Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is it time for the Vikings to sign TJ Hockenson to an extension?

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Matthew Coller talks with Vikings fans about a strange TJ Hockenson situation and discusses whether it's time to sign him to a contract extension. He looks at whether there's any reason the Vikings could be against signing him and the arguments for keeping the Pro Bowl tight end around. We look at projecting a 53-man roster and some of the questions involved and discuss the guard position and why it isn't an excuse for the offense. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. I want to tell you about Purple Insider Football Jam, an event that we are holding at Inbound Brewing, which is in the North Loop. It's near Target Field, August 22nd. So Tuesday night, August 22nd from 6 to 9 o'clock at Inbound Brewing. We're doing a live podcast there, which you'll be able to come and ask questions, hang out. We're going to have an immaculate grid contest that we're creating, pick the schedule and much, much more.

So I'll be there for a few hours. Make sure that you stop by Inbound Brewing. There's no cost, no charge. And if you get there early, there's a chance we get you 50% off of your first beer. So make sure that you're coming down to listen to our live podcast, Purple Insider Football Jam, August 22nd. So Tuesday night from 6 to 9, that is Inbound Brewing. Inbound Brewing. Come check it out. All right, let's get into the show. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider.

Matthew Collar here with you again tonight live. So very happy to chat with all of you Vikings fans and break down what we saw at today's walkthrough and much, much more about the Minnesota Vikings as we always do. But a very interesting, intriguing, strange thing happening today. Not anything on the field. It was a walkthrough. So, you know, there was a Josh Oliver catch on a sort of a seven on seven that was pretty exciting, but nothing to really write home about when they do a walkthrough. But after practice, TJ Hawkinson talked with us and that's where we're going to start. But also you guys have inspired me to try to go through some 53 man roster stuff. And maybe even we should do at some point, like a live, try to figure out the-man roster together, and then we can debate some of these things because I get messages all the time on how the 53 is going to shape up.

I saw our friend Will Raggetts put out a 53-man roster. Maybe I should mock one as well. But TJ Hawkinson is definitely the place that we need to start because we spoke with him today and tried to ask questions about what has kept him out of practice and had a very tough time understanding any of his answers regarding why he was out of practice aside from him saying that he believed he would be ready to go week one and so it was kind of like four questions in a row of just how are you feeling? And it was whatever. You know, OK. All right. Are you going to practice this week? Well, we'll leave that up to Kevin O'Connell. OK. And we just didn't get any sort of clarity. What's going on with the ear? Are you balanced? I mean, if for those who haven't been paying

close attention to now what has become an inner ear saga, TJ Hawkinson has not practiced 11 on 11s in several weeks now, but he has continually taken warmups and participated in walkthroughs. And then when he was asked about what was happening, he answered that it was an ear infection, which would make sense, but it has kept him out for this long. And then he didn't want to comment, it seemed, on any further inquiries about said ear infection, which has left us to wonder what exactly is happening. And of course, the working theory of many, and it hasn't been of this show, but maybe it will be, is that he doesn't want to practice 11 on 11s because he is either in the midst and getting closer to a contract extension. And it is a hold in, which

of course, you know, these do happen, or it's something that is more serious than they want to let on. I'm not really sure, but as we go along here, it does feel a little bit more hold in ish. And the question is if it's a hold in, is it that they're on the cusp and he doesn't want to practice 11 on 11s because they're this close to a contract extension, which I would very much respect? Or is it that they're not making the progress that he wants them to make and he's trying to force that progress, but also doesn't want to completely not practice because that would put him behind knowing that he's not going to hold out of the regular season. And that's where it's a little odd to me. So you're not going to practice 11 on 11 to try to

force their hand, but you're still making it clear you're going to play come the regular season. If the contract isn't signed, I'm a little perplexed by the entire situation. And I guess the question is, should the Vikings just make sure this happens? Because when we went into training camp, I remember chatting with all of you guys and saying, hey, we could have a situation here where the first day of training camp, they trot out Hockinson and Jefferson together. They clasp hands and they say, us till 2029 or whatever. We've got five-year contract extensions that's six years five-year contract extensions and here we go baby super bowl that's was was within the realm of possibility

and then when that didn't happen okay well look you know some of these take a little bit longer than others so let's kind of work all this through and then we'll get to the middle of training camp. And then one day he'll just trot out in front of us and say he's happy to be a Viking for the next five years. And so far, nothing, still nothing. So as this lingers on, you do wonder more and more, is it that he is waiting for this contract to be done? Now, I don't have any issues whatsoever with TJ Hawkinson doing that. What I find weird is if he's saying that it's an ear issue, like why didn't he pick an ankle, a hammy, a soft tissue like how did he come to that

conclusion or maybe that was something that did crop up earlier and then we're in the point where it's just moved on to i'm not going to work out until i've got the contract extension which brings us to the official stance of purple insider for the entire offseason has been that the Minnesota Vikings should extend TJ Hawkinson. Question for you guys, for the chat. Do you agree with that? Do you think that he should, that they should sign him to a long-term, naturally quite expensive, contract extension. Because I think that one of the main goals of this offseason, and we're still in the offseason, is that they sign these guys to long-term, that you're setting yourself up for the future to have this offense that can be prolific if you get even a decent quarterback into the mix. And I think Hawkinson is a very important part

of that entire mix because he not only was such a great fit for Kirk Cousins last year, but I think really showed us the football IQ that he possesses by being able to step right in the way that he did. He's been largely healthy for tight ends through his career. He's on the younger side. He's a versatile player who can move all over the field. I would

not ask him to be, you know, do you guys remember Lee Smith? Okay. I'll say Jim Klein saucer. At least Smith was this giant hulking run blocking tight end that bounced around the league a bunch use him for immaculate grid if you play that game. But he's not Jim Kleinsasser, okay? He's not this big, giant dude who's going to block like crazy. But he is a really good receiving option. He's more of an underneath player, at least at the moment. But I think that he's got the speed to push downfield a little bit

more than he did last year. He had a couple drops. Most tight ends do, but I don't have an issue with his hands. His numbers are good. I don't know. What more is there really to discuss here except for how this team wants to distribute its funds? And is there some question about the positional value of the tight end? And one thing that I did wonder about when they signed Josh Oliver, who is an absolute monster in his size, but also he made a catch today that was like reaching up athletic move that you just don't see a man his size make. So maybe they look at it like, you know, it's maybe they look at it like Josh Oliver. They want to get a look at him. And if they like him as the future tight end, they'll go with him or they'll just franchise tag. Yeah, you're right.

Lee Smith was a great closer Cardinals and Cubs. That's true. But maybe they look at it like they can franchise tag Hawkinson if they want next year. Or if they just feel like they've got somebody else in Oliver, they can let him go, get the compensatory draft pick, and then move on with somebody else as their tight end. So I don't know. This is a complicated situation. When you trade a second round pick for a guy who's going into the last year of his contract, the presumption for me was that, okay, you're trading for him to sign him. He's going to be a long-term part of this team,

but they also might've just done it for the run and tried just to make something happen last year and figured we've got him for two years and we'll go from there. Or they could look at the franchise tag for next year and say, you know, the franchise tag's not going to be that expensive. But I don't really like to do things that way. Count on the franchise tag. One, these situations can get a little bit ugly

at times, but also that's a big cap hit. You can't mess with the salary cap hit when it's a franchise tag. It is what it is. So you can't extend them out to make the first two or three years that are a little bit better for your salary cap and then have it be restructurable down the road. It's just, it is what it is. If you want to franchise tag them, maybe they look at it that way. But I also think that as kind of, I would expect some of you in the comments, like jumping on Kwesi for this situation. I mean, we're still like what, 20 days from the start of the season like this can still play itself out and they can keep TJ Hawkinson long term but if they don't I think we will be saying huh what happens here and I do agree with you guys from the perspective of we went into this off

season and I remember ranking the people with the most most pressure on them for this year's training camp. And I think that I put Kweisi Adafomensa at the top for the person with the most pressure on them because of these complicated situations when it comes to the contracts. And so far, we are getting closer to the season and they have not been resolved again it's not the end of the world if they don't get hockinson extended and he's got to play he doesn't have an option it's not like you're not going to see tj hockinson just not play when it comes to the season but things have gotten just a little bit muddy here with this issue. So I look at it as there's still time to extend him. They should extend him. If they don't, he still plays here. You don't like lose him September 10th

and he just becomes a free agent or something still on the team. He's even still on the team through next year if they franchise tag him. And you can use the franchise tag twice if you want to with TJ Hawkins. But you'd prefer not to because it's just favorable to extend it. I think that that would be my preference based on the salary cap is that they extend him. They keep him around for a long time. And in my mind, unless there's something that they know that I don't know, there's no real red flag with TJ Hawkins. He is on the younger side. There's no real super shortage in his game other than being maybe not the best run blocker, which doesn't concern me that much. Then I would say, oh, you have to watch out for that or that's not the reason.

