Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jeremiah Sirles breaks down J.J. McCarthy's latest comments

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Vikings rookie QB J.J. McCarthy was on The Rich Eisen Show discussing his rehab and return to play. Matthew Coller is joined by former Vikings lineman Jeremiah Sirles to break down McCarthy's comments. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and it is time once again for Tuesday morning left guard with former Minnesota Viking Jeremiah Searles. And Jeremiah, I've been on a bit of a run lately where breaking news happens right before the podcast and not after. And I don't know if this falls under the category of breaking news, but JJ McCarthy has spoken and he went on the Rich Eisen show. I guess there's a Michigan connection there with Rich Eisen and JJ McCarthy. So to start the show, I have Kevin

Seifert's transcription of it on my phone and I'm going to read it. Thanks Seifert for watching and transcribing the interview. Appreciate you doing the work for me. Uh, so here is what JJ McCarthy had to say about his last year. He said, it's been really hard. I'm not going to lie straight up. And on him and Kevin O'Connell's conversations about 2025, JJ McCarthy said to Rich Eisen, our conversations have just been about nothing, but the greatest thing for the Minnesota Vikings about 2025. JJ McCarthy said to Rich Eisen, our conversations have just been about nothing but the greatest thing for the Minnesota Vikings. At the end of the day, there are a lot of things

that certainly are above my pay grade and some things above his, which is kind of interesting. And he goes on to say, he's the one with the pen last on the field. And that's all I know, referring to O'Connell. All I can ask is for

a fair opportunity. That's the one thing I feel like everybody's given. And it's fundamental. When money gets involved, things get complicated and reps get skewed. And there's different things that come into the whole political world that everyone talks about. But I really just want to focus on controlling what I can control. My feelings don't matter. I'm not getting any grace. There's no sympathy. This is the big leaks. So those are JJ McCarthy's comments. Jeremiah, your reaction.

Well, I'm glad he, the last part of that makes me feel good that he understands, like, it doesn't matter. I was a first round pick. Like all of that. I have to show out. No one's going to feel sorry for me, right? The NFL, the streets littered with talent from the NFL that just didn't pan out. It's littered with it. And he understands that the interesting things that stand out to me there are the things

of the above my pay grade thing, because for me, that means KOC is kicking the blame and kicking the can away of like, listen, I think if it was up to me, probably have you be my pencil and starter for 2025, right? But the cap guy like Brzezinski and you know, uh, Casey, those guys, they're going to have to figure all that out upstairs. And then I'm just going to, I mean, I just coach coach, right? I coach the players that are given to me, right? That sounds like he's trying to hedge a little bit to keep McCarthy happy, but also not just like, you're it. You're the guy. We're coming in 2025.

It's your show, bud. He's hedging a little bit there to protect himself and also protect JJ a little bit, too. Well, you know what I couldn't help but think of there? And I just want to acknowledge that reading into this comment is unfair. It's wrong. It's not, though though it's almost the off season dude we're about this is the time where you have to just start digging and like you don't have weekly storylines of coaches and players fighting and like you just this is where you make your money matthew the off season it is but as a journalist i feel it's important to acknowledge that before I go

down this road, because he didn't say it to me and I didn't get a follow-up. So I would have liked to have asked what you mean when you say some are above his head. I went to who is above Kevin O'Connell. It's not Kweisi Adafo Mensah at absolute best. best they're even and i don't think that's really the case at this point kevin o'connell just got the contract we still don't have one for the general manager its contract is one of the most expensive at least reportedly in the nfl so we're talking about the 14 win coach all that sort of stuff he wields the biggest sword, except for who? The folks who write those checks. Mr. Wilf. Exactly.

Wilves, if you will. And so one thing I thought of here is something that one of my favorite podcasts on PFF used to say all the time about big decisions in the NFL. General managers control roster number two through 53 and owners control number one, which is quarterback. If the Wilfs want Sam Darnold to be their quarterback in 2025, Sam Darnold will be their quarterback in 2025. And I don't know how you hear that comment and think, why would he say someone is above Kevin O'Connell's pay grade when referring to this situation? And it does not read like this comment, like, oh, I'm the guy now.

Sam's leaving. Best of luck to him. And JJ's here. It doesn't really read that way. No, I didn't read it that way either. And I actually saw this came up before we were going to record. So I actually kind of went through and read it and nowhere in there. Did he say like, it's my show, right? Nowhere did he plant his flag also, which I thought was

interesting. You know, that could have been a moment for him to say, you know what? I'm excited to take this year by the horns. I'm excited to be the starting quarterback for the Vikings. Like this was a moment for him to plant a flag and say, I'm back. I'm good. It's my time. But the comment in there of, he said, what's best for the Minnesota Vikings, right? That's a conversation that's had that there was no promises given to JJ McCarthy, probably because like you said, we don't know what they're doing with Sam Darnold, right? And when you have to make a decision and you know that JJ is going to be on my team no matter what. JJ is not going anywhere. Sam Darnold might be going somewhere or he might be on my team.

I have to make sure that I keep JJ somewhat happy and also keep him a little bit grounded. Because if I just turn this thing over to him right now, who knows what's going to happen, right? Competition is great, right? Competition breeds greatness. I say that all the time. Everyone needs competition, especially the quarterback position until you're the dude, right? Matt Stafford doesn't need a quarterback competition in August, right? But if you're Sam Darnold or JJ McCarthy, you want to have that, Hey, I don't know whose show it's going to be next year. It's one of your two. So I'm going to keep you both on this kind of level playing field until we get through it.

