Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is it better for the Vikings if Jameis Winston starts for the Saints?

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

Matthew Coller and Sports Illustrated's Will Ragatz talk about the possibility of Andy Dalton starting over Jameis Winston this Sunday in London. Why the Vikings' defense is a better matchup against Jameis and whether the offense can get Justin Jefferson the football more often this week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collard here along with Sports Illustrated's Will Regetz to discuss Vikings and Saints. And we have a very easy place to start, Will, which is Jameis Winston did not practice for a second straight day. But I'm just going to throw out a hot take for you here. I think it's actually worse for the Vikings if Andy Dalton starts. The last time he played the Vikings, he kind of kept things under control and won the game with a good defense and a good running game for the Dallas Cowboys two years ago. Jameis Winston is broken, and he's all over the place, way up and down, but more down than up, leads the league in interceptions.

I feel like they're they're worse off I think they should beat either one but they're worse off if Andy Dalton plays so my usual thing is that the Viking fan perspective of hey like oh backup quarterbacks are scary we don't want to face backup quarterbacks like I think that's a little overblown in general I understand where it comes from when you lose to chase daniel and matt moore and obviously nick foals in the uh nfc championship game and andy dalton in 2020 cooper rush last year like i get it but at the same time by the way that's a lot i just named a lot i did i just named i just named five games but the thing is they probably lose those games anyway like if Patrick Mahomes

plays in that Kansas City game they lose if they play Dak the last couple years they probably lose like maybe if Mitch Trubisky plays instead of Chase Daniel I don't know but the thing is like I generally think it's overblown you usually would like to face a backup quarterback because there is a reason why they are the backup quarterback with that said in this specific case I can very much get behind the argument that facing Jameis Winston would be better because Jameis Winston just chucks the ball downfield and takes a ton of chances and he leaves the league with five interceptions he threw a pick six he threw 30 interceptions a couple years ago like there's a risk reward with that style where he could come

up with some big plays against the Vikings cornerback group that is really lacking in speed but there would be opportunities for takeaways and for sacks and for forced fumbles and especially with Jameis being banged up with the the back and I think he's dealing with an ankle too yeah I can totally understand the argument of wanting to face him instead of Andy Dalton. And I also think in general, the way that the Vikings play defense pretty much says, hey, can you dink and dunk all day against us? And the idea is that they're not supposed to give up

a 53-yard touchdown to Quez Watkins. And they actually executed that okay against Detroit where they didn't give up one of those huge touchdown plays and they're like okay can you run against us and can you complete short passes but the thing about andy dalton is he can like that's really the only thing that andy dalton could do is sit back there and just deliver on time i remember when he played the vikings in 2020 he had one of the quickest snap-to-release times in the NFL that week because he was basically just catching the ball and getting rid of it,

which if you do that to a group of weapons that's not too bad, actually, with Jarvis Landry, Chris Olave, just one rookie of the month on the offensive side, if you do that with those guys against the defense that is playing over the top and saying, beat us with your short passes, you can actually control the game for a long time, which I think is going to be what opponents will try to do to the Vikings is keep Justin Jefferson off the field. And they're going to say, all right, if you're giving up these long drives, we're going to take these long drives with Winston. There's just no way the guy could sit back there and deliver pass after pass. No way that he's not forcing it deep

into coverage. And I have never understood in all of my years watching Jameis Winston, what the attraction is that there are people who defend Jameis Winston, who say, if he only had this or they Bruce Arian should have done that but they brought in Tom Brady and went from seven wins to the Super Bowl which you know Brady is better than almost everybody but that's a pretty big jump from 30 picks to the Super Bowl he has not been a winner he turns the ball over constantly he eats a W like I just have never really got it aside from the guy was drafted high and has a high yards per attempt because he's always throwing down the field. Yeah, I kind of like watching and rooting for Jameis because he's just like a fun, goofy personality.

And I can sort of understand the appeal in that when he is on, he's capable of making some spectacular throws. Like you look at the 2019 season when he famously went 30 30 with touchdowns and interceptions like only a three players had more big time throws the pff stat than winston in that season nobody had more turnover worthy plays than him and it wasn't even close so there's there's obviously a big downside there and yeah he hasn't really won very much but i can see maybe just every time he throws a perfectly placed deep ball or like a corner out to the end zone you're like oh maybe we can fix him no he's he is who he is and the numbers are pretty staggering like he leads the league with an average depth of target

this year of 12 yards uh nobody else is super close to that he leads the league in next gen stats aggressiveness metric which is how often you throw the ball into a tight window with like less than a yard of separation. He does that like a quarter of the time, which no one else is really close to. So yeah, it's just he has a very unique play style, which I think the Vikings would probably benefit more from than they would be potentially hurt by it.

And there is the risk. Olave leads the league in air yards by a ton. He's become the new target for Winston, who just chucks it deep time after time. He has like 13 targets in each of the last two games. And sometimes it's worked out, but it also kind of hasn't because three of his five interceptions have come when targeting Olave. Like there was one against Tampa Bay where he just chucks it deep in a double coverage in the end zone and Jamel Dean, the safety, picks it off.

