Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Is Ty Chandler RB1 now for the Vikings?

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Matthew Coller and Jeremiah Sirles talk about whether it's time for the Vikings to turn to Ty Chandler in the backfield, plus discuss expectations for Josh Dobbs going forward and how we balance talking about the QB of the future and whether they can make the playoffs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of... Sorry. Sorry. That was way too loud. Did that just kill you? Woo! No, it wasn't bad at all. It was just a little screechy. Oh, okay. All right. Should be... Check, check, check. Sorry. I should have checked that first. All right. You're good. Now we go. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. And it is time once again for another Tuesday morning left guard with former Minnesota Viking Jeremiah Searles. And, well, Jeremiah, the season season's over it was a good run Dobbs mania comes to an end and I guess we go on to offseason mode now right that we're doing

no no no easy over there the sky is not falling in Eagan Minnesota just yet we ran into a you can call them hot Broncos team I guess I mean they've won a lot of games they're going here but I don't think anything's over I think Dobbs came back down to earth, which was bound to happen. I think to think that he was going to continue on the insane run that he started the first game and a half or two games with the Vikings to continue is just not a realistic thought, but he did enough to give us a chance to win at the end of the game. He didn't do anything that like blew it completely out of the water either. He kind of was who he was. And I expect him to get better as the season progresses.

But everything's still right out in front for the Vikings. I think that there's no need to hit the panic button just yet. Okay. But there are things that we can look at that game. And by the way, if you really thought that it was luck related that the Vikings lost that, there are people who put out charts that sort of show the random stuff, the fumbles, fumble luck, drop passes, which the chiefs are feeling pretty bad about their loss. The Vikings were the unluckiest team this week. So that pendulum has really swung back and forth between beginning of the season, losing your fumbles middle of the season, have

people throw you interceptions. And then last week against Denver, the fumbles middle of the season have people throw you interceptions and then last week against Denver the fumbles but when you outplay the opponent for the vast majority of the game in my mind it's the hardest to break down because you you when a team loses you look so much closer at everything that went wrong and so you have to balance all right where should we criticize where should we say that they should make changes? And I think there's one area in particular that is quite obvious, which is Ty Chandler, you are now RB number one. And I guess the thing that we're going to wonder is, should Ty Chandler have just been at the top of this depth chart for the entire season?

And I asked Wes Phillips, our offensive offensive coordinator about that kind of very issue. And he was talking about how, when people see, and even coaches, I imagine someone with his burst and how quick he is and how shifty he is. It's like, why isn't he playing? And he said the exact words, you have to trust him first. And I think after that game, that should be the trust level. He executed a special teams play, caught a pass out of the backfield on third and long made a play. He was in at least mostly the right spots. It looked like from past protection, even though he got beat badly on one, but you're just going to probably have to sacrifice a little bit to have someone who's just a better football

player for this offense. And Ty Chandler, if he's not RB one this week, then I'm going to have some questions. I agree with you, you know, going back and watching the tape. I think Madison did some good things. Like, I think he actually had one of his better days vision wise of seeing some of the things, but you just, it's such a noticeable difference when Chandler Madison running the ball and just their initial quickness, the initial get through the line of scrimmage, like those types of things. And when you start to talk about potential and who gives us the best chance to hit an explosive play, who gives us the best chance to really take the top off if he can hit a

crease, it's Ty Chandler. Right. And so I agree with you. I think he needs to be more of an RB one. I think that he gives us a little bit more in the passing game than Madison does too. And overall is weird as is to, he may not be because at the end of the day, politics come down to it and you're paying Madison and you let Dalvin cook go

and all those things. But if you look at it from a truly objective view and a thousand, I view what is gives this opportunity of this offense to be the best version of it. It starts with Ty Chandler. Yeah. And I think with Ty Chandler, it's okay if we let him develop throughout the season. Yes. But I also, if you think, if you don't give him that job now, after he not only outperformed Alexander Madison, but Madison had a massive fumble in the game that entirely turned the tide from this team is absolutely winning. This might be a blowout by the end of the night to, Oh, now the Denver Broncos

are right back there. And it's going to come down to one score stuff happening, like a fumble rolling out of bounds rather than into the hands of the Minnesota Vikings. I mean, that's, that was left up to a chance a little bit because Madison let the ball slip out. And also, I think this is important too, that early in the year, Kevin O'Connell said a lot of things about turnovers. And one of them was, look, if guys are going to turn the ball over, then I'm going to find somebody who won't, which to me is, it's a strong statement and probably the strongest I've ever heard Kevin O'Connell make.

If Ty Chandler doesn't start this next game after that happened in such a key moment and he said there would be consequences, then you're not doing what you said you're going to do, which I think is important if you're going to be a player's coach, that you talk about accountability all the time. There has to be something. And I think he's proven that he's been pretty spot on about doing what he says. Right. And this is another moment of now you're head to ball coach. Like he comes back of, Hey, did I really say that?

And you go check the tape. It's like the old, the murder, like throw the red flag. Like let's check the tape. Like you, yeah, you did say that.

