Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jaren Hall played the whole final preseason game

Episode Date: August 26, 2023

Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press joins Matthew Coller in the US Bank Stadium press box to talk about takeaways from the Vikings' preseason game against the Arizona Cardinals and how Jaren Hall handled his first preseason start. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome into the post-game pre-season. Action is finally over, thank God, after watching that football game. The Vikings lost, so obviously Dane Mizutani, the Pioneer Press, and I are very upset. And we are going to go play-by-play, breaking down every reason that the Vikings did not come away with the win today. That will be the entire podcast, come away with the win today. That will be the entire podcast and I will accept nothing else. Uh, no, I'm, I'm obviously kidding, but the, the level of seriousness that this was taken with by both teams, uh, maybe a one and a half out of 10, I would say. And I know that's like an insult to the players who played, but the team

went out of their way not to put anybody on the field that might play in the regular season. But I do have a take to start off. I did come away with an opinion here, Dane, and that is Jalen Rager playing today. A pretty clear sign that Brandon Powell has won that already fire everyone. I love that. Love that. We're live on YouTube. So of course, your comments are very much welcome and we'll be reading them throughout the show our friend chuck aoki is here uh and i think dane is very upset about jordan tuomo not getting a chance to play so that is that was crushing for you but no that jalen regger i think is the actual takeaway from this game

brandon powell stood on the sideline with a ball cap on, which would indicate that he's on the team. And Jalen Rager playing is, hey, other NFL teams, Jalen Rager is playing. Do you want Jalen Rager? That's how I interpreted that. Did you? Yeah, I agree. I think we talked all camp about how Brandon Powell, Jalen Rager, basically the same player as far as what they're going to bring to the team this year. So it always felt like Brandon Powell and Jalen Rager were fighting for one roster spot. Maybe they still are. Maybe they're not because Jalen Naylor still can't get on the field and Tristan Jackson, maybe you could sneak him onto a practice squad. So there's still a chance that Tuesday rolls around and Rager's on

the team, but you're right when you say today was the most obvious indication that Brandon Powell is making the team. And it was trending towards that. You know, he's been the punt returner, the one getting the most of the reps in practice. He got all the reps in the game last week against Tennessee with KJ Osborne going down this week in practice, Brandon Powell was running with the one. So all of this is, it makes sense when, when we look at kind of the whole picture that we've seen so far. But the fact that he is on the sideline in a ball cap and in rigors on the field with Jaron Hall as his quarterback,

yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear who made the team. So the big question is, where is Jalen Naylor in returning to this team? Because every time we talk to Kevin O'Connell about Jalen Naylor in returning to this team because every time we talk to Kevin O'Connell about Jalen Naylor it is very clear that he likes himself some Jalen Naylor and that they want him on this team and that he could potentially have a role as maybe a rotational player from time to time he's clearly good as a deep threat from what we saw from his handful of reps last year and what we saw from him in the spring in OTAs and minicamp, but he has had one practice. But then I see Rager out here and I, I mean, maybe they could argue

that there's just a numbers game. Remember last year, BC Johnson was going to make the team and he had to play and then tore his ACL in the final preseason game for all of you who remember all preseason games, but that did happen and he was going to be on the club. So maybe it's a numbers game because Thayer Thomas got hurt. And then it was like Blake pro and nobody else. And Tristan Jackson, it could have been that they just need that number of receivers. And he played for like the first half, but it seemed to me when you have Powell on the sideline, like that's maybe more telling that he would be ahead and they don't want Brandon Powell to get hurt because he's locked into a role. So they could keep Rager if they don't feel like Naylor is that close or that he could come in and play. But also I think from

what we've seen for Brandon Powell, he's just a better receiver than, than Jalen Rager. Jalen Rager is essentially just a punt returner. And I didn't see anything during camp that made me think, Oh wow, he's taken some huge step as a wide receiver. And so I think that that was an indicator of where things stand with the receiver room. But do you think they keep five? Do they keep six? Tristan Jackson had a couple of nice plays. He's had a really good training camp, but you could also see if they decided to cut Tristan Jackson, like who's coming in here and taking him away from you. And even if they do, you know, it's not a travesty when you have the receivers you have. I feel like he's going to be back on the practice squad and he's, he's going to be a new thing that hadn't existed in the NFL

before, which is the career practice squad guy. I think that's where a Tristan Jackson is going to be, but they still do have kind of a five versus six argument to make here. Yeah. I think you probably land at six because Jalen Naylor basically hasn't had any training camp to get the offense under his belt. You know, the reps that are, that are also important for a guy entering year two of his NFL career. I think that's why you end with six. And I think Rieger is probably your fifth or sixth, I guess, whichever way you want to look at it. If Naylor and Rieger are making the team,

that's your six right there. Cause we know Powell is making the team based on what we saw today. Tristan Jackson. He's a fun story. He shows up every single day in practice and makes at least one play that makes you say, wow, but he's like, you know, you could probably, like you said, shows up every single day in practice and makes at least one play that makes you say wow but he's like you know you could probably like you said get him onto your practice squad pretty

easily and if you don't I don't think it's something where in three years he's lighting the league on fire and you're saying remember when they cut Tristan Jackson I think he's a really good player I just think he's probably someone who has limitations to his game and those limitations are going to make him, like you said, maybe just a practice squad player for life with the opportunity here and there to get called up, you know, play in a couple of games, but more, you know, by and large, be that guy who's just kind of sitting on the practice squad. I think he would have had to have had a victor cruz preseason breakout if everybody remembers that reference where victor cruz was wearing some weird number and rex ryan on hard knocks was like who the heck is that guy

