Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is Brian Flores calling the shots on the defensive rebuild?

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Matthew Coller and Sports Illustrated's Will Ragatz break down what Brian Flores' hire means for Kevin O'Connell, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and the defensive rebuild as well as Eric Kendricks and other players. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated as we get together for our usual Thursday session. And this comes on the heels of Will getting owned by Brian Flores. Will, I was just on a radio hit in one of the Dakotas, and the hosts played the clip of you asking Brian Flores about Cover Zero. And I also included on yesterday's podcast as well that he was not going to tell you about Cover Zero. But also, I think that after, it was almost like he felt bad

that in front of many people, he was just like, no, Will, I will not tell you about my blitzes. He actually gave a relatively insightful answer. So even though you had to take that punch from Brian Flores, you kind of dusted yourself off, got back up and got us a little bit of insight into his thinking. Yeah, I didn't I didn't take it so much as like a punch. I know you're not saying that either. It was a funny reaction where he's like, all coaches do this where like you get the boilerplate questions and then someone asks you like a relatively innocent question about the actual sport. And they're like, oh, you want all the secrets, huh?

Like Kevin O'Connell has done that, not to me, but to other people. So I wasn't necessarily surprised by that. But yeah, afterwards, he didn't really answer my question, which was like, what's the risk-reward of Blitz Zero? And what are the keys to doing it well? And I guess I maybe shouldn't have expected him to answer that. But he talked about, yeah, that's something he likes to do. He said, I like to give that presentation of Blitz zero because then there are things I can do off of it. Is it zero? Is it not zero? It confuses the offense.

They have to adjust. And those are things you kind of can tell if you watch his 2020, 2021 Dolphins teams play at all. But it was cool to hear that from him. And we'll see. I mean, I'm just very excited to see what that looks like in terms of the Minnesota Vikings this season. Yes. And I am 100 percent just giving you a hard time about that, because there are dozens of instances where we have asked questions and Mike Zimmer would do it, too.

It's like, I'm not telling you guys what we're doing. Like, OK, sorry, man. And Mike Zimmer would do it without then laughing afterwards, like Flores did. But here's what I did think was at least notable, is after he said, I'm not telling you the game plan, Will, Kevin O'Connell said something like sort of in the flow of the joking around, like, yeah, well, I had a hard time getting that out of him when I was interviewing him as well, which was just sort of a little bit of insight into their conversations about how they want the defense to be. And if there was any big takeaway for me, I don't think it was about the zero blitzes of which, like you said,

I mean, he said that there are different ways you can show those looks and then drop out. But also he mentioned always being aware of what the trends are. So, you know, maybe we don't see as many blitzes because teams have figured out some stuff against them. And this was like Mike Zimmer in the AA gap where when I first moved to Minnesota in 2016, it was a double a gap blitz festival and four or five years later there were all sorts of different blitzes that he was dialing up but it wasn't those anymore because teams had adapted some uh you know whatever it is blocking schemes or options for the quarterback after that so that is something that you want to hear from Brian Flores about the adaptability and always paying close attention

and maybe not just running the same defense every single play and having the other team destroy it. But the big takeaway for me was the Flores O'Connell connection is just going to be huge. I don't know that there was an O'Connell Donatello connection, but it seems like with these two guys, their age, where they came from with Belichick like their vision for football I think all these things matter when you have to rebuild the defense oh yeah I was I was just thinking that before you even said it that that was like if I was if I'm a Vikings fan that's what I'm excited about from watching this press conference is just how in sync these two guys seem to be. And O'Connell tried in his first year.

I understood the process of, all right, let me go get this veteran coach who's done it for a long time. He can help kind of my transition and be this older voice that has experienced all this football and has been a successful defensive coordinator in the past. It just didn't work because Ed, like you hinted to there, didn't really adjust and the scheme didn't work. And the personnel definitely played a role in it as well. But I think with Flores coming in, I mean, yeah, you just mentioned it. They both,

they knew each other back in New England. They both like have been around Bill Belichick, Flores for much longer than O'Connell and Flores actually coaching under Belichick and even eventually being the pseudo defensive coordinator for that, that team. I just think there, there, there's some cliches that they were using a lot, like our football foundation, our philosophy, all these things are aligned, but there's some truth and value to that, that these guys, I think are going to be really, really helpful to each other,

just in meetings, bouncing stuff off each other, staying ahead of the trends on both sides of the ball. Like, yeah, Flores isn't going to come in and just do everything he did in Miami because that might not be staying ahead of the curve enough. And he's going to have different personnel here. O'Connell's going to have to change some things up from what the Vikings put on tape last year. And Flores is a great guy to kind of bounce those ideas off as well. I mean, those two, I think Wes Phillips will be a crucial part of it. The rest of