But yes, the franchise tag being cheap digits may play into this. That may be a part of the equation. I also think if you're working out a long-term contract extension, you can do even better flexibility-wise. And as you go forward, if TJ Hawkinson ends up having a really good year, the price goes up, right? If he ends up catching 100 passes, the price just goes up to extend him. So you're either letting him go at some point and just trying to squeeze out those franchise tags, or you're deciding this guy can be a long-term Viking. In the past, they haven't really franchise tagged people that often.

What, Anthony Harris? That really wasn't a very good choice, but they haven't really franchise tagged people that often. What, Anthony Harris? That really wasn't a very good choice. But they haven't really done that. They've usually tried to extend guys in this way. So I guess it seems like the red flag is the ear issues. Yeah, I guess that's true. That's the only red flag. But, you know, it's interesting just to get the reactions i think from you guys

about this situation because i think we all kind of stand on the same page it seems like the very clear consensus is that you want to keep him long term uh aaron says the franchise tag is 11.3 million yeah that's the thing is this might be a little penny wise pound foolish though, right? Because if you look at the comparable contracts, what Evan Ingram just got, George Kittle is a different level than TJ Hawkinson. Darren Waller, I think is considered a different level. So you end up landing between the franchise tag and the highest paid is kind of where I would stand on this. And that's like 15 million, 16 million a year. Now that's higher than the franchise tag, but you can also move the money

in different ways. So your cap hit is less than 11 million, especially for the first couple of years. And then you can set it up to move money around later if you have to, if you're in a win now window and you've got to create a little extra cap space. For me, it's just about flexibility and the long-term. I think this is a player that you want for five years. I don't think that this is a player you want for one extra year with the franchise tag and then he's not very happy. Let me go to some of your comments here. I read that ownership paid $400 million for a soccer team. I think they did. Was it $400 million? Jeez.

I guess, you know what I need to get into is like building whatever they built. I like creating content for you guys. But however they made all this money to build like all the stuff they have, that's what I should be doing. Anyway, let's see it's tied up ownerships funds and they don't want to spend more money as funds are tight for the wilfs did you hear about this um i i don't know i mean i don't know if that would play into it i would have assumed that they would have planned out how much money would need to go to Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkinson. It's possible that there is some sort of issue because when you give guaranteed money, you actually have to be able to

put up the cash is my understanding. But I feel like for this ownership group, cash has never been any part of the problem and that you would budget that out to begin with. I mean, that could be the case, but that seems like a little too far down the conspiracy sort of like maybe that's where all their money went and now they can't keep their key players that I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I don't think that that's it. I think that if it's anything, it's on TJ Hawkins' side, he wants more money than they want to give him. It's probably exactly what we think it is. And what we've seen from Kweisi Adafomensa and this front office in general, because he's not the only guy that is doing the negotiations,

Rob Brzezinski's involved and so forth. It's a total front office thing. And I think what we've seen is doing the negotiations. Rob Brzezinski is involved and so forth. It's a total front office thing. And I think what we've seen is a hard line where it's, hey, we love you, Delvin Tomlinson. You're the best. You're my guy. And then, you know, Cleveland comes in with a high price and he says, OK, well, you can go to Cleveland then. And Patrick Peterson, Hey, Patrick Peterson, you had an amazing year last year. Come back. Here's a contract offer. Um, Pittsburgh's going to give me more. All right. Well have a good time in the steel city. That's been really how they've handled everything this year. And I think that you can for those situations that, you know, they even played a hard line with Harrison Smith

and he just decided to come back. But when you look at his contract, he's making less money and I think he just wanted to be here. So I think that that approach is a very good one for those veteran players of we're not going to sign you guys to deals that are going to hurt us long term. When it came to Zedarius Smith, oh'Darrius, you want more money? Sorry, we're not really in that situation, so have fun in another city. Or Delvin Cook, the same thing.

You can take this deal, take less money if you want, although I think they predetermined the Delvin Cook one. But from everything that was out there, it seemed like they had a line that they wouldn't cross. And that was a very conservative line. They didn't go very far with these guys and maybe had the plan of sandbagging a little bit and having them say, no, I'm not taking that anyway. That would make a lot of sense.

But with these two situations, these are two of the best players at their position in the entire NFL. You can't really draw a hard line with Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkinson. Now, both of them, it's not over if they don't sign. But I think that your nervous level goes from not nervous at all to and we are talking about a market here in Minnesota that has, I don't know if you guys know this seen a player to leave throughout the years so I think that there's even more of an anxiousness from fans to try to get like people locked up so they're not forcing their way out anytime soon but

yeah I think that they've got a line that they don't want to cross with both of these guys and or at least I mean the line should be way out there with Justin Jefferson, but with TJ Hawkinson specifically. And if Hawkinson side isn't coming over that way, then it's not going to happen. But I think that they're going to have to be a little more willing to stretch on that with somebody of his talent. But if they decide to go the franchise tag route, you know, it to stretch on that with somebody of his talent. But if they decide to go the franchise tag route, you know, it's, it's not over, but I mean, we are talking about somebody who could be good for a long time. So, uh, an odd, I would say one of the more strange press conferences. And here's me. I, I hope, I don't know if they put the video up on vikings.com,

but like, here's me asking him about Josh Oliver too, because I felt uncomfortable. And also Josh Oliver has been awesome, by the way. So I want to write something about that. And I was like, is this the time to ask? Do you guys mind if I ask about Josh Oliver here? But yeah, we'll see. We'll see how that plays out. So anyway, let's see.

Can you still franchise tag them if you extend them? It depends on if it's in the contract. The answer is usually yes. But if you look at how Kirk Cousins set up his contract, I believe that Cousins set it up so he couldn't be franchise tagged. But they can put it in their contract. Daniil Hunter, that was one that recently happened. You can't franchise tag me. I think they put it in there that it was their contract. Daniil Hunter, that was one that recently happened. You can't franchise tag me.

I think they put it in there that it was like that. So it would depend. But if you're TJ Hawkinson, that's something you're probably trying to negotiate. And this is the challenge of someone like Hawkinson is there are a lot of considerations to be made that go beyond just, hey, pay the man his money. How much guaranteed? How many years? Does he want a three-year?

Does he want a five-year? Does he want the no franchise tag? Does he want a trade clause mixed in? Like all these things. And there's also the possibility that they don't think that he is one of the truly elite tight ends in the league. I think that he is a second tier, but the first tier is going to the Hall of Fame. But there's also a possibility that they just are very shrewd with this and don't want to pay somebody that they don't think is going to be worth that much. I don't know that that should be the case because

I think he's very good. From Matthew, how does tagging them affect the relationship between the team and player? That is a fundamental question here because one of the things is that when we're talking about negotiation, prices, what's somebody worth, we often talk about them as if they're a Madden video game character, right? Just like, ah, well, let's fiddle around, push the numbers around and then push submit and contract or, or, or cut them or whatever. Right. Uh, but that doesn't work that way. There's a locker room, there's a culture, there's a coaching staff, there's all these considerations, and there's your relationship with the player. And I don't think players like to be franchise tagged. I think players like security. They like to get

the contract they feel like they're worth. They like to have their day in the sun when all the websites, ESPN is running on the scroll and whatever, like, oh, signed a big mega contract. It's a great day for you. You get franchise tagged. TJ Hawkinson can definitely buy a new house if he wants to, but it's not quite the same as having that big contract that you've earned as a first round pick. You've got the accomplishments, the pro bowl, the big contract. like that's what everybody's looking for. And when the team won't sign you to those dollars, there's a little bit of, oh, and you know what? Most, most of us have gone through this, right? Like even in life,

we're not making millions of dollars, but most people have gone through a situation where you feel like at your job, you are not as respected as you should be. So even if you like your job and even if the people who are there telling you, love what you're doing, keep on grinding, man, you got it. But if they're not paying up, then you're saying, well, OK, you're not putting your money where your mouth is. You're not signing me to that long term deal. So to your question, I think it does affect relationships. I think it does affect long-term signings. And that's why I was saying like penny wise, pound foolish, because yeah, with a tight end that might next year save you a little bit of money but also if the relationship is harmed and that shortens the time that a star player is here that's not really good for you um right i think that's better to

have good relationships with the guys and it also again i i think it is uh cap friendly to sign someone to an extension because of the flexibility that it gives. So it seems like everybody is on board in terms of extending TJ Hawkinson after what we saw last year. The only, I guess, I mean, it's hard to make an argument against him. The only argument against him you could make is when you look at his usage and you look at the fact that they went out and got Oliver to block or they had Munt last year, he's still in. And sorry, there was a question about that that I'll scroll back and get to. Sorry. But Hawkinson doesn't block all that much.