And when you look at it, he is not dumb in the fact that he knows there's other veterans in that room looking at him going, are we just gonna, we're just gonna blow by this. We're gonna just look at it, you know, but it also comes down to what is Ty doing during the week

that gives him the trust that he can be RB1? Because I've seen it a lot, and you guys might not see it as much as reporters, but there are certain guys that are gamers where during the week they show up and you're like, man, where was that on Tuesday? Where was that on Wednesday, Thursday? Or why didn't we see that in training camp? And I think that's a lot of times why sometimes guys get pushed down the depth chart a little bit because there's not the trust factor when they go out there. Will they actually be able to do it? Cause they haven't shown it to

me during the week. And that becomes part of just developing as a player and understanding that you have to earn the right to be a player on Sunday during the week. So maybe there was a little bit of that going on in the development of Ty Chandler of like, hey, maybe he missed a few blitz pickups or maybe he missed the read or went the wrong way in an RPO once or twice. It's like, man, I don't think we can throw that out there as the starter right now. But from what I've seen in him in game, you know, I

I'll print a retraction. I text you. I mean, I don't think Ty Chandler is very good in pass protection. Like during the game, I text you that. And as I went back and watch the tape, he had some massive blitz pickups, massive blitz pickups that converted third downs, allowed plays to extend. And he did just get beat on that one. But overall he showed that he can be a complete back in all those different things. And so with KOC, maybe during the week, he's like, I need to see if I can see you do it consistently throughout this week, your RB one, you know, those are the kinds of coaches.

I always love that gave you at the beginning of the week, like, this is what I need to see from you in order for me to trust you on Sunday. And I think KOC knows that as a player. And so I would hope that he went up to that. And I hope he also did the same thing to Madison of like, listen, you're not, you're not going to be a key pivotal point of what our offense is, right? We're still going to need you, right? Just because if you get demoted right now and Chandler's one, and you're not like, that doesn't mean that we're just going to put you on the bench and never use you again like we're still going to need you and we want it to be a competition we want you guys to push each other become the best in that room become the best running back room that you can be like that's the kind of competition you need and I'll be

curious to see how Madison responds to that if that's the case too because that can really really break an ego and kind of a psyche of a player as well mid-season kind of demotion like that it is though uh the right move clearly if that's what they do and if they don't i'm just going to have a lot of questions like what else would ty chandler need to do in order to be rb1 if they don't i am suspecting that they will though after that game and that he's going to get a lot more carries and i was thinking of it if you're the denver broncos or if you're the upcoming opponent the chicago bears and you see're the upcoming opponent, the Chicago Bears, and you see Ty Chandler on the field, you are a lot more concerned because you know

how fast this guy is. And it's just worth stating again, a 4-3-8 for a running back is really fast, but there's also a natural running ability to him. He seems to spot holes. He seems to have a patience to his game. And then he can also impact them in the passing game, which is where I think they've lost a lot of expected points out of having one of the worst running backs in the league playing a lot of snaps. But in the passing

game, it's just been abysmal. And so I think that as you go down the stretch here, you actually feel like the setup for Josh Dobbs that we've talked about is so favorable. It actually could be a lot better because he throws a little swing pass on third and 20. You expect your running backs to get like eight yards and then, you know, whatever. And he ends up getting 20 because he's that fast. And there's been almost none of that since like 2019 with Delvin Cook, where it was a

legitimate threat to have screens and check downs and swing passes with the potential to turn into explosive plays, which has made it. So the quarterback always has to complete the ball down the field to get an explosive play with Chandler. There's the possibility of that happening even without it. And then also we don't know if Justin Jefferson's coming back, but it does feel like if you have this running game, then you are giving him the sort of full breadth of what you're capable of doing. So long as Chandler can handle all those assignments. Yeah. As long as Chandler can handle it, it does what we talked about last week.

It takes pressure off Josh stops, right? That's the, that's the number one thing right now is you don't want to put too much on his plate. Like every quarterback, the NFL is going to have pressure. It just comes with the position. But when you talk about the circumstances in which Josh Dobbs is here and the fanfare and the media attention, everything like that all adds just little added pressures here and there all over him. So we can say, hey, let's rely on a little bit more of a running game than we've had in the past and not ask you to do too much and have to put your Superman cape on and put you in a position to fail and put everything in the deck and stack the deck to put you in the best position to succeed, especially if Justin Jefferson comes back, you start finding a way. He's starting to find ways to get the ball to Josh Oliver all of a sudden. And you're like, okay, this is going to look a little different now than it was with Kirk Cousins back here. We're going

to accept that. Let's find a way to put our offense around you and huddle around you. And I think a lot of that has to come down with the run game. And overall, I thought ending room, I thought that Brian O'Neill, Derisaw, Dalton Reiser, I thought that for the most part, they did a pretty good job opening holes in the run game. They did a nice job on their double teams. You know, it did kind of in the second half, start looking like it was always the one guy that missed this block or this guy fell off late and it kind of that that issue reared its ugly head a little bit but if you can continue to just getting back and Chandler trusting this offensive line and getting in a rhythm with them then yeah I think that adds a huge element to this run game that the Vikings just been lacking

