Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is The Athletic's Alec Lewis ready to talk about Sam Darnold vs. JJ McCarthy?

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with Alec Lewis of The Athletic about Sam Darnold's recent performance making things interesting for his future, whether the Vikings are now a legitimate Super Bowl contender and what weaknesses might make their path deep into the playoffs tricky Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center along with Alec Lewis of The Athletic and his podcast, The Alec Lewis Show, which you can find audio wherever you get your podcasts, also on YouTube as well. Make sure you check that out. And what I like to do when Alec comes on the show is torture him with predictions or things that I know that he really doesn't want to discuss as a very serious journalist that you are, Alec. So let's play a game. It's going to be called

Are We Ready to Talk About? It's a fun game where we dive into things that we're not quite sure about where it's going yet, but we might be getting closer to being sure. So a great place to begin is, are we ready to talk about Sam Darnold and the future of the quarterback position? Because I get asked this a lot by other people go on radio shows things like that they always want to ask and what I say is I'm not ready to talk about it but after last week I became a little more ready to talk about it where are you on the subject of Sam Darnold and the future of the quarterback position for the Minnesota Vikings first of all thanks for having me on the show if

you're watching this on your streaming platform that you're watching, you can, for some reason you look so much taller than me. You look like you're like a power forward and I'm like a shooting guard. I don't know if that's because I'm slouching. I don't really know what the situation is. Second off, I'm not going to be ready to talk about anything that you're going to try to put me on. So I told you that before the podcast and I'm not moving off that. I don't like speculation. I am in the week to week, day to day, snap by snap type of opportunity. But the future of the quarterback position for an NFL franchise seems like it's pretty important. You'd

agree, right? You'd probably say that talking about the quarterback is something we do on a daily, hourly basis. And as it relates to Sam Darnold, I mean, maybe I'm not ready to talk about it, but I think it's something you kind of have to start thinking about because two floors above us in the executive offices at this very building, it is a conversation that either they are talking about or they have on their minds. Obviously, I don't know when you're going to run this, but we're recording on a Tuesday. And yesterday, Daniel Jones was a subject of discussion with head coach Kevin O'Connell. He definitely did not say that they were disinterested in Daniel Jones. And so we'll see what happens. But as it relates to Sam

Darnold, I mean, I think there's a lot involved with this discussion and we can hash it out over the back and forth that we're probably about to have. But to me, it's going to be a lot. It really it hinges on two things. One, how well will Sam Darnold play over this next stretch? And how does how he plays affect the overall market for him? And then two, for for sam darnold specifically like this is a guy and you know this collar but like this is a guy who the the buildings that he began his nfl career in in new york and in carolina he knows better than probably anybody daniel jones probably high on the list uh what it is like when you're in suboptimal environments and how important it is to be in optimal environments. So for him, regardless of what the cost is going

to be for him and what another team might be willing to pay him, I think a priority for him is going to be being in a situation that puts him in an optimal spot. And so those are two aspects of it. Obviously, we could talk about J.J. McCarthy's health and that plays a role, but I'm not really giving you an answer in terms of if you want me to say whether I think he's going to be back or not. I think it's ultimately it's going to depend on how he plays throughout the back half of the season, what that means for the price that another team might be willing to pay him, and then where the Vikings are in terms of realizing J.J. McCarthy's health and where they want to take kind of their vision

for the position moving forward. First of all, I would be a problem for you on the basketball court. I would because I am bigger than you, and I'll push you straight down, drop a little Dirk Nowitzki fadeaway on you. You get swatted, too. You got to remember, the the question is are you ready to talk about it so i think what you just said was not really but are they you think that they're talking about it i mean because i think that the vikings front office has to have different paths

and plans they have to have they probably had this once upon a time with Kirk Cousins, where if he signs an extension after 2022, what is the plan going to be for the roster? And if he doesn't sign an extension, what's it going to be? And you have to play that out over a couple of years, because now that they've had the success that they had, they're not going to just be going year to year. The leadership here is getting extensions and they're going to be making longer term two to three year type of window plans. So if you have to sign Sam Darnold, you've got an option of trying to sign him to a short term deal, keeping JJ McCarthy around kind of Jordan loving JJ McCarthy, which is not the worst plan I've ever heard of.

