Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - It was a rough ride but the Vikings survived the Saints in London

Episode Date: October 2, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic are joined by Jonathan Harrison, who was in England covering the Vikings matchup with the New Orleans Saints. It was a wild win that included some frustrating moments for the offense but the Vikings survived. Jonathan updates us on Lewis Cine and what players were saying from the locker room after the win. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, maybe you've been a little confused when you're in the water section of the grocery store and you see what looks like tall boy beer cans. Well, that is water and it's called liquid death, because it will brutally murder your thirst first and because they are infinitely recyclable tall boy cans which are helping to bring death to plastic bottles also liquid death donates 10 of their profits from each can sold to help kill plastic pollution liquid death sent me a few cases and i have to say that i have some family members who were over and they looked at me funny knowing that I'm not a drinker, so I had to explain, no, it's water and it's helping the environment. You see, bottled water is coming almost always in plastic bottles, which is not great for the environment because most plastic still ends up in a landfill. Aluminum is recyclable and actually profitable for recycling facilities. So yeah, when you drink Liquid Death, you might have some people thinking that you're pounding a tall

boy at your desk at 9 a.m., but you're really enjoying how cold it comes out of the fridge. And as a big soda drinker, I can tell you that I've enjoyed the sparkling lime flavor in particular. So go get Liquid Death at wherever you do your grocery shopping, 7-Eleven, Hy-Vee, wherever it might be. Or check out where you can find it at their store locator tool at liquiddeath.com slash insider. That is liquiddeath.com slash insider. Sider. Hello, welcome to the London Double Doink post-game show. Matthew Collar here. Jonathan Harrison is in London. Paul Hodowanek here as well. We got a little roundtable action going after this game. And I just want to start out by saying that this one,

I look at a little bit differently than I looked at the game last week because it was in London and because every game in London is absolutely crazy, but we will get into everything that went on with the Vikings, keeping the New Orleans saints in that game and how it ended, of course, with the saints nearly double doinking their way to at least tying and sending that game to overtime.

But let's send it out first to Jonathan Harrison, who is there postgame. You just returned from the locker room, and I want to begin with an update on Louis Seen, who got hurt at the beginning of the game. What is being said about Louis Seen's injury, Jonathan? Yeah, so Kevin O'Connell in the press conference said that it was a lower leg fracture. He will undergo surgery here in London. Team officials will stay with him until he's able to come back to the States. So it sounded pretty serious. He was pretty emotional talking about it. Kirk Cousins started his press conference

talking about it, saying prayers are with him and it seemed like all the guys when they were asked about it were pretty emotional because he is they've all kind of taken him under their wing trying to get him up to speed trying to get him up to being a professional football player and have to have this happen four games into his rookie season it's just it's a tough break for him especially because he was getting a little bit more play time as we saw early on in the game and then that just happened and it was a pretty serious situation the stadium did get really quiet when it happened so yeah he will stay here in London after undergoing surgery here yeah that's a uh a really really tough setback for Louis seen who I know that Kevin O'Connell

had talked about making progress and I know Josh Metel has started over him two weeks ago but now this is a major setback for somebody who was already like trying to get out of the gate in his career so that's very tough and that's kind of one of the bigger takeaways from today but the other one Jonathan is just how everybody feels about this because the debates are raging on on on social media and so forth about how excited Vikings fans should be. And last week against Detroit, I thought there was a very reasonable argument to say the Vikings were just gifted that win. I don't know if it was gifted. It just was not pretty at all to get to three and one. I think a lot of the the overriding message was that there's still a lot of things that need to be worked on, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

They mentioned that several times, is that they would get into the red zone, but then it just seemed like things would stutter. They had to settle for five field goals on the evening. And there was a lot of comments about how they just have stuff to work on. They're happy to get the win. They're happy to go 3-1, breaking the season down into four-game sections. Being 3-1 at this point, whether it looks good or bad at this point, they're all taking that as a positive.

Yeah, I think generally I reject the notion that we shouldn't be critical of this win because it felt like they probably should have won by a lot more than they did in this game. I think there were several questionable coaching decisions on when to go for it, when not to go for it. There were blunders on pretty much all sides of the ball that kind of hurt them. I mean, the Saints are without all of their good players, if I may say.

Like, most of their good players were out in this game. And when you go to London, that should only be exasperated. That talent disparity should only show its head even more when the backups suddenly need to go out there in this weird environment. It's one thing for the starters to do that. It's another thing for backups who aren't very good to begin with to go out there. So I think we'll definitely get into some of the criticism. But yeah, at the end of the day, they're 3-1.

That sets them up really, really well in the division, really well in an NFC that continues to look weak. Every time we add one of these wins, the Vikings add one of these wins, it just becomes a math problem for the, well, they're going to blow this. Like every win they add, it just becomes harder and harder to envision, especially as they continue to have easy teams coming up.

I think entering this week, they had about the fourth easiest schedule per Football Outsiders DVOA. So every time they stack one of these wins, that just makes it better and their odds better and better. I mean, that's self-explanatory, but at the end of the day, it doesn't quite matter how these go. But I think if you want to use this game to project how they look against better teams, teams that have their starting quarterback, have their

starting running back, have their best wide receiver, have their starting safeties, like we're going to need to see more from this team. But yes, I think you're allowed to say, I'm happy with this win. And when the situation around them, when they're back home, when it's not London, maybe it can get better. But now it's the second, really third week in a row that there have been some big question marks, particularly with the offense. And I think those will continue to be a question mark, especially as you try to project them against some of the better teams down the road.