through the first half of the season let's talk about Josh Jobs a little bit here and evaluate his game because when I was looking back at the tape and comparing it to the numbers I felt like most of the pressure was caused by Josh Dobbs himself that the pass protection was overall pretty solid I mean there's one time where Derisaw gets beat but not most of the night and once again the weak links were just not that weak that there wasn't a I don't remember too many snaps. Maybe there was one where he drops back and instantly someone's breaking through and causing problems. But I also think that you mentioned that everyone's talking about Josh Dobbs. I'm certain that the ESPN people are out here playing the dramatic music, showing rockets and, you know,

talking to his family and everything else and one of the main central parts of his success is scrambling making plays off script and two of the plays are like that they result in touchdowns there's also two sacks that I think were probably his fault as well and this scrambling thing is a really tricky beast because it can either look incredible or look terrible. And I thought that the mix of that was 50 50 in this game against the Broncos. And I think what they want to do this week is talk about with him. Don't be thinking of that first, like be okay with throwing the ball away. And one thing he keeps doing is turning back to his right. And buddy, if there's somebody there that's going to be a problem so i do think that this is a hard psychological thing for for somebody to deal with

and maybe you could talk to this with even case keenum where case keenum's coach in 2017 is saying stop doing that because you're going to get killed or you're going to throw bad picks and in washington you remember 2017 way ahead game should be over throws a couple of picks allows Washington back in the game like this is something that I think is going to have to be managed with Josh Jobs the rest of the way yeah and you know I look at it from that perspective too and I kind of went back and thought like okay well what does he had to do all year you know in Arizona he had to create like he had to because he was the entire offense like he was everything there was no one else around him to help and so he had to do all year. You know, in Arizona, he had to create, right? He had to, because he was the entire offense. Like he was everything. There was no one else around him to help. And so he had to throw his super rank and go, okay, I'm going to run around and do all this stuff. And you can't

just strip that out of a guy's DNA. Like you can't just be like, Hey, you don't do that now. It's fine. You're good. You're not the best player on this team anymore. It's fine. Right? Those dudes feel like that. And also kind of a journeyman backup quarterback, you always are feeling the need to prove yourself. I am still trying to prove that I am a starting caliber quarterback in the league and I can create and do things as cool as Patrick Mahomes or Jalen Hurts or Josh Allen. I can do those things. You get yourself into trouble while doing them. You're going to make some great plays too, but the more you get yourself into trouble, the more you start having to feel like you force those plays even more because you're like, shoot, that didn't work last time. So I got to still prove to people that I can still do it.

Right. And that's kind of the psyche that he's getting himself caught into. And yeah, you talked about it. And I mean, even on that touchdown pass that he had where he ran to the corner of the end zone, if that's sweat next week, running up and Brian O'Neill's running them by the pocket, you're going to get killed get killed like because you're turning into that and a quarterback's not thinking of protecting as guys escape out the back of the pocket that's not as a tackle as what we're thinking about and you're asking for injury you know but overall I think he just needs to settle into I don't need to do everything and it's okay to fire a ball for a check down for four yards instead of trying to scramble for the big play. It's okay if it's not there, I can launch it out of bounds.

No one gives a crap about my completion percentage. No one's talking about my completion percentage. It's not a big deal. I'm just here to help win football games. And we have enough talent on this roster and have talent in this receiver room that I'm okay in second and 10. It's not the end of the world if we don't gain a big chunk on first down because we can make it back on second and 10. It's not the end of the world. If we don't gain a big chunk on first down, because we can make it back on second and 10. Like we're not completely dead in the water, like the New York giants or the New York jets, where if we don't gain at least three or four on first down, we might as well punt,

right? Like that's not what this roster is built like. And the more he can understand that, and the more he had KOC can ingrain that into him over the next few weeks, we'll see what kind of growth and development he can have as a player going into this starting quarterback role for the foreseeable future. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year, but if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six players stat projections, and that's it. Now you're playing. So if it's X number of yards for

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something that i think hit people a little bit was exactly what you said journeyman backup quarterback in at some moments against denver and in my mind it was a bringing the pressure on yourself which is a backup quarterback kind of thing to do. Also though, when he had clean pockets, he was a great quarterback when he had clean pockets. And that's part of the thing I think he needs to remember is there's going to be a lot of clean pockets with this team as Kirk Cousins was benefiting from before he got hurt. But statistically and PFF grade wise and everything else, Dobbs was dominant when he had those clean pockets. So don't change anything for you? Because I think there were some moments where you could say didn't change anything where Hockinson's wide open and he just flings it down the field. It's like, oh yeah, that's right. Receivers are wide open.