There's the franchise tag. So you could just say, let's see this for one more year. And then if we go deep in the playoffs again, and you play like a top 10 quarterback again, then we'll pay you like that. After that, I think that all the contracts they gave out this off season were based on him not playing this well. I mean, the fact that they gave Jefferson and Derrissaw and then signed all these defensive players, they were very likely thinking, well, he's going to play five games and then JJ McCarthy is going to take over and that'll be the rest of our life. But things change.

And to get to nine and two and to have top 10 PFF grade, top 10 quarterback rating, whatever way you want to evaluate it and to play with the level of consistency that he's played, he's really had one game where he was horrible with the interceptions and then he didn't play well against the jets the rest of the season even in the losses he's just been really really good and at some point you go back to 2022 and expand that sample size and go wait a minute it's actually been a while since this guy hasn't been good. Like maybe this is closer to who he really is, the quarterback that he was expected to be when he was coming out. They've got to be wondering after his recent performances, is this the real player? And maybe we just fell kind of backwards into a pot of gold.

Well, here's what I'd say. Part of this entire season and why probably the folks listening didn't have the grandest expectations was because the Vikings, rather than paying Kirk Cousins $40 million a year, they preferred to build around the young quarterback contract. And in doing so, while kind of providing insurance, they signed Sam Darnold at $10 million. So let's say you mentioned the franchise tag. So let's say that franchise tag is around $35 million or $33 million or $30 million. That's pretty close to what the cost would have been for Kirk Cousins. So for me, while I agree with you completely, if you go back to the end of Sam Darnold's time in Carolina, and I wrote about this prior to the season. Ben McAdoo and the job that he did with

Sam at the end of that Panthers run was very similar in that it was a lot about feet and eyes, rhythm and timing, and putting him in situations with a solid running game, with fair pass protection, with skilled players that obviously are not like the ones he had now, but serviceable skilled players. And so it's why really, and I probably said this on the show when you had me in Cleveland, but I didn't think Sam Darnold playing well was like this big fluke thing. And I thought really, like throughout this season, you've done radio hits, I've done radio hits, and people say all the time, is Sam Darnold just going to turn back into Sam? And I always say, well, is Sam Darnold going to to turn back into Sam and I always say well is Sam

Darnold going to turn is Quincy Inunua just going to come and be the best receiver that he has is his offensive line going to be going to become terrible all of a sudden is Adam Gase going to somehow become the Vikings head coach all of a sudden because if that happens then yes he might be the guy that that originally uh he was in. Otherwise, I think, like you mentioned the PFF grades, he is, I think, third in big time throw rate among all starters behind Josh Allen and some other sorcerer of a quarterback. And then his turnover worthy play rate is pretty high. That's the one aspect of his game that the people listening to this know is a concern. All of that is to say

it's a lot of rambling I'm going on a lot of different paths but I would say that like part of this entire season was to transition to a roster building structure where you could build around a a small quarterback contract to disperse your your your roster capital and your salary cap space elsewhere. And I don't think, though I've been very impressed by Sam, and I think internally they've been very impressed by what he's done, I don't think they are going to shift off that path of where they were going to take things from a roster building strategy perspective. Would you agree with that?

I do agree with that. There is a bar where you're just, your hand is forced and that bar is probably NFC championship. And over these last six games, if he puts his name in the MVP race, which he's not that far away from the other top quarterbacks in the league in terms of statistically, but if he gets on a heater and plays like he has the last two weeks for the rest of the season, if they beat the Packers, if they run the Falcons out of here and he throws for 350 yards and all these things, they might just get to the end and go, the sample is so big of him playing really, really, really excellent football, top 10 football, that I think there is a roster building

theory where if you have a top 10 quarterback, you have to keep him. And it is not random that this guy can throw the ball like this. This is why he was drafted. This is a huge factor in it is the raw physical talent. The thing about Brock Purdy that everyone was so caught up on last year is he doesn't have raw physical talent like this. So you're always asking, is it going to run out if there isn't the things around him? But with Sam Darnold, the things around him are going to be here for one. Everyone's under contract going forward, including the head coach and those throws that he makes the rockets into traffic, the deep balls that have been fantastic. This is something we saw during training camp. It isn't, Hey, let's throw a balloon up into the sky and see if it falls in somebody's hands. No, the deep accuracy and the tight window throwing

and things like that, that's repeatable for someone with his skill. That makes it a harder decision. But if it's anything short of that bar, they also could think, well, we just did this with someone who was flawed and someone who did not have a great history. Why can't we develop a JJ McCarthy

