Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jay Glazer thinks the Vikings want Kirk Cousins back?

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about a comment from Jay Glazer about Kirk Cousins' future that threw everyone for a loop. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar manny hill for some more hot routes as uh the maybe you're watching the broncos and kansas city chiefs play but i suppose manny if you are one of the people who's holding out hope that the Vikings can turn it around, one of your key arguments is that they play the Denver Broncos. And as of this moment, that might be a decent argument because it is amazing. And I'm going to get into this Jay Glazer thing, what he said on the Rich Eisen show with Andrew Siciliano filling in today about Kirk Cousins and the potential for a trade and everything else. But the way that the Denver Broncos have gone since they won the Super

Bowl is like they made a deal with the devil. And then it was like, you can never, ever have good quarterback play ever again, no matter who you sign or who you bring here to coach or what receivers you try to draft, that Steve Smith is absolutely throttling on television leading into this game if people didn't see it. The last man on earth I would ever talk trash to is Steve Smith. So that was a bad choice for Jerry Judy and probably an IQ test there for him.

But I got to say, I didn't think that they were, and I don't know what the final score is going to be because we're doing this during the game. I didn't think it was going to be this bad, but it's really this bad for the Denver Broncos. Yeah, the thing that, the question I have about the Broncos is what has happened to their defense? This was a team that, you know,

they had so many offensive struggles over the last couple of years. And that was kind of what was holding them back. But their defense was terrific, had been terrific really for the last few years. And then, you know, they make the trade for Russell Wilson last year. The offense is still bad, but the defense is still holding up. And when they move on from Nathaniel Hackett, they bring in Sean Payton. It's like, all right, Sean Payton, okay, he's going to step in. He's going to fix Russell Wilson.

He's going to get the offense going, and then the defense is going to be fine. And then you see the Miami Dolphins hang 70 on them, and it's like, what is going on? What has happened to the Broncos' defense? They send Randy Gregory out of town. Now Frank Clark, they're going to move on from him now too. You just have to wonder what's happening in that locker room too about what's going on behind the scenes. Is the morale of the team where it needs

to be right now? It's ugly, man. It really is. Yeah, they can't pressure the quarterback. They traded away Bradley Chubb to the Miami Dolphins last year. That was a major part of their pass rush as well. And also lost their defensive coordinator. Was that right? That they decided to change defensive coordinators under Sean Payton, I think. I'm trying to remember who it was. Someone in the comments can help me out there.

But the Vikings were talking with their defensive coordinator. That may have been a big deal, maybe not. But I was thinking about how the best quarterback play that the Broncos have gotten since Peyton Manning was actually Teddy Bridgewater. And they were like, no, it's not enough, you know, 500 quarterback and everything else. And that's true.

It wasn't enough. But yet they've come nowhere close since then. And they also don't have much of a future with all that. They have traded away to get Russell Wilson as well. I mean, Oh, Evero. Yeah.

A Jiro Evero. It was his name. Yeah. Thanks guys. So yeah, I mean that, that, that is the biggest disaster,

but then also with Russell Wilson, I always thought that the idea that Sean Payton would magically make him a new player from what he was last year was pretty dubious I mean I think Nate Hackett was not a very good NFL head coach and you know I'm not sure he was ever a great offensive coordinator outside of when he had Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and still Matt LaFleur I believe was calling the plays as well so maybe it wasn't that shocking that he wasn't that good. But when Russell Wilson was as truly awful as he was, even if he improved by quite a bit, it still wouldn't be anywhere near the Russell Wilson.

What is your theory on what happened there? Because I have one, but I'm curious to hear what what yours is honestly I I think that what what has happened to Russell Wilson is something that we've seen happen to a lot of quarterbacks I think he just got old I think he was a guy that you know in all his years in Seattle when he was at his peak with the Seahawks he was so good at escaping pressure extending plays he's always had a really good arm. He was always really accurate. And I think he just got old. I mean, he's 30, I think he's 35, or he's going to turn 35 before this season is over. He's not a spring chicken anymore. And we've talked about this with quarterbacks. What've seen from tom brady and aaron rogers

and drew breeze i mean those are three of the top probably six or seven greatest quarterbacks in the history of this of the sport what we've seen those guys do play at a high level into their late 30s and into their 40s um that's not normal it's not just a thing where any quarterback can just be 39, 40, 41 years old and still be playing at an MVP or, you know, a really high level. And I think Russ has just gotten old. I think his physical skills have deteriorated a little bit. You know, he's had some injuries over the course of his career. He's taken kind of a beating. And I think the Broncos just, you know, I think they just traded for him at the wrong time. They traded for him when he's kind of going on a downward slope in his career.

And I don't think at this point that there's going to be much of a resurgence. Yeah, I feel the same way that when I think of Russell Wilson in my brain, I think of him running this way, running back that way, finding some space, and then just throwing a moon ball to somebody, not necessarily being a pocket quarterback. And I also think, too, that they were so good at running play actions in Seattle and then throwing deep balls off of those play actions where he could get a little bit away from the offensive line, get some space and then make time, make time

and throw the ball down the field. We just don't see that sort of playmaking from him anymore, which I think has to relate to what you said to just age. And he's still running a little, but last year he only ran for something like 300 yards and in his peak he was running for five to eight hundred yards it was a very serious part of his game that he could make something out of nothing and we just don't see that and i also think too that with some quarterbacks there is a even if the physical seems to still be there there is a slowing down of the reaction time and it's you know how someone who's 35 years old in the nfl may as well be like 97 in real age like dog years but for football players i mean that's like how they take people's driver's

