Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is Keenum and Diggs versus the Vikings really a revenge game?

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

Matthew Coller and Will Ragatz break down whether the Minnesota Vikings should be considered underdogs against the Buffalo Bills if Josh Allen doesn't play. Where both teams are strong and weak could define the matchup and what would have happened if Justin Jefferson wasn't the return for the Stefon Diggs trade? Was Will on board in 2018 with letting Keenum go?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

from a hotel room in Williamsville, New York, Matthew Collar here, Purple Insider. Will Raggett's back in Minnesota, has not flown out to Buffalo yet to cover this here football game between the Minnesota Vikings and Buffalo Bills. And Will, it looks more and more like Josh Allen is not going to play. Another day on Thursday of not practicing. They're still calling it day-to- day. He had something on his elbow. I I'm just having a lot of trouble seeing it and seeing it as any sort of smart move, but you know, on the plane, I was watching get up on ESPN

and Mike Greenberg called it the biggest story in football right now, whether Josh Allen was going to play this weekend. So your thoughts. I think it is a big story. I mean, you look at the week 10 slate and this is clearly the marquee game. There's not a lot of other good games. I don't know if there's any other game where two teams have a winning record. I think there's a few of the teams with winning records are on buys. So yeah, it's a massive game. There's storylines on both sides.

The bills are trying to hold on to that number one seed, which we know how important that is for them with losing to the chiefs in the playoffs the last two years on the road. And the Vikings are trying to prove to people that they're legit. And like, that doesn't matter on the one hand, like the Vikings don't care if they're seven and one, how people view them or how they're winning these games. But I mean, we cover the NFL. We're talking about the narratives.

It's a real thing. Like people nationally don't necessarily believe the Vikings have shown that much or accomplished that much so far. And there's probably some validity to that when you look at how they've been winning these games and who they've been winning them against. So that part of it is a little bit disappointing. Like, I personally just want to watch Josh Allen play and see the Vikings defense tested against one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which is a little disappointing.

But the Vikings offense will still be tested against a really good defense. So there's still going to be plenty of intrigue here. Case Keenum, that whole storyline playing against his former team, Stefan digs as well. If it does end up being case Keenum. So yeah, still going to be fun either way.

It's still going to be a big game, but it loses a tiny bit of the, the luster and the shine. If Josh Allen is not playing. Yeah, no, there, I mean,

there's no question. It loses a lot of it. A tiny bit is, is an understatement. it loses quite a bit yeah i mean especially from the vikings perspective and i think that this was the week where the whole no one's talking about us thing really changed where all of the sudden they were the team that was getting talked about of course josh allen being hurt takes center stage of this game and whether he's going to play because it's Case Keenum against his old team and everything else. And the Bills have been talked about really since day one as a Super Bowl contender. But suddenly those power rankers, they started to rank the Vikings just the same way the standings are, which always happens with power rankings no matter what, which is why power rankings in the season are senseless.

But that's not the point. The point is that Cousins doing the thing without the shirt and the chains and all those sorts of stuff, they started to catch the national attention because like, oh, look, it's a different Kirk Cousins. All of a sudden, it looks like his team's embracing him and all those things. And oh, by the way, they're 7-1

and they have a million game lead on their division. So I think this was the week where the expectations from the outside, from the national media, started to take hold, which is why it felt like it was going to be the perfect measuring stick for them to go to Buffalo. And you mentioned it, that the look-ahead line was like 9.5. So nobody in Vegas was believing in the Vikings being able to go on the road to Buffalo and play against them. And then all of a sudden we get this backup quarterback situation. And the way I look at it,

Will, is with Case Keenum in there, I think these teams are exactly even. I don't know what the line says, and it's probably pushing a little toward Buffalo still because just of the fact, if they think Keenum's going to play, if even Vegas books are doing lines for this game when they're not sure who's going to play, but if it's Keenum, I think it's a slight edge to Buffalo because of the home field advantage, but you know, they've got a roster that's pretty banged up. They've got some shortcomings as well past Stefan digs. Who's their next best weapon. Naeem Hines, you know,

it was acquired last week. They drafted a running back in James Cook who hasn't done a whole lot and they've really missed somebody like Cole Beasley or Emmanuel Sanders they just haven't had secondary options outside of Stefan Diggs Dawson Knox their tight end has not played particularly well so far but they also have a lot of talent still on the defensive line they have one of the best defenses in the league they have a really really good coach and and I think that you can make the same sort of case for the Vikings where you could say, well, they've got this, but they don't have that. And on any given week, they can kind of win or

lose and everything's gone their way. And with Buffalo, I feel like if Case Keenum is their quarterback, this is a very even matchup. I agree. I think looking up and down the roster, the bills have a lot of talent on the defensive side. They also have some injury concerns on that side as well. Jordan Poyer, the all pro safety last year was, I believe he missed last week and might not play this week. He has an elbow thing as well. They've got some other guys, but still, I mean, even if they're missing a few pieces, like Matt Milano should be back this week. He's a great linebacker. Von Miller is 33 years old and still looks like one of the best pass rushers in the league is seven sacks, 30 ish pressures this year. Like, and then just the coaching, Leslie Frazier, Sean McDermott,

it's a really well coached defense. It's kind of a similar defense to the one the Vikings run in that it's a lot of too high. They're not going to blitz you a ton. They're going to, they're going to let their front four win and then rush four or five. And those guys are going to have success. And then you have a lot of resources to allocate to coverage. And like they do things fairly simply. I mean, they can, they can change up the looks obviously like the Vikings do, but it's just that they executed at a really high level. And that's going to be a challenge for this Vikings offense that has been so good to start

these games. The opening scripts from Kevin O'Connell have been brilliant and they drive down and they take the lead and it's, oh, maybe this week they'll pull away. And then every week they disappear. The second quarter, the third quarter in particular, they're minus 33 point differential on the season. I don't have any idea what the reason for that is, but they've been terrible in the third quarter.