So yeah, there's upsides and downsides uh I think the the thing with Andy Dalton is now I'm speaking as an Alvin Kamara fantasy owner this year he has five catches for 19 yards in two games Alvin Kamara is like one of the most prolific pass catching backs that we've ever seen in the NFL he had 80 catches I believe four straight years to start his career playing with Drew Brees. When he gets the ball in space, that dude is really dangerous, and he just hasn't really gotten opportunities to do so.

He's kind of been turned into this between-the-tackles runner, which isn't the best part of his game. I think if Andy Dalton plays, you'll see more checkdowns to Alvin Kamara. You'll see more short intermediate routes to Jarvis Landry and Michael Thomas if he plays he's also uh banged up with with something might be listed as questionable tomorrow we'll see so yeah there's there's just there's it could not be more different in terms of the play styles between the two and like you said the Vikings defense might be better set up to take advantage

of the Winston play style and if Andy Dal plays, he might just take what they give him and do what Jalen Hurts and Jared Goff have done, and maybe not to that same degree, but just take the open man if they're playing with cushion at the line of scrimmage and just try to sustain drives and chew up clock and make it a close game at the end. And how big is the difference really between Jared Goff and Andy Dalton? I mean, I don't think it's a huge difference. I think that they're a very similar

play style. I think golf maybe is a little more athletic and probably has a little more pop in the fastball at this point than Andy Dalton does, but I think that they have to play the same way to succeed for the most part. And that way actually had a lot of success for Jared Goff really until the second half of the game. When I thought that Dan Campbell took the keys away from Goff when he shouldn't have and had no reason to, but they were just trying to run the clock out. Winston seems like when you're playing over the top, you know, two deep safeties corners playing off, that is just a recipe for getting three or four picks against jamis winston because he's going to try to force it into windows that aren't there as

opposed to taking the underneath stuff and it is sort of funny because everybody wants like deep balls and throw it all the time and everything else but this is where you sort of understand the vikings defensive philosophy is you're saying, well, if teams are going to try to do that, here's how we're going to take it away. But then when teams throw underneath, then it's, oh, well, Ed Donatel needs to change his system. Like, well, you can't really have everything unless you have the talent to have everything, which I don't think they really do, which kind of leads me to the next subject, which

is Zedarius Smith not practicing for the second straight day. Delvin Cook was back. Zedarius not back. That does not look very good for Zedarius Smith. Usually Thursday is a pretty good indicator. Friday is the, all right, really, if they're out, they're not practicing Friday. But if they miss a Wednesday, it's not shocking. A lot of veterans will take a wednesday but not practicing on the thursday before you're going over to london not a great sign for zadarius smith this also kind of speaks to like playing andy dalton because dalton back in the day was just like golf or cousins where clean pocket he would make things happen

like enough not be a superstar but enough and I don't know how they pressure the quarterback without Zedaria Smith. Yeah, it'll just put a lot more pressure on Daniil Hunter, who has kind of had a slow start to the season. Like some of the PFF grades and things look good. He's faced some really good right tackles, Lane Johnson, Panay Sewell. But Zedaria Smith has been the more impactful and disruptive of the two. He leads the team with 12 pressures. He kind of is more familiar.

I mean, not kind of. He is more familiar with the role of, hey, I can line up here on the edge. I can line up on the other edge. I can line up over the guard, over the center, because he's done that. And so we've seen some really impressive pass rushes from him up the middle. And Daniel Hunter is capable of that. He's done it a little bit at times in the past, he doesn't have as much experience as Z'Darrius with it so I think there's been kind of an adjustment uh period for Daniel Hunter into

this new defense because he's so used to just being four three my hands in the ground every play and I'm going to rush off the edge so yeah it would be a huge loss if Z'Darrius Smith can't play because then you're really testing that depth with it would probably be DJ Wanham. Maybe some Patrick Jones plays more as well. Like those guys have been solid in their roles this year, but it's one thing to be this third down pass rush special pass rush specialist and come in and just have one job to get after the quarterback. It's another to play on early downs, too, and have to set edges against the run and have to handle all these different responsibilities so yeah it's kind of a unique situation with the vikings they they practice today like normal and now tonight they're getting on a plane to london and they're going to try to like adjust to the time zone they're

going to try to stay on central time mostly um but adjust to having to practice tomorrow and do all these different things and um maybe zedaria smith gets gets some work on the plane and and in london tomorrow and gets a practice in and has a chance to play but yeah it's not looking particularly great for his chances and with daniel hunter interestingly i saw that seth walder of espn tweeted out a chart of which uh defensive ends, pass rushers, outside linebackers, whatever you want to call them, have been double teamed the most. And Zedarius Smith has drawn actually a lot more double teams,

and I'm sure that speaks to who is playing right tackle. As you mentioned, they have faced some very good ones against Daniel Hunter. But if he's not playing, this will give the Saints an opportunity to put as much attention on Daniel Hunter. But if he's not playing, this will give the Saints an opportunity to put as much attention on Daniel Hunter as they want, because by those numbers, it's clear that opponents are paying a lot of attention to Zedarius Smith. They're putting doubles on him. They're afraid of him game wrecking and that they've much more been apt to leave Daniel Hunter one-on-one, which was also the case statistically when it came to Everson Griffin through the years. But of course, it wasn't always Lane Johnson. It wasn't always

