Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jeremiah Sirles breaks down Vikings O-line acquisitions and Ed Ingram trade

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by former Vikings lineman Jeremiah Sirles to discuss the team's acquisition of Ryan Kelly and Will Fries, as well as the trade that sent Ed Ingram to Houston.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here and look who is back. Former Minnesota Viking and co-host of Tuesday morning left guard all season long. Look, if they're going to sign offensive linemen, we're not going to keep you in the shadows. Jeremiah Searles, what is going on my friend? How are you? It's, it's arguably the best week of the NFL season, right? I mean, obviously you've got Superbowl week, you have playoffs, you have that, but free agency week is just so much fun because you've got the carousel of players going everywhere.

You've got the speculation of who's going to make what. And then it's just the numbers are just always so unbelievable to look at and go, that guy just made $88 million. Or Josh Allen just made $350 million to write like nine letters of his name. It's just such a fun week. I love free agency so much. And one of these days, one I know guys, that's the piece of it. That's the piece of it, dude. I'm

looking at this going, man, how much fun is this going to be in a year or two when I get to make the call and be like, Hey, we used to agree due terms four years 120 million. Thanks, bud. Like that's the stuff I can't that's why I got into this job. Right? This stuff's fun. But the negotiations that go on in free agency, I got a little piece of it this year with our free agent from a linebackers perspective, but I can't wait to be in the conversation with big money type stuff like this. I just want to make sure that when the big wigs tweeted out, they tweet contract negotiated

by former Minnesota Viking, Jeremiah Searle. It's all I asked. They're doing it for other agents now. Oh yeah. That's all I ask is that they give you your full due from player to a successful agent. And maybe, maybe look, if they drop a link to the pod, I mean, you can negotiate these things. It won't be, it won't be former Minnesota Viking.

It will be Jeremiah Searle's agent cohost of Tuesday morning left guard. Maybe, hey, maybe you could be my mole. Maybe I'll let, maybe I'll, maybe I'll leak it to you and you can be the big wig because those dudes, they live for this week. I mean, when Twitter was broken on the first day of free agency, they were all panicking, right? I mean, Ian and Michelle, not Michelle. It's Ian Schefter and Schultz.

Those are the three that I know that like they would all love to fight each other, right? But those dudes, when Twitter was down, they were pure panic mode. The way that it goes so fast to those guys, I don't even know if you'd have time to leak it to me, but that's a whole other conversation. And that's not usually the pool that I swim in as far as reporters. But let's talk about these offensive linemen, Jeremiah,

because I think that this approach is interesting. The way that I have phrased it is basically if someone gave you a $200 gift card to the mall, you go and you're looking at a pair of gloves and going, well, that's not really worth that. But then, you know, my hands are cold and I got a gift card. That's kind of how it is for shopping when you have so much cap space. And I think the Vikings really took full advantage of that approach in the trenches.

So why don't we start with the lineman and begin with Ryan Kelly. This decision, I think if it was Ryan Kelly a couple of years ago, healthy would be, whoa, they just got a premier top three to five center in the league. His numbers are still good. There's injuries there. I think what this tells

us is just how badly they wanted to upgrade from Garrett Bradbury at center. And I know we went through this, but looking at the other center options, there just weren't many. There were, there were very few. I remember saying like when people would ask, well, they replaced Bradbury. And my thought was with who though? And I guess we got our answer with a veteran who is very much proven in the league. Yeah. Cause I agree with you. You looked at the center position in free agency and it was Dalman and then I don't know who, I mean, even the, the deal for, oh gosh, I'm escaping. He was a starting center for the Green Bay Packers last year.

Not a very good deal. Not a great deal. And that was surprising to me too, but I was surprised that that was the first domino to fall. You look at the interior needs of the offensive line and I felt like Bradbury was the best of the group in the interior piece when you go Brandle, Ed Ingram, Dalton Reisner, Bradbury. So when that was the first domino to fall,

I had a little bit of a panic of like, oh no, is that all we're gonna do to fix this? Like, we just feel like we just replace Bradbury, we'll be okay. So that one surprised me and yeah, I mean, I didn't really think of Kelly because he has been in the league so long. He has been pretty beat up in that piece there,

but I mean, those years when Jonathan Taylor was in his prime running and gunning going through and then the command that he's had that offensive line really since like Saturday left, it feels like he has been such a staple in this league. He's going to come in and steady that room, right? Not just from a physical standpoint, but from a leadership standpoint, from a guy that's been around a lot of football played in a lot of different stadiums played in a

lot of different schemes, he'ss played in a lot of different schemes. He's going to come in and be able to just command whatever KOC throws on his plate, which if you're going to have a rookie quarterback makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that Ryan Kelly, if he's healthy, is not a small upgrade from Bradbury pass blocking wise. He's an enormous upgrade. We are talking about one of the best

pass protecting centers in the NFL over the last 10 years and Brad Berry last year. The thing was midway through the season. We've gone through this a bunch of times with him where midway through the season. We're saying like you know what? He's playing pretty well and his

numbers are better than they were. And then you get toward the end of the season and you get banged up or you lose weight as you go along in the season. And it just slid kind of off the face of the earth from a numbers perspective toward the end of the year. And I think that's where maybe some of the frustration came from KOC and bringing that up with the interior offensive line was just, you weren't getting even

average play out of him toward the end of the season. And once with him, you're not even approaching average. Then you're talking about an offense that requires the quarterback to sit back there, let things develop a league that is just running freak shows out there at DT paying him $26 million a year for a guy who played 500 snaps. I mean, there's just a lot a lot going on. Oh, we have a trade as we're doing.