the staff, like to me, I, as soon as they made the hire, I thought it was a fantastic hire and the press conference yesterday didn't did nothing to change my mind. And it probably made me even more convinced that, that it's a great hire. Yeah yeah with O'Connell and Ed Donatell it almost reminded me of Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner and how you know Mike Zimmer initially I think wanted to just run the defense and be the head coach and let Norv Turner just do whatever he wanted to do on the offensive side but that never works because the head coach is always going to have opinions it's his win- win loss record that it goes down for. And if he's seeing something repeatedly that he doesn't like, he's the guy

that's responsible for making that change. And so it almost feels like there was a, I do the offense, you do the defense, Ed, you run that Fangio system and everything else from last year. And now it's going to be much more in lockstep with these two guys where that would be maybe similar to Mike Zimmer and Pat Shermer, who really saw football a lot of the same ways. Pat Shermer loved to run the bootlegs, the West Coast offense, quicker passes for Case Keenum and the occasional deep shot downfield. That was what Mike Zimmer's vision of difficult offenses to play against was.

And I think maybe after last year, Kevin O'Connell probably had thought that the Fangio thing was going to work, but just because you worked for Fangio doesn't mean you're him. And I think that Flores is probably a little more malleable as well. It just seemed like Donatello was really locked into like the system is the system and it does what it does. And that's it. And we heard the total opposite from Brian Flores, which was like how aggressive we're going to be really depends on who we have as the players.

But that's what it all comes back to for me as far as this being a good hire, which is Brian Flores is a player evaluator from his core of being in the NFL. And that's going to make the biggest difference of whether this thing goes somewhere or not, because I totally believe if they had sauce Gardner and Micah Parsons last year, that they're probably a good defense, but they didn't. So I think that finding those guys is really like same thing with Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn was a great defensive mind in Dallas, right? But a few years before that in Atlanta, his defenses were horrendous because the players are the ones out

there who are going to have to do it. So finding the players that fit their vision, that has always been at the top of my list for why it was a good hire for the Vikings. Yeah, no, I mean, I totally agree. Flores was a scout before he ever got into coaching. He spent like four years in the Patriots scouting department. The last thing I'll say on the whole just kind of relationship between O'Connell and his defensive coordinator, it seemed like last year, like you're right, that he kind of handed the defense off to Donatel and then grew frustrated with it but it took him a while I think during the season to actually like really say all right no like here's what we're doing like you need to make these changes because I'm watching this as an offensive coach and seeing how easy it would be if this was me playing against you and I need you to make these changes and it seemed like that took until like the second half of the year when they started to actually blitz a little bit more and change up various looks. And it worked a little bit, but it was just a little bit too late.

And the players, obviously, you can't just magically insert better players in week 13. And so we saw what happened in the in the playoff game against the Giants. I think Flores having kind of the Belichick background, then having done his own thing in Miami and figured out like while going through being a head coach, which I think is important, but figuring out what he wanted his defense to look like. And then I think even last year is beneficial having a year working closely with Mike Tomlin, who's one of the best defensive coaches of this century. Like I think he's got all the variety of background the scouting stuff helps just that it seems to me like it's going to be a really good pairing but here's the first task they got to get

the players in there who can maximize the Flores scheme and that's what he said is like we're going to do what our players do best we're going to have we're going to be aggressive but there's going to be a method to it it's going to be depending on down and distance field position and things like that. They got to get the players in here who are versatile. One thing he talked about is he likes guys who can play multiple spots and have that. I don't know.

There's probably some guys on the Vikings who can do that, but you'd like to bring some more in who have some versatility and just get the players in so that you don't have to have any any like year one slow build you you want to just be able to have Flores's defense cooking right away this season and trying to think of any players who play multiple positions other than like Zedarius Smith who moves around uh probably not uh so let's play a little game with brian camp behind him used to be a corner i guess yeah you do have that uh josh metellus was the emergency nickel corner does that count um no it does not so let's uh let's play a little game though with brian flores though

now that he is officially the defensive coordinator uh we're gonna call it what's it mean to that guy um do you want to try to sing a jingle for what's it mean to that guy? I think that's, it would be a bad idea. That would be like Brian Flores trying to show us his, his gritty. You're not a, you're not a musical guy, right? Like that's not your thing. No, I mean, I like music. I just, I consume it. I don't produce it. Although I used to play violin in like middle school i was decent oh really you're decent okay that's a that's a hard instrument so maybe you

could maybe you could write a jingle for this but i'll i'll give it a try what's it mean to that guy how about that that works that was good that's like an old like 1970s like commercial jingle i like it i'm a professional uh so but what's it mean to that guy we kind of already talked about like kevin o'connell and what this relationship means to that guy but how about quesia da flamenca who was not at the press conference but is a major part of this now it's almost like a what did they used to call it like a triangle of power or something that they used to have uh the triangle of authority yes yeah yeah yeah it's almost like that it's almost a little bit of a triangle of authority when you bring in someone who has the head coaching experience that

brian flores does and as far as reshaping this defense and i think that flores's impact can go beyond that because of his head coaching experience but uh does this mean that quesia da flamenza's plan is going to have to be to just do what brian flores wants on the defense is it do what's right for the salary cap like how does bringing in somebody who i think wants to turn around the defense pretty fast and brianores impact Kweisi Adafomensa what does it mean to that guy uh I love it um I think there's yeah there's gonna be a hierarchy and it's always been kind of in terms of roster decisions Kweisi is at the top Kevin's not that far behind and there's other people in the front office, obviously, but I think Brian Flores slots in not that far behind Kevin O'Connell, especially, I mean, specifically with when it comes to, knows what he needs and wants to make this thing work. But at the same time, if you're

