Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is Josh Dobbs going to be benched???

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Matthew Coller and Brian Murphy talk about Kevin O'Connell's comments, which sound like he's strongly considering benching Josh Dobbs and why the wind came out of the Vikings' sails against the Bears Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider going live here on YouTube a little earlier in the day than usual. One, it's the bye week, and the other thing is Brian Murphy is able to do the show in this hour, so he is going to join in about 15 minutes. And look, anytime you can get live Murph after a loss, you got to take advantage of that. So let's begin the show with, I guess it's a news item today that Kevin O'Connell was noncommittal again, even after going back and watching the game. When he talked to us today about Josh jobs and his status, when the Vikings come out of the bi-week to play the Las Vegas Raiders. And I want to get to a tweet that was sent to me, not just about the quarterback situation, but kind of about what

last night and the loss to the Chicago Bears meant in the bigger picture. So this was from Angela on Twitter, who listens to the show and is one of the most reasonable human beings on Twitter. She said, regarding whether it's good that the Vikings lost. So last night I asked Dane Mizutani, the Pioneer Press, was it good that the Vikings lost because they got slapped in the face with reality that they're not really a playoff team, not really a contender with a backup quarterback and the season probably wasn't going anywhere anyway. A very cynical question, but she said, I now have realistic expectations for the rest of the season after getting my hopes up. I'm back to viewing this as one big preseason with an eye on 2024. And I really didn't think of this so much until later after the game, I got home, did some more work, and then woke up

this morning and started thinking about just where the Vikings are and what it meant last night to lose that game. Because after a game happens, my main focus is, all right, so whose fault is it that they lost? How did this happen? What did the players say? What does the coach think? What are the implications? And then it's only after the dust has settled that I start to think about, well, what does this mean for how this season is viewed? And one trend of this season has been just how wild the swings of emotion are, right? So you start off 0-3.

Season's over. We've all got the stats. We all read the stats. Season's over. Good night, everybody. Let's start thinking about the draft. Same with 1-4. And when they lose to Kansas City, all right, this is just a mess of a season,

just a Jefferson's hurt, total disaster. And then they start to win some games. Kirk Cousins starts to play really well. They beat the San Francisco 49ers. Whoa, that's a real contending team. Now the Vikings look dangerous and Cousins is playing some of his best football that he's ever played as a Viking.

They go to Lambeau, halfway through the game, they're crushing the Packers. Jordan Love looks terrible. Kirk Cousins is playing another great game. Oh, this team's coming. The defense is coming together. They're rolling. They're surviving Jefferson's loss. Here they come. Kirk Cousins gets hurt. It's over. Good night. Unless Tom Brady shows up here. See ya. Not getting, not making the playoffs. No chance. Then Josh Dobbs wins two games in a row off the bench. And now it's Case Keenum time.

Now it's Jeff George time. Now it's Wade Wilson time and all the other backup quarterbacks who have shown up here and taken the Vikings to the playoffs. And the loss in Denver was a weird place to exist because I felt like the Vikings outplayed the Denver Broncos and came out of that game, even looked back at the all 22 film, looked back at it. If you've seen any of the film pieces we've done with Bobby Peters, who's a football coach, and he watched it back and he said, I don't, I don't see any reason why this should fall off the face of the earth, which of course is famous last words. If you ever follow the Vikings, which of course is famous last words.

If you ever follow the Vikings, because you think, you know, what's going to happen next. And then they fall off the face of the earth with four interceptions. Not just that lots of three and outs struggling to move the football, Josh Dobbs, the words rhythm and timing continue to come up over and over from Kevin O'Connell. So the timing to the offense is all completely off and messed up. And now people like Angela who are tweeting me are feeling very much that way of, all right, looks like that was just sort of a flash in the pan. And now if they make the playoffs, okay, but it's hard to get too excited about the rest of this season. And I think that the nail in the excitement coffin would be going to Nick Mullins as the starting quarterback. That doesn't mean I think it's the wrong decision because the explanation from Kevin O'Connell seemed to be really setting us up for this.

Like, prepare yourselves for Nick Mullen season, everybody, at least the way he talked sounded that way because he talked in depth about how important it was to have the timing of the offense. He talked about in the NFL, the passing game is so tight and so precise. And it's, it's really difficult to be on time with everything. And you need somebody who can do that, which Josh Dobbs did not do that last night at all. His rhythm and timing was way off for the entire night. Nick Mullins has played for Kyle Shanahan before he won some games for Kyle Shanahan before. And I don't think that they're going to look at Jaron Hall as the, as like, Oh, we need to look at the future quarterback. Now

it's more of a panic mode to try to make the playoffs for Kevin O'Connell than it would be. Let's see what this young guy has. So I know a lot of people want Jaron Hall to play in my estimation. I'd be very surprised if he's in consideration, if you're benching Dobbs, you're going to Nick Mullins. And if that falls apart, then at the end of the season, you're playing Jaron Hall just to get him some experience. But I think that we're really talking about when it's all the discussion is about the timing of the offense, that it's entirely about Dobbs versus Nick Mullins. And they have to go back and look at the tape, I guess, to see if maybe it wasn't as bad

as it looks in real time. It probably was though. I mean, you don't have a game like that when it's not as bad. So there is this question though about Kevin O'Connell himself and whether he tried to put too much on Josh Dobbs. Now, I wouldn't have said that last week against the Denver Broncos because it felt like the offense was working. Okay.