Oh, about this. We actually get breaking news. We get and it's offensive lineman news, but it's not that exciting. Ed Ingram is being traded to the Houston Texans. So, well, they did just get rid of their entire offensive line. So they needed to do something. Yeah, they have no idea what they're doing. What they get for them. Do we know? We do not have that yet.

So I imagine as we go along, at least three firsts. I mean, at minimum, right? Maybe even maybe some cash, too. I think when the trade compensation isn't part of the original tweet, we know it's not going to be all that all that overwhelming. But this will work our way over there to right guard. Uh, but just to stay with the Ryan Kelly thing, uh, last year, out of all centers that were at least part-time centers,

Garrett Bradbury was 40th out of 44 in pass blocking and Ryan Kelly was in the top 10. I mean, you're talking about eliminating 10, 15, 20 pressures over a season, which is a lot. And we know the numbers when quarterbacks are clean, they're just a lot better at football. So I like it from that angle. And I have major concerns about the age and the injury history at Will fries. Hold up real quick before I move to will, I do think there's some really talented interior depth in this year's draft class. I think this is a really good opportunity for early day three to find yourself a good

interior guy that's not ready to start, but ready to develop and learn. And there's not a better guy to learn from than behind Kelly. Learn from him, develop under him, be able to spot start in times this year when he is dinged up and then in two years or maybe even a year hand him the reins and say, let's go. I think that's probably more of the long-term vision with the Kelly signing with knowing that there's gonna be some really good value late day three of the interior offensive line play. And they do have a backup who they really like in Michael Juergens, who they drafted last year. And remember Juergens was on the 53 and active on some game days over Dan

Feeney, who was a veteran. Uh, they also have Walter Rouse, who I think they're going to develop and move over to guard who has a really good athletic profile and is a past protector. So they have some of that already. And I think veteran offensive lineman can help bring along guys, maybe even more than almost any other position. So a good point. Will fries is one where when you look at the initial price, you go, that's a lot of dollar

bills for a guy who's been in the, I would say third tier from the best of the absolute best to above average starters. To me, he is a solid above average starter, but not somebody who's making pro bowls, not someone who you're designing your offense to run behind that kind of thing. Is it too much? Are we not caring about the price? And what do you see in Will Fry's game?

Yeah, it's one of those things. It was the price for this year's free agency and every free agency is different and for Vikings fans that are looking at this number going, oh my It was the price for this year's free agency. And every free agency is different. And for Vikings fans that are looking at this number going, oh my gosh, this number is so large. That's what free agency is. You get what's available. It's not, oh, well, we get to pick the best guard

and who we want in the NFL and then pay them all that money. No, you get your pick of what's available. And Will Fries was what was part of best of available, right? I think he's a better fit for this scheme than a guy like Banks, who went for 77 over to Green Bay. He's a good player. He's limited slightly athletically from what he can do from that standpoint. But he stabilizes a position that has been a train wreck for three years. And I don't know if you can put a price on that for the Viking standpoint of what they've watched at that position now, tried to fix through the draft, didn't work, tried to bring in a veteran, didn't really work.

They're just tired of dealing with it and they're just tired of talking about it. So you pay what's available and you go and you get him. And there's even part of it that thinks that the Kelly signing was just enough to push his guy over the edge to, Hey, I'm here now too. We can like live together and hang out. Right. That could have played a factor in this too. I like the signing. I think it's an upgrade from what we had.

Time will tell if the price is value or low value, high value, whatever it is. But again, it's what you have to pay for him. He only really truly had five outstanding games. 2023 was average. He was okay. I felt like he had a very good five games in 24. I actually went back and rewatched all those games after the signing back.

Okay, what are we actually getting? Very solid, very physical, right? Very good technician wise. I think Tony Sperano Jr. who's the O-line coach for the Colts did a really good job with what he had there with guys getting dinged all year and him playing. So I think it is an immediate upgrade. I think it's a little high on the price point, but you do what you got to do,

because after him, there was nothing like after day one, when they when they didn't sign a guard, it was Will Fries or bust because there was really nothing behind him besides maybe MacKay Bekton, who's still sitting out there. The reason that I like it is because you people, you guards. What you often do is get better with age because it's such a technical position. And you mentioned his technical prowess last year when watching him.

And a lot of times you have players who, when they start off, are drinking out of a fire hose and the game is so fast and it's so tough that for the first couple years, it is a really difficult ride. And then it clicks in. And usually that's year three, year four. And then we started to see it from him in year four and really year three. I mean, he had a good 20, 23, but really started to see a click in. And I think what the Vikings are betting on is this history of offensive

linemen who have some of their best years in age 28, 29, even 30 to 31. It ages differently than a lot of other different positions. And to sign him to a five year contract was really good for them to solidify that, not just for a patch it over. It's going to be fine. But if you get an ascending player on a five year contract, and we're three years into this and Will Fries has been really good, then you're going to feel like, oh, well, that's like half of what, you know, the other guys are getting at this point, sort of like Jonathan Grenard and it's, you know, expanding player, improving player who we went.