Now, that all said, JJ did react a little bit to money, reps, politics. That's as true as anything in this league, right? If that wasn't true, guess what? Aaron Rodgers would be out right now. But they're going, 49 million in dead cap? Yeah, I think he's going to stay, right? So McCarthy, or excuse me, Darnold comes with a big extension.

We all know it's Darnold's job, right? I mean, that's no secret. If you extend him for two, three years with a lot of, I mean, a hundred million guaranteed, it's obviously Sam Darnold's job. So I think that they still don't really know what they want to do with Sam Darnold.

And I think a lot of that is due to JJ McCarthy's health. Now, let me also add that JJ McCarthy, this is my observation from our handful of interviews with him at the podium and so forth. It's a very sharp dude. He does not handle press conferences like a 22 year old. He handles them. This is one of my first observations. I said to one of the people with the Vikings, I was like, I think we just did an interview with a 28 year old veteran quarterback, the way that he handles himself, which could mean that all of these words are just him making sure that he is not talking in definitive type of language about himself being the quarterback. Because if I were working with him

and I know the Vikings have very good, you know, this, they have very good PR people. They're sharp. If I'm working with him, I'm saying, here's the key to an interview like this. You don't really want to come off as, Hey, Sam's out. I'm in like, you don't want to come off that way at all. And he also might not have the answer yet. He might not himself because I don't think as soon as the season ends, KOC picks up his phone and says, JJ, you're the guy, even as bad as it was. And even though every Vikings fan would have picked up the phone and called them and said, JJ, you're the guy. You just don't know that.

And as they go through this off season process, they don't have all the answers in terms of their meetings and their salary cap situation and their free agents and everything they're going to do. They have not gone through that likely yet, depending on their schedule, but teams usually do it right before the combine. So they're kind of locked into their goals at the combine. So they may not have worked this out yet. And O'Connell can say to JJ McCarthy, I'm not sure how this is going to play out. So just make sure that you're coming in locked in, ready to go. And I've even thought that it was, and this sounds crazy, but I've thought that it was possible

that they bring back Darnold and they have a camp competition. And if McCarthy wins it, they trade him to whatever pathetic quarterback team there is, because I promise you there will still be pathetic quarterback teams. I saw Kirk today saying, Oh my, my elbow was hurt during the season. I could still throw great. He's like, Kirk, Kirk, he knows, buddy, there's no quarterbacks out there. He knows someone's calling. He's letting them know it's going to be healed. See? Oh yeah. I'll be good to go. He's got to do it. What was it? The tennis, the tennis court video last year he was shown that his achilles was okay like oh that was timed well right before free agency big brain he is a wizard he is a mastermind and his agent as well but that not the point i

think that this is not resolved and if you're mccarthy what you're trying to say is that you've probably been prepared by kevin o'connell for lots of different outcomes here, because there are not just one Avenue tag and trade transition tags been brought up. And maybe you can help me explain that to the audience as an agent, the transition tag. But when it comes to this, even the insiders, the Pellicero's, the followers, they're all kind of saying, we don't really have an answer yet from the team which way they're going to go. So McCarthy himself may not have this answer yet. Folks, I'm trying a new thing in order to stop going to fast food restaurants

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Yeah. I don't think he does either. You know, I think that he, and it's smart not to give him an answer, right? Don't, don't let him go out and say something that's going to make a ton of questions for the organization, right? You want to give him enough information that he feels informed, but you also want to protect the organization above all. And I think that's a, that's a message from Ziggy on down of like, you will not put this organization in peril for something you say in the media so we just aren't going to share certain things and you're exactly right the timing of all this with the sam darnold thing will come to a head at the combine right free agency starts in march it starts in indy right

and everyone knows that every meeting at the combine is hey i have a free agent this year what would you think right like and that's all like and so i promise you sam donald's agent first meeting day one of the combine will be with the minnesota vikings and what's your plan what are you thinking and will you let me right and that's a great thing he's a free agent so he doesn't need permission from the vikings to go out and shop right and so there's two school of thoughts if i'm sam donald's agent one very first there's two school of thoughts if I'm Sam Darnold's agent. One, very first meeting, right? What are your thoughts? Or I'm not meeting with them until the very last day

and then I'm showing up with like, here's what I'm hearing. Here's what I have, right? Wrong or indifferent? Is it a bluff? Is it not? Here's what I have in front of me. What are you guys going to do?

The Vikings have to make a decision by March 17th, I think it is, of figuring out free agency-wise or not. And man, I'm fascinated of how they're going to try and string this thing together. Because after we got done with our podcast last week, I was doing it and my partners were around me as I was saying it. And it prompted us into like an hour-long discussion of what would we do as Sam Darnold's agents. And it was a pretty fun thought experiment to go through and how we would come down to it. But so much is dependent on what the Minnesota Vikings want to do with him. What is it?

The fourth is the franchise tag deadline, which I think will show their cards as if they're going to tag him. But that does not tell us if they're going to trade him or not. After the agency begins on the 10th right and i think that as far as tagging him that has to be something that they do almost no matter what it's really just how you tag him if you transition tag him it's less money so where you'd be more comfortable with okay nobody comes in with an offer but if someone comes in with an offer, they can just have him and not have to give you compensation. Unlike the, what is it? The non-exclusive, which is what most people do, but you get two first round draft picks. Well, no, one's going to give up two first round draft

picks for Sam Darnold. So the transition tag does make some sense as a possibility, but I would love to know. I mean, you said that you and your partners were having this conversation. be like, we're not paying that. Like, here's the tag. But if you can go out there and actually find, hey, this is where his market is right now, right? This is where we think between this number and this number from all our meetings at the combine, all the teams that we've had,

and you usually bolster that second number up a little bit, right? And you say, this is where his market's at. Is this where you see him, right. Is this where you see him, right? Is this where you see him? And if that's the case, and if they agree, then you go great extension time, right? If they don't agree, then you're really going, okay, then I'm going to force you to tag me. And then we're going to, and then we'll just be with you guys forever. Right. But I think that the way that they need to go about it for the Vikings wise, you know, and this is where

Chris was great. He was saying, you need to force their hand to explain what the next two years look like, right? You need to really not just get, Hey, what's 2025 plan. You need to say, Hey, Rob Brzezinski, Kwesi KOC tell me the plan for 2025 through 2027, right? What is your plan? Cause that will be very telling of the dollar amount in which they want to pay Sam Darnold.