He was playing somewhere else other than in line about 50% of the time. So if they think, well, we like this guy and he was great last year, but we need more of a traditional tight end. And maybe they don't feel like it's worth paying that much money than somebody who is moving around. Folks, there is no crazier time in my schedule than the fall season. And let me tell you, it is tough to find myself a good

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If you're looking to be calorie-conscious, they've got that too. Try delicious, calorie-smart meals with around or less than 550 calories per serving. Head to factormeals.com slash purple 50 and use the code purple 50 to get 50% off. That's code purple 50 at factormeals.com slash purple 50 to get 50% off. I did want to kind of like reevaluate where we stood on the entire situation with the general manager, the front office and so forth. When we get to the end of training camp, because I don't want to start saying, well, what are they doing? What was going on here? And then have them like extend Hawkinson tomorrow. It happened that way with Hunter, where we were kind of pushing the button. Jeremy Fowler's out there reporting that they're talking about trades and we're going, oh,

man, it could be it could be crazy. They might trade Hunter. Next day, he's got an extension. So let's let's not hit any panic buttons first. But I will say that if you are at the end of training camp and there's no extension for either player and then we're gonna go okay what happened so what happened um that that will be a little bit puzzling so anyway there was a question about oh whether nick muse let me see and i appreciate all the participation but i ended up having to scroll way down

on the question it was whether oh yeah whether nick muse could be there it is from hunter who makes the team johnny munt or nick muse so muse has been really great in the preseason games no question about that and on my initial 53 i I included Nick Muse over Johnny Munt. I am going to change that to Johnny Munt making the 53. And I think maybe in like 20 minutes or something, we should do a mock 53 and see if we can figure it all out. And I'll do it on the fly. I didn't have that as an idea, but there seems to be a lot of, you know, kind of chatter about what's going to happen with the 53. So we can, you know, play that game. But the thing with Nick Muse is that you can cut him and put him on the practice squad with no problem. And next year you might end up having that spot because, you know, as Johnny Munt here for this year and another year, Josh Oliver's clearly here,

but now we're not even sure about TJ Hawkinson. I don't know. I think that probably no one's going to pick up Nick Muse. And the other thing to keep in mind is that whatever you see in the preseason game, even though the first game we got pretty excited for, and I thought that it did tell us some stuff, how people perform in those games just does not seem to be much of a determining factor for this team. It seems like they really care so much more about joint practices, and that's why they schedule two teams of joint practices.

And that just matters to them more in how people perform, that those are their preseason games and the ones that they put the jerseys on for and show up to us bank stadium. They're like for entertainment purposes only, and not really in terms of evaluation, because every question about a player's performance is more or less answered with, well,

we weren't really trying. I mean, the other night it's like they run for 280 yards and it was, well, we were running defenses that weren't made to stop that. I was like, Oh, the other night, it's like they run for 280 yards and it was, well, we were running defenses that weren't made to stop that. I was like, oh, okay, well, that makes it pretty hard to evaluate guys, doesn't it? But it's just that it's a different philosophy that has made it way less easy to pick up on what they're trying to do and who they like. And if it matters that, you know that a guy stands out or not. And I think if T.Y. McGill last year couldn't make the team.

After mauling the heck out of everybody. As a defensive tackle. That was a pretty clear sign. That Nick Muse catching passes or whatever. Probably doesn't really move the needle. If they do it, I'll be intrigued. Okay, they must like this guy. But they brought over Johnny Munt.

They've spoken highly of him. When Kevin O'Connell calls him the best No. 3 tight end, weird comment, but I think that tells you where they stand. So, yeah, it's hard to kind of figure out from preseason action how they feel about certain guys or what exactly that means. From T. Klubler, why did TJ's yards per catch drop so much going from the Lions to the Vikings last year? Bad plays from KOC. I don't think it was that.

I think that what he turned into was, well, one, there were two passes that were more downfield-ish that he dropped. And I think that that might play into it. I mean, maybe that's an issue with him. I don't think so, though. There was the one in the end zone against Dallas, and there was one against Detroit. And both of those were like 12, 15-yard passes that he dropped. I don't know how much that impacted it.

But I remember there were a couple downfield opportunities he couldn't bring in where they did target him or at least over 10 yards that just didn't work out. So that might be part of it. I'd have to look at his average depth of target. Maybe I can find that and what that was because that might tell us a little more clearly, like, was it just the catches that were made? I think more than anything was that Kevin O'Connell likes to send players down the field receivers. I mean, and he's the underneath guy that was there. Can we get an average depth of target here? So I'm poking around while I'm talking at the same time. That's not as easy as I try to make it look.

I don't ever make it look easy, do I? Let's see. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Average depth of target. So let's see oh yeah here we go average depth of target so um let's see last year with the vikings what was it is this is this good uh streaming right here where i just talk and i could show you guys what i'm looking at but i'm trying to get the little button to move okay there it goes uh it wasn't actually that different yeah Yeah, that's what I thought. So let me see. Maybe I can show this. Hold on. Everybody just wait quietly. We'll get there. Here it is. There's what I'm looking

at. Can you see it? Okay. You can sort of see it. There you go. There you go. Now you can see it. So he had, if we look over at the average depth of target for Detroit, it was 8.2 yards. And if I scroll down for the Vikings, it was 7.7. And I think what happened with Detroit is that he had a couple of yards after catch receptions where he got big yards after catch gain, and it didn't happen with the Vikings, but he does have that capability to get yards after catch so i think that that's kind of what played into it plus being that security blanket so could there be an argument that anybody can be that underneath guy i mean maybe but i don't know if i really buy that because i think he's versatile i think he's really smart i'd like to i'd like them to keep them around. Let's see from Skull City Blues heard.

Oh, you meant Louis seen limped off the field today. He did. Yeah. So they were running some sort of just little special teams drill and he kind of pulled up lame a little bit and he didn't participate after that, but he didn't leave the field. So he didn't like go running back into there's the use the bathroom door and there's the injury door and he didn't go back running into the injury door. So I don't know what happened or if it's going to keep him out.

He certainly needs these joint practices. They're going to practice tomorrow and it'll be a little bit of an odd thing tomorrow night because i'm doing this event that i should actually tell you guys about uh tomorrow night at inbound brewing which is near target field you're going to want to check it out we're calling it football jam so if any of you guys are out and about tomorrow from six to nine somewhere in that range inbound brewing is where i'm going to be doing the show i am going to do my best to try to stream the show we're going to be recording at seven but technologically wise i'm hopeful but it's not a guarantee that i'm going to be able to stream it so i'll do my best

to try to at least maybe record it but that's what's going on tomorrow night so if you have a chance inbound brewing from six to nine uh i'm trying to create like my own immaculate grid game, pick the Vikings. If you show up early, get you, you know, 50% off a beer. So make sure you check it out. But anyway, to your point, yeah. Lewis scene did kind of pull up and didn't practice after that. And you know, I don't know what's going to happen there, but there has been a lot of Lewis scene discussion on the show recently. And I think we've all kind of come to the same spot this year at the start of the season, Lewis scene will not be competing for a starting position and it will be next year, whether it is the let's call it or not.