who was getting closer to being neck and neck in training camp he was not even with Sam Darnold but if he had gone to those joint practices in Cleveland maybe he would have had a chance to get first team reps and make the the decision actually much more difficult for who was going to start he had that good of an offseason yeah I would agree and I would I would just um just put an exclamation point behind what you said about like the arm talent I mean that is like that is the thing that you can't just like find that on the street you know everyone says like well why don't they just continue to bring in bridge guys and do that what's like again the guy was drafted where

he was because he has an exceptional amount of arm talent and as we've seen an ability to play a little bit out of structure now when he does that again you start to wade into the spectrum of like no no no don't don't why would you throw like that that is part of his game but I think and this is a credit to the coaching staff and it's a credit to Sam's development of like he's definitely especially in recent, you can tell that he's really been intentional about mitigating that stuff as much as possible. But I'm in agreement with you. Like if you make the NFC Championship, if you perform incredibly well down this stretch, then it be. Yeah. I mean, there's no question it becomes a harder conversation. And that's why I mean, I say you said like I'm not really ready to talk, but I think it's I think it's worth harder conversation. And that's why, I mean, I say, you said like, I'm not really ready to talk about it. I think it's worth talking about. And it's pretty fascinating. You have a team that entered a season thinking this would be like a short bridge to the roster building

infrastructure that I talked about. And then it's almost like you're always balancing the short term and the long is such a fascinating thing. And it applies to the Daniel Jones conversation as well. But it's like, they have done such a good job from a coaching standpoint to get Sam playing at the level that he has that you almost run into this like, wait, but should we pay him? It's a pretty interesting, fascinating thing. And then on your J.J. McCarthy conversation like I completely agree you and I sat in Cleveland um and it was pretty brutal getting the news that he was done for the year with the torn meniscus obviously because right before that we had seen

him play against the Raiders and if you go like I haven't done this very often but there are a couple maybe a couple weeks ago I went back and just watched his highlights from that game. And I was just like, I can't like it was really freaking impressive what he did in that game. So I still think there is a very there is a very high level of commitment from the people inside this building that they want him to be the guy. He is the quarterback of the future. I think the only thing standing in the way of that is obviously health uh first and foremost and then sam uh finding the heater throughout the back half of the season that leads us to having to travel a lot come the the late

winter more than maybe we thought we would originally yeah i'm regretting spending my travel budget on jacksonville because uh i'm gonna have to spend a lot more on the playoffs i think well that's the worst city in the world so that was your problem anyway i i just can't disagree with that at all there was nothing there but anyway uh i think the way that i would view it are we ready to talk about is we're standing at the screen door of being ready to talk about. You're not outside, but you're almost outside, and you can smell outside, and you can see outside. You can smell and see Sam Darnold is this team's quarterback

next year and the future, but you're not walking through that door quite entirely yet. It would have been locked like a bank vault door at the beginning of the season, but now it's a screen door. Now it's a, like, this is possible, but it really does depend. You've got four home games. You've got teams that are beatable, but they're also pretty good. And they've got good quarterbacks too. And they also have this option in their back pocket of franchise tagging Darnold, which would be maybe the best option if he ends up taking them to a certain point.

But if they stumble and they end up with 11 wins and a first round out, then it's a fairly easy choice to go to McCarthy. I also don't think it's the worst thing in the world ever to have the Packers view of something and go, it's not that bad if as long as the guy could stay patient like Jordan Love did, it's not that bad to have that guy get a couple years of development. I mean, it sounds like some sort of tragic situation. Like, what if J.J. McCarthy has to sit and becomes 23 when he starts?

That's exactly what I was going to say. It's like he's still so young. I don't know if he's still 21 or he just turned 22 or he might turn 20, but he's just still so young. And the other aspect that I kind of touched on is like, I think Sam Darnold's understanding of what type of infrastructure are important for him. Like you wonder what if he's like, you know what, I would resign here for 20, like 25. Now, again, I don't know if that would be the case, if he would do that. But I generally think of guys that I've been around who would be willing to be in the correct situation over just signing for the money. He would be that guy. I really believe that.

Like, I think talking to people, we'll see what level it rises to. And then, again, if the franchise tag is what it is, you're right in terms of we're at the screen door, not fully ready to talk about it. And I will also say, I try not to – every week in this league makes you think the best or the worst. Right now, Sam Darnold, we're talking about him very highly. But again, you look at the turnover turnover worthy play rate from this past game, there were multiple throws that could have been intercepted. And how would we have been talking about it? If he throws two picks and they lose the game, then what would the conversation be? You're always teetering on that back and forth. So again, that's why I think we're not ready to talk about it because we want to see down the stretch against some good teams what it continues to look like or doesn't.