Not great. He was pressured a little more in that game. But they put up almost 400 yards of offense. It was hard to complain about how they played against the Denver Broncos overall offensively outside of the turnovers that ended up costing them to lose. But it feels like Kevin O'Connell wants when Justin Jefferson returns to be able to implement his entire offense, which is all built on footwork, getting to the right spots at the right time, hitting those windows, creating separation one-on-one matchups for receivers and having the quarterback make the right decision.

And if you put it in the area, then Justin Jefferson is going to be able to catch it. That was a big discussion for O'Connell today when he talked about how much Jefferson will factor into the quarterback decision. Seemed like the answer was actually a lot because guess what? They're going to throw to Justin Jefferson a lot. So that's what makes me lean toward

thinking that Josh Dobbs will be benched. And I think it comes back to O'Connell wanting to be able to run his offense, knowing that his passing game works and knowing that when it's done correctly, it looks like Kirk versus San Francisco, Kirk versus the Green Bay Packers. But there's also a part of me that hesitates a little bit and says, shouldn't you work around Josh Dobbs and his skillset rather than asking him to just do everything in this offense? Doesn't that give you a higher ceiling or a higher chance of success

than it would to have Nick Mullins try to play the role of Kirk Cousins. Now, I don't know the answer to that, but last night felt like Kevin O'Connell was putting in his whole offense and asking Josh Jobs to be a pocket quarterback who could do everything there. And the Bears got no credit from the Vikings players or coaches, but I will give them credit. And Montez Sweat specifically, that was the most pressures I believe Brian O'Neill has ever allowed in that game to Montez Sweat. Maybe there's some players like O'Neill who need a week off here, but Montez Sweat dominated that game.

They were able to keep Josh Jobs in the pocket, but there also wasn't really any attempts to move him too much out of the pocket, but there also wasn't really any attempts to move him too much out of the pocket. There were a few play actions, a little bit of a rollout that got blown up by the bears. And that was really it. And the other part is, can you simplify some of the things that you're trying to do offensively? And they've pushed back against that. Kevin O'Connell has pushed back against that. And so has Wes Phillips. The idea that, well, can you simplify it for Josh Dobbs? And they've said, no, we need to have a complete game plan

in order for him to get the benefits of these open receivers and everything else. And that's all fine and good, but it also is probably going to go wrong at some point, having Josh Dobbs sit in the pocket and try to fully operate that offense. So I think when they come out of this bye week, it'll probably be Nick Mullins because that just feels like someone who can operate what Kevin O'Connell wants him to do better. It's very McVeigh or Shanahan ish of him to just want a quarterback where you can plug in the game plan and he will go throw to the right spots rather than someone who is going to need to freelance and need to

make crazy plays in order to succeed. The ceiling here is probably higher with Josh Dobbs, but the execution more consistently could be there with Nick Mullins. So that looks like what it's going to be. But if you're talking about an excitement from fans, there could remain some excitement if Josh Dobbs came out of the break and won two games and ran around and made plays. And then we go back to, hey, it was only a couple weeks ago. We're talking about bridge quarterback here. You go to Mullins.

This is a pure backup. This is not anyone in consideration for the starting position down the road. That's where you kind of go. All right. Well, we know what the ceiling of the entire season is as opposed to feeling like maybe if this guy stays on a heater that it could be dangerous. So, uh, happy to accept your comments in the comment section about what they should do at quarterback. And feel free to blame anybody you want on the offensive side because you probably will end up being right. So do that.

And I'm going to welcome in Brian Murphy to the show. Hold on. Let me get this right. There we go. Brian Murphy. Talk about somebody who's been on a heater writing reaction columns to these games over the last, you know, what are we on? 12 weeks here. Murph, I think that game last night, if you've watched Vikings football for a long time, was foreseeable just because Bears.

And the Bears played really well defensively against O'Connell's offense before. And when they went to Soldier Field, Dobbs felt like he was bound to have one of these games. That is what made him a backup quarterback for his entire career. But when we talk about taking the wind out of the sails, that was as much of a deflating loss from where they were just a couple weeks ago, as I can remember. I mean, I think people were legitimately excited about Dobbs and the position they were in to go down the stretch, the playoffs, the weak NFC, the weak schedule, and to lose two games that everybody thought they should have won in the way that they did, giving the ball away constantly, the offense looking miserable.