Kweisi, you're not just like, all right, give me a shopping list. I'll go get them. Like you have your own concerns. Brian Flores is not going to be diving deep into the weeds of the salary cap because that's not his job. So Kweisi and Rob Brzezinski and everybody else on that end have to have that be a key consideration and I mean that's that's their job is to kind of have one foot in putting the best defense that they possibly can on the field in 2023 and also have one foot in not screwing yourself for the future in 2024 and beyond like yeah it would be great to maybe keep some of these veterans and and push money into the future but you can't to maybe keep some of these veterans and and push money into the future but you can't do that with some of these guys so it's going to be kind of a balance

where there's going to be a ton of collaboration that's the huge word that we heard all last year with with Kwesi and Kevin I think Flores fits right into that with the collaboration but it's a give and take like he's he's going to have a lot of input but he's not gonna have the final say on things so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out for sure that is one thing i do wonder about when there is a disagreement because uh of course last year it was a lot of well you know what all of us are just gonna get around that campfire and we're gonna have s'mores and we're just gonna all agree on everything in football and uh i don't know that it worked out that way considering they had to fire their defensive coordinator but uh with florist though i mean he i think that he's got to wield

a lot of power here to get him here that when this is one of the things like i i credit brian florist this guy has clearly been a head coach. He knows how to answer the questions in a way that sort of gives you a little bit, but isn't really the whole thing. I mean, he's here because they probably gave him a lot of money and a decent amount of power, right? If you're going to pull out of the Arizona situation, pull out of even interviewing for Denver to come here, it's likely because they ponied up I

don't know that 100 sure just kind of connecting some little dots here why would you just decide this is your place but also I wonder about the power element as well if it's we're going to let you do this the way you think is right and Kweisi Adafomense is going to find you the players this is one thing that we don't know and we're going to have to try to figure out as we go through the years but because we don't have a big enough sample to just like connect dots and nobody's telling us this and I remember it was a question in the press conferences early on like so who actually makes the calls here is it going to be Brian Flores saying get me this this this and this this, and this. And Kweisi Adafo-Mensa says, okay, get everybody together. We'll find you this, this, this.

Or is it Kweisi Adafo-Mensa saying, this is what you're going to get. Now you figure out how to coach them. And that's two very different philosophies. And both of those exist in the NFL. Yeah, I do think it's doable to have a balance between the two where like you they can go hand in hand where brian flores can say hey like i like that cornerback i i used to coach him in in pittsburgh or in new england or wherever like he's pretty good and then quacey can say all right it's doable or it's not doable and like they're not gonna necessarily go crazy and outbid some other

team just because Brian Flores wants that guy but maybe they'll make a competitive offer and try to get him in and then if not they'll go all right who do you see as like a slightly worse or or an adequate replacement for that guy and who's a little cheaper we'll go get him like I think there can be a good balance there Brian Flores and Kweisi Adafamense don't have any sort of prior relationship that I know of but they strike me as two guys who will be able to figure out that balance and get along and yeah I don't know who I don't know who ends up making the final decision if there's a kind of heated disagreement and we don't know how much that happened last year I think it was asked and Kweisi was like hey that's a good thing to have we'll just we'll get all these different information sources and gather them and we'll come to the best possible collective decision and yeah it sounds

good it's not always that easy i'm sure especially like draft night and and free agency decisions and and all these different things so uh it definitely adds a new piece that i imagine wasn't there i don't think ed donatel was coming in last year and being like all right i want i want this guy like i don't i don't think there was much of that i think brian flores is going to have more leeway to do that another thing i'll say for for quacey is i don't know if hiring a defensive coordinator can or should like be a total mindset shift to your overall approach but it seems to me if there was any chance that the Vikings were considering doing the rebuilding thing which we've had to discuss as a potential option for a lot of off seasons now if they were

considering that don't you think they'd hire like some young up and coming defensive coordinator that could be there for a while there's a very real chance that brian flores is here for one year and then he's a head coach somewhere next year because he is very qualified to do that he's interviewed for head coach jobs the last two off seasons so this strikes me as hey we're we're going for it again we loved our offense last year it was our defense that let us down let's get our defense up to league average or better with this awesome defensive coordinator let's get him some some win now pieces and and let's go do this thing let's go win the north again aaron rogers who knows where he's going to be the detroit lions are still the detroit lions