Well, he was kind of a part timer with the Texans and then took another step and now 22 million looks genius. I think that that's a good economic play, even if the average annual value, uh, right off the bat has a little bit of sticker shock. So I'm seeing the return for adding. You want to take a guess? Uh, it's 20, 26, 6th, 20, 26, 6th. You nailed it. 20, 26, 6th round pick for ed Ingram. I'm going to go ahead and say that that's a pretty good return. Here's so we both agree. Hey, will fries long-term guard, lock them in going to be there for a long time. That's a good deal for them. But let's just circle back since Ed Ingram was just traded and ask what it what happened with that Ingram. It just never seemed to take that step that we were just talking about.

We drafted an athlete that played offensive line. In my opinion, that's what happens. And a lot of times, that is something that teams can get caught with in this pre-draft process of, man, look at this guy's testing numbers, look at all that. He was never, in my opinion, a physical prowess, even in college. He wasn't this walk in the room, Oh my gosh, look at the size of this dude, he's's gonna run right through you. You're never gonna get through him. He was a credible athlete that tested pretty well and was able to run around. And that got exposed. And once that gets exposed in the NFL, that's a really hard thing to fix. You can fix some limited athleticism, like a Will Fries, with really good technique and fundamentals. Hey, I got the size, got the strength, got the ability. Now teach me how to use all this properly. When you get, even this happened with Bradbury a little bit, when it's the tapes out on you and the answer is, you can't really stop him from going

through you. That's a really hard thing to overcome because like you said, 24, 25, 26, you're not going to get incrementally stronger. I mean, you're going to get stronger, but you're not going to take huge jumps like you did from 18 to 22. And that was really always the issue with him is he felt like he always kind of got outmuscled. He got displaced at the line of scrimmage. He never really was able to dent a defensive tackle on a single block. And then once guys realized they were just going to go through them, he started getting into this lunge game where when guys run through you, run through, you run through, you start thinking, I got to stop this guy. So I'm going to use my head to stop him. Boop boop over the top.

Now there's the quick beats, the quick sacks, the quick hurries, all those things. So it was just kind of this combination of he was never truly big enough to be a starting offensive lineman in the NFL, unfortunately. The way I saw it was that he could have been good with his talent, that he had a physical nature to him. And you saw that sometimes when he would win in the in the in the run game. But I think M E's, the mental errors were the thing that really never got better,

which was, oh, there's a blitz. Oh, there's a stun. Oh, there's a twist. Oh, there's a whatever. And it just here's how you're supposed to get to the second level. And this happened all the time with Brian O'Neill, you two together, or you with Garrett Bradbury. Now, when you get there, you take the linebacker and you take the, you know, whatever. And there would be so many mistakes with that, that as you know, I've learned a lot from you over the years of what to look for on the tape for offensive lineman. And there's a lot of times where you're like, I don't know exactly what happened, but I'm guessing that that wasn't how it was supposed to be. And it looks like it was his fault. And there was just way too much of that.

And if you're the coaches, that's one where at year three, if you're still making the same mental errors as year one, and then you have the matador issue, which is that everybody knew he's just gonna charge at us and we can go right by him. And then you had the fast losses. And to me, that's what really defines being bad at that position to me is if you

have a Dalton Reisner pass blocking and yeah, Jeffrey Simmons is walking him back to the quarterback but you know what he's hanging on for dear life there and Sam could just throw it over him. That was not the case with Ingram. It was just over fast and the guys right in the quarterbacks face and there is nowhere to go on interior pressure. If someone beats the edge, you might be able to step up. You might be able to swing back around him, but somebody beats a guard instantly. It's just over and you got to throw it away. You're going to make a mistake.

There was way too much of that. And I think from the start, it was a bad bet to make on him as a prospect, because I think that's your point is that this was never really a second round caliber prospect. So you reached and then you hoped and then you wasted three years and this is what's really hard about drafting lineman Jeremiah is that when you draft them, you got to play them. You can't just be like, Oh, we'll rotate them in and see if he could do it for a while. You got to play every snap or no snaps and teams will often choose to just kind of ride it out with a young guy and then they pull the cord halfway into a season after he's given up the most pressures in the league. Yeah.

And you're exactly right. Because there is no ease in period for a high, high drafted offensive lineman. You're in there buddy. And it's trial by fire and you get a year of grace. I do think that if you're a rookie or a second year, first year, starter, offensive lineman, you get a little bit grace. I do think that if you're a rookie or a second year, first year starter offensive lineman, you get a little bit of grace. But the mental errors, nothing will get you off of, off of a field quicker than that. Especially when you start paying your quarterback $50 million-plus, it's a lot to bet on a guy that might slide right

when he's supposed to slide left. And here comes Dexter Lawrence, straight up the middle. I saw that. I watched that happen. Bradbury goes left, he goes right, here comes 97 down to just ruin your life. That happens. That's unacceptable. And for me, that is a 100% want to and desire thing. I don't think it has anything to do with how smart you are. It has everything to do with how much work are you willing to put in to truly understand the playbook? We've all played this game since we were itty bitty little people. We grew up into really big people. We have to understand that the NFL is a complicated beast. It's now our job.