And Jonathan, it seems like they agree with what Paul just said. Yeah, I mean, Patrick Peterson mentioned this was, these are the bounces that they got, especially the double doing, the bounces that they didn't get last season. They're now getting them this season. So they understand there's plenty to work on it seems, but they are happy with how these bounces are now going their way instead of against them. Like it did a lot of times last season. Yeah. It's funny because, uh, it's like,

you know, last year they had so many of those close games. And one of the things that I felt myself repeating during the off season is that you don't get to replay the season with Kevin O'Connell coaching and see what happens. Maybe you do like maybe every week is going to be this way. And this is where, this is where I do want to get into what happened here because the Vikings came out, Jonathan, with an extremely impressive first drive. And it looked like, okay, they snapped their fingers. They fixed a lot of the problems. They got Justin Jefferson, the ball touchdown, here they go. And then the saints look completely inept from the beginning of the game. And I think that we all thought, all right, well,

this should be just a blowout because the saints look completely lost. They couldn't run the football. Dalton wasn't throwing it any more than four yards down the field. What was your sense having been there for why they couldn't carry that over through the rest of the game? It was really hard to place a figure on it. And even the guys in the press conference, Kirk Cousins and Adam Thielen, were struggling to put a finger on why things kind of lulled after that first drive. They did mention that it was a really good game plan coming out and that it helped getting that fast start, getting the ball to Justin Jefferson right away, as they did a couple times in that first drive. That really helped things.

But then it just seemed like everything just started stalling. Kirk Cousins had a couple throws that went behind his receivers, and it just seemed like certain things just didn't gel and click together. And they struggled to place a finger on it as well. They said they're going to have to go back and look at the tape as to why things kind of lulled after that first drive and why things started to sputter and go back towards the Saints way. I don't know if it was specific game planning. I mean, they couldn't run the ball all day today. And I think that certainly affected them. It's now a couple games where they just haven't been able to get the run

game off the ground. And I think Kevin O'Connell wants to do that occasionally on early downs to get them into third and manageables where it's not put on Kirk Cousins plate and he has a shorter distance to throw. And it just didn't happen. Dalvin cook was not effective today. They were not effective running the ball. They had a 38% success rate running the ball. It was even worse on early downs, only a 30% success rate running on early down. So continually that's going to put them in bad spots and it put them in bad spots in the start of the game. And then Kirk just kind of throws a weird interception there. And suddenly

the groove is kind of off. You punt your second drive, then that interception is there and you're just kind of off the field for a while and you don't have time to work through these things. You don't have time for plays to work through and to find the soft spots on the Saints defense that are there because of injuries, that are there because the talent has just depleted over the last couple of years

from when they were one of the best rosters. They didn't quite give themselves time early in that game for that to happen. And then suddenly you could feel it kind of spiraling for them and they need, you know, they need a fake punt to get something going. They need turnovers to get something going. And that was helpful to them.

They get a couple extra field goals, but other than that one touchdown drive in the first half, they weren't really generating offense themselves. It came from a decent drive that got them into field goal range. And then a turnover that got them field goal points. And then they started to get some stuff going a little bit in the second half. But I think part of it just stems from them continually wanting to try to run the ball. And so far they've been very spotty when they've tried to do it. Yeah. They only averaged 6.3 yards per drop back today with Kirk Cousins. And there were a lot of times where either the timing

was off or the ball just looked weird. I mean, Jonathan, again, you're there. You'll have to confirm this or not. Usually I'm there at the game to see it. But there were times where the ball was just hanging up in the air forever. In fact, it's one of the reasons the Vikings won because he threw a balloon into the air and Adam Thielen went up for it and got pass interfered with. And I felt like, you know, there's two different ways to look at it. Like the Vikings, despite not being on the same page, still outplayed New Orleans in a lot of ways and just didn't finish drives, which you would expect them to do. You would also expect Kevin O'Connell to go for a fourth and one. I mean, that's another thing. Like there were a lot of Zimmer-esque type things here,

which made me wonder like, oh, okay, is he having the same trust issues that maybe Mike Zimmer had? Because that should have been an easy call to go for fourth and one. And then the clock mismanagement at the end of the half. So to me, they played a better football game overall than they did last week, but did not capitalize on the opportunities that they got. They forced a couple of fumbles, one on special teams, one on defense. They moved the ball at times and then stalled out on drives and stalled out on drives. But either Cousins doesn't seem super confident just throwing the ball hard or he's not throwing the ball hard

anymore, but whatever it might be, there's something with that. Like maybe it's the timing of these routes and things where he just doesn't feel as confident stepping into it. But the ball that was picked, the throw is a little late. The ball kind of hangs out there. And I guess I came away thinking like they can with this offense have really good days, but it's always been something that's kind of been holding them back. And today it was that they just didn't seem very comfortable. And by the way, no, I know, Jonathan, you were there and not listening to the broadcast, but we got our first zoom in on a frustrated wide receiver. So if you had week five as the over under you hit the under on that one but I don't know what your sense was for the comfort there of Cousins but he just did not look comfortable

so there's a couple things to that he being here you it was definitely noticeable there was a couple times a couple throws early on that he was behind on his receivers throwing the ball behind him there's a throw in the first quarter he throws it behind Justin Jefferson on what looked like a quick out route. Jefferson does a good job of turning back and catching it, but then he gets his knees taken out from underneath him, and it looked kind of scary there for a second. But Jefferson popped up, no problem. Then in the second quarter, he had Jefferson pretty well at the back of the end zone