We are much closer to calling it right now, much closer than we were at the beginning of camp. Because I thought there was like a 50-50 shot that Louisine just showed up, rose to the occasion, took away the first team job, or at least had Josh Metellus' job, where Brian Flores said, man, you're doing so well, I'm going to get you some spot, because he's done that with Metellus. So I thought that that was possible, but the fact that that hasn't happened has just pushed us much toward the, this might not work out, but I'm willing to give it one more camp next year,

or see what happens throughout the season. He may be pushed into a role. We're just assuming everybody's going to play all the games. Might not happen. But at this moment, it is not trending in the right direction. And if he's not able to practice this week, two more vital practices for them, the joint practice, still, yeah. I mean, that would be not good for him him as it's been not good for a lot of players. So just to kind of run through, and I know I usually start the show this way, but we

just got rolling on Hawkinson, but just to kind of roll through Jalen Naylor was working out today. So I think there's a decent chance that Jalen Naylor is practicing this week and maybe gets into the game this weekend. I think that that is possible based on the fact that he was out there actually working out today. He was running routes, catching the football. Looks like it's time to get him ramped back up after a long wait with what was some sort of leg injury. But every time, and some of you have pointed this out, every time Kevin O'Connell talks about Jalen Naylor seems to light up a little. He seems to like Jalen Naylor. We just haven't had a chance to really see it. And because he hasn't been practicing last year, I thought he was fine in practices, got in a couple games, made a couple of plays, but really we don't have an evaluation like he does. So maybe they feel like they like the way that Jalen Naylor handles himself in

meetings and understands the offense and they've just been waiting for him to get back. So it looks like that's going to happen because he was out there today. Jordan Addison was also out there today, but had a red jersey on, which is a non-contact, what quarterbacks wear. I would assume that, I actually don't know if he's still in the protocol or out of the protocol, but just a precaution to wear that. But he was doing everything. So he was running around, he was making his catches and whatever. He had a couple nice catches today in this sort of slow motion version. I assume that he will be back as well in practicing against the Cardinals this week and that they can go forward with the starting receivers, assuming that we get to week one.

But Kenny Wong Wu, Brian Asamoah, still not practicing and still watching their jobs go to other people. Also, Jordan Tuamu, for all of you XFL fans, all of us, there are literally dozens for Arrested Development fans. There are literally dozens of us XFL fans. Jordan Tuamu was really hucking it out there. So we didn't talk about this at all because it's a backup quarterback

and we had a football game the other day and stuff. But them bringing in Jordan Tom, who you kind of go, what's that about? Like, who are they sending a message to? Is it Nick Mullins? Are they not happy with how it's going? I mean, it hasn't gone great in practice for Nick Mullins, but that's what I would expect for a backup. Is it Jaron Hall that they want to just kind of light a fire? I don't know. I thought Jaron Hall was better or was it, you just got an opportunity to bring somebody in, put on the practice squad maybe,

or give a chance. Or if you don't plan on the third game playing Mullins, you need to have somebody else. Like if you're not going to dress Mullins, then you need to have someone else to go with Jaron Hall. Maybe figure you give him a chance to compete i don't know like slightly interesting i don't know how interesting it is yeah some of you know the reference uh hunter says vibe check inside tco still positive or is there any tension and worry i think that the injuries should cause a little bit of tension and a little bit of worry.

And the fact that the players that we mostly named and listed as, hey, big camp for, let's run down them. Big camp for Ed Ingram. Anybody feel better about that? Not yet. Big camp for Andrew Booth Jr. He's still behind Jawan Williams. Big camp for Brian Asamoah. So far, he Jawan Williams. Big camp for Brian Asamoah.

So far, he's been beat out by an undrafted free agent. I mean, Caleb Evans, Makai Blackman, those are some guys who have stepped up. Jordan Addison, of course. But Kene Wongwu, huge camp for Kene Wongwu. You want to be a guy, you got a chance. And he hasn't practiced. I mean, so, you know know i think that there are a lot

of guys that were kind of expected to be in semi-key positions i mean awesome oh it was expected to be a starting linebacker but i mean kenny wong woo being rb2 that's a pretty important position in the nfl today with running backs get injured all the time and we just haven't seen him so there's been a lot of those players i don't think that that changes the reality though that most of the defense is healthy and they haven't lost a bunch of guys to major injuries right now you've got blackman out not sure how long not major according to the report and then you've got aside from that just brian asamoah but it seems like he wasn't starting there anyway. And the rest of them are healthy.

And on offense, Addison missed a couple days. Everybody else healthy. The whole offensive line, good to go. Of course, these might be famous last words, but you've got the receivers, Jefferson, Osborne, you're starting running back. So I think that it's really around the margins that there's some of these things.

But overall, the team is in pretty good shape at the moment, I think. But when you have some of these players that we talk about as being exciting in training camp, and then they get hurt, and then we don't see any of them, then you go, okay, well, you know. I mean, I guess we don't have any of them. Then you go, okay, well, you know, I mean, I guess we don't have anything to talk about there. You guys want to talk about how Jefferson's awesome again? He is. They should extend him too.

He's great. Like, there you go. There's a take, right? So some of these guys that were supposed to be interesting, I think we all came into camp after minicamp and OTAs saying, Jalen Naylor, man, like he really showed out in the spring, big chance for him. And then we just haven't had a chance. So our vibes may have been brought down a little bit by that, but I think overall they know, I mean,

their quarterback is operating the offense pretty well. Their top receiver is a superstar and has just destroyed everything in sight. They should also feel really good about the training camp that KJ Osborne has had, the training camp that Jordan Addison has had overall. So I think that that's gone pretty well. All right, what else do we got to talk about? Let's see. Is it possible Ivan Pace is just that good? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's possible that he's better at this point in his career than Asamoah. And yeah, you're right. It does get presented to some extent're the incumbent asamoah and they were really excited about you as a third round pick who got in a little bit last year and made a couple splash plays

like that should be your job right unless you you have somebody else you know take it away so yeah i i don't yeah is it is it maybe it isn't that rational to be down on Asamoah, but he had his job taken away and then hasn't practiced since. It's kind of hard to be up on him. But to your question, Ivan Pace has had a tremendous training camp. He has had a really tremendous training camp. And the way that the coaches talk about him, they get very excited when it comes to that. So I think that they expect now him to

step in and be a good starter right off the bat based on what they've seen in training camp that's that's kind of the vibe that you get so maybe it maybe it is more of just that um let's see who do we see on special teams uh well naji thompson has certainly earned himself a job i think he looks like he's the special team guy, although he, you know, he got banged up the other night as well, but every year there's kind of some player that just emerges the Dan Jacenna and so forth that just emerge and they win one of those jobs. I think it's important to have one of those players that is your gunner and

plays every part of special teams. Not something that you really appreciate until it's important to have one of those players that is your gunner and plays every part of special teams not something that you really appreciate until it's actually good um you know so i i think that thompson is is a really great story uh do you guys want to play around the 53 you want to give it a shot let's see maybe i can screen share a blank sheet here let's give it a shot let's talk about the 53. Guess what I'm doing? For all my road trips, I'm figuring out what other sports games

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download game time today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed here we go there's a blank sheet we can a 53. Maybe I can make big giant letters for everybody to be able to read. What's the question here? Doesn't the players union have any say in contract talks and these players, how does it work with agents and the players union during talks? I don't think that the players union would have to be involved at all in something like what's going on now. It's pretty straightforward between the team and the player

um and it's whether they they get them signed or not i mean i i don't think that there's anything that's nefarious maybe with the lamar jackson stuff there would be that's where it would be so here's a question right off the bat for our mock 53 kirk cousins will make the starting team and Nick Mullins I assume are we are we all good with saying that there's just two quarterbacks uh leave a guard spot open for free agent yeah that's very possible I mean Chris Reed has not practiced at all my assumption is that they think that Chris Reed will get healthy and that he'll be back and he will be the backup guard at the moment. But yeah, I think that you're right, Matthew. And I'm not going to try to fill out a practice squad here because that is insane. But I think that

Jaron Hall will be on the practice squad or Jordan Duamo. Like you can do that if you want with older players. So in the running back room, we're going to go, obviously, Madison. Wong Wu, assuming he's healthy, might be an IR situation. That could happen. Chandler. Now, I got a little question marks here, though. I mean, and of course, well, we give his own designation to CJ Hamm. I have questions about whether they're going to keep Dwayne McBride or not.