We have to put the time into understand what's happening all around us or else you're not going to play. And I think you're right. I think you nailed it on the head with that. Eventually, I just got sick of it and said, okay, cut bait and lose. And that's why to circle back to Will fries. That's why you like a guy like Will fries, because it really shows that progress shows the passion for that position, which you could see in his tape. I mean, this guy likes being an offensive lineman. He likes hitting people.

He likes giving that extra little push. He has a passion for this. I'm just not sure that was ever there with that Ingram. And if you don't have a passion for being an offensive lineman, it's going to be a tough goal. We've seen some guys survive who are athletic freaks, but he was not that. So that's it. A sixth round pick. Good job.

I guess you better than just button him. Yeah, right. What are you going to do? Anyway, so let's go over to the left guard position, which currently still has Blake Brandel. I don't hate that more than anything I've ever hated before my entire life. If he plays there, it was okay. Well, Christian Darasol was in. It was not okay when Cam Robinson was in.

I think that guy could play in the league, but I don't think he moves the needle at all. And there are fast losses that he has and for someone so big, not a difference maker in the league, but I don't think he moves the needle at all. And there are fast losses that he has. And for someone so big, not a difference maker in the run game. So I think he's a below average type of starter that they need to improve. I'm liking the idea of drafting one there of bringing in a Gray's Abel or Tyler Booker or somebody who's just going to be that freak. Sorry, got too excited about football.

Who's going to be who's I know football guards who's going to be, who's I know, football guards, who's going to be that, uh, who's going to be that difference maker athletically. But is there anybody else on the free agent market who you think would still be a good choice at left guard? The only guy that's still out there would be maybe Jenkins from Chicago and McKay Bechtin. Those are really the only two guards as we record this at this moment that are still out there for that piece there. McKay Bekton though, I'm very, very, very interested of what is happening and why he is not on a football team right now.

I think there's one of two options. One, he's asking for tackle money, and he might want to move back out to tackle. Two, he priced himself out of the market. He came into every single one of these meetings and said, I want Trey Smith money. I want Landon Dickerson money. Like I want 22. I want 23 a year. And teams went, Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. And then they went, Okay, well, we're not signing

him. We're gonna go sign Aaron Banks. We're gonna go sign Patrick McCarrey. We're gonna go do all this stuff. And now the carousel is slowing down and there's not as many places left for you to stop at. That or people are just really concerned he truly was a one-hit wonder in that scheme. If you ask him to come to Minnesota, it's a totally different ball game, my friend, right?

Jenkins probably is a little bit more of a difference maker in the run game than Blake Brandle, but they're pretty comparable in pass protection. In my opinion, he doesn't scream great athletes stay in front of you, move your feet. He is just a bigger guy that can get in front of people and hold on. Neither one of those guys that I think is a tremendous upgrade over Blake Brandle could Mackay Bekden be if he played like last year? Absolutely. But you're asking him to pass block now twice as many times as he did last year. If he comes into this Minnesota scheme. And with Beckton, it's such a small sample size. It's not like he's had multiple years of being really good at that. I mean, I kind of liked that idea for the Vikings, but then the hiring of the

assistant offensive line coach and they've got a history that doesn't seem like it's all that good, but we've had, we saw this with Dalton Reisner last year where Reisner went into free agency, looking for certain dollars and they were just not there. The league did not evaluate him at that level. And when you are part of an Eagles machine, I think that people around the league are going to say, can we really emulate what you were going to have with Lane Johnson to your right? And probably not. Right. And, and the offensive line coach that they have,

who is the premier offensive line coach, the league, like it's hard to do. Uh, if the Vikings were interested in him at a cheaper price, if it falls, then that's okay. Uh, Brandon Sheriff is still out there and we would say in his name for forever. I was looking at some NFL next gen thing put out like a pressure rate kind of deal with him and he's still can pass block. I don't think he's an imposing run blocker like he was, but I don't mind the idea of a veteran there and then drafting someone in the

middle or later rounds, but there really isn't a big upgrade to be had over Blake Brandle outside of that one year kind of brand sure of type of thing. Agreed. I mean, the hope and dream would have been you could have stole Kevin Zeitler like one year for the eight or nine that he got. But I think right now they're okay with Blake Brando there. And maybe Walter Rouse is a guy they're excited about to be able to come in and compete as a, as a guard in that piece there. maybe Michael Juergens took a big step this year and maybe he can play some guard.

Or I do think they'll be looking to bolster that interior line. Cause like I said earlier with the Kelly thing, it's as deep as a guard class as I can remember in the last two, three years. So there's going to be some really good value late day three guys, early day three value pieces there that could come in and potentially compete for starting spots. How about the other side? Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen, two players old enough for you to have been in the league when they were in their primes. They certainly are not anymore. But I was thinking about it this way. Once again, with the you're going to the mall with lots of money and it doesn't really matter what you spend on it right now.