OK, how about this one? Are you ready to talk about the Minnesota Vikings as a legitimate Super Bowl contender? Not favorite necessarily, because we know which team is the biggest favorite in the National Football Conference. But do you think that the vikings belong in the discussion they have i believe the fourth highest point differential in the nfl this year which has always to me been a very good metric of your overall strength how much do you outscore the other teams by and even though it should have been 11 in this last game and not three in overtime they still are up there with the best teams in the league outside of Detroit in terms of point differential.

But are you taking this entire team seriously enough after four wins against four bad teams to call them a Superbowl contender? You ready to talk about that? Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from us cellular. Not sure what that means. Here's a hint give the gift of connection from us cellular not sure what that means here's a slightly more specific hint you can choose four free phones and get four lines for

90 a month from us cellular your family wants new phones how do we know they told us the good news is that compared to wrapping presents you are great at getting hints. So take a hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month. U.S. Cellular, built for us. Not fully. Now, I will say this. The coaching, to me, makes me feel ready to talk. Like, the coaching level makes me feel that way. But the reality is, and I've said this many times,

they absorb $68 million in dead cap space, and they have struggled in the draft the way they have even before Kweisi Udo Fomensa got here. And so from a talent level perspective, to me, I just still wonder if the gap is too far to climb against a Lions team that has hit on the draft like they they are savants like the Eagles which I mean they just have worlds of talent you watch that team you watch Jalen Carter like Milton Williams the guy's unbelievable their offensive line is great Quinion Mitchell and Cooper to Jean at corner. I just, for me, this roster,

like I feel like they have done as the coaching has done and the players really themselves have done as good of a job squeezing as much out of the orange as they can. And maybe that leads to the second round of the playoffs. Maybe that leads to the NFC title game. But for me, the three things that really prevent me from going all the way there are the turnovers offensively. They still rank really high in the NFL in the amount of turnovers. They're giving up a lot of explosive plays defensively. And I feel like when the pass rush does not get home, there is space and coverage. And then just some of the injury stuff. Cam Robinson at left tackle. if he's not healthy,

David Questenberry can do an admiral job. He's done it for a while. But can you be as explosive as you need to be offensively to put yourself in that conversation? I don't want to fully say that I'm totally not ready to go there because I do have so much faith in the coaching, especially against some of these other coaches around the league. I really think it is an, it is a clear edge, but I just, I just,

from a talent perspective, it's hard for me to get all the way there. And I feel bad saying it because you know me, like I want to be, I want to be there. It's just like, I just know the talent on some of these other teams. And it, it, it And I mean, like I watched the Ravens last night and their their offensive explosiveness. I'm like, it's at a level that is historic, really, in the last 10 years. So I would be curious what you would say to that. Well, I guess I would look at it like this. What qualifies a Super Bowl contender? And historically, I've looked back through the numbers that are the bar to reach to where if you get into the playoffs with these numbers, you have a chance to compete for a Super Bowl.

The two big numbers are 12 wins and a plus 100 point differential. Almost every team of the last 20 years that has gone to the Super Bowl has those two markers with some random exceptions. The Giants team that had a negative point differential and went to the Super Bowl has those two markers with some random exceptions. The Giants team that had a negative point differential and went to the Super Bowl. But aside from that, the vast majority reached those two markers. And the one other marker is an expected points added through the passing game. They're in the top 10. The Vikings are on track to reach all of those markers. They could easily win 12 games. If they get three more, they are plus 76, 74. So they're within shouting distance of a plus 100 point differential.

And right now they are seventh in expected points added through the past, which is the thing that's going to guide you through the playoffs. They are also a very good past defense. And on the defensive side, there's some markers there too. You have to hold opposing quarterbacks under a 90 quarterback rating. Usually if it's over that, that's probably not a good enough defense to hold down in the playoffs. They are currently at all these markers. They have six opponents that are good or at least ish that have good quarterbacks. And this is what I really want to see tested is they have had great

defensive times against bad quarterbacks or a team like Houston that has turned out to be much worse offensively than we thought that they ran out of the U S bank stadium. Kyler Murray's been here before Gino Smith. They got to go play him. Kirk cousins is very familiar with the noise in us bank stadium. And then Jordan love Jared golf. Like this is a run of quarterbacks. got to go play him kirk cousins is very familiar with the noise in u.s bank stadium and then jordan love jared goth like this is a run of quarterbacks it's going to be difficult with lots of weapons