and then throws it behind him, and that's the ball that kind of gets popped out of Jefferson's hand by the defender. So there was a couple throws early on that were just kind of behind, it seemed like. Those, as you mentioned, just not confident in some of these routes. The timing's off clearly. There was a route to Jalen Rager, I think, in the second quarter that Rager kind of stayed. He sat down and Cousins threw the out route on it,

and it just went out of bounds, and it looked like a really weird play that clearly communications off there between those two. But, yeah, it seems like there's a little bit of – The intentional grounding too, Jonathan. The intentional grounding also is the same, like the receiver's running a different route, and Cousins throws it to nowhere. That one, there was also pressure on him,

an immense amount of pressure early on, so it did seem like he was just trying to get it out to Adam Thielen, but Thielen ran a different route. And I think that's something that you guys talked about these option routes that the receivers and the quarterbacks can just make different or they're supposed to be kind of on the same wavelength there but there's the ability to make a different cut at certain points and it seems like there's still that communication issue still learning this offense a little bit but as for the frustrated receiver comment, that was asked quite a bit between Kevin O'Connell and Justin Jefferson as well.

And O'Connell said that's something he's talked about with Justin Jefferson quite a bit over the last couple of weeks. He knows the past two weeks have not been great, getting Justin Jefferson involved in the game. Jefferson said that a lot of it was just being double and triple teamed, and that was frustrating for him to deal with, and that those two have had conversations about him keeping calm, not throwing the temper tantrums, as Jefferson calls them, and just kind of being a leader in that way and that knowing that he's

going to be the key to how this offense goes, but that when it doesn't go his way, when the ball's kind of taken away from him, that he's getting doubled, triple teamed, he has to keep calm and be happy that it's opening up things for Kj osborne and adam thielen and everybody else on the offense so yeah it's it's a mixture of a lot of things yeah and i think to illustrate your point matt uh about cousins just not trusting some things i mean he threw he nfl next gen stats measures aggressiveness which is just basically how often do you throw to a wide receiver that had within a yard of separation, so tight coverage, basically. He threw into tight coverage 2.6% of the time today,

which I believe, based on his 38 pass attempts, is just one time. So he threw to tight coverage one time all game. And so part of that in the first half was Kevin O'Connell schemed up some nice plays. Dalvin cook was had that, that one pass play where he's wide open. I believe Justin Jefferson ran the same route that he ran during that Packers game that got him the wide open crossing route over the middle.

I think they went back to that play in a big moment, got a call. So some of that is good scheme, but other times that's when drives stall out is Cousins isn't forcing it into kind of that deep coverage, trusting Jefferson, trusting Thielen, maybe trusting the routes in what's going on, because clearly he wasn't aggressive. He wasn't throwing into tight coverage. He threw a minus 1.7 yards, air yards to the sticks.

So he's continuing to check down short of the line to gain. And I think some of the bigger gains, some of the bigger throws to Justin Jefferson later in the game, probably even make that stat look a little bit better than it did. Like he had some late big throws that he made, but I think generally he was throwing very short of the line to gain.

And again, part of that, I think, is the run game, not getting going. But clearly, yeah, there's just some weird things going on with the offense that they're just not quite 100% in sync. And you can see it and you've seen it in these last three games, even though they survived the last two. And yet with Justin Jefferson, he finishes the day with 10 catches, 147 yards,

and the biggest play of the season so far with him going down the sideline, roasting Marshawn Lattimore. And I think that where we've probably landed is that it's sort of the same story as usual where it's like look you're gonna have to scheme dudes open this has always been the case with Kirk Cousins as the quarterback and it might be required even more if there's some juice left off the fastball now, or if he's not a hundred percent confident like he was maybe, you know, 2019 or 2020 in the offense,

because it was an offense that he had played with for a while. And if that's the case, then there's just going to have to be a lot of work done by Kevin O'Connell. And he's not going to get bailed out. Usually if things don't go well. And I think that that was kind of the case today where it was like, he needed to scheme Jefferson Jefferson open a huge play. He needed Jefferson to get a one-on-one to get open. And if those things hadn't happened, this offense is looking basically putrid,

but this is not different. Like this is kind of what has been the case. My thing though, is who's going to stop them? Like I look at the upcoming schedule and you've got the Chicago Bears. After the bye, it's Arizona. Like when the NFC is going to make them pay for this, because that's usually the concept is like, well, you know, if they do this week in and week out, and it's like, and then what?

Justin Jefferson throws for 47 yards. I mean, I guess we'll find out. And I'm sure people went famous last words there. But it feels like they're actually, because of this win, it's the total reverse effect of going one and three. When you go one and three, everyone's panicking. Everything feels like the end of the world. You're desperate to find answers and everything else.

And there's no room for error. And that's been the last two seasons. And that's why in reacting to this, I want to say there is room for error. And that's been the last two seasons. And that's why in reacting to this, I want to say there is room for error and there is room to find out what some of these issues are and improve on them throughout the season and go into the bye week and try to fix as much as you can. This may be the reality of the team that it's just frustrating to watch at times. And especially Jonathan, you said it, if they can't run the football, then there's going to be a lot of tough drives.