Addison runs this. I couldn't tell live. I'd have to look at it again, but there's different names for it. Like circus route, squirrel route, where there's a lot to it and it's hard to do for receivers, but if they can, they're open like every time, you know, like, oh, there's a lot to it and it's hard to do for receivers but if they can they're open like every time you know like oh there's addison wide open every time again so there's moments where you're like yeah that's right you can pump this up enough and then there were other moments going okay right there's some shortcomings here if that brought it back down or you thought well you know overall he still played pretty well. If somebody doesn't beat Ty Chandler and strip sack him, we might be talking about another win and 120 quarterback rating from Josh Dobbs. Yeah, it really doesn't change a whole lot for me. I think this next game for me will be the more of the decision because how does he, how does he bounce back from a performance like that,

that was dominant, but he's going to get criticism for because they lost the game, right? How do you handle that type of thing in a market that is very different than Arizona, in a very hyper-focused Minneapolis market, in a playoff caliber team, and then you're going up against a stretcher that looks as very winnable games. You've got to get yourself right before you start heading into Detroit and Cincy and all those things. But I don't think it changes a whole lot because he did enough to let this team win. You know,

yes, he didn't have the clutch moment at the end, but he didn't, he didn't do something that like you look at and go, he lost us the football game. Right. And that's what you want out of your quarterback is, did he put us in a position to win the game at the end?

Did he do everything right? Or did he lose us this football game? And I can't pin this loss on Josh Dobbs. So for me, it doesn't change a whole lot about what we might do in the future now this time 27 days from now depending how he looks at a kind of a bounce back type of game for him that'll be a little bit different conversation where i struggle a little bit with the content decisions on this show is where look they're six and five this run to the end is going to be something i mean because this

is a bears team that after acquiring montez sweat has a little bit more dangerous defense and pass rush than you saw last time they are good at stopping the run so if ty chandler doesn't get 120 yards don't be surprised because they're one of the top teams against the run they also have a very clever head coach defensively i I'm not saying he's a great head coach in general, but I think Eber Fluss knows what he's doing defensively against a less experienced in this offense quarterback. So there's the possibility of coming up short in this game or winning another game, getting the seven and five going into the bi-week coming out with Justin Jefferson, potentially, if he doesn't come back this week and, and facing everyone except for, uh, you know, since, or, um, everyone except Detroit, where you feel like you

can win these games. Like there's a big swing there. And yet I still want to spend the next 40 minutes with you talking only about the future of the quarterback situation. And I was sort of like trying to like preview the next game, but also be like, yeah, you know, Jalen Daniels did it again, man. I don't care who's playing against that was awesome you know what i mean like i am legitimately struggling with how much to dedicate to that because every week is a new referendum on will it be dobbs will cousins come back should i be watching you know all the the draft quarterbacks each week i i think it's a little bit tough to to balance now. I think the equation looks the more we win, the less you look at draftable quarterbacks

because it just keeps pushing us down and down and down the list of when we're going to draft and when we're going to be able to draft in the first round. And you have to start looking to more of the future of are we just going to stick with what we have and try and build around what we have? And it's a conundrum to be in because it literally will ebb and flow every single week. Every single week, it will be a

different feeling, right? As soon as Kirk Cousins got hit, boom, hit the draft. Let's see what we got. We're going to figure it out. Oh, we traded for who? Oh, that guy? Oh, well, he's a placeholder. Maybe he'll win us a few games. And then he comes out, lights on fire, like, well, maybe this guy is the guy, right? And then you hear the rumblings, well, Kirk Cousins said he would come back. It's literally an ebb and flow every single week, and so as a content creator in the Minnesota

Viking space, it's impossible to ignore. It's impossible to ignore because it's going to be the story until night one of draft night. It is. Regardless of how the season ends, if we have a playoff run, it's going to be one conversation. If we lose out, it's going to be another conversation. But it's going to be the focal point of Minnesota Vikings media leading up to the draft because as you see around the league, you can't win

with backup quarterbacks. Look at the Bengals. Joe Burrow's done. They might as well fold up tent and go home. No one's thinking, oh, they're going to put it together. The Giants. Daniel Jones gets hurt. Fold up tent and go home, right? No one's thinking, oh, they're going to, they're going to put it together, right? The Giants, Daniel Jones gets hurt, fold up tent and go home, right? It's just not a thing where you can think bringing in a backup quarterback and winning a playoff game and going and recreating what we did in 2017 with Case Keenum is a realistic thing, but somehow the Vikings put themselves in these conundrums over and over again, where it just makes really hard decisions from the upper management and the front office of what do we do? Right. And they could be all good decisions, but they are career type trajectory changing decisions for front offices.

Let me ask you this question when and I know that you didn't end up coming back after 2017. 17 uh but uh your perspective just as you were going to carolina's free agent and so forth when the vikings decided they were not going to bring back case keenum like how did you feel about that because that was i mean it felt it's the same as this does right now i mean with more momentum as it went along but there was this weekly debate of his case gonna keep doing this because zimmer kind of says he's not and zimmer clearly wants Teddy back. And I think the locker room, some people want Teddy back and what, and yet he just kept doing it, but they never bought it. They never thought this guy's got the skill to be our franchise quarterback. What did you think of it when they decided to move on? You know, I, I understood it because I really do think that the difference with that year compared to now is the defense that we had in 2017 and knew what was coming back in 2018.

