Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is PFF's Trevor Sikkema high or lower on Vikings draft targets (he LOVES one)

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by PFF's Trevor Sikkema to preview next week's draft and discuss which Vikings targets he LOVES and which targets he's lower on.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here, and I am thrilled to have Trevor Sikama of Pro Football Focus returning to the show. And look, I wasn't sure if I was going to get on the slate this year. I see you everywhere. You're on TV. Of course, the podcast very successful at PFF.

But I feel like I've been seeing you on NFL network all over the place. Trevor, I'm happy to see it. Of course, your beautiful face on television, but I'm glad you can make a little time for the old purple insider show. Uh, Matthew, of course, man, I mean, look, I'm only going on this show and every other show because I'm a narcissist and I love to see myself all over my own Twitter timeline. So that's actually the reason for it,

but no, honestly, man, it was great. I'm glad that we can link up before the draft. I always enjoy popping on your show. So thank you for having me, my friend. Look, if I had the beard that you have, I would wanna see myself as much as possible as well. But listen, I got a couple things for you. One thing we've been doing on the show

is having fans submit sentences that start with, am I crazy? And then I have my guests decide whether those fans are crazy or not. So we'll do that in just a little bit. But here's what I want as we approach the final days here. I want to know from your perspective, if you're higher or lower than the consensus on a bunch of dudes that the Minnesota Vikings might have on their list. So I'm going to throw you a dude and you tell me whether you're higher or lower. And if you want to ask me back, you can ask me back.

Let us start out with a guy who is rated on the PFF board on the old mock draft simulator, which I have just worn out this year with different scenarios. I do so many trades, it starts smoking with my computer, but somebody I've noticed that maybe you're a little lower on on the, the rankings there is Nick M and waray, the safety from South Carolina, who had a absolutely freakish NFL combine pretty productive last year with four interceptions, but has not been at the same level on your list

as Melikai Stark. So I guess I already said whether you're higher or lower, but explain lower then. Yeah, so I'm a little bit lower on Nick. I'd love to draft him somewhere in the middle of day two, right? Back into second round, early part of the third round, and of course, anywhere beyond that,

basically the back part of the second round and anywhere course, anywhere beyond that basically the back part of the second round and anywhere beyond it, I'd be comfortable drafting a guy like this. I get a little bit worried with Nicky Manwari. Maybe it's because I loved Obi Mellifon Wu so much so much when he was coming out of Yukon very similar, you know, had the production had the single high tape that was up there really good when he was in space, but he just wasn't physical enough to be able to play at the NFL level. He consistently couldn't

come downhill. He wasn't reliable as a run defender and his athleticism kind of got lost. And we didn't see a lot of the NFL because he didn't anticipate, you know, he had reaction speed, but he didn't really have that anticipation that you needed from him. And so I get it a little bit worried about the parallels there with him and Mellifone Wu. And then I kind of think of, you know, I was talking with John Legard, who does a great job at audibles and analytics covering the draft pretty in depth Lee as well. And he's like, you know, when you look at Eman Worry, what's the best case scenario for him? Like

is it Jeremy Chin? You know, like when you think of Jeremy Chin of how athletic Jeremy Chin was and how he's a little bit more of that, like free safety type of role, because some people might go, Okay, well, what about like a Kyle Dugger? And the thing is that I think Kyle Dugger? And the thing is that I think Kyle Dugger plays more physical than Nicky Minwari does. There was a time when I watched him in warring I said, her I do I want him to just put him on a little bit more extra

weight and just be an explosive linebacker at the second level. But unfortunately, some of that physical play from him is a little inconsistent. He doesn't always want to hit the way that you would want a linebacker to do. And so I go, well, okay, so he's not really Kyle Dugger, because Dugger is never shy away from contact. He is a little bit more of that strong safety linebacker type of hybrid player. Jeremy Chin's more of that like slot defender free safety type of bigger athlete dude. And where would you draft Jeremy Chin? Right?

I mean, Jeremy Chin goes in the second round and I think that Jeremy Chin's been fine. But I think that throughout his early career, when he was at the Panthers, they couldn't really find like the advantageous spot for them. And it wasn't just this like, Oh, just, just draft them and figure it out later. I'm, I'm past that as a draft analyst, honestly, I think there's a lot of guys in this class and other classes where we go, well, they're just too athletic. They'll figure it out.

