Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is there any move more popular than a Jefferson extension?

Episode Date: June 3, 2023

Matthew Coller and Jonathan Harrison talk about Justin Jefferson's ideal contract after he missed OTAs again and why a JJ extension is the most universally supported take in Minnesota sports Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself. Build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot route style. Earl! Johnny!

With our spin on football headlines, with a mix of frozen tundras. Let's be a cold-weather team. Neck rolls. I can't move! And grass-stained jerseys. The good old-fashioned guts was probably the biggest difference in the game. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Hot Routes.

And yes, I did bring back the Oakley sunglasses because, I mean, everybody felt like the takes were stronger, hotter. I don't know. Maybe it's like another persona where I just turn up the heat once I put these on. But yes, the show is presented by Oakley, if you don't remember from watching last week. And yes, every week we do Hot Routes, I will be wearing these. So anyway, Matthew Collar, Jonathan Harrison here as always. we do hot routes i will be wearing these so uh anyway matthew collar jonathan harrison here as always and we've got a lot to discuss surrounding the minnesota vikings jonathan another otas where justin jefferson was not present and uh kevin o'connell did not seem

thrilled by that as i would not expect any head coach in the NFL to be. We have tried to quell the hot takeage about Justin Jefferson, like let's not be calling for trades or say the guy's not a leader or something. One thing that I always think about is the men in black effect we have with football, where once something is over, we just forget about it. And I guess that reference is still fresh because they made another Men in Black fairly recently. But, you know, if those not familiar with the movie, Will Smith has a little thing that makes people's memories go blank after they've seen Aliens or whatever.

And it's kind of like that. Think about with Lamar Jackson. At one point with Lamar Jackson, he was having a guy who's making exercise equipment with him, calling NFL teams, seeing if he could get any offers. That's crazy. He's tweeting his way through it. Also a crazy thing to do when you're a franchise quarterback, just fire it off tweets about

your contract extension. The minute it was signed, nobody talked about Lamar Jackson anymore. Back to OTAs, the man's out there and I'm seeing articles about how his new offensive coordinator is going to make everything great. And that is how football works. Whatever is the most dramatic thing at the moment, we just turn it up to 13 and we have whatever hot takes we can come up with and we overreact like crazy and then it's on to the next thing and if justin jefferson signs a contract extension anytime soon then him missing otas will never ever be talked about and all the you know the handful of people who are really

upset about it will just kind of go on to the next thing to be upset about and move along. Right. And so that's kind of how football works. It's how football coverage tends to work. And so I try to not live too much in the moment with that, but I also couldn't help, but kind of react to Kevin O'Connell seeming pretty uncomfortable talking about Justin Jefferson, not being at OTAs. I'm guessing, though, and if you disagree, tell me, that the minute he signs the contract, no one will ever remember, everyone will be happy, and we will all move on with our lives. We just don't know when that's going to be.

No, I totally agree that as soon as that contract sign, that memory of, or the panic, the momentary panic and anxiety that set in among the Minnesota sports fan base uh will immediately disappear and will act like we were never panicked at all and that everybody that the whole thing was fine from the beginning that there's nothing to ever be afraid of because this was all inevitable in the first place which is kind of what we've all been saying at this point that that this is going to happen eventually, you would assume, and that there will be a monster contract extension signed, and it'll happen eventually.

We just don't know when, but based on the past precedent of this franchise, more likely closer to training camp than anything, I would imagine. And I saw that Anthony Edwards bought a house, so there's one box that Minnesota fans can check off not being too worried about that at the moment. I mean, that's how all leagues are set up is for your young players to stay with the teams that draft them. And I think that will ultimately be what happens, but we do have to put a panic point on it. So like what date do you start panicking? And I think that date is week one.

Probably if you start week one without a contract extension, then yeah, I think you start to get a little bit nervous about how he feels about the team overall, but we are a long way from that. But I don't know what the contract extension is going to look like. So our first question for Hot Routes tonight is, I want you to play the role of the Minnesota Vikings. And since I have Oakley's just like Justin Jefferson, I get to be Justin Jefferson and have ungodly abilities to catch footballs. And you're just still a regular person offering the contract as the Vikings front office. So I'm special and you're not, is what I'm saying, Jonathan. No, I'm just kidding. But

I want you to propose me two offers for the extension, and then I get to decide whether I, as Justin Jefferson, want to sign them or not. All right. So I put together kind of a baseline of what I wanted to do here in offering you this deal. And immediately, my first thing is you're getting $30 million a year because that is the bar that Aaron Donald set as the highest non quarterback player in this league to get. And I think you are worth at this point in your career with how young you are and how much you have left to go and what you've already shown that you are worth that kind of money. So I have two types of deals.

I have what I'm calling the DK Metcalf deal and what I'm calling the Devante Adams deal. DK Metcalf deal is a shorter deal, three years. So you'll be signed through your age 26 season, $90 million and $60 million of it guaranteed. So you're getting $30 million guaranteed. You're getting more guaranteed money than DK Metcalf got, what was it, two years ago. And you're getting more total money in general than Metcalf is getting because you are better than DK Metcalf. The other one, Devontae Adams.