And then something clicks and they figure it out in the fourth quarter and they find a way to get it done. So if it was going to be Josh Allen, that was going to be really, really interesting to me. Like would the magical Vikings play every game to one score with that play out? Or would it be a similar Eagle situation the one time this year uh where the vikings have really gotten punched in the mouth and and and beaten badly i mean beaten at all they have one loss like so i was curious to see what that was going to be uh the the bills have a second in the league in interceptions this year behind only the eagles who picked off cousins three times so yeah i mean it's still going to be an interesting matchup when the Vikings have the ball but with Case Keenum in there it's like you think about 2017 Case Keenum and he was really fun and

gutsy and gunslinger threw the ball around made some plays that was kind of a long time ago like he's he's like what like 34 years old now maybe not the same dude hasn't played at all this year really I want to say from kind of seeing the Bills Twitter like they don't feel super confident in him based on maybe some preseason action or things like that so yeah we'll see the Stefan Diggs is going to get open and be a problem no matter who the quarterback is he's one of the best receivers in the league so that's always a fun storyline that's a fun storyline specifically for this week. But yeah, you mentioned it after that, like Gabe Davis is the ultimate boom bust guy. He had that one week where he had two super long touchdowns and then sometimes he just disappears and he has like three catches a game. He's not a high volume guy. He's had some issues with drops. They could have maybe won that game against the Jets last week. Allen, after hurting his elbow, uncorks a ridiculous 70-yard throw that hits Davis in the chest, and he drops it.

So, yeah, there's some question marks here. They've gotten run on the last two weeks. That hadn't happened in the first six weeks before their bye, but the Jets ran on them. The Packers ran for over 200 yards, in part because the Packers in that game refused to throw the ball at all, so they were just running it a ton, but they had a lot of success doing it. So there's some like areas with this Bills team where you're like, they're not completely

invincible. So I think if the Vikings show up and play well, especially with Case Keenum in there, as we're assuming, I think they have a chance to make it a good game. Well, the most, uh, vincible parts is the offensive line for Buffalo is not what it has been in previous years. Now, I mean, their health is a little bit up in the air, Spencer Brown. Um, you know, I saw that their center, uh, was, uh, you know, getting some veteran rest time. So I don't, I don't know if he's banged up or if that's just something that they do there.

But when you've got multiple offensive linemen that are on the injury report and Zedaria Smith and Daniil Hunter are playing at the level they're playing at. And I think that early in the year, it was worth asking, are they going to be able to pressure any quarterbacks in this league this year? If Zedaria Smith is only three quarters of what he used to be, if Daniil Hunter doesn't really get into this system the way that he did with Mike Zimmer, where his hand was on the ground, but either they've made adjustments or he's made adjustments or it's been competition. I'm not sure, but Daniil Hunter has really jumped

up in those pressures and those PFF rankings. And then Zedaria Smith has shot up to number one in the entire NFL. And so you're going up against a offensive line that last week couldn't really handle the jets. And if you're going to say one reason why the New York jets were able to upset the Buffalo bills with Josh Allen, it was the defensive line of the jets, which is probably overall without Delvin Tomlinson in there for the Vikings, the jets D line is better, but the pressure on Josh Allen, that even if you're Josh Allen at times, that's going to impact you. I mean, just see the play that he got hurt on. Uh, anytime you're having to speed things up, like no one is non susceptible. That's a way to put it. Like even the best quarterbacks

against pressure will put up a 90 quarterback rating or something, right? Like it's not like anyone plays at the same level when they're pressured. And I think that this is the reason you would favor the Vikings in this matchup. Aside from the other parts of it, the weather, it's supposed to be a high of 40 degrees that favors Buffalo. Clearly the Vikings being a dome team, you know, just going on the road to an environment like this. We saw how they no showed in Philadelphia. The other time that they've played in a really tough environment. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say, this ain't Washington when it comes to what the atmosphere is going to be like people.

Look, I just did an all day flight to get here. I got up at four 30 in the morning to, to get here. There will not be a lot of purple in the stands and these bills fans aren't selling their tickets. If case Keenum starting, they're coming to this game. This will not be a stadium takeover. So there are things in

his favor, but I think we saw it with Taylor Heineke, who is not on the level of case Keenum, in my opinion, but when the pocket collapses on these guys who are not all that big case Keenum's what like maybe six, two, I don't even know if he's six, two, I think he and I look each other right in the eyes. He's maybe like six,1. It's just very difficult when the pocket collapses and they'll send Zedarius from all sorts of different places. We saw balls batted down last week. The Vikings did a good job of that. I think it's going to be a pretty tough ride on Case Keenum, not to mention that they're having to install an entirely different assuming that they've known all along that allen's not going to play that they're installing a whole different offense for

him because he can't play the same way josh allen can no one can play the same way josh allen can you try to emulate your starter with the backup it's like no one can do what this guy can do yeah so coming into this game like you've looked at it a few weeks ago, you could talk yourself into maybe the possibility of this being a fun offensive game, a shootout perhaps. Josh Allen and that Bills offense can score points against anybody. And the defense is tough, but Kevin O'Connell, Kirk Cousins, Justin Jefferson, they got TJ Hawkinson now. And now I'm starting to come around the other way and think, like, maybe 17 points wins this game.

