players on defense? I mean, both is preferable. But I think they filled in a lot of the gaping on defense. I mean, both is preferable, but I think they filled in a lot of the gaping holes that they had on that defense. It's just, can Matt Patricia actually

coach them? That we have not seen yet so far. One more team I wanted to ask you about on the Vikings schedule, one more player specifically, who is one of my absolute favorite college players to watch in a really long time, CeeD. Lamb. If you get him the football, he will gain 30 or 40 yards on a short pass. If you throw it up, he's going to go get it. I mean, Jalen Hurts, I like Jalen Hurts maybe more than some other people, but C.D. Lamb is the main reason Jalen Hurts was awesome and put up those incredible stats. Now he comes with a Dallas team that has a ton of weapons. I think this is a game that maybe Vikings fans think, oh, it's at US Bank Stadium. They should beat Dallas. But I look at that Dallas offense. I mean, it could be a monster. Oh, I know. I don't know how the NFL let the

Dallas Cowboys get CeeDee Lamb. I have no idea. And even if you didn't have him on your board and you're picking ahead of Dallas, I would be like, I just don't want them to get him. There's no reason why they should because that receiving unit is just absolutely loaded now with Amari Cooper and you add CeeDee Lamb to it. I mean, that's just a very potent offense and, you know, Dak Prescott, you know, it's kind of a growing debate whether or not he should get paid, shouldn't get paid. He's still a very good quarterback. I would put him in that easily top 10 category. So I think that's going to be a very tough defense or very tough offense for Minnesota to face. And when you're looking at CeeDee Lamb

as a prospect, I mean, Amari Cooper was the top prospect, wide receiver prospect we've ever come across here. Jerry Judy was second, but right behind Jerry Judy. I mean, it was a toss up between him and CeeDee Lamb for that spot. I mean, he is a very advanced type player. He can do anything you could possibly imagine. So I think he's going to really do wonders for that offense. And I think if you got teams doubling Amari, leaving him open, I mean, it's just going to be game over. And the running after catch is super fun to watch with CeeDee Lamb because he just runs past people or runs through them if he wants to.

So if you want to just put him into a certain role early on because he's a rookie and it's going to be hard for rookies this year, you can do it. I think the same thing for Justin Jefferson. But I have a question for you as someone who would have watched LSU closely last year. Was it more Joe Burrow making Justin Jefferson, Justin Jefferson making Joe Burrow, or just perfect combination between those two? I think I would lean more towards Joe Burrow making Justin Jefferson because with any other quarterback in college football, he's not having those numbers.

I mean, plain and simple. And I think we're going to see that with Jamar Chase this year, who's definitely the top wide receiver prospect. And I think we were talking about it with Mike Renner, too, our lead draft analyst, and he thinks that Jamar Chase is going to kind of slip down some people's boards because of the production drop-off. And so I think, you know, Joe Burrow delivering accurate ball after accurate ball. I mean, he delivered the most, he had the highest accurate target rate than anyone in college football last year your Justin Jefferson did.

And so, I mean, I do like Justin Jefferson, what he does. He's a crafty type of player. He knows how to find the hole in zone and he has very top-notch ball skills. But I would say if Joe Burrow wasn't throwing him the ball, and maybe say it's Miles Brennan, who's they're going to be their starting quarterback this year. I don't think he's getting taken probably that early. Most of that production was schemed, but I do like him him I think he's going to do great things for Minnesota but I that's kind of the bigger reason why we here at

