Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is it JJ McCarthy time? A roundtable discussion

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Will the Vikings go to JJ McCarthy? Matthew Coller, Brian Murphy and Manny Hill discuss.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here. And look who has decided to drop by. We got quarterback drama. And suddenly, Manny Hill and Brian Murphy are back for a roundtable. My phone is blowing up. Please let me come talk about it. I have to do a roundtable. My phone is blowing up. Please let me come talk about it. I have to do a roundtable. Murph's calling and begging and so you know what Murph we're making it happen and he said can you

please bring Manny too and there's Manny so we got ourselves a roundtable but you know what we don't have is an answer about the quarterback situation so why don't we just start the discussion with whether you guys thought it would play out this way? If this is surprising to you, Murph, since you so badly wanted this, why don't we begin with you? Did you think that this was going to be resolved, the tag in trade, or are you not shocked that we're once again in Viking land, walking up to the beginning of free agency and the answer is not all set yet? Well, I'm never surprised when the Vikings have intrigue at the quarterback position, uh, said everybody who's followed them since about 1985.

So that I'm not surprised. Um, it seems pretty clear that the Vikings really, really tried to thread the needle here as much as they could publicly, and also kind of feel out the combine, feel out, you know, the unofficial, unsanctioned drinking at the steakhouse's gossip rooms where you're trying to get maybe fair market value ideas. You're trying to get an idea of are there suitors, is it worth tagging in trade, is it worth pursuing that, is another team really gonna play ball if they can just go negotiate with him on the open market. So

I think all of those things that have been swirling around since the end of the season and all of these, well what about this and what about that and there's this pathway and how about that? It's all kind of coming to a head here because obviously the deadlines are here. It just feels like the, you know, the the smartest guys in the room really did try to leverage as much as they can out of this. But it seems as much as they may be saying, they're still playing footsie under the table here, it looks like the Darnold era is over. But we still have a week to go.

And maybe, I think what I've said all along, and I still truly believe this, maybe it's a third Darnold, a third the financial market, and a third Viking slash politics. And maybe even, let's go quarter, quarter, quarter, and throw McCarthy in there. There's so many conflicting pressure points and leverage points and discussions that I guess this is the only way it's going to kind of be resolved is really through just a really tight

window here. It's nothing if not intriguing. I mean, I usually don't get fired up about March in the NFL, but this is the most compelling question lingering right now in the NFL offseason. Manny, did you think that by this date we would feel resolved or did you think that it would go as a countdown down to the first day of the legal tampering period? I thought we would get some answers by now just because of the the franchise tag deadline. I thought you know I thought the Vikings were going to find a way to franchise franchise tag Sam Darnold and get some sort of a trade done. But it seems like whatever these teams are thinking, these quarterback needy teams and there are a few of them

This year It just seems like they're all gonna say we're not gonna give up any assets to try and get Sam Darnold and we're not gonna pay Him, you know 40 whatever 40 plus million dollars a season. We're gonna let this thing play out we're gonna you know, let the Vikings decide what they want to do we're gonna put it in their hands and And make the decision for us. And then if Sam Darnold becomes a free agent, we're just going to, we're going to pursue him and sign him without having to give anything up. So that's what it seems like the way it's, it's, it's kind of played out, um, with the NFL and Sam Darnold.

And if you're the Vikings, it's now you're in a situation where, now what do you do? Do you decide to bring Sam Darnold back and on a sort of a team friendly deal if he's willing to take that and have him and JJ McCarthy duke it out in the off season? Or do you just let Sam walk and say, we're moving on to JJ McCarthy? And right now it's hard to really get a read,

from my perspective, it's hard to get a read exactly on what they wanna do right now. I think that they might wanna just move on to JJ McCarthy, but it's hard to tell. I mean, we don't really know. This regime, this quasi-KOC regime, they don't really play their hand. And a lot of the stuff that they say publicly through the media to fans

Is a lot of it is just it's just chatter. It's just talk and so It's really hard to get a read on exactly what they're thinking and I think really everything all Possibilities are still on the table at this point. So what's very noticeable to me is that especially the NFL network people, Palisaro, Rappaport, Rich Eisen have talked about this as if the Vikings definitely want to try to bring him back. Rich Eisen said that he heard they were working on a long-term negotiation. Then he added, well, if that's wrong, who knows or something. And I was like, well, it kind of matters if it's wrong or maybe it does it in 2025. And with Palisero, a few weeks ago, he said the smart money was on Sam Darnold returning, which I thought, all right, well, I don't know what that really

means, like what's the distribution of the money, the smart money can lean 30% really means like what's the distribution of the money? The smart money can lean 30% return to the Vikings and 29% to the Raiders and 28% to the steel, right? I mean, that could still make the Vikings the favorite. And it also could be that they go out and they tell everyone who asks, we'd love to have Sam back. That doesn't mean they're telling the truth. You are not under any obligation to tell NFL media the truth about what's actually going on in your heads. But the other thing that I've thought about a lot is how the Vikings have negotiated in the past with some players

that they wanted back, but only at a certain price. And Daniel Hunter comes to mind. Everyone knows how good Daniel Hunter is, but once the money got to, what did he get? 27, $28 million. They were like, that's just too much for us to invest in one player who's had neck injury and so forth. And they ended up going to Jonathan Grenard. And Murph, I think this might be the same case where there's a dollar figure.

I would have thought that dollar figure would have been way too low just based on how they handled Kirk. Okay, if you're gonna come back on that middling Geno Smith type of contract, that $30 million that we can make look like $10 million for another year, then we would consider it because it's better to have two good quarterbacks than one.

But my assumption was that someone was gonna come in and say, 45, $50 million at Sam Darnold's door. And I think it's altogether possible, Murph, that that just hasn't happened yet. And the Vikings don't have an indication that it's going to happen. So they have to kind of tell people who ask, like, yeah, we would still be in under the right circumstances. And they're not going to throw that number out there. And really what's happening is you've got some back channel going on, but the quarterback, free agent quarterback market really is not set yet.

I mean, we can speculate and put ranges in there, but you're right, if the Vikings have a line in the sand, if they have a term limit, if they have, the offer they made, Cousins was almost laughable. It was just a fig leaf to say we tried, but they knew he was going to leverage everything and, you know, ransom some team, which he did with the Falcons. I don't know if Darnold wants to do that. He may, and he's, as the Vikings have said over and over, which is their, quote, du jour, he's earned the right to become a free agent, which is the exact opposite of saying, he's our guy for 2025.

It's the softest way you cannot commit. So I want to see what the market is. And that's what I think is so fascinating about this. There's so many cross-currents. There are so many factors. What are other teams going to be willing to pony up in term and money? Maybe they're not as high on Darnold. Maybe they should, maybe the Vikings are higher than the rest of the league is. And, you know, as unfair as it might be, the last two impressions we have of Darnold on the field are not good. And that's going to linger a bit. So there's that. What does Darnold want? Does he want to hit a financial home run? Does he want the security of he can succeed be a 28 year old quarterb

have to compete with a se for that job. And there's of, okay, what happens in going to be a battle betw What happens if they're o getting booed and benched to be thinking all of the not as So it's not as easy to say whatever the Vikings want and Donald want, they should be able to find an agreement. I'm not sure

they're going to be on the same page. And the Vikings have the political issue too of awkwardly telling your franchise quarterback chill for another year. You can frame it as, okay, this is really his rookie year because he blew his meniscus in August. Still a tough sell to McCarthy. And again, does McAr, uh, Darnold want to look over his shoulder if he can go to Pittsburgh or Tennessee as you wrote Collor and no one's, no one's mentioned Sam Darnold in Tennessee. So it's just all, you know, all of these things are all coming to a head and it, everybody's best plans may not align because they're not in total control of the situation.

So just going back to the is it real when you mentioned JJ McCarthy, when he was on with Rich Eisen and he said, I just want to be able to compete and there's things that are above KOC's head in my head. That made me wonder like if they told them it's possible that Sam Darnold comes back and then prepared. Yeah, you may be battling. Have they told them there's a battle, but if you signed Arnold to a contract, then do you trade him if he loses the battle? Is he a backup who is going to be traded to the first team that gets a quarterback injured? Like did the Vikings want this security blanket in case JJ McCarthy were to get hurt again or in case McCarthy just didn't look like he was as far along Going into camp as he was last year because he missed so much time and he has to relearn with his feet and legs all

the important things or just in general that KOC wants to take his time with JJ McCarthy because he Believed so strongly in quarterback development or all of it could be absolutely nothing and they could just want to make sure publicly that they are respectful of Sam Darnold because look, the guy got you 14 wins. You're supposed to be a seven-win football team and he got you double even though it ended badly. I mean, you have to look at that and say much respect, man. So I, I know. Real playbook for letting 14 win quarterbacks walk.

I know, right. Kevin Seifert tweeted the other day, the only other example ever of a 30 touchdown quarterback leaving was Jamis Winston, and he threw 30 interceptions to go along with it. So Manny, when it comes to that, like pretend that you're Sam Darnal, like pretend you're good at sports and you can throw a ball really hard and you've achieved things in your life. And I'm just kidding.

