Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jeremiah Sirles loves one guard for the Vikings in this draft

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by former Vikings lineman Jeremiah Sirles, who has pinpointed one guard the Vikings should absolutely take in the draft.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of purple insider, Matthew collar here. And look who we found. Hey, the Vikings are being mocked with guards and defensive tackles. Suddenly Jeremiah Searles is texting me 24 seven. They come on, let me come back on the show. I want to talk more guards. So here he is.

Former Minnesota Viking Jeremiah Searles with something, something funny in your background. What's going on? There's a giant chief's flag. It says Swifty on it. What? Swifty. What happened here? What is this? My long-term barber been going to him for about a decade now. Massive chiefs fan. And I obviously we're a fan of the Bills on the show at times, right? Your Bills guy have the Bills lineage there. So I was like, this a fan of the Bills on the show at times, right? You're a Bills guy. I have the Bills lineage there. So I was like, this is the year. This is the year. They're gonna beat the Bills. And he's like, All right, let's

make a bet that's gonna hurt. I was like, All right. He goes, if the Chiefs win, you have to hang a custom Chiefs flag behind you for every podcast that you do until next year's AFC Championship. If the Bills win, I got to hang a giant one in his barbershop above his chair for an entire year, which would have killed him because everyone that walks in there knows that. But again, the bills go to Arrowhead and lose again. And so here I am. Kansas City and all right there behind me. So get

used to it, because it's not going anywhere. It'll be all through Tuesday morning left guard next year and the whole bit. So it is just an unfortunate life circumstance. I feel like that is very punitive for a bet to OK, hang it there for the off season, hang it there for a handful of pods. But all the way through next year, it's going to say Swifty in your background. Yeah, that's pretty tough. Well, you just have to like adjust to this kind of sit here,

sit here the rest of the the rest of the way, just move the whole camera. There we go. That's better. The fact that it's also covering up the Nebraska helmet, which is like the closest thing to your heart to maybe you'll have to slide. The I know I still haven't playoffs. I haven't like I haven't switched to ask to go. I do think the Panthers make the playoffs this year, by the way. Full take. But yeah, I'm going to have to do some helmet rearranging because I think that one's got to go. I do think the Panthers make the playoffs this year, by the way, full take. But, uh, yeah, I'm gonna have to do some helmet rearranging because

yeah, I think that one's gotta go. All right. Well, I'll work through this clear distraction, but you know what? It's about focusing one podcast take at a time and that's what we do on this show. So here's why you're back. Of course, we love talking football, but we especially love talking fat people and the Vikings are being mocked nonstop with guards, less defensive tackles, but I still think that that is in play as one of the positions the Vikings could go with. So why don't we start talking about some guards?

Yes. Mel Kuyper just mocked Donovan Jackson to the Vikings. I have become gray's able brained or whatever, pilled, uh, and, uh, you know, Tyler Booker shouldn't be out of this conversation either. And then there's other guys who are tackles, but every one of their draft profiles says, well, he could be a guard like Kelvin banks, for example,

who is a very talented player, but he's got those short little arms. So there's always the discussion about moving them inside. Uh, what do you think broadly of the class of potential gentlemen, the Vikings could look at at number 24. Yeah, it's actually really fascinating because historically speaking, guards don't go in the first unless you're Quentin Nelson, Zach Martin, right? Like generational type talent at the guard position tackles usually where it's at at the guard position.

Tackles usually where it's at in the first round. I mean, even you go back to last year, it's Joal, Tali Fuwaga, Troy Fontenot. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around that there might be three guards taken in the first round. I just don't know if I can buy that because you can draft really high level, edge rushers, D tackles that in the first and then still get those guys in the second and the third.