Everyone had spun themselves up and convinced themselves we were a quarterback away. That was it. That was the one piece that was missing from them being a Super Bowl contender going to the NFC Championship again was we are a quarterback away. That is the only missing piece in this. And we cannot gamble that possibility on Case Keenum, right? That for me, I understood. I think all the players would understand either way if they brought him back or didn't because they'd be like, well, I mean, look what he just did. And rightfully so I was like, he deserves to get paid somewhere. And the Broncos did. And ultimately it didn't work out

for the Broncos, worked out for Case, got the check. But I think this is a slightly different situation because the defense, as good as it is playing, is not even in the same category of that 2017 defense if you really look at it objectively. And so you can't convince yourself that the 2024 Minnesota Vikings are only a quarterback away. That's not the issue on this team. And so that's, when I look at it,

it's going to be a lot of decisions of, do we really focus on that's the one piece that we need and that'll push us over the edge, or do we need to work on other things? And that brings into draft capital, and that brings in our salary cap and all those other things versus in 2018, it was the clear and only thing we are a quarterback away.

And that's why the conversation is a little different. So I wasn't surprised they moved on from Case, but this is a similar situation with just slightly different wrinkles in the fact that they have a little bit more options than Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater, or free agent. There is a comparison here for sure with looking at kind of how the defense is elevated, but not talent wise. Talent wise, it is just not close and i think if i remember correctly it was number one in run number one in pass number one

in points number one on third down it was just like everything across the it was insane right clear cut you had all pros pro bowlers xavier rhodes is playing his best ball uh you know eric kendrickson anthony barb emerged everson griffin is playing like a monster i mean just and and harrison smith made a case in my mind for defensive mvp that year that's just across the board this is a team that has a defensive coordinator who is squeezing every ounce of blood out of the stone but one thing i was talking to somebody very smart about the defensive side of things that said, look, if the lions just throw a bunch of underneath stuff against this team, they could put up a lot of points. Like they haven't really played a team that's fully taken advantage. They

haven't played too many teams that are actually good offensively, including Denver, which is not a good offensive team that is just squeaking by with turnover randomness and will fall off the face of the cliff at some point soon enough. Now that is not to take away, but if we're making the comparison, but here's the other way to look at that is the 2017 team was as good of a roster as you're ever going to find outside the quarterback. I mean, just period. You put a really good quarterback on that team. You are going to the super bowl, but this team can ascend in the future so the 2017 team was only going to get worse in 2018. i remember writing this like you really shouldn't bank on the peak staying at the peak especially when you lose your swing tackle come on i love you or or uh or mr

mr third down jarius wright who actually did have a lot of big catches in 2017. That that one and less kidding around. That was a big loss. But the point just being that with this team ascending, it sort of seems like if you put a bridge quarterback on the team, and it maybe doesn't cost as much and you're filling in pieces around it, you're signing people, someone like Josh Dobbs and then drafting a quarterback, that that's what you do with a team on the rise, not necessarily bring back an older quarterback and put them on there and say, like, we're all set. We just need to have him. And then we win the Superbowl. Right. Yeah, you're exactly right. This is a team that is not at its peak. It's climbing and it's a couple of pieces away from really starting the truest end right to the

summit they're right there and a quarterback is a big piece but you can't build the pieces around when you're paying quarterbacks top-notch money it just doesn't work it's just it's a it's a proven failure around the league i mean look at mahomes he's making all this money and he has no one to throw the ball to right no one's there and that's a drafted Rice, but Valdez Scantley is a good receiver. He's dropping it. You're fourth down 25. You throw an absolute dot to, I think it was Brate, and he just drops it. There's just so many different things that go into the decision-making of how do we build a team and how do we build around the quarterback. In 2018, you make the case that the best defense, we lost no one. No one left that defense.

There's some free agents on this team. There's some free agents on the Vikings right now. There's some guys that are going to be wanting to get paid elsewhere, guys that are going to bring money in. And I still do think that the best thing to do is either bring Dobbs back on a team-friendly deal and draft a quarterback, or you bring Cousins back and then you try and build everyone around. But either way, you just got to look at it from a numbers and sense perspective of understanding

we have to get better talent in the door on defense defensively especially in order to do that you have to spend money and in order to spend money you can't pay your quarterback 40 million dollars a year well and daniel hunter has certainly made things interesting here as well because he has played so well he has stayed healthy now for two straight seasons I don't know how much more you can ask from Daniil Hunter and yet they've kicked the ball down the road over and over and over with him and now you've reached a point where that decision has to be made but you can't franchise tag him that was in the deal that they worked out for him to stay. And if you look around the roster, you go like,

well, who's the next man up? I've been happy with the way DJ Wanham has played, but that's more of a rotational player, I think on a really good team. And there's no pass rush from the interior that we can look at and say, oh, well, you know, this next guy's coming up and he's going to be able to play all this time. So there have been created a lot of really difficult decisions for them. I think going forward in part by the fact that they might have to go back and say, Daniel, look, we didn't mean it. We just thought, you know, your neck was going to fall off. So no big deal. Uh, because he has played as well as anybody at that position in the league. I want to, I want to talk about, um, going forward here as they go to play the Chicago bears. I thought Brian Flores was just playing

mind games with, uh, you know, Justin Fields the last time they played and his head was absolutely spinning. He did look better against Detroit. I don't think Detroit has a very good defense still, but he looked a little bit better and he's seen it once. And Justin field seems to be a guy where right when you get to the edge and you go, nah, nah, nah, he stinks.