You're on this show. So, but pretend I know it was unnecessary. Only one of us play college baseball, right? Oh well, look, you could throw. You guys could throw your shots at me if you want, but just tell me Manny. If you were in Sam Darnold shoes, what would you be thinking about coming back to Minnesota on a tenuous deal that

you know sets you up potentially to be good again or risking going to another franchise where you're not sure or risking going to another franchise where you're not sure what's going to happen? Yeah it's interesting because I think if I'm Sam I'm I'm looking to to just play in the best situation possible where I can have the most success because it seems to me like no matter if I'm Sam no matter where I go I'm going to get a pretty good chunk of change even if I return to the Vikings. Like, I'm not going to return to the Vikings for another, like, another one year, $10 million contract.

Like, that's not going to happen. That's just not realistic, especially after the season that I just had. So I'm looking at trying to find the best situation possible where I'm going to have as much success as possible and I don't have to worry about getting benched. If I go back to Minnesota, there's that possibility, even if I'm named the starter week one, if I win the competition in camp

and I'm starting week one, 2025, there's a possibility if things don't go as well as they should. If some of the way last season ended carries over into this season, I'm going to get benched and I'm going to be holding the clipboard for JJ McCarthy. Do I really want that or do I want to go into a situation where my job is a little bit more secure? You know, a place like Pittsburgh maybe, and that's a team that's trying to win still and

try and compete where they've got a pretty good pretty good team in place. So I'm if I'm Sam I'm looking at the best possible situation where I can step in have success because I'm going to get a good a good payday regardless a decent payday regardless so I just want to go to the best place that fits fits my skill set and will allow me to be as good as, uh, as good as possible. And this is the hard thing when it comes to if the Vikings actually want Sam Darnold back and pitching their case to Sam Darnold, then I wrote the mock negotiation and a major part of the negotiation is thank you, is not the dollar figures really at all.

It's almost entirely about Sam Darnold asking questions that Manny just asked of, okay, I know you guys like me and you can get a lot of cash in my pocket. And I actually don't ever get the sense from Sam Darnold that he views himself as a business like Kirk Cousins did. That's no disrespect, because I respect the heck out of the Kirk Cousins business. I mean, wow, but that's not Sam Darnold.

I truly don't believe that. And the backgrounds are different. Kirk Cousins felt disrespected by his franchises and always felt like he was underpaid and underappreciated. And the money was supposed to make up the difference. It didn't, but he thought it would. With Sam Darnold, there's a lot of trauma in his past of playing for bad football teams.

And he knows how much that can affect your reputation. I mean, think about if he was drafted to the Minnesota Vikings and KOC in this current situation, how his career would have been different. I think we have definitive proof that he would have become a really good quarterback much faster than he did. Instead, he went through hell

and had to be a backup and everything else. You might be a lot more hesitant to say, you know what, Tennessee, sure, why not? That is a goofy ownership. It's a terrible stadium. They fired GMs like crazy. That head coach, they go seven and 10. He's probably fired.

I mean, I, do you really want that for the money versus Kirk said one time that, and I learned a lot about football and business from Kirk. And I'm not saying that like sarcastically, I mean, cause he talked so much and he always had a lot of great insight and he was talking about how every year it's a year to year thing in the NFL, no matter what your contra. And he proved it this year in Atlanta. And so if you're Darnold and you subscribe to that every year is year to year, the best place for him to be in the entire NFL next year is with

the Minnesota Vikings, but Murph, how did you kind of, I tried to lay it all out in that article, all the different thoughts that he might have, how did you kind of? I tried to lay it all out in that article. All the different thoughts that he might have. How did you kind of process all that? Yeah, well, you know, you can also look like you can add the final two games where he was a bit of a deer in the headlights. I mean, if you want to talk about a portrait right there that that's going to resonate throughout the league.

Sorry if that was a cheap shot, but no, I I I feel like yes, he with PERS coordinator, Per O'Connell being in his ear, Justin Jefferson, you know, they're going to spend on the defense. They may invest in the guards as the point you made, you know, a little more protection. And maybe he's not, you know, roadkill those last two weeks as well, which can do a lot to disrupt any kind of an offense. So I feel like with him though, he can be very picky. He does have that trauma in the past, as you mentioned. So, you know, the year in San Francisco, I think taught him what continuity and a strong organization and a

foundation can be. He has that with O'Connell. So he's going to just be under a lot of pressure though, from the NFLPA. He's correct me if I'm wrong, he's going to be setting the quarterback market. So if he takes something less than market value, that's, you know, could be problematic. I don't know if they make it up in term, but it just feels like, you know, he's, he's just got a lot of incentive not to come back here. But the one incentive, as you mentioned, that is really critical to him is continuity, familiarity, trust. I mean, he's going to have to go earn all of that somewhere else again. He already has that here.

Okay. So precedent on this type of player does not see that guy get paid a lot. So what I mean is Baker Mayfield and Gino Smith did the exact same thing as Sam Darnold, where they went to a new location on a one-year contract and they played incredibly well. And then the team brought them back. When you look at those contracts, Gino got three years, 75 mil with escalators. If you know, he performed a certain way and Baker Mayfield got three for, 75 mil with escalators, if he performed a certain way. And Baker Mayfield got three for 100,

and his cap hit, I think last year was 7 million, and the cap hit for Gino Smith in his first year of that deal was 10 million. Those guys, after those big years, we would have thought, oh yeah, someone will go crazy and pay them, but they really didn't. And so I think that might be what Sam Darnold is finding out on the open market, because you always wonder, all right, who sends the group text?

Is it the Vikings? Is it Darnold's agent? Is it both of them? Because if you're on Darnold's agent side, you want to be like, he'll go back. He he loves Minnesota. You might want to add like 10 more million dollars to your offer. And the Vikings might say, yeah, we want them back, but only at a price. And that's how we end up with the insider saying what they're saying. But from the Sam Darnold perspective, Manny, I think that it's possible his agent went to Indianapolis with hopes of hearing that someone was going to give

him $50 million and they did not hear that. And they came back with more like around 30. And Daniel Jeremiah tweeted something of like, he's not gonna get $40 million a year because he's a one year type of success story. And the NFL has just not paid guys a lot, even like Case Keenum. And I know it's different skill wise,

but he got a pretty small middle deal with the Denver Broncos when he left. He didn't get some mega contract for winning 13 games. So then that changes the discussion a little for the Vikings. And this is where I wanna get into whether you guys think it's a good idea or a bad idea. Because Manny, it changes the discussion a little

because we're talking about, well, Sam at $10 million is good, but Sam at $50 million is bad. But what if for 2025 it is $10 million? Is that a good idea? Or should it just be JJ McCarthy? No matter what, give him a courtesy offer and make sure it's not as much as anybody else's.

Well, I think if you're crazy and you can find a way to bring Sam back and that cap hit in 2025 is $10 million. I mean, it was $10 million in 2024. And the Vikings managed to still splurge and free agency and sign Andrew Van Ginkle and sign Jonathan Grenard and bring other guys in as well that were able to contribute to a 14-win team. So if you can find a way to get Sam back on a lower cap hit, and maybe it is like a two- or three-year contract that you can kind of restructure and play around with as you go along, that seems to make some sense. And if you get to camp in

August, and JJ outplays Sam and JJ is going to be the starter. If Sam's cap hits only going to be 10 million, it might be easier to trade him to a team at that point that you know is, you know, And the deadline matters now in the NFL. Yeah, absolutely. And so if you got a team that, you know, much has a situation like the Vikings had in 2016 when Teddy got hurt and they needed to, you know, Rick Speilman wanted to make a quick, get a guy in pretty quickly and he traded for Sam

Bradford, you know, it was easy to do that because Sam Bradford didn't have like this massive 40 million dollars. You know, the economics of the league were different nine years ago, but, you know, Sam didn't have this massively bloated contract that the vikings had to just absorb they were able to to bring him into the fold Uh because it wasn't a super high cap hit so if you have sam at that low of a number It will be easier to trade him if that Situation kind of presents itself and then you might be able to get some value for him If you're at that point, you're ready to move on to JJ.

And that might very much be part of the calculus for a quasi daful Mensa. I mean, if you're playing 3D chess a little bit, then you try to get him to sign and hey, you're going to be QB one, but then, oh, JJ McCarthy outplayed him or they split first team reps and they were totally comfortable with McCarthy and then they trade him away. But Sam Darnold has to know this right? I mean he has to be aware that he could be hoodwinked and sent off to Arizona if Kyler Murray got hurt or Jacksonville if Trevor Lawrence. The thing that I included in my negotiation was

a no trade clause with 10 different teams because two of them would be a few of them like the graveyard teams, the graveyard destinations. Yes. And any team that plays in the Meadowlands would also be included. Yes. I don't even I don't even want to be where a hotel room has the city of New York and their wall art. Like just make sure that I am nowhere near that place and nowhere near Carolina. But I'm sure that he would want to have some control over that. I think that that might be the evening, like the bridge type of point. And they did this for Kirk when they first got here.

KOC and Quacey looked at the draft class in 2022 and went, okay, we're going to have to keep Kirk. There was not a better option there with Kenny Pickett or Malik Willis or whoever else. And they worked out a short-term deal with him, but part of it was, yeah, we know we're not really going all in on you, but you can have control if we want to trade you to team X or Y. It's possible that that could make it a little more reasonable for Sam

Darnold to say, okay, I understand this scenario. I will come back. I will compete with JJ McCarthy and I'll get, you know, whatever at signing, a lot of money at signing if you can. And, uh, I'm okay with the trade, but I need to make sure you're not trading me to a team that is garbage. Yeah, and I think have that honest discussion about McCarthy too, which I know they will. But I mean, it's been sort of vague and opaque out here in the public.