He signed a five-year, let me pull it up here, a five-year $140 million deal with the Raiders last offseason. I'm going to up that by at least 10 because I'm sticking with my $30 million. Five years, $150 million, and I'm upping his guaranteed money. He got $65 guaranteed. I'm giving you $75. So in order to entice you to take the longer deal, to stay with this franchise longer until your age 28 season,

I'm giving you more guaranteed money, more to stay here and a more solid financial commitment from us. So essentially the guaranteed money difference is only 15 million from the short to the long-term deal, which does make me lean toward the short-term deal. But you know, my agent just called me and he said, you look so good in those Oakleys that I think you're worth more than 30 mil. And I'm like, OK, I totally agree.

What if since. Oh, wait, I'm getting another call from my agent. He said this offseason, Kwesi Adafomensa said you were as valuable as a quarterback. And then Purple Insider intern Haley English, who's starting with the Lions soon by the way good for her Haley uh did a report saying that that's actually true that Justin Jefferson was as valuable as a middling quarterback middling quarterbacks get 38 39 40 million dollars a year. What if I want to push it, Jonathan, to that three-year deal, but I want $35 million a year? I think I'm that much more valuable. And, hey, that TV contract is kicking in.

I noticed that Amazon and Discovery Channel, Outdoor Planet, House Hunters, they're all hosting football. And so you guys are going to have the money, all of them, or whatever, HGTV. They're all hosting the and so you guys are gonna have the money all of them or whatever hgtv they're all hosting the nfl they all got nfl games they're being played on monday afternoons thursdays tuesdays it doesn't matter so i know you guys have got the money i think 35 is where i should be you still doing it so you want three years, $105 million. I'm okay with that. That's what I'm thinking with a 70 guaranteed. I think you're worth it.

Yeah, let's go with it. If you're going to sign on the dotted line right here, right now, three years, $105 million. That's $35 million a year. I don't care. You're as good as – you're as valuable to my team as Aaron Donald was to the Rams when they won the Super Bowl. Let's go with it.

Three years, 105, 70 guaranteed. Okay. I'm not too concerned about that because I know that we can fit it within the cap space because at some point, her cousin's probably going to be gone. You're going to have that off the books. You're going to have a whole ton of cap space coming up in the future as probably the most important person in this franchise. Yeah.

Hand you the money. Absolutely. Wow. You are the easiest person to negotiate with. But you know what? Also representative of how the Vikings have actually been when it comes to negotiations. I think that your practice was very accurate there because I don't know if you got your phone next to you,

but you just picked up the phone and heard from the Wilfs that said, give him whatever he wants. If he wants 35 million- pay that man his money, go for it. But I do, I do think that if Justin Jefferson side is saying we're as valuable as a quarterback, you said it yourself, that there could be some gap between them that needs to be worked out that

both sides know that this is going to happen. If Justin wants it to happen and both sides know he's going to be the highest paid with the most guaranteed money. The other thing is, too, there's really no safer bet in football to give a, what, 23-year-old player the guaranteed money. When guys hit free agency a lot of times, I mean, they're usually 26, 27, sometimes 28. That's when the guaranteed money feels a little bit risky because they've been in the league a while. They've got injury history. Justin Jefferson has no injury history and is as young. I mean, he's as young as some of the rookies literally who are coming out as wide receivers this year.

He's the same age as them. And I think that makes it a very safe bet. I think that this negotiation could go kind of that way i don't know if they will go to 35 if jefferson wants that but i think somewhere in the middle of that if we split the difference and we go to 32 33 million dollars per year if it's like three years 99 and then it comes down to, does he want three? Does he want five? Or is there some hitch in this thing where Jefferson is going to say, you know what? I want to wait and see how this organization plays out before I sign. But that to me is not a really good business play. The better business

play for him is to take the money now with a shorter term extension and then try to, you know, well not try, but definitely hit the market again, or get in another position where he's got the same negotiating power again before he's even 27 years old. So most guys could get their first contract at like 27 years old when they become free agents, where he could have two by that point, mega deals. And he could also have a couple more years to see how this thing plays out. And he knows, or he should know that no matter what, he's going to play really well.

I think that the extension contract talks, as long as they don't include Jefferson saying, you know what? Only if you guys extend Kirk, which we don't really know. It's I mean mean you can't really ascertain from his comments how he feels about Cousins unless you go back to at the Super Bowl in 2021 he was asked a bunch of times about Cousins future and he kind of went like I don't know not my call um maybe he feels differently after last year maybe Maybe he feels the same way. I don't know. But if he doesn't like what he's heard from them about the team's future and their plans to rebuild-ish or competitively rebuild,

then I could see some sort of holdup. But he also doesn't have a lot of control over that matter either way. I mean, we kind of know how this could go. It's either they extend Kirk or they're going to draft someone next year. And even going the Jimmy Garoppolo route, you've seen the risk of that, like trying to pick up a quarterback that some other team has let go or trying to pick up someone in trade. It seems like draft is really the only way to go about it if they're not extending cousins. So unless he has a serious hot take, which a man that wears these sunglasses could have a hot take on what

they he wants for the quarterback situation that is the only thing i see as a potential hold up which is why we've been talking about don't lose your mind yet but i think i think that is a fair number jonathan if we're at like 33 million per year and then it just comes down to is he willing to say yes i want to be for sure a biking for a long time or no i'd rather just sign through these years that would be the fifth year option that would be the franchise tag sign through those years and then get to the other end of that uh that's what it really comes down to i think but if they're paying him that much here is the one the one thing you run into and this is why it's important to have drafted all these defensive players and everything else.