Penance Sewell to the right tackle. I do think there's an increase in good right tackles. Ryan Ramchak is another one for the New Orleans Saints, who's very, very good. I don't know about his injury status, if he's 100%. I think he was back to limited today, so he's probably going to play. Okay. So if he's going to play, again again that's a very good right tackle with help and one of the things that's just become a trend with this defense and I don't have any idea how to stop it or how to change it is that they are getting zero pressure up the middle if Zedaria Smith doesn't rush up the middle and Ross Blacklock was supposed to be that guy

that just took the spot of Armond Watts. We have barely seen him. He's played like 10 snaps a game, essentially. And I guess I just wonder if they need to start going into that bag a little bit with Blacklock to play him a little bit more. And I'm sure that it's hard because he just got here and he's trying to learn the defense and everything else but if Zedaria Smith is out they need to find someone to pressure

up the middle and with DJ Wanham it's always a funny thing with Wanham because his sack numbers he gets some sacks he definitely does over the last two years but you look at everything else and how consistently that happens and I know that Andre Patterson used to put a lot of focus on this and I totally agreed with him that consistent pressure is way more effective than the occasional sack. You can't really predict if you're going to get a sack. Usually it has to do with the quarterback holding the ball too long, but if you're disrupting the quarterback consistently, well, then that's much more of a problem for the offense. And he just hasn't really done that over the last couple of years and including extended stretches where he's been a starter. I don't know that there's an answer here. In fact, well, I don't know that when anything goes wrong for the defense,

there's ever going to be an answer. Like Andrew Booth Jr. is still hurt. If a cornerback goes down, step on up to the plate, a Caleb Evans. We did see Josh Metellus step in well for Harrison Smith and Harrison Smith looks like he's going to be back from his concussion, but it's just a caleb evans um we did see josh metellus step in well for harrison smith and harrison smith looks like he's going to be back from his concussion but it's just a reminder each week like how how uh thin the ice is for this defense that when one guy goes out we go i don't know i don't know what the answer is here yeah safety may be the only position where you feel decent about the depth with with scene kind of starting to get up to speed. And Josh Metellus, like you said, he played well.

It was funny. We were in Philadelphia watching the Vikings-Eagles game, and DJ Wanham beats the tackle and, like, gets a legit sack, like an impressive sack. And we were like, hey, like, that's a rare thing. Like, you can kind of count on one hand how many times that's happened. He had eight sacks last year, and they were just almost all of the cleanup or coverage sack varieties.

So it's a big opportunity potentially for him if Smith doesn't play. For Patrick Jones, who is maybe a little bit less of a known commodity than Wanham, we just haven't seen him play quite as much, and he drew a lot of praise during training camp, but still kind of it's a lot of projection. If you're thinking Patrick Jones is going to go out there and have a good day. We just haven't really seen it. The interior defensive line thing is interesting because, yeah, they you trade Arman Watts, who is your best interior pass rusher.

And that was kind of a head scratching move at the time. You get Ross Blacklock and then, yeah, Ross Blacklock just hasn't really played. I think he I don't think he was even 10 snaps last week. I think it was like four or five. And they've chosen to go with Jonathan Bullard and James Lynch instead as your kind of rotational defensive tackles behind Harrison Phillips and Dalvin Tomlinson. And all four of those guys are just run stoppers.

Like none of them are going to give you much pass rush juice. I mean, it's tough for Phillips and Tomlinson because they almost always are getting double teamed in the middle of that, of everything. But Bullard's not a pass rusher. He's in there to stop the run. James Lynch, very much not a pass rusher, despite what we maybe thought of him coming out of the draft. Like I get what they're doing because with this Donatello defense that plays

two high safeties and plays off and kind of invites the run you want to have run stoppers in the middle but man then you're sacrificing a lot of pass rush juice and when you can't get pressure up the middle even if Daniel Hunter and Zedaria Smith are winning off the edge like oftentimes a quarterback can just then step up into a into a relatively unbothered pocket and deliver throws that way. So, yeah, if Smith can't play, the Vikings' ability to get pressure is going to be absolutely something to watch, especially with a quarterback like Dalton, if it's Dalton,

who's going to get the ball out pretty quickly. If it's Winston, I mean, I was just looking it up on StatHead. From 2015 to 2019, two quarterbacks in the NFL had 50 fumbles and they were Jameis Winston and Kirk Cousins like he's gonna sit in the pocket and part of that aggressive mentality of looking for deep shots like you have to let those routes develop so he's gonna sit in the pocket and there are gonna be times where you can get to him and sack him and I think he's fifth in sacks taken this year with a pretty good offensive line so that that is a quarterback stat in a lot of ways.