Because, well, A, the Bills haven't given up more than 20 points all year. And they've played the top three offenses in the league in DVOA, the Ravens, the Chiefs, and the Dolphins. They've held all of them to 20 or 19 points. And then when the Bills have the ball, like, it's Case Keenum. And like you said, maybe some offensive line question marks. Zedaria Smith has been unbelievable this season. Leads the entire league in pressures. Daniil Hunter has like, he's taken some criticism,

but he's been kind of producing the whole time. It just maybe hasn't showed up. I think, especially if you look at like first four games versus the next four games, he started to kind of get more comfortable, especially since the bye in the system. And then it finally shows up in real production with two sacks against Washington last week so yeah I mean there are some concerns for the Vikings they'll be without Dalvin Tomlinson again which is a big loss some guys stepped up in the defensive tackle rotation last week but it's a different animal

when you're playing the bills and then they'll be without cam dantzler almost certainly which means a caleb evans a fourth round rookie who was kind of raw which was part of the reason he fell to the fourth round he did a lot of seasoning he's looked good so far but this is a whole different thing you're going to buffalo he's going to see maybe some stefan digs because patrick peterson doesn't travel um and you're going to see some gabe davis and khalil shakir whoever else the bills have at receiver like that's a tough spot for your on digs because Patrick Peterson doesn't travel and you're going to see some Gabe Davis and Khalil Shakir whoever else the Bills have at receiver like that's a tough spot for your first career start if you're a Caleb Evans so yeah I could see this being especially if weather's involved which I want weather to be involved it feels like Vikings Bills in Buffalo like it

shouldn't be warm and sunny it should be 40 degrees and maybe some wind and even some light snow would be wonderful if we can make that happen. But yeah, this could be a game where if the Vikings score early, that could be really big compared to, I mean, what it usually means. So yeah, 17 points, 20 points that that might be enough. If I'm not mistaken, the last time the Minnesota Vikings were here in Buffalo was 2014. Teddy Bridgewater V Kyle Orton,

where was it Scott Chandler who made a big catch? And then Sammy Watkins roasted Xavier Rhodes for a touchdown. And I think that that was a really low scoring game too. And it was a great day. It was kind of gnarly. It was Jare mckinnon at running back because adrian peterson had been suspended and matt asiata as well so i i kind of feel like it's going to be the same sort of game and like that's a weird one 17 16 yeah on that day

in 2014 tell me if i'm right tell me it was it scott chandler on the last drive making a catch over chad greenway and then um it was sam it was Sammy Watkins touchdown touchdown over to win it. I can see. Yeah, Scott Chandler. That is correct. Good, good memory. The Vikings have not won in Buffalo since 1997. Granted, they've only played two games since then there and I've lost both of them.

2014 and 2006. They've only played two games since then there, and I've lost both of them, 2014 and 2006. They lost 1712. So yeah, low scoring affairs when these two teams meet in orchard park. So the, the tooth or the 1997 game, Brad Johnson starting a quarterback, I think against Todd Collins.

Correct. Well done. And I want to say that wasn't a close game. That was Minnesota winning by a lot, right? That was the Vikings winning 34, 13. Robert Smith ran for 169 yards at a 78 yard touchdown run in that game.

I was 11. Still remember it. I was not born. No. So anyway, like they have, they have weird historic ties, but not exactly in games that they play against each other. They're all ties of irony, like the four Super

Bowls now Keenum versus digs. What, what do you want to, or not versus digs, but Keenum and digs versus the Vikings. What are you putting into that? Because I think it just goes under the category of, well, that's weird. I mean, of all the games that they could have had case Keenum star, Josh Allen has been unbelievably healthy in his career. And this is the game he goes out. I mean, it's so wild, but I also think that any shine that was on the revenge angle for them is kind of gone because it's not the coach that they'd be getting revenge against like we'll show you vikings but spielman and zimmer aren't there like those are the reasons

that case keenum and stefan diggs are not minnesota vikings still and and maybe maybe the wilfs i guess you could say them because i'm sure that they played a huge role in calling the shot of bringing in kirk cousins but the people who made the call to bring in Cousins and move on from Keenum and the people who made the call not to listen to Stefan Diggs about leaning into the passing game more often and to trade him for a first round pick I mean there's no revenge against Justin Jefferson I think that Stefan Diggs and Justin Jefferson get along and they talk and it's like oh cool you replaced me and did well like Like there really isn't a juice to this one in the same way that I think last week going to Washington was a big

deal for cousins. Peterson against Arizona was a big deal. I don't know if I'm feeling it as a revenge game angle. It's more just like, oh, wow. Old friend. It's like going to like, if I went around the corner to find some dinner tonight here in Buffalo and ran into an old friend like, oh, I'm in Minnesota now. You're in Buffalo. Hey, we're both kind of doing our thing, but not really connected in any other way these days. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Maybe if you want to drum up a revenge game angle, you could talk about Harrison Phillips not getting a second contract from the Bills or Leslie Frazier. But that's been so long. Yeah.