And God, you guys go to Indianapolis, and you've got your Latin dictionaries, and you're trying to translate every syllable. What does it all mean? They lean this way, they lean that way. You got the insiders out there. It's kind of this whatever, but I really do. I just think it's ultimately gonna,

what does Darnold feel like really will give him the best chance to succeed? And I do think that in the very short term, that's here with the personnel. Now, what's the ledger gonna be on the defensive side that the Vikings are gonna be spending? I mean, clearly one has to come for the other. But like, I, that's where they need to invest if they're going to only get a $10 million hit.

But I really believe that they have to have an honest conversation with Arnold that that exact scenario could play out. Are you comfortable with that? As long as we send you to a team that needs a starter in an emergency, a playoff team, like you mentioned, the Bridgewater situation, then he can figure all this out later. That's a lot to ask Darnold to take in. So because all that can all go away with a one in four start, if he looks like a carbon copy, if anybody

knows what that means anymore, a replica of LA and Detroit. And then the howl is going to take long. The thing about this whole navigation, the Vikings have really been on here with this. It's always been assumed it's a rich situation to have these kinds of problems. But it's a butterfly effect, too. There's weird things because there's so much invested in both.

And you're hedging it at a certain point, you know, it's got to be one or the other. And the crowd, the media, the fans, the media, you don't know what's, what's it going to be like in October when you're two and five, not saying they will be, but we know what that's like. So anyway, the butterfly effect. Don't, don't discount that. Well, this is another part we've sort of focused on the worst case scenario for Sam Darold.

If he were to sign and then struggle or even just get outplayed, then they would be looking to trade him. And then that whole thing could happen. But Manny, give me a percentage chance on this. Let's just say follow with me here. Let's just say the Vikings grab themselves, two of the top offensive linemen and even draft one for good measure. And they've solved that problem. And they go out and draft Quinchon Judkins, who is now my favorite guy in the draft

after watching the combine, looking a little more into his game. He's a beast. Okay. Got that. You bring back Aaron Jones and they go in and they draft Derek Harman. They draft somebody else on the defensive side because they traded down and they sign a defensive tackle, DJ Reed at corner and Javon Holland at safety. And now we're talking about a defense that looks stronger as a roster than it did last year as a complete roster, an offensive line that looks better. Darasaw is back. Hockinson has a whole off season second year in the offense. Like what are the chances Sam Darnold is better?

Now I know we have to adjust 14 wins for the schedule and the AFC South gave them free wins all over the place, including the Jaguars, who definitely should have beat them that day. The schedule is going to be brutal. Right, right. But does that, did what I just described, what is the chances that the Vikings are right neck and neck with the other teams in the NFC with Sam Darnold?

If all of that plays out, I think there's a pretty good chance, but you're looking for a percentage. I would say if all that plays out, they sign all those guys, they bring Sam back, schedule and play and everything. I would say I'd give it about 45 to 50% that they can play with other teams in the NFC. The reason why that the reason why it's not higher is because I think we would have to account for injuries as well. And you know, and the Vikings on the defensive side stayed pretty healthy.

I know Blake Cashman missed some games, but for the most part on the defensive side, they stayed pretty healthy and they were a pretty good unit. And I don't know if you can really count on that on a year by year basis. Injuries are just there. There's certain time, you know, they affect so many things. And they're so random. I mean, it you just never, you can never really account for somebody getting injured because I mean, just on the offensive side, they hit the Vikings didn't losing to one of the best left tackles in football and having to trade for Cam Robinson. You just never think about that.

So injuries would have to play a role in that. And so I'd give it about 45, 50 percent odds that they can hang with everybody else in the NFC if everything that you laid out plays out. Let me ask you the same question, Murph, but slightly different. OK, what we talked endlessly about the over under last year, six and a half games and how they blasted that out of the water. But what would it be if they bring back Donald and they make the moves that I just described?

What would Vegas set their over under it? Just spitballing here, maybe 10.5 because what I need to know is you mentioned. I mean, they're a good team, but what you mentioned is can they, you know, race and run with the NFC elite and. I gotta see that and we're going to see that right? Cause they're getting Philadelphia. They're getting Baltimore. I mean Detroit twice again.

Green Bay is going to be good. Maybe Chicago finally is if they get real in there. I mean Detroit twice again. Green Bay is gonna be good, maybe Chicago finally is, they get real in there, I mean, and we know all the other- Joe Burrow, they're gonna play- Yeah, they got this other scheduling matchup. Right, I mean, you're playing a 14 win schedule now, so, you know, that's okay, let me see what they can do.

Can they ever go into Philly and win, or is Philly coming here? I think that Philly. Philly's coming here. I need to go on a tangent, but it just. Coming here, yeah. I wanna see them going to Philadelphia and win. I don't care if it's in September,

just go in and house them. Because it's just, you know, they just, they don't always prove that even during the regular season all the time. So before I'm gonna go back to 12, 13, 14 wins, which with all those additions should be on the table. I'm going to have you a little bit because I really want to see what they do in October, November in these marquee matchups. So, okay, so here's that answer on March 6.

So here, well, here's the, but here's the trade off. Okay. Put it here's the trade off and here's the answer fundamentally that they really have to that they really have to come to a conclusion on a whether bringing back Darnold Let's say you're going into this season with ten and a half wins as you're over under and we know Vegas is not always perfect But let's that just sets an expectation right and let's just say that your Super Bowl odds Let me eyeball it real quick. Who would have better Super Bowl odds? Certainly Philadelphia, Detroit, Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, and I'm guessing Washington, possibly the Rams because they beat them in the playoffs. And I think that's it. Right. So what did I come up with? Maybe seven teams. So let's say you have the eighth highest Super Bowl

odds. Is it worth it to go into a season to roll the dice on signing Darnold back to have an over under of 10 and a half and Super Bowl odds that rank in the top 10, but not at the actual top, is it worth that? Or should you just take behind what's door number two Manny? Razor sharp questioning there. That's why I host one of the elite podcasts in the twin cities market. That you do. But you got it.

Wow. Yeah, that's a tough one. I. Might be worth it. I think it might be worth it. This league is- I think it's always worth it, man. With this franchise, you have to. Somebody's gotta kill a great white whale and win one, right? You gotta, sorry.

This league is funny too, man. I mean, sometimes we just see random things happen that we just do not expect. I mean, sometimes we just see random things happen that we just do not expect. I mean, this past year, seeing Kansas City in Philadelphia in the Superbowl is probably what a lot of people, you know, at least guessed or predicted that we would see or some combination of that, you know, because of the Mahomes factor

and how strong a roster the Eagles had. But, you know, other times we see a team like the Cincinnati Bengals with Joe Burrow just playing great, get to the Super Bowl and overcome some deficiencies on the roster, the offensive line not being very good that year for them and the defense kind of being a little suspect. And once in a while, you get a Jake DeLome that pops up out of nowhere. We talked about him last time, Jake DeLome taking the Carolina Panthers to the Super Bowl. So I think with this league being as random as it is, I

think with the position that the Vikings are in right now, I think it might be worth the risk to just go for that. You think it's worth it, Murph? I think they have the way to spin it and that it can be because with McCarthy, you know we've said this before like he stopped on August 5th or whatever right, his development essentially you know so he still has to kind of, you can you can pit it as a development year for him. Darnold takes the reins, we're running it back, we've invested all this. We believe there's momentum off 14 wins and Pro Bowl performance,

and he's got better protection. We've got more defensive weapons. We've invested heavily where our needs are if Darnold's willing to play ball. Again, that's a lot is his call too. So what does he view as his most valuable place? The biggest Brinks truck, you know, the best opportunity to win now, the best familiarity, you know, he's got a lot that he can control as well. But I think, yeah, with this franchise, I just don't know if you can keep sort of always not quite figuring out what to do with this position. Just commit and, you know, if McCarthy, if you have an honest conversation and McCarthy understands that this is mostly going to be his development year, and Dardell needs to know that, you know, a one and four start is going to could

change the dynamic in a hurry. It's 2025. I mean, there's no under the radar with, you know, a one in four start is going to could change the dynamic in a hurry. It's 20, 25. I mean, there's no under the radar with, you know, quarterback drum. And this one's really set up for a lot if they bring them both back. Well, what I thought was interesting is that Manny used the word risk, but I mean, really I, it's not how risky is it? Like how risky is it to bring back to Arnold? And that really depends on what the contract is set up for. Because if so I've I've pitched this three year,

100 million dollar contract based on Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield. And both of them I've mentioned have low cap. It's in the first year. But that doesn't mean it's perfectly tradable. That could mean that if you do have to trade it, that you end up with some dead cap money that you're going to have to work around and they can, and they can move that down the road. And they worked around it last year, but it's not ideal. That's not what you want.