star receivers left and right and can you slow them down enough to maintain that ranking as a defense that would convince me that you could do it defensively in down the stretch because they have the offensive markers I think to at least be in the discussion and then and then it's all percentages it's all right the NFC has probably about a 50 chance of being represented by the Detroit Lions if not higher than that so who's got the rest of the percentages and how you'd give a little more to the Eagles but then after that well that yeah, that I completely agree with that. I was thinking about, as you were talking, like there was a Bill Belichick podcast earlier

this year where he said something that just hit for me. I don't know why, but he said, you know, great teams have to be able to throw when you know, they have to throw, they have to be able to run when you know, they have to run. They have to be able to stop the run when you know, they're running and stop the pass when you know, have to run. They have to be able to stop the run when you know they're running and stop the pass when you know they're throwing the ball. And with the Vikings, I think they can throw when you know they're going to throw, and I think they can stop the run when you know the other team's going to run. Those other two facets of the team, running offensively, it's been good at times.

Aaron Jones is obviously extremely talented and better than they've had the last two years, but I still have questions on the interior of the offensive line. And then in past coverage, again, I think Cam Bynum, I think Harrison Smith, Byron Murphy Jr., they've done an admirable – Stephon Gilmore, they've done an admirable job, but against really good skill players that are going to have time because their offensive lines are good, the Eagles and the lions

i i have in some ways questions but but i also again like i go back to my thought about coaching it's like you know if you get in the playoffs and brian flores puts together one of his bespoke game plans that makes it some the quarterback doesn't know what he's looking at then who knows and i think that's that's what i mean the fact that we're even having this conversation a nine and two Vikings team are we ready to talk about them being as like that is a testament to a hell of a job done in a lot of facets and I don't want that to lose sight I don't want anybody even including myself to lose sight of that just given the constraints that that this season began with so I you know when when we talk about how they match up with those other teams, and I think that's a really good framing that you have there

of when Caleb Williams needs to get a big play against your defense, he's able to get it. And when Jared Goff needed it most to go win the game, he got it. And Matthew Stafford, when he needed a dagger drive, he got it. And this was kind of a signature of them last year where they needed to stop Cincinnati. They couldn't do it. They needed to stop Detroit on a couple of drives. Couldn't do it. Even Justin Fields led last year. And I know it's a different team, but against this type of defense, the way I look at this

entire team, you mentioned the turnovers is that it has a wider range of outcomes than a lot of teams because they play for variance. They play for home runs, not for singles and bunting guys to second base. It's big passes down the field. And against Chicago, they had no idea what to do on those deep developing routes. But if you get after Sam Darnold, and we've seen other teams that were able to force Sam Darnold to throw underneath and were able to force him into a little bit of confusion and a little bit of hold on to the football too long. And when those big deep balls haven't hit for the Vikings, their offense does stagnate. And you do have three and outs because they don't just pound the football away consistently

at five yards of carry like they were able to do against Chicago. But for most of the season, that hasn't been the case. And on the defensive side, one thing I click on first on PFF, when I open up the whole game grade thing is how the other quarterback did against the Blitz. And the last couple of weeks, the quarterbacks have done pretty well against the Blitz, but that might swing completely differently because that's what happens with Blitzing. Caleb Williams did totally fine against it. And we'll love it. Surprisingly actually did too, other than some sacks, but those, if they hit can completely wreck game plans. So the defense needs sacks and interceptions that destroy drives from the other team. But how do you predict when those are coming?

You need the other team to screw up in order for you to be a great defense. That sounds less predictive into the playoffs than a defense that just gives up three and a half yards per play or something like that. I'll also say we're on week 13 and we have, have whatever, five regular season games to go six and I think specifically defensively health is incredibly important so part of it is I I would imagine over a five game stretch you five game stretch you hope that no critical defensive player gets injured but if that were the case I think it becomes very hard for this defense to maintain its level. Like I think, you know, it was interesting. Blake Cashman was out and the Vikings obviously lost both games. Now we'll see with Ivan Pace Jr. He obviously hurt his hamstring in the Chicago game,

but I think if he's out, then Blake Cashman has to do a lot of the blitzing and Kamu Grugier-Hill is in coverage. And I would say Blake is not as good of a blitzer as Ivan Pace. I don't think Kamu is as good of a coverage player in the middle of the field as Blake Cashman. And so I think for this defense to give it as good of a run as possible to win that variance that you talked about, they need to be healthy. It's hard for me. I mean, I just know how violent this sport is to really see that. But I think that's exactly right.