So I personally lean towards that. There's really only two guards that I think are worth first round picks. Tyler Booker for me is the clear number one guard in the class. Yes, his testing numbers weren't great and all that happy horse crap. Cut the tape on. You put the tape on, that dude is a monster. He's maulin dudes. He's great in pass protection. From what I think I've heard about him, he's an unbelievable kid, great leader of that team on Alabama, no off-the-field issues. He checks every box for me. He's the clear OG- one going into the draft, in my opinion. Zabel's another one for me that, while I love Gray, and I wish I signed him, I was super close, he is a bit more of a project than most people think. Because yes, he played tackle, he did all that, but you're talking about a full position switch, maybe even to center, depending on the team that

takes him. Yes, there's a really good lineage of guys like Cordell Volsen, Cody Mock, like guys that have come in and started right away from that school, but none of those guys were first round picks. And there's just a different pressure that comes with it when you're drafted in that first round. I think Gray can handle it, but those are the only two guys, in my opinion, that I think are truly worth first round picks as guard positions. So the Tyler Booker, let's start with him. Uh, you are right that when you watch any of Tyler Booker or you look at the data on him is very impressive. His past protection, especially one of the best past protecting guards in the

entire nation by PFF grade. I don't think he allowed a sack this year, barely any pressures. I mean, you can see why because he is freaking enormous and he has everything. He has the arm length. He has a violence to his game. But the one area that I think did show up in the combine is a twitchiness. And I think we need to talk about how important that might be because I think if you're running a zone system, now they usually don't run the Vikings, that super wide zone where everybody gallops toward the sideline and then, you know,

Delvin cook's supposed to cut it back. The Vikings don't do a lot of that, but still like the defensive tackles are getting quicker. They're getting smaller and the Vikings want to be versatile and they want to run zone stuff. So that's the one concern for me is can the guy move well enough at the NFL level to be worthy first round draft pick?

I mean, I think it's very clear you would draft him and he could be a starter, but there isn't a great history of guards that are his size who scored that poorly at the combine and then what they become in the NFL because quickness does matter in there. Yeah. And it's such a team dependent thing. Like the Atlanta Falcons aren't going to touch Tyler Booker with the 10 foot pole because they want the high cut can run the five flat to four nine guys are going to climb up the Chris Lindstrom's of the world and, the Dolmen before he left, like that's the profile you fit. But if I'm the Vikings, I look at Tyler Booker and go, this guy could define the running game of what we want to be. We want to be downhill. And say I pair him next to Christian Derrassau

and those two can double team those light, agile, twitchy 3 techniques and pick them up and set them in the linebackers lap. Now we're looking more like we can be a downhill team first and sprinkle in the zone when we want to. Right? When you draft, if you draft Tyler Booker in the first round, you're going to allow his strength to define part of what your run game is. Right? And on the other side, you have Fries and O'Neill that are both a little bit more of athletics. I think Fries is not quite the athlete O'Neill is. both a little bit more of athletics. I think Fries is not quite the athlete O'Neal is, right. But if you want to get some zone and pin-pull stuff, you can always move it that way. You can hammer home. I think he brings a versatility that you could bring. Yes, you don't want to pull him out on

the edge over and over and over again. But if you watch the Alabama tape, the way he fits into double teams, the way that he displaces guys on single blocks, right, not just one-on-ones, but just true reaches of the three technique, one-on-one, mono-e-mono. He's establishing a new line of scrimmage. Yes, there is a little bit of, Hey, can he climb up on a Fred Warner that's running full speed away from him? Maybe not, but there's not many guards in the league that actually can't, right. And so this is the time of year we can get it there's not many guards in the league that actually can. Right? And so this is the time of year we can get it, like, infatuated, and that's probably not a real word, infatuated with, Hey, what can't he do instead of, look at all the really great stuff that he can do that we can make work. Austin Suellentrop in Infatuation is a real thing. And it's something that Vikings fans have had with the guard

position for a very good reason for a long time. So yes, that is a word. Uh, when it comes to Booker, something stood out to me in particular that would sell me more on Tyler Booker. And that is all the intangible stuff that you mentioned because when it comes to lineman, where do we always start? He's a freak. He's a beast. He's a monster.