and then he becomes a really good receiver in the league we didn't see that and opportunities are limited but i agree that as as well as he has done it's probably an Alexander Holland situation where we're talking it up. And, okay, he's doing a really good job. And he did get some reps with the ones out of necessity. But that's probably the odd man out so they can keep people in other spots and go with five. Let's talk about Jaron Hall, though. And then we'll get into some Trey Lance because yesterday I logged off of YouTube live from Vegas and got in the car. And those of you who listen on the podcast feed would know this got in the car to go to the

airport. And then that's when the trade dropped. And then from the airport, I recorded on my phone with all the things in the background, like boarding for Minneapolis, you know, like going on to get a quick take in. So we will talk about about that but let's break down a little bit of jaron hall and uh hatfield barbecue here says uh thought hall looked pretty good all things considered showed some great pocket movement and awareness your breakdown dane of jaron hall today we saw some good we saw some good, we saw some bad, but I think the most important thing is we saw Jaron Hall for 60 minutes. And this is a guy who I think Kevin O'Connell said it best in the postgame press conference. He's so far down the depth chart because he's obviously behind Kirk Cousins. He's obviously behind Nick Mullins, like definitively behind Nick Mullins, that you don't get a lot of situational work in practice when you are the third quarterback,

like the perma third quarterback. So when you're seeing these situationals, these two minute drills in practice, these four minute drills in practice, all those reps are going to Kirk Cousins and Nick Mullins. So today was great for Jaron Hall because he got to get those reps against an opponent, like an opposing team. Yeah, the first end of the first half, he, he runs the two minute drill. I thought he looked good in it. He made maybe his best throw of the day when he climbed the pocket and found break Blake pro along the sideline. I thought that was a, you know,

a good thing for him to get under his belt end of the game too. You know, he leads the Vikings not down the field. Cause they ended up settling for a 54 yard field goal that, that Greg Joseph pushes wide, right. But that that's an important situation to be in. And it's one that you can try and simulate it in practice. But if you're simulating in a practice, it's probably for Kirk cousins, probably for Nick Mullins. It's not for Jaron Hall. So today was big for him. My biggest takeaway is just like the experience is probably going to go a

long way for him. He still has a long ways to go. That's pretty clear. He got sacked six times today. I would say half those sacks were just because he can't get, he's not getting rid of the ball quick enough. But then we have to remember, he's a kid who didn't really play in anything that even resembled the pro style offense at BYU. And now he's finally getting that first taste of it. So there are some good things. I think if we look at where he was in the preseason opener against the Seahawks to where he is now in the preseason finale against the Cardinals, he's grown. And then that's a big thing. I agree. I think he was much better today. And a big part of that is just there's a rhythm to

how things should work. Like you go to the huddle, you get the play in, you go to the line of scrimmage, you get the calls out, you snap the ball. Like there's just a, a sort of pace that he was way off in the first preseason game where you're like, okay, we definitely know that you're a first timer playing in any sort of NFL action that he looked much more confident and he looked like they were playing with pace better. And legitimately made two three excellent throws today the one you mentioned was by far the most impressive there was a collapsing pocket stepped up found blake prole made an accurate throw there was one that he got robbed of along the sideline trish and jackson made a really good catch but i thought it was a very accurate throw toward the sideline as well that was like this far away from being a big play for him. I would have been an

amazing play at the end of the game. Had he not been a little bit too far, maybe like six feet past the line of scrimmage. But I think you saw some of the accuracy, some of the mobility and Kevin O'Connell mentioned after the game, just that he was pairing a little bit more his athleticism with playing the position. And this is an effect that happens all the time. Like if you go look up a Josh McCown and his stats from the combine, it's one of the best athletes that has played quarterback in the last 20 years. And you'd think I was kidding because he never played like that. And I think with Jaron Hall, he showed some of that athleticism, but also when you get sacked that much and you scramble that

much, it says to me that you still have a ways to go. And when we're talking about an older quarterback at 25 as a rookie, how far can he go as a question, but as the team, you might be looking, let's find somebody who's Nick Mullins next year that is on his rookie contract as a fifth rounder. And I didn't think he did anything to make me go, Oh man, there's nothing there. You can't play this guy ever. He's awful. There was nothing like that. And we've seen that before in the past at times. But the big question is, do they keep three quarterbacks? I would say based on what Kevin O'Connell said today, where he seemed pretty excited about Jaron Hall and what he said before, I do think they're going to keep three quarterbacks. Actually, before today's game, we were talking about it and I was like, I don't know. I think they go to. And then after listening to him talk about Hall's performance today, like, okay, I think they're going three. Yeah. And I think I was on the train of they're going to keep two quarterbacks until earlier this week when Kevin O'Connell was asked about the new three quarterback rule or the emergency quarterback rule, which basically allows you to steal an extra roster spot if if both your quarterbacks go down the guy can get in but he has

to be on your 53 man roster Kevin O'Connell kind of broached that subject this week and it sounded like he was advocating for Jaron Hall being a part of the 53 but there was still that thing in the back of my mind maybe he's lying maybe he's he's, he's just tongue in cheek here. And then you hear him today, the way he talked about Jaron Hall. He's basically said, when you draft a guy like that, you want to keep him around and develop him. I think part of that development is not cutting him. So I think he's sticking around.