licenses away and when they're 90 or, like take the keys away because the reaction times are too slow when you get older. And I think that that happens to a lot of players. I don't know how in the world Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers and so forth continued to do what they did at the, at the levels going into their late thirties, but those are the extreme, extreme outliers. And some of them, you know, I mean like Manning and Drew Brees were always so far ahead of the game mentally that I think that was a big part of it where, OK, if you're just throwing with anticipation and reading the defense brilliantly and you're so much on the same page with your receivers, your head coach, you can get away with some of this. That was not exactly Russell Wilson's game. And then when you took away part of it, it was not the same. Reminds me actually of Joe Flacco a little bit. And even Jay Cutler, these guys who kind of relied on big giant arm, Jay Cutler was playmaking big arm and it goes away just a little. And all of a

sudden you're not the same level of quarterback as you once were. And now here we are with, with the, the Broncos and it's only three nothings. So I guess they're lucky here at this moment. I've, I've declared them dead in this game, but Kansas city is not exactly steamrolling him the way that it looked like it was going to go. But let's talk Manny about this Jay Glazer thing. So there was a few tweets I saw today that were like, Jay Glazer says the Vikings want to keep Kirk. Like, oh my God, Jay Glazer said that?

I mean, when you get glazed, that guy is always right. I mean, he is dialed in, he's connected. Then I watched the clip and he said, when he was at training camp, he was under the impression that the Vikings still wanted to keep Kirk. That seems very different from potentially trading him if they go to one in five, one in six and very different from what we know now and where they're at versus the offseason discussion, which was the Vikings might want to give a short-term

extension to Kirk but he wanted longer and that's why we ended up without one yeah and and I think that the the mentality going into this season was that at least from their standpoint maybe not you know maybe people like you and I had a little bit of a different viewpoint but their mentality was to kind of build off of what they did last year and contend for the division and make the playoffs and maybe make some noise. And, you know, they thought that they'd see some improvements on defense with the changing of the coordinators and everything. So the approach was going to be trying to win this year um and that's why maybe you you have the thought of like okay well we make a run to the nfc championship game then maybe you know maybe yeah maybe we do want to keep kirk around for another year or two or and give him kind of a short-term extension and kind of push forward that that thought of uh moving on to another quarterback i i, I don't know, man, I just have a hard time believing, you know, I think it'll be again,

like we've talked about, it'd be very difficult to move Kirk before the deadline just because of his contract and, you know, the circumstances surrounding some other teams that maybe might be interested in, in making, making a move for him. But I just seeing where this team is at, seeing how this season is unfolding, I just have a hard time believing

that they're going to want to keep him beyond this season. I feel exactly the same way. I mean, that in the offseason, you could make an argument for a Derek Carr-esque extension when he was with the Raiders, where it's like, if this works out really well, let's say they win 13 games again. I don't know. They've got Justin Jefferson. Anything's possible. Let's say they win 13 games again.

Well, good. Then you've got him under contract for the following season, and you roll forward. But if you have a mediocre season, then you can trade him or release him, draft a quarterback or draft a quarterback. And if you think they need to develop for a year, you could let them sit on the bench, let them grow on the bench behind Kirk for a season and then go forward from there. So that's what I think they wanted to do, which is have some flexibility and have some options. And Kirk said, no, it's time to pay Kirk, which I do not blame him or his agent for doing

because the thing that was always questioned about Cousins was can he win games? Can he be clutch? And then if you win 13 games, you're going back to them saying either marry me or break up with me. And I respect that they took that approach. I think it was the right approach for Kirk Cousins. And the Vikings said, no, we're going to this whole discussion until next March. At that point, you could see where they would say, all right, we'll wait and see. He hasn't completely closed the door, so we're just going to ride this and see where it goes.

Well, that train has taken you to one and four. And here's where we are obligated to push a button. I should really just record myself saying, it's not all Kirk's fault. So I could just push a button. So we've always got the disclaimer. Disclaimer, Purple purple insider does not believe that everything is Kirk Cousins fault. I don't. And you know, they, their defense has three takeaways, but why is that? It's because this roster is in transition and they need a lot more players if they're going to compete.

And boy, is that going to show when they play San Francisco, it's going to be like, you want to see where the bar is over there. That's where the bar is for a roster that can win a Superbowl. Okay. So until you can get to there, then it doesn't make any sense to have an older, expensive quarterback. Everything is headed this train toward breaking up with cousins and the next draft is just far too good so i think that what glazer is working on is some older information from this offseason where they would have considered that but they drew a line in the sand and they did not cross it for once somebody didn't cross it and do exactly what kirk's agent wanted them to do. And in that way, they've set themselves up, Manny, to have as much

flexibility and opportunity at the quarterback position as anybody in the league and have a situation that is extremely favorable for their next quarterback. Absolutely. And, you know, when you look at the teams around the NFL that have had success, even the teams that, you know, maybe has not won a Super Bowl, but have been competitive enough and have come really close, they've all had to make really tough roster decisions, whether it's a quarterback or, you know, somebody on the coaching staff has to go or, you know, any anything. I mean, it's a tough, you know, when Kirk Cousins has been as productive as he's been for the last, you know, it's a tough, you know, when Kirk Cousins has been as productive as he's

been for the last, you know, five now going on six seasons, it's always kind of a tricky situation in terms of like, okay, do you want to continue to have that guy be your quarterback? Because you know what you have in him. He's very productive. He puts up good numbers every year. You know, is it, is it, Would it just be safer to just keep him around and just keep trying to add pieces to build this up? But I just think that they're at a point now where it is just time. And sometimes these things have to happen naturally. I think you and I would both agree that it was probably time to move on two years ago or go back to the COVID year in 2020 when they started out one in five.