And even Jordan Addison to have a young player that is darn near a quarterback contract. So you really don't. And that's, that's what it could be a holdup to. Like you don't really have a choice to extend Kirk cousins over multiple years. You could do a two-year extension for Cousins, but not much more than that if you wanted him to be the long-term quarterback. At some point, the minute you sign Jefferson to that extension, he becomes your quarterback and you have to find someone

on the rookie quarterback contract after that. So it kind of forces you down a certain road, which I'm okay with that road. And I think that's the best road, but there is a reality there that now receivers are getting quarterback level contracts. Yeah. And it all depends. Like if you give him that money, as you said, and he becomes that quarterback contract, we know Justin Jefferson is super competitive. He wants to win a Super Bowl because he's won titles at pretty much every level that he's played at. And that's something that he's always talked about. Is he willing at that point to take, to have the franchise take a step back for a year

and be bad enough where they're able to draft a high enough quarterback? Because if he's not, and they're still in that middle road where they've been stuck in for years now, they're never going to be high enough in the draft order to get a quarterback unless they stockpile draft picks over a number of years and find a way to move up in the draft that's it's going to be hard to draft a good quarterback at that level where they're usually at in the 20s or in the in the teens it's quarterbacks don't generally drop so that becomes part of the issue too in your long-term building is whether or if you're able ever to get up into that higher echelon of the draft to get a quarterback

that's worthy of that kind of pick. But yeah, I think where we're at right now between 30 and 35 is right where if we're listening to Jeremy Fowler on ESPN on SportsCenter this morning, he said that executives across the league expect him to compete with that Aaron Donald contract in the amount of that he's getting per year. So if he gets anywhere near that, I don't think anybody should be surprised. And I think that should be the base level expectation that he's getting north of 30 million. And if it ends up being 33, 34 million, I don't think anybody should be shedding any tears because the man just got paid for being a really good athlete and really good receiver for this franchise in a franchise that has been littered with really great receivers, and you're finally keeping one

here, where we haven't in the past with Stefan Diggs and with Randy Moss. Those guys have left. Now you're going to keep one at least for a couple years if, yeah, it all then comes down to whether he wants to stay for a long time or whether he wants to DK Metcalf contract. And I think the DK Metcalf contract is going to become more of the, the thing that we see more often from these, these young kids who are coming into the league at a young age, they can get to their first contract by 23, 24, and then they can get another contract by 25, by 27, 28. That's the smarter play, smarter route, because like you said, once you get past that 28 season, getting any guaranteed money feels kind of risky, especially with how like the Raiders did it with Devontae Adams last year, giving him 70 million guaranteed at 30 years old. That feels very risky. And if you're able to get, if you're able to play where you get two contracts

before you turn 28, that's the smarter play. And I wouldn't be surprised if Justin Jefferson does a shorter contract with a lot of money. Is this the most universally agreed upon by fans thing for a team to do? I mean, there were a few questions throughout the off season, like, hey, if Jefferson really says he doesn't want to sign, would you trade him for this or that or the other thing rather than paying him all this money? And there is some philosophy to that, but I would also come back with, look, when you get in your window, you find ways to make it all work. Like the Los Angeles Rams, they had high paid guys on their team. The quarterback, his cap hit for Stafford that year, I think was fairly reasonable, but it was still higher than a rookie would have been. And Aaron Donald, as you mentioned, they've had a lot of players who are making a lot of money on their Super Bowl team as every Super Bowl team does because they all have star players. You are paying some people you I mean you have to have and a lot of times too teams that go deep in the playoffs and win Super Bowls this was studied some years back but most of the time they do have a lot of experienced players which makes sense right I mean if you're rebuilding and inexperienced it's

hard to go deep in the playoffs and things like that the reason you rebuild is to eventually get to a place where you have all those players who know what they're doing. And then you try to time that out with their contracts, like the Vikings did in 2017, where Diggs, Hunter, those guys were not paid yet. Once they were, things became a little more complicated, but you will have players on your football team who make money. Like that's, that is a thing that's going to happen. And I just don't see almost any pushback against the idea that you do this for Justin Jefferson. And I'm not going to make that case either because I think that what we see around the league is because the passing game is so important and so valuable that these receivers who dominate games, the ones that are the best are essentially unstoppable and they become as valuable as quarterbacks. And I think we also see too, that there's a handful

of quarterbacks who can be great despite their circumstances. Patrick Mahomes loses his number one receiver, wins the Superbowl. Josh Allen still had a great year last year and they lost some players off that team and were not as good as far as their depth and receiving. And yet still they were a really good passing game, but there's only like five of those guys at most who are infallible, I suppose. And everybody else is on the whims of their circumstances, their coaching, their receivers. I don't think it's any surprise that Russell Wilson dropped off as much as he did, not only when he didn't have Seattle, but, and had Nate Hackett, who I don't think was ready for that job, but also Jerry Judy and Cortland Sutton are just not as good as DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett. I don't think it's remotely close. I think that matters even to really good quarterbacks like him.