Look at his height, weight, arms, all that stuff. And yet getting to know a handful of you fellas over the years, it's usually the guys that are pretty strong in between the ears that ultimately have success. And I think that no matter who you're talking about, when they came out in the league, let's just talk about Darasaw and O'Neal. When O'Neal came out, that guy's a second round, not even an early second round, a late second round pick who if you redrafted would be a top 10 pick for what

he's brought. And I think if you know Brian at all, you know, his intensity, his intelligence, his leadership, all those sorts of things that he brings, his work ethic. He showed up in Minnesota looking like a tight end put on the weight that was necessary, all that sort of stuff. And then on the other side, Christian Darasaw, I had someone tell me that the reason Christian Darasaw was not a top 10 pick was that he was too chill. He was which he is.

I mean, if you know him, he's about as chill as a guy as possible. I'm like, I don't think that's how he plays though. It's like, ah, well, is he going to be intense enough? But Darasaw studies as hard as anybody and works as hard as anybody on his craft. And to me, that is such a correlating thing on the interior of the office of line too. There's so much going on in there. The stunts we saw like crazy last year, identifying stuff.

And I think the best players between the ears can understand what they can and can't do well and find workarounds. So maybe he doesn't have lightning quickness, but he understands his own body and space and players across from him. And he can make up for some of those things. Now, the question really is, okay, he's not a perfect prospect, but Darnie's really a good one. Is that worth the first round pick that we're talking about? Because there are safeties like Melchize Starks or Nick Emmanuari and him warre and the wide receiver is a case I'm always going to make every single year because I'm me. Is it worth going with a guard?

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and important safety information. That's the age old question and I'll tell you historically speaking, the answer's been no. Just if you case study across what the league has done forever, would I love to watch more guards go in the first as a former fat O'leinman guard? Absolutely, right?

Give us our credit where credit is due. Case is, there's usually a lot more talented players at high level positions that you can get in the first round. Right? Guys that are going to come in and start at safety, start at corner, start at edge rusher, right? And then it's like, Hey, but we can get a starting guard in the second or the third, because you can't. You very much can go get starting level into your players in the second and third round that the first round guys are no longer like, the drop-off from the first round safeties in the second and third round that the first-round guys are no longer like, the drop-off from the first-round safeties to the second and third-round safeties is usually pretty drastic. Right? So you start looking at that from an analytics standpoint. And my answer to you is probably not, right? I don't think that

you should draft a guard in the first round, unless it's the last, like, 5 picks, which is the Vikings are flirting with that right there. Because if you are picking in the bottom of the first half, first round, unless it's the last like 5 picks, which is the Vikings are flirting with that right there, because if you are picking in the bottom of the first half, first round, that means you're picking in the bottom of the second. And if you think, Hey, this guy has a potential to be a first-rounder, but he might fall to the second, well, he's not going to fall to the bottom of the second. And so that's what happens sometimes is you get pigeonholed in this bottom of the first round going, I really like this kid. I want him, but there's no chance he's there to pick again at 47. So that's how guys end up getting drafted in the late, late firsts that shouldn't probably get drafted there just based off of analytics and based off of the history of the NFL. But I do think Tyler Booker and Gray Zabel are

going to fall into that category of a team that goes, we need a starting caliber guard. We want to make sure we get our guy. Let's just take him there at 24. So this is something I think about a lot because on one hand, yes, the premium positions are called that for a reason. Uh, tackles make $30 million wide receivers make 35, 40, 40, 40, 40. And in DK Metcalf's case, you don't even have to be that good recently to make 32. And you look around at how hard those positions are to replace.

There are guards that you could get in free agency, but those prices are starting to go up and on the other side of it. Also, you are getting the best player in the entire draft at that position at 24. You might be getting the sixth best tackle. You might getting the fourth best wide receiver or the third best something else. That's a premium position. But when it comes to guard, you can have your pick of the litter.

And I also think for the Vikings when they are sitting at 24, if there's a player that consensus boards and mock drafters think is the 36 best player and you take him in 24, it's fine. Like it's not a huge, some sort of huge crazy reach if they believe he's going to be a game changer. Why I would like this position at 24 though, is I think that offensive lines are about five. I think you have to have five either good to great to make a huge difference.

We know they could survive on the offensive line. They survived last year was fine and PFF at the end of the day ranks him as 14th. And that's probably about right for what they were. It's not a catastrophe, but you're also going to get beat by a Rams team at the end of the day. If you don't have the right matchup, what you're looking for is if you're in the top three, it's a difference maker where opponents come into the game and go, oh, we got to play this team. And I think they're kind of one guy away from being.