But yet finding the way to win has really set them up in a place where they are. They just did a good spot in the NFC. Now, Jonathan, I want to ask you about the atmosphere there. Maybe you can give reaction to what it's like to see a double doink in person. But what was the crowd like throughout the game? It was very interesting. There were moments, because there was a lot of pockets of purple. You could definitely tell that. There was also a very large contingent of Saints fans

who were having their fun when the Vikings were kind of gifting them the game and bringing the Saints back in. They were doing their mock school chants along with some Eagle fans who were wearing their Eagle jerseys. But there was just a lot of different – there was pretty much every single jersey imaginable here. I saw a bunch of Mike Allstott jerseys, which I know you'd appreciate. Maurice Jones-Drew, who was here doing in-house entertainment, found someone with his jersey on, so he made sure to get that guy on the video board. There was – you could tell it was definitely a neutral site game but there was also moments where when the vikings were doing well the vikings fans made it really loud in here and same as the

saints when the saints were doing well they made it really loud in here so it was a really cool atmosphere being it's a very large stadium and the fans that were here for their teams they did make themselves known and they made it very loud and hard to hear and there was a couple times where kirk cousins it seemed like he was struggling with the noise a little bit trying to trying to They did make themselves known, and they made it very loud and hard to hear. And there was a couple times where Kirk Cousins, it seemed like he was struggling with the noise a little bit, trying to audible in a different call. So you could see that just scrambling at the last second, trying to get a call in.

And that's because of the noise that the Saints fans created. It was a pretty awesome atmosphere here at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. And they're still creating some noise around each other. They're still behind me, still drinking heavily. Folks, maybe you've been a little confused when you're in the water section of the grocery store and you see what looks like tall boy beer cans. Well, that is water, and it's called liquid death, which coincidentally is not only not deadly, but also delicious and comes in mountain spring style or sparkling in three different flavors.

Why is water called liquid death? Well, because it will brutally murder your thirst first and because they are infinitely recyclable tall boy cans, which are helping to bring death to plastic bottles. Also liquid death donates 10% of their profits from each can sold to help kill plastic pollution. Liquid death sent me a few cases and I have to say that I have some family members who were over and they looked at me funny knowing that I'm not a drinker so I had to explain no it's water and it's helping the environment. You see bottle water is coming almost always in plastic bottles, which is not great for the environment because most plastic still ends up in a landfill. Aluminum is recyclable and actually profitable for recycling facilities.

So yeah, when you drink liquid death, you might have some people thinking that you're pounding a tall boy at your desk at 9 a.m., but you're really enjoying how cold it comes out of the fridge, and as a big soda drinker, I can tell you that I've enjoyed the sparkling lime flavor in particular. So go get Liquid Death at wherever you do your grocery shopping, 7-Eleven, Hy-Vee, wherever it might be, or check out where you can find it at their store locator tool at liquiddeath.com slash insider. That is liquiddeath.com slash insider. That is LiquidDeath.com slash insider.

And I was just going to say, we started from the top talking about how after this game, Patrick Peterson, Kirk Cousins, they're talking about finally getting breaks kind of going their way. When we talk about the schedule, this is a break that went their way in terms of not having to play this game in New Orleans. For this game to feel like a true neutral site game. Because if they play this type of game, both teams play the way they did. But this is in the Saints Stadium. This margin might have been flipped on its head just based on the field goal kicking and the different big moments that had to happen in this game. So when we talk about breaks, that was certainly one that the Vikings had a feather in their cap, too.

They didn't have to play this game in New Orleans. They could play this game in a neutral site, even though it is a difficult thing to play in London. But everyone's dealing with that. It's not just you. And you seemingly have some more veterans, more of your starters out there. Those all benefit you and it just is another one of those slight little tight margins that shift that can really does mean the difference between one and three and three and one it's a double doink it's these small things that make you feel so much better the things you didn't feel when

you're losing to arizona last year when you're losing to the bangles last year when you're losing to the cowboys or the ravens or the, like all these ones that came down to one score, like all those things so far this year, you've won both your one score games. And so it was never, if you extrapolate out for a full season, it probably wasn't going to be as bad again as it was this year, but it's, you're probably not going to keep going undefeated in these games too. So that's where you have to have that little bit of caution is yeah, you're two and O in these games. You got a double doink, but eventually one of those kicks is going to go in. And one of those Greg Joseph kicks aren't going to go in and things are going to shift. So it's just, it's all going to regress at some point.

And so I think, I think we're seeing that a little bit with this team. There's a, a GIF from the office where I think it's Pam saying like, they're the same picture. It's like last year's one in three, this year, three in one, like it's the same picture. The only difference is year's one and three, this year three and one. Like it's the same picture. The only difference is that Dan Campbell didn't go for it on fourth down and shut the door on the Vikings. And then this time they are literal inches away from allowing the game to be tied.

And I want to ask you, Jonathan, I know you've got to go in a few minutes there if you're not just hauled away by drunkards, which is just about the defense here. Andy Dalton played a better game at quarterback than Kirk Cousins, I think by kind of a lot. And, I mean, the Vikings defense made some plays. Cam Dantzler got a pass breakup, and this is not to say that Dalton played really well,

but as the game was on the line, he found some ways to get the ball to Chris Olave. And overall, he ends up with a statistical, very impressive day, 20 for 28, 236 yards, 108 quarterback rating, had a higher ESPN QBR than Kirk Cousins in this game, which factors in the performance at certain moments as well. This defense, Jonathan, it just feels like every week, this is going to kind of be the thing is if they don't. And even when they did step up and create a big turnover, but they're just going to

give up yards. I mean, this game actually went exactly how I thought that does not happen all that often, but it did today. It was like Dalton completed all of his passes. A lot of them were short, a couple of them hit for deep and the Vikings kind of had to hang on there at the very end defensively. But I don't think it's very inspiring for a team to have an opponent without their number one quarterback, number one running back, number one wide receiver, and a very bad backup

left guard and still give up the performance that they did by the Saints on offense. Yeah, at moments, especially early on in the game, it seemed like Andy Dalton really wasn't there. But as the game went on, he started to get more into it. And I think that was helped, especially by their run game, getting as many yards as they did get. They had plenty of opportunities, plenty of times where they would get big chunks of yards on the ground, just basically running it right at the Vikings. And that opened up things in the pass game. They specifically targeted Caleb Evans when he had to come in for to hurt Cam Dantzler at one point. Cam Dantzler did make a good play at the end of the game. Patrick Peterson said maybe this is probably Dantzler's best game that he's had while Peterson's been here, based off some of the things that he had to do in that game.