Maybe that was the time to move on from Kirk. But the reality is, is sometimes you just have to, that time has to come and smack you right in the face and tell you blatantly it is time to move on. It's not an indictment on Kirk Cousins. It's not an indictment on, you know, the previous coaching staff or anything like that. They have tried this. They're going on six seasons of this now. They've changed coaches and coordinators and schemes and, you know, traded players and added this guard and drafted this center and made all these different moves.

And it just, it's gotten you two playoff appearances in, you know, what's probably going to be six seasons now, two playoff seasons in six years. That's not good enough. And at this point now, you know what you know, you know what you've seen now and it's just time to move forward and in the eyes of some it might be a difficult decision but i think it's it's a lot easier than than some people might realize yeah i think so too and it reminds me also a little bit

of how not and this is not an indictment at all on mr glazer because he's as good as it gets for NFL insiders, but how not connected to what's happening. The NFL insiders have been with this team and you go back to the off season where even Delvin Cook's release seemed to catch a lot of people off guard. I mean, not us who had been paying attention to them, bringing back Madison and signaling that I'm not saying that every NFL insider should know every nuance to every situation. It's just that even with the Hawkinson deal and everything else and like Daniel Hunter, where there hasn't been a lot, it seems of chatter to those types. So they're just

sort of taking their best guess about what's going on. But when we've read the tea leaves of this team, we've been much more right about what they were going to do. And the tea leaves point in a very clear direction at this point. Now I came up with a trade today because let me, let me tell you a little inside football here, Manny, the Thursday press conferences with the coordinators. I love them. The coordinators are great, super insightful, like Wes Phillips, Brian Flores, Matt Daniels. I learn a lot from them. But we have to get up early and to get there, like at eight something in the morning

for these press conferences, and the locker room doesn't open to the afternoon. So there's this period of time in between where there's nothing to do. So I was thinking of Kirk Cousins' trades during this time. Like if this were to actually happen all right jets probably not at this point and the moving parts they're difficult the atlanta thing has been brought up um desmond ritter sort of may have saved himself this week i don't know

if they would do that sure that's an opportunity but i came up with another one this one's hot man you get ready okay this is hot routes this is not cool mediocre lukewarm routes all right how about this i don't think kirk takes a trade unless he knows their extension coming unless it's to san francisco if brock purdy got hurt what if they traded him to the patriots for a third round pick or something? Second round pick got Mac Jones in return. Now this is with no plan to have Mac as your long-term starter. This is the, just in case you're still drafting one in case the guy you draft isn't good or just that like in case he needs to sit for a year or whatever else

that you've got someone to play quarterback, someone who is reasonable for the rest of the season. If Jefferson comes back from his injury and so forth, but I could see Belichick thinking, you know, I really need like a quarterback. This is the big problem. I need to get over that threshold of wins to set the record and so forth. And we're going to just, and it doesn't matter because I'm old, so I'm not going to stay for much longer. So let's give him three years, 130 million done deal Vikings trading Kirk to the Patriots.

What do you think? I actually like it. Seriously. I actually kind of like it. And it would kind of make sense for Bill Belichick, to your point. Like, Bill, we all kind of know it's Bill's nearing the end of his time as a head coach. And he's going to be a Hall of Famer. He's arguably the greatest coach of all time.

And he might have it in his head that you just give me Kirk Cousins. He executes an offense. You know, give him a full training camp. He can step in. He can do everything that we tell him to do. You know, if we can just add a couple more pieces around him, maybe get him one more weapon, another receiver, another tight end to throw to.

You know, we've got some pretty good pieces on defense, so we'll be in every game. We can just make this move for a veteran guy and Bill Belichick just he he strikes me as a guy that at this stage of his career he just doesn't like dealing with young players anyway like he wants veteran guys that know what they're doing so yeah it seems like it would make a lot of sense. And Mac Jones coming back here, that would be very interesting as well. Do you get the sense that maybe, you know, maybe not necessarily here, you know, if this trade doesn't happen, but like that this is going to be kind of what Mac Jones is for the rest of his career. Like he's just going to be, I feel like he's going to be in the league for a long time, but he's never really going to have a team that just like commits to him long-term as a franchise quarterback. He's always going to be kind of a bridge guy. And then when you look up at the end of his career, he's played for like seven different teams. Like I

kind of feel like Mac Jones is kind of headed down that journeyman type of route. But when he plays, he'll be solid for you. He'll win a few games for you, but he's never going to be a guy that can get you over the hump. You know, I think that Mac Jones has the potential, depending on where he goes, to either become exactly that where he's like a Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer. You can have him as your starter. Matt Castle is in the comments like that or a Ryan Tannehill where the situation was so garbage because it's a joke there. The receivers they have are a disaster. The offensive line is a disaster. And I don't think anyone ever thought that Mac Jones would be the type of quarterback where you can give him nothing. And we're going to talk about this with Justin Fields, but where you could give him nothing. And then he would just magic his way to being amazing.