Yeah, it's absolutely going to be something to watch because if Dalton can just sit in there, or Winston, can just sit in there and deliver throws against clean pockets, it could be a long day for the Vikings secondary. Now, along those lines you bring up, Kirk, it is interesting the last couple of years that kirk has not been sacked as much and has not had those fumbles but then there's been a lot of asking kirk to throw the ball farther down the field and it's always the give and take of kirk

cousins it's like well he's not getting sacked very much this year but his average depth of target is the lowest that it's ever been and last year at the beginning of the season it was pretty low as well until mike zimmer tried to force him to throw downfield and then he got worse when he tried to force it downfield and the offensive line does seem to be legitimately better for the vikings this year so i think that that factors into it as well i don't think there's any question about it at this moment that it's better. Now, the right guard situation is still problematic when it comes to the pass rush, but the tackles have played fantastic football,

and Garrett Bradbury has played improved, and we'll see how much longer that lasts if that is a full season thing or it's a small sample size thing. But I guess what I expected to hear this week from cousins from kevin o'connell justin jefferson adam thielen was more about how they were going to fix the offense and i guess with the novelty of going over to london that kind of dominated press conferences and things like that and when you win it's like oh yeah i don't know we'll see we'll fix the offense and i'm sure that's not their mentality inside the building when they're looking back at the tape,

but it just, we didn't really get any concrete answers of like what has happened the last two weeks. And somebody asked a really good fans only question. I'll direct it your way. Will like how many weeks until we get to be judgy about this? Because after three weeks, I can't say that I really understand their offensive identity. And I also understand when you make such a monumental change in the off season, that it's not easy and they've gone through some things or Smith struggling out of the gate and so forth and some confusion,

some frustration on the sideline. How many weeks until we say, hey, this offense was really supposed to look better? Because I don't think that three is enough to really evaluate it. I think it kind of the schedule works out well where we're three weeks in and we have three more weeks until the bye week in week seven. They play the Saints on Sunday. They come back to play the terrible Bears at home, and then they go to Miami to play a currently undefeated,

recording this before Thursday night football, a currently undefeated Miami Dolphins team. I think at the bye week is going to be a good opportunity on both sides of the ball, not just offense, to kind of take a step back and look at the body of work through six games, which is a legitimate sample size, much more than three games is, and to say, hey, what's working offensively and defensively? What isn't working? And how maybe sustainable are the things that are working?

And how worrisome are the things that aren't working? Because there are legitimately worrisome things on both sides of the ball for this team, despite being two and one. And the Vikings kind of pulled that game out of nowhere against the Lions. Dan Campbell helped them with some decision making. Obviously, Kirk Cousins made a couple of great throws to KJ Osborne at the end. But I think the fact that they won that game has just kind of altered the discourse around the team this week. Like if they had lost that game, which it looked like they were going to for the majority of the game after falling behind 14,

nothing. And then again, 24, 14, like there would be, I think a lot more of the pseudo panic going on because they didn't play very well. And the offense got off to a slow start.

Again, the defense was really bad in the first half, just giving up a ton of cushion, separation, easy throws for Jared Goff. Like, there were real problems, and I think the fact that they won kind of masked those things. So this week will be a good test, offensively especially, against a good Saints defense. Like, can they continue to have the run game work,

or was that just the Lions Lions run defense being bad? Like, can they get Justin Jefferson the ball when teams try to take him away? And like, just what what is the identity of the offense going to be? Like, are they going to use more play action? Are they going to throw it more? Like, we just haven't, we haven't seen a lot that's been super encouraging from this offense that was supposed to be just the new innovative thing that was going to drive this team and there have been moments where it's looked good but we need to see it a little bit more I would say I'd say after week six we will uh if the offense still isn't looking great it's time to start ringing some uh some alarm bells yeah it really was fascinating and I know I've brought it up probably too many times on the show this week but I'm kind of captivated by it that when I watched the all 22 tape back I was like I can't believe how much this looks like their offense the last few years I mean there was just so many similarities the running the football running the play action out of a weak eye formation with CJ Hamm and Ben Ellefson out of the field. I'm like, what?

Which works for a first down, but I just did not expect to see that. I really expected shotgun guys flying around before the snap, all sorts of crazy motions and different looking formations. And we just didn't see a lot of that last week. And it almost seemed like Kevin O'Connellconnell kind of going i'm gonna have to pair this back a little bit versus putting cousins in the shotgun all the time which brings up which brings up a topic that i'm like not sure if i should ask or not yet um is kirk cousins as physically good now as he was before i i mean i don't mean this to try to be like confirming me knowing his age and the history of quarterbacks as they get into their mid-30s which outside of

all-time great quarterbacks is not great like it's he's he's teetering on that age where quarterbacks start to fall off check flacco man eli manning matt andy dalton all right andy dalton's a great example. The guy's been a backup and he's around the same age. And, uh, so, you know, maybe there's a little like confirmation bias. I know his age, I know the history. And so I'm saying, wait, but I don't know if I'm seeing like the juice on the fastball. Um, you know, even the, the balls that have been downfield have really floated quite a bit, or am I just, I don't know, like, because I knew that it was going to be an issue that he couldn't make tight window throws like Stafford. I knew that was not going to, they were not going to

be able to play the exact same offense as Los Angeles because the arm strength is not there, but he's not really even like moving around at all. Not that he ever moved a ton, but like at all. And the throws, I just don't know how much he's trusting the velo on some of the throws to get them in there. So I don't know what you think about that. No, I think it's a legitimate concern based on what we've seen through three weeks. I mean, that Packers game looked really good for cousins, but the reality of it is that people were wide open.