It obviously takes a roster spot away from another position group. And it does sound like the Vikings are going to have some pretty difficult decisions on Tuesday. But I don't think the quarterback is going to be one of them. I think they're keeping three. I think Hall's made the team. Yeah. The exact quote was,

I would definitely, definitely like to keep him around is what Kevin O'Connell said. So it doesn't leave a whole lot of ambiguity there, but it doesn't say I would definitely like to keep him around on the 53. And then they're going to have to ask the question, would someone pick up Jaron Hall? If you tried to sneak him to the practice squad, I have got to think based on what we saw today,

the answer is still no, that if you are going to steal somebody else's quarterback, you are going to steal a high upside guy, a Jordan to Amo who didn't get a chance to play. Sorry, Jordan. He does have a, he's a bigo who didn't get a chance to play. Sorry, Jordan. Uh, he does have a, he's a big guy. He's got a huge arm. So if you were looking at somebody that you were going to

take away from another team and make your number three quarterback, I don't know that it's a smaller quarterback whose thing is kind of accuracy and execution and a little bit of mobility. I think it's probably someone with a huge arm. They could try to sneak him through, but I do wonder if Kevin O'Connell is even slightly worried that someone else liked him. And if they lose him is sort of sending that message a little bit like, don't lose my guy. If you're going to cut him, don't lose my guy. Um, so I, I don't know. I were convinced that they keep him now at this point. Cause I do think there is that slight argument of who's going to pick him up and make him their backup.

Yeah. I, the answer is probably no one. Like I think if they wanted to try and sneak Jaron Hall onto the practice squad, they could, I just think that Kevin O'Connell is probably in like the whole standing on the table,

fighting for my guy thing. I think that's kind of a thing of the past. I think right now, like there's pretty much everyone's on the same page knows you know there's probably a couple people that maybe position coaches go to bat for but kevin o'connell's a head coach so you know he's not if he wants jaron hall on the team and it sounds like he does um i think he's sticking around and and i get it um you know like you could probably sneak him out of the practice squad but i think he's sticking around and I get it. You know, like you could probably sneak him out of the practice squad,

but I think there's something there that they want to develop. And maybe part of that is confidence. I think cutting a guy, even if it's with the understanding, look, we're just doing this for numbers. I think that might play a role. Kevin O'Connell was a number three quarterback himself in his career. He mentioned that earlier this week. There are a lot of reasons I think that the vikings are going to keep him and a lot of those reasons for me stem

from what we've heard the head coach say over the past three or four days well and i like the rule in general to have that third quarterback be active on game day i mean for one because no one wants to see a running back have to play quarterback in the emergency scenario which i'm sure the vikings will never run into where they have to play three quarterbacks. That's happened a few times to me on Madden where the opposing team, but I've only seen it. That's what's crazy about that NFC championship is I feel like that's one of the only times I've ever seen it in my life where two quarterbacks actually get hurt in the same game. And, but I do think also coaches are very diligent when it comes to worrying about every possible scenario.

And when you identify him and you draft him as Kevin O'Connell, then I think you want a chance to work with him more. And what he showed today is some competency. And if you're looking for Nick Mullins like competency with a little more athleticism, then like that might be what you get out of Jaron Hall. And then O'Connell can feel good that he drafted and developed. But the one thing we've never heard or found out, and I think we tried to ask this when they were first hired is, well, who has the final say? And we don't know the answer to that, whether it's Kweisi Adafomensa or Kevin O'Connell. And I think there's a schism on the way over Jaron Hall. I think this is very obvious that no the the organization the foundation

of the vikings will be cracked because of this um collaboration caller that's no more collaboration it's all it's all collaboration everything is fine and in vikings land somebody has a final say and they have to i but i don't know who it is uh sean says uh love the sack by jay ward can he do it consistently i I think with someone like Jay Ward, what you're looking for is he's a guy that played multiple positions in college, which makes it sound like it'll be easier for him to find a spot in the NFL. But I think it's actually a little harder on defense because then you have to find that spot in the NFL. There's like five guys that I can ever remember that actually played all over

the place and were capable of doing that. Normally in the NFL, you need your job and then you got to figure it out. But I think what we saw from Jay Ward was a guy who started off this training camp, like just a non-factor completely, and then got better and got better and then played very confidently. And what you're going to have there is a special teams player who makes the 53 and then they're going to hope to develop. And maybe there's a really unfortunate Lewis scene, first round draft pick safety point in here, but I don't know if I want to make it and make everybody upset, but safeties are that guy. Like we've seen that so many times where there's five game changing safeties in the league. Everybody else is Jay Ward. They start out on special teams. They develop, they get their

chance. They're Cam Bynum. They're Josh Metellus. They're Anthony Harris. They're Anderson Dayhoe. And I just feel like Ward is going to be that guy. But if Flores is going to be here for multiple years, which as of this moment, I would bet that he probably is. This is the type of player that fits for him. Somebody that can be in a lot of different positions and make some plays. And what I like to see from a guy is that they're physical and he was making some hard tackles and getting his nose in there. And yeah, I'll take that. Like, I don't know what he's going to be. He's a fourth round draft pick, but you know, once upon a time we kind of had the same feeling about Josh Metellus.

So we'll see, but I thought it was a really great game for him. Yeah, I liked just his physicality. I think the way he comes downhill, the blitz, that was very much Flores' scheme dialed up in a perfect situation. Flores has been playing a vanilla defense pretty much all preseason understandably they don't want to show anything and that was like a glimpse into what could happen I think there were seven guys at the line of scrimmage Jay Ward coming on blocked off the edge what I liked about Jay Ward and we talk about his physicality he finished through Clayton Thune on that like it wasn't just like uh let me wrap him up at the ankles and take him down. He had his shot.