Uh, but if both of these guys are healthy enough and they've slid down from being top five pass rushing top 10 pass rushing type of defensive tackles to top 25, sort of like the same argument you make with why would you bring in Cooper cup? Well, he's not the office of MVP before or anymore, but he could catch the ball still and he could get open. He can make plays so he would be a good in a certain role. I kind of look at it this way. They are spending a lot of money for that, but when you go through the league

and defensive tackles, BJ Hill, no idea what you're doing signing that contract with Cincinnati, but he was off the board almost immediately. Tashawn Wharton signs a huge deal with Carolina. Congratulations to him, but I don't know if that's the best economic deal to make off of one year with six and a half sacks. So I looked at the defensive tackle market where it was either you take a risk here or you just get nothing. And with the money they have, take the risk.

Yeah, absolutely. Take the risk on proven players. It's not a flyer on, like you said, a Milton who played 500 snaps this year. Milton, yeah, that was his name. His name was Milton what? Williams. Okay, there you go. Yeah, Milton Williams. I knew that one. You were hunting for it though. It took a second. It took a second.

You know, Milton. The cog clicked for a second. But, you know, that was a 500 snappy year guy. That's a thousand snappy year, 900 snappy year type money that you just paid him. Jonathan Allen and Doron Payne for that Washington commander's team never came off the field. They were on that field all the time, whether it was base, whether it was nickel, it did not matter. Those two guys never came off the field. So now you bring him back in to add Jonathan Allen to this system where he doesn't need to be on the field for 900 snaps anymore. Because of the way we rotate and the way we move things and the way we

put pieces in, you're going to get the best of him because he's going to be able to stay healthier not being the 900 snap of your guy. Could he still do it? I think so. He's still very physically imposing when you watch his tape. But you're not going to need him to do it, which is what I think is great. And then you spell him with Hargrave and that piece there, too. It's buying pieces that you don't need to pay top money for, but have been top money guys. And you think, OK, if we cut the rep counts by a third, that prime is still in there. That juice is still in there. That it's still ability to get out. We're just not going to be able to ask them to do it for 900 snaps

throughout the year. And you're not asking him, this is what I like about each flawed move in the accumulation of it is you're not asking any of these guys to change your team. You're asking them to solidify your team. So you already have a second team, all pro and Van Ginkle, somebody that could have been all pro and Jonathan Grenard. Harrison Phillips is a solid NFL player. We've seen that for years now with him.

His health record is really good and he can move bodies up front for you. So those are your key pieces already. Now come in and solidify this thing. This can't same with the offensive line. If you're trying to go into free agency and like, let's get a franchise left tackle here. No, you're just not going to do that. Same thing with, Hey, let's go get a 12 sack, 80 pressure edge rusher. Not going to happen. Usually. I mean, the Vikings got Granada that way and kind of lucked out with it, but normally that's not going

to happen. So they're asking Alan to come in and get 40 pressures, Hargrave, get 40 pressures combined for 12 or 13 sacks. A sack of game from the two of you or something in that ballpark is such an enormous upgrade over what they've had there for how many years. It's really been since Sheldon Richardson in 2018 that they've gotten anything. Armand Watts had like a minute where we went like, Oh, maybe Armand Watts is right. But that's, that's what we've been talking about is maybe James Lynch. Don't forget James Lynch. Yes. Kyra's Tonga. Like just,

it's just maybe this guy, Jaylen Redmond, even I would look back and I was like, yeah, Jaylen Redmond is pretty good. He had like one pressure. It was just like maybe not. Maybe you need somebody who's really been good at this for a long time. The health record is concerning my thing with talking about guys health is that's the best I can do though, because how am I supposed to tell you if he's going to get hurt last

year? Aaron Jones was concerning. So was Andrew Van Ginkle. He had a foot thing. I don't know. Sometimes they stay healthy. Sometimes they don't Davenport was concerning. So was Andrew Van Ginkle. He had a foot thing, but I don't know. Sometimes they stay healthy. Sometimes they don't. Davenport was concerning and he was out early in the year. Right.

I have no idea. Yeah. The health thing is always the knock anytime you're 28 plus, right? It's always the risk of, but anyone can get hurt. Anytime this game's violent, it's part of the game and it's why you have to build good depth on your roster. And it's why I like the idea of signing guys that you're not going to ask to be every single down starters. The rotational, they're going to start, but you're going to feel really good about some guys. You're going to draft some guys because talk about the line class that into your D line classes, chef's kiss. I mean, it is so talented. You bring in some young guys that learn behind those two vets, you're cooking with gas now. All right. Harrison Smith is coming back. And I saw Ben Lieber tweet the other day that he said, well, I guess I cried in the Arizona locker room for nothing. I got to tell you, though, even myself, when I saw Harry walking out in the bowels of the Arizona State

Farm, whatever it is, University of Phoenix dot net or whatever, the stadium. But when I saw him walking out, I was like, Hey man, if this is it, like it's an honor. I think we all kind of thought that this could be it for Harrison Smith, but he decides to come back. Why do you think grown men, linebackers who could beat me up so easily are brought to tears by the idea of Harrison Smith not playing anymore? Anytime, I call Harry a legend, right? He is a legend in my mind of what he's done, the high level of play he's played at for so many years.