Justin Jefferson was wide open a bunch of times. He played well. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to take anything away from that, but it wasn't like he was making all of these big-time throws and fitting them in tight windows and things like that. And then the last two weeks, it's just been a lot of weird little inaccuracy things, like just missing people. And the Eagles game I mean there was the Eagles played well in coverage but this this most recent game against the Lions like

watching the tape there's just times where he missed people who were open and he even admitted like when he got hit and overthrew KJ Osborne on what could have been a touchdown early in the game he was like I didn't think that was going to get there and then it sailed long and then he had another one where he thought he threw it too far and it was right there like he's like I got to work on my distances a little bit so yeah I mean I don't know it's it's weird it's just you're not used to seeing that level of like I don't even want to say inaccuracy but not like high level accuracy because that is the whole selling point with Kirk cousins is that he's not going to like beat you outside of the pocket and off schedule and make,

do all these Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes things. But when he's given a clean pocket, he's going to throw the ball very accurately and make throws to, to all three levels and operate out of play action at a very, very efficient and explosive rate with bootlegs and things like that that we've seen over the past few years, not quite as much this year.

So, yeah, I think it's still early. And obviously there have been some good throws by Kirk this year. The team's 2-1, but it's something to watch for sure, especially this week. I mean, I keep going back to it. The Saints' defense is really good. Cam Jordan, the offense has been terrible, but the defense is top 10 in EPA, DVOA, things like that.

Up front is Cam Jordan, Marcus Davenport, good edge rushers. You've got really good linebackers to Mario Davis. And then you've got Marshawn Lattimore, who, like, Justin Jefferson's had two slow weeks. Thiswn Lattimore who like Justin Jefferson's had two slow weeks this isn't a great week for Justin Jefferson to try to bounce back and have another big game like I'm sure he wants to because Marshawn Lattimore is one of the best cornerbacks in the league uh so that that match will be will be something to watch but yeah I mean it's this is a tough challenge going against this the Saints defense which has a lot of continuity and it's

coaching Dennis Allen their new head coach, has been the defensive coordinator there for a long time. Like, good scheme. Yeah, we'll see. If Kirk Cousins plays really well against this defense, I think that would be a little surprising. If he's okay, they can probably win with it. If he has a really rough outing,

then we need to start being i think seriously concerned i i only bring it up just because i mean think about this like so i was sitting next to sam extram as always in the press box and he said you know does it look like irv smith like just doesn't have any velocity like like that he's just not running as fast as he was before which could be a product of working his way back in after so long away. And Delvin cook, I think you can see it doesn't quite have the same burst where there were plays where I think he hits the edge and takes off down the sideline for 30

or 40 yards against the lions. And instead it was like 12, which is okay, but it's not like what he was doing before. And with cousins just to my eye, and we've watched every pass the man has thrown as a minnesota viking when he would have time to really like dig in and let it rip he could put some good velo behind the ball but i feel like since midway through last year i just

haven't seen it in the same way but i also don't know if I'm like reconstructing this backwards, thinking about his age as he plays. But I also like you bring up Andy Dalton. This definitely did happen with Andy Dalton where he completely lost confidence in throwing the ball down the field at all, because I think his arm strength dropped off a bit. And then it was just all check downs, all short stuff, which again could be good for new Orleans this week. But as far as the reason he can't really be a starter anymore i think that's part of it and if you had to guess and again you've watched every game so far how many passes over 20 yards do you think kirk cousins in the air has thrown so far this year. Attempted? Attempted, yeah. Okay, so not even completed. Man, I mean, you can think of a couple

to Jefferson and Osborne off the top of your head, or the Irv one. I'd say like eight. Eight is correct, actually, yes. It's only making up 7% of his pass attempts. And just to give some context, last year it was making up 13% of his pass attempts, and uh just to give some context last year it was making up 13 percent of his pass attempts and the same with 2020 so i guess james winston is probably at like 40 percent of

his past yeah for me it's just something i've been thinking about watching him in training camp but i wasn't sure whether i wanted to say out loud yet um so i guess that's yeah put it under the category of things to watch. Now, as this offense goes up against a very good New Orleans defense that you mentioned, I think that no matter what you have to, and this is going to be a blazing hot take, Will, just prepare yourself, get the ball to Justin Jefferson.