BFF weren't as high as the NFL was in Justin Jefferson yeah I mean I could see that their offense had receivers on top of receivers and Jamar Chase drawing a lot of attention himself. I mean, the fact that when LSU played against Cam Dantzler, who was in your star shutdown corner, Dantzler is following Jamar Chase, right? So, and the fact that they moved Jefferson around so much, I think you can do that a lot in the NFL, but you can't do it all the time. I was looking at the numbers for slot percentage. Adam Thielen's like 27%, Diggs was 19%, and Jefferson was 92% of his snaps were taken in

the slot. So I think he's going to have a lot of adjusting to do here in his first year. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. I mean, that was our biggest concern too, is that we never really saw him get off of press coverage. And that's the number one thing you want to see from a prospect. So that was our bigger reservation on him, for sure. And you brought up Cameron Dantzler, too. I mean, when a guy allows, I mean, combined against LSU and Alabama, two historic wide receiver units, and he gives up a combined 21 yards, I mean, you have to get excited about that type of guy. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about him because I got a couple of questions last week from Vikings fans about, like, is Dantzler a better prospect than even Jeff Gladney?

And I would say no, but it's exciting what he did in college. He's the guy with the production but doesn't have really those physical numbers. When you look at what percentile athlete Cam Dantzler is, it's like a 30th percentile athlete. And I went through, and I'm sure you've played with this before, relative athletic scores, takes all those combined scores, height, weight, mixes them in. And when you go through guys in the 30th percentile of athleticism, it's hard to find too many stars. I like a lot about Cameron Dantzler. I like a lot about his film, but that does make you go,

okay, let's see what's here first before we get too excited. Yeah, exactly, and that was the biggest reason why he slept as far as he did in the draft. I mean, if he just had maybe 15 more pounds of muscle to his frame, ran a 40 time, That was maybe two-tenths of a second quicker. And we were talking about a first-round corner. And so when you get down to the nitty-gritty there, and our guys, Timo Riske and Kevin Cole, they kind of broke us down. You know, how much does athleticism matter in the NFL? And I think it was more – we would have taken Cameron Dantzler way earlier

just because we didn't really view that the athleticism was that big of a difference there where he should have you know fallen as far as he did yeah his production is is incredible I think it was 41 completion percentage people throwing at him in the SEC um the Vikings drafted everyone in college football so before we wrap up I just want to open the door they They picked 15 players. We've talked about two. Who else stuck out to you? Was there anybody down the board where you thought,

boy, if you watch this guy in college, he was a freaking beast, and they landed him? Because everybody across the board, PFF or outside analysts, loved what the Vikings did, not just at the top with two first-rounders. Like, congratulations, you got an A for the first night with two first-rounders. But the rest of got an A for the first night with two first rounders. But the rest of the draft, they have a lot of very interesting prospects. Yeah, and, you know, I wouldn't say down the draft.

I think the guy that sticks out for me is Jeff Gladney. I don't understand why people – I mean, he wasn't really getting, you know, called on much because he played for TCU like Cameron Dantzler. I feel like Cameron Dantzler was getting hyped up more than Jeff Gladney because he played for Mississippi State. I mean, this guy rarely lost downfield. He was incredibly sticky. He had one of the highest rates for some tight coverage downfield,

and the amount of times he lost was minimal. I think it was 76 times he forced tight coverage on throws 10 or more yards over the last two years around allowed somewhere around 19 catches and combined for 26 interceptions and forced incompletions I mean that right there just kind of shows what type of player he is he plays a lot bigger than his size and I think whether he's in the slot or he's outside I think he's going to be a great corner for a very kind of depleted unit for Minnesota he's one of those guys where I think that you can see the competitiveness when you just watch on tape.

And it's not that, you know, YouTube breakdown videos or whatever are always the best for watching some of these cornerbacks because, you know, if you're watching the TV copy, it's hard to see. But with him, it stands out pretty quickly that he is a dogged competitor. And if you're that, then I think you're going to have a chance in the NFL if you've got the raw talent now I know that we were just talking to start this podcast Anthony about college football and the chance that it happens and everything else but you have worked your behind off on the college football preview for pro football focus. So let's just, again, assume that things go the best case

scenario. Tell us about this college football preview. Yeah, I mean, it's been it's been a grind for the last couple months for sure. I mean, there was a 30 hour swing where I worked nonstop staring at my computer this last week. But I mean, this thing is going to be 350 pages long, full of any and all advanced data you can think of a college football that you're really not going to find anywhere else so that'll be out sometime within the next few weeks if I had to guess but I highly recommend checking it out whether you're an NFL fan college fan you know interested in fantasy there's going to be something of value in there so highly recommend I mean I'm kind of biased so it's kind of a bad sales pitch here but no I think it's going to be it's going to be something of value in there. So highly recommend. I mean, I'm kind of biased, so it was kind of a bad sales pitch here, but no,