He'd get rid of him. And then he does something great. You're like, Oh, well maybe, yeah, I don't know what's going on there. This is a game.

I wouldn't call it any sort of trap game necessarily, but this is a game where you look at it and go, are you a little more concerned about the bears than their record would suggest yeah and i think you absolutely are you know we just broke down the detroit bears game on another podcast and you're looking at it going they have some dudes now and sweat has invigorated this defensive line it really has he elevated not just their defensive play like their whole defensive line is playing at a different level and that's what happens when you bring a guy like that in right you bring a guy in like that's like this is the alpha you follow him right cool everyone follows that guy and all of a sudden everyone starts playing better and so defensively

i like the way that they play they play fast they play physical they get after the quarterback really well they got after goff really i mean mean, against a good, a good offensive line in Detroit. No, they got after Goff, but Fields is he's, he's a conundrum. He's a conundrum when you look at him and go, who are you and what do you do? And are you a leader? Are you not? Are you a great passer? Are you a running back? Like, what are you? And sometimes that's a harder thing to defend than just when you go in and you're like, I know what this dude is. I know what Jared Goff is. I know what Joe Burrow is. I know what these guys are and I know what to expect when I get them. And you can try and frustrate those guys, but they always have that kind of niche ability of making something happen where all of a sudden

you're like, well, we haven't bottled it up in the past game. Oh shit. There he goes for 80 yards. Right? Like that's the kind of thing that fields can do where you just look at him and go, okay, so how do we want to stop him? Do we want to make him one dimensional, right? Do we want to make him? So, Hey, we're going to rush him with five, spy him in the pocket and try and get him to create with his legs and then attack, or, Hey, we want to drop back in coverage and dare him to throw the football because he hasn't been great. They only have DJ more and Cole commits kind of figuring it out. Like, I just don't know what you really do as a game plan wise to say, how do we one dimensional Justin fields? and that's part of the allure of why bears fans want to keep him want to move on from him because he is just kind of that conundrum quarterback of you're not

real sure how to defend against him he just looked like he was looking at one thing and one thing only and then running against the vikings last time i don't expect that to be different. The thing is though, that DJ Moore is so good and fields is so good with his legs that even if that is the case, and even if he is confused and even if he does throw it to the wrong place, or even if he does just take off when he's not supposed to, there's always that possibility of it turning into something really good for them. And that makes them a little more scary than you would expect if you were playing like your routine run of the mill backup quarterback. And it just I don't know. Momentum is a hard thing to figure out. And you hear broadcasters talk about all the time. They got momentum going into this game.

They lose by 25. It's like, I don't know, maybe they didn't. You know, like, I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes that that's it doesn't really work that way. At the same time, the way that they just played with fields, there is a such thing. I think is belief that earlier when we saw them, the, the, at that point, there didn't seem like there was a lot of belief, I guess. Well, you know what? Maybe even that's wrong because they were coming off that Washington game where everyone declared him a good quarterback.

So it is, uh, is, uh, I guess, i guess a thing that i'm not able to pin down but the way that he played last week sort of shows again that he can always pop up and do something against you and the other thing i was thinking about too is this florist defense is really hanging on by the skin of their teeth i mean like they're doing really well, but it took a bunch of red zone stops, you know, and they're still missing Jordan Hicks here, which they, I think, did a decent job of making up for. We saw when you go down from a Caleb Evans to the next guy that, look, he's more of a nickel corner.

He's not going to be able to stop Cortland Sutton. And that gives me pause about this game, is that the defense has been so good for so long that there may be a breaking point game for them. Yeah. And I, I don't think it's going to be against the bears. No, I don't, I just don't be based off the fact of, you know, they're going to run the football. That's what they want to do. Like this isn't a team that scares me. That's going to go throw 40 points up against us because things are going amok. Like it's not the Niners it's not the Eagles it's not Kansas City when

they're on their points like it's still the Bears but the thing that scares me about the Bears against this defense is if they try and just start doing death by a thousand paper cuts and just running the ball right up the middle which is what's in their DNA and what they want to do right if Herbert's coming back and feeling better foreman was running the ball well like they've got enough backs to be dangerous that they may just be like listen this is a defense that is blitzing and running and moving all over the place let's just see if we can't just keep pounding it up the middle four yards four yards four yards take pressure off of fields and then take a deep shot to dj more every now and then or cole command over the middle