It just, it just has to happen. Marshawn Lattimore is great. He is one of the best at his job, but if they can't find a way for that to happen two weeks in a row is like, well, you know, I don't know. Like team switched it up on him. Three weeks is a trend. And three weeks is also a, like the receiver starts wondering what the heck is going on, which I wanted to ask you about. Oh. And by the way way with this subject of kirk there were times on the film where someone broke open where if you let it loose and you have a cannon you're getting the pass then he didn't make it um so that's talking about that trust thing of like throws he didn't make as well and jefferson did have a few of those

this is like storyline number one aside of do you win the game to me is are you getting Jefferson back involved in the way that we expected him to be going into the season? Yeah, it really is. And I don't think it's unfair or like trying to, you know, come up with some media narrative like to say that not only has Justin Jefferson not been super productive over the last two weeks at all but there's been times where to me he just hasn't looked quite as engaged and has just looked a little off there was a couple against the Eagles that were like this there were a couple against the Lions that were like this where like Jeff Okuda was in decent position and maybe it was a contested ball but you expect him to make that

and he didn't and then there's a little like maybe reading too much into it but there's a little like body language stuff afterwards and jefferson is is obviously he's a team first guy and he wants to they're two and one and he's happy with that but like he also has talked a ton about he wants to have 2 000 yards this year and he wants to be the best receiver in the league and i think it's definitely like impacting him a little bit to some degree that he hasn't produced like he wanted to over the last two weeks so if there's more of that this week then yeah it becomes a trend it becomes something to watch and I'm not suggesting like oh diva Stefan dig situation here but like they got to find ways to get him in the ball and that could be just scheming up, like, little reverses for him

or little short passes or just various things, especially early in games, that you can draw up as Kevin O'Connell to, like, make sure Justin Jefferson gets the ball and is part of the game plan and is feeling engaged. And I think that can go a long way over the course of a game, too. So, yeah, I expect, I mean,

he's going to see a lot of Marshawn Lattimore. He's probably going to see a lot of double teams and, and safety over the top and, and Lattimore using the kind of press trail man technique that we saw Jeff Okuda do a lot. And it's going to be bracketed, but like, you still have to find ways to give him the ball,

regardless of what the coverage is. He is your best player on offense. You have to find ways to give him the ball regardless of what the coverage is he is your best player on offense you have to find ways to give him the ball and the other thing I'll say is I think KJ Osborne is still kind of like I think he could be a big player to watch the rest of this season because Justin Jefferson is going to get all of the attention Adam Thielen is still a good player but man he's not really creating separation like 2017 2018 adam thielen did and and he can still make those contested catches and he's going to be a red zone weapon and all that it's good player good blocker but i think kj osborne could

start to see more and more looks because kj osborne can separate and he can get open over the middle of the field he can get open deep he can he's also the best run blocker on the team if you go by pff like especially with irv smith jr having some some drop issues and not separating a ton like i'm looking at kj osborne as maybe the guy who i it wouldn't be ridiculous to me if he finished second on the team in like catches and yards and things like that from a receiving standpoint. I think Thielen is still definitely the favorite of that. He just plays more snaps. Like when there's two receivers, he's going to be out there over Osborne. But for me, I think KJ Osborne is somebody to keep a close eye on every week now going forward.

I'm curious. I'm looking this up right now. Yeah. KJ Osborne last week played the most in the slot that he's played this year. And I think that's going to stay that way. This is the difficult balance that you have three receivers. I mean, Jefferson should be able to do anything, but three receivers who right now in their careers are probably better in the slot. Like that's always going to be the case for KJ Osborne. Adam Thielen probably needs that a little bit to get away from some of the physical play. I think he's also going to get beat up if they,

like when I watched that game last week, I thought like, wow, the lions got flagged a lot and could have gotten flagged a lot more, not an excuse, but they were very physical with the Vikings receivers. And if they do that to Adam Thielen every week, like these, these teams have all of a sudden changed around how they play defense against

the Minnesota Vikings. Because I think that in past years, teams were very afraid of getting roasted by either receiver. And now they're only really afraid of getting roasted by one receiver. And I did, by the way, get my first is Justin Jefferson, a diva email. So it's like, if you had that on your bingo board, what week would I get the is Justin Jefferson, a diva email? It was week three. I don't think that Justin Jefferson is at all a diva. I don't think he's acted like that at all. When I think of someone who is like arrogant or conceited or whatever else. I think it's when they don't do the work because every player cares about their individual, everything, their contract, their production, their reputation, just a Jefferson wants to wear a gold jacket someday, right?

He wants to be the best wide receiver in the league. Well, I mean like that, those things, those things aren't selfish. Those things are like a guy who's very highly motivated to try to be the best. And who's always shown that. But the one drawback of having aspirations that high is that you put a lot of pressure on yourself. And I think that with Jefferson, maybe, maybe he's finding out that Mike Zimmer wasn't as crazy as everyone thought, but you know, maybe part of it is there was all this off season stuff. Like every conversation leading into this year was, Hey, Justin, you're going to catch like a gazillion passes this year. Right. It was like, yeah, man, I'm going to like win MVP and be the best player of all time. And then he got into the season and realized like, oh, there's other football players in the NFL as well.