If it is just a truly rent-a-year quarterback again, right, then you say, okay, then you must pay me my $40 million guaranteed on the tag. Or if you say, hey, we don't know where JJ's at right now. There's so many things. Then, okay, well, let's talk an extension with some guaranteed money for two years here so that I can have security for my client with the injury protection piece of it and all that. Cause that's why players really don't like the, the franchise tag is you lose injury protection, right? If you're on a multi-year deal and you get hurt

and you don't finish the end of that year, you have injury protection going into the following year. If you're not healthy, if you're on a one-year deal, you don't have that injury protection, right? So that's another big reason why you don't love the franchise tag from the agent's point of view. So let's just do a thought experiment here. And I'll ask everyone to try not to turn off the podcast with rage. If you can just, it's only a thought experiment. It's not real. Let's just say that Mark and Ziggy Wilf said, look, we understand how much you love JJ McCarthy. We love him too. We've seen the Packers sit Jordan Love for a couple of years.

And here's our biggest priority. It's being in this race again next year. And we don't believe with a first time quarterback that we can actually get there. So we want Sam Darnold to be the quarterback. I think that a bit of the conflict from the Vikings perspective is exactly what you laid out, which is if you're the Vikings, here's what you'd love to do. If you're forced by ownership to bring back Darnold, you'd love to sign them to a three year contract for 125 with 70 guaranteed.

And the first year cap hit is nine. And so the next year he is Trey Smith, Tevin Jenkins, all sorts of people. Oh, so dig his wheel. You got everybody. DJ Reed, this is an all-star team, okay? For one year, and then you're going to trade Darnold. But if you're on Sam's side and you represent him, you're like, now, hold on. Where are you trading him? Now, maybe a resolution could be a no-tr trade list that he could give his 20 teams that

he would not be traded to. And it's a limited no trade clause that allows him to say, okay, I don't mind being traded at the end of this thing because you want to go to McCarthy. However, I want to have some control about where I'm traded. That to me is about the closest thing you could get to a resolution. Otherwise I'm saying, no, if you guys are going to play my guy for one year and trade him, then of course I'm not just going to agree to that and end up in Cleveland. Exactly. Right. You want to have some power and that's the issue right now is Sam doesn't have a ton of power right now. The power he has is if you don't want

a franchise tag me because it's too expensive, I'll just walk. I'll just go to free agency. Right. And I don't think the Vikings want to lose him for nothing. You can't just lose Sam Darnold because you brought him into quarterback rehabilitation. You brought him all the way through the 12 steps and maybe he stumbled on step 12, but you still can get something out of him based off of the market of it's not a good quarterback market from a free agency standpoint and from a draft standpoint. So there's going to be teams that 100% are looking for a starting quarterback. If you're the Vikings and you have full faith in JJ, get a second round pick out of them. Be willing to do

that because also I think that's important. If you franchise tag him and you trade him before the season, you incur zero amount of that on the cap, right? That's a big piece of this. If you extend him, that signing bonus hits the cap, right? That is part of the cap hit. So if you want to save as much money as possible and also get the most value out of Sam Darnold, the best route to go is put a freaking franchise tag on him, make a quarterback competition through camp. If JJ wins it you trade him if sam darnold wins it then you keep it right and that's the way you rent a quarterback for a year but i don't think that in his camp i don't think that an extension with the with the with

the intention to be a one-year rent a quarterback thing it just doesn't make sense for sam and his team now the trouble with trying to franchise tag him. And this is again, only in a world where the ownership has demanded that Darnold remain the quarterback is if you have this quarterback competition in camp and McCarthy weighs 225 and he looks great. And you're like, this isn't JJ McCarthy. This is John Elway folks. So we want to move on from Sam Darnold and hope the Raiders have Mac Jones as their quarterback. They still have to have $40 million in cap space to make that acquisition, or they have to have ownership that's willing to restructure contracts and move money and put cash on the

table. And this is what's always been good about the Vikings ownership, but not every owner is like this to say, all right, we're going to convert this to a bonus, but that means out of your wallet onto the table and into that player's hands, which not everyone's willing to do. So you could get caught holding the bag where if you get to the end of camp and every team's like, yeah, you know, we either don't want to do it for Darnold or we just don't have the cap space and we don't want to make it, then you're going to stick with Mac Jones and the Vikings end up with a $40 million backup quarterback and a bunch of contracts from free agents that they've pushed down the road. And so there is also this other scenario where the ownership says, no, we want Darnold to play

no matter what 2025, we want to run it back. We think we can compete for a Superbowl with two guards and everything else. The same. Okay. That's great. Maybe they're guard guy. Like I always make fun of guard guy on the show because for the last nine years of me covering this team, there's been a lot of discussion about the guard position. But if maybe if they think, oh, just a little better pass protection and we're right there,

right? But if maybe if they think, oh, just a little better pass protection and we're right there, right? Then what if McCarthy is better in camp, but KOC feels like he's got to stick with Sam Darnold because that was the edict from ownership. And this is where the communication between the front office coaches and the ownership, what Kweisi Adafo Mensah has been good at from day one is selling a vision for this team. His vision for this team was a rookie quarterback. Rookie quarterback contract.