I don't think anyone thought that, but when he went there and then had success early, then they lost their offensive line. They didn't replace receivers. They made bad signings at receiver. Now, Jacoby Myers, who's a decent player, he ends up leaving. They hire Matt Patricia, Bill O'Brien. They're trying to kind of like, you know, stoke up the past from him, but they acted like that was a great hire. I don't know why you think that. So, I mean, I think that there's a team out there where he could be good for, but like you said, you never have to really lock yourself into him because he has no history. So you can draft somebody and he can just be that one year guy if you need him to be the Andy Dalton of sorts, or if he's your backup, then, oh, well, that's fine. You know, Tannehill was the backup for Mariota actually to start. So that was one

another team I thought of that no one has discussed at all, but they are leading a division, and they have a great football team outside of their quarterback. Do you know who I'm talking about? Let me look at the division leaders right now. Who could you be? Thank you, Tom. No one's waiting. Are you talking about pittsburgh i am talking about pittsburgh how is this not brought up kenny pickett's not good huh like i can't kenny pickett also actually tang mentions the bucks

i mean not not the bucks i mayfield's playing okay through five games, but Pittsburgh has a legit team. They've got a top wide receiver. They've got at least a reasonable offensive line, a couple in like two weeks later, is he better than Kenny Pickett? Does he give them a serious chance in the AFC? I think that they're pretty far behind Miami and Buffalo and probably Kansas City still, but everybody else. And it's a Mike Tomlin team. I don't know. You get a home playoff game. Maybe.

I thought it's never brought up. It's people act like Kenny picket because he's won some games a little bit has proven himself as an NFL quarterback. And he most certainly hasn't at the hockey game. I saw this on Twitter at the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey game. They were chanting to fire the offensive coordinator. So clearly they're blaming someone else, but usually these things can be directed back to the quarterback. crazy i mean if we're if we're gonna do this

we're gonna go down this road of making up trades like there's teams there's teams i don't think it's gonna happen though do you no i don't think it's gonna happen but i i could see as a a way where it could work in pittsburgh i mean offense is just – I was watching them in the Ravens on Sunday, man. And, of course, it's a typical Steelers-Ravens game where it's low scoring and just kind of one of those snot-nosed games. But I'm just watching Kenny Pickett try and operate that offense, and it's like, what is happening? What is wrong? This should not be,

this is not like an NFL offense in 2023. And it seems like if you plug in, you know, a more competent quarterback, a veteran quarterback that, you know, it would at least add a little bit of juice to that offense. You know, I don't know if Kirk could just step in right away, especially, I think, especially a quarterback like Kirk, where I think it would take, you know, a couple of weeks probably for him to kind of learn the new scheme and get comfortable with teammates and then, you know, things might be better. But, you know, when you look at where Pittsburgh is at right now,

I mean, they're leading the division. They're tied with the Ravens for the top of the AFC North it's kind of a division where like okay yeah Baltimore is is probably the team to beat right now but Cincinnati it's like how healthy is Joe Burrow gonna be maybe this is just gonna be kind of a down year for them Cleveland I still don't really know how good Cleveland is yet. Is Deshaun Watson going to get it in gear? You know, they haven't, their, their offense has been struggling too, although their defense is really good.

Um, and then you just kind of have Baltimore there, you know, as kind of like kind of the front runner right now for that division. So if you're Pittsburgh, you might see an opportunity here where like, Hey, you know, give up maybe like a third round pick, get Kirk in the building. And if we're still kind of hanging around, maybe we could, you know, surprise some people and sneak up and make the playoffs and maybe make a little bit of noise. I like it. I mean, if we're, if we're, if we're doing that and we'll see,

if we have to do that or not um kirk talked about it this week and he's you know i'm gonna go one and oh and i'm not paying attention to the rumors or anything else like that it's just there are maybe some opportunities if that happens and i can't remember any other mid-season starting quality quarterback trades aside from Carson Palmer, who went four and five as a starter for the Raiders. And then the wheels fell completely off there before he ended up in Arizona, but not of the level of a pro bowl quarterback, just in the middle of the season being shipped to a contender. We are in a new trade deadline era though, where, when, I mean, even i shouldn't even say when we were growing up

i mean even like eight years ago the trade deadline was i don't know oh today's the trade deadline whatever we i mean when i was first starting in the industry when working radio in buffalo we didn't even do like a deadline special or anything because we knew nothing was going to happen now Now stuff does happen. Maybe it will happen. Speaking of making it happen, Manny, we like to make it happen on this show with PrizePix. If you haven't tried PrizePix, a wonderful sponsor of this show,

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Absolutely nailed. I knew that no one was getting the end zone in that game, except for DJ more. He played well. So here's for this week for me, I'm going more Kirk cousins yardage than 250.5 yards, more passing yards for Justin Fields than 196.5. And absolutely, despite him being on the injury report,

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Grab your friends, enjoy a few slices in the tastiest hour before kickoff. So there you have it. Speaking of Justin Fields throwing for more than 196.5 yards do you ever think about manny you know i know as you go throughout your day you're a busy man you got a lot going on but maybe driving to work or whatever else it is that you do comes into your mind scenarios what ifs with the vikings the, not that Vikings fans have a lot of those, but the occasional. What if they drafted Justin Fields?

How much different would it be? Would it be different at all? Where would we be right now if the Vikings had made a serious trade offer to the Panthers? I believe it was that they were trying to trade up to pick Justin Fields. What do you think? So this was 2021, right? And that would mean that they would not have Christian Derrissaw.