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I definitely wondered about that myself. So, but let me give you a situation where this could be a conflict. Daniil Hunter, like let, let's say just for example, and I don't know any, this is not like reporting or anything it's just uh for example they go to daniel hunter and they're like we want to sign you to an extension for 17 million dollars a year for the next five years and daniel hunter says you know what i think i can probably get about 25 if i get 10 more sacks next year so i'm gonna say no and then they say all right well now i guess we have the option to trade you because that's what you do when a player's not going to sign an extension and they're in the

final year of their contract and daniel hunter might be able to get you a late first round pick or a second round draft pick i'm considering the season that he just had if you're brian flores you do not want to be sans daniel hunter also you want to get a head coaching job next year, which it's going to help you to have Daniil Hunter to get that head coaching job. But if you're Kweisi Adafo-Mensa, it's GMing 101. If a guy's not going to sign an extension, you need to get draft capital back because if you lose him and then you get a compensatory pick that's going to be a third or a fourth round or something like that's not anywhere close to what you would have gotten for just trading him away plus you

could really use that draft capital now who wins out in that situation is what i want to know and i actually think that that situation if they don't extend him will kind of tell us like who wins out because it's so obvious what both parties would want in that spot that is a a great example that you just cooked up i like it because it's a very real thing that we could see soon that would that would be evidence i think it has to be the gm who wins out in that in that situation it can't like just because brian flores has this real possibility of being a rental and being here for one year. And yes, it would help his case as his defensive numbers if he has Daniel Hunter. But you can't, I mean, the Vikings are far enough clearly from Super Bowl contention that they can't just be thinking about this year.

It has to be the, I don't know if the term competitive rebuild is the best one but it has to be the the thinking about today and thinking about tomorrow living in in what is it both both time horizons or something quacey says like they have to be considering that so in that situation yeah you'd love to have daniel hunter here and you hope if you're both parties you hope it doesn't come to that and you hope dan Hunter is a, still a great football player who unlike some of these other defensive players is not washed at all. He's still very good when he's healthy. You hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, Kweisi has to win out and he has to say, call teams.

And if he can get a first round pick for Daniel Hunter, if, if, if the alternative is letting him walk next year, then, and you got to do it I think and and you know what you figure it out from there and you you go all right we have Zedarius Smith we'll we'll try to figure some stuff out maybe maybe we get some young guys to step up maybe we bring in a free agent who can be 65 percent of Daniel Hunter maybe we draft a guy like you just have to adjust but that has to but that has to be Kweisi winning out in that kind of situation.

I would think so too, but I am interested to find out because I think that that will be one that really tells us. And even if they sign him to a five-year extension where he's getting $20 million a year, to me that is completely anti-rebuild and until they do anything that says rebuild in my mind this team is just trying to win they're just trying to compete you traded a second round pick for t.j hockinson that's not very competitive rebuildy and we supported that at the time and still think it's a great trade that they made

but i'm just saying that we've seen really no evidence and quesia da fomenta did not want to go away from the competitive rebuild idea when we kind of circled back to it at the end of the year it's like hey you're still competitive rebuilding my guy and it was like no we are but i haven't seen any evidence of it and uh how flores fits into all that will be interesting to see the moves in relation to his hire. Because I would guess if I had to guess right now with him here, that the answer is going to be draft a defensive player, sign defensive players, and try to move on from the guys that don't work for his defense and add guys that do, which leads me to the next.

What does it mean for that guy? Was that the game? What does it mean? I've already forgotten. Yeah, no, that was to the next. What does it mean for that guy? Was that the game? What does it mean? I've already forgotten. Okay. What does it mean? But how about Eric Hendricks? I think he's at really the center of this conversation as well, considering one year left on his contract, fairly expensive for a linebacker of his age. Yeah, I think the whole linebacker kind of puzzle has to be considered when you're talking about Eric Kendricks, because my thought has been this whole time that they bring back one of the two Kendricks and Hicks. I think Brian Asamoah is absolutely a starter. Like you don't you don't hand anybody jobs in the NFL. They have to they have to earn it

to some extent but with just the flashes we saw from brian asamoah the draft capital i mean he was a top 70 draft pick just the the raw like athleticism if he can get on the right page he's going to be such a perfect i think fit for this brian flores defense because he can come up to the line and act like he's blitzing and then he can drop back into coverage or he can drop blitz at the last second and he can do all these he can cover tight ends and running backs in man coverage and and do all these things that you need your linebackers do he has that speed element that both Eric Kendricks and Jordan Hicks were kind of lacking last year so I mean it's possible that both of those guys

could be gone and they have two brand-new linebackers. The Kendricks thing, he's a little more expensive. Hicks isn't quite on the same level of contract, but there's a reason for that because Kendricks has shown a higher ceiling in the past than Hicks. He was an all-pro not that long ago. And you wonder, like, did he fall off because he totally lost a step last year or was he just really unsure of his decisions in Ed Donatell's defense I don't know the answer I think