Maybe you have to deal with it for one year and then it's off the books in the second year, the way they set it up, but you can't have everything you want in these contracts. If you want the 2025 number low, that means that the trade number in 2026 or 2025 might be difficult to work around. You can't just go, I'll just, uh, Abra Kadabra and it's exactly how I want it. Like you have to, you have to have some good intake, give and take there with where the bonus

money goes and do you add void years to make it more reasonable and all those types of things there could be trade-off down the road in terms of cap now is it going to be destroying them no probably not but there is a little bit of that i don't think there's any risk in having jj mccarthy develop for another year i i think we've seen pretty clearly that when jordan love came off the bench after a couple years he's in the playoffs in his first year patrick develop for another year. I think we've seen pretty clearly that when Jordan Love came off the bench after a couple years, he's in the playoffs in his first year. Patrick Mahomes is in the AFC championship and has a chance to beat the New England Patriots in the first year coming off the bench a number of times through history. Those aren't the only two

ones where yeah, that development quarterback sat and then came in and was good. And then off we go. So that could be the case for 2026. Let's use the same sort of metric way of looking at it with JJ McCarthy. If he starts at 2025, where do they set the Vegas odds? I mean, I would probably start with like eight and a half because there would just be so much uncertainty there. And I find it now. The real question is not where it's going to be next year. It's where it's going to be in 2026. Because I think we all understand that a quarterback in his first year winning the Superbowl isn't all that likely

winning the 12, 13 games. There's going to be some development curve since he didn't play at all last year or even practice. But if you're willing to use that year to figure out exactly what you have with hopes that you go into 2026 with an 11 and a half or a 12 and a half number, probably 11 and a half. You don't see a lot of 12 and a halfs, but if that was gonna be the case, then I think you would say, play McCarthy then

and we'll see what you have. And then you'll know for sure where you are and how much you need around him by 2026. Whereas if you are developing behind the scenes, there still will be some uncertainty of what he's going to be, what he needs stylistically. Is he going to know the offense in the same way that he's actually playing with it? Like I think that you would take just for example,

you would take a nine win season from McCarthy over an 11 win season for Sam Darnold I think I think that's the case knowing that if he gets to nine that the future looks really bright but that's I mean that might be the difference between missing and making the playoffs for. Yeah, well, the other thing is, or is it Manny or me? I said, so you're yeah, I mean, the other thing is to like. What are you investing in on the defense? Are you selling this as a 14 win team that's stepping on the gas to free agents or to everybody else that your public, you know, are you are you going to say,

let's lower the expectations. We're going to hand it to McCarthy, you know, eight or nine wins. Ride it out with us in 2026 is going to be amazing. We're going to have confetti. OK. Is anybody going to be really brutally honest about that, though? And it's like, how do you sell that in a locker room? And, you know, Darnold may be. And by the way, quasi is looking for an extension, right?

So like, you know, what's all what are what's everything at play here to give them the best chance to kind of run it back with momentum, cap space, and investment, and you know, maybe Darnold doesn't drag that anchor of weeks 18 and 19 with them into 2025, but you don't know that either. So there's a, that's a little roll of the dice. Bringing Donald back doesn't necessarily say, hey, this is a better playoff team chance. That is a team that can make the playoffs only because of Donald. But I just wonder where, you know, where the honest conversations are going to be about that.

What do you think about that, Manny? If it's 10 and a half versus eight and a half. Are you OK with that trade off? Yeah, because it's well, it's fascinating because the, you know, to Merv's point, I mean, this is a team that, you know, they've got flexibility with cap space this offseason, but they also have some veteran guys who've been in the league for a few years now and got a taste of a 14 win season that ended abruptly,

that obviously did not end the way that they wanted it. And so you also have to sort of play into, okay, well, how are these veteran guys, how is a guy like Jonathan Granard going to feel if we decide to just roll with JJ McCarthy and we go nine and eight and don't make the playoffs? Like how is he, how is a veteran like him or a guy like Andrew van Ginkle going to feel about that? You know, if you bring Cam Bynum back, Cam's been in the league for a few years now, you

bring him back on a nice contract. He's kind of a veteran, kind of a leader type of guy in that locker room now too. How's he gonna feel if that season, if the season kind of regresses back to sort of a 500-ish team because you decided to go with the young guy instead when you could have brought Sam back

and gone like 12 and 5 and made the playoffs and possibly have won a game or gone a deeper run. So that's kind of the risk that the Vikings are going to have to sort of talk about and discuss here and figure out, okay, what is this team going to realistically look like if we do decide to go with JJ in 2025? He's ready to go. He shows us that he's ready to start and take on this role as the leader of this offense. But if we only go 10 and seven or nine and eight and we don't make the playoffs, how is this going to affect everything else that we do

going forward? Because it goes back to I think to that butterfly effect that we were talking about earlier. And it's all about the JJs, right? Like, oh, by the way, what does Jefferson think if he doesn't connect with McCarthy and camp and Darnold's there and he does a little bit or, you know, Darnold struggles and is two and four and he's got to inherit McCarthy now as the guy. You know, these that's what we're talking about is like, well, those, if you put yourself in a position where that could happen, what what are your strategies for kind of navigating that?

That's a lot to deal with, because you've got two megas on the line, you know, and you've got whatever deal you're gonna make, it's gonna force something in the middle of the season, there's gonna be a lot of drama about that, you know, whenever that deadline is, about November 1st or so. So yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, you know how these things, you know, best laid plans can blow up on when your franchise quarterback

goes back in the pocket and just collapses, you know? I mean, I'm just saying that that's, it's a weird, you're like you said, Manny, this is a weird league, there. It's a tough league and it's an unpredictable league and it's a relentless league, right? So it just kind of, it's, you know, forces teams because you just can't, you have to account for injuries, but you can never really brace for any one of them because you can't back up every position. Because what happens if they go nine and eight and JJ McCarthy plays really well?

That's great. It's, it's, you's, you know, should feel like that, right? You should be excited about that. But it's also like, all right, but you went 14 and three and made the playoffs last year and then you go nine and eight. It's, it's really going to be, and it might sort of play into just how everything kind of looks as well, but if they, if that does play out where they go nine and eight, McCarthy plays really well, but they don't make the playoffs. Now you're talking four years of Kevin O'Connell

and you've made the playoffs only twice and you still haven't won a playoff game yet. So it's all going to be like the perception is going to play into all of that as well. It's going to be fascinating to watch. Well, and this is something that I've thought a lot about because I think you can put yourself in O'Connell's shoes in two different ways. You can look at it as he's got his contract extension, which means that, hey, like if he's got to take a three year type of outlook with J.J. McCarthy going forward, then take a three year outlook.

And this year is not a special free agent class, maybe next year's will be. And you'll finally have more draft picks next year for the first time. And you can add to that and you can look at it as, all right, 2026, 2027, we're talking about a real window around JJ McCarthy where you're Jefferson, Derrisaw, Granard, Cashman,

all these guys are in their primes and you can just keep swinging and swinging and swinging year after year. And as you mentioned, Manny, you hope that one of those years for like San Francisco last year or for Philadelphia, they stay healthy and all your stars are stars and off you go. That's what you're looking for. Or maybe they become the Eagles defense and just win it

that way too. Behind, you know, take the edge off. Well, that's what you're trying to do. What you're looking for. Or maybe they become the Eagles defense and just win it that way too. Behind my car, you know, take the edge off. Well that's what you're trying to do. What you're trying to do is this is long been something that I've leaned on, which is what you want is the talking heads on TV to debate whether your quarterback is actually good or not. If he's unproven and he's having a great year, that means you got a great team, right? Oh, he's just the product of this guy and that great. That means you got an awesome roster.

Perfect. So that's what you're looking for. You're looking for that 49ers, 2023 or Eagles, 2024 roster. And the way to get there, if you do not have draft capital, as we all know, is by loading up through free agency and they'll have to hit on some draft picks going forward. So that's a good plan. Like, I don't think anyone thinks that's how he rose. What's his favorite drink, you know? Yeah, right.

So, but if stay with me here on KOC on KOC though, could he also look at it as I just won coach of the year and everyone's calling me a genius. And what you said, Manny is very relevant. I want to take another swing at that because let's be honest, he got run out of the building by his guy, McVeigh. McVeigh out coached him. There is no question about it. There is no question about it.

I think he would say that. That twice that he got right. He got owned by his former guy who is a genius and he wants to take another run at that and with some guards and another run at that. And with some guards and with Darasa, and you could see the coach mentality of being like, yeah, watch back that tape. And if we had only done this, if we had only added that then. And I know that there's, you know, one of the.

You know, we chase yesterday's losses, though, you know. Exactly. But do coaches think that do NFL coaches think that? Because I remember one particular NFL. Ask them one particular NFL. Exactly. But do coaches think that do NFL coaches think that because I remember one particular NFL, one particular NFL coach. Yeah. We've tried to ask it. I'm left, right. And center. Every person asks them. But I remember one particular team that thought if we get her cousins, then right. So I don't, I don't think it's the exact same logic because Darnold showed a higher ceiling than that talent wise that there is a good case

for they weren't that strong last year as a roster and still got that many wins. Nobody thought they were going to be there. There's a better argument for this team going like this. That's ascending. I have a smaller window of camera this way, uh, as opposed to where the 17 team was just unlikely to continue to do what it did. And then cousins turned out to be a bad fit with Zimmer and et cetera. We know all that history.

This is KOC and Darnold who just did it last year together, not bringing in somebody new and asking them to do something different. So if you're KOC, do you just wanna get onto the future? You know you've got your window, develop your guy, you love him, you've seen him around the building, or are you in the back of your mind thinking, I could get that McVeigh?