I think it's going to be, it's going to be awesome. You know, the finished product. So here in a couple of weeks over at BFF.com, it'll be dropping there along with some college subscriptions to kind of a sneak preview. So that too, some college premium sets. Well, we'll help you out a little bit and just tell people that your work is terrific, that you go deep in depth on college football, and I really enjoy following you on Twitter.

It's PFF underscore Anthony, but really like reading your work because of how deep you're able to dive into it, and I highly suggest people check it out. So good luck to all of us, basically. I'm going to end every podcast until we actually play a football game with best of luck to all of us because we really do need football to work here anthony trash uh great stuff man thanks for coming on this was really fun yeah thanks for having me we'll get back to the conversation in just a second but have you ever heard of deal dash dot com it's the best most honest bidding site where you can win things you'd never expect at a price that you'd never believe. They have over 1,000 auctions every day on electronics, appliances, beauty products, home decor, even cars. Here's how it works. It's like an auction, but every item starts at $0 and then goes up 1 cent every time you bid.

The kicker is that the auction clock restarts every 10 seconds. That means every time you bid, everyone else has 10 seconds to answer or the item is yours. If you go ahead and buy now, DealDash is offering up our listeners 100 free bids upon sign-up on top of their other discounts. Go to DealDash.com and use the offer code INSIDER. DealDash.com.fm slash insider. That is D-E-A-L-D-A-S-H.fm slash insider. Joining me on the show from Arrowhead Live, Justin Dupengeiser. And I'll tell you why I have no problem pronouncing Dupengeiser

is because Justin was not only from my hometown, but also the quarterback on our modified junior high football team. And you know what, Justin, I must say, a good quarterback as well, great leadership skills, and you could throw the deep ball like very few other eighth graders. Well, you know, I appreciate that very much. And yes, good job on the pronunciation. Very intimidating last name, but you nailed it. Yeah, eighth grade, we, you know, we had a very fast kid, which made it very easy. And I happened to be able to just be able to chuck it out there to him. And I don up, and they're running towards the line of scrimmage, and he's running all by himself down the sidelines as a wide receiver, and I just threw it out there, and he did all the work. Made me look good. And shout out to Phil. I hope he's doing good these days.

The fastest eighth grader I have ever seen. In practice, they would put me – I played safety, but I would have to play corner sometimes. He would just run right by me. I was like, I don't know. What do you want me to do about it? I was also bad. I was like, I don't know. What do you want me to do about it? I was also bad. I was not a very good player. I,

but I did have one particular job that made me feel good is I would stand on the sideline next to the coach. He would give me the play and then I would run in. So it would be like, that was my job. I would give the defensive play. I had no idea what most of them meant, but you know what? Our team wasn't half bad, Justin. No, it wasn't. And you know what? Our team wasn't half bad, Justin. No, it wasn't. And you know what? Everybody's got to have their job.

And as long as you're doing your job, that's all that matters. You make a good teammate if you're doing your job. And you and I have more connections than this because I went to Brockport for college, where, of course, I did not play football. But we had actually a bad football team when I got there. You became a coach on the staff, and then they got really good. I was like, oh, of course, when I leave, and I was doing things for the school newspaper and stuff. When I leave, then our school has a sports team that's actually good.