It's just kind of one of those things that's kind of weird and kind of fun. I was watching Stefan Diggs press conference yesterday and he was talking about like, that was years ago. Like that was almost three years ago that he got traded. He's living in the now he's enjoying his current situation and where he's at in his life and he's not really thinking about that stuff in the past and he had a lot of good things to say about Justin Jefferson like they Justin Jefferson had a lot of good things to say about Stefan Diggs on Thursday as well like they they get along they talk they're both really really elite receivers in the league Stefan Diggs it'll be cool like he'll get to catch up with Adam Thielen and Dalvin Cook and

Eric Hendricks and Harrison Smith and all these guys after the game and during the game it'll just be an NFL game and it'll be a little bit weird to see Stephon Diggs playing against the Vikings for the first time but yeah you bring up a great point like if Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman were still here I think there would be some some juice to it because Diggs has said I mean according to Kirk Cousins Diggs told him, you're not the reason why I won out. Now, did he upgrade massively in going from Kirk Cousins to Josh Allen and has probably enjoyed and reap the benefits of that? Yes.

But I think a lot of it was Mike Zimmer and the offense that the Vikings were running in 2019, which was really run oriented. And like, I mean, they went through so many different offensive coordinators, but the constant was Zimmer always reminding those offensive coordinators hey we need to run the ball and Diggs after the whole the whole situation early in 2019 after week four loss to the Bears he skips practice and all that gets fined he ended up having a really good season like he had a stretch in October where he was just lighting it up he had over 140 yards in three straight games killed the Eagles with a bunch of deep balls that was my first season covering that so I remember that really well but yeah I mean he's he's upgraded and he's in a great

situation and he's doing well and Justin Jefferson and the Vikings are doing really well Kevin O'Connell in the mix now like every everything's going well It's a trade that worked out super well for both sides. So it's just kind of a fun little coincidence that this happens to be the first time Diggs is facing the Vikings. There's no like trying to stick it to anyone, I don't think, other than the natural competitiveness of every NFL game. Folks, I want to say thank you to all of you who have given Liquid Death a try and sent me your tweets about it. Very cool of you guys to support the sponsors that support this show. I've actually gone to splitting my time between Diet Soda and Liquid Death's sparkling lime, but they also have Mountain Water as well. But it really says something if I've put the Diet Soda

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or go to liquiddeath.com slash insider to find where you can get it. That's liquid death.com slash insider. I agree. I, and I, I think that all of that is more of for us and probably not for the players at this point, it's like same laundry and some of the names, you know, but also a lot of the roster has turned over since digs has been here. I mean, I think even from last year, there were 21 new players or whatever it was. I had this in training camp. Like half the roster is different. It's only a handful of guys that still even know Stefan Diggs or in the same way or were

in the trenches with him from 2017 or even farther back than that. But it's only a handful of guys. The Diggs situation is the most frustrated when they traded him that I have been covering this team. Because trying to tell people what actually happened with Stefan Diggs and not guessing, but telling the truth about why Stefan Diggs was traded and trying to put out all the fires of what people assumed was the truth about why Stefan Diggs was traded and trying to put out all the fires of what people assumed was the truth was just difficult. I mean, I feel for some of the news media when it comes to this, when they're constantly chasing things that are conspiracies and things that are just

not true and they're trying to correct the record, but there's no way you can get that information to everyone. And a lot of times what I ran into was people didn't want to believe it. People didn't want to believe that this came down to something very simple, which was that Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman would not hear him out that they wouldn't, they would not listen to Stefan Diggs opinions on what they could do better. And also that he felt like they couldn't get over the top doing the things that they were doing. That's why he's gone.

It was nothing else. I mean, was he frustrated with Kirk cousins after that final game in San Francisco? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because he had a, in that new Orleans game where he was throwing his helmet. Cause he didn't,

he, they didn't throw it to him at all in that game. But remember there was the NFL films thing that caught Stefan Diggs begging Kirk Cousins to trust himself, trust his reads, trust his receivers and so forth. So there was all these things of, oh, Diggs hates Kirk. Diggs is a locker room cancer. And I had Jeremiah Searles on here, who is as honest of a former player as you're ever going to find. And he talked about the exact type of teammate that Stefan Diggs was.

And that's not to say there weren't the quote diva moments where it's over the top to skip practice entirely because you're mad about the result of the last game. If everyone did that, then you just wouldn't have football and you'd just be having constantly these stars just, you know, staying home because they were mad. They didn't get the ball on Sunday. So of course you can't have that. And that's not to apologize for him, but what's over the last couple of years been revealed is really the truth. The truth was that digs is one of the most competitive people that you're ever going to find in the entire universe. And it just drove him insane that they wouldn't hear him out. And I think he became very, very frustrated that they

wanted to be a run first offense and wanted to build around a running back and didn't want to throw the ball up to him and give him chances. And that is impacted by Case Keenum because Keenum, that was the number one thing he did. He always gave his receivers a chance. And there's where it ties into this game. And I think it's interesting, Will, because this Vikings team has been great at taking the ball away from quarterbacks who take chances like Taylor Heineke, unless the refs get involved and tackle your defender.