And so for Jefferson, you're yeah, paying him like a quarterback, though. I think that the great quarterbacks are going to continue to push $50 million a year. So it's still not what the top quarterbacks are making. It's still $15 million off of that. I just don't see any pushback to this idea. And when they do it, it will be one of those huge celebration type of moments for this franchise to have drafted that guy and to assign them to an extension. It's just, when is it going to come? But I can't think of too many things, Jonathan, in all of Minnesota sports that you can have fan bases, almost like 95% saying, yeah, this is exactly what our team should be doing. I feel like there's a couple reasons for that, especially with the Vikings in this market,

with how the past two star receivers have gone in Randy Moss and Stefan Diggs. And well, I guess you could ask Percy Harvin in there too. Three guys who had incredible game-changing talent all of a sudden were gone in their primes because they didn't want to be here anymore because of varying different reasons. But it feels like there's a lot of that being held over on this franchise from the fan base that they don't want to see another star receiver get out the door and go play somewhere else and also I think another part of it is that after a couple years of Mike Zimmer's run first mentality and seeing the league progress to this pass first mentality people lashed on to Justin Jefferson and really liked the idea of this becoming a pass first offense and kind of evolving into the 21st century of football and they got to

see it for a year and they don't want to go back they don't want to and that's not going to happen under Kevin O'Connell but they don't want to see another star receiver, especially in a pass first offense, head out the door and kind of move back from what they saw last year. I think people want to see progression and keep seeing what they saw last year. So I feel like it definitely is the most well-liked idea and well-supported idea among the Minnesota sports fan base. Folks, I'm super excited to announce a new sponsor to the show that just made us a whole lot cooler. Oakley, express yourself and build a look that's made for you. You guys know that I spend my summers on the golf course,

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Trust me, try it for yourself. I've worn a lot of sunglass brands in my life, and I can assure you that Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality out there. Head on over to Oakley.com for more information today. So Terry says JJ may not want to sign a contract in the prime of his career when the quarterback is unknown and could very well be a rookie. Cousins is a big piece of JJ's puzzle. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is true that the unknown element of the quarterback here is the wild card in the entire conversation. And without any public statements from Jefferson, and I don't expect any to come anytime soon, even if he is there for mandatory minicamp, if he doesn't have a deal,

I would guess he is there for mandatory minicamp, but does not step on that field. He's just going to be walking on the sidelines, watching, standing in his Oakleys and his basketball shoes, rather than getting out there and cleats and running around and taking any risk of him getting hurt or something like that. But I think that the way that the system works is even if he is unclear, like this is why you're making the case for the shorter term contract, even if he is unclear about what they're going to do at quarterback.

And even if they do not extend cousins by the end of the off season and Jefferson still doesn't know, I'm sure he's had some conversation with Casey or through his agent about kind of what their general plan is, but they don't know who the quarterbacks are that are going to come out next year. We know a couple names right now, but we didn't know Anthony Richardson until he did crazy things to Utah in week one. And then all of a sudden he was on the map as a potential top draft pick in week one of the college season. And we've seen years before Joe Burrow all the way up until the whole kind of season with LSU. I think it wasn't until the playoffs that he was clearly the number one quarterback.

So we're a long way away from them knowing for sure, even if they don't extend cousins. So it is possible that Jefferson could say, you know what? I don't have to do this right now. There is no pressure for me right now. I'm still going to make a lot of money, got sponsorships, got a first rounders contract. I've still got a lot of money. I can wait and see how this goes and see how I feel next year. It's just that when somebody comes to you and says, look, 33 mil per year, 60 plus million guaranteed dollars, guaranteed dollars. Now, if you don't sign this, you will get that money for sure. In your fifth year option, you'll get that money in your franchise tag, but that's going to take time. And then you're a year to year player. If you're on his side, if you're his agent,

like this is a better deal for you. And I'm just presenting this as a possibility, the short-term contract, the Vikings may be pushing hard for the longer term deal, but that is a lot of money to get right up front. And I'm going to have Brad Spielberg on the show to kind of lay this out in a little bit better of a way. So, but I think that even if he's uncertain about the quarterback, there is still reason to sign a contract extension now that's a little shorter and be able to say in a couple of years, how you feel about that. But I, I, I got some other things I want to talk about with you though, Jonathan. So we'll leave that and there will be plenty more to discuss with Jefferson. And it's even possible that he signs an extension before minicamp. And we never talk about this again until we're talking about

how they're going to build around the contract and its structure and everything else. Then we'll see. But Bill Barnwell of ESPN ranked all the teams off seasons. And I'm going to pull this up to get kind of the definition of how he went about it. So it was, he says, he writes that it was designed to consider what a team did during the off season to increase its chances of winning the Super Bowl in the short and long term. So that is how Bill Barnwell ranked teams off seasons and he i think smartly ranked washington number one and said getting rid of their owner increased their chances the most and i totally agree with bill uh friend of the show by the way comes on from time to time and uh support