So very cool experience for you. You also coach high school now, and you write and talk about the Chiefs on your podcast, which is called, what, Coach's Corner, correct? Yeah, Coach's Corner. And, yeah, Brockport went through a little down spell there, but then even the first year I was there, we were only 5-5, but then we went 7-3, two undefeated seasons in a row, back-to-back Empire 8 champions, played in the Final four in texas

against mary hart and baylor who actually are in some hot water they just had their championship rescinded from that year that they won and beat us for uh coaches giving i think it was a vehicle to a student and obviously the ncaa they don't allow that stuff so um but they were an incredible football team but yeah brockport was great. Yeah. And doing my thing over on Arrowhead live now and, and coaching high school football and staying around the game as much as possible. That is awesome. Well,

shout out D3 because every once in a while you get your Pierre Garçon or you get your Fred Jackson from D3 becoming good NFL players. And it was really cool to have my alma mater, which I never expected ever to be in a Final Four, and you were on the coaching staff. So that's awesome. But the reason I brought you on, aside from just to talk about our junior high team and Brockport Golden Eagles football,

is actually to talk about the Kansas City Chiefs, who you've been covering, and how you win a Super Bowl. And I know that the first answer, and I talked about this with Mike Tenier from Football Outsiders the other day about just, you know, it's Mahomes. Like, we know it's Mahomes. But there's a lot more to it. So as a guy who has coached football, when you look at Andy Reid as one of the great coaches that has ever existed in the NFL,

I think it really does all start there, not with just spotting Mahomes, but also planning an offense that works for him. So what do you see from sort of the coach's vision on what Andy Reid did with that offense to make it as explosive as it is around an all-time talented quarterback? Yeah, and I think the thing that has made Andy Reid so great in one of the all-time greats, and now he's got a Super Bowl, so put a stamp on it, man. He's a Hall of Famer. He's one of the best coaches of all time is his adaptability, right?

Most of the coaches that you see that don't make it in the league are the coaches that can't adapt. Chip Kelly, who is one of my favorite coaches in college, and I love everything he did offensively, he came into the league with his offense, and he just couldn't adapt it past his first year where defenses figure things out, but Andy Reid has adapted, right? He took his West Coast offense, which was his staple four years in Philadelphia with, you know, Donovan McNabb doing his thing out there. And he went, all right, what does Pat Mahomes do really well? Well, he is out of shotguns most of the time.

He runs all these air raid schemes. He gets in all these different three, three by one sets, two by two sets. And he just slings it around and he lets them do his thing. They went to, you know, a heavy zone scheme and RPO scheme, which is, you know, now everybody's kind of running the RPO stuff, but I don't think that there's anybody in the NFL that does the RPOs better than Pat Mahomes right now. And it's a lot of it is he, one, he has the ability and the arm talent to make throws that other people can, but he's also incredibly intelligent, which is, I think one of the things that gets kind of forgotten because of

the amazing physical ability that he does have. There's something that I think about with just the Vikings, because everything is through a Vikings lens here. So it's kind of like, what can you borrow from the Kansas City Chiefs to have a successful Vikings team? Or what should you learn? Because every year it's, well, they won the Super Bowl doing this. And in a way, thank goodness Mahomes made that, what was it, third and 15 pass because if he didn't, we'd be hearing about the running game all the time. Like, oh, the 49ers won with running defense,

even though Jimmy Garoppolo is 21-5 as a starting quarterback. But anyway, that's aside from the point. And I think about also it's Andy Reid and forming this offense that fits perfectly to his quarterback, which the Vikings have done as well. But also anybody that Patrick Mahomes throws the football to has the capability of catching the football and running very far with it. They're all Phil from our modified team.

There is so much speed on this roster, and they always find, like every coach says this yeah I've got to get those playmakers in space but I think that that's even something the Vikings could do better this year and take some of the the ideas out of Kansas City's offense so what did you see that was creative in terms of getting those playmakers the ball the Tyree, the Hardmans, guys like that. Yeah, I think, like you said, the speed is one thing. And then what Andy Reid and Eric Biennemi are able to do is they are able to move those guys around and create matchups that they want that are favorable. They run pre-snap motions at a higher rate just about than anybody else in the NFL. You look at the teams that