This team, really, it is can we just take the top off explosively, offensively, and defensively? Can we create turnover, sacks, splash plays? Like Brian Flores always taught. And that mitigates giving up some explosive passes. Like if you can create the negatives, then you can live with some of that stuff. So it is a very hard team to predict in that regard. You're exactly right.

One thing that has developed that I didn't know it would was Jonathan Grenard is a consistent force for the defense, which does help to some extent. But it feels fragile. It all feels fragile. When Cam Robinson's down in the field, you're like, Oh, okay, let's see who's over there. And if he's out for any significant amount of time, they might have to go to a rookie over there at left tackle, uh, in maybe Walter Rouse. I depends on how many weeks probably, but you can't ask question Barry to play six, seven games

into the playoffs and so forth uh so we'll see there then when robinson is playing how's the toe is he able to run block is he able to to get it you know put his foot in the ground if you will and be the same version that he was when he first got here and then you know they feel it all feels very like if one thing falls then they all fall apart like the jenga game kind of thing. And on the defense, it is 100% that because if Stephon Gilmore were to go out or Byron Murphy Jr. Had a great year.

If he were to go out, then you're asking Fabian Morrow to come in or Dwight McClother and after him, and that's an undrafted rookie. And they move on from a Caleb Evans. So they don't have a whole lot of depth there or even it's safety if something were to happen then you're moving metellus back and then there's no one to play the metellus role i guess the o jackson better in the box too right so but what i would say to you is like it's interesting i can imagine somebody listening to this is like man i why is it so does it feel like a jenga where if you pull, well, I mean, the reality, again,

when you absorb that much dead cap, when you make the transition that they've made, when you haven't drafted, I mean, the 2022 draft, we're talking on Tuesday, they waived Nick Muse on Monday. So really the only player with the meaningful role from that entire draft was six round pick Jalen Naylor when that's the case. And then your next draft, you have Jordan Addison, but I'm forgetting other guys that are making impacts from that draft besides undrafted Ivan Pace Jr. Then you're left with a roster that is thin on the margins. And that's where it becomes tough for me to get over that hump that I want to get over because it's been an awesome year in general, but I think, you know, you almost want the job that the coaching staff has done,

really the job the front office with some of their signings, the job the players have done. You mentioned Grenard. I mean, this guy, every single week, the intensity that he's playing with, both stopping the run as a pass rusher, he's dropped into coverage 43 times which is like i

think more than any other like serious edge rusher who can rush the passer like he can for the job like you want that guy to beat to get paid off in terms of the effort that he's put in so um yeah it's i i want to get there it's just i don't i'm not I don't know if I'm fully ready. Well, every team is going to have questions like this, and health is always going to be a factor. Though the thing that would hold you up is, let's say you're in Philadelphia and you're saying, oh, well, you know, if we lose this guy on defense, then it's a little more dicey.

Their quarterback has been to a Super Bowl. Their offensive line is unbelievable, and those two things are probably consistent. The Vikings don't have a quarterback that has a track record that you would say, Hey, they can survive anything. It's not like Allen. It's not like my homes. If it is much more of, well, if you don't have the defense play like this,

Ken Darnold, he's been fantastic, but can he be that good? Can he elevate it? I kind of thought last week was an elevation game because they... The Titans too, in my opinion. Right. He played well enough to go back and forth with those defenses, which actually might be better than some of the defenses they're about to face in Arizona and Atlanta for sure. But the point just being that there isn't a sample size of this, of are you winning

shootouts with Darnold? And you might have to as we go down the stretch, and there's more to prove there. So I'm not there yet, but I could be. He could convince me that he can just run this team the way that Kirk Cousins had to do in 2022 and just outscore people. How about this one for one last one? Because we got to go to coordinators here. Are we ready to talk about very long-term contract extensions for Kweisi D'Affomenta and Kevin O'Connell?