There's other defensive coordinators you're playing. I mean, Aaron Glenn had a amazing game plan against the Vikings. They did a great job at executing it. And Jeff Akuta is a top draft pick. Like it's not easy. And it wasn't just going to be like, oh,

if they put them in motion, like, yeah, defenses have been preparing for this, the flood of motion for like three years now oh not the Packers defense apparently but yeah except the Packers defense that was just hilariously lost um but won't be the next time they face them so the point just being that like when you see the body language I also was curious about that as well in the game and i think that throughout the season it will be one of those

big swing things with him is like does he look like he's getting what he wants to achieve or or is he not and i mean winning is going to matter a lot to that but even like with stefan diggs where we were you know he got called everything in the book, a cancer in the locker room and a diva and everything else. It's like, it's the same deal though. Like these guys want to achieve stuff. They want to win. They want to have their names in the pro bowl. They want to get their contracts and everything else. Like any great competitor does. Uh, they want to have the individual success. So when you put that much pressure on yourself, I think it becomes that much harder when you're having an off day, if you're a rookie and they're doubling you up and you're getting not,

not that much attention, but Adam Thielen's having a big day. You can be like, Oh, wow. That was, that was okay. Like that was great over there. But when the contract is coming and when the hype comes, I just think it's something he's going to have to deal with throughout the season. And he's going to be looking to that coach to say, you're the one who is supposed to have the solutions to all my problems. Draw me up a play. And, and that, that right there, there was a conversation on the sideline on Sunday and that right there, how many conversations will there be with Justin Jefferson and Kevin O'Connell? But I think that this week will just goes a super long way toward eliminating that narrative, getting rid of all that.

He roasts Marshawn Lattimore, gets 100 yards receiving touchdown. They win. Then everybody goes like, oh, OK, back to normal. If he catches four passes for 36 yards, it's going to feel like what is going on. Yeah, we talked about this before the season, about just the pressure that Justin Jefferson 36 yards, it's going to feel like what is going on. Yeah. We talked about this before the season about just the pressure that Justin Jefferson is kind of facing and is kind of put on himself with just the historic way he started his career. Like if he ends up with like 1100 yards and six touchdowns this year,

like that's a good season from a wide receiver. It would feel like a major disappointment, major disappointment from him because he had 1400 as a rookie and he had 1600 last year and he's talking about 2000 this year and breaking randy moss's single season record and all these things and there's just such a balance to it because like the lions you could make a case that the lions lost that game because of the attention that they were putting on justin jefferson like i think for the most part it was a smart game plan because they limited the vikings best player and for most of the game it worked but like at the end of that game they had three

guys looking at justin jefferson and kj osborne just waltzes into the end zone untouched like they kind of lost that game because of how much they were paying attention to justin jefferson and kevin o'connell said that like i mean even on look look at the adam thielen one yard touchdown that was the vikings first score of the game jefferson commanded a ton of attention on that they they brought him in motion across like they did on that touchdown he scored against the packers a bunch of people go with him adam thielen slips open in the back of the end zone so there's just such a balance there like it's it's helpful to the team to have the gravity that Jefferson does and to be this player that draws so much attention.

But Kevin O'Connell said after the game, that's not good enough. Like they need to still find ways. He needs to find ways to get Jefferson open and get him the ball because at some point Jefferson is not going to be fine anymore with being a really talented decoy gravity attention drawer guy. He wants to have the ball in his hands, and he wants to produce, and that is understandable. So that balance and how that plays out is, yeah, one of the biggest storylines on the team going into this week and beyond.

Another part of that is that Kirk Cousins statistically, when going to anything but his first read is not great. And Jefferson is his first read most of the time. And so you're asking your quarterback to kind of do something that's a little bit separate from what he's best at if he's having to go through his progressions, which also could be part of the reason that it looks a little slow sometimes where you're saying like, shouldn't you be throwing the football? And that's to your point. The offensive line has performed quite well to be able to hold up,

but it will get harder as the season goes along. If he's going to hold onto the ball as long as he can or as long as he has. So I have a quick game for you. But first, do you think the Vikings win this football contest in the new turf that was motorized in or whatever they do over there? Because Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Yeah, you can't touch the sacred grass. So they move the sacred grass.

I saw the way that that engineering works is kind of crazy. Well, this is a big deal, right? Because we have been in agreement on each of the first three games, and we haven't been wrong yet. I think the Vikings win, and I don't feel super great about that, just like I didn't feel super great in week one or week three when I said they would win, but they did. I just think whether it's Jameis Winston or Andy Dalton,

that is a gift either way for the biggest weakness on this Vikings team, which is the defense. I mean, you could get into more specific weaknesses, but as a whole, the defense is a bigger weakness with what we've seen so far. And I think getting to face a quarterback like that, they will be able to play pretty well. And then the Vikings offense going into saints defense is kind of strength on strength, but I think the Vikings have enough enough weapons to,

to make some plays. Dalvin cook returning to practice is a good sign. So yeah, I think the Vikings will, we'll move to three and O in the United Kingdom. I also think that, but I've got two different scores based on who starts a quarterback. I think if Jameis Winston starts a quarterback, the Vikings win 28 to 10. I don't think it's even close. I think he throws picks

and it's a struggle and the Vikings win. If Andy Dalton starts, I think they win 21, 17, and it's a, it's kind of a grind, but it's going to be closer and he's going to get their playmakers, the ball and so forth. I just think that it's a really big difference between those two quarterbacks. And I could be giving Andy Dalton too much credit, but it's really like the style stuff we talked about earlier that Winston, if he plays, especially without a week of practice, the travel, everything else. I mean, you're just asking for 320 yards and four picks from James Winston would be like a classic Winston stat line. All right.