were good on offense last year, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the 49ers, those teams all run a ton of pre-snap motion and that enables you to get the matchups that you want. Now when you, and I can think of a play against, I believe it was the Titans, they run a three-by-one set with a little short motion by McColl Hardman and now all of a sudden, okay, they know they got man-to-man coverage. He runs a little over route. The safety bites on it. Now you have Tyreek Hill one-on-one in the seam for an easy touchdown pass because he's the fastest receiver in the NFL,

and you can't match up with him one-on-one. The other thing that I think is huge for them is that they have a tight end that they can line up who is as good as a receiver, basically, when he's in one-on-one matchups. You can't put a linebacker on him. You can't put a safety on him. And you really can't put a cornerback on him because he's just too big and he's too fast. They have really taken everything that they're good at and put the players out there just to make it even more explosive. They added McCole Hardman.

They have Sammy Watkins, who is almost lost in this offense because they have so many other good weapons. But when he's the third or fourth option, you saw what he did in the Super Bowl. He had a one-on-one matchup against Richard Sherman and just flat ran by him. And that's an easy completion, and that's how you get explosive plays. We'll get back to football in just a second, but first, sports are coming back. So are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. Major League Baseball finally kicking off, and there's no better place to start wagering

than our exclusive partners, BetOnline. Check out all the odds, features, and props to bet on, all available at 24-7. So with the return of sports, BetOnline sat down with former players eddie george harold reynolds and seven-time champion robert ory see what they had to say and what it's like playing without fans in a series they're calling it fandemic visit bet online.ag for all of your odds and up-to-date sports news and remember to use the promo code blue wire to receive your new welcome bonus that's promo code blue wire bet online your online, you're an online wagering expert. I think what the Sammy Watkins thing with him coming up at the biggest times,

not just in the Super Bowl with a huge couple of catches, but just throughout the playoffs, is that when you get into the playoffs, and the Vikings certainly found this out playing against San Francisco last year, the other team knows exactly what you do well, and they are going to scheme the hell out of stopping that. Everybody has figured out it's not just Belichick doing this anymore. It's everybody is going to take away your best player. So you have to plan on, well, all right, how are they going to take away, last year would have been Stephon Diggs, but you know it's going to be Adam Thielen now. How are they going to take away

Delvin Cook, and who's going to step up in that place? And when the Vikings did play against the Patriots a couple years ago, they didn't take away Cook on the ground, but they did through the air. And then they also took away Thielen and Diggs, double teams, and things like that. And it was like, we're going to force you to throw to Laquan Treadwell. And this is a problem the Vikings still kind of have. And that's one of those where it's like, you can't stop everybody if we have five or six different guys who could do anything with the ball in their hands.

I wonder what you think about the running back position and the Chiefs. Because everybody who is a running back for the Chiefs averages four and a half to five yards to carry. And they get a bunch of catches and average 10 yards for reception. Do you think that it's a very different offense from what the Vikings do, but do you think that, that running backs can be schemed as we look at Delvin cook and the contract situation, all that, or is it that they just know what they're looking for and are able to find

guys who fit really well in that. I think it's pretty specific when you come to like Andy Reid and the Kansas City Chiefs because if you look at Andy Reid's career, Andy Reid has always been able to scheme his running backs into success, right? Wherever he's been forever, he's been one of the best screen guys in the game, right? He's able to draw the screens up and anybody that you ever talk to that has played for him, even O'Lyman Jeff Schwartz has talked about it in depth on Twitter about how good he was and how specific he was, even for the linemen about where they're going, what their landmarks are, who they're blocking in this situation. And he always dials them up. It seems

to be at the right time. Now in this offense, I think it's almost easier because of the way that the Chiefs are able to spread teams out because you just simply can't play single high against them, right? Most of the time, you're going to have to put two safeties out there, which is going to lead to the ability to have less people in the box, which is favorable towards running backs. And the Chiefs don't even have a great run-blocking offensive line. Even the guys that they have up front are tailor-made to pass block, right? Their interior offensive line is one of the weaker groups in the league, but they're benefited from the ability of Pat Mahomes.