It has not been an exciting training camp for Dwayne McBride. I don't think that he has shown that he could be trusted in real games. So they've got a couple other guys. They've got Abram Smith from the XFL. They got the other guy they signed, Aaron Dykes, who had a good kick return the other night. I am not really sure about who starts at running back, if it's Dwayne McBride or not.

Wide receiver is tricky. Justin Jefferson, of course, and KJ Osborne, Jordan Addison. So that's a three as of this moment I'm assuming it's Naylor with the fact that he's back do we go Rager or Powell I have been really struggling if it's Rager or Powell I you know the other night somebody was asking and I was like no it's you know it's it's definitely R. He was kind of getting the first team reps. And then, I don't know, like the other night, I thought Powell played well. I think Powell runs better routes, probably catches the ball a little bit better,

has had a good kick return. I am really conflicted about that. And I think that Jackson belongs on the team and then Powell. But I could be wrong about that. That's one that's really hard to figure out because that makes six. And I don't know if they want to keep six. I don't know if they want to keep Christian Jackson. He's just been so good. He had another really, really good, uh, uh, really, really good catch today. Um, let's see. So, uh uh i'm making this sorry skull city blues i'm making this like on the fly here i didn't pre-make the depth chart so i'm working on it on the fly here tight end we've got

hockinson if i just type in the whole thing then we won't have much to talk about let's see we're assuming it's you know ho, Hawkinson, Oliver and Muse. No, not Muse. Munt. And Muse goes on the practice squad. And the offensive line, we've got, you know, the obvious starters. And I assume that we don't need to argue too much about the backups. But how many will they keep? Schlotman, Udo, Vidarian Lowe and Blake Brandl. That would be four more. So we'll assume starters and four more. Starters and four more.

On the D-line, now this is where it gets interesting on the defensive line. You guys want Brandon Powell. I understand that. That's where I'm leaning right now. But I swing back and forth with every practice and every, you know, every game that they play. Because Rager got the first reps in the first preseason game. And then Powell got the first reps returning in the last game. So maybe that's where our real competition went.

We don't get that competition for the kickers, unfortunately. Fortunately. Now the D line is pretty tough because you have, you know, you've got obviously Lowry, Tonga Phillips. We count outside linebackers is the line. I'm going to do that. Want them Hunter Davenport. So there's your guys that are going to play regularly. Now who goes behind them is a pretty interesting question because then we've got a tomo sheldon day tj smith ross blacklock bullard is a lock bullard is definitely a lock so that's one two three four five six seven and then

i think that they're going to keep 10 defensive linemen oh yes patrick jones thank you that's why you guys are here jones so now i'm at eight so now it comes down to are you keeping tj smith as a little interior depth a tomo i think a tomo makes the team because he's got a little bit of upside i thought thought he played. I think I agree with you. I think Blacklock is out. Otomo is in. And I'm going to say TJ Smith is probably in there. He is not as flashy, but he's just like another big body for the middle.

And that might be how it plays out. The linebackers are pretty straightforward. And I think that the secondary is pretty straightforward too. And the special teamers. So there isn't like a ton to debate there. I mean, if you guys wanted to debate Troy reader versus Abraham bow plan, I mean,

we can. So I think that that gives us a pretty good look at what this is going to be like on the 53. Oh yeah. You're right, Jaqueline Roy. Yeah, that's a good call. So maybe they're, yeah, that's a good point, Jaqueline Roy. So there might be a debate there between TJ Smith, Sheldon Day, Jaqueline Roy, because that's 3-6, 7-8-9-10.

Are they keeping 11 of those guys? Probably not. And then, oh, yeah, Najee Thompson on the secondary is the guy to debate because it's pretty straightforward otherwise they're not cutting Andrew Booth and uh Jawan Williams is going to be on the team Jay Ward is going to be on the team I think it's it's going to be hard for Theo Jackson to make it. And then Najee Thompson as the special teamer. And I think we can make that all work for 53. So you're right, Jeffrey, that TJ Smith has looked serviceable. That's true.

This is just reader belongs in a library, not on the field. So there's some of the debates that we can run through with the 53. I figured we could just do that on the fly. Maybe I'll put an official one out and put all the work into it. So you guys won't have to remind me who's on the team next time. So what else do we want to talk about before we wrap up for the evening? This has been another fun chat, always interesting. But it is kind of, you know, do they keep Tristan Jackson is a real big question

for me going into the final cuts. Is it TJ Smith? Do they keep 11 defensive linemen? They usually keep 10 could make a change there. Do they try to fit Theo Jackson? Do they make room for Najee Thompson? I think that they will. So there's a lot to discuss and break down when we get there. The thing that, you know, oh, yeah, Luigi Villain. See how hard this is? Luigi Villain on the D-line. Oh, man, that's a good question. So then do you send out TJ Smith or Asasia Tomowo?

That's a good one. Hmm. Because Luigi of Elaine's been good and you do need edge depth because you would only have four outside linebackers if the lane isn't there. So yeah, that maybe it is a Tomo who's gone. I don't know. I mean,

he was playing quite a bit in the preseason game, which is not the greatest sign for him. And maybe they could get him to the practice squad, but he was out there last year, had a couple of plays where he flashed. That D line is pretty challenging. Well, you're right here. Before I answer that question, I think if we have to remind you of a player, he wouldn't have stood out in camp. Well, the reason I wasn't thinking of Jaqueline Roy is because he hasn't practiced in a while. So, yeah, that is it. Cut Patrick Jones, keep Villain. I don't think so. The fact that Jones was not playing the other night would make me think that he is probably in and probably safe on the roster.

Valeno should probably be in there just as depth, right? I don't know. I mean, you do need some depth there. They just cut a guy, Curtis Weaver. You've got Benton Whitley. Yeah, I'm not sure. That's good. Let's see so uh jordan says how should the viking use the rest of the cap space for this year well

i think that ties back into uh what we were talking about with tj hawkinson which is on him him and justin jefferson that would be the place that i would start is just with those extensions that you kind of need to keep some of that cap space available because the more money you can work into this year, the better. That means you don't have to pay it later and your team is already formulated, just gives you a little more space down the road to work with. But if they're not going to do that, then, you know, this was something I wrote about and I have really debated heavily over whether I think they should sign people or not, because there's definitely a part of me that thinks, yeah, I mean, you should sign people like you're here to win. Right. Look around the NFC. Can you not win the NFC? I think you well, maybe the whole NFC would be hard, but can you not win the nfc north i think you can but not if you get alexander madison hurt and nobody can play running back behind him that's going to be tough or if your

cornerback depth struggles so much or you know a number of other things so they could use it on some last minute free agents but i think that this is the week to do it because you can get somebody in have them participate against the cardinals in joint practices as much as you could. Try to get them in a preseason game. Have them ready to go by the start of the season. That would be my plan would be if you're signing players, then do it now. It doesn't feel like it's going to happen. It just seems like they've had guys in and they're not

that interested in filling out some of these spots and they want to let the young players play. And I'm very on the fence about that because the young players have had quite a long time to prove themselves during this training camp and they have not done it yet. And so we're, we're waiting, you know, we're, we're waiting like, okay, are you going to sign somebody or are you just going into this season? Like, you know, sink or swim. And if that's the case, I understand it. But I also think that you set the expectations at returning to the playoffs. So you really do have to do everything you can now that you've got a sample size on some of these guys not working out.

Very much on the fence in that. That's what I wrote about today at the website. From Jason, any chance we look at Greedy Williams since he was just cut? Somebody's cut right now. I've got big questions. Big questions. Why is he being cut? He is a former high draft pick which we've seen

quesia da fomenta take shots on he has pretty consistently brought in guys who were second round draft picks first round draft picks like jalen rager like ross blacklock juwan williams but also so why did he get cut why did he get cut? Why did he get cut now? Does he have an injury? Is he just bad? How many players that get cut in the middle of a training camp like this latch on somewhere else and it works great. Or, you know, did they say, Hey, look, you know, we've got other players we want and you're going to get cut. So we'll cut you now and you can latch on with another team. But usually they wait till the end to make their cuts. That would definitely make me question why he was let go. And Kweisi Adafomento would have some insight into that being from Cleveland. So if he really liked him,

that would be someone that they would look at. This is true that last minute free agent running backs are a dime a dozen. But if one of the key elements of Kevin O'Connell's offense that he's concerned about is pass blocking, it does take a little bit to get the pass blocking stuff down as a running back. I don't know if you just want to sign some guy after 53s get cut down and maybe have to potentially use that player if there's an injury in the running back room. Or would you want to just give him more time? I think you'd probably want to give him more time. But you do make a fair point that running backs tend to be kind of everywhere. Even during the regular season, there's always somebody kicking around who signs in week four and is fine.