Before we wrap up, I just want to know this. How many New Orleans Saints quarterbacks ever can you name that are not named drew breeze or obviously like james winston and andy dalton oh dear just ever new orleans saints quarterbacks because breeze was the quarterback for so long from 2006 to 2020 if that's right so this would all have to be pre-2006 well not yeah i mean there are a couple other ones mixed in as backup quarterbacks who played like trevor simeon that's ding go go northwestern even though yeah he uh started four games okay i'll give you an obvious one aaron brooks uh yep um he was good he was in the the book of old quarterbacks that I had as a kid.

And then after that, oh, man, I don't even – that's the one that jumps out to me. There's some other obvious ones, I imagine. Well, I can start giving you hints. One is a tight end. Taysom Hill. Uh-huh. There's several.

I wasn't thinking about that because he's like, I thought we weren't doing on the active roster. Well, just, oh, yeah. Okay, fair enough. But he's right. Yeah. That would be another funny thing, by the way, is if we spent all this time talking about Winston and Dalton

and they just like play Taysom Hill at quarterback a bunch. Because he torched the Vikings in that wildcard game a few years ago. And I think he went four and one as a starter. Okay. So, all right, well, yeah,

I just wanted to count him to call him a tight end. There's a Viking connection, a recent Viking connection. A recent Viking connection. Somebody played in place. Yeah. Teddy. Teddy.

Yeah. Teddy came in a game in 2018 as a wide receiver he also went like five and oh in did 2019 right he did yes uh it was a grind but he did uh let's see so um let's say that let's say you're a person who who um doesn't hold back a whole lot you are an open book ian book in book yep that's right that's good uh okay so i have an obsession with backup quarterbacks as you know from the 1990s specifically yes and 2000s and and one of the most famous ones his brother got in a game for the saints one of the most famous if you talk about definitive journeyman backup quarterbacks this oh is this a josh mccallan luke mccallan situation mccallan

yes correct in 2015 luke mccallan got in a game uh how about this this lefty who was amazing for the jacksonville jaguars in the late 90s. Mark Brunel. Yes. Mark Brunel played in 2009. Okay. This is a local connection. I don't know if you know this one, though. Guy played briefly for the Vikings, is from Minnesota,

still lives in Minnesota, and only played a handful of games in the NFL. Backup quarterback, never was really a starter, but started a couple times for the Vikings. Minnesota. Like recent or? Not that recent, like 05. Okay.

But you'll know the name, though. Yeah. I'm going to pass on that one. Okay. That would be Todd Bauman. Okay. Some other Minnesota connections. I'll just read you some of the other funny names here on this list. Wade Wilson started for them in 93. That's another Minnesota connection. and brooks you had jeff blake jake delome billy joe tolliver billy joe hobart carrie collins danny warfel heath schuler something named doug nussimer or nussmeyer never heard of him he barely

played mike buck steve walsh and a guy who i was on the radio yesterday with, who's still in new Orleans, Bobby a bear. And then it goes back from there. So nice. What a list. I actually, the name Wade Wilson briefly popped in my mind. I'm not making that up, but I didn't have the, I don't have the guts to say it because he roasted them in the late

eighties and then he became their quarterback. But yeah, I'm sure that it's a total coincidence that they did all their winning with drew breeze and not Danny Warfel and Billy Joe Hobart. Because quarterbacks and winning have nothing to do with each other. It's the guards. I see what you're going for here. Grow up, people.

Look at this franchise. Look at this franchise. Is this, what is that, a coincidence? Anyway. So, well, okay. This will be a very interesting game to study, though. And great that we'll be able to wake up early and watch it. Neither of us are going over to London,

and we'll see if we're going to end up at the Bucks and Chiefs, maybe? I don't know. No, they came out today. It's going to be in Tampa. It's not happening, huh? I saw politicians were saying that it's going to be in tampa but i also don't trust politicians no i think it was like like schaefter and everybody was saying okay okay it's definitely gonna be in tampa well that's a shame i would have yeah it would have been cool but so i hope for the safety of people in florida

absolutely yeah no this is uh this is fun as always. And yeah, waking up early Sunday morning to watch some, uh, some football in England. Can't wait. We will catch you all later. And as always, we'll have, uh, all the coverage after the game and so forth and carry on. So thanks Will for your time and thank you all for listening.