That would, I think that would definitely change some things. You don't have a very good left tackle uh which he is a very good left tackle uh i think that would change some things for your quarterback now the flip side to that is justin fields is obviously very mobile and he can get out and extend plays if possible um yeah i don't know it's it's i i don't know, certainly you trade for Justin Fields. That would mean that how would Mike Zimmer have been dealing with a young quarterback again, especially a guy like Justin Fields that we know now is a guy that needs a lot of work and needs to kind of continue developing as a passer. You know, some young quarterbacks are more ready than others to kind of step in right

away. um you know some young quarterbacks are are more ready than others to kind of step in right away um Justin Fields clearly has not been and he's still you know trying to grow and improve and if you're Mike Zimmer and you're on the hot seat in 2021 how are you you know how are you dealing with that entire scenario and maybe maybe Kirk is still on the team at that point but he he's starting and Justin Fields is backing up. I don't know. It would be interesting. I think, you know, if you're thinking about, OK, let's say they still go 8-9 that year and they move on from Mike Zimmer and they bring in Kevin O'Connell. You know, perhaps the process is sped up a little bit, the process that we've been talking about rebuilding this roster and starting over with a young quarterback and lots of cap flexibility because you don't have that huge veteran quarterback contract on your books. Yeah, I mean, maybe he's a little bit better with Kevin O'Connell.

I don't know. It's hard to just watching Justin Fields. It's hard to really, and I was a guy that was rooting for him and defending him when everybody was kind of putting the, well, Ohio state quarterbacks are never that good in the NFL, but yeah, how's that CJ Stroud guy looking right now? He looks pretty good by the way, for people who like to run with that narrative. But anyway uh so i was always kind of rooting for justin fields to be successful just because of that stupid narrative um but i don't know man it's just hard to really see if even a guy like kevin o'connell would have been able to kind of turn him into something that's better than what he is right now in Chicago.

So we have to really like play this one out because there's a lot of things that could have happened in between that we're not sure about, like the coaching situation. But if you say draft him that year and you don't move on from Kirk Cousins and just put him in immediately, which would make sense because he was not a finished product coming out of Ohio State. I don't think anyone thought that. We've seen plenty of quarterbacks when they do get time to sit and develop. It's kind of rare, but often it works for them. Let's say then that Kirk plays out 2021. They hire the same exact regime and not Jim Harbaugh instead. And so they go with Kweisi Dalfomenta, they go with Kevin O'Connell. And instead of giving Kirk a one-year extension, they trade him to the Indianapolis Colts, who I think were one of the

teams that called about Cousins, didn't give a great offer, and they decided to stick with him during that offseason. Then you are turning the ball over to Justin Fields with a year of development, presumably sitting behind Kirk Cousins, even if it may have been unhappy development with the way that season went, but development, welcome to the NFL buddy. And then you get Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen to start with last year. Who knows if they wouldn't have probably been able to trade for TJ Hawkinson at that point. So there's a lot of things that, yeah, it's hard to figure out who is playing left tackle. That certainly matters for a guy that holds on to the ball. But I think about all the time, circumstances and quarterbacks

and how much those two things are tied together always and forever. And this is the time, circumstances and quarterbacks and how much those two things are tied together, always in forever. And this is the big, is Brock Purdy actually any good? And I remember is Kurt Warner actually any good? Is Tom Brady actually any good? Or is Tim Tebow actually any good? We've been doing this forever based on circumstances and quarterbacks. The circumstance that he was dropped into chaos, tanking, no receivers, no offensive line, a defensive head coach, by the way, in Matt Eberflus, who is not a former NFL quarterback, very different. And just looking at fields, the accumulation of his last about year and a half or maybe even less than a year, about when they played the Vikings last year to this point, there has been a lot of signs, not consistent signs, but a lot of signs that he can play in the NFL, like against Washington and even against the Vikings, he was really good in the second half of that game. I do wonder how much different, if we would be saying, oh, we still don't know, and I guess we'll see.

And then you also have to wonder about the other money that would have gone into this roster. You talk about your left tackle, but the pass rush, the secondary, the other cap space that would have been put into this roster, and maybe they would have been much more at ease with moving on from some of those guys last year instead of waiting until this year and hurting their cap situation i think it's a very interesting scenario to talk about and i i have to imagine it would have gone better for justin fields than what it's done so far in Chicago? Well, it's like, you know, with a lot of young quarterbacks,

chaos is just the worst case scenario for them. I mean, we even saw a guy like, I'll go back to 2005 when Alex Smith was the number one pick in the draft, and the 49ers were just a complete wreck back then. I think it was Mike Nolan, the head coach, defensive-minded coach, by the way, back then, and there it was Mike Nolan, the head coach, defensive-minded coach, by the way, back then. And there just wasn't a lot of talent because they had moved on from the T.O., Jeff Garcia, that era of 49ers football was in the rearview mirror and they had really

kind of blown everything up and started over. But there just wasn't a lot there to, to, to work with. And it was a coaching staff that just, I don't think was very good either. And, you know, and Alex Smith had some injuries and everything too, but it was basically like what I'm saying as is it was the worst possible situation for a young quarterback to step into. And from what we've seen from the bears the last couple of years, it's very similar. It's, it's a lot of that same sort of chaos, you know,

changing changing front office you know, changing a general manager after the young quarterback is drafted. Yeah, man. I mean, it's, it's I, I tend to think even, you know, even in the case of the Vikings, there would have been a front office change too, in theory, if things would have played out. Although I don't know. I mean, if, would they have moved on from Rick Spielman? If the idea was that he drafted that young quarterback, let's, you know,

moved on from the head coach. We still have this young quarterback. Let me see if I can build a roster from him. Would they have moved on from Rick at that point? That's another thing I think to kind of think about too. But yeah, I think his ceiling is really high. I just wonder if there's going to be, there would be enough of an infrastructure around him to get to where he needs to be as a player, even if it was a situation here. Purple Insider is brought to you by Better Help. Friends, have you ever had times where you felt like your brain is getting in the way? Like maybe your brain is racing and you can't fall asleep or you can't slow down negative intrusive thoughts and you know you should look for help, but you haven't brought yourself to do it yet. Well, therapy can help you figure out what's holding you back so you can work for yourself rather than working against yourself. Therapy can be as simple as finding training methods