But I don't think that's going to happen two weeks in a row. What do we make of this? Because this game, as much as we just sort of poured a little cold water on that whole narrative, it really does come down to how much does Stefan Diggs crush you? Because the rest of this receiving core for the Bills and their tight end, not super scary. Yeah, it's not. One last thing I want to say just on the Diggs trade

is the Vikings got so lucky. Like imagine if they didn't draft Justin Jefferson and they took like Jalen Rager instead, who is now obviously on the team as well, or like anybody else, like LaVisca Chenault or like somebody who isn't Justin Jefferson. Like we would look at that trade so much differently and be like, how did you allow this clearly unbelievably talented receiver to go somewhere else? And how did you allow the situation to get to a point where he felt he needed to go somewhere else and has been justified since then like the the crazy thing is they've gotten so lucky with replacing him you could have stefan diggs and justin jefferson in

theory like they got a first round pick there but they had another they already had a first round pick in the 20s that year anyway like imagining those two guys playing together is that's a whole different thing but i just wanted to say that like we would look at this so differently if the vikings hadn't miraculously managed to draft this guy 22nd overall and then he just becomes stefan diggs or maybe even a slight upgrade like nobody has more receiving yards since 2020 than jefferson jefferson how they ended up with that is is quite lucky but you're right it's going to come down to if Case Keenum plays and then that's the whole assumption we're operating under like he's going to probably take some risks and and and put the ball up there and and we were

talking I was talking to Cam Bynum after the game in Washington like he knew they knew that they were going to have some opportunities there with Taylor Heineke, that he was going to put the ball up into risky situations. Cam Bynum gets an easy interception last week if the ref doesn't run into him. And Case Keenum is a similar player, more experienced than Taylor Heineke for sure. Probably a slightly better quarterback, but there's going to be some element of that. And that's going to be something to watch. Like Harrison Smith has an interception in three straight games Bynum said the Vikings go into every game expecting to get at least two takeaways and ideally more and they've been good at that like their turnover margin is really good

so I will be very curious to watch Stefan Diggs and Patrick Peterson who there's no there's no I'm playing against the Cardinals I'm super fired up angle but I mean that is just a naturally super super competitive dude Patrick Peterson and he's he's like been rebirthed this year I mean last year I think he looked a little bit maybe like he had fallen off I don't want to say washed or anything like that because he was still a productive corner still easily the Vikings best corner but this year he looks a lot like almost peak Arizona Cardinals Patrick Peterson and he's been really good and instinctual and he's not getting burned and he's just playing at a really high level so that matchup specifically is going to be super

fun to watch and I think Peterson takes all those personally like all cornerbacks and receivers in the NFL do Justin Jefferson I don't think Tredavious White is going to make his season debut this week, but he's getting close. But whoever Justin Jefferson lines up, every week he wants to torch that guy. Same with Stephon Diggs. And then Patrick Peterson,

he wants to shut down the opponent's top receiver. So that is going to be a huge thing because, yeah, you said it, like Gabe Davis is maybe due for a good, for a deep ball every now and then. But that a big part of that is playing with Josh Allen and the opportunities that are created playing with this cyborg quarterback who can throw it 70 yards from any platform. Like if, if case Keenum's there,

I don't know how productive Gabe Davis will be. So it's going to come down to digs. And I I'm really curious to see how that matchup unfolds. Yeah. A few different things on that. I'm really interested to see how Buffalo deploys Stefan digs, because if I'm them, I'm making sure he's on a Caleb Evans or Shannon Sullivan every time.

And a Caleb Evans, I was extremely impressed. I was very impressed with he, a couple of times came downhill full speed and made great plays in the run game I mean big plays in the run game that were significant for them and then of course that fourth down stop which was a really good play and that's the kind of rollout type of thing that you're going to have to do with Case Keenum because you can't really have him sit back there I mean we remember how good Pat Shermer was at dialing up those little rollouts and things like that

for Case Keenum. So it will probably ask a Caleb Evans to be in coverage there. There's also the element of communication, which matters a lot because we saw this in camp with a Caleb Evans where you could see the length and the speed and it's impressive. But there were a few times in camp where like, what happened with that receiver running 30 yards with no one around and like the, you know, Caleb Evans is looking at Cam Bynum or looking at lewis scene and they're looking at each other like what uh so and that's the one thing that happened in philly was there was a miscommunication between bynum and danzler and quez watkins gets wide open for a long touchdown like that is entirely possible

that that could happen again this week right that's something that they have to be concerned about and also if you're ken dorsey, the, uh, you know, offensive coordinator for Buffalo, that's what you're trying to take advantage of because you know, Cam Dantzler isn't playing. They're like, okay, it's a completely inexperienced guy. What can we throw at him involving arguably the best wide receiver in the entire NFL? And so I expect to see a lot of moving Stefan digs around trying to get him open against those guys. But also I wanted to go down that what if path with all of these guys. I mean, I think you bring up a really good one that we don't almost ever talk about because like Jefferson's

here and he's making plays. And again, an argument for the number one wide receiver in the entire NFL, if they had not drafted him and instead picked any of the other guys you mentioned, no one's even in his ballpark. I mean, are we talking about a new coach by 2021? I mean, without Justin Jefferson in 2020, how many games do they even win that year? Are we even talking about Kirk cousins as the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings? Because if they had won five games instead of what was it? Seven, eight.