Not, are we ready to talk about extensions? They'll get extensions. What are you going to fire them like after this year? No. But are we ready to talk about four-year contract extensions, five-year contract extensions for these two gentlemen who have led this organization you see my stat on twitter and blue sky by the way why not what was your stat when the vikings have their starting quarterback since kevin o'connell took over they are 26

and 10 when they have their starting quarterback. It's pretty good. They're also 25 and two when they break even or when the turnover margin. And I believe league average for that stats like 65%. So well above it. Only team better than them is the Kansas city chiefs. I don't know if you've heard of them. They're pretty good. They got a pretty good quarterback. Well, coach, am I ready to talk about that?

Yeah. A hundred percent. I am. They got a pretty good quarterback, well coached. Am I ready to talk about that? Yeah, 100%. I am. What I would say is, I mean, the fact that the Wilfs did not extend either one of them before the season, ultimately with how this has gone, has been a great gift to those two because they have immense leverage. And, like, I mean, I think what to me it's almost at this point what are they going to do I mean specifically with Kevin O'Connell what are they going to do let him walk out the building can you imagine the reaction not only from you guys listening the

fans probably not only from us but the players I mean this they would ride for this guy to no end you you every conversation you have individually I've had conversations with players who are like, why isn't that happened yet? And so what I would say would be, I mean, the way this season has gone, the job that they've done given the constraints, and I will say some of those constraints, the draft is a part of that. But I think the job that they've done, they are deserving of that. I think like, you know, Kweisi Adolfo-Mensah is such an interesting character and probably deserves his own discussion itself.

I'm one, and you and I have talked about this off the mic, but I think the draft is so interesting to me because like all the data would prove that your results in the draft over a three-year period don't have any stickiness to your results over the next three-year period. And so I would ask, I often wonder how much of the draft is just uncertain, is unpredictable, is kind of you're throwing darts versus you have some brain ability to identify an 18-year-old or whatever, 20-year-old who's going to be great at 26. It's a very hard challenge. The reality is it doesn't matter how unpredictable it is or uncertain. They've got to improve in that regard to sustain this thing over time. But I think Kweisi is a guy who is willing to learn.

I think over time with this leadership group and with Kevin O'Connell and Brian Flores, the defensive coordinator, the more you realize what you're looking for, the qualities you need to target. And so I think to remove any of what has been built over three years in terms of just understanding relationships, knowing how people operate, I think that would affect the trajectory that

this franchise is on, which I would think you would agree is a, I mean, it's a pretty solid trajectory. If you look around the league, like I wrote this after they beat the Colts, they beat the Jaguars, they beat the Titans. Those franchises, those teams, their quarterback situations, their coach situations, they're a mess. The Vikings are in like an entirely different class from an organization perspective. And I think a lot of that is a testament to the leadership right now. So there's a micro and macro type of view of leadership of a team. The micro is let's dive into every single move that they've made with a microscope and say, oh, you know, it looks like they should have taken Kyle Hamilton down there. Well, that may be true. I would look at the macro as being more important

if you're talking about long-term leadership, which is the functionality. How does it function? How does the coach and his staff, including Brian Flores, interact with the general manager? Are they on the same page? Are they pulling in the same direction? Can the general manager execute what the coaching staff needs? And there is no better example of that than the defense this year. That the front office, and Kweisi Adafomense is just one person with a lot of people, scouts, Rob Brzezinski is such a huge part of this front office, but can those guys in the front office under the leadership of Kweisi get Stephon Gilmore here at the last moment to save the secondary? Can they find ways to negotiate the right types of contracts with Van Ginkle, Cashman, Grenard to get them here? But that doesn't happen without Kevin O'Connell and this being a place that players want to be.

It works off of each other. One of the dumbest things that I've heard people say is like, well, O'Connell is the one who drafted Jordan Addison. They all drafted Jordan Addison, like the whole organization drafted him. And by the way, real quick on the draft, I wonder about if we looked at the overall value of Addison, Hawkinson, and even just Ivan Pace and compared that to the last three years of drafting to a lot of teams in just pure value what those guys have brought to the minnesota vikings and those are all draft picks so sometimes you hit on less but you get more like rick spielman missed on a lot but he got them derisaw and jefferson and i don't know you work around what happens in the draft but the point just being that oh they've only drafted like 14 players or something. I'm not ready to say that they don't know what they're doing in terms of drafting because they've only

drafted this many players into the future. It's more about how does this thing operate? And when things happen and things change, how do they respond to that? Even, you know, there's a lot made of the Dallas Turner and how much they gave up, which of course not declaring that one yet at all. But I think part of that was having a backup plan trading for that second first round pick in case they needed it to go get JJ McCarthy. So they have operated in such a competent way. And when you look around the league and you go, there's owners that are forcing GMs and coaches to do these crazy things and everything else from the ownership to the GM to the coach. This is where this is where you want to be. What it makes it harder for is discussion, because, I mean, my three my top three free agents were Cashman, Van Ginkle and Grenard.