best bet is it was a combination of the two but to me I think there's a chance that that this Brian Flores hire isn't great news for Eric Kendricks. I don't know because he has had success in the past with like the Zimmer AA gap stuff, but that was also a younger version of Eric Kendricks. Does this current, what is he, 30, 31? Does this version of Eric Kendricks fit what Brian Flores wants to do? That's a perfect example of what probably they're doing right now. Brian Flores watching tape on this defense and thinking is is that guy going to fit into how I envision this playing out

for my defense that that those questions are going to be had with every player on the roster but they're going to be especially important with the guys who have the cap hits and and the the decisions on Kwesi's side because maybe Kwesi's going to want to hear from Fl you what do you think that's not going to be what what are we doing with this guy it's going to be what do you think and then that will just be one of the information sources that quasi uses to make his bayesian decision like i don't i don't know if i use that word right i just wanted to throw it in there because he uses it sometimes but you get what i'm saying like there's gonna be that back and forth i don't know. I'm not sure what it means for Eric Hendricks, but I would lean towards it's not good.

Yeah. Eric Hendricks is a fascinating one here because he is also under that category. Put it under the Chad Greenway, Kyle Rudolph, like players who are phenomenal in the community. And that may not matter to you, but I know who it does matter to. And that would be the Wilfs that players who have been a big part of the community matter to them and players that they really love as people and human beings

really matter to them. And that's nice. Like, I mean, I don't want to like criticize someone for saying yes, Eric Hendricks was the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award nominee for last year and has been incredible to the Twin Cities for a guy who's from Fresno, California or whatever and went to UCLA. And yet he's adopted this community and made it his. So that does matter to the equation here that they might say we want him to still be here and even give him an extension there's also an interesting stat that I mean sort of stuck out to me a little bit when we talk about Kendrick slowing down which is his run defense grade was actually very good this year and that doesn't really matter in the big picture of stopping other teams. Cause usually that's all about the past game. But I do wonder if when Brian Flores is watching the tape back, if he sees

some burst from Kendrick stopping the run from side to side, where we kind of, when there's a bad run play for the other team, we just kind of like eat another donut in the press box and wait for them to pass. Right. Like, I don't know know i'm not saying i never watched them but it's just like i'm not sure what happened there usually you know fat guys it's hard to tell from our our vantage point and let's tell you watch the actual like end zone angle yeah like what happened right i mean if you would ask me did eric hendricks have an okay year against the runner a great year i would have said like i don't know like it's hard to tell but uh the you know the PFF when they watch it back and grade it they graded it extremely well but that's what Brian Flores might look closely at in terms of

does he still have some burst in his game and I think that the way that he played was just so far off and separated from how he's ever had to play before that it wouldn't have really even told us that like people have said to me like oh Kendrick's looks slow now but I don't even know what plays he was supposed to be looking fast in coverage because he was just dropping back into these deep zones I could see a world where a former linebackers coach says that's my guy like that's a guy that I absolutely want to keep no matter what that's that that is a good point I that is definitely a possibility because I mean if you look back a couple years at the Kendricks tape and if you're if you're saying I'm getting 2019 2020 Eric Kendricks there's no defensive coordinator and especially not a former

linebackers coach who would be like no thank you they would be all over that because when he i mean just a few years ago he was one of the not one of if not the best past coverage linebackers in the nfl like he's carrying davante adams 30 yards down the seam and looking like every bit or almost as much as as like fred warner has looked this past year which is just kind of the perfect modern prototype linebacker so if you make the decision that or come to the conclusion that he just didn't fit very well in the donatelle defense and maybe the donatelle defense wasn't doing anybody any any real favors except for like patrick peterson uh then then then maybe you you say let's bring him back and let's back and let's run with him in this defense and have him use his experience and his ability to be sort of almost a Harrison Smith type player

where he can disguise things and just do a variety of things at a high level, including play downhill and defend the run. Yeah, and I think another thing, if you move on from Jordan Hicks and you go Kendricks and Asamoah, I think Asamoah could learn a lot from Eric Kendricks as like, I'm trying to be you. I'm trying to be the 2019 version of you. And let me pick your brain and learn all these different things,

which I'm sure was already going on last year in his rookie season. But yeah, Kendricks is a fascinating one. Like I I can I'm sure we'll get to a few more I can like you say certain guys that I'm like this is good or this is not so good with Kendricks it's I can kind of talk myself into it either way yeah I think and there's a few that we could probably just agree on like it's good for Harrison Smith assuming that he's gonna be here there's no question about that uh would say it's good for Lewis Seen this is a guy who is a safeties coach and who's a downhill player that you know I will line up in the box for a defensive coordinator that lines up people in the box all the time good for both of those guys how about this one what does it mean for that guy? Any corner, any corner.