Kevin O'Connell does not truly understand when to run the ball and when to not run the ball away constantly, the offense looking miserable. Kevin O'Connell does not truly understand when to run the ball and when to not run the ball. I mean, he just kept punching that pass button over and over again and letting Josh Dobbs suffer. And I mean, it was as discombobulated of a game as I have ever seen them play. Yeah. I mean, you would have been better off doing anything else other than sitting there for three hours watching that game, other than maybe, let's say, the last five or six minutes when it actually did resemble an NFL football game, and when you did see Dobbs step up and deliver a strike to TJ Hawkinson in the end zone, and you're thinking, boy, just slather

a little more lipstick on this pig, get off to your bye, go flush the bad memories of this, you're 7-5, and then go to Vegas and make some hay. But then, you know, as is wont to happen when you leave yourself this margin for error in any game against any team in this league, you have a, you know, you force a second turnover, a fumble, you have the ball in Chicago territory, and you basically run one play up the gut, another play up the gut, and then, you know, a horizontal screen pass, I think, for a net gain or that whole series was about negative one, which was indicative of O'Connell saying, look,

I don't trust Dobbs right now, even though he just delivered what could have been the game winning score. The totality of this game, I don't trust him to make a play. We're going to have to go run and earn that first down. And then they didn't. And then they take the delay of games to move Ryan Wright back five yards. He has one job to do, and that is pin the Bears as deeply as you can

and make fields go as far as he needs to. And he shanks a 25-yard punt. So, you know, one strike, one quick field strike, one quick run. They're at midfield. Clock tick, tick, tick. But, you know, they get some big plays. They get some pressure. Third and 10, he has all day to throw. You've got a defensive line that is completely gassed because, of course, they've been doing all the rowing all game long because the offense couldn't do anything. And I think you had Brian Flores actually getting a little bit gun-shy as well, and you had both coaches sort of in their fourth quarter, let's go win this game moments, taking a step back and almost coaching not to lose, and that's a very pejorative thing to say, but I think it's pretty obvious that

they didn't want to make a mistake or force a mistake, and they basically let NFL players, you know, as bad as Chicago is, they're going to make plays if you let them hang around long enough. And, you know, the reality is other than maybe Carolina, there's really no other team that the Vikings would have been in this game for much longer than the first quarter anyway. I mean, that was as awful a performance as you're going to find in the first half. And the fact that they got out with a 3-3 tie was quite amazing, but really nothing, nothing really positive. One thing we do know for sure, I think, is that Dobbs, the myth of

Josh Dobbs is just that. It's a myth. He has potential. It's one thing to come into a huddle straight out of the cornfield, you know, like Shoeless Joe, with no expectations and a desperate team and an ill-prepared defense and, you know, chop away at a couple of wins. But when NFL teams have weeks to prepare, they're going to find a journeyman quarterback's vulnerabilities and exploit them. And that's going to be the case going forward. So I'm sure we'll get into which of the three are going to find a journeyman quarterback's vulnerabilities and exploit them. And that's going to be the case going forward. So I'm sure we'll get into which of the three are going to get the nod in Vegas. But if anything, if the Vikings are going to crawl and scratch and find their way into the playoffs with nine wins, maybe 10, although that seems unlikely at this point, it's going to be on the back of their defense. And I don't know how much they're going to have left five more games to have to

really carry that load. But we know where this offense is now. Again, the return of Jefferson, we can get into that too, does change the dynamic a bit, but it seems clear to me that this is as much Brian Flores' team right now as it is Kevin O'Connell's. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year, but if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com, and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six player stat projections, and that's it.

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You can turn $10 into $250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepix.com slash PURPLE. The code PURPLE. Daily fantasy sports made easy. So when it comes to the quarterback decision, there's like three different ways you could look at this with the three different quarterbacks. One way is, look, Josh Dobbs has shown how good he can be.

And the good version of Josh Dobbs, and this isn't just this game. You go back to Arizona, look at the game he played against Dallas. Dallas, one of the best teams in the NFL, legit Super Bowl contender. And he played incredibly well against them. The Saints had a top 10 defense when the Vikings played him. We can't ignore that. Like he played really well.

He played on time. He threw the ball well. And I would even argue that he was solid against Denver with some mistakes mixed in and it wasn't as sharp, but we've seen the far ends of both where he looks like a starting quarterback and he's making plays. And Kevin O'Connell's going like this after an incredible touchdown run. And then we see the other side of it, which is you can't score. You can't play here. Tommy DeVito looks better for the New York giants. This is awful, right?

Uh, then there's Nick Mullins, who I think is pulling out your four iron and trying to just hit it down the middle. And so it's just, let's get a guy who could just get that thing. 220 yards. Let's hope it's not in the woods, not in the water. It's, you know, did you meet yourself? I did, but the Vikings are playing a 550 yard hole right now.

I know. And so that's the thing, right? Like if you want to be dangerous to anybody, you probably have to have a quarterback who can do what Dobbs can do physically, which is to make plays. And he did that in the first three games that kind of changed the math on how teams had to play him and showed that high end. And then there's Jaron Hall. Now, if you're trying

to make the playoffs, there's really no argument to play Jaron Hall. I mean, he was in there for one drive, but didn't have a great preseason, didn't have a great training camp. Every time Kevin O'Connell's asked about him, it's like, well like well you know Jaron's doing a great job for us but uh you know and so forth however if you're in the mode of let's evaluate let's look at the future who's going to be here and everything else and you don't believe that there's any point to either one of these quarterbacks then you like Jaron Hall so which one of those verticals do you fall under Murrr? Well, I'm of the thinking that, yeah, you're either going to see what you have in Hall because you drafted him and you may be looking at him medium to longer term. But if you're looking for, boy, I don't, I don't, Nick Mullins is a guy and it's really

a safe pick. And if you're saying defense, go win it. We're going to protect the football and score 12 points or 14 points. Then maybe you go Nick Mullins. But I, if that, if, if that's the route you're going to take, then what's the point of having Jaron Hall on the roster? But I guess, you know, maybe what do you do in Vegas? Because at this point you're 6-6.