I spend all your money in the free agent and get all the players. That was his deal from day one. And I've got to think that he still wants that to be executed pretty badly here. Yeah, I think so too, because that was the long-term vision, right? And that goes back to, are you willing to blow up the long-term vision off of an 18 game performance, 19 game performance by Sam Darnold? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. And only the Vikings do know the answer to that. I just worry that they're going to make the same mistake they did with Kirk Cousins where Sam Darnold has a little bit of the grass isn't greener with JJ McCarthy feel to it and they're

going okay well we know what we have with Sam are we willing to bet that JJ is going to be equal to that or not and ultimately what it comes down to again from ownership is butts in the seats right now the Vikings fan base is incredible. You're always going to have that. But there is this fear of if we move on from Sam and JJ looks like Caleb Williams and we win seven or eight games next year, what's going to happen to the community? What questions are going to be asked? And like merch sales, like all that plays a factor in this as well. The good news is, is if you are end up paying Sam Darnold $40 million for the franchise tag, it's not like it was a crazy cap hit compared to

what this year was. Right. And that's the luxury of having the rookie scale quarterback on that piece. Now you don't want to waste that window. And now you're two years into what you thought was going to be a rebuild with a rookie scale quarterback, but it also isn't a giant $150 million looming thing down the road over the top of your head. And this is exactly the point that I've tried to make over the recent weeks since the end of the season is I am a lot less afraid of Sam Darnold being the quarterback next year than I think 98% of society because number one, I mean, they do have a more difficult schedule. I'm going to keep bringing this up because if you look at that thing, it's a beast grinder and you never really know. But when you start looking at it and go, okay, well the North, the NFC East and the AFC North,

I mean, this is just a lot of football teams that are good every single year. Philly's not falling off. Washington's getting stronger. Pittsburgh will still be tough in Pittsburgh. The Ravens, they're going to be good. I promise you the Ravens will be good next year. So there's a lot of... Joe Burrow's not going anywhere. That's right.

That's right. Cincinnati changed DCs. They're going to put money into their defense. Burrow's still an elite quarterback. It's just not getting easier in the, uh, in the schedule standpoint. And also from a physical perspective, if I am them, I want to make sure JJ McCarthy is fully ready physically to play 17 NFL games, a battle of attrition for 17 games before I put them out there. And that's why, because I think that this rookie

contract thing still very much exists, even if he doesn't play his first two years, that gives you two full years of it, but also look at the way contracts are structured around the league. I promise you, it gives you more like four years of it. When you look at even a Trevor Lawrence extension, a Justin Herbert extension, a Jalen Hurts extension. It's always more than that, that you can stretch it out. So now if we're talking three, four years of the ability to spend on free agents, work around that rookie deal, that that's a long time. Well, everybody's still in their prime, their Grenards, the Derrissaws, the Jeffersons and all that to have legitimate shots at winning the Superbowl. So I'm less worried about it, but I would actually, you know what I'd be worried

about is if Sam Darnold came out and didn't play well, and then it just turns into a circus because I've been watching back the 2010 season. I don't know how familiar you are with that. I know. I don't know. What else am I doing? So it just with Favre coming back that year after oh nine, it just became a circus and things went wrong. And Sidney Rice didn't get surgery until the last minute. And he was the top receiver and all this stuff, you know, well, I don't have to tell you about a team that becomes a circus and in 2016 around, right around sort of a, a quarterback trade and all the things that were happening there. That's because then you may have franchise tag, Darnold spent all that money

and then have it not go the way you thought it in your mind. Oh, we just repeat everything and do a little bit better at guard. And then that's all works. And if you go eight and nine, anyway, then you just wasted everybody's time. And I think that's the, that should be the number one concern about just bringing him back is if it doesn't go the same way that it did this year. A hundred percent. I'm with you. Like, I don't think that if Sam Darnold is a quarterback of the Vikings next year, that

Sam's going to be the guy the last two weeks, the entire year, he showed growth this year. I think he's still going to be a very competitive quarterback for whatever team he plays for next year if it's the Vikings I'm not concerned but you're absolutely right if you pay a guy 40 million dollars you almost expect more out of him than what he was last year for 10 million dollars it's a lot to ask Sam to repeat what he did this year it's a lot to ask any quarterback to repeat and all I mean that's like asking Joe Burrow like you're going to go do repeat what he did this year. It's a lot to ask any quarterback to repeat and all. I mean, that's like asking Joe Burrow, like you're going to go do exactly what you did this year again next year, right, and lead in touchdowns and yards.

Like it's just not a reality. But the problem is the public perception is when you pay a guy a certain amount of money, you expect him to elevate his game, right? And that's just not reality of the NFL. A guy gets paid because he's really good at the position. That doesn't just magically wave a wand and bibbidi-bobbidi-boo. Now you're all of a sudden you're John Elway again. It doesn't work like that. And we have to understand that from our perspective is we stole Sam Darnold for $10 million this year.