like that's what scares me more about this bears team is that it's going to be boring football that beats us if it does, because that's what they want to do, you know? And also looking at this game from last week to fields played well with elite, but when it came nut cutting time at the end of the game and things were going like he gets to 10 yards and he stands there like a statue and here comes Aiden Hutchinson, right? Like, so his, his awareness at the end of games in the end of half and the two minute situations aren't great and so if we can get a lead on him and force him into having to throw the football more that's where it gets well but if we allow them to hang in and allow them to keep the running game going

that's what scares me more about this Barrett's team of beating us and again not a trap game of more of just man physically they just kept running at us and you saw denver towards the end of the game just running it right up the middle over and over and over again like they're going to watch that tape and go how do they do that how do they exploit that how do we get back to that that's what scares me more about this bears team than anything all right before we go to uh love to see it hate to see it did you change your mind i forget what you said last week was it 10 wins you had them last week uh is there any mind changing at all I still have them at nine I think nine nine wins is still where I have this team um I want to be wrong I really do I hope they make me wrong but I just

the inconsistency across the board of the quarterback play that we just don't know what we're seeing week to week and the ability of this defense can they just keep doing it can they find a way every single week from now until january 4th to do it over and over and over again it's just hard for me to say yes to both those things the uh extremes are so much more interesting to talk about so if you talk about nine it's like yeah no you're probably right it's sort of like saying you know what's they go to the weatherman what's the weather todd well you know uh it's like 62 it's a little gray out there i don't know back to you it's like where where todd the weatherman gets pumped is like oh a storm is coming you're never

gonna believe this one and then people are mad if it's not the storm of the century. Like let, let Todd cook. Okay. I feel the same way sometimes where it's like, yeah, nine wins. All right, everybody. Well, we'll catch you next time. And we'll see what we talk about then. But I mean, you know, like you want to say like, I don't know, you go through this schedule and if you can reel off these wins, what the Denver game did was said, no, Todd, you got to be realistic.

That's a little bit of what it did. If you win that game, and again, they outplayed them, but it fumbles and stuff. But if they win that game, and then we're talking about seven and four, then we're going 11. Are we going watch out, you know, succeed, watch out whoever they're going to play in the playoffs go on the road they're gonna be scary and it's a it's just a little harder to say that like i i'm not taking back everything we said last week among the excitement for josh dobbs it's just

that it forces you to be like oh yeah they're actually only like 68 to make the playoffs right now they could still have things go bad or they could have them go mediocre. And that's exactly what Vikings fans are tired of. So anyway, uh, anything else on that? And where do you want to go? Love to see it. Hate to see it. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to love to see it of rivalry week in college football. I love this week in college football. It's one of my favorites. I mean, obviously the Ohio state Michigan game is going to be the one that everyone's looked at, one and two, figuring it out. But I love the Civil War between Oregon and Oregon State.

Obviously you have Nebraska-Iowa with the under total being like 14, which I still might take the under. But I love the final week of college football. It makes me sad and happy all at the same time as we head into bowl prep season. But that's why I love to see it. It's a great week of college football it makes me sad and happy all at the same time as we head into bowl prep season but that's what i love to see is just it's a great week of college football i'm gonna go hate to see it biopics because i'm watching the game yeah i'm watching the game last night and i keep seeing these commercials for napoleon i'm like look we have done a biopic on just about everybody we ran out of people and we ended up at napoleon after after doing these movies about famous historical figures one through 1478 and was like anybody want

to talk about napoleon like i don't know man what more do we need to know about napoleon and then it turns out that the guy who did it like he's not even doing it historically accurately. He just did it for the vibes. Like just, I got nothing. I got nothing. I just picked one like Genghis Khan's up next. I don't know. Like who are like the five most obvious historical figures you got? Like we need another Jesus biopic.

We need one on Napoleon, Abe Lincoln, which I didn't need the last time they did it. And that was terrible. I what? Stop. I'm tired of seeing the commercials i'd rather watch the movie about the lizard that's played by adam sandler that's hate to see it i love that out of you that's a great left field i was like biopics is that some new stat website that i don't know about yet like where's matt pulling these stats out of now

um my hate to see it is the cincinn, Joe Burrow, done for the year, seeing the stat that he has now been sacked more times than Andrew Luck was in his first however many games. And it's just one of those where you look at it and go, man, that season's over, right? That season's done. They're done. They were already trying to claw themselves back in the race after Joe Burrow started slowly. Now you lose your $275 million quarterback. You might as well just go back to the drawing board. And that sucks for that fan base on a team that I picked at the beginning of the year to win it all.