We got to play this team, which I think in Vikings land, it's probably been since about 2009 since that happened. Yeah. And they've done a great job in positioning themselves through free agency, through drafting decently the last few years, that they don't necessarily need to take best available at 24. They could take best need available. Right. And for that, the glaring position right now is offensive guard and probably another corner. Right. I mean, you would probably know better than me. I haven't studied the defensive side of the Vikings a ton lately of, Hey, what are the really big needs that we need there? But I would say you know if you've got a corner or a DB that you're in love with or

guard that you're really in love with, those would be the two positions that I'm probably bucking heads with in the draft room of we need this guy. We need that guy and then ultimately it falls to Kevin O'Connell who's an offensive guy, so he'll probably take the guard right right and I think if you're O'ConnellConnell you've also seen so much investment on that defensive side you're like how about over here a little bit on the defensive side certainly safety is the most glaring and Melchizedek and and Amore are very impressive

prospects corner is a little more debatable because they've got some guys there McKay Blackman and they signed Isaiah Rogers. But I also think you're looking for a 21 or 22 year old guy that you develop over years and you pair with Byron Murphy for a long period of time. You're looking for a little higher end talent than that, but just circling back to the guard position, Zable specifically, you talked about as being a little

bit more of a project type of player. I don't mind that with a first round pick because of where they're at. If Blake Brando plays left guard for them in week one, like that's okay. I mean, O'Neal was thought of as a project player too. And was it Rashad Hill? Maybe starting and then five weeks, six weeks into the season. There. So I know was banged up, but he didn't start right away. Poor Rashad was always the guy who was getting benched for the high draft pick, but I'm not afraid of that.

I think the NDSU thing would scare some people. It's worked out sometimes, it hasn't worked out other times, which sounds like every other university I've ever heard of. And to me, what makes him a little different, because somebody emailed about him being similar to maybe Ezra Cleveland. To me, what makes him a little different, because somebody emailed about him being similar to maybe Ezra Cleveland. To me, while you could break that down, what makes him different is the violence. I see a violence in his game and an aggressiveness

in his game, which I think that even if he wasn't perfect right away, he's got the right mentality to fit in and be a difference maker with that combination of aggressiveness and athleticism. Yeah, having and currently repping to NDSU offensive linemen, they come out of there hungry to kill. Like that's just the nature in which they have been raised at NDSU. They're champions, right? They know how to win. They know what it takes to become and practice like a champion, play like a champion. That matters, right? You can draft a kid that's in training camp talented, and he won four games every year in college.

He doesn't know what it's like to grind for a championship, to grind for you're the top dog with the target on your back. That's a different mentality that I've noticed these NDSU players just have and carry into the league, which is why I do think they have such great success when they show up because they come from a program that winning is everything. And that's all the NFL is. The NFL is all about winning, right? The bottom line is win. And so was able. I do agree with you. I think he's a much more violent player than Ezra was. Ezra was a tackle, right? Played a little more that finesse. Gray was a guard that

played tackle at the FCS level and just beat the shit out of people. Like I don't know how else to say it. Like you cut cut the tape on there, and he's just driving this poor kid from Elon into the sideline and setting him on the bench, right? That, but that's what you have to do at that level. But you have to show out and stand out. And so I think Gray is a day-one starter at any interior position. I also think that there's a team that might draft him and say, Come play center, right? Come be the Graham Barton of this year's class. Like granted from Duke last year, drafted to Tampa, started at center. I can see that there too.

The only thing is it is a little bit more of a question mark in my opinion than a Tyler Booker. I think a Tyler Booker is a slam dunk, day one starter. There's some limitations there, but the upside is where it is. Gray, little bit more question marks, but I'm not knocking the guy. I still think he's a first round day one starter.

So what about Donovan Jackson, who Mel Kiper put there? Interesting player, though, for me to watch at the combine because his movement skill is just, I think, really impressive. Just you see him move around and go, OK, well, not everybody can do that. And the fact that he was able to kick out to tackle, he wasn't an incredible tackle. But the fact that he could just do it, I think, says a lot about his athleticism. I feel like based on the consensus and the data, it would be a reach there.