That was a steal. It's a great signing, great value, got a lot out of him. If we pay him 40, that doesn't mean he's going to be Josh Allen next year it just doesn't he is who he is we just have to understand that there's going to be a roller coaster with Sam Darnold I don't think he's ever going to be the steady Eddie pillar of truth we're good to go he's not going to throw interceptions that's just not the case with him but that's not the case with 90% of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL. You just have to understand that going forward. Okay. What if I told you that they got two guards now? Hey, I'm just saying if they went up, if they brought Darnold back and they did build an elite offensive line, cause this was patchwork. I mean, this was Dalton rise. They're being thrown

in there halfway through the season. I think Garrett Bradbury is a better fit for another team. I will maintain that he's a quality starting center, but I think for a deep drop back, triple quadruple move to the wide receiver, 30 yards down the field, that's hard for him. And left guard was an experiment that failed another tackle being moved to guard. Didn't work out. Trey Smith and Tevin Jenkins arrive on campus at TCO performance center. Christian Darisaw comes back a hundred percent healthy. Is Sam Darnold just as good? Is he better?

Can they run better? Can they be better? Like there has to be some thought process and discussion in the room of like, if we had protected him against the Rams, do we just win? Like there are receivers down the field. Do if we could run the ball and average 4.8 yards per carry and run on third and two, do we just have a top five offense? Because, and I think that the regression is coming in the form of the schedule. And also you hit that many deep shots down the field. You're probably not doing it again. And that's, that's Oh nine to 2010 Favre, by the way. And, but you could see them talking themselves into it.

Where do you think Kevin O'Connell stands on that? Like, do you think Kevin O'Connell as a head coach would be leaning toward the devil? I know. And I just need to fix these things to make him better or the draft pick I don't know who I can spend more money on the overall roster on the defensive side and really stack this thing up around but I've got to do a lot of work because I have to revamp the offense again for a whole new quarterback honestly I think it's I think it's the second part there I think that with the contract extension now,

he has a long-term view of this. If they didn't have his extension and he was coaching for his job, very different of I need to win right now. Brian Dable, hey, we're going to keep you one more year, then you're definitely going, I'm not trying to change too much here. I'm trying to stay in my lane. But with the contract extension

and then giving him the keys to the car and saying, Hey, build this, the thing you weigh, you want to go and be with it. I think he leans more towards the, Hey, let's get our rookie in here. Let's build the team up around the, the Jeffersons and the Addison's and bolster that offensive line, get a good running back in here, like get the run game, get going, and allow J.J. McCarthy to develop with really good players around him and have that be the vision for the next three, four years instead of just this tunnel vision on what are we doing in 2025, right? Because if you get yourself in tunnel vision, you make mistakes. And you make mistakes that come back and haunt you two and a half,

three years from now when you're going for 40 million over the cap and now we have to cut one of our really good players because we just can't afford him right that that's the piece that you kind of run into here and so i think he's going to lean with the let's get some guards let's get the run game let's continue to keep our good talent and if he had his druthers i think he's probably going to jj mccarthy okay before we get to what we originally wanted to talk about is a game of talk me into so we uh we're gonna do an abridged version of that but what's uh after hearing jj mccarthy talk every new piece of information comes with me asking whoever's on the show with me what's the percentage chance

that sam darnold's the quarterback or jj JJ McCarthy? I honestly give it a 50, 50 shot. I really do. And, and so much of it comes down to this last 30 minutes of discussion of, is it a tunnel vision approach of the Wilfs looked at KOC and said, I want to be playing in the Superbowl next year, or is it the long-term approach of let's build it so that we can build a

Kansas city type dynasty for 26, 27, 28, 28, 29, right? It, you have to think long-term in the NFL.

You have to. And so I really think that I don't know which way that they lean, but I do think it's a 50, 50 shot on, are we trying to win right now? Are we trying to build for the future? Okay. Uh, I am at 60 40 jj

mccarthy is the quarterback but only 60 40 and you know i guess everybody can leave in the comment section where they are and that's that's not what you want but what you think as far as percentage goes and yes don't know with your heart go with your head right go with your head don't go with your heart but with your head i mean i Go with your head. Don't go with your heart, but with your head. I mean, I think, well, I think most people would be leaning heavily toward McCarthy being the quarterback. Those comments don't change my mind, but they more sort of solidify me in I'm leaning toward it, but I'm not a hundred percent.

It kind of reminds me of last year where we, we listened to O'Connell do these interviews about Kirk. And with every interview, it was like, I think that he wants Kirk to sign a deal that's not as good for Kirk as Atlanta is going to give him. And that's what it sounds like he's saying. And how's that going to play out? But I was probably only 60% on Kirk leaving 60, 70% at this time last year. So I think more information will present itself and kind of give us a closer idea of the answer. And a month from now, we will get a little more definitive stuff on the

franchise tag. We also are not, there's one more key factor here that we haven't really played into, which is what does Sam Darnold want, right? Does Sam Darnold want to go to the Raiders or is he willing to say, you know what? I love Minnesota. I love KOC. I love throwing to the best wide receiver in the world. I love what's going on here. Like I'm willing to work with you guys to stay here, right? You never know from a player's perspective where their brain's at. And that's a, that's a key factor here of his Sam going to turn to his agents and go, I want money, right? And I want my money now because I deserve that. And you never know when I'm going to play like this again.

Or is he looking long-term of, I want to stay in Minnesota. I understand JJ's the guy, but I want to stay here and play for this team one more year, whatever it is. That's a factor that everyone has to guess at because we all won't know unless we're sitting in that meeting with Sam Darnold. Well, now I have to follow up on that. What do you think Sam Darnold wants? I honestly think Sam wants his bag and I don't blame him. I don't blame him. You were a first

round pick, right? You were supposed to be the guy. It never panned out. And now you have the chance to go make the generational type money. I mean, I get it. You made a ton of money being drafted in the first, but now you're talking about 40 a year, right? That's twice what you made as your rookie contract in one year. You've got to make money while you can in this league because you never know when the opportunity is going to arise again. I I'd like to quote a great philosopher in answering this question. It's not about the dollars. That's what the dollars represent. Kirk cousins. Yes,

sir. It was. And I know Kirk was quoting somebody else that told them that it doesn't matter. Kirk said it. And it was something that hit so hard for me about so many things actually in your life. It's about like,

even with friendships you have, it's like somebody doesn't show up to a, an event you're having. It's like, it's not about the fact that you couldn't come. It's about the fact that you know, showed or something like you can really apply this to a lot of stuff, but it's not about the dollars. It's what the dollars represent. A franchise tag for Sam Darnold represents. We like you, but you know, this other guy, he's really what we actually want. And if I'm Sam Darnold, I just don't want that.