You come out of the bye. You've got more time to evaluate, more time to prepare, more time to get healthy. Jefferson's back in the lineup. The Raiders, I hate to say, are a beatable team because the Broncos were a beatable team, it seemed. Certainly the Bears are a beatable team at home. So all bets are off.

If you take care of business in Vegas with Dobbs, then you stick with Dobbs. If Dobbs goes and falls apart in Vegas, then I think you go with the kid. Because at that point, you're probably looking at a developmental situation. I mean, it's just so bizarre the position they find themselves in. I mean, who'd have thunk by December 1st, they'd be evaluating these three guys as any kind of an option, either short-term, medium-term, or long-term. It's interesting that, you know, O'Connell did say, you know, all options are on the table today. I didn't hear his press conference, but reading the Twitter traffic, that seemed to be the message. So if anything, it buys him some

time publicly to really dive into the playbook, what he's already seen Hall do, what he's already seen Mullins do, what he's already seen Dobbs do. And really find a way to craft a scheme. Again, you can't retool everything, but maybe really get into the playbook, take a breath and find out what's the best opportunity with the best person that we can do, that we can put together while riding our defense to nine slash 10 wins. That's where you're at. Let me tell you what I heard in O'Connell's press conference. What I heard was him giving answers.

And what I saw was with his words, him sketching a picture of Nick Mullins and showing it to us is what it felt like it was because everything that he talked about was being able to execute on the rhythm and timing. He probably said it 23 times. It might become a meme at some point, like the rhythm and timing, rhythm and timing. Josh Dobbs is not a rhythm and timing quarterback. He is going to be after four rooms. Right, right. And probably never. That's just probably not who he's going to be. He is not a hit-the-back-foot-deliver. He is more of a, if he's got the pass protection,

which he did not against Chicago, the offensive line had, I think, one of the worst games, if not their worst game of the year. Maybe Philly, but probably that one was the worst. That was expected in Philly. This was not. Exactly. Yes, exactly. But if he's got time and his receiver

breaks open, he can deliver an accurate enough pass for that thing to happen. And if the rush is around him a little, he can step up and create a little extra time to find somebody again, but they have to be open. If you are expecting anticipation throws, like you would see from Kirk cousins, where the guy is just coming out of his route and he's letting it go. And the ball's it's Joe Montana flying through the air as the guy comes right into his route and catches it. That's just not going to happen. It's not going to happen with four weeks of work.

It's not going to happen with 40 weeks of work with that quarterback. The question is though, even if Nick Mullins can do that, he doesn't have Dobbs's arm. He's got a pretty weak arm for an NFL quarterback. And it's kind of like Kelly Holcomb, if people remember him back in the day, where I think that the guy is really smart and can master an offense and can execute it well enough, but there's a very limited ceiling on this thing. I think what O'Connell is thinking is if we can get Jefferson into his routes, he'll be open.

Mullins knows where to throw it, how to throw it, knows the details of the offense, and he's going to give us the best chance to win. The question is whether, whether a actually does give you the best chance to win, to have someone with such physical limitations, but also whether there's any point to trying to pick which one of these, they're all the same thing. They're just different versions of the same thing. And I want to throw this out there for you, Murph, because the early part of my career, I spent ranting and raving like a complete psychopath about.

And that's different now. Yeah, I know. Right. Let me go. But Doug Marone, Rex Ryan, who the heck was before him,

Chan Gailey. And you know what it was? They all looked like the dumbest coaches on earth. Couldn't believe how silly they looked. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick. It was EJ Manuel. It was Tyrod Taylor. And I think that coaches get made to really look silly when they have decisions like this

to be made. So I've seen a ton of criticism for Kevin O'Connell. I agree with some of it, but I also think this is like life when your quarterback goes down. So how much criticism should be there for O'Connell coming out of that game in your mind? Well, some, I mean, I pointed out some of the, I thought the, you know, he decided to go for it. Was it fourth and seven earlier in the game? That seemed debatable. That seemed like you should have been punting there.

So if you're aggressive then and then you're not aggressive on fourth down after your defense comes up with the second forced fumble in the last six minutes, here's your chance to ice the game. You can't get a play-action pass. You can't get something downfield to move the sticks and drain the clock. We're going to run it up the gut twice, and we're going to throw it horizontally as a screen path which by the way looked you know on television uh like that was going to be a pick six as well so that's you know that that to me was i think you even wrote this line today you know he didn't know whether to pump the gas or pump

the brakes he was just caught in that in between so So that I think he should get dinged for. You know, look, I think they wanted to move the pocket more and get Dobbs out on rollouts. Yeah, that would have been convenient, but Chicago also knew that. And every defense now is going to know that. They are going to contain that edge as much as they can, because if you can collapse the pocket, Dobbs has nowhere to go. And he had, you know, he had happy feet. He had panicked arm during the headlights. I mean, that's what's going to happen when you've got, you know, six guys caving in on you. And until you can, you know, beat that, you're going to face a lot of that. So, and, you know, look, sweat makes