So, yeah, that's not a panic position. But if you're signing for some other spot, if you need depth corner, if you're looking for another rusher, if you're looking for another lineman, it would be wise to do it now. Who on the defensive line can make it to the practice squad? Well, they can put whoever they want on the practice squad. It just depends on whether that player agrees to sign to the practice squad. So if you wanted like Sheldon Day, who had a great game the other night, he's a veteran, but it used to be that there was only so much eligibility and that still kind of exists, but now you can put veterans on there. So if you want to use one of the veteran spots, you can, which I think has been great for the NFL is to have those veteran spots on the practice squad.

So they could put whoever there, it just depends on what they get signed by someone else. Would they agree to it? That's, that's part of the conversation as well. And I think, you know, somebody like a Sazia Tomoo do you want to go try it somewhere else if they're cutting you i don't know do you sign here is there interest from someone else i'm not sure um so let's see from jordan i guess the better question is who can the vikings afford to sign right now i mean i still keep looking at Melvin Ingram and wonder why that wouldn't be a thing. I mean, DJ Wanham is a rotational rusher right now. And over the last few years, we've seen, I mean, not a lot from DJ Wanham. His pressure rate was pretty low. His sacks were high one year,

but then certainly went down last year. I mean, if you've seen him for four years, do you need more analysis of him? You've seen, I mean, they have four years of tape as him as a Viking. I know this team had him just last year, but even Patrick Jones, like, are you expecting more from him? Or could you just sign a Melvin Ingram? They also could want to sign these guys after week one you know there's that little wrinkle about week one where if you sign someone after week one then you don't have to pay them the guaranteed deal and that plays into it as well and potentially we've

seen some of those signings happen after week one because of that they could be holding out an edge rusher where it's a little more simple but But right now, I think everyone should be on the table for who they can afford. It must be with Dalton Reisner that he wants too much money. I think that could be it for Reisner, but that's the only thing I can think of for why he hasn't signed. I'm not sure. What about Bob says, unless the offense puts up 30 plus a game, this team is winning six to eight games, one or two injuries, and we're drafting top five to which Ken follows up with, I'll take tra drafting top five. Good timing there, Ken. Good timing. Yeah. Well, and look, if you're drafting top five, then, I mean, we know the deal with that.

30 plus points a game, you know, I guess what you're saying is that the defense is going to be horrible. I would have a tough time arguing with that if they had a different defensive coordinator. I am always a little bit skeptical about how much a defensive coordinator can impact what's going on, but there are some numbers that have tried to attempt to figure it out. How much play calling matters for defensive coordinators and Brian Flores does very well in those metrics. His defenses have been very boom or bust over the years, which makes it harder to figure out when you're attacking the quarterback all the years, which makes it harder to figure out when you're attacking the quarterback all the time.

You are going to give up big plays. You are going to stress the corners. We also don't know that these corners aren't good. What we've seen so far from a Caleb Evans and Makai Blackman has actually been pretty good. And we'll just assume that Blackman is here and Evans is here. They do have injury issues. And if there are injuries and you're it's Jawan Williams and Andrew Booth Jr. But this,

this goes for a lot of teams. Of course, when you look at that defensive line, Hunter Davenport, okay. Dean Lowry, Harrison Phillips. These are all guys who could play in the NFL. I mean, you should have a serviceable group of defensive linemen at that point. But to me, it all comes down to the coverage, the outside corners. These guys are going to be stressed quite a bit this season. And if they can handle it, then you've got corners for years. And your defense can be decent. If they can't handle it, then exactly the scenario you're laying out is right. And I guess the question that I come back to is, should they have signed someone like Ron Darby as a just-in-case

because I'm not super confident in Juwan Williams and Andrew Booth Jr.? Should they have tried to fill that out a little bit more rather than just taking shots on people or having young players step into those roles. But that's what it means to be in a competitive rebuild. So a lot to still take in with this team. Can we start the... That's good. That's a nice throwback, Matthew.

Can we start the skull searching next week? By the way, so a couple of things to tell you guys about. Reminder that inbound brewing is where we're going to be tomorrow night, 6 to 9 o'clock. Of course, 6 to 9, I had to do it. But 7 to 8 is when I'm going to do the podcast live at Inbound Brewing. So if you enjoy the show, you're in Minneapolis or wherever, it's not that far from St. Paul, it's down by Target Field. Easy to park, not hard to find. Super nice place. They're going to have food trucks. It's going to be hot out. It'll be

nice. I'm going to bring some stuff, bring some mini footballs, bring some posters that got that helmet on them. So it's going to be a fun time. We're going to make a whole thing out of it. And I want it to be a simulation of what this is like, where people ask questions and we make it interactive. So that'll be a fun time. That is inbound brewing tomorrow night. Also later this week, I am going out to Circa, which is in Las Vegas. So Thursday, there's going to be a couple shows that pop up live. So keep an eye on for those but i'll be in vegas on thursday and friday doing some shows out there for the millions contest with circa and that's going to be really fun circa sports.com if you guys want to find out about that and also highly suggest circa as a place to go to um if

you're going to the game this year in vegas that's where I'm going to be is at circa. So just want to tell you guys about that before I forgot, I can answer a few more questions here before we wrap up. Uh, does the Reisner, I assume you mean news ever get leaked about any free agents wants, or, uh, are we just glazed over by football after week one? Yeah. I mean, sometimes that does. I haven't heard anything. It's just been my assumption that the only thing that would keep that guy off a team would be his own demands. And it's getting pretty late at this point. Is he waiting for somebody to get hurt and somebody to get like banged up? Am I going to go on vcin

possibly i don't know i i've gone on with those guys before that's a very cool network out there i i would like that i hope that i can uh can meet those guys this is sean king work for them i've met them a few times through the years but i would like to go and uh and meet them we'll see but to the point we will find out at some point about Dalton Reisner. He's either going to sign last minute. He's going to wait for somebody to get hurt and get desperate and pay his price. Or he's just going to sit out. I don't know.

But I mean, I wondered, is he not a fit with places? But then I remembered that Richie Incognito was brought back to the league. So there's no real standard with that. You know, if teams get desperate and want to guard, they'll go get a guard. I would guess that he's just holding out for his price and hoping that, not hoping, but waiting to see if a team says, you know what, our guard situation is bad. They also might have told him he had to compete in training camp, the Vikings, with Ed Ingram or Ezra Cleveland. And they just decided, he just decided, no, I don't want to compete. I want that starting job if you're going to give it to me.

From Newt, I am less excited for this year based on the talent level. Quasey did not improve his interior offensive line. Good teams win in the trenches. Now, you're right. Well, so that's a hard one. I mean, if you, now I personally would have tried to improve the interior offensive line. I am on your side with that. But if you are going into a year with a clear plan, which is to give a lot of players sink or swim situations, then you have to let it play out. Like that is what they've laid out here.