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for no additional charge. Make your brain your friend with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash insider today to get 10 off your first month that's betterhelp.com slash insider yeah i don't know that there's ever like a way to quantify what Justin Jefferson means to a quarterback. I mean, you can try to figure it out and you can use numbers to try to figure it out. But there's also this other element that I think we're going to see in the coming weeks where everybody else is also better. Like not just the quarterback, but the offensive line, because he's getting open instantly be the other wide receivers

because they're always not facing an extra safety that's dedicated to that man like i think that's a big difference maker to have him versus darnell mooney was your wide receiver one i mean that guy's like a wide receiver four on a good team he's a bit player he. He's like a Taylor Gabriel or like Brandon Powell or something. That's like having him much respect to Brandon Powell, by the way, who's going to get a chance here with Jefferson out for, you know, he's fought through a career to be here, but that's what he is talent wise probably. And that's the guy that they want to be a top wide receiver and now dj moore is showing what that can really do at times fields inconsistency his ability to get sacked all the time those i don't know would change but it has to matter that the number one wide receiver isn't just a little better than what he's had in

the past he is universe is better than what he's had in the past. He is universe is better than what he's had in the past. I also think that their offensive coordinator versus Kevin O'Connell is quite different as well with having the head coach be that guy, as opposed to Lou Getzey and also the head coach coming from McVay coming from a Superbowl. These things add up. Doesn't mean that fields would have been Mahomes. We also can't ignore the situation Mahomes was dropped into Tyree kill Travis Kelsey, a team that one was at 11 games the previous season. One of the greatest quarterback head coaches ever in Andy Reed. These things make a difference. He's still great. And that doesn't take a thing away from his excellence. They have to contribute to his success.

I think it would have been different. On the other side of this coin, I want to know, Manny, as we're getting into the tank wars now, with teams separating themselves of who is awful, New York Giants, Carolina Panthers, so forth, who is going to compete for the Super Bowl? These teams have already been decided, and now we race to the end. Who do you think is drafting Caleb Williams and Drake May at number one and number two overall? I, yeah, I was kind of juggling over a couple of different teams.

I do think Arizona is going to be pretty bad, and they're going to end up taking a quarterback. What that means for Kyler Murray going forward, I guess we'll find out. Is that going to be Caleb Williams? I know there was some hinting that Caleb Williams would not want to go there. I would kind of understand that considering the situation out there,

speaking of teams that are just kind of in chaos right now. But I do think Arizona is going to be bad enough to where they're going to end up with the number one pick and they're going to take, whether it's Caleb Williams or Drake May. Maybe it's Drake May. Maybe if they find out that Caleb Williams really doesn't want to go there,

well, then you've got Drake May there as sort of an alternate, and maybe they go that direction there. But I do think Arizona is going to take one of those guys. Is New England really going to be like 3-14? If the Patriots are like 3-14, that offense is really, really bad. It's really, really bad. And this is where I was kind of juggling because I can't wrap my head around a Bill Belichick team being so bad to where they're picking in the top three of a draft. It's just unfathomable for that to happen. But that team looks really, really awful right now. And they're trending towards being kind of picking in that top three spot. So I'll go with New England, then taking Drake May and being, you know, deciding that Mac Jones is not the guy.

And maybe they still hold on to Mac Jones to be kind of a veteran starter while Drake may slash Caleb Williams kind of learns for a little bit and then finally turning over the reins to them so I'll go Arizona and New England one and two taking those two quarterbacks I think it's a good call on Arizona because they won a single game and then sort of played hard in some other games. And it was, Oh, Arizona, look at you. But I recall, was it Jacksonville went one and O or one in one and then went one and 15 or two and 14 when they picked Trayvon Walker? You know, this happens all the time.

The beginning of the season, the team has their full terrible roster. Everything's not shaken out yet. And then once everybody starts to really separate injuries happen usually the bad teams have absolutely no depth and then they end up at the top that's where a kyler murray discussion in minnesota starts to maybe start to bubble up if they are ahead in the tank wars that could happen Chicago is certainly in this conversation Justin Fields has two good games and it's oh well maybe Justin Fields but if you're them and Carolina goes 1 and 16 which is looking possible that roster is putrid they'll win at some point, but not many games. How can you turn that down with an elite prospect and Justin Fields going into a point where he has not proven to be consistently great?

I mean, you're basically choosing excellence over a roller coaster of someone who can be good. They have to start having that discussion as well. Aside from that, it is, it is interesting to try to figure out who else it could be if I'm not picking new England, because that's who I was thinking about. Does Denver have their first round pick this year? Do they have any first round picks ever? I, I'd have to look that up because they look like they're going to lose a ton of games. Las Vegas is another team that could also really sink. Josh McDaniels can't coach.

Jimmy Garoppolo doesn't stay healthy. That could be going in a bad way, potentially. I don't think the Vikings, even if, I mean, if they keep Kirk Cousins get into this conversation. Oh, the Giants, the Giants. They have to draft Caleb Williams. If they get that chance, they just absolutely, there's no other choice. Daniel Jones, this is not his fault. That team is an abomination.