Chicago that much more dangerous on the line too. I mean, they're a mess offensively, but they're not a horrible defensive team. Certainly not on the pass rushing aspect. All that being said, I think you're dealing with a situation where he's now contemplating a third quarterback in about six weeks. There aren't too many NFL coaches. I mean, look what Bill Belichick's doing with three quarterbacks in New England, and this is the greatest of all time. So there's no handbook. There's no roadmap for navigating the quarterback conundrum the Vikings find themselves in while they're competitively rebuilding, while they have teased their fans by going out and

making a move at the trade deadline to replace your franchise quarterback, who, by the way, may not be here next year. I mean, there's so many plates spinning right now, which always seems to be the case with this team. A lot of it's self-inflicted. Most of this is out of their control. It's entertaining as hell, but it's exhausting for somebody to stand there and spin those plates, and O'Connell's spinning a lot of them right now. The bye, as late as it is, might have benefited them a few weeks ago, but it is incredibly important right now where they are mentally, physically, how fragile they are, and how tenuous this season is.

But the fact that we're still talking after 12 games that the Vikings are right at 500, we kind of felt like that's where they would be most of the time. I figured most of the preseason prognostications were eight to nine wins, sort of in that realm. It's an incredibly long and winding road they're taking to get there. Certainly not a straight line, starting with 0-3 and 1-4 and Jefferson and Cousins and Dobbs. And it's just, I mean, you just can't keep track of it all. And you've got heightened expectations, doom and gloom, all mixed together, long-term, short-term, but it's the most important position in sports. And the Vikings have the most uncertainty going right now of a major

playoff contender. And I don't know how any veteran head coach is supposed to handle that with dexterity. And so O'Connell's learning on the fly. And I will say this, I think what O'Connell's going through this fly and and I will say this I think what O'Connell's going through this season compared to what he skated through last year will benefit him long term and it should benefit the franchise long term for him to be able to spin all these plates they may come crashing down but he just the the experience he's getting, the highs that he had last year, the disappointment in the postseason, and the roller coaster we've just described is all going to give him scar tissue that may pay off in Vegas.

It may pay off a couple games against Detroit at the end of the year. It may pay off one or two years from now with an entirely different quarterback. But I think it will pay off. So he can take the heat, and he's shown he can take the heat. He's not getting defensive. He's not, you know, collapsing into himself and lashing out. I think that's the sign of a mature leader as well compared to the previous regime where, I mean, this would have fallen apart five weeks ago.

So I feel like he's in a position where he's getting some of the benefit of the doubt, but he is going to have to get a little bit more creative depending on which army picks. And he's just going to have to be a little bit more aggressive because the defense cannot be expected to hold playoff contending teams to three points in the first half, nine points total, 12 points total, you know, four field goals and be on the field for as long as they were. That's not going to be sustainable. This show is being brought to you by BetterHelp. Folks, the holidays are an exciting time for buying gifts and spending time with family, but you have to remember that sometimes the best gift is the one you can give yourself. If you're finding the holiday season tough on you, maybe the best gift is paying a

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Use the code purple50 to get 50% off. That's code purple50 at factorm factor meals.com slash purple 50. Go there today to get 50% off. Well, and so there's a lot there that I want to kind of react to. I mean, number one, what you were just talking about with O'Connell is if he won't call me during the break, I promise he won't. But if he does and ask me for advice, says, hey, Matty, you've been around a little while, what do you say?

What I would say is don't lose your mind. Just stay calm. Just go week to week. It might be a disaster. I know you're one of the most competitive people on earth because you were a former pro quarterback. They all are. And you're an NFL head coach, right?

You're a, you're a psycho and the, the fire is burning with rage after that loss, but don't go crazy. Just manage week to week. Keep everybody on the same page as much as you can. Don't go nuts in front of any cameras or anything, uh, on your press conferences or on the sideline. Don't say anything crazy. Don't go into meeting rooms and start to push buttons. You're not supposed to push. Don't alienate players, whatever that should be. You feel like he's good. You don't think that do you? No, I don't, but I've seen stronger men broken. I mean, truly, truly the NFL finds ways to make the smartest looking coaches look like complete fools. When you have a backup quarterback. I cannot say

this loud enough that think about those decisions you talked about. So I looked up the analytics on that naturally. And guess what? Both of those decisions, dead coin flip, same win percentage for going for it on fourth down on fourth and seven or punting or go or punting it away as Ryan Wright did or trying to field goal. I think it was 1% less trying a field goal. And then it was 61 yards was 1% less because Jeff or Joseph has made them in the past from 60 yards. So, so right. But yeah, look at, you know, he made it at same side, us bank stadium to win the game

against the giants. The point is that when you have a backup quarterback, who's as volatile as this, who has one of those complete stinker type of games where it looks like the guy can't play like Ryan Fitzpatrick against the Vikings in 2010, or he's just playing horribly. If anybody remembers that game, uh, good Tavares Jackson started in that game, but he's just playing terribly, right? That's what backup quarterbacks do sometimes where it just drives you crazy. But every decision you make every play you call the margin for error goes from, Hey, Kirk cousins, we'll just make a great throw on the next play to Jefferson to, Oh, that ruined your game. And now you look like a fool and that can drive