But yeah, it seems like this defense, as you mentioned, is just going to keep giving up yards. It's the classic bend it, but don't break. And they just have to hope they don't break more than, more than they bend at this point. And it seems like they were going to give up yards to Andy Dalton, whether it was going to be, whether he was going to be on or not, because at the beginning of the game,

Andy Dalton wasn't there and it wasn't a good looking Saints offense. They gave the ball away quite easily early on, but as that game built on, Andy Dalton wasn't there and it wasn't a good looking Saints offense. They gave the ball away quite easily early on. But as that game built on, Andy Dalton got more comfortable and he got more into the game and was allowed that because of the way this defense plays, it seems like. I think part of that was my issue is the Ben, I'm Ben don't break makes a lot of sense when you're playing Aaron Rodgers and when you're playing Jalen Hurts, when you're playing these good quarterbacks that you know are going to get yards on you that are going to get theirs and you just are trying to limit them from making the big plays that you know they can make. When it's Andy Dalton out there and it's Marquez Calloway and

it's Chris Olave and it's Jawan Johnson and it's Adam Troutman and like these are the guys that they're throwing to then I wonder why are you still playing bend don't break why are you not trying to pressure why can't you show that you're like just breaking that like just just break that offense don't let them like they really shouldn't be able to break you based on the personnel that they're trotting out there why is it still a bend don't break when it's that type of team with that type of deficiency in talent I think it works out eventually but allowing 25 points to this um this Saints team that's like one of the highest amounts they've scored all season they've struggled on offense

they've struggled uh a bunch and so I don't I I guess I'm pushing back a little bit on the well the bend don't break kind of worked again. It's like against this offense, the bend, don't break probably should be like 10 points. You're allowing not 25. It's just not a talent, a talented offense at that point. And so I don't know if that shows steam or if that continues to show that they may not have the horses on the defense. But it it just wasn't super encouraging. Right. And a lot of the bend don't break really depends on whether you bend or break in the biggest situations. And today they broke most of the time.

I mean, they gave up nearly a game tying drive at the end. They did give up a go ahead drive where of course it took an incredible field goal from 60 yards to make it, but still they allowed them to move the ball quite a bit in the biggest situations, three for three in the red zone. And then you know, five for 11, if you add third and fourth downs together, that's, that's not going to cut it. If you're going to play that type of defense Jonathan is being told that he has to move from his position in the press box there. So I want you, Jonathan, real quick, unless you're about to get arrested, just to give your sort of final thoughts on Vikings in London, the experience as a whole.

The experience as a whole was a good one. I mean, they get the win. They don't have to, as Patrick Peterson made aware, they don't have to take the eight-hour plane flight home on a loss or going into overtime once again in a Kurt Cousins-Andy Dalton matchup here in London. I swear there's going to be a tie. I thought when he lined up, I was like, oh no, a tie. But yeah, seeing this atmosphere, being here at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, which is just a massive, massive stadium. It was cool to be here and it was good that they got the win. I mean, it didn't look pretty, but now they're three and one. They're going into the next four games of the season and they come home and they'll

play the Bears. So there should be another easy opponent, maybe go four and one after the first five games, which would be a remarkable turnaround from last season. Whether it looks good or not, it's still very much up for debate. But at this point, they're three and one. That's good enough for them. It feels like they know they have stuff to work on. So plenty to work on, but a good three in one start to the season. Do you have fun, Jonathan?

It was awesome. I appreciate you sending me. It was fun. I see a double doink in real life. I know, I know a sort of a soccer-esque thing to happen. Yes. The ball being coming down to a kick,

which I've heard they like over there. So anyway, well, thanks for all of your work going over and covering. I'm glad you had a good time and we will talk when you are back stateside. Thank you, Jonathan. All right. Appreciate it, guys. Have a good one.

See you, Jonathan. So we'll continue our conversation here, Paul, because I just keep like, and maybe people can tell, I just keep sort of going back and forth between like, there's the natural part of me that's going to matter in the longterm of the season. I'm not really sure, but there, there is a couple of things that I would say, maybe we could talk about it through that lens of like, what's going to matter and what's not,

because I don't know that the bears are going to make this stuff matter. If Miami is playing a Teddy Bridgewater, I don't know if they're going to make it matter. I don't know if Arizona is going to make it matter. I don't know if Arizona is going to make it matter. And then you're off to the races kind of, and you do face some tougher teams later on, but it's not like a murderer's row. It's like Buffalo's good.