You and I have talked before, if he's on a multiple, like if he wins one Super Bowl, he's already wearing a gold jacket. He still might when it's all said and done. What he's been able to live through regime wise players, I mean, he was like best friends with Anthony Barr and Andrew Sendejo and then they all leave. And then this new class comes in and they love him and he's like the dad of the group now and just the way he's morphed from young stud, pro bowler,

all-pro, veteran leader, stable position. It's just something you don't want to see those guys go. You don't want to see those guys leave. You love turning on the, I love turning on the game on Sunday and seeing the long arm sleeves of number 22 running around in the backfield or in the background, running at the line of scrimmage and sprint into the deep third. And I mean, you just don't want to see those types of guys go. And anytime after an emotional win like that, or emotional loss like that, excuse me, when it's going to feel like maybe this is the end, he probably felt

like absolute dog crap, right? When you're old and your body's beat like that, I mean, getting out of bed is probably tough. And so he's like, I can't do this anymore. You give the guy a couple months, you let him go down to Arizona and sit in the sun and feel good about it. So I could probably do this a little bit more.

I'm getting old. They're not going to put every rep on me during training camp anymore. Let the young guys do that thing. I think that he just feels like he's still got some left in the tank. And was he as disruptive and everything as he was been in the past years? Not as much, but he's still a top 15 safety in the entire NFL. He's still graded higher than guys who got huge contracts in

free agency last year by PFF. Uh, there's the splash plays aren't quite as high. The sacks flying off the edge aren't quite as high, but still create a fair number of pressures as a blitzer. I think the biggest thing for him, I did a story about this last year, talked to Harry about it is when he came back, he said,

one of the reasons I came back last year was for Brian Flores guy. Just love working with him. Those two are 99.9th percentile football psychos. They are lunatics. They love this game more than anybody. And they also love the creativity of it. The mastery of schematics, they work together. So Brian Flores will say,

what if we try this coverage against this look and Harrison Smith gives him feedback and then on the field, Harrison has become an extension of Brian Flores because every call has other calls that you can get to. It's no longer where they just send in the call, play the defense. That's how it is. That's not how football works anymore because the offenses have so many checks. They have motions. They all have all these things.

The counter to that is having Harrison Smith who can see a motion, see a formation, see a check, see a offensive line change and go, all right. Their tendency is that they do this. So we're going to change that coverage and knowing all the Brian Flores has implemented throughout OTAs, a training camp fluently. He can make those changes quickly, instantly, from seeing the recognition of what he's seen on tape. And it's one of the reasons why they have

such a freaking good defense. And so you may see it and go, well, you know, Harrison Smith didn't get downhill as fast as he used to, or maybe he would have picked that ball off and instead he just knocked it away. That's, you're only seeing 10% in the plays that he's involved with what's actually going on out there and I think his passion for working with Flores has been something really special and I got to ask Mattelis and Bynum and Harry about it.

It was really cool to hear them talk about behind the scenes. It was like two artists talking about you know putting together a painting or something with those two in scheme. So having another year of that, I think solidifies this defense. It answers the last question, which is just what's going on at safety and can they be as dynamic schematically now we know that they can. So my question for you is we've gone through all these moves. There might be more to come, but I think a lot of the big ones have been done. How good are the Minnesota Vikings? They're as good as their quarterback.

I think that they've built a Superbowl contending roster, right? You look around the league and you want to compare position by position, roster to roster. The Vikings are probably top seven, right? And you talk about how many teams actually have a shot of winning it every single year, you probably go into the earth about six to seven teams and it's the kid, normal characters, it's Josh Allen, it's Patrick Mahomes, it's okay. Jayden Daniels is in the thing.

It's Jalen hurts. You're looking at the Vikings going, they've got a lot of unbelievable players on this roster. Who's the trigger man? And I can't even begin to put a win total on this football team until I know for sure who that is. Is it JJ? Is it Aaron Rodgers? I don't know. There's so much speculation. And if it is JJ, I think this team will be as good as he is because he's technically a rookie. He's still a rookie in my mind. Yes, he's had a year in the NFL to grow. He's got to do all that stuff. But he has never stepped on the gridiron on a regular season Sunday for an NFL team. I don't know what we're getting out of him. We obviously drafted him at 10, so we believe he can be a Super Bowl contending quarterback at one point in his career. Is he there right now? I don't know. I saw a report today that we're all celebrating he's over 200 pounds. Why are we doing that? Why are we all celebrating that? Like, is that a problem? Is that a red flag? I don't know. There saw a report today that we're all celebrating is over 200 pounds Why are we doing that? Why are we all celebrating that? Like is that a problem? Is that a red flag? I don't know. There's just so many question marks with that right now. I've been over 200 pounds for a long time

Yeah, I don't know what third grade. I don't know. I was gonna say yeah, when when did you clear that threshold? I Want to see a two on the scale again, let me put it that way I'm tired of not having a two on the scale. Oh, come on. What did you play? What did you play at? Like three, three, 18. Yeah. Three, 15, three, 18. That's pretty husky on there. Yeah. I was a large human. Yeah. You're a large human. You're a large gentleman. So I think that what we have seen in recent history

is young quarterback succeed when things around them are good, when the receivers are good, when the coaching is good. I mean, even like Sean Payton, we shouldn't have doubted that Sean Payton could get a young Bo Nicks to the, and I say young, young ish, uh, Bo Nicks to the playoffs. That is what is a little different about McCarthy than some of the other quarterbacks though, because Jayden Daniels had a ton of college experience. Pennix came and looked pretty good right away.