Also, do we agree Patrick Peterson just probably can't fit in this system? Yeah, that. So when I say there's a few that jump out at me, you just hit on two of them. Harrison Smith and Lewis scene, it strikes me as good. Harrison Smith especially is like a pretty clear cut one where he was just not used correctly. He was not used to the best of his value last year when you're just having him be a moon ball, 40 yard deep, too high, deep safety. Like that's just not utilizing him to the best of his abilities. He still picked off like five passes like he did it well. But you want him to be this super versatile guy who comes up into the box and and disguises things and is moving all over the place and communicating thing like yes so that is good

for Harrison Smith we agree on that bad for Patrick Peterson I think we we we'd also agree on that because like I just kind of mentioned the Donatello scheme he he should he should go somewhere where he can play in a Fangio scheme again because that just made him look like one of the best cornerbacks in the league like and not to say that that like elevated his skills in some gimmicky way like he legitimately was a great cornerback he's perfectly suited for that system where he is watching the ball the whole time he's not turning and running in man coverage and having to then find the ball. Like he's able to use his hall of fame, all world level instincts and intelligence to track the ball and go make plays. And so I just, if you, if you're given the Brian Flores, the 2016 version of Patrick Peterson,

then absolutely he could press and run with the best of them. But the current version of Patrick Peterson, I think he will understand and Brian Flores will understand that the fit just probably isn't there does that mean it's impossible that he's back no but I just it strikes me as unlikely I think you look at the other cornerbacks this is great news if you're Andrew Booth and a Caleb Evans I think you you have a guy who's used to coach DBs I mean he was a safeties coach but he is going an experienced defensive coordinator seen a lot of things coached a lot of great cornerbacks in New England in Miami with like I mean, he was a safeties coach, but he is going to experience defensive corner. He's seen a lot of things, coached a lot of great cornerbacks in New England, in Miami with like Xavier Howard and Byron Jones.

Like if those two guys can stay healthy, this is great news for them. But you can't count on that if you're the Vikings. So you're going to have to go bring some guys in who are going to be your probable starters or who are going to at least compete with those young guys for the starting jobs i don't i don't know what it means for like a duke shelly i think he could probably fit in this system but do you do you buy into that whole like eight game sample size where he looked really good and became this cult hero among vikings fans is that is that enough for you to be like all right this is a starting cornerback for us? I just think there's so many cornerbacks out there that that is going to be a position that they aggressively pursue. And I think Flores and Kweisi and Kevin are all going to be in agreement on that, that let's go get a corner or two in for agency. And let's maybe even still draft one in the first round after that, because you can never have too many corners. And I have no idea if Booth and Evans are going to be healthy.

I was just going to say a great defensive mind once said you can never have too many corners. And that is completely true. And the Vikings have drafted like it in recent years. But it's interesting that you didn't mention one guy in particular that I think this would work for. But the organization might just be kind of done with, which is Cam Dantzler. And he battled injuries last year. Early on, he kind of looked good and we all did the like, Oh, okay. And then no, no, no, no, no. It just went completely sideways. And I remember this is just a lesson for people too, that when you look up some numbers and things like that you got to know how much it

really is telling you and how much it isn't so sometimes you'll see people put out there like oh man last year cam dantzler when he was targeted he only allowed whatever corners are very small sample in a single year it's just really hard to be reliable also just a just a nitpick on those numbers i mean dancer was responsible for a touchdown against detroit that lost them a game that got blamed on xavier woods by pff and i just like i don't think so but anyway that the point is just that those corner numbers are tricky they are not always predictive so you could say, well, last year, this was an amazing stat that Duke Shelley had this small sample size, whatever, but that

doesn't mean he's just going to keep doing that. I don't think it's like receiver where if you get a 90 grade as a receiver for a season, that means you're probably going to keep doing that year after year. So just, just like an FYI for if you're looking up those stats in the future, don't always put too much into it. But I do think that Cam Dantzler is a man-to-man corner and a man-to-man corner only, always and forever. He is not a good fit for having to make a bunch of different checks or reads or route combinations or anything like that. I think he's a dude you just line up and go. So there could be this kind of like by committee or just bring Duke Shelly back. Maybe he's a nickel guy or something and sign like three and draft one and just have this huge Mongo competition for who fits best in Brian Flores' defense.

Sounds entertaining to me. will we'll cover all of it in training camp and that'd be that'd be fun yeah i think i think it's a good way to go like you don't necessarily just come in with our here's gonna be our three starters gonna be our backups like you get a bunch of dudes obviously if they go out and sign like a marquee free agent like a jamelle dean or like even like Cameron Sutton, who Flores coached with the Steelers last year, or like Jonathan Jones, who he coached with the Patriots. Like if they go out and sign somebody like that,

they're probably starting. If you give them seven, eight million, they're probably starting. But bring in some other guys too. Bring in a draft pick and just have all these guys competing. And usually, I i mean football coaches always say and in everything not just football like the cream will rise to the top and then the competition will ideally make everybody else make everybody better so i think that's a good

idea dancer i you're right i i kind of even forgot about him a little bit like obviously i know he exists but second half of the season he wasn't starting he's he's an intriguing guy because over the last three years there's been times where I'm like yeah this dude's a stud like he's he's gonna be a starting cornerback in the NFL for 10 years and then there's times where I'm like he might be out of football in three years because he's just making all these bizarre mistakes and it's it it's it's weird it fluctuates but I think he's kind of a forgotten man who is somebody to keep an eye on as he goes into the last year of his rookie contract there's there's still upside there and this it's possible that this defense will be

the fit for him and maybe Brian Flores will be the coach for him that kind of gets it out of him and gets a consistent season out of him. And hey, everybody, everybody performs, seems to perform better in contract years sometimes. So, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe it'll be Cameron Dantzler bounce back season in 2023. I'd be, I'd be here for it. It could be someone, probably both of us is writing that potentially in training camp. Will this be the season for Dantzler? He says yes.