A lot of teams picked at the beginning of the year, like, this is the year, this is the time. And, you know, to see the agony that Joe Burrow was in when he tried to throw that football on the sideline and the pain that he was in, and then hearing he popped a tendon in his wrist, such a weird thing. But also also how does a quarterback come back from that like that's not an injury that you're super used to hearing of yeah he blew his wrist on his throwing charm he's fine like he'll be fine 100 like it's one of those things where it questions will he be back will he ever be who he is all those things and to have that swirling around Cincinnati with

all the success that they've had in the last few years really just sucks, and I hate to see that. I mean, the injuries to quarterbacks have been so excessive this year. It's just absurd, including with Kirk Cousins and guys who have been healthy. Joe Burrow, they were just getting going. They looked like a team that could really compete for the Super Bowl down the stretch, and then that ends up happening to them. Of course, that does benefit the Minnesota Vikings at some point, uh, here when they play Cincinnati. Um, let's see, what did I have? Uh, I think I was conflicted between love to see it and hate to see it for this one. So Tom Brady goes on TV and he says, football is too mediocre. Now that's my problem. I've seen

you on Twitter today. I've seen you on Twitter today. Well, first of all, I had to point out that he beat, you know, EJ manual, Trent Edwards, Kellen Clemens, Cleo lemon, like all these quarterbacks in the AFC East who were terrible for many years. I remember a lot of mediocrity. He was just on the right side of it. So of course it's like, no, I beat Ray Lewis every week. That's all I remember. It's all I remember. And, uh, but here's, so I hate to see that one because it's just like not accurate, bro. Like you were, you were racking up 13 win seasons with a lot of wins in the AFC East. That was not good for many years. However, here's where I love to see it is Tom Brady is finally old for so many years. Tom Brady was forever young. And it was like, oh, this man, he never ages. He's out of the league one year. And he's like,

it's better when I was around. And I'm like, Tom, welcome. You're old now. So I, you know, I couldn't help myself. I went back 10 years on the internet and found articles from 2013 where veteran players were going, the league's soft now the competition's not as good like it's but this is what this is what people this is what happens to people they get old they go it wasn't as good when i was around my age so welcome tom brady welcome to being an old guy finally my one rebuttal to that is the piece on that. I really did appreciate him saying is the product in the league is diminishing. And you know what that means is I'm not saying that the league is worse because Tom Brady is out of it,

but he is talking about the development of young players in the league and what the product on the field is looking like. And we talk about this at the beginning of the year, all the time of like, why does it take teams so long to get going? It's like, well, they didn't practice a whole lot in training camp, right? There wasn't the

physicality, the calluses weren't built up. Like all that is taking time where it's now in the middle of the season. Like you get one padded practice a week. It's like, well, how do you expect us to have a run game? Right? Like that's the kind of stuff that I think he's talking about with the product and the lack of development and how quickly coaches are moved in and moved out. And now that draft class that was that coach's guys,. The new coach comes in like, not my guys. I'm picking someone else. Right. Those are the kind of things that I did agree with him on that.

And as far as like the league becoming soft, it's about player safety. It's about the blockbuster movie that is the NFL every Sunday. The blockbuster is better when you have the best actors in it, which is the quarterbacks. So I get what they're saying, but I do wish that the player safety piece would take a little bit back of understanding. This is still a physical, violent football game. No one out there has a gun press to their head that says you must play this game, right? Everyone has taken it up to go out there and knowing that there's an inherent risk in this game. So yeah, I may be old and out of the league too, but I did appreciate some of the things he did say.

Look, I'm still playing Madden 05 in my base. my base okay so i mean i'm watching games where steve young is playing against jim everett on youtube and uh having a good time so that's why i was saying like i'm sort of conflicted is it love to see it or hate to see it uh because it happens to all of us yeah for me like one of the things is that if you go younger in the nfl in any capacity you're a genius like that's how people will talk about you like oh he's going younger he's so smart and I know some of this is the Vikings too uh refreshing their roster but what has been shown over the years is that a lot of times more experience on a team better correlates to whether you win the Super Bowl or not or

compete for the Super Bowl or not. So there is a lot of teams that in order to try to like show how smart they are as management, they get rid of a lot of veteran players as like a this is the smart thing to do. But that's just a roll of the dice with the draft. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And if you don't have the right development system and if you don't give enough time, we're seeing that this year, like Josh Metellus, that's like four years that they've been to work with the guy before he's any good for the most part. Like you said, new GMs come in, new coaches come in, they get rid of everybody. They go young again, those guys fail. And they also play a lot. So the, you know, the, you know, offense defense technique and stuff like that, it can be not as good.

There's 32 teams, but the reality of this year is I've felt this about this year, all those quarterback injuries. If you put all those quarterbacks back on those teams that were injured, it's a hell of a league this year, but instead, you know, we're watching a lot of backups play in a lot of ugly football. So anyway, both love and hate to see a Tom Brady, but let's just all remind you that JP Lossman, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, EJ manual, Tyrod Taylor. These are the quarterbacks that you beat in the AFC East. So, you know, a lot of home playoff games. They helped you get anyway. Uh, Jeremiah Searles, great stuff. We will talk again. Uh, I assume next week on on tuesday we'll

we'll have you won't have time to maybe look at the tape but we'll we'll figure out a way we grind it'll have to be i'm going to the giants game this weekend i'm going to the giants patriots game watch my client john michael play so we'll have to push it maybe a day or so but we will we will record next week maybe the first not tuesday but i promise we okay yeah wow you've been really consistent this week but but should have expected regression. All right, well, we'll figure it out. We'll definitely be together next week. Thanks, Jeremiah.

We'll talk soon. Later.