Like just draft them and figure it out later. I don't really subscribe to that anymore. I have to be able to find an ideal path for them to production, especially early on in their career. I feel like they're going to be lost. The versatility. There's a way that I talk about it on the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. There's a difference between being versatile and being homeless.

If you are versatile, you have a home base. You have a position that you are very good at that at worst, I know you can play this position. And then outside of that, think of Kyle Hamilton, right? Okay, you can play also free safety. You can play in the slot. You can play outside. You can play as a linebacker. He can do all those things because you would least know that he is a safety, like he could play safety for you. And you're good with that. I'm not so sure I have a home base that I feel great about with Iman Wari. The athleticism, the talent ceiling, worthy of still a day two selection. But that's where I get a little bit nervous with him. Now, it's funny that I'm'm on a Vikings podcast talking about this because I think if there's one of those spots that would take him

earlier than most, it would be Minnesota. Like it would be a defensive coordinator like Brian Flores, who is very, you know, amoeba and multiple in what he does on the backend and on the front end, just to try to give those quarterbacks a look that they are not, that they don't see very often. And Iman Worry has the potential to be that type of player. But that's why I'm a little bit lower on him because the thing that I think he does well is he has great recovery speed. And if you let him play in space, he's got great range.

That was the Obi-Mala Fong Wu thing. And because he didn't anticipate well enough, even that got lost in the NFL level and he wasn't as physical as you wanted him to be when he was coming downhill. And sometimes I also have that worry with him and work. So that's sort of my scouting report for him and why I have him where I do. Yeah. So I think the way I would put it with Iman Wari is that the ceiling just based on his

athleticism should be extremely high. But at the same time, the production is really a one year type of thing. And two of his interceptions came in one game. He's got four picks. Picks can be one of the most deceiving statistics in all of football for repeatability. We even talked about this with Byron Murphy Jr. Like, it's not likely that he leads all corners in interceptions again. And for a guy with his physical prowess and how much he was in the box, Byron Murphy Jr. Like it's not likely that he leads all corners in interceptions again. And for a guy with his physical prowess and how much he was in the box, this is me reading a PFF sheet here should grade higher against the run, I think, if

you're going to be that downhill type of guy, like a ransom from Ohio state that I think is, is that kind of players, very physical and violent downhill. Just didn't really see that from Emanuari. And I always just fear the Combine riser. This I think is one of those red flags for me. Our friend Benjamin Robinson who does Grinding the Mox where he has studied players' rises and falls over long periods of time.

And one thing that consistently shows up is if somebody was in a certain place and then they go to the combine and then they jump way up because they have a great combine, that's one to really be afraid of because one, if you're that physical and I have this problem with a Stuart, the edge rusher, uh, is just, if you're that freakish, why didn't you sack people or why didn't you have even more production than you did? Why didn't you totally dominate that level? Because if you didn't dominate that level,

how are you going to dominate the next level? I agree with you on Flores. And that's one thing where we always look at, all right, who played multiple positions in college, circle those guys. So I still think if they took Emen Warre, I would believe more in Flores. Not that I don't trust you,

but I would believe in him more than us. But at the same time I think I have questions. The next guy is someone who is debated a lot within the draft community, and that is Tyler Booker. I do not know where you stand on Tyler Booker, so tell me are you higher or lower than the consensus on him?

So if consensus, I have Booker, let me see where he is. He is 47th on my big board. Again, this is what I think of Tyler Booker. Really good day two guard for a man gap power run blocking scheme team. That's a second round pick for me. I think that where you lose me is you start talking

about him as like a top 20 overall player. Like I think that there are a lot of analysts out there that really love Tyler Booker. And from what I've heard, like the intangibles are great. Like Alabama speaks very highly of him. He's a relentless worker. And Daniel Jeremiah even said, when he talked to people at Alabama,

they called him like the Will Anderson of the offensive side of the trenches. And so when you have that sort of praise for a player, obviously like that's something that, um, that you feel pretty good about cause you're investing in the person as much as the player for him. He's just very streamlined again for a power run blocking team. I think he could be great. He's great on combo blocks. He's really good between the tackles. He's really good at that. You know, that offensive lineman phrase, there's nothing like moving a man against his will from point A to point