But also, if that's the guy they really love, then you might as well do it. Yeah, I don't think he's as much as a first round talent. You know, if you watch the Ohio State tape, which I did quite a bit this year, and you saw Simmons, and then you compare him with Donovan Jackson, there's a pretty big gap there from an athletic profile that you look at and go, okay, that's first round talent athleticism. Donovan, you've got great athleticism. Again, I mean, you're more athletic than I ever was and then a lot of people ever will be. I don't see you as the Day 1, the Day 1 guy. Now I think you go in Day 2 100%. But again, it just goes back to those Day 1 picks are guaranteed so much money. And they're guaranteed to be around for 4 years no

matter what. You have to get those picks right. He just has one too many question marks for me. I do like the ability to move out to tackle, and he's got some really good length to him. The thing that worried me a little about him is he doesn't have a great anchor. There, there's multiple times, if you watch the Michigan game, you know, he's getting pushed back. I know he's at tackle, right, but he's getting pushed back a little bit, not quite as big of a lower body and anchor there as some of those other guys in that piece there, and he's a taller guy, too. And sometimes those taller guards that kind of are more that finesse kind of run around piece to it. But he's a great player.

I just don't think I take him in the first. Now, what about the Minnesota kid? I thought Ariante Ursary was just going to be a tackle. But the Vikings reportedly met with him and one of their 30 visits, which I don't know. I mean, some people play games with those and bring in people just to get it out there. But I don't think the Vikings do that so much.

OK, I did. Everyone does it. Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I right. I'm sure they play games. But but just the Ursary in general, do you see him as a guard? Because I had never really thought of him as a guard. But, you know, we might be in a new world where you want next level athleticism to be in that spot. He he is a tackle through and through.

He has way too much length and not enough bend. Right. So watching him pretty good this year, having some guys that were at the Minnesota Pro Day, you know, that watched him. Obviously Boone was there, worked with some of the guys. He has all the length and the athleticism to play tackle. He's not the guy you want in the phone booth. Right? You know, sometimes you hear about like, Oh, he's better in a phone booth. I think Ariante is better in space. Right. And the guys that are better in space and know how to use their length and get out off the ball and understand that, sometimes you throw those guys inside and you're like, Dude, that dude's right there. Like, I can touch him right now. It doesn't always work better for those type of players. So I don't view him as a, as a guard at all. I think he's a guy that's going to come in. His

upside is he could be a day one starter. His floor is he's the swing tackle that's going to eventually start middle of the year type of thing. It just depends how quickly he can get going with it mentally. Right. That's the type of player he is. But I don't I don't anticipate him moving inside at all. He's enormous. I stood next to him. He's enormous, dude. He's he's so big. Yeah, I never thought a guard when I saw him play all year long. He, I think, has very much starting caliber talent in the NFL as a tackle, which if you have that, you're usually going to get drafted by somebody as a tackle.

But my question is, what are we going to do with that in a phone booth saying? I mean, where's a phone booth? Like how many people walking around the world have never seen a phone booth? Like there are every day new people born who will never see that. So you're going to have to work on that. Some other small area where you might have to work. I don't know. We're just going to work on that.

We're going to think that one because I don't have a great answer for you. How about on the defensive tackle side, as we focused solely on the trenches here? I'm very intrigued by Derek Harman. I've heard really good things about him from a mental makeup standpoint. Walter Nolan, I think is a little riskier, but when you see him get into the backfield, very, very impressive. I think that those two stand out.

Kenneth Grant is another one that is not of that profile, but if you are that big and you move like that, and I can put you in a spot with pass rushers around you, sort of like the planets circling the sun, that's got my attention as well, because I think that Vita via type of player does have a lot of value. And when I look at someone like Dexter Lawrence, maybe it's a reach to compare anybody to Dexter, but he didn't come in the league as this eight, 10 sack guy.