It's the Pat Mahomes effect. He just kind of trickles down in every little aspect you see of the game. But then they bring in a guy like Clyde Edwards-Hilaire, whose skill set is like tailor made for the Chiefs offense, right? He catches the ball out of the backfield. He can run the inside and the outside zones. He's going to make guys miss in the open field. It's just, he's going to be a nightmare matchup. Again, it's just another guy who, when you get in one-on-one situations, which is the old cliche, is when you get in one-on-one situations, you have to win.

These guys got situations across the field where if they get one-on-one, they're going to be able to win. Another example of the Chiefs just saying, let's see, do we have enough offensive weapon? No, let's add one more. Just get another guy who hit the ball in his hands and make plays. Very different. Interesting that you bring that up, that opposing teams, because of Mahomes, have to play two deep safeties. Because against the Vikings, with Delvin Cook, this is one of the reasons to sign him,

is that other teams play single high all the time against the Vikings. And there was only a couple teams last year who continued to play two deep safeties and actually kind of worked for them at times. But if they missed a tackle on Delvin Cook or something, he was going to take over the entire game. So it's fascinating how opponents will have to kind of evaluate, like, which way do you want to go with that? Because I think with Kirk Cousins, when he faces a single high, he can actually take advantage of that in a lot of different ways, especially, you know, with the play action and things like that. Now on the defensive side with the Chiefs, they signed Chris Jones through a huge

contract. Vikings fans would sign off on that one after he ate their face in Kansas City. Like, Matt Moore gets the win next to his name. Chris Jones could have gotten the win next to his. Defensive tackle wins are a new stat. Yes, new stat. But my question is this, though. I know that in today's game, you have to have a top five offense to get to the Super Bowl. Everybody since the Broncos in 2015 has had a top five offense in terms of points scored. How good of a defense do you need to have? The biggest thing to me, and I've kind of thought this for a while, when it comes to defense is you have to have the ability to not give up points. You can give up as many yards as you want from the 20 to 20, but if you're forcing teams to kick field goals, you're winning,

especially a team like the Chiefs, where it's a high-scoring offense. If you're kicking field goals against the Chiefs, you're losing. I mean, it's pretty simple. And it's something that even if you look at the Patriots teams, the Patriots defenses who have been widely regarded as one of the best, better defenses in the NFL over the past decade since Belichick's been there, they give up a lot of yards, but they don't give up points. And that's a big thing to me.

And it's also now you look at it, giving up the run game is not a huge deal. I don't want to say because, I mean, you do get hurt in it. The Chiefs lost the regular season game against the Titans because Derrick Henry ran for like a billion yards against them. But when it comes down to it, it's a passing league. You have to be able to stop the pass. And if you can do that at an efficient rate, you're going to have a good enough defense to give yourself a chance to win. Now, philosophically speaking, I wonder what you think of this, because Mike Zimmer has long believed if you can stop the 50% of first down runs and get teams in second and long, that your percentages, they don't run as much play action out of second and long,

of course, which is where you get your huge gains a lot of times. And teams really don't run a ton in second and long. In fact, all the data says don't ever run second and long. So you can predict exactly what they're going to do if you could stuff the first down runs. I wonder as teams look at the Chiefs, and everyone knows they're not going to have Mahomes, but they're also going to say this is an offense that just passes and passes and passes and passes. Do you think that we're going to go, as we just go into the future here, into teams passing 80% of the time? Like, what's the max on that?

Because I wonder about Zimmer's defense and his philosophy that's been successful for so long. But if teams start coming in and playing the Vikings and throwing 70% of first downs, and you have run stuffers in on the defensive line, I think it's going to change the math a little. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the analytics and believe in the analytics, you should be throwing the ball 80% of the time, because the more you throw the ball, the more points added per play you're going to have. The most efficient way to score points is throwing the ball in the NFL.