B. Like that's a Tyler Booker type of phrase of who he is as an interior offensive lineman. If you want to run mid and outside zone, do not draft him. Like he, like I think you're going to have a lot more frustrations and the good is going to outweigh the bad. No, of course, like even the heavy zone blocking teams in the run game, it's like 60 65%. Right? I mean, like you still have to run the other concepts, you still have to be able to run power. And so it's not like it's 100 and 0%. But those teams that run a lot more zone, I don't know if

you're really going to want that. Now, Minnesota is an interesting case for Tyler Booker, right? Because I think over the last year, actually let me, I have this number right here because I did some team specific top 100s using some PFF data of, um, some notes of like how they played last year, whether it was how much they did single high work, two high work, zone coverage stuff, press coverage stuff, man and zone, run blocking concepts, what they did. And so Minnesota is a team that as you would expect, ran a lot more zone than they did man. They ran zone around 50% of the time and man, it was closer to around like 33% of the time. There's another chunk

of the percentage that sort of like an other, which can be a lot of other creative things. Obviously they go in there. So they ran zone a lot more than they did man. But, uh, I was actually talking with Robert Mays about this and I was talking about Minnesota specifically at 24 and I was saying, Hey, you know, like, I don't really love Tyler Booker for them at 24 because they're not a team that did that. And he, and he said back to me and I hadn't really thought of this. He's like, okay, but what if O'Connell, with the guys that they have, like Ryan Kelly's now there,

Will Fries is there, and you have Faith and Brian O'Neill and Christian Derrassaw to basically be able to execute any sort of run blocking concept for you. What if they do the McVeigh thing, where McVeigh was just mid and outside zone for years? And then all of a sudden he was like, Nope, we're a power blocking team now. And nobody really saw it coming. And it's worked to

their advantage. I think a lot of ways he's like, what if Kevin O'Connell also does that now that he has new interior offensive line in there? And I'd never thought about it. I was like, okay, if that's their goal, then all of a sudden I could be convinced that he could be the pick at 24, obviously with Minnesota not having a second round pick that he could be the pick at 24. Obviously with Minnesota not having a second round pick, you're either taking them at 24 or maybe you're trading back. But that's the Tyler Booker conversation here is like, I like him. I think he's a good starting caliber guard at the NFL level. I'm not as in on him as people who are like, yeah, for sure. First round pick type of guard. No question about it.

And for Minnesota, it sort of depends on what they want to be moving forward. But those are my thoughts on Tyler Booker. Well, and if you want to go even one step deeper into the weeds on that, the assistant offensive line coach that they hired to help them improve the run game has roots in Tennessee with Derrick Henry, where you would expect that there would be more of a power type of concept there. And I think that they do want to do that.

The size of Ryan Kelly, the size of Will Fries, their size and nastiness kind of, I think, says a little bit more that they would run some power stuff. And coming from Indianapolis, I think they wanted to do that. So I could see it with Tyler Booker. Where I go back and forth a little bit is when he was talked about coming out, it was this guy is enormous. He's the biggest guard you've ever seen in your life. And then he goes to the combine and it's like six, four and three

twenty, which is a guard for sure. But that's definitely not this humongous mountain of a man in comparison to the way he was talked about. And when you put up combine numbers like that, that gets into the chance Warmac, Lake and Tomlinson type of area. And I looked it up, uh, how many guards that were taken in the first round ever put up relative athletic scores like his. And the answer was basically those two guys. I mean, it was basically Tomlinson and Wormack and you'd be hard pressed to find too many more.

The one thing I think is very believable though, with him and the Vikings connection would be the character element that if you're going to come in and play right away with Ryan Kelly on your right and Christian Derrissa on your left, you better be ready to go. You better be a mature guy. You better be impressive inside the room. There isn't any time for, Hey, we're just going to screw around and develop some raw guy who doesn't know what he's doing.

Like they want that culture element to their team. But I go back and forth on a couple of different guards here. I mean, with Grey's able, I think if they're going to continue to run zone and they got a zone running back in Jordan Mason in a trade, then Zabel makes more sense to me just on his pure athleticism. And then I don't really know what to make of Donovan Jackson. His PFF grades are not that great as a guard or a tackle. that great as a guard or a tackle. And I mean, he got absolutely destroyed when they played Penn state. And that's an NFL caliber defensive line there with, with a lot of their players and Abdul Carter, but yet you see a move and you go, I kind of see

why, if they were going to play zone, the Donovan Jackson would be interesting. So if you had your, if I told you, Hey, they picked a guard at 24, but I'm not going to tell you who or why, like which one of those guys would you think that it would be? And which one would you pick? Yeah, I'd pick Graze Abel. And I don't, I, again, it sort of depends on, on what they think I have Zable. Where do I have him ranked? Uh, I have him 28th. So I have, I have Grey's Abel at 28. I have Tyler Booker at 47 and then I have Donovan Jackson at 48. So they're, they're pretty much right there. Cause I think they're sort of different players. So I couldn't really decide. And I was like, ah, you know, these are second round, um, guards that I would be comfortable with their Zabel. I've