Dallas is probably going to be pretty good. But aside from that, no one is super scary. There's a lot of teams that are like the Saints that are on their schedule. So I want to look at it through that lens. But I also want to say that Adam Thielen got a little dinged up today. That's a concern because when he's been dinged up and he's not the same guy or he's not in the lineup, that is when Cousins really struggles. And I wonder if there was some correlation there after Thielen gets banged up. And I think it was

on the second drive. And then all of a sudden it kind of comes to a, to a screeching halt. And with Delvin cook too, my question, I guess, and this might be a tough challenge for Kevin O'Connell. Are you going to keep doing that? Because he had a nice run at the end when they sort of caught the saints by surprise, but the banged up Delvin cook is probably not as good as Alexander Madison. Madison gets the ball on that first drive, has a great run. And wow, Christian Derrissaw with the block on that play has a great run, goes into the end zone. And they didn't really go back to Alexander Madison very much. And I think that the star power of Delvin Cook demands that Delvin Cook is the guy who's

getting the ball all the time and he's there. But I think you might want to see if Kenny Wong will wants to touch the football or, or mix in Madison a little bit more because this injury that Cook has, it does, it doesn't just disappear. And he had that big game against Pittsburgh last year, but the rest of the season, when he was playing with that shoulder injury was a struggle, the same thing in 2019, when he had that injury. And I just looked at it today and thought I give the saints

credit for blowing up some of those runs, but I don't think it's there the same way it was before. That's going to be a challenge. So those guys being banged up and then the confusion, will that go away eventually or not? Like, I think that these things are kind of a little bit hard to project, but I don't think that there's an obvious, just push this switch, Kevin O'Connell and offense. I think it's going to be a lot of hot and cold, just like it has been. Yeah. And I think on your running back point, you really don't have to look much further than the other team that they were playing today. Alvin Kamara was out. Obviously they miss Alvin Kamara but Mark Ingram had decent runs when he was in there Latavius Murray had decent runs when he was in there Mark

Ingram was catching balls obviously you're slightly depleted because you don't have that extraordinary talent of Alvin Kamara out but the Saints didn't lose this game because they failed to run the ball they ran the ball much more effectively than the Vikings did and we've seen proven over time and time when Cook's out there but dinged up up, he's just less effective. And so it might've been the blocking today. It could have been Cook, but either way, running game didn't look great. And so why don't you rest him and just get him more healthy when, especially when you have the luxury of having an Alexander Madison, who I think most teams believe could be a starter and next year he probably goes out and gets starter money to be a starter somewhere like that's a luxury take

advantage of the luxuries that you have and speaking on the broader offensive points I think I I don't think the talent is in question I don't think we've ever really questioned the talent but it's can all of them stay healthy which were again seeing chinks in the armor just a little bit here and there. And that can have just kind of slow, steady effects on the effectiveness of this offense over the course of a season. But to be honest, I think where I see more long-term issues is the defense for me, just in terms of that. I don't feel like they have the personnel or the offense, I feel like has the personnel to correct. So the offense I'm less worried about, I think in danger of making a Rams comparison, which can incite lots of different thoughts of, of what that could mean. But I mean, last year around the middle of the season, the Rams offense was as good as broke.

Like they were not playing well. Stafford did not look good good the Rams offense didn't look good and obviously they're able to turn that around and make a Super Bowl run so we're four weeks into the season this the way the team looks now isn't the way the team's going to look in week 17 in week 18 if they make the playoffs like this it's it's going to look a lot different and they have a lot of time to change you know the red zone ineffectiveness They're seven for 15 and converting a red zone trips into touchdowns this year. That's I think like 24th in the NFL. So that's not very good, but they have time. Like there's time to figure these things out. And I think eventually most teams do,

especially if they have the personnel to be able to figure these things out and the offensive line, although it has sputtered in certain scenarios continues to look like it's improving. Justin Jefferson, again, shows today that he can continue to be a really good player. Irv Smith is still a solid tight end. So I think when you have the personnel and you're winning these games and you're not in the, we don't have any margin for error like they would have been, I give a little bit more leniency to the offense, even though it has been by far a disappointing unit and probably more disappointing than expectation than the defense has. But I just think they do

have time. And given the fact that they don't have a hard schedule and they've already built in some cushion for themselves, the offense has time to figure things out. It's just whether or not they do it. But I think they certainly have the personnel, the capabilities, and O'Connell seems like a smart enough and good enough coach and a schematic guy to be able to figure those things out. Right. And this is where I can't decide where to land because in one way, I think that if Thielen is banged up through the season and he's trying to fight through a leg injury when already the explosiveness isn't there the same way it was before. Now he has eight catches today, but at only nine yards per catch.

And that's kind of what he's been for the last two years is an underneath possession wide receiver. Does that get better? I don't know that it does. Does Delvin Cook get better? Maybe as he gets healthier, but will he get healthier if he continues to play all the time and run the ball 20 times? I was very surprised.

And this is the thing about when we talk about Zimmer, I mean, he was trending today because everyone's like, Oh, you kick the field, go on fourth and one, like, Oh, they were running on second down and Delvin cook injured ends up with 20 carries. Like don't make the same mistakes as your predecessor, Kevin O'Connell. And this is where I think that they can improve some things. If they start mixing some running backs in there, I don't know why Kenny Wong Wu has not been on the field. I mean, you saw even today in his kick return, like, yeah, man, that dude, that dude is, is flames when he's got the ball in his hands.

And yet he has not taken an offensive snap so far. This would have been the game to so far. This would have been the game to do that. It would have been the game to limit Delvin cook a little bit. And yet they just kept sort of pushing the Delvin cook button, even in situations where it just seemed like O'Connell was saying, I don't really feel comfortable with the way Kirk is looking out there and throwing the ball. So handoff, which is what they've always done. So will that change? Will that improve? I think there will be games where they play defenses that are flat out bad and they just crush them. I mean, that's certainly going to be the case. I think when they go against

Arizona, who has a horrendous defense, that one's got shootout written all over it. So there will be opportunities as they go forward, but what can really change? I'm not sure. And when O'Connell comes out running the ball and running the bootlegs, it almost is a little bit of a white flag. Like, yeah, that's kind of what you have to do here. Uh, which doesn't mean you can't win with it because they have one with it on the defensive side. And this is where I want to agree with you. It's like, we all know what is going to happen offensively. There's going to be some days where we go like, wow, they really smashed that team's face in on offense.