And again, I would have a parachute. Maybe they thought Chris Reed was going to be that. And he has been a starter in his career in the past. But a lot of situations, the cornerbacks are definitely this. The linebacker aside from Jordan Hicks, a little bit of the receiver element, the running back for sure, Alexander Madison, sink or swim. We brought you back because we like you, but he's never started before. That's what it means to kind of be in the middle where

they're in between a total rebuild where you've got nothing and a championship caliber contender where it's all veterans or stars or young stars. So they want to find out who's a part of this team in the future. Well, competing, it's a hard thing to do. And sometimes that means starting a guy that you don't think is going to make it. I don't know if they think he's going to make it. I know you don't think he's going to make it, but we'll see. We'll see because these guys do develop and that's probably what they want to find out is can he develop and we've seen that before we saw that with Garrett Bradbury last year I don't know it's part of the

entire direction sort of what they said they were going to do I mean also can I just I mean I know I try not to give this rant very often but if the reason you're not excited for the season is the guard position I don't like then we're just too far. We've just gone too far. Like we need a game. We've just gone too far. We've just passed a certain line. Like if you can't win the division, if you're the Vikings in this kind of division,

if you guys are watching baseball this year, this is the NFC North could be the AL Central. They're just not that good, right? Lots of teams that are mediocre. If you can't win the division because of a guard, then you weren't good. Anyway, this team won 13 games with this interior line last year. Like you can overcome, we can make it together. We can, they could be a good offense despite a bad guard. That's possible. When you have the greatest receiver on earth, two of the best tackles on earth,

three good receivers, like a good quarterback, like you can do it. You can do it. I really don't think that we need to focus so much on the guard position all the time to the point where it's losing your enthusiasm for the season. What about Bob says, would love to hear your non-Viking writer opinion of the current Vikings team. Take your reporter hat off and honestly say what you think. Do you think I'm lying to you?

Like, I don't know what you mean. You think I'm like, I'm not sure what you, what you think I'm doing here. Uh, there's, there's never a moment of me doing this job ever where it's anything, but what I think if I thought they were going to win five games, I would tell you guys, they're going to win five games. I don't think they're going to win five games. Their quarterback has never won five games. He's always won seven games or more. So we could start there. And I also think that when you look at Brian Flores' history, you can point to actual data that shows that he has elevated what he has. And when he's had good defenses, they've been great. And when he, you know, so i think that they should be a team that's in the mix for

the nfc north you have the best wide receiver on earth you should have a top 10 offense you should be in the mix it's not a great nfc uh that's not a guarantee i'm not putting fifty thousand dollars on it i just think that's where they should be. I set my win losses by the expectation of what they should be. And they should be a 10 win team. They should be a nine win team. They should be competing for this division. I mean, if you think that they're going to be horrible, that's a fine opinion going into a season. None of us know last year, I thought they were going to win nine games. They won 13. They totally surprised me. In 2021, I thought they were going to win 11 games

and they won eight because they lost all the final games. Nobody really knows. Even those Vegas over-unders, not that predictive of how it actually works out. But I feel like we've been doing this long enough to not be suggesting that I'm like holding back my true takes. I think they should sign TJ Hawkinson, we've been doing this long enough to not be suggesting that I'm like holding back my true takes.

I think they should sign TJ Hawkinson, get a couple other free agents in here and win 10 games. Those are real. Those are the real takes. I guess if you disagree, that's totally fine. That's why we do this. So we can have fun dialogue about whether,

you know, how good they're going to be. I think they should be more than a six-win team. And their schedule, we've had a few people come on and talk about the schedule. I think it's pretty challenging. But there are others who think that maybe we're forgetting that they play Carolina, they play Vegas,

Tampa Bay week one, not every game is going to be super tough. So anyway, I am bringing you the one and only opinions of mine. I don't shut the camera off and then say to the wife, boy, got him again tonight. Anyway, and by the way, if you guys have been following for long enough, I mean, at one point, because none of us are afraid to upset the team. I don't know if you think that that's what's going on. I mean, at one point, if anybody remembers the code words rant from back in the day, then you'll know that that's the case.

Anthony says, time of possession will be so key for us this season. We need lots of long scoring drives to keep our defense off the field as much as possible. Yeah. You know where I think that's really important. Cause I think it's hard to say like, yes, time possession, but if you run more than are you kind of doing an inefficient thing and giving the ball back anyway, right? Where I think that's really important is when you are say up by like 10 points in the third quarter, your wind probability is like 85%, 90%. At that point, you're up at that. You get the ball back up 10 points. This happened to the Vikings. I don't know how many times or whatever, you know, touchdown, two touchdowns last year, and they'd go three and out, give the ball right back. That is what can't happen.

It's, I think when you're getting ahead and you're sustaining drives toward the end of games, they did this really well in 2019. That's where the running game comes in. And that's where the play action game really, really crushes. Wasn't it, um, was it a couple of years ago when they, they got the lions on that, where they were beating the lions and they ran a play action through it down the field. I think was it digs maybe I forget what year that was where they were beating the lions and they needed to close it out and they ran a play action, hit a big shot and ended the game that way. That's, that's what they didn't do well last year. They would come out, run for negative yards on first down,

throw short, incomplete, or pressure, punt away, three and out when you're up 10, and then the other team has their chance. That's what they're looking for when Kevin O'Connell talks about, yeah, this is why we got Josh Oliver. This is why we're going to run big personnel, get CJ Hamm out there, and things like that. I think that's what they're looking for from Madison when they're up in those games. is why we're going to run big personnel get cj ham out there and things like that so um i think

that's what they're looking for from madison when they're up in those games to be able to push forward and keep the chains moving a little bit and even if you end up running eight plays and punt the ball away at least you grinded some clock down as opposed to two incomplete passes or something like that uh from Kurt, with the competitive rebuild, does the front office opt to roll with what we've got or opt to make a big move if we lose a key player for extended time? That's a great question. I think based on what we've seen so far,

and they haven't lost anyone key so far, assuming that Makai Blackman is fine. So we don't have an answer to that. I think that based on what we've seen with them not just seeing a position group struggle and running out to the free agent market, that they would let it play out. But that might depend.

I mean, because we've seen more action this year or in recent years at the trade deadline. So let's say that, you know, you're getting rolling. You start off four and two, you're in a good place. You feel like you're the best team in the NFC North. And then somebody goes down. You might go out and trade for someone just like they did last year, even if it could potentially hurt you a little bit down the road. But if you're not giving up that first round pick that might be dedicated to a quarterback, they might do that. It's really circumstantial. I think at this moment right now, they would just grind through it

because, and we've seen that before where it was not a very good idea trading for Chris Herndon with a fourth round pick, not a very good idea. Kurt follows up with, I prefer to roll with it. Yes, I agree. I agree. I think that I would prefer to roll with it as well. So what about Bob says, did you see Cousins get killed on quarterback? I did, but I can also call up the numbers here as well. His sack percentage was not that high. He dropped back like 600 times. I think anybody who drops

back six, I'm not saying he didn't get pressure. Okay. But what, what I'm saying is that you can overcome having one bad position on the offensive line. I don't know anybody who doesn't like what, what quarterback in the league does not have a bad offensive lineman Philadelphia. Is that pretty much it? That, that doesn't have, you're right. I mean, there's, there's a lot of pressure in the NFL. There's a lot of bad offensive line play in the NFL. There's not that many guys who are good when, um, or, or, or offensive lines that are good all the way across. So, you know, cousins was pressured on 35% of his dropbacks last year. Uh, Josh Allen was pressured on 34, Patrick Mahomes, 33, you know, I mean, it's not, it's not that you don't have an opportunity on 65 of your passes to

overcome that and by the way i mean kirk cousins last year was the second best in the league in yards per attempt when pressured he was better than patrick mahomes when pressured last year in terms of yards per attempt you can overcome it i i'm not saying it doesn't hurt it does hurt but you can overcome having one bad offensive guard and for year after year that to be a constant like why don't they have any more guards why don't any more guard i know i know it's not great and part of the reason is the quarterback that brings about some of that pressure but if you end up with the 17th best offense in the league or something, I don't think I could just look at the guard and be like, oh, it's his fault because there are a lot of not great guards. Uh, Delton says they had the most

three and outs in the NFL because they had the two worst car. It's well, first of all, I mean, it's not because they it's, it really isn't because they had the guards. I mean, look, the overall pressure. My point was the overall pressure was they they were pressured. OK, it was 35 percent. That is a good amount. And a lot of that pressure is coming up the middle because almost none of it's coming from the outside. And that is a problem. It is. But when a lot of the other great quarterbacks in the league are also facing about the same

amount of pressure, I don't think it's like that absurd to say that you can overcome it. I also agree that they should have been better. I'm not defending the guard. I'm saying that sometimes we hear just over obsess with the guards and they can find ways to work through it. It should not destroy your offense. And the reason that they had a lot of three and outs is also because they had the most negative runs on first down. That's a big deal, too. And so they're trying to avoid that this year. I get, I'm just saying,

like, if you look at the pressure numbers from Kirk cousins last year, it did not destroy them last year. And it doesn't have to this year. I mean, again, second highest yards per attempt in the league when he was pressured, he took a lot of hits. You don't want him to do it again. And I'm not saying it's great. And I know you said he's a bust center. Not last year. He wasn't last year. He was a fine center here. Here's, here's how offensive line works. Okay. This has been studied. If you have the worst offensive line in the league, it's a huge deal. You get crushed. You can't operate. And we've seen that. That's 2016. If you have the best offensive line in the league, top five, you crush other people.