But the athleticism and the size and the freakishness was there. And that developed actually under, uh, your old friend, Andre Patterson there. Uh, once he went to New York. So Grant, I'm not sure if he makes it to the Vikings, but I think should be in that discussion, even though he's not the same as a Derek Carman or Walter. No, I have a great Kenneth Grant story. So I was at Michigan's pro day. Um, right. We were up there. I have a client up there. They call him up to run the 40. He walks to the 40 start line, walks 30 yards up the line,

puts his hand in the dirt, runs a 10. It was incredible, dude. And all the scouts were kind of looking around at each other. And there's head coaches there. I mean, the Browns head coach, Stefanski was there, Mike McDaniel was there. Like, you saw the coaches just start laughing. All the scouts were losing them. I thought, I thought you were going to run a 4. Like, you know, he just walked so slowly, like took his time, set up, and just ran a 10. It was fantastic. But he's a guy, I don't, I don't think he makes it to 24. You know, based off the film, he's chasing down running backs and quarterbacks and closing the distance very quickly.

But I agree with you, he is a fantastic run defender as well as a, not a great pass rusher, but he's a very good run defender. He can disrupt with push. He needs to develop a little bit more with his pass rushing skills. But the explosiveness, the length, he's a guy that's going to be able to plug and play and just the needles pointed straight up. I like Harmon. I think Harmon, I watched him down at the Senior Bowl. I watched his quick area, like his short area quickness, his first step when he's cross-facing guards, his ability to get guards moving laterally and then put his foot in the ground and go north and south and go through guys. He's got a lot of tools in the toolbox. Little undersized. You know, he's, he's a guy that I would worry about if Tyler Booker and Christian Derasaw were double teaming him 20 times a game,

could he hang up against that? Well, not a lot of that this year against Oregon because they were just running and gunning. And when it did show up, they did get pushed in the middle a little bit. But I do think his pass rushing ability is what's gonna push him up into the first round based off the fact that it's a passing league, right?

It's a passing league. You fall with the shortcomings in the run game so that you can get to the quarterback. Well, and look at someone like Hargrave, like Hargrave is not a big guy, but technique is such a huge part and explosiveness are such huge parts to getting in the backfield. And a lot of teams. I don't think the Vikings are necessarily like this because they were so good against the run last year.

But a lot of teams do have the mentality of stopping the run on the way to sack in the quarterback. I go running back. I'll tackle him. And, uh, Harmon missed a lot of tackles that's been brought up. And I think that was part of it is his job was to go get the quarterback and, oh, I got into the backfield and a running back dodge me. I'm not so concerned about that, but you're not talking about someone who is six foot five and 340 pounds that is just going to anchor that.

So it might be what their thought is stylistically. I mean, I agree with you that Grant likely won't be there, especially when you look at his pressure numbers and his past rush win rate. They're actually quite good. Just that other guy next to him got the sacks a lot, but you see him. You see him winning up front. You're right though. He is such a good prospect that I think he goes earlier.

If it comes down to this, where it could be very interesting. If it comes down to whether you have Booker or Derek Harmon or say, Malachi Starks, who is the best safety on the board. Do you make that decision to go with your favorite one of those guys? Or do you say, why don't we trade down a couple of spots and see if we could still grab our favorite one? I think what we don't know is behind the scenes, they have their board and one of these guys is ranked higher than the consensus. We just don't know which one. And I kind of think Booker might be that guy.

The consensus really dropped on him after the combine, but I don't know the teams look at guard like that, but we just don't know which one of these guys they think is actually a top 15 type of prospect that when he gets to them, they could have to decide whether to take them or trade down. I agree. If all three of those guys are still standing there at 24 for whatever reason, they're top three, let's say whoever in whatever order they have it, and all three of those guys are still sitting there at 24, I'm trading down. Now I'm trading down because I'm going,