I just do not want to play in a world where every bad game I have over 17, every quarterback's going to have bad games. He'll probably have five that I get boot off the field every single time we go three and out. And I hear in the, the chance in the stands, JJ, JJ, like some, some people suggested that I want Darnold back. Like that's what i want as if i have like a care for what it doesn't impact me at all i just i'll live my life the same way so i don't want anything uh i wanted to go to philly and cover a playoff game again so i did want that but anyway i uh but here's what i do want for sam not to get boot off the field. Every time he has a bad three and out or an interception, or I think it would be a very uncomfortable situation with the fans because

they are so sold on JJ McCarthy that you're going to get at every turn, every bad half where they don't score JJ, JJ, people want McCarthy. They just don't want Sam Darnold. And that has to matter to him. I'm not wanted here. If I go to the Raiders, let's say they tag and trade, and then he signs an extension there. That means that Pete Carroll, one of the best coaches in NFL history,

said, I want Sam Darnold as my guy for the next three years. He is our franchise quarterback. I am appreciated. And the fans are going to be happy to see me because they've been watching Aiden O'Connell play. And there's gotta be real value in that. I agree. I'm completely with you that there is the player doesn't want to always be looking over their shoulder. And when you're on a franchise tag, you have no future security in that state. And you know, the young gun sitting behind you, you're constantly looking over your shoulder. You're hearing it all the time. And I mean,

it's, we'll talk about it every week. Every media member will talk about it every week. It becomes the focal point. Kevin O'Connell has to talk about it every single week at the podium. Hey, is there any thoughts of going to JJ this week after a three point loss for Sam Darnold through three interceptions, right? There's so much of that that comes with it, that a long-term extension pretty much eliminates a lot of those conversations for the most part, but this franchise tag leaves it open to interpretation the entire year.

I'm not sure that any extension leaves it open with the fans. I mean, it does. You're right. As far as the franchise go where they say, Hey, he's our guy or whatever, but you'd have to sign a five-year deal for 50 million a year to actually convince someone that that was really the case. And if he, if they were four and three and he has a three interception game, we're going into that post game saying, is it time to play JJ McCarthy? I guarantee you if he signs a three-year deal, I promise you we will do that.

So, and the fans will boom off the field and there'll be chanting JJ. And so I think if you're him that there's almost no contract you could sign with the Vikings where that does not happen. That is at all reasonable. So for me, I would want, if I'm Darnold to say, tag and trade me, sign and trade me, whatever you want to do. I want to be the giants quarterback. I actually kind of would,

if I was him stable neighbors, they've got some stuff to work with there. I would actually think that that would be a good location for him. So that, I don't know if he can go back to MetLife. Yeah. Regardless, regardless of he's wearing blue.

I don't think he can go back to that stadium. That's true. Although if you had the choice, if you're him, I would rather go where Malik neighbors is and just be like, Hey, this reminds me of another receiver. We,

I mean, this guy made some pretty bad quarterbacks look good in some games this year. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, all of this is going to play out over the next month, but there are so many moving parts to it.

It's what makes it a fascinating decision for the Vikings. So a real quick, rapid fire. Talk me into, okay. I want you to talk me into the Vikings rather than staying sort of the path, doing something NBA style of a,

of a trade. And it doesn't have to be miles Garrett, a trade where we all go, Whoa, the Vikings just did. Huh? Not trade away your best player, like Luca Donchic for not a very good return and ruin the future of your

franchise, but like something that would actually make sense. Talk me into them instead of just staying in the course and sign into free agents, particularly at the guard position, uh uh make it some big move you know i think the biggest move that they could make would be to trade one of the past rushers that they got last year right to maybe a van ginkle or maybe even granard? If you're talking blockbuster because they have so much faith in Dallas Turner that you do go and you trade for a Miles Garrett, for a Aiden Hutchinson, for that type of player,

right? And you can name it TJ Watt, right? Go down the name for like the impact edge, right? To trade one for the impact edge plus draft picks, right? Because we need draft picks in a major way right i think we have four right now for next year it's not enough to build a future on it just isn't you you need five to seven draft picks every single year because especially in that day two early day three range where you can get really good value add for those players so i think that

if you're going to talk me if i'm going to talk you into it, it's going to be, you're going to have to move one of your elite defensive edge players. Cause there's always a need for edge. You're not getting rid of your tackles, right? There's always need for edge, but you've got to get some draft pick capital return. Yeah. Grenard would be untouchable to me, his age, his production, just like you've got one of those guys.