talked about this before. We should be talking about Grey's Abel the way that we talked about Graham Barton last year and the bucks drafted Graham Barton at 26 and they're very happy with it He has been excellent for them at Center. He got better as the year went on He's gonna be the long-term Center for the future. I think disabled could play Center for you. He could play left guard He could play right guard. He's that good of an offensive lineman. And so I think that we should be talking about him in the same conversation I think you should be on the board for the is at 24, but other teams too, you know, like I think that Bengals at 17, the Seahawks at 18, like I think that those teams should be interested in him as well. So I think that he is a back half of the first round type of player. That's why I would be taking there for the Viking specifically.

I don't know. I feel like Donovan Jackson could be their type of player, right? If they, if, if Zabel's not there, if they want the bigger school guy, uh, depending on, again, if they really want to lean into the power run blocking scheme, maybe it is Tyler Booker, but you know, with Jackson, I've been talking about Jackson for a while now because he was on NFL draft radars like three years ago, and then he becomes draft eligible last year. And I thought he was going to declare and then he didn't. And then he had this past season and he, it should be glad that he did not declare because he is putting his best foot forward, at least at this point,

always been a really good mover, a former, I believe five star recruit, if not four star recruit, he was very highly touted recruit. And it was always for that athletic ability, some pretty smooth movements for a player that carries as much weight as he does. But when I first got eyes on him, whatever it was three years ago, I was like, this dude does not play with enough power.

He's way too finesse. It's not going to work in the NFL. And then he got a little bit stronger, uh, two years ago. And then I think he got even stronger this past year and he was able to play well before Josh Simmons goes down and then they've got to play him at left tackle. I don't think he's a left tackle. Like I think some people are like, Oh, is he a tackle or a guard? I very firmly think he is an

offensive guard. And you know, maybe you could do the Joe Tooney thing for him. But even the chiefs like Tooney was able to survive a tackle because of how smart he was. But if that experiment would have gone longer, you just start to attack in the outside shoulder with him. And it starts being an issue. And we saw it be an issue for the Kansas City Chief. So I think the Jackson's much more of a guard, but at least he's playing with a little bit more power now. And I still think he's one of the younger prospects in this class. So all that to say long answer, I'd take Gray's able the next guy. I'd probably take his Donovan Jackson, but that sort of depends on what they want to do in their run game moving forward.

What's so interesting is that there's guys on a board like yours that are closer to 50, but we also need to talk about them because the Vikings could trade down closer to 50 and still take someone like Donovan Jackson, where you'd be happy with it if they traded to 35 or some area in that. This is by far the most players that I've ever had to, you know, be kind of locked in on because there's so many potential options. Yeah, I would I would just say too, like this class and this draft could get very chaotic. I would tell you that a lot of people have the same top five, at least top three

in this class. I think a lot of people have the same names. At least two of the three names are the same with Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. I would tell you that picks five through 20, basically in the same bucket. If somebody came to me and was like, Hey, your 17th overall prospect, I have it number seven. I'd go, all right, I don't, but I could probably believe it. The gap is really not that big between prospect six and 20. And then I would say from 20 to 60, the gap is not nearly as big as you think it is. And so you're gonna have, and it's gonna be fun to,

when I say fun, I mean, maybe a little bit challenging, but on draft night, when we're doing our PFF draft show, there might be somebody who's ranked 58th on my board who goes 31. And I will probably say, I don't know who they are off the top of my head, but I will probably go, yeah, okay. Like I could see it.

Like I guess I get it. And that's a 20 spot difference. Normally you'd look at that and you go, Whoa, huge reach. They're way overreaching for this position or for need. And that's just not the case in this draft. So I think that it just brings up a lot of uncertainty of where these guys could go. And even the little bit that I've heard from NFL teams, like, hey, here's a little bit of a sneak peek

of like who they might have on their big board. There are normally, if I get like a top five or a top 10 or something like that, there are normally two to three guys where I go, what, in their top five? And so that's happened a couple of times here for me throughout this draft process. And that makes it even more chaotic for trying to prepare us for the Vikings, because my

theory has been at 24, they will probably have a player that they have in their top 15 that ends up there and they have to decide whether they're going to pass on that player to try to get more picks or whether you stick and pit. And this is why I think there's a very high probability that they do stick and pick because they will look at somebody who slips through the cracks. So who would you like to hear from me? Whether I'm higher or lower on potential Viking process. So we hit two that obviously were very intriguing. The interior offensive lineman.