Yeah, I don't know if he's gonna, you know, stay wedded to Darnold just to get at McVeigh. I mean, but I just feel like he, O'Connell will believe he can develop and win with any quarterback, as you said, you know, he'll do it on the way to the park, through the parking lot to his car. But if he's got more, a little bit more leverage because of the extension and also, you know, he's known to be the guy that gets quarterbacks elevated and in a good place. But we just don't know so much about McCarthy or his relationship with McCarthy,

because it just wasn't really dealt with last season. I mean, we didn't have McCarthy on the field. We didn't, you know, you didn't have that sense of how's the development going. I mean, maybe there's some garbage time in there. Maybe there's a few, you know, plays you can work in the, in the scheme to get him out there and get him some reps. That just didn't happen. So it's just, it's just hard because you just don't have that blueprint

or you don't have that backstory. And again, he didn't take that a ton of snaps in Michigan compared to his, his brethren in the first round. So who all, all by the way, all mostly have NFL experience now that he doesn't. So, you know, how do you, how do you hedge with that? That's just what's fascinating. What do you think KOC wants, Manny? I think,

I do think there's a part of him that, I think he's, how do I word this? I think he's torn. I think he's a little bit torn because I think he's, I, how do I word this? I think he's torn. I think he's a little bit torn because I think he saw, you know, what's it, 18 games of Sam Darnold, 17 regular season and then the playoff game. I think he saw 18 games of Sam Darnold and he said,

look at what this guy, look at what this guy did. We won 14 games and look at how well he played. I know the last two games weren't good, but look at how well this guy played. And if we do bring him back like we were talking earlier for bringing back. It's another year. You know with this system with this scheme and if we just bring in a couple of guys get a couple of guards at a couple other guys on defense. You know, we can we can do this again. But I also think he's torn because he's got this 22, 23 year old quarterback who has a lot of physical tools of his own, who he loves, who if you watch JJ McCarthy in interviews,

everything about the way he talks just oozes Kevin O'Connell. Like just everything. He sounds like a 22 year old, 23 year old Kevin O'Connell. It's amazing. So I think KLC is also looking at that as well and just saying like this is the guy that I handpicked, that I drafted, and this is this is this piece of clay that I can really mold into exactly what I want him to be. Um, and he's a guy that I can envision being my starting quarterback for 10, 12 years, and we win a lot of games and all of this. So I think he's, but only nine next year.

Are you okay with that? Right. Well, that's, that's just it. And I think that's part of the reason why he might be torn is that there's, there's pros, there's like pros and cons to both of these guys. And I think he's, he's, he might just be in a mindset where he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to have both guys back and,

and be able to do whatever he can with both and sort of have both, you know, both feet on in both. I don't, I don't know what kind of analogy to use here, but you guys get what I'm saying. Like there's, there's, there's a way where he feels like he wants to sort of play with both guys and try to make it work with both guys. It's, it's, um, it's really interesting. I think that however it played out, Kevin O'Connell is comfortable with, which is if he's going to go to JJ McCarthy, then certainly it's a little more.

Risky because he doesn't know what he's going to be dealing with exactly. I mean, he knows from camp and he knows what his mind is like, and he knows what kind of kid he is, but until the guy plays, he doesn't play. One of the things that I think is really interesting about this discussion though, because I don't have the answer. I've listened to KOC talk for, I don't know, hundreds of hours at this point for all the different press conferences and everything else. And I honestly think that he is a very, very good poker player at making sure that he double talks his way around everything, that he never

disrespects anybody, and that he does not tell you exactly what's going to happen when. But I think that the answer probably is the most obvious one, which is if it makes financial sense to bring back Sam Darnold, he knows that they can compete very realistically and they already have with Sam Darnold. And if Sam Darnold goes in place for the Titans, well, that's fine because I've seen what JJ McCarthy can do. One of them just takes more work for KOC than the other,

which is now I've got to teach another person how to play quarterback after I just did that last year. And okay, well, I guess I'm not getting a whole lot of sleep or anything like that. That's probably the big difference. And the expectation for your wins, it does change when you have a brand new quarterback and there will be a lot more

times where he is teaching throughout the year as opposed to coaching throughout the year. Last year there was a lot of teaching Sam Darnold how to play quarterback for a good football team and I'm sure that there's a part of him that thinks, you know, when we ran it back year two Kirk actually played better and there has to be that part right right, that he thinks, and if I could just like give him the offense and he already has it and knows how to play, that'd be nice.

But he's not afraid of going to J.J. McCarthy. That's probably the answer with KOC. But let me ask you guys one one more question. And you know that I could talk about this for hundreds of hours. But, you know, I've got you guys for an hour here. So this is an important part of this. Thanks. I have never in my life. Ever seen a fan base anywhere, any sport

so against the person that had as much success as Sam Darn. You can't give me an example. You truly can't. Maybe maybe it reminds me a little bit of like Joe Mauer, how the fan base, the twins fans just disdain. Yeah, that took place over a lot of years, though. It might be apples and oranges, but I, you know, bilateral leg weakness, you know, it's not different because he was a hall of fame talent for so long

and everything else. And I think, you know, anyone who gets paid in Minnesota is the worst person of all time and the less they're raising multiple championships. We know how that goes. But when it comes to Darnold, I mean, think just think about like even Case Keenum there, I think it was split 50 50 with Case Keenum when he left, that a lot of people fell in love with Keenum, wanted him to come back, wanted to play the exact same way.

And now with this, I think it's 95, five, that there is almost nobody who wants to run it back. Do you think that that is the right way to feel from a fan perspective? Manny, you can. I'm not going to tell fans how they should. Well, OK, OK. But man, Manny, that's fan base, Manny is much more in the vein of a Vikings fan. Okay. This is why it's a great perspective.

I'm the soulless journalist. Manny thinks about with a little bit of heart. I didn't grow up here. So, you know, right. So this is, this is a directed at Manny. Is that the right way to feel because I, like you said, Murphph, I'm not the type to sit here and tell you how to feel. I'm just more in awe of it. I would have thought that there would have been a split,

a schism, fans yelling at each other. Fans yelled at each other for how many years over Kirk Cousins, where you had half the fan base that loved Kirk. I think they still are. Well, sure, probably. No one's gonna have the last word. Half the fan base that loved Kirk. They still are. Well, sure. Probably no one's going to have the last word. Half the fan base was obsessed with Kirk and thought he was the best quarterback

to ever walk the earth and half the fan base thought he was the worst player of all time. And that's what I would have expected over time. Both sides, both sides were drunk. You know, they could not understand the rationale for either side to feel that way. All right. Speaking of drunk Murph, let Manny answer my question about. I'm just I'm just kidding. But what what what do you what do you make of the fan reaction to this?

I think it's a little strange. And I say this as a Viking fan myself. I mean, I'm 40 years old and I've this is the only NFL team I've ever really cheered for with with my heart, you know, but it is a little it is a little strange, but it's also not, it's not super surprising because we've seen this kind of thing before. I remember in 2002 when Dante Culpepper got benched in a game against the New York Giants and Todd Bauman came into the game. And I remember driving home after the game, the Giants won the game. It was the first game Brian McKinney ever played.

He ended his hold. I was like week nine or something. And I remember riding in the car on the way home. And we were in the car on the way home and Vikings fan line was on, on KFAN was on and they were taking calls and there were people that were actually calling in and saying, yeah, the Vikings need to go with Todd Bauman now the rest of the way.

Like Todd Bauman should be the starting quarterback of the team. Now, of course, Dante ended up stills, you know, I mean, Mike Tyson was not benching Dante Culpepper, it wasn't happening, but like there were fans that were calling in because Bauman came in for a half and played pretty well and got the Vikings back into the game. There were people like legitimately thinking that Todd Bowman should have been the starting quarterback of the Minnesota

Vikings going forward. So I think it's a little bit strange sort of this vitriol that's been thrown at Sam Darnold based off of really just two football games. Now is the worst two games, the worst time of the year to play as badly as Sam did. But just the amount of vitriol that's been kind of thrown at Sam, despite having a terrific overall season and leading this team to 14 wins is just a little bit strange. But considering things that I've seen in the past, I'm not terribly surprised by it. I agree with that. When I was growing up, there were people in Buffalo who wanted Frank

Reich to start over Jim Kelly because Kelly couldn't win him the big game in the Superbowl and it was like, you know, that he keeps getting them to the Superbowl, right? So there's always going to be that, but normally, right. Winning 14 games in a season. I just. Hey, he had to come back. So that was the thing. But but there's there's always going to be Todd Bowman guy.

But it but these people aren't Todd Bowman guy. There's I mean, it is 90 to 90 for 5%. I think there's a couple of things for it. I think that they have seen good seasons go wrong at the end so many times that any time it happens, you want to throw everybody out no matter what. Colateral damage. You're mad at everybody. Right. That didn't work. I mean, last year there were people who wanted to trade

Justin Jefferson and part of the rationale was what does he want? And it was like, OK, well, you know,, there's always that like lashing out type of thing and having what's behind door number two. I did think of the family guy thing, like wonder what's in box number two, that you can have a boat or box number two, it could be anything, it could be a boat. It's like, it could be a top 10 quarterback

if JJ McCarthy plays, even though McDonald was last year. So, uh, there's also been an invention of what JJ McCarthy is. And I have reported, right. He's been out of field since August 5th. Right. I've reported, I have reported repeatedly that what Kevin O'Connell said about the franchise quarterback thing is absolutely factual of how the organization views him. He is wowed everybody, but that is not playing 14 games and winning them. Right.