He took it, forced a fumble, and the Vikings scored on the next play. That's a good thing for a guy to have that type of impact when he has his opportunity to make that play and he makes it. I don't want to harp on Louis Seen because he's injured right now. But Louis Seen had an opportunity to make that play last week. Granted, it wasn't a free rush blitz off the edge hitting the quarterback but it was a fill the hole and tackle tyree spears he missed it the play went for a touchdown jay ward today had his opportunity to take clayton toon's head off did it forced a fumble and the vikings scored on the very next play so i jay ward great game

he almost had a pick too it was a little high um he just he seems to consistently be around the ball he had a nice tackle on special teams and it landed him in the medical tent he told me after the game like he didn't even really want to go they just pulled him off which like i get it all players say that um but he clearly passed all the concussion protocol tests because he was back out there like three plays later so good game for him i think it's what would excite me most about that sack is that in the regular season, that will be Harrison Smith coming off the line, not Jay Ward. And that I think in and of itself should probably instill some fear in my schedule than the fall season. And let me tell you, it is tough to find myself a good and healthy meal. But that is why I have Factor, America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit that can help me fuel up with chef-prepared, dietician-approved, ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to my

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Andrew Booth Jr. was playing. That's not a good sign for either guy. Like I know that they both need reps, but these, these are the reps usually for guys who are putting their skills on tape for the other teams or for the XFL or for the USFL and to have a first round pick scheduled to play. It kind of tells you where he's at, but I think you actually make a really good point there that with Lewis scene, there's a hesitancy to him and we've seen him kind of go at sometimes when he has a clear shot at somebody, but when it's getting a little bit muddy and he's just got to

go and be violent and make a play that just has not been there. And it might be a factor of hurting himself, but I also think it was a factor last year as well. And when you see Jay Ward do it, you're like, yes, this is a violent game and that's how you have to play. But I was really impressed by the special teams tackle too, because he tracked him down. And so I think, you know, we're looking for anybody who kind of popped a little bit today to go through. And those are the guys that did from T Kubler. Would Mullins have looked that ugly in the fourth quarter with that offense? Oh yeah, of course everyone would. The thing, would Mullins have looked that ugly in the fourth quarter with that offense? Oh, yeah, of course. Everyone would. The thing about Nick Mullins, and we've been through this

with the Kyle Soder stuff. The thing about Nick Mullins is that doing a fourth, third preseason game, very similar to the old fourth preseason game. It's like filling out an online survey in complication. Playing in the actual NFL games is like taking a 400 level college course. That's the difference. And so Nick Mullins has played full season in real actually what one and a half full seasons of real NFL football with real NFL game plans. And he can operate an actual offense. Like if you had to put him in to run everything, to make all of the calls, he could do that where Jaron Hall, there's that question of like, how is it going out there? And he's, well, you know, coming along and so forth, like nowhere close.

And Jaron Hall needs a full off season. He needs a lot of study to understand because he's going from zero to a hundred in the NFL. And that's why you draft and try to develop somebody. Yeah. It just, it's not even fair to compare the two right now because they're just so different in, in terms of where they're at in their respective careers.

You mentioned it. Nick Mullins has played a season and a half as a starter. Darren Hall is coming in now, not having played in a pro style offense in college. So yeah, you give Darren Hall a break for maybe the way the game ended. I'm sure he would have liked for it to be different and would have liked to march the Vikings down the field and had get Greg Joseph kick a game winning

field goal. I will give him a bit of a pass though, to that, you know, T Kugler's point, the offense around him was meh. A lot of people would have struggled in that situation. I think Nick Mullins probably would have been a bit more prepared and better and probably wouldn't have thrown that pick. But you know, none of this matters at the end of the day, like Jaron Hall got reps.

He didn't get the win, but he got reps. And I think that's the most important thing. Well, I think that it was fair to judge his first half because they were playing some second and third. Yeah. Right.

But then by the time he gets to the second half. yes much if we're weighing it to me it's 90 judging his game on what happened in the first half and i thought he looked pretty darn good and then in the second half yeah it's a disaster because all these games are disasters but um that's just the point about if you had to play him in a real game it is so much more complex it's not just about which guy would look better in this situation. Let's see. Sean asks about Nick Muse. Does he look great?

Could he take Johnny Muntz's spot? Nick Muse, you know, could have been a Mr. Mankato, if not for Ivan Pace Jr. just swooping in right from the outset and taking over the Mr. Mankato battle. But Nick Muse could be that guy. Here's what I think about with tight ends. Josh Oliver's here as well. There's's like a deep tj hockinson point here which is nick music's pretty good they had ty conklin here he was pretty good they they they've developed tight ends or someone

else develops a tight end and you sign them and that might be part of it it's like here's nick muse looking pretty good i don't know know if he's mastered the position. I think he will be on the practice squad, and I'd be, again, surprised if anyone picked him up. I think he'll get released, put on the practice squad, and then be depth at that position, and they'll play Johnny Munt. Munt came from the Rams. They like him.