I honestly, I would just open up the question to you and say, who do you think they would actually pick realistically? Obviously it's like, okay, like Travis Hunter, duh. Who could realistically get to 24 that you would go, yeah, I actually think they'd take this player instead of trade down. Like who are some guys that maybe we're not talking about or I'm not, or you would just want to shout out of like, hey, if these guys there, don't be surprised if they don't trade back and they actually take them.

So I was very annoyed today when I saw Dane Bruegler's mock because my whole hot take of the draft this year was that Jaday Baron will not go as high as a lot of people have them in their mocks and the draft simulator always takes him before I could get him. Sorry, that's on me because I love today, Baron. So, well, you and I are on the same page with our appreciation for him. And his data is fantastic. His numbers are especially tremendous in zone coverage, which the Vikings

are among the highest percentage of zone coverage. And the NFL is just going that way anyway. So I think instincts and playmaking and those types of things, I'm always gonna push those up. Character, I'm gonna push up. For Brian Flores, I think he wants dogs only and that's Baron.

But I also think that his short arms, his maybe lack of lock into a guy, man to man coverage on the outside, that teams just looking back over the past five years do not draft this guy in the top 15. I was trying to find who's a comparable guy on paper to him who has been drafted in the top 15 who had the shorter arms, who was more on his own side. I had a lot of trouble finding that, which I think could be to the benefit of the Vikings. And the example that I used just from last year was like a Quinion

Mitchell or a Terry and Arnold. Like these guys were mocked in the top 15 consistently thought, Oh, there's no chance they get into the twenties. And then they did. So I am probably higher on Baron as a Vikings potential pick, but then brogler he mocks him to the Vikings. I'm like, what? It's you.

You already got the beast. And then now you're taking my. It's why Dane's one of the best man here. Why Dane's one of the best surely. So what do you think of that? Is that a good pick for them? Is that possible to you? Dude scheme.

I absolutely and range on honestly like I have. I have Baron as a top 10 overall player just cause I love him. I think that just the way that this guy approaches the game is so smart. Okay. He didn't have like the longest arms. He's not a man coverage type of a dude, but what he did when he three years ago at safety, what he did two years ago when he was in the slot, what he did last year as an, as an outside corner outside corner should have been his worst position to be honest with you.

And he still had an elite PFF coverage grade led the sec and interceptions really savvy play from that off coverage alignment would come downhill and he'd be a wrap up tackler for you. And with Baron, I remember reading this quote about a year ago from Steve Sarkeesian and you know, it's his it's his coach. So you know, he could be blowing smoke, but he's like, I don't think a lot of people understand everything that we put on this guy's plate, like he plays for, he plays safety for us. He has to play slot for us. He's got to understand like all different sorts of alignments.

He's got to understand his run fits. We, and this, this is even before they put him as an outside corner to add to his diversification. Um, and I just, I just go back to what's, what Sark said about him. And he's just like, I don't think people realize like everything that we put on this guy's plate, and how smart he is as a football player. So I gravitate towards those dudes. I had Quinone Mitchell and Cooper de Jean is top 10 prospects last year, I would not move off of de Jean as

a top 10 prospect, despite like, oh, you know, can he play outside? Is he in the slot? I don't care. He's he is one of the best. That's a guy who I know where his home base is. And like Joday Baron, I know where his home base is. It's in the slot. So if you want to play him outside, you absolutely can. I think this past year showed you, you can get away with that. He can play there in the NFL level. But if he struggles a little bit, you've still got a damn good secondary player somewhere else. It's not like, oh, he didn't work outside. He's not going to be a starter for us.

He is a he's just a really good football player. So I'm into that in a similar vein in which I was in on the gene. So but all that to say, I'm with you. I think the NFL is lower on him than I am. I think Jaday Baron is it back into the first round type of draft pick? And I think he'll be picked somewhere in the 20s. So Minnesota firmly within the range of where he could go. All right. One last one.