I could still probably pick up one of those three that we have ranked right now later and get another draft picked with it. I'm trading down. Now if one of those guys is left, you just take him at 24. If you were like, hey, we were right, the league was right, we all were right on all these guys, my only one that I have of my top three first rounders that I wanted is there, then I take it 100%. The hard question will be if there's two guys left. If there's two guys left at that spot, what do we do now? Do we roll the dice and say, hey, we might still be able to get them if we trade into the top of the second, or are we going to have to just say, Hey, we might still be able to get them if we trade into the top of the second? Or are we gonna have to just say, Hey, if we lose both these guys,

we're okay with it? That's the risk reward factor factor that comes in with trading during the draft. And a lot of that will have to be done on the other internal side of, Hey, who's picking after us? What do they need? Who do they like? Who did they bring in for a 30? Right? All that stuff plays into that. It's such a chess game when you decide to roll the dice and trade down. If you have a guy right there, ready to pick Vikings,

historically have liked to do that. They've liked to try and trade down, accumulate more draft picks later in the draft and still try and get their guy. Yeah. And when quasi-adaphalmense mentality will be fascinating to look at here because he's gone both ways in drafts. One time he trades way down and it didn't work out, but that doesn't mean

you should never trade down again. And another time he sticks and picks and another time he trades up. And I do think that when you have a roster that is so complete that you start thinking about, well, who could be a future game changer, who could be a future pro bowler that we just set it and forget it for the next, you know, five to seven plus years. If someone they think has that talent, if it's Malachi Starks, if it's Tyler Booker, then you just stick and pick and don't worry about anything else. But the theory on odds is that you should trade down, right? The sacrifice from going from 24 to 30 or something is not necessarily all that big odds wise. If you go to 40, okay, but maybe just a few spots down a delicate dance that he will have

to do on draft night. And the biggest drama will be when I'm live streaming and trying to like, are we going to get a pick here tonight or are we not? Uh, and then, you know, a four hour live stream with no draft pick would really be something. Not that I don't endorse the trade down. So let me just ask you one more thing and then I have a totally different topic for you. What is your hottest present draft take? Doesn't have to be with the Vikings, could be on a player, could be on any sort of situation.

Do you have a hot one for me? I mean, I don't know if it's extremely hot, but I think that all the top three quarterbacks in this class don't even crack the top five in last year's quarterback class. Right? I think that if you look at who the top five quarterbacks were last year, and then you compare it to the top three this year, which in my opinion is Cam Ward, Chedur, and Jackson Dart, I'm not drafting either one of those guys above Caleb, Drake, Jaden Daniels, Bo Nix and probably Pennex. Right? I think those five. And so it's, it's a tough spot to be for the Titans and the Browns. And then those guys are like, we need a quarterback. But I don't love

these, like, I don't think any of these guys are going to turn out to be even what those guys were last year. Those guys turned out to be really good players in the league. And so I don't love this year's quarterback class. Like Jackson Dart should not be getting mocked in the late first to that piece there. I just don't think he's that talented, but you get with what you take here. So I just don't think it's a very good quarterback class. I don't anticipate a lot of success from any of these rookie quarterbacks. It's a very good quarterback class. I don't anticipate a lot of success from any of these rookie quarterbacks. I have not been super sold on cam ward. Uh, I think that the pocket work is really messy from him, but he does have, he does have a live arm and a lot of experience and maybe he

could step into the league and play right away as we saw from a pen X or a bone X, the rest of them should or Sanders, it just feels like there's a very limited ceiling there because if you run, I mean, what do you think he runs? Like a four, seven, five, eight, four, seven, five. I mean, for as much scrambling as he tried to do in college and your Nebraska Huskers took full advantage of that. She's going to get sacked a ton.

So is the ball actually going to come out? Sacks have not been very friendly from transitioning from college to the NFL. That's one of the things you're usually most frightened of. And Dart and the other guy from Louisville or what I feel like those are third round draft picks. I mean, if somebody does it, I don't know, but that's where I would probably have them.

So the lack of intrigue in general about this draft, I mean, maybe you could have a discussion about Cam Ward versus Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy and Pennex last year, but I think Pennex was a lot better of a prospect. McCarthy was the wild card as we talked about many times because you just hadn't played that much, but the upside was there. Ward has played a ton and you've kind of seen all the warts that are there as well.

Well, let's talk about McCarthy though. As the other thing I wanted to discuss, we have moved our way past at least for now, seemingly the Aaron Rodgers discussion. Yes. Thank you. Everyone. Mark Wilf was pretty definitive down at the owners meetings. JJ McCarthy's our quarterback going forward.