It's the, they have, there's a lot of, and I see in the comments every night, McCarthy's a clutch. He would have never lost those games. I'm like, I guarantee you he would have lost at least the Rams game because my home's lost the Rams game. But there has been an invention now of what JJ McCarthy is going to be that has sort of already expanded and blown up to the point where it's way better than what Sam Darnold is. And that is just kind of how the imagination flutters off

when your team has no Super Bowls and you just disappointed everybody again. I think that is a huge, huge part of that. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, fatalism is bone deep with this fan base, we know that. But you know, the thing is with just, it's like, if you want to do, you know, if you want to hand the keys over, you know, the thing, I get the vitriol because it's a very difficult thing to look that bad

consecutive weeks when the stakes were highest. I mean, we're talking top seed, we're talking playoff game, you know, it just, it does linger a bit, but you're also saying, but I have the, it's possible McCarthy can be a great quarterback prospect who may lead the Vikings to the playoffs, maybe, but more likely not in his first year in the league. But if that's what you're selling, then I just hope everybody's on board with that. You need those honest conversations, I think, a little bit. Because you're saying what Donald did just doesn't count. I mean, I just don't, you know, you can't say McCarthy has more NFL street cred than Sam Darnold right now.

So. I really think that it's anybody who didn't just win them. The Superbowl needs to go and the next person up will give them a better chance. And you might actually be right. You might be right. There might be a ceiling on Sam Darnold where it could only go so far. Now, I think we saw a lot of moments that didn't look like there was a ceiling last year. And I also think that the most traumatizing thing is always the one you remember most. And I feel like the

Minnesota sports fan just in general has reached a point of so much frustration with every single sports team doing the same thing. The Wolves trade away cat and they now are mid and they get to the Western Conference final. We all think they should beat the Mavs. They fall apart and now it's well now they're doing everything wrong. Right. And how dare you get away, get rid of cat.

But when cat was here, they didn't win the playoffs, everyone wanted cat gone. And it's just like, this is how everything works. Everything works here. Joe Maurer, as soon as he wasn't the MVP and hitting his many home runs, get him out of here. He's terrible. He can't win anything. I was shocked when I moved here. And I found out that the fan base couldn't stand Joe Maurer. I was like, Are you guys insane? But I was like, that's what it was.

Well, you didn't win us a championship. Get out. We'll try somebody new. And I think that it becomes to the point with this situation where it's gone past rationality for the 2025 season specifically. But I think the big picture is McCarthy is the better longterm answer because of that contract. If you signed Arnold, eventually it will have to be expensive. And eventually it has its limitations. And I don't think he's good enough to Josh Allen, that thing, and be in the NFC championship two years from now on an expensive deal for this year.

Everyone should be comfortable with the idea of McCarthy developing. And I think it's just the frustration of having won one that is pushing this, like, I think it's irrational to hate the idea of him coming back for next year because of all the arguments we've made over and over. But it just pushes this desperation to actually win one. And McCarthy represents that light at the end of the tunnel. That's the way he's the guy, he's the savior,

he's gonna do it, and that might be the case. None of us really know where it's gonna go from here, but I'm not criticizing the fans on this. I'm observing and I'm fascinated because I remember Ryan Fitzpatrick and Buffalo had a good half a season, and they gave him a contract extension and everybody loved him, and it was like, what?

So I've just never seen something work this way. And I don't think you could find a good example of it in history where everybody wanted a quarterback out after having so much success. So that, I mean, that's another thing that they have to weigh. Last thing from you guys, and then people watching, if you want to throw questions, non-quarterback questions. Last night guys, what happened to me? I was answering, I said, all right, we're done with the quarterback discussion. I'll answer any non-quarterback

questions. We got John Cena being discussed. We had guitars. We had, and it could be anything, free agents, NFL stuff. So I'm happy to spend another half hour or so answering questions. So throw them in there. And then my power went out just because of the storm. So I'm in the middle of like breaking down like, yeah, I was really shocked that John Cena, but he was looking and then the rock went like this and then just, just, you know, so, uh, feel free and Murph has no idea what I'm talking about, but, uh, feel free to, to throw in non, uh, quarterback questions into the chat. I need your predictions. Murph first. What do you think happens? but feel free to throw in non quarterback questions

into the chat. I need your predictions. Murph first, what do you think happens with this quarterback situation? I really just don't know until I know what Darnold wants because he's got so much control in this and he hasn't really said much in it. So I think there's a pathway for him to come back

to the Vikings that's financially beneficial to the Vikings. And I think there's a pathway for him to come back to the Vikings that's financially beneficial to the Vikings. And I'm just not sure that's realistic when you can get a true market value contract away. And there's going to be a lot of pressure on Darnold to do that. But again, say one team ponies up and it just doesn't look like a place you want to succeed and you're starting over with a lot of relationships. I mean, that does matter. to succeed and you're starting over with a lot of relationships, I mean that does matter. And if the Vikings are committed to running back that 14 when, you know, sort of the skeleton and the bones of that roster and then fill in the pieces defensively and invest in that, then, you know, you can sell that that Darnold's the answer to. So it's just a fascinating choice that they've put themselves in and I just love that there's so many different elements that could dictate

how it's all going to play out. That sounds like a cop out. Manny. I agree with everything Murph said. I will say that my gut tells me that Sam is going to be playing elsewhere in 2025 and that they're going to go with JJ McCarthy. That's what my gut's telling me. Murph, I was- All right, I won't cop out.

I'll agree. You know, it's easy to agree with Manny, but I do think that that's the most realistic outcome. It really is. I would lean that way too. See, this is why we're not one of those talking head shows that they put on TV because Murph would have screamed. He's a goner. He's out of here.

He's the worst quarterback ever. And I don't have it in me anymore. I'm an old man. I don't think you ever quite had that in you, which is why you guys are on the show because you're not insane and crazy Yelly people on TV. So anyway, well, measure imagine that I know that's a, that's why we do it here. So, um, guys, great stuff. Really appreciate a, uh, emergency round table, if you will, to react to this situation.

And, uh, maybe I was going to say after we get some moves, then I'll call for another round table round table time. Uh, when we have an answer to this and some free agents to talk about. So thank you both so much for your time. I really appreciate you both, even though sometimes I make jokes at your expense. It's all good. Football. All right. Take care guys. Manny Hill, Brian Murphy, the best, glad that they could make some time to join this evening. So let's get some non-quarterback discussion. But first, the sponsors make sure this show

continues to happen and we can have great round tables like that because Manny and Murph demand that I pay them high sums of money to do it. So that means I'm gonna tell you guys about hims. You notice I got the hat going on tonight. If you're a hat guy, well, I've got the hat going on tonight if you're a hat guy Well, I've got something that can help you if you're doing it because you are losing your hair It's called him's if you've lost your hair

You could find it again try him's solutions and you'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who have found their hair again It makes him's that is treating hair loss simple with clinically improving HIMS that is treating hair loss simple with clinically-improven ingredients. Choose from personalized chewable oral spray or serum treatments. Find what works for you. The process is 100% online, very simple, no uncomfortable doctor visits.

Start your free online visit today at hims.com slash purple insider. That is H-I-M-S dot com slash purple insider for your personalized hair treatment options today. Results may vary based on studies of topical oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine

if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply, see website for details and important safety information. And I wanted to shout out to folks who jumped in with a super chat, Modern Moose and NotNow. Thank you guys so much for the support. I really appreciate that. Just can't thank you all enough for the show.

And I joked around about having to pay a rather large bill for plumbing. I came home from the combine to a very wet basement. And so we were able to deal with that, but it's always great to know that you guys are here watching the show, supporting it. And even if you just watch, listen, whatever, sign up for the newsletter, purpleinsider.football. It allows me to keep doing this. So I appreciate you guys very, very much for that.

Let's get into those non-quarterback questions. Start out with Chad here, which move from any team has intrigued you the most intrigued is a good phrasing. I mean the move. So a couple of things happened today. The move for the Bears trading for Joe Tooney I would not say is intriguing because it's obvious they should want offensive lineman to and they're trying to build in the same model as the lions they get back Jonah Jackson. That one might be the most significant is the fact that they have quickly rebuilt their offensive line through a couple trades the most intriguing there things. One didn't actually happen, so it's not a move yet, but it could be, which is DK Metcalf demanding a trade. Wide receivers are on the move at all times. And just a reminder of Justin Jefferson and the way that he approached his contract and the way he approaches every day of his life as a Minnesota Viking. When he gets asked who he wants as the quarterback, he says, I'll make any quarterback better.