a big supporter of purple insider so we appreciate him he ranked He ranked the Vikings 20th in this as far as, again, that is what the team did to get closer to the Super Bowl in the short and long term. So this isn't just about how much they added to their defense right away to be better this year. 20th, Jonathan, react to the Vikings being ranked 20th. I think I'm kind of agreeing with where he put them. It says in his what went wrong, he says the Vikings didn't make a bigger commitment towards rebuilding or contending, and I feel like that's correct. If you look at what they did this offseason,

they haven't really made a firm decision whether they're going to rebuild or contend, and with kind of giving Kirk Cousins what they did with reworking his contract, giving him another year, and then eating $28 million dead cap next year, it feels very much like you didn't really put a foot in either basket there. They're continuing on with the status quo of what Kirk Cousins and this franchise have done for the past five years of not really feeling like they're going to make a decision either way. They're trying to play both sides, and it's not really working. They're not getting any closer to a Super Bowl, and they're not getting any closer to rebuilding.

So it feels like with what they've done with bringing in Byron Murphy and and bringing Marcus Davenport has maybe helped a little bit, but we knew they had to go in to this offseason and get rid of some of the older talent on defense and offense, and that's what happens when you get rid of Eric Kendricks, and that's what happens when you get rid of Patrick Peterson and Adam Thielen. So you knew that they would have to get rid of some of these bigger contracts, and we knew that we would have to wait until June to get rid of or move on from

either Daniil Hunter or both our Dalvin Cook as well. So it feels like this list will change within the next 24 to 48 hours based on what they do with those guys and what happens with that Justin Jefferson contract. Because if you sign him to a longer term deal, or just I guess any deal at this point after the conversation we just had, If you sign him to a deal, I feel like their ranking will go up, and depending on what you do with Daniil Hunter, I think if you're able to find a way to keep him, I think they go up further because that helps you short and long-term because of his age and what he's been able to produce for you.

But if you get rid of him, I think that might drop them. I think I would probably drop them a little bit for getting rid of Daniel Hunter because then you have nobody to help you on that defensive side, the defensive line for this season, and you're relying on really a whole bunch of scraps at this point to get you some pass rush in a very blitz-happy defense in Brian Flores. But I think signing Brian Flores and getting rid of Ed Donatel is as Brian, as, uh, as he said, Bill Barnwell said it was a huge boost towards their, uh,

their off season because it got you a clearer plan and a better fitting plan on defense than what Donatel did last year. Except Flores is working with a lot less proven talent than Donatel was last year, which is why, uh why I think there was so much discussion about firing Donatello at midseason. Because, I mean, you go back and look and now you look at what Zedaria Smith did individually and what Delvin Tomlinson did and what Patrick Peterson did. And you go, and this question has been asked to me a few times by Cleveland Radio because they've got two of those guys. And the question that keeps coming up is like, how was it so bad? And it's like, well, yeah, that's a long story. And part of it was the weak links.

The weak links were extremely weak. But also there was not enough gotten out of Harrison Smith, Eric Hendricks. Even Shannon Sullivan had a better history than the way that he played for the Vikings last year. And I think that it just, there was a lot of parts that didn't work and a lot of things that didn't fit for last season, but you don't get to redo it with those same players. I don't think that you can project them right now in late May, early June as being a better defense, even if they're smarter, but they, in the way that they approach it, they don't have better players. I mean, Marcus Davenport had a

half a sack last year. I mean, I think that he might be a good player for them, but you can't say that he'll be what Zedarius Smith was. And I think Byron Murphy is a good football player and he's actually been better throughout his career in the slot than he has been outside. And I think that's what they're going to do with him a lot. So they're going to use him right. And he's a good man to man corner, but at the same time, like that's not Patrick Peterson who was leading the league in past breakups, interceptions right up at the top of the entire NFL. So repeating a lot of those things. And that speaks to the getting closer in the short term, moving on from that much talent is not getting closer in the short term. The offensive from that much talent is not getting closer in the short term.

The offensive line was not improved on the interior. They're going to run back the same guys on the interior again. So that's not something we can for sure say is going to be way better. Losing Adam Thielen for Jordan Addison may be a long-term upgrade. I would guarantee it. But that it's better to have a you know 21 year old player that's a rookie first rounder than it is to have an older veteran on a multi-year contract extension or something so they made the right decision and long term that might get them closer if they have

two great receivers but we don't know that yet uh so even though that was the right move we don't know that yet to say for sure i think it is an interesting discussion to ask, did they get closer or farther away from the Super Bowl? And I don't think the answer is really either. And that does really center around the quarterback situation. Had they traded Kirk Cousins, I would have said closer because then they're following that path to a rookie quarterback. And it might blow up and there's no guarantees for anything, but I do think you're closer than you are repeating

the same thing over. So it does feel like in some ways they did a great job of refreshing the roster for the long-term drafting on defense, multiple draft picks on the defensive side in the secondary. They've put a ton of effort into creating a good secondary. And if they do, I mean, you need one. I look this up because, you know, people say defense wins championships and so forth. And there is, I think that what defense can do for you is it can, it has to win a playoff game at some point that you need a defense that's good enough to win you one of those playoff games. And point, that you need a defense that's good enough to win you one of those playoff games. And I can't remember the exact stats, but basically no defenses were able

to make the Super Bowl if they were giving up a 95 or above quarterback rating against. You need to be a good passing defense. And they've invested a lot on that side, including Byron Murphy, who I think is a really good player. So the defense long-term is improved by quite a bit from just trying to desperately flail at, you know, free agents and stuff like that. And Dean Lowry is just a placeholder, short-term filler. That's totally fine. But you can't say it was significant. So I think they actually did go in that right direction, getting Addison. Offense is going to get you there. And having a young wide receiver, if he becomes a star, that's what's going to get you there. And putting together a group of players on defense that can help you stop the pass, that will help you get there.