What was 2020? That was, uh, it was seven, seven, seven, seven and nine. And then last year, eight and nine. Right, right, right. So I was trying to remember if it was seven, I forget the garbage time games at the end because I blocked them out of my brain forever. But if they had won four games, let's say in 2020, I don't think that cousins comes in 2020 i don't think that cousins comes back i don't think that mike comes back i i think they're just moving on from everyone and and also of

course rick because he would have been the one that traded stefan diggs and i also wanted to add to this that kevin o'connell as we talk about where around the fringes he matters like i don't think he's going to alienate a player if a player is going to have a problem with o'connell it's going to be probably on that guy and that is a big deal because the number of players that mike and rick and and this the culture alienated over the years was pretty high and we saw that by the end but i wonder what if you agree with that that the results probably were a complete overhaul well before they, you know, well, actually, they never have gotten around to the overhaul. But even with the coaching staff, the roster has not been, but the coaching staff as well.

I think that happens much sooner than it did. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I don't think there's really any question about that. If they don't have Justin Jefferson in 2020 they they win four or five games like i think he he matters that much with with the instant impact that he had 1400 yards that season like yeah no i i don't even know if i have anything else to add on that i just i completely agree like mike zimmer might have gotten fired during the season i don't that's not really the wilf style they probably would have waited until after the year but yeah you're probably talking about a regime change prior to the 2021 season and then who knows like you probably you don't land kevin o'connell because he was like

still kind of he had just been the offensive coordinator with la for a year at that point so he wasn't really a head coaching candidate until after last season so there's a whole different like kind of the alternate dimension like what would have ended up happening who would have come in as the gm and the coach and what direction would they have gone in and i have no idea anyways the overall point is justin jefferson is the reason a big reason the vikings are seven and one right now for a bunch of reasons for his play this year but also for uh his play previous years, allowing the situation to be what it currently is with Kevin O'Connell. Now, of course, there's also the case Keenum one.

I don't know that you and I have ever talked about because people have heard me talk about it a number of times about 2018 and the quarterback decision. And I had two ideas that I liked, and I think both ideas would have played out well for them. At the time, I'm not saying go back, oh, these are the ones I like in hindsight. At the time, keep Case Keenum and Teddy Bridgewater and draft a quarterback. There were supposed to be five first-rounders.

I think there were five first-rounders that year. Take whichever one shows up at your doorstep or that you could trade up for, which would have been Lamar Jackson, of course. And so that was my idea. The other one was to trade for Alex Smith. And I thought that he was the perfect Mike Zimmer quarterback, high character, low turnovers,

just a guy who's going to protect the football, allow you to play defense, which in 2018 and 2019, I think would have played pretty well for this team. So those were my two ideas that didn't come to fruition. What did you think in 2018? Did you think they were making the right decision with Kirk or did you have something else in mind? Yeah. So I wasn't covering the team at the time,

but I was obviously following them quite closely being from Minnesota and all and I it's tough because I understood where they were coming from and it's it's hard for me to say I wouldn't have been tempted to do the same thing with Teddy's injury question marks and Case Keenum I mean he was he was unbelievably fun that year but you you could kind of tell he wasn't going to be the quarterback to maybe get the team over the hump. The whole pick six in that Philly NFC Championship game kind of lingers in your mind and things like that. So yeah, I remember at the time they signed Kirk Cousins,

and I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. This is a team that is really close and just needs more maybe stability and a higher floor and a slightly higher ceiling at the quarterback position. So I want to say, I mean, I don't remember exactly what I was thinking in the moment, but I'm pretty sure I was on board with it. And I was like, yeah, let's, let's see where this goes. the thing about the the kirk cousins era is that move has kind of unquestionably not worked out and that is just you look at the four-year sample size before this year and they made the playoffs once and really did not have any sort of championship ceiling in that 2019 season despite having a really good defense they got smacked in that game against the 49ers in the divisional round. But, like, they're in a situation right now where you finally have the coach to pair with the quarterback. You finally have the offensive line to pair with the quarterback, with Christian Derrissaw playing out of his mind

and the rest being pretty good, except for Ed Ingram, who we've talked about before, is still a problem at the moment but like they have an opportunity right now going forward the next nine games in this regular season they're gonna make the playoffs they're gonna win the division they have an opportunity to do something that would make the kurt cousins trade completely worth it no regardless of what happened the last four years so it took a while for them to get into the perfect situation for Kirk Cousins and maybe it's not even that much different we're just

talking about it this way because they're winning these one score games but yeah it is it is a fascinating thing like what would have happened if they if they rolled with Case Keenum instead what would happen if they drafted somebody? There are so many different possibilities that are fun to think about. But here we are, and Kirk Cousins maybe isn't playing the best individual football of his career, but he's in the best situation, and he's stepping up.