Wes Phillips likes him. They're going to have Johnny Munt probably on the team. Maybe that's your surprise cut of the year. I don't know. Would that be a surprise? Probably not. That's just my thought, though, is that Nick Muse is an example of a guy who can draft late, try to develop,

and maybe there's something there down the road. But I don't think he's going to be above Johnny Munt on the roster. No. And Kevin O'Connell loves Johnny Munt. Like, loves Johnny Munt. Made the made the comment i think a couple weeks ago that johnny munt is the best number three tight end in the league um he wasn't being sarcastic he really likes johnny munt he was trying to compliment him there um even if the compliment maybe didn't

come across in the way i think he had hoped it would um it was kind of just kind of a jokey punch line we used throughout camp but he loves johnny munt johnny munt got a lot of the work with TJ Hawkinson being MIA the past couple of weeks. So the Muntz place on the roster is totally set in stone. It doesn't mean that Nick Muse didn't have a really impressive training camp in preseason. I think he's got some ability there. And if I was Kweisi and really wanted to play hardball with TJ Hawkinson and his agent, I would say look at johnny month in practice he's doing all the things that tj does look at nick muse in these games he's producing with nick mullins and jaron

hall throwing him the ball like we like we traded a second round pick for you tj but we don't need you like i think there's probably some elements to that, which I think is what you were getting at. Tight end, you can get production from a wide array of players. TJ Hawkinson, obviously, is probably at the top of that list as far as what he can do. And he probably separates himself in a different way than a lot of those other players across the league. But, I mean, Nick Muse balling in preseason is a pretty good example that like if you're of a certain body type and have a certain skill set you can produce as a tight end in the nfl i think you're a terrible negotiator as gm you're just going to insult the guy news can do whatever you do what are you talking about uh i don't i think that i think that cj

hawkinson falls in the second tier of really good tight ends in the league who can do a lot more than your traditional tight ends that is worth so much and i think we know where the price is and where the price isn't right now the price isn't and will it get there eventually i don't know but i i love this is this is why i love like the preseason games and the reactions is we've gotten to maybe pick music and prove that they don't have to sign TJ Hawkinson. I love that. That's great.

That's why we're going to do this. I'm excited for this. This is so good. I know you want to leave. And I'm like, no, we're doing this like a two hour stream. What are you talking about?

Michael here asks, who do you think will be on the roster? Get a second contract from the Spielman draft regime, excluding the obvious starters, you know, obviously Jefferson, O'Neill, and Derrissaw. But what about Patrick Jones, DJ Wanham, Kim Bynum? And I guess I would say, Dane, that, you know, those are guys they're going to rely on this year to some extent.

DJ Wanham got a ton of reps with the first team, and he was clearly a part of a package as an outside linebacker where they moved Davenport inside. So Flores has seen enough of him to play him and combine him. I mean, this is a huge year for combine because he can keep those other guys at bay and make an argument for another contract if they don't like where it's going with Louis scene, or if they think, you know, maybe Josh Metellus fits in his right role. Um, but at the same time, like none of those guys are vital to the future. And it really speaks to the defensive drafting and how we got here with the defense before Kweisi Adafo Mensah took over, which is that they just missed on pick after pick after pick after pick where you just named some of their most productive picks of the spielman era and i feel like we talk almost every day on the show

about quesia da fomenta and we talk about it as well the general manager where this is going the whole direction but we do have to also remember with defenses you build over a number of years and the cupboard was bare with future players and that that kind of shows it. So I guess my answer is like, I guess they can prove that they need another contract, but I wouldn't guarantee any of those guys are here. Yeah. I don't think any of those three players, Bynum,

Wanham and Patrick Jones are foundational pieces in, in the way that, you know, like the other comments was Justin Jefferson, Christian Daris, Brian O'Neill, like none of those three that we mentioned bynum wanham jones if you let them go i don't think your defense falls off a

cliff where if you let the other guys go your offense does fall off a cliff so none of them are guaranteed right now but if say cam bynum comes out in balls this year like yeah he'll probably earn a second contract wanham probably the same way patrick jones i don't know I was actually surprised that he got last week off and was just like a guaranteed made the team um I thought he was more of a guy who not necessarily would be fighting for his roster life but would be playing in these third preseason games that probably is a bigger thing it speaks to Kevin O'Connell and the amount of players he wants to keep in bubble wrap is like dang near 50. So Zimmer would have played Patrick Jones. I absolutely guarantee. Yeah. So I don't,

I don't know if any of those three players are guaranteed another contract, but I think they can kind of play themselves into another contract this year if they're able to kind of show what they're worth on the field. Yeah. I think that Bynum and Wanham are trending in the right direction with Brian Flores' defense. If Fitz DJ want him to be an outside linebacker and line up way outside more than it does with his hand in the dirt. But I don't think it, yeah, I mean, I don't know. These are guys that are kind of filling spots at the moment.

What was the other one I was going to answer? Oh, about Luigi Villain. Luigi Villain shows up for these. Steven asked about Luigi Villain. There was a guy a couple of years ago and I am blanking on his name and maybe I'll have to look this up while I ask you about it to find this guy's name who every preseason would dominate, but he was in a couple of regular season games and just was a complete no-show. Villain is an interesting player just from like a depth perspective. But if they cut him, we were talking about the 53 during the game. It was like, what do you think about this guy?

I don't know. They cut him. What do you think about that guy? I don't know. They cut him. It was like, do I have, how many players am I up to? Like trying to do a live 53. I don't know.

And Villain is one of those because they have the two starters, the two backups. Do you need five? Do they like Benton Whitley? I don't, I don't know. I think that's one of their hard decisions is how many outside linebackers do you want to keep? Yeah, I think Luigi Villain probably makes it because of, like you said, he just performs in the preseason.