Nicks came and looked pretty good. The younger quarterback struggled more with Williams and May, but also they were dealing with much worse circumstances. There have been a lot of young quarterbacks though in recent years who have been good or taking their teams the playoffs very quickly. We saw it from Justin Herbert was really good right away. There's a bunch of examples Brock Purdy even was really good right away when he had what the coaching and

the situation and the defense and all those things. That's not to say that I know any better than anybody else. How McCarthy's going to look, but I think confidence rating should be pretty high seeing what Sam Darnold known as one of the biggest busts in the league did. Like there's a lot of reason to put two and two together and go, this, if you can't do this, and then seeing what we saw, how he handled himself

and the training camp, all that stuff, they should believe in it. This was your plan all along. And that's the biggest thing for me, Jeremiah, is when Kwesi Adolfo, Mensa, and Kevin O'Connell take over in 22, the goal is by three years from now to be saying, you're a top seven contender going in for the super bowl.

That's your goal. That's what, how you try to get from point A to point B. And you and I were here doing this show when they took over and we were saying, how do you get there? It's not going to be an easy road. And it kind of was a much easier road than we thought, but I think that they are there, they can't be done yet. They have to hit on some draft picks for the love of my sanity.

They have to hit on some draft picks. Dallas Turner has to improve next year. Like there's a lot of things that have to click in for this to happen. So the way I look at it is everything they've done has made a lot of sense and you can see the vision, but you're going to have to climb the mountain in order to get there. And there are things you can't get hit with tumbling rocks on the way down in order to get where you've set yourself up to go. And they have to do what they've done the last couple of years,

which is stay relatively healthy, right? Back to the health thing. Stay healthy. Some of these big time signings, you can't have them miss eight, nine, 10 games, whatever it may be. But the big X component here for me is Kevin O'Connell. What he's been able to do to lead that locker room, to get the guys to buy in, to bring in guys, free agent wise, that there's not one guy that they brought in free agent that's got like a character question mark all high character guys I think they've reached a level now as a program as an organization That they go we don't need to bring in the questionable really good player

Questionable character guy because we know what we're about in this locker room and Kevin O'Connell is a quarterback whisperer, man I mean he can get what he got out of Josh Dobbs. He just got Nick Mullins paid He got Dobbs and Nick Mullins paid. Make no mistake about it. Kevin O'Connell got those two guys paid this year for what they're gonna be able to go and do. I think Jajan McCarthy is the next line of the quarterback whisperer to go in there

and be able to do his thing. I know this is a total retraction of what I said about a year ago this time, but I have faith in Kevin O'Connell and what he's gonna be able to do. Well, when we get new information, we change. I think this is not of the way that media is supposed to be done now, like on the Yelly shows,

where you just say LeBron stinks forever, and then you're just wrong for 20 years and people keep watching or whatever the plan is there. For me, I've got skepticism about McCarthy as a prospect, and then he gets drafted and I get to see him and I go Okay. Now I've got a lot less speculation because I've seen what he's like and you never know what somebody's like until they actually get there No matter what they were like in college and to me he handled himself as a true pro from day one Which again ups that confidence level and kind of a freak injury thing

I don't know We'll see but I like I really like where they're at as a team that has turned themselves into from an old cap strap team that was desperate and just trying to trade for Chris Herndon to save your butt maybe to now making big time signings because they've got lots of cap space and turning it over to an exciting young quarterback, assuming that that is the way that they're actually going to go. Uh,

before we wrap up, we need a love to see it. Hate to see it on free agency edition. I'm going to throw hate to see it. Russell Wilson in Boraya, Ohio. That's like, just come on man. Just Russell Wilson was great. He was such a good quarterback. And now he's in a van and he's in that that hell hole in Cleveland in the middle of nowhere. Just like, yeah, I mean, I don't know what it like.

What are we doing, Russ? Hate to see it. Let it go. Cleveland stinks. You're not making the playoffs. You're not going to be good there. They have no receivers. Their owner is a is a fool like what you just look at that facility. You're just not going to be good. You're not going to be good.

Let it go. I hate to see it is Russell Wilson. Let it go. Also, I want to be a fly on the wall and Russell walks in and Jerry Judy sitting there like you again, right? Like I thought I got away from you. I don't want you back. Why are you here? Yeah, it's gonna be an interesting one with where Russ plays out. I hate to see it for

me is the Super Bowl window is officially closed on the San Francisco 49ers. It's done. You're selling the car for parts. You're trying to figure out what you're going to do at the quarterback position. You have a fantastic head coach. I think John Lynch is a very good general manager, but they did like anyone should. When you feel like you have the roster, you go all in. You put everything in the bottom and in the bottle, whatever it is.