somebody absolutely mad as well. So that's number one. I would say I would pick Josh Dobbs here to keep going because when I look at the totality of Dobbs, I see one, a guy who's enough of a playmaker to even out some of the mistakes that he makes. I don't think it's going to get vastly better as far as his timing with the offense. I would suggest instead looking at everything you've used and see what works as far as what is he comfortable with and then stick to that lane rather than trying to give him the Kirk cousins game plan, which is just to me what they tried to do. And it was way too much for him to handle. And I also think that I

wouldn't take three good games and one bad game and then be like, oh, well, Dobbs is useless to get the other guy. Because I do think that Dobbs has a lot of talent. And I do think that there's a situation brewing for next year where you might want Josh Dobbs to be some sort of either backup for you. Who's reasonable for a rookie quarterback or potentially if your rookie's not ready, he can start the season.

But when you see a performance that bad, and obviously O'Connell thought there were many opportunities that it could have been better. That's a tendency to overreact, go to the bullpen, get the other guy. But the thing is, if you go back and look at Nick Mullins,

when he was with San Francisco, I think he was something like four and 12. I believe that they drafted Nick Bosa the following season in the top five draft picks after having Mullins start. So if you think, well, he could just execute the offense better. I would also kind of direct you to like Nick Mullins career. I don't know that there's anything a whole lot better there. So for me, it's either just go to the future, which you can't do when you're still in the playoff race or stick with Dobbs. But I think he's going to go with Mullins because this is how those McVay Shanahan guys are wired. Just execute my offense. That's always been the Kirk argument for all these people. If you could just execute the offense, then you can be great.

And even that has never been good enough because there's not a playmaking aspects. That's how I feel about this situation. But I also think the key is kind of just to survive the rest of this thing without having it start to implode because your season, any chance you were going to go anywhere probably ended when Kirk Cousins got hurt. Yeah. And the big picture scheme, you know, competing for, well, I think that you could make the argument that that went poof and turned to ash when they started on three. You know, I, I thought when, uh, you know, they, they couldn't beat the chargers at home. I thought this was, that's where the implosion was going to start. And it ended up being one in four. We didn't have any sense that it was only going to get worse at one point. But I understand what you're saying about Mullins,

but let's not forget as we're cooing and we're doing a lot of cooing over Josh Dobbs, he's also one in nine as a starter. And I know there's caveats there, right? Well, but he didn't know this and he's that and he's one in nine as a starter. let's just put that out there two two two murph give him credit actually well never mind the point where you talk him give him three wins he didn't he didn't start the atlanta game so three hey real quick you know what i'm an old staff from arizona that's what it is let me real quick let me help your argument here backup quarterbacks this year who didn't start the season outside of kyler murray wanted 40 i read 21 40 i read your story one and 40 this year so okay carry on carry on anyway the bar is low you know but we put it up here we put we had put it up here the moment he walked onto the field in atlanta and did what he did because it was something

we hadn't seen in this market since what Dante Culpepper maybe or anybody else that could oh the running yeah yeah the running and just you know just the the dying the possible the possible what what could be possible matching up a for a forsaken guy with a brain who you you put him with the young, hot, playmaking, ingenious, new head coach. It just, you know, as humans, we want to gravitate towards that. And we still want to gravitate towards it. You know, there may be people out there today lashing out more at Kevin O'Connell for making Josh Dobbs fail or putting him in a position to fail last night with poor coaching or poor scheme because we want to believe in the impossible. It's human nature, but he is who he is

for a reason. I mean, all these scouts, all these personnel guys, all these NFL coaches that have been looking at Dobbs for the past seven years get paid a lot of money to make smart decisions on talent and non-talent or possibility and not possibility. And yeah, he may have been shuffled around as a placeholder and a guy and maybe didn't get as much of a look as he's getting here in Minnesota, but there's a reason there's a ceiling on certain players. So it's up to us as the observing public to not be taken by emotion. And you're making the case that he's the best practical solution. He's the best practical option to get you to the playoffs. And I think a case can be made for that.

I think, but if you're looking for, you know, as you said, the guy to hit the 140 yard four iron down the middle, even if it's a 550 yard hole, he still may end up with a par because he's not putting it in the woods and he's not chunking it. And he's not, I mean, this is where, you know, Dobbs' ball security issues, which have plagued him throughout, you know, O'Connell is right to look at that and fear that. What can Nick Mullins do? Well, Nick Mullins can, you know, maybe not do that, but I don't know that he can do the other things that Dobbs can do. So to me, I feel like he gets one more shot in Vegas because that really will determine, to me, if you go to six and seven, then I think you can probably pull the pin on it

at that point. And then maybe you do, you look at, you know, you look at Hall and Dobbs in a competition at that point, and maybe you just switch them in and out in various situations, and it becomes more of a gong show, but it's been a gong show to hear now as well. I would give Dobbs one more shot because Mullins is the safe option, and safe options work if you've got a top five defense, perhaps.