There's a lot of defensive tackles who are projected in the back end of the first. Kenneth Grant, Derek Harmon, Walter Nolan. How about of those three? Who are you higher or lower on of those three than the outside world? I have Walter Nolan in. I don't know if the big board officially updated that you're looking at right now, but like yesterday I published it and sometimes we have to like refresh the cash to make sure that it updates on the back. But anyways, I have Walter Nolan as my number eight overall player in this class. And that's a jump up from, I think he was like 22 for me. I remember I'm going through final rechecks and I'm trying to watch at least another game

on a lot of these guys like stay fit fresh for the draft show that we'll have next week. And just to make sure that I feel good about these guys and exactly where they are in my big board is as we get to opening night, if you will. And I watched the Wake Forest game from Walter Nolan. And there is a play of his where he's lined up as a three technique defensive tackle. He is just outside or he is just over actually it might've been a four eye spot.

He might've been over the outside shoulder of the card, whichever one it is. He is lined up pretty close to the guard. He's down a three point stance. He doesn't have a lot of runway. It's not like he's getting a ton of momentum. It's not like he's got five or six steps before he gets to the guard. He is right in front of them, handed the dirt to their three technique or a four. I can't remember where exactly where it was. The ball was snapped. It goes to the quarterback and the shotgun.

He is handing the ball off to the running back. Within two steps, Walter Nolan gets out of his stance, takes another step, gets into the guard, launches him back five feet straight into the running back. And the running back takes the ball, barely holds onto it and falls down. He tackles the running back with the guard right in front of him. That's the sort of rare speed to power athletic ability that Walter no one has. And I understand he's not quite the past rusher that you wanted him to be. He's a little bit chaotic. He's sort of all over the place as a run defender. He's sort of a gap shooter, a little bit more than he is your traditional hold the line of scrimmage, but it is all there for a man.

There is, there is two, I'm not saying he's Jalen Carter, but there is too much Jalen Carter there for me to like say, nah, I wouldn't draft this guy until like, you know, the backend, you know, part of the first round or whatever. I haven't missed top 10 overall prospect just because he is a, a rare athlete. He has rare physical gifts. And this is a player who, you know, you talked about, I'm a little bit wary of some guys like Eman Worry. Oh, who's the other guy, you know, you talked about, I'm a little bit wary of some guys like Eman Worry. Oh, who's the other guy that you said?

Oh, Shamar Stewart. Like I get wary of those guys. I'm not as easy to project them as just, okay, yeah, they're gonna figure it out at the NFL level. Walter Nolan, the flashes and the step up that I saw from him this year, I'm at least ready to say, you got better as a run defender, you got even stronger. You converted speed to power more efficiently. Your effort is fantastic. And your pastor's win percentage got a little bit better this year as well.

All of that is trending up at least in the right direction. And you had some decent backfield production. I, he would be my, my defensive tackle that I would take of those three for Minnesota. You just got married recently. I thought it was to a woman who's on television, but apparently it's the Walter Nolan. I mean, this is some serious love here for Walter Nolan. No, I mean, look, if the Vikings draft Walter Nolan, I mean, I think everyone would be thrilled that a defensive tackle who could develop

behind Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave and they can rotate. And I've been very high on this position because I think it's so hard to find defensive tackles who are special without taking them in the first and second round. I looked at this the other day and I think of the top 20 players the highest paid top 20 highest paid it was something like 16 of them were first or second round draft because it's just absurd and it's very hard to find them in other places. My one hesitation on Walter Nolan would just be statistical only, which is I looked at the top all the top 15 guys and

pressures who were drafted by 2018 or earlier so that have had long enough to establish themselves but aren't like Kalei's Campbell or something. There was only one that I could find who had a lower PFF pass rush grade than Walter Nolan. And you talk about a Jalen Carter or something like he has like a 90 grade and pass rush win rate through the roof. And there are some other guys that have that at Nolan's pass rush win rate,

not being much higher than Kenneth Grant would be the one thing that concerns me there versus Derek Harmon, who I would like him to carry me through the threshold because I've been a Derek Harmon person, uh, based on, I'm just getting into the backfield and making plays on the quarterback. I think you can find big beasts that take up gaps and take up space, but winning quickly, creating pressure quickly, that's Harman's thing. And I was really impressed with him. So I'm probably higher on a Harman like you are on Walter Nolan.