He shows up time and time again. He shows up. He shows up in practice as well. And you look at who he's competing against for that bubble spot andre carter missed two weeks of training camp clearly behind benton whitley luigi villain was ahead of him last year so he's still ahead of him this year so i think luigi villain awesome awesome name by the way like he leads he it's an elite name um but i think he's pretty locked into the 53.

And you know, I hear you finally found the name, right? Go ahead. Let's call her found the name. Eddie Yarbrough. Eddie Yarbrough. Another great name. Eddie Yarbrough. Eddie Yarbrough was incredible in the preseason.

And then there wasn't much there, but yeah, I don't want to spend too much time on Luigi Villain, but I think that he's, he's done a great job, but it seems like they, when you have an expanded practice squad, you can so much more just keep practice squad guys. And I don't know, maybe you're about to say something profound. So I'm sorry for distracting you with this, but Andre Carter, the second is another one where someone actually might pick him up, but I'm not sure if I'm worried about that. Like, I just, I just didn't see anything there. Nothing really popped in in like he was a guy who two years ago was projected to be a first round pick on an army and then he wasn't very good in his

year but heading into his draft then he went undrafted and the vikings gave him like 330 million dollars or 330 000 guaranteed 330 million would be crazy 330 000 guaranteed to sign as an undrafted free agent. So I think just that number value might intrigue teams because clearly there was some competition to get Andre Carter to Minnesota in the first place. But I do think you're right. I have Andre Carter on my 53 because they paid a lot to get him here. But if someone does pick him up, I don't know what you're getting because he hasn't really popped in preseason. I haven't really even noticed him.

And I feel like if you're a guy who is going to be an impact player who takes the league by storm, like I should at least notice you. I noticed Ivan Pace right away. I haven't noticed Andre Carter really much at all in camp and not really at all in the preseason games either. So I think there's a chance a team picks him up because he's long, he's rangy. He has a, you know, even if it was two years ago, a pedigree of maybe being a high draft pick. I think there are some teams out there that might want to get their hands on him and see if they can develop him. So I think that's why the Vikings keep him around, But you're right, probably, that if he were to get picked up, it's not like we would be sitting here missing the guy in five years. Yeah, I mean, he's also undrafted free agent for a reason,

even with the production. And I think that the draft universe gets fooled on certain guys with production from time to time. The Vikings had Curtis Weaver here. There were some Curtis Weaver believers. He went in the fifth round and got cut. Like there were people who had him as a high draft pick and he went in the fifth round and got cut and then ended up here and got cut again before camp

was even over. It happens pretty often. The thing with Andre Carter is, I mean, you ever see a freight train take off from the station? It's like, and here it comes. Okay. And now it's going, and now it's going and now it's up to speed. That's how he kind of looks to me. And in the NFL twitchiness is everything. And I just, I don't see him being strong enough to push around tackles like Daniel Hunter. And I don't see him twitchy enough to get around them or bendy enough. And there's really, and in my mind, I could be wrong, but it's an undrafted free agent. I think a lot of times they want a guy and they take a swing, but they also drafted Dwayne

McBride instead of drafting him. So, I mean, clearly there was, uh, it was one of those, oh, we learned the guy's name because they pay so much for him, but nothing ever happens after that. Uh, first name, last name. Wow. That's a great name. You could play a safety for TCU or something. Could Andrew Booth Jr. get traded since he's not a great fit for the Flores defense?

I don't think it's because he's not a great fit for the Flores defense. I think it's because he's not good. I mean, he has shown nothing in two years for anybody to think that he could be a starter to the point where Jawan Williams has overtaken him on the depth chart. And that guy signed a one year, $1 million contract. And there just hasn't been anything there to your point. No, I don't think you can trade players that are just buried on your depth chart. It's kind of like the greedy Williams thing where he got cut. It was like, well, should they sign greedy Williams? Or why did they cut greedy Williams? I mean, right. If, if you're calling, what are you looking for? You might, well, should they sign greedy Williams? Or why did they cut greedy Williams? I mean, right.

If, if you're calling, what are you looking for? You might as well just let it play out. What are you looking for? At least he knows the defense. Are you getting a seventh round pick just to get rid of him? Like, I don't, I just don't think that there's really any point to bothering to trade him. You could just sort of hang around, use them as a depth backup player and hope that your starting corners stay healthy. You're not going to be able to trade Andrew Booth Jr.

Isaiah Simmons, it was like the fifth pick in the or like the 11th pick in the draft or something for the Arizona Cardinals just got traded for a seventh round pick. Andrew Booth Jr. is so far from being an impact player in the league. I don't know if it'll ever happen. And there's no team out there. I do not think there's any team in the league that if the't know if it'll ever happen. And there's no team out there. I do not think there's any team in the league that if the Vikings called and said, hey, you want this guy, give us a sixth round pick for him. I think they would hang up. There's nothing that he's done to prove

that he has value, trade value at this point. And he just, every opportunity he had in the preseason, he just kind of either got torched or missed a tackle or it just, they just, it's not there. It's not there yet. It may never be there. He also can't stay healthy. And that's another issue too.