That Washington game being the perfect example, he's stepping up in the moments when the Vikings need him to. So I give him a lot of credit for that. Yeah, that Washington game, when I give him a lot of credit for that. Yeah. That Washington game. When I, when I watched it in real time, I focused on mostly the lack of success offensively. I was like, well, this, and the statistics were not good either. You get a 47 yard catch and still average six and a half yards per pass. Not very good. But I think that when I went back and

watch it and saw the tape and saw the performance of the interior, the offensive line of what he was dealing with, I was like, that might've actually been his best game of the year. I mean, he really made some great throws in that game, came up big on some third downs, which he hasn't always done this season. The funny thing about Kirk cousins in Minnesota and that 2018 decision with case Keenum is part of the math for me was this is going to be really expensive. It's going to make him the league's most highly paid quarterback. He's not taking a discount. He is not setting up this contract to help the team at all, which a lot of quarterbacks, including Josh Allen early in the contract they do. And then they set it up to be restructured

later and keep kicking money down the road and yada, yada, yada. But he took the full 30 million or whatever it was making him one of the highest paid. And my thought was the pay doesn't match up with the player. And this is where the funny part comes in is that Kirk Cousins has been the absolute top version, 99th percentile of what Kirk Cousins could ever be in Minnesota. He's played every game except for the one COVID incident. He has put up huge numbers. He has really good PFF grades and all that stuff. And yet they still failed in the first four years as a franchise to be really relevant outside of one season. And they were the number six seed going into the playoffs that year. And, and so I think that like when a lot of people want to make it about is Kirk good, is Kirk not good and so forth. I mean, he's been the best version of Kirk. He's been better than

he was in Washington. If you compare his PFF grades, his highest PFF grade in Washington was an 80.6. His highest in Minnesota is 88.2 last year. I mean, so like quite a margin of playing better football last year than he did when he was in Washington. He was a new starter, even though he wasn't a young quarterback in the league. So the guy that I watched in Washington as a veteran quarterback, I was like, I just don't see where this is going to be worth the money. And he's played better. And it still hasn't been up until this point where everything has become charmed for him. And it's really, it's really landing on, on kind of my theory. And this would go for

case Keenum too. If case Keenum started every season for a franchise over 10 years, one year, he'd get a shot, right. At being a great team, just one year, things would go his way, stay healthy rosters. Good. People do their jobs jobs if you had 10 years of Case Keenum. If you have 10 years of Kirk Cousins, which we do as a starter almost, this is his one shot. This is it. This is the best he's ever been in terms of record. It's his best opportunity in terms of the NFC, the team around him,

the coach, the health, all those things. And so, I mean, wouldn't it again, be the irony of all ironies that the guys who signed him believing that they could get that one shot out of him in 2018 would be fired only to see it come to fruition after to see this version. And, you know, of course we reverse engineer the narrative to blame Zimmer and all those things for them not getting there. But I mean, we all watch the games. That was not exactly the case. But I think that's a really interesting element of this is this, this is the 99th percentile of the guy they've signed and it still hasn't

worked. But now this is, this is it. This is, this is why it's like, when people ask, well, will they draft someone else? Like, I don't know, man, let's talk about it in March. Like, because this is so big. Every single week is so big for this team because you never know how many other chances you're going to get like this. Yeah, no, absolutely. And you're right, of course, that the 2018 decision,

like the money factors into it in a big way. It's also just like they went with the known commodity and like there's so many unknowns that they could have potentially explored drafting somebody who knows if they draft the right person and then they set themselves into the the the situation a lot of teams are in where you draft somebody and then they don't turn out to be very good and then you draft somebody again and and then sometimes you hit on a guy and you get the quarterback on the rookie contract or the quarterback will becomes the Mahomes or Allen or whoever. And then it works out brilliantly. Sometimes you're like the Panthers or the Browns and you just remain in the cycle and you're not good anyways.

So the Wilfs, I think, played a big role in wanting to maintain kind of that baseline level of success. And they've had that, I suppose. Like they haven't won fewer than seven games in a 2020 season. They won seven. But yeah, like you're right. The Vikings are in such an interesting situation right now where this is the moment to kind of capitalize on. And this specific game maybe doesn't matter a ton against an AFC team and like the Vikings are gonna win the NFC North unless they completely fall apart but you'd like to win it to

give yourself a chance at keeping pace with the Eagles for the one seed because that is a huge deal with not only the bye that there's only one bye now but then getting to play every playoff game at home if it comes to that and not having to theoretically getting way ahead of myself go to philly for an nfc championship in theory like they're they're all big and the fact that case keenum is probably going to end up on the other side of that it just ends up being kind of a funny coincidence when you look at back at 2018 and you look at all the different paths the vikings could have taken I've decided that it's as far as the like find out who we are we know who they are we don't quite know entirely maybe I just thought this because I thought it sounded good

we don't know quite entirely who they can be and I think that these next four games are really what i care about it's not really this one because i mean let's say they come here case keenum beats them 17 16 on a let's just say a pass down the sideline let's just say let's just say a safety takes a bad perhaps just stefan digs just spitballing just not influenced by anything off the top of my head here and digs catches it runs for a touchdown and throws his helmet and it's and someone says it's unbelievable like maybe that's what would happen i'm not gonna go like fraud you know like i'm not gonna take that like well that's a random loss like there's your one there's your one score l that you didn't get you know these last few weeks and then against a good team you did, but then, you know, it's, it's more good teams after that. Then it's Dallas. That's a great test.

And Dallas seems to have no problem playing in us bank state. Uh, maybe, maybe they did in the Hubert H Humphrey Metrodome with mall of America field when, um, Jeff George beat them in the playoffs, but not now. So that's a good one. And then 2009 when Sidney Rice had three touchdowns on him. That's what, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. They had no problem with Metrodome or, or no, they did. They did have a problem with Metrodome, but not us bank stadium.