And if you, even if you look at the rules, the way the rules in the NFL are set up, they all favor pass I mean it's just how it works nowadays and I think that if you look again at the teams that have successful offenses in the past couple years especially last year it's the teams that are throwing the ball on first down the Chiefs threw the ball as much as any team in the league on first down and when you do that you are going to be successful because even if it's a seven yard gain, now you're in second three and you have the option, you can run it or you can throw it. Now, like you said, if you go out there and run the ball on first down and you're second at nine, well then, okay, pretty much you're going to throw the ball and now defenses can scheme up those blitzes that our defensive coordinators are so good at in those pressure

type situations. You can really get behind the chains in that in those types of situations right there's always going to be something to whoop in somebody's ass on the ground that is super fun and takes all the pressure off everybody else and offensive linemen love it and nobody loves it more than the quarterback the Vikings won a game where Kirk Cousins threw 10 passes and you've got to think he's like I don't even have to shower after the game. I get a win in the column here, and I basically took the day off, and Sean Mannion could have won that one. So, I mean, there's always going to be value for that.

Setting up the pass to look like the run is always going to be valuable, and, you know, Gary Kubiak is brilliant and always has been at doing that. But I think as the Vikings go forward into the second era of Zimmer, they might have to be a little more flexible in this. And also maybe last year partly was they played some bad teams. And I saw the stat the other day that Kirk Cousins only threw 94 passes in the fourth quarter the whole season because a lot of the games they were winning um speaking of Zimmer and his extension Justin I wonder what you thought when Andy Reid

won the Super Bowl like uh you've liked the Chiefs forever right so I mean seeing Andy Reid go through what he went through there losing playoff games year in and year out and just that organization I think that it's for the Vikings it's an organization they're looking in the mirror with a team that had not been over the hump, but had been so close for so many times. I guess I just wonder what that was like. Surreal. It's something as is a lifelong Chiefs fan that is like, you look at it and I'm like celebrating with my dad and we're hugging and

we're going crazy you know that Damian Williams touchdown run that sealed the deal really we knew at that point everybody's going nuts and you think then you start thinking back about all of the terrible times that you had to go through to get to this moment you know I remember all the way back to when Elvis Gerbach was the quarterback for the Chiefs who got hurt. Rich Gannon went in for them and played amazing down the stretch. And then he got benched in the playoffs and they lost in the first round as a team that was favored to probably go to the Super Bowl that year. And, you know, the no punt game against the Colts.

And then the annual luck comeback in the playoffs with the Colts. And then the Marcus Mariota touchdown pass to himself. And then they play the Steelers and they lose to a team that doesn't even score a touchdown. And then they have Dee Ford line up off sides. I mean, they have had – Does this sound familiar, Vikings fans? I mean, it really is looking in the mirror.

My gosh, the Mariota pass to himself. I mean, that even happened in a Vikings game with Brad Johnson. He threw himself a touchdown. How crazy is that? Yeah, it is, and it is. And the Vikings, like you said, they are a team that has been on the cusp, and I think that they're a team that is a team that I have as one of the better teams in the NFC and have the chance to go to the Super Bowl.

And I like what Zimmer does, and I think if they do keep moving the offense forward and if Kirk Cousins can play at a high level, they're a team that can win if you have you know a good blend of that and Zimmer's defense can be a top five defense they're a team that could find themselves in the NFC championship game and eventually the Super Bowl there's no question in my mind about that all right to wrap up I'm going to give you my favorite five Chiefs players of all time, or at least from me watching football. So sorry, Len Dawson and Jan Stenerud fans, but I'm not that old. I am going to begin with the most

underrated running back in the history of the National Football League, a guy who should be in the Hall of Fame, Jamal Charles. 5.5 yards per attempt is literally the greatest yards per attempt in history. And this guy gets no love in comparison to some of the other great all-time running backs. He is somebody that when people always ask, like, what is one chief that they had back in the day that you could bring back and be on this team right now? It's Jamal Charles, because can you imagine what he would do in this offense? He would run for a billion yards. It would be unbelievable. It would be, yeah, it would be nuts, and part of great teams with Tony Gonzalez and with Trent Green, and they pass the ball well,