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Download GameTime today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Yeah. I mean, the fact that he was able to play a large portion of training camp is a victory for him, but to not be ahead of Juwan Williams is not a victory for Andrew Booth Jr. and his success. And those two top draft picks are going to be focused on a lot. But if Makai Blackman turns out, if a Caleb Evans turns out, it doesn't matter where you draft them. There's a little bit of a Trey Lance point buried in that might be a transition, which is it doesn't matter if they drafted Brock Purdy in the seventh

or Trey Lance with three firsts, if they have a quarterback that can get them to the Super Bowl. And yes, it's a horrible decision that blew up in their face. They also drafted Solomon Thomas over Patrick Mahomes, which I think is worth bringing up as well that no team and a bunch of teams did drafted guys. Leonard Fournette was picked by the Jacksonville Jaguars over Patrick Mahomes when Blake Bortles was their quarterback. So you can go through any team's history and be like, oh, wow, they messed up a draft pick.

A lot of people did. Not that the logic of picking a guy who had so many injuries was good, but at least booth was evaluated by a lot of people as a potentially good player. And that just hasn't played out. So let's talk about Trey Lance a little bit. You were into it and now it feels like you're less into it. Are you less into it because he was traded somewhere else or are you less into it because it's just like over or did you change your mind with the logic of like what he was traded for, who he was traded to? He wasn't even traded to a team that has clear and obvious future quarterback needs other than the whole DAC contract thing. But like what, like what, why did you come back from sort of hot takey, they should definitely do this, to less so? So I thought they should have done it initially because after Kevin O'Connell talked about keeping a third quarterback,

I thought if you can keep a 23-year-old Trey Lance over a 25-year-old Jaron Hall, I think you should just keep the 23-year-old Trey Lance over a 25 year old Jaron Hall, I think you should just keep the 23 year old Trey Lance with upside. But then me and you kind of got to talking off the air off the podcasting. And you made a really good point. Like, what are you hoping for if you trade for Trey Lance, right? Because you didn't do it in the spring. You didn't trade for Trey Lance when you could have then offloaded Kirk Cousins, maybe for a second-round pick this spring, brought in Trey Lance, given him the OTAs, the mandatory minicamp, the training camp, preseason,

see what you really have in him. Lights turned on. Sorry, the lights turned on and I made a face. I'm sorry. You were making a good point. I distracted you again. But if you had that whole ramp up to the regular season and then you gave trey lance the whole season to see what you had in him and then another season after that and then you get to decide if you want to pay him yeah that's way more palatable than now as the point you made to me was okay he sits behind kirk cousins all

all season you draft him he sits behind nickirk cousins all all season you draft him he sits behind nick mullins all season even maybe he's your third quarterback the guy who his biggest knock is he needs to play games comes here and doesn't play games and then you maybe move on from kirk cousins next year you play trey lance and if he's like even kind of good you just have to pay him so i get it like there's not enough time to figure out if he's good or if he isn't to make this worth a trade. I kind of just thought they were going to do it, though, because of what Kweisi has done in the past. And I've used the term and I wrote about it in the Pioneer Press. Kweisi likes to buy the dip. He is a former commodities trader on Wall Street. Buying the dip is a stock market term. You take this asset that has depreciated, you buy all of it, and you hope it spikes. He's done that. He did that with Jalen Rager. It didn't work out. He did that with Ross Blacklock. That guy was a second round pick by the Houston Texans in 2021. It didn't work out. So I thought if he's done willing to do this with Jalen Rager for a fifth round pick Ross Blacklock for a sixth round pick, I thought maybe he'd be willing to be in on Trey Lance for a fourth, a fifth round pick, especially considering they, they kicked around the idea this spring of bringing him in. So I thought there were reasons

to believe the Vikings would be interested. And at the end of the day, I think my argument leans more towards, I think they should have, I think they were interested in doing it more than I think they should have done it. Um, because I think you, you did a pretty good job convincing me. Like you just, it's, it's too much to invest in this and then maybe have to pay him if he ends up just being like, I think Daniel Jones. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, think about like even Seattle where they are with Gino Smith and Gino might have a great year and he might be great now. I don't know. Cause he was

really that good last year, but what if he's just okay? Like, I mean, then they have to pay him again and then you aren't like championship level, but he's good enough. And then what does that sound like? Does it sound like this for like five straight years? Zimbardo wants to know who you are. Don't recognize this podcast guest, but he's good. Well, okay, how about that? This is Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press. He is the human being who took over for Chris Thomason,

which is a huge shoes to fill for your job, but that is what you're doing. And he's going to be on actually every postgame. So we're going to be doing this, having some discussions after every game. And a lot of them will be more intense than this, than talking about Luigi Villain. But, you know, I've laid it out about how I feel about the Trey Lance situation repeatedly. I think it was telling where he went, though, to Dallas that, all right,

like any team that has future uncertainty, a quarterback had the chance to get him for almost nothing. And yet, and, and all these teams talk and they all know like where everybody stands and things like that. And I just feel like we kind of can put together the pieces and it's hard for me to say, well, that organization doesn't know what it's doing. So you should just take their player. Well, that organization generally does know what it's doing and has been able to go to the NFC championship game a couple of years in a row with a great roster they've built with a great coach. And so I have no issue with them not trading for Trey Lance. And, uh, but I do agree that had it been done in March all in, okay,

go ahead, like rebuild this whole thing and see if he's got it. But the fact that they didn't do it in March, now we've gone past go. Uh, I get this comment every single time on a live stream, but this one, Mark, uh, remember when, uh, last live stream, someone said Barry Sanders couldn't have run like, this is the similar to the level of comment. Do not let Kweisi off the hook. Two bad drafts. Two bad drafts. They haven't even played yet.