And that's a great answer. And when he negotiates a contract, then he signs it in May and he just, the, the, the non-diva wide receiver is a hard thing to find sometimes in the NFL. So DK Metcalf though, but he could really help a football team. Who's he gonna help? Where is he gonna go? How much will that impact everything in the NFL? Because he is one of the 10 to 15 best receivers

when he's fully healthy. And that's intriguing where he could end up because now there's another game changing receiver. So you're gonna go to Buffalo, is he gonna go to Kansas City, like a contending team? Where's he gonna end up? I'm intrigued by that. Another thing is too,

that Max Crosby signed a huge extension today, which I think signifies that Max Crosby was sold on the Raiders direction by their leadership, because otherwise he could have tried to make his way out and he decided to stay for a reason. Is that reason because they are drafting a quarterback and he's been sold on what they're going to do to be a winning team? Is it just that he wanted more money? I have no idea but the Raiders and the Brady Factor and the Pete Carroll Factor have become one

of those teams that we just keep going back to. what are they doing? What are they going to do? I think as far as off season teams, they are maybe the most intriguing in the entire NFL. Up North, does Dallas Turner get on the field for real reps this year? He was on the field for real reps last year. 30 snaps in a game, 25 to 35 snaps in a game is real reps. It's just that it wasn't 60 snaps in a game. And it is a development for him to have to learn a new role that he didn't take on before. And they brought him along slowly with that, which is never anybody's preference on the outside, but I think was probably the right way to go based on how young he was and how different they want him to play from Alabama. to go based on how young he was and how different they want him to play from Alabama. But will he get on the field?

I would imagine that he's going to play a similar role to Patrick Jones for next year and maybe rotate a little with Andrew Van Ginkle because Van Ginkle was on the field all the time last year. But I don't see Patrick Jones returning and I think that those snaps are going to Dallas Turner and then we can decide next year where we feel like Dallas Turner is really at. I think it's not fair to do it this year. I mean, they had a top five defense this year, so it's hard to look at what they did with

Dallas Turner and go, how dare you? What were you thinking? Are you lost out there, Brian Flores? No, I mean, Brian Flores has handled these things really well. So I trust that Brian Flores knows what he's doing with Dallas Turner's role and his development, which required more of a 25 to 30 snap, but I was looking at what they do and not what they say. And they did give him more and more and more and more snaps as the season went along, they did what they were saying.

And then at the combine, I was told, I'm sure you saw some other people write it as well, it was kind of a conversation around the combine, but I was told they feel very good about, uh, Dallas Turner. So I, I tend to believe that that next year he will play a lot that I would expect 600, 700 snaps from him if he's healthy and off you go, and then we'll decide what they have there as he's had a whole off season to prepare and to know that role. So I just, I just don't believe in judging a rookie.

And I did this with Lewis scene and every rookie that the Vikings have had first years, just don't tell you the truth in the NFL. Sometimes if someone's great right away, sure. But then sometimes we anoint somebody in their first year and then they don't carry it on. So we need a bigger sample size with Dallas Turner, but those were real reps at the end of last year. He got a huge interception against Seattle, he got a breathtaking sack against Chicago. We saw a lot of those flashes. I wouldn't be too far down

on that. I just think it was a different circumstance than some other guys Maurice says there's rumors rolling that Murphy is re signing because of his insta My question is it the Vikings better off signing a Santa Samuel jr. Or DJ Reed? Well, they could still do that too Depending on the price tag they can get another corner corner. As far as a Byron Murphy, if Byron Murphy decides to come back, I'm not against it. And I've pointed this out that if you sign them to a $17 million deal, there will be a sticker shock.

But it with the way that the salary cap is going up and of course the structure of contracts, but the way the salary cap is going up, you signed somebody to a 17 or $18 million a year contract today and by the time the cap hit goes up, it's three years from now and it's worth way less on the cap. It's just, it's not bad to overpay your own players. Continuity is good. I think Murphy is a good player and he will get overpaid

because of the interest. That's how free agency works. But I don't think there should be freak out over a very good player who, when he was out in 2023, their defense fell apart. And this year he was healthy the whole season. Nice playmaker. He knows the system extremely well and they need corners pretty badly. You look around.

Yeah. Okay. Asante Samuel Jr. Had one good year and then was hurt. DJ Reed is a really good player, but there's probably gonna be a ton of interest in him as well. I would definitely take DJ Reed. Would I take him over Byron Murphy Jr.?

Probably in a vacuum, but Murphy is a guy who they have a lot of familiarity with, which is worth something. So I've never been down on that. It's really the price tag that I was concerned about before the cap went up. But then if it's gonna keep going up like this, it's not gonna be that big of a worry.

I think what people want from Byron Murphy is to be some one-on-one super freak lockdown, and that's the only person you pay. But that's just not realistic when the NFL plays zone coverage 70% of the time across the league and Murphy is good at that. That's what he does. Daniel says, guard talks as we signed two guards in free agency fries and McCurry.

Yeah, I could see that. I could see that if they had a bunch of draft picks, then they would probably use one of them on a guard, but they only have so many. There's going to be a lot of interest for every guard though, and that's where I don't know how it's going to go. Because the whole league is talking about, well, what are we what are we doing for, you know, to take on those defensive tackles of the Eagles? Like, how are we going to do that? How are we going to take on those things? We need guards. We need more offensive linemen We need to move this tackle the guard in the draft and all that stuff It's a big talk around the NFL every almost every executive and coach was being asked about it at the combine so guys like

Makari and fries they're gonna get a ton of. And whether those guys decide to sign with the Vikings or not, I don't know. But they're, I'm sure looking at every single free agent. If someone tells you that there's, yeah, the Vikings are looking at a guard, like of course they are. They're looking at every guard. They're looking, I'm sure they're looking

at the veteran guys that are a little more proven. Some players like fries or Will Hernandez have been banged up in the past. And that's gonna be a concern to have a Jenkins, same sort of thing. McCarrey with the Ravens might be a good pick just because he hasn't had injuries and has played a lot of different positions.

You can sort of slot them in where you want. I've compared him earlier today on the show to a Joe Berger who developed somewhere else then came to the Vikings and played pretty well. So yeah, I mean, they're going to look at every guard option. I think the best is probably to get one guy who is a veteran and pay him a good amount of money and then draft one. But if you're not drafting one in the first round, then you have to get at least two. You might even want to go and try to get three. Matt says Lockett is getting released.

I don't see him on the Vikings. Yeah, I don't see him. I don't even know if he'll continue to play. Tyler Lockett. No, I don't. I don't either. Is Milton Williams worth 20 plus million depends on who it is, depends on who's paying him. There's contracts that get handed out where we go. Well, that's way too much for that guy. But every team has a different salary cap situation.

If the Vikings are the team you're talking about, is he worth 20 plus million to the Vikings? I don't know about that. And I think he's really good. It's just he doesn't play a ton of snaps and he's playing next to one of the five most dominant players in the league at that position.

He's getting a lot of one on ones. Whoever he goes to has to be sure that they can give him those same type of matchups that he was able to get with the Philadelphia Eagles. I just would hesitate a lot more on him than I would have Osso de Gezua. And also when the Eagles let someone go, knowing that they're paying everybody. Mm hmm. I would have questions if they're letting someone go when they're handing out all the money.

Sean says, do you think Van Ginkle could fill an inside linebacker if Turner gained some weight and could be effective in the run game as well? He seems like he could be a beast anywhere. I agree. He could be a beast anywhere. And he is a guy that you can play inside linebacker if you need to rotate. I just think that you find ways like Brian Flores has found ways and Van Ginkle lines up in a lot of different spots. They want Turner to be able to do the same thing to be able to line up in different places and rush from different spots, cause confusion, beat up, beat guys off the edge sometimes. But also you notice what they did for a lot of the sacks from Van Ginkle. A lot of them were not just him straight beating a guy.

A lot of them were dialed up stunts, twists, things like that, which they might try to do with Dallas Turner next year. I just think you want to get Van Gingel's snap count down a little, down from 900 to maybe 750, just to keep him fresh. He's had some injuries in the past, and Patrick Jones played a heck of a lot of snaps in a pass rushing role on third downs

and then working his way in, because now in the NFL, second down in 10 is a passing down pretty much, so you could put in some lighter people onto the field. Dallas Turner. I think that Flores with his defense is fit perfectly for having multiple guys who can be on the edge, be in the middle, move around that kind of thing. Maurice says, who's going to be the punter?

Oh, you know, Maurice, you add LOL. You don't have to add LOL. It is a serious question. Who's going to be the punter? I got I mean, I think Tress way was a free agent from Washington has to be considered. He's a great punter. He's as good as it comes. And I do think they need to upgrade that position.

I did not feel like Ryan Wright was horrendous or awful or anything, but I think they can upgrade that position and improve just a little bit around the edges there. J.K. Scott from the Chargers is also a free agent. There might be some other guys. So I do think that they might want to do that. Maurice adds, what's the Vikings biggest need other than in the trenches? Corner is clearly it by far and then running back. And I am curious about running back

and how they approach that and how important they see that it is because do they look at it as the offensive line was the reason that they couldn't run as well? Or do they look at it as the running back could not escape to create biggest explosives and they need to find somebody who did? The way you would project it out right now in the draft

would be the Vikings trading down, taking something in the trenches and then looking to a position like running back to add there. I think running back is becoming pretty valuable. They have to be able to make people pay. They have to be able to do that if they are defending with two safeties playing way back playing to shut down Jefferson,

you have to be able to just shove it down their throat and say too bad, you're going to stop the run to not now says I like the mic down lower better. You know, I looked at that yesterday and I listened back and I thought the audio was a little more echoey with me farther away from the mic. So you could tell me how the audio has been tonight on my side, but I thought I got to kind of get closer to it. But I'll take it under advisement. The reason I moved it around was because the camera tends to focus on the microphone for some reason. I've never been able to make it stop doing that. And so it's a little annoying. So I moved it. I moved

it down, but I thought it was really echo-y in comparison. So I moved it back up and now I'm closer to it. But sometimes the, the, it'll pop a little bit when I'm closer to it. It's a very delicate thing being a podcaster, my friends. It's not easy. Uh, who's the next player who will get traded? It's gotta be a receiver, right? Receivers getting traded left and right. I would have said Cooper Cup, but then now they came out and said, maybe Cooper Cup will not get traded.