but a huge part of their passing offense, and just not, not flashy enough, I think, probably, but just got the job done. I will go another running back for number four on my list, and that is Christian Okoye. I mean, the Nigerian nightmare, nobody better to play with on TechMobile. And I know that, like, of our age, he's just a little slightly bit behind our time of being able to really remember watching, like, game after game of him. But I had his football card, and he's just – his football life documentary is amazing if you've

never seen it. Christian Nicoye, man, one of the coolest players ever. Didn't even play until like what, his fourth year in college or something. Yeah, he's one of those guys that when you think about like those punishing running backs that like are the glory days of the old NFL, like he is like the poster boy from it. Just a massive, huge athlete running through dudes, dragging guys, Jersey getting pulled off and still dragging them behind. Like he was awesome. Number two on my list. Did I get to number two or no, number three, I'm sorry, is a Will Shields. Another guy, like, I'm not going off the board too far here.

Will Shields, one of the great linemen of all time. And he used to be in a commercial because you never really know who these offensive linemen are before pro football focus or whatever the only way you knew who was good was matted so i used to trade for will shields because he'd be a 99 and then he was in a commercial that was like will shields drinks gatorade or something like one of the coolest guards that has ever existed he is one of the coolest guards and he is one of the best guards of all time that's why he's in the hall of fame what guy that i think is perpetually underrated because he honestly could be the best right guard arguably ever to play he was so good in every facet he also gave an incredible hall of fame speech gave a shout

out to all the teachers out there so that that's always good to hear, behind education, got to like that. Yeah, definitely, for sure. That is my mom's business and yours as well. And number two we don't have to talk about because it's Patrick Mahomes. Just love Patrick Mahomes. Especially because I was right about him in the draft. So if you're right about a guy, you're going to love him forever. And number one is, you know this wasn't this wasn't super

hard Derek Thomas number one of all time and even if he hadn't tragically passed away it what eight sacks in a single game like one of the basically the the second version of Lawrence Taylor one of the most purely dominant players who has ever played the game I am not too much of a man to admit that I did cry the day that he passed away, and I'm not even joking about that. He was my all-time favorite player. I have probably 150 of his trading cards. He was everything. He's the reason that I stayed with the Chiefs for so long, because I just loved watching him play. It was like, he's one of those players when you think of like, oh man, this team needs a player right now. Who's going to do it? It was always Derek Thomas coming around that corner, getting the sack with a strip fumble. And I really think that if his career

wouldn't have been short, he would have been down as one of the, probably maybe if not broken the sack records or one of the all-time great pass rushers. And he still is, but he just doesn't get talked about enough because I think his career was too short. Yeah, that's right. And he was a guy that there are very few of these who dominate the whole game, like start to finish, that whether it was actually him getting sacks or the other team being so terrified of him getting sacks that he was double teamed, or he could make plays in coverage, he could make plays against the run. There's a lot of edge rushers that you watch where it's like five plays a game,

they really matter. Not the case with Derek Thomas. So, anyway, Justin, this has been super fun. People can find your stuff at Arrowhead Live. And also you have a Twitter name that seems like a guy who didn't think he would be doing media made it. Yeah, this is the Twitter name that I think I made when Twitter first came out. And I got to the point where I had so, so many, like, I was following so many things. I was like, I can't,

I can't switch it at this point. But it is, it's JDiz1617, J-D-I-Z-1-6-1-7. You won't forget it now. But yes, I did make that, like, when Twitter, like, originated, whenever that was. Right after your AOL Messenger name, pretty much. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Very good. Well, just go to Arrowhead Live. Don't try to remember that. But you do a very great podcast.

I was on it, so I definitely think it got better that day. And let's catch up again throughout the season. Talk a little Chiefs and Vikings. Absolutely, man. It was a pleasure being on. I really appreciate it. And, yeah, looking forward to the season. And go Yellow Jackets and Golden Eagles.