I never thought they'd get them like all of them. Right. They that what do we all want them to do in the draft? Draft the top quarterback that Kevin O'Connell liked, they did it without giving up the second round pick. So they've been able to build this team much more fast and successfully and coach them. Well, it makes it harder to criticize things. And if you're the front office or if you're the ownership, also, you have to consider too, how controversies? None. I mean, it's the most boring. It never makes the headlines. It has not been Kumbaya. And I think even honestly, Kweisi, Kevin O'Connell, Brian Flores, you mentioned Rob Brzezinski, other executives upstairs, two floors up,

probably have a microphone listening to us. I think they would even be, they would be honest and admit to you, especially off the mic, like there have been arguments. There have been, why did we do this? I cannot believe we did that. Why is he operating that way? But again, I think time together through those discussion points, seeing what works and what didn't, evaluating decisions. The one thing about Kwesi that I always give him credit for is he is very, he's to admit a, when, when he feels like he didn't do something appropriately and be like that, he needs to go back and learn why decision failed, because there are a lot of people in this industry, a lot, and you know, this better than I

do, because you've done it longer than I have, who have a level of ego that think what they do is always the right way. The decision making is always someone else's fault when it didn't work. And I think there is an ownership with some of these guys that even when it's not perfect and discussions go get awry and things get tense and all that stuff, that they've kind of found their way through. And I think there's value in that. And there's surplus value in that in a league that has so much changing so many different decision makers so much mayhem ownership meddling like i just think there is there is surplus value and having continuity um i think it's one and and i think that's one of the i mean it's a benefit to

the direction of this organization i would say well you want to be kansas city andy reed you want to be pittsburgh mike tomlin you want to be these teams that are always in the mix. Look at the AFC playoff picture. Look at the coaches. It's all the same guys. It's all the same coaches that are always running these successful franchises while everybody else, especially New York teams, bumble around like a bunch of fools. And these teams keep winning just on competence alone. But I do think this first 11 games of the season, and we'll see how it goes from here, because you never call it until it's over.

We learned that in Chicago. There could always be an onside kick. But what we've learned, I think, so far, to now say that they're in position to make the playoffs with at least nine wins right now, is that they've answered a lot of the questions we had. We were asking, can Kevin O'Connell and Brian Flores elevate a roster that is expected to win six games

or seven games? Can this front office go into free agency and spend wisely? Can they get the future franchise quarterback? Can they look like a team that is on the cusp of something? That was all I was looking for by the end of the year, and they've overachieved even that. So we have a lot of new information. If you were to ask us the same question, are you ready to talk about extensions? I would have said probably not before the season.

I need to see how this plays out. But now that we've seen it, I think we have a good sense for where they stand. Just we got to go. Sure. Could talk all day. How many wins you think they end up with um what are they at nine i think uh 12 or 13 probably i i just i mean look

i think kyler murray is very good and i think the falcons are going to be no joke even though kurt cousins is one of the highest turnover worthy play rates this year as a quarterback pretty interesting because usually mitigates those um I think they can run the football, so that game's going to be interesting. And then I think the Packers and Lions are so well coached down the stretch. I mean, I think the Seahawks, they just shut down the Cardinals run game. That was one of their weak points. So I'll say at least three more wins to me makes sense. And again, like, yeah, I mean, you just rattled off everything, but they also extended Justin Jefferson. They kept him here.

They extended Christian Derusaw. They got that done. They need to draft better. Like, I want that for this to be sustainable moving forward, even with the rookie quarterback contract. They have to do that. I don't have the answers on how they make that happen. I think it's funny.

I obviously, like, are the scouts like it just, they just, they just have to pick the right players. However, whatever process they need to implement to do that on a more consistent basis, they need to do, but all in all 12,

13 wins. That fair. I think it's trade all the picks and only do undrafted guys. That's where they get their best players. But yeah, I got them in 12. So anyway, well,

we got to run to press conferences here. But thank you. The Alec Lewis Show, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. And well, this show also. Yeah. Good. Nice to plug your own show. Yeah, it is.

Thanks for coming on, man. Thanks for having me. Football.