I think a lot of people are. And I think my skepticism for Derek Harman is he makes it look really easy right now. And maybe this is just me being too much of a hater. Like I can, I can fully, if, if we look back on this, you know, three, four years from now and Derek Harman is winning at the NFL level in the similar way to the way that he wanted Oregon, this is one that I'll go, okay, yeah, this is an L for me. It was right in front of me. And I just, I was, I am hesitant that it's going to look as easy for him

in college or sorry, in the NFL, the way that it did this past year. I just, I feel as though he just, it's sort of a, I thought he played more powerful when he was at Michigan state. It was a little bit lighter at Oregon. He lost a little bit of weight to be a better pass rusher. Does he still have that strength level,

that strength base that I really need to see from him to be that NFL like difference making defensive tackle? I just I don't know why I just can't get the reservation out of my head that I don't think it will look as easy for him because there are times when he's sort of selling out to get in the backfield or win one on one where you could tell like he's exposing his chest a little bit more. He's taking a little bit more of a risk. And I think it worked out at the, Oh God, what, uh, what conferences Oregon playing now?

Uh, the big 10, the big 10. Uh, so like it worked for big 10 opponents, but I don't know if that'll consistently work at the same efficiency level as it did at the, in the NFL. So that's sort of my, again, maybe I'm just a Derek Harmon hater and we'll look back on this and it'll be like, Hey, I just didn't take him and how, how he won seriously enough. But again, this is another guy like would love them on day two would love them in the second round. They give you an excellent pick there for, for any team. But, uh, first round is where I'd probably take Kenneth Grant and Walter

Nolan over him. Yeah. Grant is a, probably the highest one for me, but I think he's going to get taken really high in this draft. Well, I can get him in draft Sims, but I can see a team really loving that Vita via type of player that they could develop into more of a pass rush threat because Veo was talked about. Well, he's just going to stuff gaps and stuff, but man, he's he's good at getting in the backfield now.

And Dexter Lawrence was kind of that way. So I think teams will love him. How about we do this? I love that conversation and how we view it differently, especially because I'm focused a lot more on the numbers of what they're saying to me than details of the tape, which you've watched a lot more of. But I want to get to these fan questions.

Every question I asked a bunch of fans on the newsletter and substack. Go sign up purple insider to football to tell me finish the sentence. Am I crazy for thinking blank? So I'm going to throw a couple of you and you could tell me if this person is crazy. So this one comes from Pete. Am I crazy for thinking the Vikings are going to target a coverage linebacker at some point?

Maybe someone like Carson Swessinger if they trade down coverage linebacker. Is that on your radar at all? Is Pete crazy? In theory, no, I don't think that Pete is crazy. I feel like they would draft a safety as a coverage upgrade over a linebacker. I feel like they feel pretty good about how aggressive a lot of their linebackers are.

Maybe they would want more coverage from the linebacker spot, but they're sort of in a weird spot for Carson Schwesinger because he's one of those guys that I think the NFL really likes. And so if you're trading down, maybe you're trading down like the beginning part of the second round and you're drafting him there, but I, he might not even make it at the beginning of the second round from the way that people are talking about him. That's a sneaky bet that I have. I was able to get him, uh, as a prop bet of like a sneaky first round pick that had some pretty high odds.

So I was like, yeah, I've heard enough people talk very highly of him. So, um, I, I, I don't think you take that player at 24. Like I wonder if Malachi starts available for you at 24. So, you know, at that point, I think they'd rather take the coverage plus. From the safety spot than the linebacker spot. So I don't think, I don't think Pete's crazy for this, but, um, I think, I, I do think it's a little bit of a long shot there for them to invest in linebacker. I think if we're talking about someone who's a linebacker, it would have to be

if like Jahad Campbell drops and then he's just too good of a prospect for them to turn down, even though they're already pretty good in that space. How about this one? This one is from Hunter. Am I crazy for thinking JJ McCarthy could be the best quarterback in the NFC North at the end of his first year as a starter? It's Hunter crazy. So that would be Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Caleb Williams.

Uh huh. Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Caleb Williams. I can't say he's crazy because I watched what Kevin O'Connell did with Sam Darnold last year. So I guess I can't call you crazy. I wouldn't be betting on it, but I can understand where the hope and optimism and belief would be because again, I think that if you're a Vikings fan,

man, how could you feel any better about who's making decisions and who is grooming these young quarterbacks and just quarterbacks in general from what we saw from Sam Darnall last year? So look, I still think that Jared Goff is going to be a very solid quarterback for the Detroit Lions. I think you still think that that's going to be a good offense. Jordan Love, I'm not as high on Jordan Love. Like even going into last year, I'm not as high on Jordan lot like even going into last year, I wasn't as high on Jordan Love and I caught a lot of flack from Packers fans because I had him a little bit outside of like my top 10 for quarterbacks. I think I've had him like 12 like

they got Trevor Lawrence at 11 and like Jordan Love at 12 and they're like, there's no way Jordan loves not a top 10 quarterback. And I was like, I don't know, man, I still think some inconsistencies are there for him. And that showed that proved to be the case this past season. Caleb, I think, takes a big step up with Ben Johnson being his coach now. But McCarthy is going to be right in that mix. Again, it's not crazy. I wouldn't bet on it just because playing quarterback for the first time is so difficult. And so I would say that it's much more like not likely than it is likely. But it's hard for me to use the word crazy.