So I would say, from that perspective, long-term, closer, but not closer as in leaps and bounds closer and I think that that's why they're not 32nd or anything that's why they're just kind of in the middle because Barnwell is not able to say leaps and bounds closer unless it was a move with the quarterback situation but I do think when you draft the receiver in the first round there is the potential for that player to get you leaps and bounds closer even as we saw from look at the teams at who are at the end other than Kansas City they don't count because they have Mahomes but Cincinnati has three great receivers

Philadelphia has two great receivers and an elite tight end San Francisco has two great receivers and an elite tight end I think that from that perspective, if offense is going to get you there and passing is going to get you there, they did get closer. It's just that they didn't solve the biggest question. Yeah, absolutely. And that biggest question has been hanging over this franchise for a long time. And they seem to just keep kicking the can down the road. And I think that's probably why they're, they're bumped down a little bit too from where, from that league average number. I're, they're bumped down a little bit too, from where, from that league average number. I mean, 20 is kind of right around that range, but it feels like because they just keep kicking that can down the road and hoping that something will work out

or something just kind of falls in their lap. It, it's hard to say that they've made a big enough jump like the Washingtons did just by getting rid of their owner, like Baltimore did by signing Lamar Jackson to a long-term deal and getting him wide receiver help in Zay Flowers and Odell Beckham Jr. Those guys, those teams, they made concerted efforts to plan for their future where the Minnesota Vikings have just kept on kind of doing this short-term window, trying to play it as well as the long-term. It doesn't seem like it's working right now. And it's not going to get you a whole lot of credit in the offseason if you're not making these big moves to show that

this is what your plan is for the future. Yeah, and I think that the teams that he put up at the top, I mean, I don't know about Philadelphia. I mean, maybe he's saying that extending Jalen Hurts was a big part of this. Philadelphia did lose quite a bit of talent in the short term. I still think they'll be great in the NFC, but they did lose a good amount of talent. But mostly it seems like the teams at the top put themselves in position this year to have better chances like Jalen Ramsey going to the Miami Dolphins, like big moves that helped them get closer to an immediate Super Bowl.

So the Vikings weren't going to get into this conversation. But I do think they got closer. And I also think by not extending Kirk, and this is who knows what could happen soon, but by not extending Kirk at this moment, they are closer, I think, by not doing that. Now, that could still happen. And if they do it, then it might change the way I feel about it. Kyle says, no excuses for Kirk this year. Same offensive line, same offense, upgraded weapons. Are they upgraded weapons? We don't know yet. We don't know. It might be, uh, Addison might be an

upgrade, uh, which is going to lead into my next question, but we don't know that for sure. If he's upgrade from Adam Thielen, uh, more of a grinder running game. I do think they can upgrade the running game for sure. But as far as excuses for Kirk Cousins, the thing is with Kirk is, like, we're not finding out anything more about Kirk Cousins at this point. It is what it is. He is who he is. Last year, he had, you know, the coach that believed in him and everything else, and they had a good offense, again, like he did with Stefanski,

who I think he related well to and it was not an elite offense and until that actually happens but we're talking about a 35 year old quarterback I just feel like you're going to be a fringe top 10 offense all the time and whether you actually compete or not comes down to running game defense schedule injuries all the things that always exist with Kirk Cousins because he is what he is. And that's why the minute you don't sign him to an extension or move on, you get potentially closer with what you have, especially with what you can give the next quarterback. But again, I'm still not counting out the late offseason Kirk extension. So let me ask you about Jordan Addison.

Mike Clay of ESPN does a great job with his projections. They're really fun to look at. You go through, I mean, every team, every player he's projecting out, including defense, including backup defensive players and how many sacks they're going to have. I just, I just love what he does. And he's got Jordan Addison at 766 yards and five touchdowns. Is that too high, too low, or just right? I think if you look at what the Vikings had last year, I think it might be too high. And I don't know that Vikings fans will like that considering what the rookie receivers did last year

in Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson putting up a thousand yards and four touchdowns with their teams. But they were also the number one options for their team where Jordan Addison's coming in and he's going to be third, maybe fourth. And if he's good enough early on, he'll, he'll be second. But even then second, the second place receiver on the Vikings last year, Adam Thielen only had 716 yards receiving and six touchdowns. So yes, Justin Jefferson had 1800 yards, but you're still going to give Justin Jefferson the amount of touches and

targets that you did last year, because he's the best receiver in the game and it's not even close. So you're still going to give Justin Jefferson that workload and you're going to try and fit in Jordan Addison, a first round receiver with KJ Osborne andborne and T.J. Hawkinson. And T.J. Hawkinson was on pace for what? I think you did the math. He's on pace for 1,000 yards receiving and 100 catches