But, you know, another. But he's not going to be handed any sort of. Right. He's going to have to ball out to earn his way onto the field because Flores doesn't really know him. Kweisi Adolfo-Mensah didn't draft him. Like, he's going to have to beat out some guys to make that happen. Right.

And two coaching staffs got frustrated with him which is another one of those hey just fyi to keep in the back of your mind when we blame the previous coach for why somebody didn't work out unless it's really blatant like with harrison smith where we know he's great and wasn't used correctly um just beware just beware of those storylines because a lot of times blaming the last guy the last coach isn't really what was going on it's usually just the player uh okay last one what does it mean for that guy what does brian floris being here mean for brian floris getting getting a little a little meta there yeah yeah i like. Yeah, I like it. Next slide. I think there's a good chance it's the right spot for him.

I mean, I think you trust your gut. He said it was a gut feeling to come here and essentially to turn down the Arizona job. Not that he was offered it, but to drop out of being a finalist and not take a second interview there. Who knows? offered it but to to drop out of being a finalist and not take a second interview there where who knows I mean Jonathan Gannon was just in the Super Bowl but I'd probably take Brian Flores over Jonathan Gannon as my head coach knowing the little that I know as an outsider like I think there's a chance he could have ended up with that job but that would have meant like going to an organization that's kind of in a lot of turmoil and has real questions about if Kyler Murray's the guy and this is lacking talent elsewhere. So I think there's a good chance that he made a good decision by coming to work with Kevin O'Connell.

And this I mean, he's never technically been a defensive coordinator before he went from like he was a pseudo defensive coordinator with the Patriots but then he went straight into being a head coach and then was kind of a defensive assistant linebackers coach last year he gets to run his own defense again he gets to have the opportunity to prove it and it'll be really impressive if he does this right away in 2023 which he might be able to if he can prove that I am so good at coaching defense that I helped, I mean, I helped make the Patriots into what they were. That's always going to be kind of conflated with, was it Flores? Was it Belichick?

But I mean, he called plays in that Superbowl where they, where they held the Rams to three points. He did it in Miami. If he comes here and does it again, then it's like, all right, it's more than just players. This guy can really coach defense and knows how to stay ahead of the trends and, and, and just, I mean, fool and confuse and stymie offenses with various different schemes and tricks and disguises and all these different things. And if he does that and he, and he turns around this Vikings defense, which by the way, like,

regardless of what the personnel changes are going to be, they're not going to be so massive that that's going to be what's credited if this Vikings defense turns around. He's coming in with a low bar to work with in terms of points allowed, yards allowed, all these things, DVOA. If he turns that around and gets them to at least around the middle of the pack or maybe even better, he's going to be a hot head coach candidate next year i think and so i i think that kind of that element makes this a good spot for him and i just think there's you can you can have questions about is there the talent here

for him to even do that but hey maybe that maybe that makes it even more impressive so and maybe if it doesn't work right away then he can say well I don't I didn't really have the talent he stays for one more year and then he has another chance to boost his stock up again so to me it seems like a good fit I it's always going to be interesting when you turn down a potential head coach job but I don't know we'll see I I think I think it was a smart decision by him. I think it's a good decision by him too. And he really should have, at least in the organization's mind, unless it's like a Donatello situation where the guy, and I don't see this happening,

where the guy's like borderline insubordinate. I mean, I think that, and I just mean by like Kevin O'Connell was even in press conferences sort of begging for certain things and they never happened. So like, I don't think that's going to happen here. Judging on a lot of different factors and especially that, you know, I was just seeing a graphic today about Jalen Phillips in Miami and how Jalen Phillips took this huge jump to be an elite pass rusher this year. Usually, and Christian Wilkins was like this too, usually these guys that you draft, they take a year before they can make a huge impact. And I think it should be in Brian Flores' mind, kind of a two-year thing. Like, all right, this year, i want to show that it's a better smarter defense that's aggressive

in the blitzing way and uh can fool quarterbacks and things like that but i just don't know that it's going to be a turnaround to the level that would put you on the map he's his name's always going to come up because he had success as a head coach and when you do that you're going to get interviews just by that so if it's even incrementally better, he'll be in the conversation. But I think in his mind, it should be like you show up to a complete mess and you start to just put the pieces back together. And then a year from now, that's when it looks like, you know, a really good situation again. So that's how I think it should play out. But I don't know what's in his mind about this. Well, and that's what he did in Miami. It's that's a great point. Like he showed up to a team that did not have a lot of talent. And in 2019, his first year, they were really bad.