And other times where half the game we're going, what's going on over there? And the other half, they look good or come through at the end or something like that. The defense, Harrison Smith gets banged up at the end of the game, which almost, I mean, my gosh, they were this close to the funniest possible outcome, just the most Vikings-y outcome, which would be the clock was probably going to run out, and instead Harrison Smith ends up getting hurt.

And also Chris Alave, he gets one more foot in bounds. They're probably making that field goal. So you talk about those razor thin margins and it does feel like this one was there to be won or lost by both teams. But if Harrison Smith has any sort of nagging injury and he's coming off of a concussion, now you're asking Josh Metellus to play game after game after game, potentially if there's any serious injury from Harrison Smith. And you saw it the minute that Cam Dantzler got banged up they were like boop let's throw it to Caleb Evans Andrew Booth

Jr. was doubtful for today then eventually ruled out he didn't play so they still feel like they're sort of skating on the razor's edge here and how they improve these things or how they get better I don't know Zedarius Smith is banged up and played a great game from what I could tell, but already banged up. And as the season goes along and those injuries start to pile up, what are their answers? And their answer is probably going to have to be at times, when you look at that schedule going forward,

we'll see if Tua's back in Miami. I kind of hope he's not. By the time the Vikings play for his own personal health. And like, there's a whole investigation into the Dolphins at this point, they fired their independent neurology guy, which is just a whole other side rant. But when I would just say, believe your own eyes when the NFL tells you not to, that's just always like the people who are saying, well, and I don't mean to go off on this, but it's just like, well, you know, the expert said that he was cleared and it's like, oh yeah, first day on earth here watching the NFL.

But anyway, so the point just being that I think it's possible that we're seeing Teddy Bridgewater at that point, but that still has shootout potential with their wide receivers. So as you get into the second half of the season, what they have to have come together is the offense to be in a place where if Kyler Murray is lighting up your defense and DeAndre Hopkins will be back by then. And Dak Prescott will be back by then. And I think that Dallas has shown that they're maybe a stronger roster than some people gave them credit for after losing Amari Cooper, Buffalo in Buffalo. Like these are, these are shootout games. You're likely going to have to win because I don't see a path.

And I get it when people say, Oh, what is that Donatello doing? It's a, you know, Donatello's loss or whatever. It's like, no,

I think this is just who they're going to have to be. And when Kendrick's got hurt today, again, you go, Whoa, yeah, let's Troy die. And if Kendrick's is right like this just

exists for a lot of different positions on that defense and we saw it he gets banged up and like right away the Saints are moving the football and and that's what they're going to have to live with and I don't know that there's an answer if this Saints team can have as much success on offense as they did in the second half of the game against the Vikings. I don't know who they're going to stop outside of the bears. And that's just, and that's just the universe you're going to have to live in, which could be very entertaining. I mean, right, like right now we are at what one game that was not entertaining in Philadelphia and still kind of had its moments where they might be able to come back barn burners. You're kind of in

for that this year, I think. Yeah. And if I can make another just easy kind of had its moments where they might be able to come back. Barn burners. You're kind of in for that this year, I think. Yeah. And if I can make another just easy kind of comparison to where the Saints are at, like entering this game per PFFs, Ben Brown, I think the Saints based on like war that they've lost with injuries were like the third most injured team already so far this year. And the Vikings replacement. Yeah. Wins above replacement.

Sorry. And the Vikings were the fourth healthiest. So a disparity there. And you see that playing out when it's Pete Werner playing in coverage and you just see the Vikings targeting him over and over again because they have injuries and they suddenly are finding matchups like that. And so that's the type of stuff when, if Eric Hendricks is down for a game or two and it is Dye, like you're going to expect offenses to start targeting him. If when you see a Caleb Evans out there, offenses are probably just kind of what happens and it will happen to the Vikings at some point during the season it pretty

much happens to every team they're going to have a game where a lot of their guys are hurt and we'll see how they respond but I think that again if we want to go back to the optimistic side is why it's so important that they won this game however they won this game because it just again becomes a math problem they have three wins they're likely going to rack up continually going to have more and in an NFC with an extra playoff seed and teams that are floundering and just a lot of teams that are mediocre that becomes really really important so I think the Vikings may start be starting to show some of the cracks in the foundation if guys get hurt but I think the point is every team has some significant cracks in their foundation that

are already being exposed or can very easily be exposed if one or two things goes wrong. So I don't think the Vikings are alone in that situation at all. They're not in the same division conference as the Bills, the Chiefs, the Ravens, the Chargers. They don't have to deal with teams like that. And so that will continue to be a blessing for them. But I also think it's just continue. It's a continuous thing that you have to look at and say, yes, just because they beat the

Saints, who felt like almost a non-existent NFL team at times, the guys that they were trotting out. Like if you have aspirations of making a deep playoff run, you have to look at the team critically and say when teams are playing all their best players and do have things rolling on all cylinders, how did the Vikings stack up? And I think there clearly is still room for improvement there. Luckily for them, it's going to be a while before they have to do that. So they have plenty of time to figure it out. At a lot of moments in the past, I felt like I did have answers where it was like, Hey Zimmer,

how about you manage a clock? Right. And, and that was certainly going through my mind a little bit today with O'Connell or Hey Zimmer, why don't you lean into Kirk? But you may have missed the window to lean into Kirk based on just his age and so forth.