The Vikings have a decent defense, but they are going to wear down here pretty soon, and that's an awful burden to place on that unit to basically say, cover up for all of our sins and let's walk out of every game with a 17 to 13 win. You know, we talk about Mullins is the safe option. So I just pulled this up. He has 17 career starts and 23 interceptions. I mean, I mean, that's ball security, right? Yeah.

Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot of shanks into the woods. Going back to my other analogy then. All right. Well, and doesn't this remind you of me playing golf, which is I can hit drives that are monsters. Is Nick Mullins an angry guy? Uh, no, uh, maybe not.

No, I, you know, I, uh, I'll drop a little cuss here and there after some shots, but normally I think I contain myself pretty well. It's, uh, it's our friend, Sam Ekstrom, who gets too down on himself when he struggles, but, uh, everybody has their own reactions to bad golf. But the point is that if I pull out the driver and swing as hard as I can, there's a decent chance that that thing goes 250 yards and is a bomb. There's a decent chance that I hit it up in the air and goes eight yards and falls right back down on me or goes in the woods or whatever. And what would you rather watch?

But yeah, of course. But then I think, well, I should pull out the four iron. I'll just play it safe. And I hit that in the woods anyway, like, and it's not any better and there's no upside. That's how I look at this. This guy has 23 picks in 17 games. I mean, he's, he does not have the arm strength to make tight windows throws. There's a reason people kept paying Kirk cousins. He's a really good quarterback and he's very hard to replace. So if you think, well, this guy kind of plays like Kirk, right, but he doesn't have the arm of Kirk and he's not going to fit those window throws and they're going to get picked anyway. So you might as well play Josh Dobbs, see what happens, see if this was just a really bad outing. That's how I feel about it.

I don't think Kevin O'Connell feels that way about it after having Nick Mullins. I also don't think it matters that much Murph. And that's the other part of this conversation is the, the, the biggest part of the wind coming out of the sails of this thing was that it would have really mattered. Like if they won that game and then there's seven and five, we're going to be going, man,

it's actually a tough decision down the stretch here. They're going to, you know, they got some games they can win or whatever, but now it's like, I don't know, man, I don't know how you can beat anybody with this. If you can't beat Denver, you can't beat the bears. And, and what it's also going to feel like too, that, that complicates this is that you wasted a really good defense. I think they are a really good defense. Daniil Hunter's playing the best football of his career right now, and you're wasting that.

And Josh Metellus has emerged as a legit star. If Josh Metellus was not a sixth-round pick who developed and he was some first-round pick that NFL draft people loved, they'd be talking about this guy endlessly and all the plays he's making this year and what a dynamic hybrid star he is on defense. Instead draft status seems to carry with you for the attention that you get, but you're wasting all of this. And Brian Flores might not even be here next year.

I was just going to say, this is probably a one-off for Brian Flores because of the job that he's doing and the manner in which he's doing it. The fact that he does have head coaching pedigree. And we've talked about this offline, you know, his lawsuit against the NFL, there's some speculation will or will that not affect, you know, impact his candidacies in January because, you know, on the one hand, it doesn't necessarily look good to blackball a guy who's suing the NFL for being essentially blackballed.

But I think his resume speaks for itself. And if the Vikings hang in this race for the next five games and do somehow get into the playoffs, I mean, he's very likely going to be getting a head coaching job. So yeah, you do mention that you waste almost a career season or it's trending toward a career season for Daniel Hunter. Now you're going to have to really pay him. You're going to lose your defensive coordinator and you're going to have to go out and figure out your quarterback situation. So the off season is going to be heavy in this market come March. But at this point, it's just a fool's errand to predict anything. I mean, I figured they would take care of business the last two weeks.

I gave them the mulligan against Denver. I figured there's no way they're going to lose last night. They get the bye. You know, Cincinnati looks awful without Joe Burrell, so that game doesn't look so daunting. You know, Green Bay, suddenly we kind of wrote them off. That New Year's Eve game, boy, there could be higher stakes for Green Bay by then we kind of wrote them off that New Year's Eve game. Boy, there could be higher stakes for Green Bay by then than there might be for Minnesota. I don't see the Vikings sweeping Detroit.

Maybe splitting is the best they can do. So, I mean, boy, three and two, you know, might get you in. Four and one seems daunting. So just hang on. Hang on as long as you can. Okay. Let me ask you this last question for you, Murph. What is a successful season for the Vikings here over these last five games? Like what in totality, what, what is the result where you would say? Cause you know, I'm going to ask you this after the final game of the year, you want to know, right? Was it, was it

worth it? Not necessarily a number. It doesn't have to be. It's whatever's in your heart. That's what I want. I'm not the Grinch. I do have a little bit of a larger heart. To me, what's successful is if they're playing against the Lions

on January 7th in Detroit for something meaningful. That, to me me is a successful season because that means you've navigated these next four games with all the uncertainty we've talked about, with the fact that they have lost huge momentum. If they are still competing for a playoff spot against the Lions and say the Lions are either, have already wrapped up the division,

but are looking for home field or looking to improve their seating in the NFC, and that is a meaningful game for them. I think that's a successful run. And if you say, is it worth it? Is it worth the maneuvers they made in October? Is it worth the shenanigans we may see with the quarterback situation and who's up, who's down? I think so because I think you owe it to your fan base.