You can do things that nobody else can do. And again, this has been studied that in the middle of that, from like the fifth to the 20th, if you're somewhere in there, you should be able to operate that. That's about normal. And there's not like this huge advantage or this unbelievable disadvantage. And that's where the Vikings were last year by PFF that they were, and this is study with PFF numbers. So I'm not going to sit here if they end up 20th in offense or something and be like, Oh man, guard. Like, no, that means that your quarterback didn't play well or teams found a way to scheme

your coach and your receiver. And that's what I'm going to look at. Now, if Darisaw gets hurt, we might be talking about something different. So, and look, it's not to say that they're good. Okay. It's just to say that a lot of the problems with the interior pressure are because teams put all of their efforts into that and they're not getting pressured wildly more than other teams in the NFL. It's just where the pressure is coming from that really stands out.

Um, so, you know, that's, that's, that's the way I look at it. That's the way I look at it. Uh, Jay says the Delta, uh, the Delta, the data says guards are the issue. Yeah. Can they overcome?

They didn't. And the fan base is clearly concerned because Casey is the data guy. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, did they, so here's the thing.

When you draft, you draft Ed Ingram in the second round, and again, this is not me saying I believe Ed Ingram will be great, but you are more apt in a situation such as this, where you're trying to find out who can play in the future, if he can play. And you, having just seen Garrett Bradbury have his best year a couple years into his career, you have to give some of these guys time. There's examples all over the league of guys who were really bad in their first years as rookies. DJ Humphries is a guy who was a tackle. Colton Miller is a tackle. There's a number of players.

If you look up rookie guys where they ranked in pass blocking, and then you go into a situation as Ingram, and again, not defending him, you go into a situation where you have two great tackles, which means everybody's attacking these guards, especially with the fact that they're inexperienced or that especially Ingram was inexperienced. So he's going to give up a lot of pressures. But you also know that it's not like it's surprising to you. It's not that it's surprising to the quarterback, to the head coach, the person who's drawn up the scheme. You have to figure out a way to work around it. Every team in the NFL outside of about five has

a weakness somewhere on their offense. But all I'm saying is that it's not an excuse for why your offense can't be great. You need to find a way to overcome that. And I don't also look at it as some massive general manager failure for the last regime I do. And it's different though, because this is a different approach. So if we were going into this season where it's all in and look last year, actually last year, this is a different approach. So if we were going into this season where it's all in, and look, last year, actually last year, this is a different criticism. Last year, you can absolutely criticize them for that,

and I would agree with you. Because why did you draft a guard to take on all this tough competition throughout the season? Quinn and Williams, Dexter, Lawrence. Why do you draft a guard in the second round, back end of the second round, with no parachute behind him? You cut Jesse Davis or trade him for nothing to Pittsburgh. You never try Chris Reed there.

I would agree with that criticism. But when you've decided as a team, as an organization, that what you're going to do is you're going to give the young players all the chances in the world to figure it out, then that's what they're doing at guard, even if I don't completely believe it's going to work, but that's what they're doing. So I look at that as much less of a criticism this year than I did last year, where they got solutions and then never used them for other guards. And the other point is, just to keep going back to it, there are way more clean pocket dropbacks for Kirk Cousins than there are.

And we're bringing up the Netflix series. Like, that's weird to me. You guys all watch the season, I'm thinking, right? So, yeah. Anyway, it's nuanced, as we try to do on the show. It's nuanced. It's complicated. It's not a simple, why didn't you do a thing? I'm waving my fist at you. There's a lot to it. If they were all in on this year, if they had reworked contracts, brought back Thielen,

Kendricks, everybody, signed Jadavion Clowney, they're all in. They're running it back. Here we go. And they ran out the same guards. I would be right there with you. But that wasn't the plan. The plan is to figure out who can play. So you got to figure out. But I also think sometimes what happens, and this is over many years now of covering the team and talking with you guys, fans, for many years now of covering the team and talking with you guys fans for for many years sometimes what we do is we make one person the whipping boy of the team where everything that happens regarding that person is just like the worst thing in the entire world like every every rep that doesn't go their way is just, oh my gosh, this

person's ruining the whole season. And that does get frustrating to talk about because it's just piling on and piling on and piling on. And if there will be plenty of opportunity to overcome, if there's some pressure on Kirk cousins, pressure will always happen to Kirk cousins because he holds onto the ball, which is another thing. I should look at that as well. Like how long did he hold onto the ball? That matters as well. Kirk Cousins was 13th in terms of snap to release. So that's going to draw some pressure, 2.7 seconds. It's going to, it's going to draw some pressure. He also, this is a funny stat. I love these stats. You guys know his time to scramble, which means how long was he in the pocket before he ran away,

was 5.8 seconds, which was the third longest in the league, meaning that he does not run away. So you have a quarterback who holds onto the ball, who stays in the pocket, who's going to draw some pressure, overcome it, figure it out. All right. Anyway, that's what, that was fun. It was fun. Lots to talk about as always. So again, this is an interesting thought, Anthony O'Connell needs to cut down on the long

developing receiver routes. See that it is hard because the long routes are successful when you have Justin Jefferson, but options there. And we were talking about TJ Hockinson. I think the second half of the year. Now this would be interesting to look into. This is why the data can be really fun and maybe we can figure this out, but I'd be curious if the second half of the season he got beat up as much as he did in the first half. When did they get Hockinson? Maybe week 10? I wonder if he got

pressured less after that because it felt like he just had a guy to go to in TJ Hockinson. Or if he had the ball less. I'm going to look this up before we go. Just because I can. Let's see. You know what? Nope, didn't change at all. He was still pressured 36% of the time. But interesting to look.

I agree with you in general that there just needs to be options. Whether it's pass protection. Whether you're finding ways to help the interior, that has to be addressed more than it was last year. There's only so much you can change when it comes to a scheme throughout the year, but in the summer you can. So they've got to implement ways to help the interior, whatever that might be. Even if it's somebody in motion or somebody in the backfield, I don't know, something, figure it out. And with Cousins, he's going to have to get rid of the ball quicker sometimes than maybe he wants to, or even that Kevin O'Connell wants him to

when the pressure is coming. He also made a lot of great throws when the pressure is coming. And this is one of the best things about him, right? Is that he stands in there and takes a shot sometimes and makes a play. So that's the whole point. And I also would not based on what I've seen in camp, change my projection, which kind of dials back to the, what do I really think? Well, I really think they should win 10 games. I don't know if I'll be right because I never know what's going to go right or wrong throughout a season, just like none of us do. That's why I don't gamble, but I am going to Vegas. It's funny how that works, but that's why I'm not a big gambler because I don't know how it's going to play out. I've seen it go either way. I thought

that 2021 team was going to be good and they weren't because Mike Zimmer, Kirk couldn't get along and the games they couldn't finish, you know, things like that. So, yeah, I, I do agree with you though that the tight end blocking should help them to some extent. All right. Any of you in Minneapolis, you want to come say hello in inbound brewing, inbound brewing. Remember it's by target field.'s uh very cool place tomorrow night six to nine o'clock i will do my best to see if we can figure out a way to stream it but i'm not really sure technologically if not uh jonathan and i are still going to do a hot routes episode

for tomorrow night that'll be on the channel so we'll be doing that we're going to record that early in the day so you know but uh if you got a chance to come out, we're going to play an immaculate grid contest kind of based on the show. We're going to have you pick the schedule, surprises to give away, stuff like that. So inbound brewing, make sure you check it out. 20 seconds, six o'clock is when it starts. Seven o'clock is when I started doing the live podcasts. Maybe I'll bring the setup. Now you guys are very split on the setup. Some, some of you have said, I need to make more changes. It's always a work in progress, but I kind of like, all right, great stuff, guys. Really appreciate all the energy tonight and you guys bring it every night. So we will see you again very soon. Football.