if he played for the Vikings the entire season. Like, that's the number two receiver on this team. So Jordan Addison's coming in as the third or fourth option. And third or fourth option on this team last year, 650 yards, five touchdown touchdowns or 519 yards three touchdowns so 700 expecting 766 yards and five touchdowns for him might be a little much but if you're looking at the past history of first round receivers they usually get around 800 900 yards they never they rarely ever break a thousand yards that's hard to do for a rookie receiver but

it's generally around 800 900 yards so people might feel disappointed at that. But if you look at the broader scope of it, I think that's, that's a fine number. If you don't get over 700 yards, just because of who else is on this team and who Kirk Cousins has to throw to all the weapons that he has to throw to on this team. So looking at last year's rookie class, there were four guys who topped that. And Wilson and Olave, who you mentioned, along with Drake London and George Pickens. And each one of those guys was a central top target for their team. The first two, Olave and Wilson, were clear wide receiver ones. Pickens kind of became a top option for them.

London became a top option for them. Christian Watson had 611. If he had Christian Watson's season from last year, 611 yards, 41 catches, and seven touchdowns, I don't think that that's really disappointing based on the situation he's coming into with all the other options that he might end up being more of a third or fourth option right away which i think you should be totally comfortable with there were good rookie receivers last year who graded highly by pff and were effective but did not get huge huge uh fantasy totals just yet and you have to consider that KJ Osborne, this is probably his last year as a Viking. He's playing for contract.

And if he plays this year and then hits free agency, then it will be clear cut who's number one and number two, assuming that Addison can play. I think that this year is a season where you'd be putting the bar very high for someone to go over 750 yards when they have the most prolific receiver in the game and another guy that's proven and another guy that is the security blanket for Kirk Cousins. And even though I think that everything about Addison says that he can pick up on the offense fast, it's still not an easy thing to do. He's already kind

of a little banged up, not hitting a panic button with his health or anything, but it's just a hard transition. Like Traylon Burks last year played 11 games. Sometimes that happens where the first year is a lot of dings and cuts held over from college, from preparing for the combine, all those things. But that doesn't mean that he can't top that. I don't think it's a ridiculous number at all based on what some of the other top draft picks did. It really depends

on circumstances a lot, but there's, there's just three other guys that Kirk Cousins knows and trusts and believes in. So it's, it's hard to believe that he's going to come in and catch like a thousand yards worth, but you never know never know i mean who knows what could happen if hockinson gets banged up or if uh you know kj osborne gets banged up all of a sudden all this kind of goes out the window with hypotheticals i think it's fair but optimistic and i'm sure that if you're the guy who does the projections that what you're constantly getting is that's too low my guy's gonna be way better and all those things. So I, you know, but I think, I think it's like close to reasonable,

but maybe just a shade on the high side. The last thing I had for you, Jonathan, is Aiden Hutchinson talked to ESPN this week about what it would be like if Detroit won a Superbowl. And I think maybe this is my sunglasses Oakley hot take. I think if Detroit won the Super Bowl, Vikings fans would be like, all right, Detroit, all right, that's good. You do you. It's not the Packers.

It's not the Bears. Good for you, Detroit. You went through so much. I don't know anybody. I've never heard a single fan question or anything where someone's like those lions i it's always it's always chicago it's always green bay the lions fans have been through a lot you can kind of look over there and be like you know respect because you've had a lot of tough times so if the lions were to win the super bowl i don't think vikings fans would just

be fuming with rage based on the fact that they're in the same division because they're another fan base that's gone through a heck of a lot. So my question though, would be that I, you know, who would you rank as the most deserving Superbowl lists franchises? I think, so I went through the list and there's 12 teams that haven't, I eliminated four based off of ownership and management and I eliminated the Texans inept management and ownership. They just don't like their, they don't deserve it because of their

ownership. The Browns obvious reasons. No, currently I don't want them to win a super bowl. And I don't think they, they, uh, I don't think they should be on the list right now. Cardinals inept management and ownership. I mean, forcing your players to pay for their meals now you don't deserve a super bowl for that and the bangles cheap ownership yeah the team is fun and you want joe burrow to win but as if your practice field is right outside a highway or right underneath the highway overpass sorry man like all these all these other teams you see what the charges are building in their practice facility you see what the vgers are building in their practice facility. You see what the Vikings have built in TCL Performance Center. These teams are shelling out and putting out money for their franchises to get better and

have nice facilities and do well by their players. And some of these teams, their ownerships just aren't there yet. So I'm going to put those guys on the bottom tier of these rankings. The Vikings and Bills, I think they deserve to be at the top just because four Super Bowls, four losses, plenty of heartache. I think the Chargers are right up there as well because of more recently their heartache that they've gone through with their franchise. And, I mean, moving it, that always kind of bumps you down because that's kind of shady and just moving your franchise. I'm not a big fan of that.