You made the decision after Cousins went down, we're not giving up on this season. So to me, that means you got to take it all the way through. And if they don't make the playoffs either at 9-8 or 8-7, at least they were competitive to the end and made it count. That right off the cuff is what defines a successful season at this stage with what they're dealing with. So I'm conflicted on this answer because I looked at the website Tankathon. Anybody ever use this? It shows you the current draft order.

And right now the Vikings are drafting 20th. So there is a part of me, a very deep rooted part of me. it shows you the current draft order. And right now the Vikings are drafting 20th. So there is a part of me, a very deep rooted part of me. Where does 6-11 put them? Exactly. That says a successful season is moving up the tank-a-thon board. However, You were saying that before the trade deadline too, and you bought in.

Hey, I was saying that at 0-3 because it's just the reality. This team was this close to Andrew luck. They were this close to what? I mean, if they had handled it right, uh, Joe Burrow or Tua or Justin Herbert, and they chose to competitive, competitive, competitive their way out of all sorts of quarterback prospects through the years. And I don't know, maybe give something else a something else a shot but um maybe that train has also left the bus i and you should be arguing for nick wallace then right yes wow your cat does not like that opinion oh my gosh that was a very angry dog stuck down here we may have a uh a fur fur flying here in a second i got two two i got they're staring each other down so i did not know animals reacted poorly to tanking but now we know that um so she's 17 years old she's grumpy she might not have any more shots at a super bowl

she doesn't she's not interested in the draft okay well, that might be the best route there regardless, but, uh, I guess the, the point just being that if you lose every game from here on out, it's going to be really ugly. It's going to be ugly in a lot of ways for the head coach, for the players, people are going to fall apart. Uh, Justin Jefferson's not going to be in a good place and you will have failed to complete the competitive part of competitive rebuild. And you don't look like a team with as much resilience as you presented yourself as, as you were coming back from Owen three. So there is a downside to losing all those games that it's easy to just say

for me, Oh yeah, I just lose all those games. It'd be fine. But it's not fine. Usually inside the building, when you have a five game losing streak to end a season and everybody melts down. That's very, very hard.

It is completely false, by the way. Anybody in the comments saying you can't sign Justin Jefferson if you lose the next five games. Totally false. The NFL is set up for first-round draft picks to sign extensions with their teams. Check the CBA if you want more information on that. But the way I look at it is that's the obvious point is if you're trying to draft quarterback, then losing all those games, but also don't along the way, talk yourself into, actually, we have to go back to the 36 year old with the torn Achilles because you could also see

that ending up resulting. That was sort of a added bonus to Dobbs was, well, Dobbs could kind of show them what you can do without that quarterback. And I think he also showed what you can't do without that quarterback as well. So I'm, I'm very much split on this, but I'm, I'm never going to back away from the reality of all pro sports, which is if you draft players high, they're going to be better at sports. That is what it is. Right, but you can't sell tickets for that. So it's just hard. It's just hard. And now that you've gotten to this point emotionally with this roster, with this fan base, as you said,

I'm not going out there every day asking these guys questions. I would love to be out there January 4th as they're, you know, six and 10 asking, you know, what do you think about the Lions defense and trying to get a suitable answer out of anybody out there? Yeah, I did say the train has left the bus

and I'm sorry for that. That's the train had left the station or the bus had left the station, but the train can't left the bus and I'm sorry for that. That's a, the train had left the station or the bus had left the station, but the train can't leave the bus. No, the bus crashes. The train is run away. Yeah.

Something like that. Uh, there's probably a few more cliches we could work in there, but, uh, I have already kept you for quite a long time. Murph. So I appreciate you joining.

I guess we'll see what happens. I mean, we might as well offer a prediction of what we think happens. Like what is the final result here before we wrap? I think they're going to be eight and eight going into that last game. I'm just going to stick with what I was talking about here. I think there'll be eight and eight. I see them beating.

I see them beating Vegas. I see them, you know, beating either green Bay or Cincinnati and probably splitting with Detroit. So do the math. Does that get them to 9-7 or 8-9? I'm not even paying attention. But I think they play a meaningful game at Ford Field January 7th.

If you win the next two games against backup quarterbacks and then at least get one out of the three against Detroit and Green Bay, then you've got a pretty good shot for the playoffs. We were writing off that New Year's Eve game, and I think that may be as critical, if not more, than perhaps the season finale against Detroit. And look, I mean, if the other team only has to score 12 points, then you're going to probably play with some fire there.

So anyway, all right. Well, thanks, thanks everybody who jumped on in the middle of the day here to watch thank you murph and a very pleasant scene you've got going on there with the christmas tree and everything else uh the bye week will that looks beautiful uh the bye week will not stop the content this week so we'll have tuesday morning left guard which actually we'll be doing on Wednesday, push back a day. Manny Hill and I will be here Thursday night and we will go from there with lots of discussion of what it all means and we'll carry forward. So I'm looking forward to Vegas. We're both going to be in Vegas. We will, we will, we will be at circa Las Vegas, by the way, which you can join us.

If you go to circa Las Vegas website, there's a party Friday night. I'll be there and we'll be doing a podcast from there. So, all right. Appreciate everybody watching. Thank you, Murph. And we will catch you all next time. All right.

Take care.