They were one of the worst defenses in the league. And then I'm sure he was planting the seeds of what it was going to become. And then in 2020, they were awesome. Like they just made this massive jump because maybe they got some new pieces and I would have to look in detail of that. But I imagine it was just guys like Christian Wilkins taking that jump and like everybody on the defense having a full year of learning it. And then here we go.

And in 2020, they led the league in takeaways and they were fifth in scoring defense and they were unbelievable. So yeah, that's a good point. Like if, if this defense becomes like a top 10 unit next year, Flores is a miracle worker that seems unlikely to me. So maybe he would be viewing it as kind of a two year thing or maybe not. We'll see. Last question for you, Will.

So anybody who listens to my other weekly podcast, the Hot Routes podcast, where we just do Hot Routes like every show once a week, would know that one of my questions for this week with Hot Routes was with Aaron Rodgers doing his darkness retreat. Let's say that you had a decision you had to make that was really important in your life.

Like, do I shave my beard or something uh if you were going to make that decision that you needed a couple of days to really reflect what would your ideal retreat be for me i said a video game retreat or a pizza retreat where basically just go eat pizza and wings every single day and and think or just play old video games for four straight days nothing else don't do anything just play old maddens uh i got the dreamcast out right now so like do you even know what a dreamcast is no i mean i've heard that word but i couldn't describe it to you well it is what it is but uh it's from like 2000. The point just being that that would, that would be my personal retreat. What would yours be? But aren't you not, not to pick nits at your retreat, but if you're playing video games,

aren't you like locked in on the video game and thus not really thinking about this decision you have to make? No, I think it really clears the mind. Like, are you really so locked into NFL 2K2 where I've taken the Cleveland Browns and signed a bunch of old players on the game like Troy Aikman and Andre Reid? Are you really so locked into that that you can't?

Like, I think what it is is just this relaxed experience because I wouldn't want to be in the dark terrified it doesn't really make any sense i would prefer to be comfortable and you know maybe you're playing some music and again pizza can be involved here like you're just having this complete like shutting out the outside world and being alone with your thoughts type of thing or if i was rogers i could just put myself on a team on madden and play it out see how it works and then like best team wins but anyway your retreat i think it would be something like not not entirely dissimilar but without maybe the video games i would just go to like some some cabin and maybe try to do some outdoorsy stuff like if it's in the summer maybe

i go kayak around and just immerse myself in nature and listen to the birds and the trees and and try to do a decision that or if i was doing it right now maybe i'd go like on a ski trip by myself and just like ski down the hills and and think about things while i'm skiing and while i'm on the chairlift and i've gone skiing like three times this winter, which is unusual for me. Super fun. Uh, so maybe that's what I would do.

So something where it's just me, my thoughts, maybe some music, maybe it's probably some pizza, probably some pizza, probably some ice cream. and yeah, just,

uh, just think. Let's get your mind right. Uh, like you're, you're going like the henry david thoreau route there yeah i think yeah i think so maybe i'd even make myself read a book which i don't do enough but there's some great the beard isn't going anywhere and i don't i don't know where aaron rogers is going i mean maybe to the jets a football book retreat it's not a bad idea

just study ball? Yeah. Yeah, not even study, but just like read football stories. So one book that I read, I think it was maybe two off seasons ago, because I always try to get one or two that I read in an off season, just always football stuff. But like is Bruce Arian's book about all of the quarterbacks that he coached. I mean, he coached Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, you know,

Carson Palmer, and he wrote like chapters about coaching those guys and what they were like. It was very interesting. So maybe there's some, there's some insight into that one. Cause I thought I learned a ton about quarterbacks just from that. So yeah, I mean, you could have like a book retreat or something, football book retreat. So yeah, I mean, you could have like a book retreat or something, football book retreat. But yeah, I guess that really says something about us that we are not interesting enough at all. We're just like, I don't know. I just do stuff I like.

I'm not going into a, to a darkness retreat. I would go insane. I do not have the attention span or just mental capacity to do that. But good for, good for anyone who does, I guess. I go into a dark Chris retreat for about seven hours every night and then I leave it's called going to sleep. So anyway, best of luck to him and his decision. But I think those are great choices. We'll connect your soul with nature. Anyway. So speaking of connecting, we'll connect your soul with nature anyway. So speaking of connecting,

we'll connect again soon. I don't know the, the off season timing is going to be a little wonky, but she'll be around. And I appreciate your breakdown and we will talk again soon, man. Thanks for this. I will.

I will be in the, in the Bahamas next week doing some, some soul searching. I didn't know you were doing a retreat. No. Well, yeah, I'm going with my family, but

I will be laying on the beach sipping on a margarita and I will be thinking about what does it mean for that guy?