You have given how Sam Darnold played in this offense last year. Yeah, I don't think it's crazy because you have Justin Jefferson also, and that tends to work pretty well for quarterbacks. But at the same time, I mean, until Jared Goff doesn't lead a top five offense, I'm going to continue to just buy Jared Goff. And I know that there's been some playoff performances where some of his weaknesses are shown. Also, their entire defense was hurt last year, which I think

impacted them in that Washington game really badly. But I think with Jared Goff, he's one of the like, no one ever really buys him as an elite quarterback. And yet when you run number one offenses, I don't know what else your job is other than to run offenses that score insane amounts of points. So unless he falls off without Ben Johnson, I will leave him still very high on that list. And then with Caleb Williams, that's the wild card. I think JJ McCarthy weirdly is more projectable than Caleb Williams because it's a new coach and it's a guy who got sacked 600 times.

And how much is he going to change all that in one off season? We will see. All right. One more. OK, G guy GM sends this. Am I crazy to think that due to a more difficult schedule compared to this past year the Vikings should be happy with 10 wins in 2025 Trevor how many wins do you think the Vikings should get is it crazy for GM to think that they would be happy with 10 despite the 14 win season last year and the amount that they spent in free agency yeah um. No, I think that like, honestly, I think sometimes we get away from how difficult it is

to be a double digit win team, even with the extra game with the 17 game schedule. Like I think 10, 11 wins is good for the Vikings. Anytime you're making a change of quarterback at all whatsoever, it's a giant wrench that can be thrown into plans, especially when you are starting one for the first time. I know he's not technically a rookie contractually, but he is a rookie in terms of his first time as a full-time starter there for them. So I still have faith in Brian Flores. I

still have plenty of faith in Kevin O'Connell. I still think this is a really good roster. So they're going to compete and even to be able to say like, yeah, 10, 11 wins. That's what I think. I actually don't know what the over-under is yet. I don't know if that's out yet or whatever. Eight and a half, it is eight and a half. It is eight and a half, wow, okay. I would say that like 10 feels like a good number to shoot for and anytime that like,

if you feel good about 10, that means realistically, I'd go like nine to 11, right? That's normally what you want is like the buffer zone there. And so I'd pretty comfortably say that they'd, you know, be able to sprinkle in, uh, I'd be able to sprinkle in some cheddar on, uh, on them getting over eight and a half. You know, the thing is like Chicago is not going to be a pushover like they were last year. You know, so I think that you're going into that. I think that they maybe think that green Bay is going to be a little bit better.

Um, them. So who do they play from the other divisions with how they finish last year? AFC North and NFC East. This is what this person is really referring to is that that is kind of a murderers row there. Yeah, that's tough. Ten willy Washington. Ten wins. Ten wins. A good target. Ten wins. A good target for this team. That's what I think. Not crazy at all.

Not crazy at all to think if they get to double digits, that could be a successful season and they might even be more prepared to play in the playoffs than they were with a 14 win season. The NFL draft stock exchange podcast is absolutely phenomenal. Trevor Sikama, just look for him on TV. If you I don't even need it. What do I need to promote? You just turn on your television. No, I'm just giving you a hard time, Trevor, but you are the best man. I really do appreciate in an incredibly busy time for you for taking a little time for, uh, for me. So thanks so much, man. Uh, good to talk with you again.

Covering the league from a national perspective is I always enjoy getting to come on some more, you know, uh, micro shows where we're looking at, like we're looking at the details. When I say micro, I don't mean that you have a small audience. I mean that it's like, okay, we're just focusing on this team. And I get to talk to somebody that knows the team very, very well. So I always love coming on this show, Matthew. I appreciate you having me on.

God, we can do this. You learned about the new Vikings assistant offensive line coach hired. I did promise you missed. So there you go. Thanks again, Trevor. And we'll talk to y'all soon.