But if you've got the opportunity, you have to do it. So I think we've gotten to where these tank wars, there's only going to be a handful of teams. And you know who could also really collapse is Washington. I like Sam Howell. It's a nice little story. But that collapse is Washington. I like Sam Howell. It's a nice little story, but that team is awful. Their defense is so pathetic. Lee asks, your theory of cap space would be more persuasive if players like Sauce Gardner or Micah Parsons became free agents.

They rarely do. You end up with Davenport and Murphy Jr. Well, you end up with Davenport and Murphy Jr. when you have no cap space. When you have cap space, see, here's the thing about cap space. It's not just about the players you can sign in free agency, of which there are usually a handful of good players who end up as free agents. But where it really comes into play is when another team has a disgruntled player who wants to be traded, who's really good. And you are Miami. How do you think Miami traded for Teron Armstead or did they sign him? They signed Teron Armstead and they traded for Tyree kill. These are two of the greatest football players on earth and they got them from other teams. Did they do that because they were paying their quarterback 25 to $40 million in cap space? No, they did it by having a ton of cap space because their quarterback costs nothing at the moment. And so you are Johnny on the spot when another team's

wide receiver or whatever edge rusher, Hey, how did Chicago get Khal khalil mac boy that worked out great for him what a trade oh yeah it's because they had mitch trubisky on the rookie contract so it's not just free agents it's also being able to trade for those guys as well if you need to it just gives you so much more flexibility buffalo how was buffalo able to trade for stefan diggs because they had josh allen who was a young quarterback on a rookie deal. He was really good. And they saw an opportunity like, oh, hey, Stefan Diggs, he's disgruntled. He's one of the best wide receivers in the NFL.

Make it a hefty chunk of change. Oh, look, we have cap space and a young quarterback. Let's pull the trigger on a deal like that and make it happen. And now the rest is history exactly exactly um do you have uh oh i was going to ask you about this week's uh slate of games because it's actually kind of terrible um including the vikings who like we're gonna watch i'll be there in chicago but aside from that, but I was going to ask one other question. Oh, do you, do you have like a thought on Caleb Williams and Drake may, is there, is there going to be a debate there? Or is it like Caleb Williams?

I feel like Caleb Williams, I feel like a lot of people are going to see him as the number one guy. I don't, I, you know, my sort of amateur quarterback brain, I don't see Drake May as super far behind him. I do think we're going to see a scenario where probably both of them, they go like one and two, you know, depending on, probably depending on who the, who has the first and second picks in the draft. I mean, if it's two teams that need quarterbacks, then I think those two guys will go one and two.

I mean, Caleb Williams, just what he does in that offense, the way he can, you know, escape and extend plays and he goes through his progressions. Great. That offense is just, that USC is just a machine. And Drake May just has, you can see he has all the physical tools. He's a big guy, 6'4", 235 pounds. He's got a great arm. He goes through his progressions pretty well. It's a pretty good offense down there in North Carolina. I tend to think Caleb is a little bit ahead of him, but I don't think it's a huge, huge gap between those two guys. I think I could very easily see them going one and two next spring.

Sometimes quarterback is like we're watching two different worlds. Zlin says Drake May looked mid versus the gophers and through two awful picks, not a discussion. He threw for 414 yards and blew out the gophers. Yeah. I remember he threw the interceptions, but that hasn't been a problem. I, I am amazed by Drake Mays arm talent and watching some of the throws that he

made last week, rare, rare arm and down the field accuracy. The thing about Caleb Williams that I think will be the game changer that puts him ahead and may does have some ability to make off schedule plays and run. But Caleb Williams is a prolific runner potentially, which is very rare, even still in a running quarterback era, but to find someone who's actually a difference maker. The other thing is

too, that he can do things because of his strength. He's so strong. He can do things with the football that just people can't do, like make throws out of angles that you just can't make. And so he's going to have to speed up his his process he can't run around with the football all the time like he does in college but hit that raw talent is so outrageously high for caleb williams i don't think it will be a huge debate it'll probably be williams and then drake may and then we'll see after that but you know i'm thinking i'm thinking there's going to be at least four, and maybe if Shadur Sanders does come out, then five first-round quarterbacks. So the Vikings will have opportunities, but I don't think they're going to be quite as bad as some of these other teams

unless they trade Kirk Cousins away, unless Justin Jefferson sits the whole year, unless Daniel Hunter gets hurt. There's a scenario, but it's going to take five things to happen. For the Giants, It just takes giants or for the Cardinals just be the Cardinals. Last thing I want to say, yeah, there is a pretty gnarly schedule this week. And just like, even the Thursday night game is 13, nothing now, not great. Oh, look on Monday night football, we get the Dallas cowboys and on sunday night football the new york giants

terrible i you know terrible i know they made the playoffs and they beat the vikings and everything but it's kind of astonishing to me that the giants have gotten like this much primetime love and i know it's new york it's the giantsants and all that, but that team is so rotten. The team is so bad that I cannot believe that we've been subjected to having to like continue to watch them. And you know, they're going to go, they're going to go into Buffalo on Sunday night and they're going to get their asses kicked. It's going to be like, you bills 45 giants 7 or something like that because that's what we've been seeing from the giants all season long unless they played arizona which basically handed them that football game because arizona reminded themselves oh wait we're tanking

we're not supposed to be good we're not supposed to beat the giants so yeah i it's well giants barf yuck gross uh lee lee is really not buying that you can ever get any players here uh lee says disgruntled players always pick minnesota as their first destination see trent williams what i mean if you trade someone to a team then they go where they're going to go remember when people i want you guys to look this up. If you have Twitter, put in Siberia, Stefan Diggs, and see how every person said when Diggs was traded to Buffalo that he was traded to Siberia. And since then, they've done nothing but win. And has Minnesota ever had star players?