They've won there. Even Andy Dalton won there. But then, you know, you got, you got the jets after that. It's another great defensive line. It's very Patriots and then jets. Or yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Patriot. Maybe I've been saying that backwards, but Patriots and then jets. So, you know,

you've got this group of really good defenses that you're going to play. That's what the accumulation, we get to the end of that and look where they rank in offense. That's what I really want to see. That's what I care about defense. You know, it's going to fluctuate, but where they rank in offense after these next four games, that's what I care about defense you know it's going to fluctuate but where they rank in offense after these next four games that's what I care about no I agree it's you said if they lose by one to the bills you're not going to be like oh frauds like nothing they've done up to this point means anything

and similarly if they beat the bills in case Keenum by three you're not going to say oh this team is suddenly one of the three Super Bowl contenders in the league. Like, it's probably not going to change things that much. I will be legitimately impressed if the Vikings offense plays well and even scores like 20 points against the Bills defense. That's how good it's been this year. But, yeah, it's the four games. It's the Cowboys coming to town after that who are actually ahead of the Bills. Cowboys are number one in defensive DVOA. Micahons is unbelievable that whole defense and they have their quarterback i mean

like i hope i hope nothing happens to dac prescott this weekend and against the packers and he's fine to play against the vikings the following week and then you're going to see a fully functional team on both sides of the ball and then you play four days later on thanksgiving you play bill belichick like the greatest defensive mind of all time some would say and then you play four days later on thanksgiving you play bill belichick like the greatest defensive mind of all time some would say and then a jets team that has a really really good defense too like they're up in the top 10 top 5 and a lot of metrics so yeah the vikings offense specifically will be tested over the next month and and that's going to be really interesting to see how that unfolds not just this specific game what i'm looking for in

this specific game with the vikings offense is can the interior offensive line block anybody because the bills you talk about a lot about the edge rushers von miller greg rousseau who i remember talking about a lot as a vikings potential draft prospect in 2021 but the interior guys even with harrison phillips now in minnesota they even with Harrison Phillips now in Minnesota they've got Taquan Jones they've got Jordan Phillips they've got Ed Oliver a former first round pick and they're going to do a lot of things that they've seen from other teams on tape Washington in particular teams are having a ton of success with these stunts and these twists and all of these different things you can do to get your edge rushers on, on an Ezra Cleveland on an Ed Ingram.

And the communication becomes paramount when you are facing those things. And the Vikings just haven't done well against those. So yeah, like I think Kirk cousins and TJ Hawkinson, we haven't even talked about this show. It was unbelievable. And I think he's just going to keep being a huge part of this offense. I think he's a perfect target for Kirk Cousins over the middle of the field, but for those things to happen and for Christian Derrissaw and Brian O'Neill, his greatness to matter, the interior has to block people. So that's what I'm going to be

looking for kind of first and foremost in this game when the Vikings have the ball. And I think that is going to kind of color my prediction for this game, which, by the way, you finally ended your streak. It needs to be pointed out that you came very close to extending it with the Commanders having a 17-7 lead in the fourth quarter, but Vikings got it done. Well, you know, all lucky streaks come to an end at some point, and the Vikings, I haven't decided. I mean, this is a hard

one because i think i want to pick the vikings because i think the bills have more weaknesses but at and i'll always call it rich stadium buffalo at rich stadium i've been there i've seen it it's crazy i mean it's really something it's really something. It's really like a Philadelphia, like a Seattle, like a Minnesota. I think, gosh, I've just been not so much on the fence here with this one. I, I feel like picking the bills because they're at home. And I think that the rosters are even, and that's really the only reason with Keenum, if Alan plays, it's a totally different formula. Who are you picking? I'm picking the Bills. And, yeah, it's the same situation. Like, I could be tempted. I could be talked into picking the Vikings.

Like, it's not just Josh Allen being out. It's Jordan Poyard in practice on Thursday. And all these different guys, like several other players for the Bills defense didn't practice on Thursday. Like they're missing a few pieces there, but it's just it's the home field advantage. And it's Stephon Diggs and it's the talent they have on their defense, even if they're missing a few guys. So I think like at some point, the Vikings aren't going to win every stressful one-score game. And we've been saying that, and it hasn't happened yet. But I think they're due for another loss.

I'm going to take the Bills to win a close one. So just because it was election week, I have flip-flopped during the week. I think earlier in the week I said with Jeremiah I was going to pick the Vikings, and now I feel a pick in the Bills. Because one thing, Milano coming back is kind of a big deal for them. We don't really know who's going to be healthy. It just occurred to me that I was trying to think of who the other people who are mispronounced, but Tremaine Edmonds, their other linebacker missed Thursday and he might be out.

And then Kier Elam, their first round corner might be out. So that would, that would, it's, and if, if Trey White and Krie Elam don't play, then I don't even like Christian Benford and Dane Jackson, who Dane Jackson, fun fact was part of that. Justin Jefferson, Stefan digs trade.

Oh, right. He was this, he was the seventh round pick that was thrown into that. You know what? Maybe I shouldn't flip flop then. Maybe the bills are just too banged up for this one. They just lost to the jets.

Take the Vikings. Then I'll just, I'll just stay Vikings then. I'll just stay with it. I'll just stay with it. I won't flip-flop. I will stay on my platform that I established, and I won't make any jokes regarding the politics of Minnesota and any candidates who changed very key positions midway

and maybe won or lost in any races. I won't make any allusions to that because people don't like that. They like football. So, all right. We'll see you here in Buffalo, Will. Yeah, I'll be there on Saturday. Looking forward to it. Football.