And that's weird that yeah, there's a lot of permission to seek a trade, but we're not actually trading you. Alan Lazard got permission to seek a trade? That was strange. Who's trading for Alan Lazard? What can be sacrificed for more draft picks is another question. I don't know if they can make any trades really at this point. If the Vikings can be in on anybody.

They have two fifths and there are fifths. I think I saw that Washington is going to release Jonathan Allen, so there is a lot of like, hey, go seek a trade and then there's no trade to be had and the guy gets released anyway. But you would put your money on DK Metcalf now. I mean, if you're Seattle, I'm sure you don't wanna trade Metcalf, but you also really saw that JSN was able to develop

last year to be the guy out there. And maybe you could get something significant back for DK Metcalf with a lot of teams looking for top receivers, although he might end up in Green Bay. But they don't usually do that stuff. They don't usually make that big trade. So I don't know. Cam Scataboo Day 2 could see it. Judkins Henderson.

I mean, there's a lot of them. Those are the guys who I talk about the most because I'm most familiar with them,, there's a lot of them. Those are the guys who I talk about the most because I'm most familiar with them, but there's a lot of running backs. We're good odds of acres and Jones coming back. Love somebody in your life as KOC loves cam acres. I think there's a decent chance that both of them are back. Probably more likely Jones than acres.

But if Jones signs elsewhere, I could see them drafting a guy and having Cam Acres. He played well last year. I thought at the end of the year, he was more spry than Aaron Jones. But Camp Scataboo is an interesting guy. Metcalfe to the Packers, yeah, I mean, it's possible. Let's see, Caleb would rather sign DJ Reid

than Byron Murphy Jr. And I get that. The, the thing about DJ Reed is here's my one concern about DJ Reed and I like him a lot, but he does get penalized a lot. The other thing is too, he's 28, which I know you might say 28, but he was never an elite athlete. Like he ran like a four or five. It's not the biggest guy. He kind of does it with his, his violence and his aggressiveness, which results in a lot of penalties

and that might not age super well if he loses a step. So if you look at the history of corners, I think it's almost the same age curve as running backs. We just never talk about it because fantasy is not involved. But I mean, I'd like an analytic study on this, but I think this is true just based on observation that 28, 29, 30, you start to see those guys off. Okay, the sound is better, Sean says. That's what I'm going for. I know maybe it does look a little better if it's down here.

And I'll see if I can work that out. But just the way the setup is, I kind of have my desk in front of me. And if I would have to like lean way over to talk this closely into it. So I like it better this way. The audio is the most important. It's not the looks. As good as the looks are, of course. Can DJ Reid play multiple spots? Now he's more of a just a pure outside guy.

And that might be a reason is that, you know, Byron Murphy is multiple and he is a good zone corner. He's going the thing about the Vikings and some of the PFF numbers with corners is they're a little tricky sometimes because they don't play all that man coverage. So sometimes it's the ball is thrown into an area where that's where the guy is and he makes the tackle and PFF job. They track who is the nearest player who looks like they were closest in coverage. But so there's a lot of throws where Byron Murphy is that guy, but he's playing into a zone and they're throwing into that zone. It can be a little tricky.

I don't think that Byron Murphy is some sort of freak show Patrick Surtan dominant player. And if he gets paid like that, it would be insane. But if he's not paid like that, he's paid the next level down and Brian Flores really likes him, thinks he's a great fit, wants him in his locker room. He has been in the right place at the right time. Brian Flores really likes him, thinks he's a great fit, wants him in his locker room. He has been in the right place at the right time.

He makes plays. It's hard to be against having a guy like that. I think we like new toys. We like to go, well, this guy will definitely be better. But his team is letting him go too. So let's see, allday2884 says, seeing to knee get traded for a pick next year. Who would you like us to trade a day three pick of twenty twenty six? Oh, who in here?

You mean the comment section for Jonathan Allen? I'm just not like Jonathan Allen was really, really good a couple of years ago. Getting that guy who the team is letting go, who is not as good anymore, has been a little bit of a risky play, just historically. Like, oh yeah, he's coming off a bad year, but two years ago he was great. I think we made that argument about like Marcus Davenport, Dean Lowry. It's a little bit flawed to me. You kind of are what you are in the NFL or what you most recently were.

I don't know how many times we see a guy get banged up Have his play regress and then all of a sudden Shoop now what you're talking about. Whoa Got a little breaking news here not the Vikings, but the Chargers released Joey Bosa Okay, well there's another name on the list now the Vikings aren't you know going for Joey Bosa But that's another guy who's gonna be out there and that the Vikings aren't, you know, going for Joey Bosa, but that's another guy who's going to be out there. And that's the, of course, you know, I made my free agent list yesterday and just knowing, and if you want to check it out, purple insider football,

knowing that it's possible that this free agent list grows and grows in the coming days with teams releasing players to create cap space that they couldn't trade and that sort of thing. So I have not been a big fan of the idea of getting Jonathan Allen. I think maybe as a rotational rusher, if you were talking,

that his contract is not great for trading. So I'm not into trading for him. Tooney is coming off a year where he's still a great player and he's worth it and you can redo his contract. Maybe if they wanted to redo his contract, but then even then usually that results in multiple years of commitment I would much prefer that Washington cuts Jonathan Allen and then he signs for one year Seven million dollars and he plays alongside Derek Harmon or something like that But health I think the best place to play in free agency and in the

trademark, but especially free agency is get somebody who's 26, 27. You look much past that. It feels like you're taking your life in your hands because those older players have a lot of mileage on them. And that's the way I look at Jonathan Allen is just a lot of mileage. Great player three years ago. Good player recently, but injured. Not not a fan of that. I just, you know, if they are going to trade for somebody into the future, then that position makes some sense. But who gives away defensive tackles? That's the thing. If there's a great defensive

tackle and a team's giving them away, you got to go, what's wrong there? They know his medicals, they know his history, they know his trend, and they're going to keep them if he's playing well. So we love trades, I love trades, you love trades, but I'm not sure there's a great option that I've seen so far for a trade that would actually work for the Vikings, even if it was dipping into next year. And also maybe at some point in their lives, have some more draft picks, have a full draft of picks. So, all right. Well, I think that that's pretty good for now. I got no wrestling questions,

but actually I exhausted a lot of my wrestling knowledge just last night talking about how I enjoyed the execution of the John Cena thing. So I'm glad that there weren't but there will be a lot more questions to be answered and I'll have another live stream tomorrow Trying to live up to my promise. I don't know if I'm gonna go Friday night I guess we'll see Friday nights usually a night where people aren't watching live streams at 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock at night But definitely tomorrow because I owe intern clay So if you weren't here the other night, intern Clay caught a bad break. I forgot to turn off his audio behind the scenes.

He was blowing his nose and then it was going over the stream and that was a mess and he got blamed. And then then he started to do his Clay's corner with his. You know, his takeaway areas, his questions from the headlines. And then we got the breaking news about the franchise tag. So I had, you know, his takeaway areas, his questions from the headlines. And then we got the breaking news about the franchise tag. So I had, you know, okay, sorry, Clay, go away. And, uh, so tomorrow's a big night for clay to ask all his questions. We could break down all the things his job for tomorrow is to really look closely

at all the things that have been going on so far leading up to the start of free agency. So we'll spend a lot of time on that tomorrow night. And of course on Viking speculation, break news, quarterback questions and so forth. Son of Beaver says hot take, but do you think the Vikings trade Jalen Naylor? I think you have to have things to trade them for.

Like who's trading for Jalen Naylor? Is there a team in the NFL that would be like, yeah, give us your 20 catch wide receiver. Probably not, yeah, give us a year 20 catch wide receiver? Probably not. I think every team has a 20 catch wide receiver who's on a rookie contract. Jalen nailer is good at what he does, but what I would like to see them do is go after like a Greg Dorch or somebody in the draft on day three, who's just get the ball in their hands and makes a place. Brandon Powell just disappeared in that role. I thought he was going to be that kind of guy and was not that kind of guy.

How long before I assume you mean Levi Drake Rodriguez comes to in his own. It's hard to say on a seventh round pick if they ever will. He flashed in camp. He got in the game in Seattle and did a good job. I was impressed. But will he ever become something? He's a seventh round player. You just don't know if he's ever going to be anything.

Most of the time, somebody who's a seventh round pick at best, they can be a contributor in some way, a rotational role player, but I think next year we'll get a really good idea for that. If he's going to be that special outlier, then by next year, uh, at the end of training camp, we'll have a good sense for it. So usually it's year two and no matter where they were drafted, where they came from, it usually doesn't take more than two to three years to figure out what they're

going to be. Great questions, great comments. And thanks to Manny and Murph for the very enjoyable roundtable tonight. Talk quarterback. We'll do a lot of hot stove ish type stuff. I don't know. What do we call it in the off season? We just call it always football. So we'll do that. And again, check out my mock negotiation at purple insider dot football. I made that open for everybody. You don't need to sign up for the newsletter to read it. So just go purple insider dot football, read the mock negotiation, have fun, and we will see all later tomorrow night.

So thanks again for watching and football.