He's not quite Aiden Hutchinson or miles Garrettrett but if you're talking about if you're talking about there's like a three guy bosa hutchinson garrett first tier this is tier 1b that's where grinard is that's a pretty great place to live van ginkle is interesting because he just like he's fantastic is he going to repeat this last year that would be very hard to do. Double digit sacks, a couple of pick sixes, second team, all pro. If you're going to offer somebody up, it's him. But there's another part of that equation that you, you went a different direction. I thought you were going to go, would you trade Dallas Turner? If somebody came and asked, I think is his, his values too low. Like you're not going

to get the right value. Plus you spent so much for him. It would be suspicious if someone got the phone call for whatever other team. And then what we're thinking about moving turn, he'd be like, huh? Now, wait a minute. Why? You know, like what's going on there that you're going to move him. But if he was a toss into a miles Garrett trade to get you over the hump, I would have to consider it. Yeah. I mean, if,

if, and that was going to be my first talk me into with you was the Vikings trade for miles Garrett, right? Talk me into that. They sell their soul that, Hey, miles Garrett could be the linchpin that we need next to Garnard or

Ginkle, whoever, like, what does that look like? And what were you, what are you willing to give up? Okay. If you were the Browns, let me, let me try this on you. Put it on, snuggle into it and see if it fits. There's one team that can offer the Browns a quarterback is the Minnesota Vikings. Let's say that he would agree. They find out he would agree to a three-year deal. Wants to play for Kevin Stefanski.

So you tag and trade Darnold to the Browns along with, let's just say, let's say Dallas Turner. I mean, it's going to have to be a lot. It's like about the top three player in the league that's non-quarterback. And next year's second or something. Now that's a lot to give up for the best player

at his position in the entire NFL. But also if you had Grenard Van Ginkle and miles Garrett, I don't know how anybody in the world blocks you. And then here's Brian Flores being like, you know, I still will blitz actually. Would you do that trade?

If it was Turner, Darnold, and a second rounder from 2026? 100%. I'm 100% doing that. The only issue becomes if you tag and trade him, they have to extend him because of the amount of money they already have in the quarterback room. That's the part that gets sticky with the if they pick

up sam darnold if you're eating 40 million on top of what is it 60 that deshaun's making or whatever it is they would have to get rid of deshaun's contract as part of this first they couldn't do it unless somebody was taking it and then they're giving up draft capital which is why they would want the young player and a draft pick. Right. I mean, that all makes sense if all the pieces moved. I mean, they are in desperate need of a quarterback and that phrase there. And I mean, the fact that Miles Garrett came out publicly and was like, I want out. I was like, oh, that's so sad for Browns fans.

Right. But yeah, I think that that's definitely something that you have to consider. But I also don't know, again, that throws another wrench into the five-year plan of the Minnesota Vikings of if you take on another max player deal, make a contract, you're hampering yourself in other positions again. So I don't know, I don't know if it's as realistic as we all hope it is because of just the implications that it would cause down the road. Well, this is where the rookie quarterback contract for McCarthy would come into that equation. But my concern would be, and I just don't know what to think about this because Garrett's got pretty remarkable health and

every age curve does not apply to the top 1% of 1%. It doesn't apply to Saquon Barkley. It does not apply to Miles Garrett. However, historically guys who have played in the league for this long do not have seven, eight years left to go. I mean, you got your Julius Peppers, Bruce Smith. There's a couple of dudes, Reggie White, but I mean, for the most part, historically you get to 30, your production starts to drift off. Even I saw a chart today of the best of the best, the last 20 years, even Aaron Donald got to 30 years old and it was still unreal, but it wasn't quite the same as the guy's peak. And if he drops off by 10% and he's just really,

really good and not astonishingly good, then you've given up a lot for him. But if you don't believe it in Turner, which I'm not saying they don't, but if you don't, and it's a second round pick and a quarterback you were trading anyway, I'm willing to take the risk that, you know, over the next five years, he might not be the same. I don't know if that's enough to get it done because another team might come with three first round picks and maybe you take that instead but in a draft the think about this though Stefanski has to save his job and in a draft where these quarterbacks I just don't see it as far as being elite prospects with Ward Sanders senior bowl was

bad stop trying to make Jackson Dart happen the senior bowl was I was watching these quarterbacks I was like oh my gosh this is so bad Jackson dart will be drafted in the third round. Okay. Everyone third round, uh, you're in first round. You're looking for franchise quarterbacks, not like he looks okay. Uh, so that, that is something that no other team can offer the Cleveland Browns. And that's what makes it somewhat interesting to me. I want you to, before we close the show, Hey,

the Superbowl is this week. Oh yeah. Well, Patrick Mahomes is doing interviews at the Superbowl. So is Travis Kelsey. I want you to talk me into being really excited that a team won the super bowl excited for one of those teams something captivates you in the moment you get welled up you're so excited because this happened in the super bowl for that team talk me into feeling good about somebody winning it. I've come to rationalize for myself

that I will be excited for Joe Tooney. I will be ecstatic for Joe Tooney, a man that has won Super Bowls in New England. He's won Super Bowls in Kansas City. He got asked to move out to left tackle this year because they were a disaster, picked up without a beat, in fact stabilized the entire position I will be very happy for that man I think it solidifies his gold jacket

I think a chance for him to go down is one of the best to ever do it a guy that's never been in trouble never caused issues off the field been looked at as an all-pro one of the best players in this position and now playing left tackle in the super bowl for the best quarterback for the chance to three pete i will be happy for the kansas city chiefs strictly for joe tooney i don't mind taylor swift just in general like her music is fine doesn't change my life doesn't make me upset and uh people getting mad oh they showed a pretty pop singer celebrating a touchdown oh i'm I'm so angry. Come on. There's a way better things to be mad about in the world. Uh, for me though, that's a joke. Uh, I don't care one way or the other, but greatness, it only comes around every so often.

And when I was a child, Jeremiah, I rooted for the New York Knicks. And you know what MF-er kept ruining all of my dreams of the Knicks winning? That stinking Jordan guy. And at the time, I was really pissed at him. I was like, stop it. Go play baseball. And then the Knicks still didn't win. But you know, as time went on, I let it go.