So I think the Vikings and Bills are 1A and 1B right now. You can go either one. Lions are up there as well, just because as you said, I don't think there'd be many Vikings fans who would be upset with them winning. Yeah, I think there'd be a lot of Vikings fans upset that their own team didn't do it first, but it's not going to be like the Packers or Bears winning and we're just like, come on, you guys have already had it. Let's get someone else in there. So Vikings, Bills, Lions, Chargers up there as well. The Panthers, I think I like what they're building. So I think they get to be up on my list

as well in the top five, because I like where they're going with what they've done this off season and getting Bryce Young, adding some receivers around him and getting a good head coach there. I like what they're doing there there so the one team that i think is belonging in this conversation but is so mostly irrelevant that we don't talk about them as one of the heartbreak elite is the atlanta falcons yeah i mean they blew a 28 to 3 lead and not only that i mean they've got other they've got tons of other ones where they have been that close i think they're a what like contested catch away from beating san francisco in an nfc championship they had a meltdown in the playoffs against the packers um i'm trying to think back even you go back to the 80s where they were a relevant team and they had what the steve barkowski era i'm

trying to think like back in my nfl films history um, that they were, I think a head in a game that they, that they blew in an NFC championship. I mean, there's, there have been a lot for the Atlanta Falcons that to me would put them in this discussion. And I think that Atlanta fans, um, got a bad rep back in the day with the Atlanta Braves because they wouldn't show up to the games, even though the Braves were amazing. But those people have been through so much. I mean, imagine, imagine this, like, I'm not saying you have to feel bad for anybody else when you're the Vikings because you've been through it, but imagine you have Mike Vick as your quarterback and you're like, this is the best thing to ever happen. That franchise with Mike Vick is a premier franchise.

I know he didn't win a championship, but I mean, one of the most exciting players in NFL history. And then the dude is just gone. And Joey Harrington is your quarterback. And Bobby Petrino just quits on you. Oh my goodness. Yeah. It's that bad.

And then you get another elite quarterback and the guy gets this close over and over and over again i mean that's tough they have earned it the reason i would push back on los angeles and i do understand what you're saying about the investment and teams that invest deserve it totally understand that uh but man like los angeles fans yeah did they Did they, did they, like any, any stadium that gets more filled with the other teams fans off the list for me and the chargers have got the heartbreak for sure throughout the years. If they were in San Diego, they'd be one in two with the Vikings, but, and of course Buffalo deserves to be up there. Though Buffalo brought their ineptitude on themselves for many years. And so I kind of penalize them for that. I really

think the Vikings, and this is not because we cover them. I really think they have the best case because they have been the best team. And so we talk about deserving, like they have been the highest winning percentage, the most division championships of any team without a title. And so when you kind of factor that in and the investment that they've made, I would say they deserve to be up there in that conversation. It's like Detroit, the fans for sure have been through it. They have had some Stanley Cups. They did get an NBA championship championship fairly recently last 20 years

um minnesota in general has just been through so much with all the sports teams that you could put them up there um so i think that there's a good conversation the only one i would say i understand what you're saying about the bangles i totally get it about their owner and what they deserve and someday they'll get a much better owner who's going to build all the things they deserve but tanking getting burrow yeah having one of the coolest and best quarterbacks i mean like they and then they had carson palmer and then they blow it with carson palmer i mean because i'm considering fans in this as well the fans of the cincinnati bangles have been through a lot. If you came out of that still cheering for the Cincinnati Bengals with a

Keely Smith and all the things that they went through, I mean, good for you to still support that team. They probably deserve to be up there. So I think I would have Vikings, Atlanta, Buffalo, Cincinnati and Detroit are probably my list, but maybe there's an article in there someday on that uh anything else you want to say jonathan before we wrap up for the evening uh the question we need to get into deandre hopkins i'm leaning towards he'll go towards go to the the uh the ravens that's what i was thinking i couldn't ravens okay yeah i like the

ravens i like what they've done around there. They have, what, $11.5 million in cap space. They could afford them, put them in, and that would be one exciting offense. Finally give Lamar Jackson a ton of receivers to play with. That's what I go with. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. I think that if you're Buffalo, this is it for you. This is your shot. There's a window, and you'll always have

somewhat of a window with Josh Allen, but there's going to be some roster turnover in the years coming with them because Josh Allen is going to be very expensive. So if you have a shot to get him in there and give him, put him across from Stefan digs and you need that to compete in the AFC, that's what you need. So either one of those teams makes a lot of sense for DeAndre Hopkins and good for him. The guy gets to pick his Super Bowl contender. So pick wisely, DeAndre. He's one of the few guys that he's because he's played in Houston, Arizona, has just gone wildly underrated.

But he's one of those guys where when I have covered a game that he's doing, he does stuff, catches footballs that you just go, uh, like Justin Jefferson does the other team. Like, I don't know how he caught it. I have no clue. And,

he's one of the guys that does that. So he's been a great player, but he dealt with a fading inept team in Houston and then a fading inept team in Arizona. So pick wisely, sir, pick wisely. Uh,

great stuff, Jonathan. Thanks everybody for listening and participating. And if, and when there is post June 1st breaking news, this is the place to log onto because we will always have instant, immediate, fiery reactions. Maybe if it's good enough news, I'll even bring out these bad boys again. So, all right. Thanks everybody. Thanks, Jonathan. We'll talk to y'all soon.