Go for the Super Bowl. It doesn't work. Gotta pay the Piper, right? Now you're shipping pieces off. You're going to have the most projected dead cap in the NFL. It's just not going to be a good time to be in the Bay Area here for the next couple of years as they strip it down and start over. My love to see it is really hilariously goofy Photoshop's of players in other jerseys. It's one of the things I like the most because we've gotten a lot better at it,

but we're also not perfect and or A.I. is not doing it right. And the guys got too many fingers or whatever. It's just there was one that I sent out and I'm sure the Yahoo person is talented and tried their best, but the filter they put on Aaron Rogers to the Vikings made him look like a soldier that had just seen unthinkable things. And it was the funniest. I just was like, we got to stop doing it. Who wanted this.

Did someone want this? Was there someone who said, you know what? I'd really love to see is what he looks like in a Viking's helmet color purple. I mean, no. So that is that's definitely one thing. I mean, love to see it's hard to find because sarcastic hate to see it. They're so much better. I mean, the Steelers for so long, what an unbelievable organization

they are with Ben Rothesberger. It's like, hate to see it as these teams that had really great quarterbacks and acted like they were just the best franchises with the best coaches. And then they can't find them and they're going, Oh, maybe we could get Justin Fields. Maybe we could trade for Gino Smith and pay him or something. Like that's how about that for, I hate to see it is that people act like Gino Smith's a great quarterback.

I know. I just, I just don't understand it. The film people just seem to love him and he will win you eight or nine games. I mean, that's just the truth of who Gino Smith is. I get it. I was there when he made three of the sickest throws I saw all year, but that's not a football game. That's not winning the football game.

So I don't know. Teams floundering is like a like hate to see it as in, oh, the Vikings like plan this out. Exit from Kirk draft their quarterback have an answer. And all these teams are just floating out in the ocean going Mason Rudolph. You want to come side with us? Yeah. The, the quarterback needy teams right now.

I mean, the fact, my hate to see it is the New York giants have Tommy DeVito is the only quarterback under roster for them right now. Are you just fully convinced that you're going to take cam ward or Shader Sanders and ride off into the sunset? It's a scary place to be as a, as a front. I mean, if you're the giants, you're going, Atlanta, just cut him, just cut Kirk, just cut him. We'll bring him right here, right now.

Like, just, we'll take him, we'll take him. Cause Sunday is that post-declination. If they cut him, they, yeah, they're on like 10 million or something, they don't cut him before Sunday. So I do think my crystal ball is people haven't pulled the trigger on Aaron Rodgers yet, because they're waiting to see what happens with Kurt Cousins, so.

Which again is a sarcastic hate to say, oh, that's a shame. That's a shame. Some other teams gonna spend a lot of money for nothing. Oh, shoot. Too bad. What I'm watching is a lot of coaches get fired a gate month before they get fired. Yeah.

And he's just like, Brian Dable is not going to make it. I mean the guy from Tennessee, they signed a tackle who's not good for a gizillion dollars and they're going to draft cam ward and play Brandon Allen. I think they signed. I mean, you just, you just hate to see coaches fired in March, but that's what's going to happen. Enjoy that breakfast at the owner's meetings, guys, because it'll be your last one for a while. Anyway, it's it's just tough.

It's just tough. But I do love to see. I do love to see the draft is now a lot more intriguing. And the doors are open for the Vikings to do a lot of different things in the draft, kind of whatever they want. I mean, the other day, Chris Trapaso, CBS draft analyst said, what if they just drafted a receiver? And I was like, you

wait, but I'm seeing terrible receivers get tons of money and maybe three receivers is like that's kind of where they've set themselves up for. So kind of love to see that. Yeah, they don't have to. They can truly draft best available right now instead of positional based, which is always good to have find the best available piece in there. My last, uh, hate to see it is I'm sorry, CJ Stroud, you were crushed last year, you were sacked, you were hit, you were unspeakable things.

And then they traded your all pro left tackle. They traded your starting guard and they brought you at Ingram. I'm sorry. That is pretty. That's pretty tough. They only gave up a sixth for nothing. Okay. One last one. Okay.

Hate to see that the Packers still don't have WR one. You know, they told me the Packers said, no, no, it's actually all you do is throw to Jefferson. Like dummies. What you should really do is have eight guys who are just OK. And like, you know, I don't think that's how football has ever worked. But sure. All right. Well, we'll get it. We're going to go get T Higgins.

You're like, no, you're not like, well, what if we get Devante back? Probably not, though. They got nothing. Romeo Dobbs, baby. Romeo Dobbs and you'll get a Christian Watson for eight games a year. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, it's a shame.

So anyway, Jeremiah Searles, we will definitely check in again for the draft. Maybe a little draft preview at some point, but I appreciate the hardcore breakdown and breaking news mid podcast, which doesn't happen to us too much. I usually happens after the show. I've been on a run. Like I was about to wrap up a pod the other day and Harrison Smith comes back. I'm like, I am on absolute fire right now. And then it happens again today. So great stuff from you, my friend.

And we will talk again soon. Football football. and we will talk again soon. Football. Football.