And I appreciated Jordan for his greatness. And I feel this way even with Tom Brady. As Tom Brady was doing, I was like, ah, this smug, smug Patriots, they're deflating footballs and just look at them, the Patriot way. It's so obnoxious. But then 10 years later, you're like, wow,

that was unbelievable. And I think that if he wins another one, we are talking about just witnessing a sheer level of greatness that we have almost never seen in the history of the nfl and if you don't appreciate that i don't know what you're doing yeah i mean it's kind of the old batman quote like you either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain right when he was taking on brady he was america's favorite person right he's gonna dethrone the king

right death to the king of Tom Brady and now it's just completely flipped if everyone's like I'm tired of seeing this guy win and I'm with you I don't have to like the Chiefs I don't have to love the Chiefs but you have to respect Andy Reid Patrick Mahomes Travis Kelsey what they built Brett Veach has done an amazing job as GM there, bringing the right kind of guys in, retaining talent, not being afraid to let a guy like Tyreek Hill walk out the door because it was what's best for the Chiefs building. So much respect for that organization.

And, yeah, to say when I was a kid, right, to look back and to tell my son, when I was doing Tuesday morning left guard, I watched the Kansas City Chiefs three-peat. I don't know if we'll ever see it again. kid right to look back and to tell my son i when i was doing tuesday morning left guard i watched the kansas city chiefs three pete i don't know if we'll ever see it again i that's so hard to do in today's landscape of the nfl to truly have a three-peat piece to that would be incredible just to be a part of i think i'm gonna i'm gonna float some to you we're only gonna have one show left and then you gotta go full off season mode after that. But for Tuesday morning,

left guard for the year, and then we'll return, but I want to float a new bit here and we'll remember it. Okay. Just called. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. Something that everybody's mad about.

And I'm just gonna say, I'm not mad. And for the super bowl, I want you to give me one. I'll give you mine. It's Tomady calling it right he's the analyst i think he is i don't care that's fine i listened to him in the playoff games and i thought it was all right it's fine i wasn't mad everybody on the line was anything he said was

oh my god brady's so dumb just what an idiot he did what does he know he doesn't know ball oh it's a something's a cliche oh no a broadcaster with a cliche on a football broadcast and he really toned down the like hey you're you're indoors you know you're in a booth he would be early on he was like well i don't know kevin but at the end he would always say like, well, when I was throwing to JR Redmond on the backfield or something, you're like, okay, you know, Kevin Falk retired a long time ago. Uh, but he's got, I think he was really fine in the playoffs. I had no problem with it.

I am, I have no feelings whatsoever. I feel the same way about Taylor Swift's music as I feel about Tom Brady. I just can't get mad at it. So there you go. What are you, what are you not mad at that people are already getting worked up about the Superbowl? Oh, that's a good one.

I like this for a future bid because people are just mad all the time. They are. They hate everything. Everything. And here, real quick, real quick. I just want people have to understand how hard it is to be a color analyst

for a football game. You've done it. It is so hard. And all everybody does at the internet is collinsworth he like thought the safety rotated over but i can see on the replay it's covered too you're like dude you know how fast this thing's moving come on now yeah it's extremely difficult not only that you're trying to make sure like was that 13 was that 14 i don't want to get his name wrong. Right? Like, and you've got the guy in your ear. That's like, no, it was 13. You're like, ah, panic.

Um, gosh, I guess I'm not mad that the two best teams have made it to the Superbowl. Right. Everyone's all Philly and Kansas city. No one wants to see that again. Like, how could we want to watch this again? They're the two best teams in the NFL. They were the most healthy at the right time. They both had one has an unbelievable run game. One has the best quarterback in the world.

I'm not mad that two elite teams are meeting in the NFL, in the, in the Superbowl. Would I have been more excited for the storyline if it was Jaden Daniels versus Patrick Mahomes? Yeah, obviously. But would it have been as good of a game? I don't think so. I think this is going to be a great game because it's two elite football teams battling it out that are familiar with each other.

There's a little bit of bad blood there. Both teams have gotten better in certain positions since the last team that they met in the Super Bowl. I'm not mad that two elite teams have found their way into the Super Bowl again. I like it. Who do you think wins? I think Kansas City wins. I do. I think that they find a way to the Super Bowl again. I like it. Who do you think wins? I think Kansas City wins.

I do. I think that they find a way to three-peat. Spags is going to have an interesting game plan to take away Saquon Barkley. Now I say that. Everyone has tried to take away Saquon Barkley for the last 20 weeks. Hasn't worked.

Can he be the one to do it? I think he might be the only defensive coordinator I would have trust in order to do it. But I do think that Mahomes does Mahomey things and ends up with a three-peat I haven't decided yet I'm a little toward Philly I mean it's but it's not good to pick the lesser quarterback as great as I think Hertz is a great quarterback but I mean is not always historically a very good idea to pick the lesser quarterback but they have the better team the more stack team so yeah the kansas city has a better coach most important positions kansas city's better i don't know i'll just for the d-line

i mean that's that's the one thing i mean and that's the other piece is the drastic difference in the defensive philosophies yeah right mick fangio keep everything in front of us rush for let those dudes just figure it out and then spags is the crazy haired, mad scientist. It's like, if we bring the corner and then it's all going to be right. He's like the water boy coach where he's like drawing it on the board. He's like, what was I saying? Right. So it's just, it's going to be fascinating to see which scheme ends up being the right

one. I love the coaching matchup overall. And you are right. Two best teams. They deserve to be there. Jeremiah Searles can't wait to break down the super bowl with you and much more next week thank you for your time sir and we'll catch y'all later football football