Also, what are you folks going to do who log on to every one of these live streams to say Kweisi doesn't know what he's doing? If Jordan Addison is awesome. Like, what do you do with yourself? What comment will you leave if that happens? I mean, give me your feeling because now I want to end on this though. I want to end on this, Dane, is your general vibe that camp is over. I kind of gave mine on yesterday's show. You can go back and listen to that. But the biggest kind of takeaway feeling of this training camp aside from that actually their draft from

this year they got two starters at premium positions at least as of right now so that's actually good but um what what's your vibe vibe check i think it's weird because i think my vibe is that like i think they're gonna be pretty good i think in some ways they might be better than last year but have a worse record if that makes sense right like they finished 13 and 4 last year and like a lot of metrics say they weren't that good i think the vikings could be a pretty good team like metrically on paper like i test whatever you want i think they can be a good team this year maybe even better than the team that finished 13 and 4 last year and still win like nine or ten games because their schedule is going to be harder yeah you're not going to go 11 no and one score games but when i walk away from the

preseason and i guess i shouldn't say preseason because these games don't matter we cannot stress that enough but when i walk away from training camp and i see a guy like jordan addison you mentioned what he could unlock in this offense. It piques my interest. I think the offense is going to be even better than it was last year. Adam Thielen, like, low-key, like, wasn't very good anymore last year. And, you know, great guy, obviously gets along with everyone, brought a lot to that room from a leadership standpoint.

But when he really got onto the field, couldn't separate anymore. Like, all the skills and the superpowers he had that made him go from this undrafted darling to this face of the franchise that probably should get his number retired one day. All of that is gone. So now you, you, you swap out Adam Thielen,

you add in Jordan Addison. If TJ Hawkinson, if you can ever figure out that contract, I take it back. Nick news can't do what TJ Hawkinson can do. Hawkinson is going to play also, by the way, like contract or not, he'll, we'll be playing football in September. Correct. So I think the offense can look really good. Um, and then the defense, I think the fact that it's just going to look different is the biggest thing that you can feel

good about. Um, it, I think it's going to be high risk high reward i think there's sometimes they're going to give up like a 75 yard touchdown because they sent blitz and you know caleb evans got burned on the outside and their the safety was in the wrong spot but like i think the fact that you're trying to get after the opposing quarterback that you're not just sitting in shell and you know letting them throw into these soft coverages that's going to be a good thing for this team. I also think that when you have Harrison Smith and you're using him the way Harrison Smith should be used, when you have Daniel Hunter and you're using him the way Daniel Hunter should be used, which Ed Donato did not do last year, I think that's going to just overall improve your defense. So I think better offensively, potentially different defensively i think they're going to be

pretty good but i still don't know if they're going to make the playoffs and it's it's a weird like juxtaposition right now because they could be better but much much worse off with the record at the end of the day i think that this on the whole the entirety of the training camp was basically the best possible scenario outside of like RB two, not being as clear, but I think it was the best possible scenario. And maybe, you know, if you're, I don't know if it's an, is it a nitpick to say that I would have preferred if someone else was the guard, but like aside from those things, and maybe that's something that, well, you know, people bring that up every day and I need solutions other than just like,

why didn't you do it? Like, well, where was the opportunity? And so if Dalton Reisner wanted $8 million a year, they just don't, you just can't pay that. Yeah.

And other than that, where was the opportunity with their salary cap situation, which they're still working through? Who would you have signed instead? Who would have been an improvement? Like these things matter. That's not to let them off the hook. The guard situation is still a concern, but I walk away thinking this is the best possible version of this team. And so go win games, right? Like we're going to of course be upset when the first time Ed Ingram looks like a Matador, but you have all the opportunity to go make the playoffs and be in

the dance to get a chance. Um, and, and so I think that a lot of things went right for them and the swing man to that was Addison and he's looked as good as we could have expected him to look no guarantees. But when you come out of a camp, like that's, that's a swing man for the offense and that's going to dictate it. So, uh So I appreciate you coming on today, by the way. And I wanted to just say one more thing. We are done today, right now, at this moment, with the 2022 draft class discussion. No more.

And this, I mean, T. Kubler, like you're one of the most loyal people coming to the show. And I appreciate that. But saying that even if Addison becomes a Hall of Famer, Kweisi will not be forgiven for the trade. Like i mean every team how about that you know what i'm never gonna forgive the chiefs for taking clyde edwards a layer just never they won the super bowl no no andy reed no they're brett veach no can't do it i mean what like bet there is there is 32 teams and 32 ridiculous, hilarious, awful draft decisions within the last five years you could look to. Was it right? No. Did we figure it out that day? Yes.

But if you come back and pick someone who's a star and someone who's a starting corner and you rebuild this team, and also we can't neglect the fact that they drafted a fourth rounder who's starting a corner right now in the same draft, one of the key positions, but the it's done. We're, we are finished. Those guys aren't playing. We will be talking from now on about people who play. And we also probably will not be having like, do you buy into Casey either? Because that's, that's over with, there's a season to be played. And so we're going to be here. Of course, I'll be there every night.

I'm talking about, you know, everything and launching a new little wing to purple insider soon. So keep an eye out for that. But Dane Mizutani is going to be here for all the games. And I'm really excited to do that, man. This was fun. It was a nice little trial run preseason for everybody and a tremendous crowd with great questions so i really appreciate everybody showing up and thank you dane for doing this yeah can't wait to continue on in the regular sheet and then talk about things that actually matter and and read his work in the pioneer press people i saw i saw some slams of the pioneer press your work is great so make sure you check out dane's stuff and we will talk to you all very soon football