I can't think of any. Oh, can't think of any. I remember a certain Hall of Fame quarterback that played in Green Bay for 16 years that basically when he knew he was on his way out from Green Bay, it was pretty clear and obvious he wanted to come here. Had to wait a season for it.

Had to play a season in New York for it, but he eventually made his way here. I recall them also trading for Jared Allen as well. Pretty good player. I remember they signed Antoine Winfield here. That was even before the organization was as good as it is. I don't think that this team has trouble convincing people to come here. They are the top NFL PA surveyed team for players. They have the best stadium in the league. They have a stable ownership. They pay out big contracts.

I don't know what, like there's nothing keeping players from coming here or, or staying here, by the way, how many players from that previous regime, Harrison Smith returned a bunch of times. Anthony Barr came back. Daniil Hunter has let them screw around with his contract every single year.

Where in the world would you get the idea that players don't like being here? I think that's completely false narrative. But yeah, anyway, so the schedule is not good. I mean, I think with the Giants, it's sort of like how, you know, what you saw from Brian Dable getting the coach of the year, where there is still a New York effect with this that just needs to go away. Yes, Patrick Peterson came here. What's he ever done?

We could go on all day. That's kind of the point. It's just, I mean, that to me is just sort of trying to be miserable for miserable sake, which I don't blame you because you've been watching the vikings my guess is for a long time anyhow with this week's schedule manny who do you think as ugly as it may be to watch will come out feeling the best from this week like which team will say we had a great week a great win we're on our way everything is wonderful i'm gonna go with the detroit lions because i think they're still even though they're four and one and they've looked really good so far i think there's still a few a few people saying like

yeah but the line there's still the Lions, and are they really up there with Philadelphia and San Francisco, which for the record, I don't think they're that good yet. I think they're just a step below those two teams, but I think there's still some doubt about are the Lions really

legit? Are they going to run away with the NFC North, which I happen to think things are kind of looking like they're going to right now. But I think going into Tampa, the Buccaneers are kind of like a team that they've managed to put together a few wins. They're in a bad division, and they just happen to be leading it. But I think there's a little bit of steam with them just because they're 3-1, got off to a nice start, and they're happen to be leading it. But I think there's a little bit of steam with them just because they're 3-1, got off to a nice start,

and they're at home. And I think it's the America's Game of the Week, I think, on Fox. Either that or it's Eagles-Jets. I'm not sure which one of those games gets the A-team from Fox. But nonetheless, I think the Lions go into Tampa, play really well. Then they're 5-1, really have a lot of space ahead in the division,

regardless of what happens with the Vikings and the Bears. And I think the Lions will be feeling really – I think they already feel really good about themselves, and I think you go into Tampa, you get a win, you're 5-1, and you're really in control of that division. You're feeling really good about yourself. I have a few potential nominations here. If the Seattle Seahawks beat the Cincinnati Bengals

in Cincinnati, very possible, considering Burrow's still not 100%. They will be 4-1, and they will feel like they are on a fast track in the NFC, where teams who thought they might be contenders have dropped off pretty quickly. You've got a great chance at getting a playoff spot there behind San Francisco. If you start four and one, if you're the Seahawks, San Francisco is the other team.

They're playing the PJ Walker Browns. And as much as we root for anyone who was once in the XFL to make it PJ Walker against the San Francisco 49ers defense is not a good matchup. They're coming to Minnesota at 6-0, feeling like they're on the top of the National Football League. And I will go with also the Los Angeles Chargers beating Dallas on Monday night, and they go from 0 from Owen tombstone to three straight wins as ugly as they may have been.

And they almost lost all the games. And they are talking about how they've turned it around. They're a Superbowl contender. Now all good to go. And Mike McCarthy is fired and Dak Prescott is traded and it's all over in Dallas as they're falling apart. And, and Lee,

I get what you're saying that you have to build through the draft, but if we look at like the Los Angeles Rams, they supplemented their draft picks and good decisions with Odell Beckham, Vaughn Miller, the Cincinnati Bengals went and got Trey Hendrickson. They rebuilt their secondary. The Detroit lions went and completely rebuilt their secondary this year. I mean, you always have to do it through both. There's no one answer, but you get to a point and this is where the Vikings need to get to draft a quarterback, then get to a point where you go into free agency with a bunch of money in your pocket, or you go into the trade market and say, how can we get over the hump? And that's what the great teams have done.

Miami, Buffalo, Cincinnati, great examples of teams who have done this. Philadelphia, great example. They just kept loading up on their defensive line. They kept bringing in players. Hassan Reddick they went and got. It's like bonus players. A.J. Brown. So they're going to try to do the same thing uh at some point i assume well

another another day what do we got for a score man are you still watching the game over there yeah it's 13 nothing chiefs and they're in the scoring position again and okay i won't do any play-by-play but they're probably going to score a touchdown here yeah i think that actually jeff bezos will have you arrested if you say anything more than just what the score is right now on this live stream so well uh thanks manny we'll see how it goes um and uh after this week we're gonna have a really good idea is the season still live is the season absolutely DOA? We will know by about 3.30 on Sunday afternoon. And you and I will talk again on Monday evening. So thanks for your time.

Thanks for everybody in the comments who watched live and who listened on the podcast feed as well. And we will catch you all later. Football.