I'm, I'm not like trying to pound with this drum. It just looks weird. Um, but I mean, Dalton outplayed him today and golf may have outplayed him last week. Those are two quarterbacks that shouldn't be outplaying Kirk cousins. And, and this sort of speaks to the quality of the wins that I think both of those guys had higher ESPN QBRs then, uh, which is a one to a hundred scale that kind of tries to factor in how you really played and whether you were deserving of the win. And in both of those games, QBR came back saying like,

not really like it's sort of the basic way to describe it is like, what percentage chance did you give your team to win based on the way the quarterback played? And I think both of the last two games have been under 50% for cousins. And yet they came away with wins, um, which sort of says, if this happens week after week, that you won't come away with wins all the time. And I also think that the other team is probably not going to get 10 penalties every game. I mean, this is another point to the saints that this, I mean, this should have been like 35 to 10. I think that's where the frustration is, right. Is I am, I am like going to stay in this place where I say it's London. It's weird.

It's hard. And like, I expected it to be that way, but when the other team should have been blown out with the way they played the number of penalties, the turnovers, uh, and yet you allowed them to stay in that game and come that close to tie it. We have to say like, what? But, um, we should, we should 50, 50 calls that went the vikings way the pass interference the legal hands to the face on jefferson both those were on a touchdown drive that got them to the one that got them to score that made the difference so some of those things just either aren't going to get

called or that feeling one could have even been called on him like every once in a while those things are going to go the opposite direction right you're down 22 19 and that throw right there goes incomplete if they don't flag anything and they say that both guys were just fighting each other down the field, which we see all the time when there's hands on with both offense and defense, I mean, they probably just lose the game. And then we're sitting here talking like, wow, I cannot believe you lost that game. So I think that people can probably hear the conflict generally in my voice. If I think this, if it's a normal game, we're really talking about being unimpressed by this.

But I will say, let's end it on this. You want to talk about being impressed? Viking special teams is just throwing heaters. I mean, a fake punt to Jalen Naylor where Ryan Wright threw the hardest pass of the day compared to the quarterbacks. And Ryan Wright's punts down inside the 20. Greg Joseph did mix the extra point, but made the key field goal to go ahead at the end of the game. I mean, just like Matt Daniels' special teams,

they got a big punt return, they got a big kick return, and they pinned New Orleans numerous times. Like we have been saying for a while that Matt Daniels really knows what he's doing. They're a special teams coach. And I think maybe, you know, there's a natural when a guy's a good interview to be like, Oh yeah, look at this. But their special teams is the best that they've had at least so far, maybe since I've covered the team. And it's the small things too. It's when they're kicking off, they're kicking off and making them, the opponents catch the ball at like the two yard line and have to run the ball out. And more often than not, they're getting stopped at like the 20 instead of just kicking it over for a touchback. And then I'm getting it at the 25. Those are those

very small, small details that might make a 60 yard or a 65 yard or maybe made a 55 yard or today a 60 yard or that then will let's misses. So it's just those small edges that you can pick up on special teams. And then if you can add in a fumble recovery in there every once in a while and you can add in a fake punt. Well, that that more the merrier, but they seem to be doing all the fundamentals. Correct. Sons one missed extra point. They they seem to be a well, a coherent unit. And, I mean, the Packers saw that last year in the playoffs. When you have bad special teams, it feels rudderless

because you just don't know how those things are going to go. And those things matter when there's tight margins and it's an elimination game. And the Vikings have seemed to figure that out at the very least. And Matt Daniels was talking his talk preseason about Greg Joseph. He's been good and seems to have gotten that unit into shape. So what we have here is a three and one football team with an opportunity to beat the Bears and the Dolphins if they don't have Tua. And even if they do have Tua, I would still be very concerned about what he was going to look like.

I think the Dolphins are a better team than the Vikings and a legitimate contender, but you're still talking about a backup quarterback playing there, potentially, or a banged-up quarterback playing there. I mean, this gives them a chance to win these next two games, or even one out of two, and go to the break saying, we're a good football team, and we've got a chance in the second half to really make some noise. And that's also when you get that opportunity to make adjustments, to get healthy, which they had planned out that that's the reason they're playing this week against the bears and

didn't take their bi-week is that they wanted to push their bi-week back by two weeks to be more in the middle of the season to set them up for that stretch run. So I think that, you know, maybe just around the team in general, there are logical things that have been done, including not playing players in the preseason and so forth that like we're far enough out by the way now to say, I don't think it was the preseason that's caused the offensive issues. It's just, this is a Kirk cousins led offense. There's going to be a spectacular throw to Justin Jefferson that gets you 30 yards.

And then there's going to be a three yard throw on fourth or on third and 10. Like this is just always who he's been sort of boom or bust with him. Always. It will remain that way, but they have an opportunity here to have a very good season to be a playoff team and, and to be a playoff team and, and to be a team that's a little scary because of their number one wide receiver. If they go into the playoffs,

like that's the path that they've laid out for themselves and they don't have to apologize for that, but they do have to play better than this. Or we're going to end up with a lot of weeks where we go, oh, you know, they just got that bad break at the end because these things do even out over a season. So great out, uh, over a

season. So great stuff, Paul, glad you could do it. Uh, we wish Jonathan a flight back, assuming that he didn't get tased or something. Um, because he was hanging out in the press box too long. So, uh, good stuff. And, uh, you and I will talk again soon.