Pittsburgh continues to flirt with Rodgers. I wish them the best of luck with all that. Rogers may not play because nobody wants the circus. You have played in the National Football League. You've played with Josh Allen played with Cam Newton played with Sam Bradford. What are these guys have in common? Highly drafted NFL quarterbacks. Give me some advice for JJ McCarthy. You've been there. You've been in those huddles. You've seen those super talented quarterbacks. Give me some advice for JJ McCarthy. You've been there.

You've been in those huddles. You've seen those super talented quarterbacks that were drafted in the top 10. What if Mr. McCarthy called you up and said, Hey, Jeremiah, tell me what I need to do to be a great NFL quarterback. What would you tell him? First thing is become best friends with Ryan Kelly. Right.

You and Ryan Kelly need to have one brain together, right? That dude has played an unbelievable amount of football. He's seen everything that can come his way. Find what you can put on his shoulders to not have to put on yours. Because you are still technically a rookie in everyone's eyes. Everyone's eyes, yes, you, you were in the league last year, but you never played a snap. You are still a rookie in the eyes of the NFL, which means in the eyes of defensive coordinators, they're going to come after you like you're a rookie. So find the balance of, Hey, Ryan, in protections, have at it. If I see something, we'll have a conversation. If not, be there, roll with it. Right? I need to stay focused on this lab that KOC has put in front of me from the passing game that I need to make sure I'm on everything with Addison and Jefferson and Hawkinson

and be there on that front. So just making those relationships, I think, for him is going to be things of chemistry. Right? And you talked about this last year at training camp. You felt like he started developing some chemistry with the people around him. Well, now when it's your job and you're the guy, it's a different level of chemistry. Because it's now just not chemistry. Oh, like, I like that guy. It's I trust that guy in every fiber of my being that he's going to run the right route, I'm going to put the ball where it needs to be, and he's going to catch it. Right? There's so much more that comes into it now. And you're the first, the number one quarterback going into camp. It's not a, it's not a competition anymore. Like, you are going to be scrutinized as much as anyone on the football team. Block out the noise. Put the shoulders. Trust the people around you. Right? Don't listen to

anyone outside that building besides the people that you have inside your inner circle of players, and let them be your voice of truth. Kevin O'Connell and the vets on that offense will be your voice of truth. Block out everything else. I, that's where I was going to head with this from having covered successful quarterbacks. What always amazed me about Kirk Cousins was no matter what happened, no matter who was debating him, no matter who was criticizing him, he could have the worst game you have ever seen in your life. And then the next week he comes back, plays great. And we know that there was some limitations with cousins and all that,

that we went over for six years, but, uh, that always impressed me. It the best example I could think of is 2019 week four, they're playing Chicago. They lose to chase Daniel and it's 16 to six. They couldn't have played worse. He got killed by a keem Hicks and you know, Khalil Max strip sack. It was just horrible. And then digs pulls truth to all rumors, skips practice. ESPN is criticizing him because he was doing a podcast and apologized to Adam Thielen for overthrowing him on a pass. That could have been a difference making play, but he overthrew him and said he apologized. And then overthrowing him on a pass that could have been a difference making play, but he overthrew him and said he apologized.

And then they called him a weenie for apologizing. And it was a ridiculous controversy and all that sort of stuff. And this guy went out next game, played one of the best games of the year, got the back on track. They ended up going to the playoffs. It was just like, most all of us

under that sort of scrutiny and drama and everything else would melt down in our lives. And Kirk was able to just keep going. And I would say that for JJ McCarthy, take your cell phone and remove every social media app. Have your manager, whoever, post little cute pictures of you if that's what you really want to do or answer your messages. But do not look at what people are saying. Do not watch that TV. Just focus on what you got to do because any distractions he has no idea. It's not like that in Michigan when you're on a winning team. And I know we went through the hardball thing. It's not even close. It's not even close for the distractions that exist in the NFL. And every person in your life has an opinion

on what you should be doing, what your teammates should be doing, all that sort of stuff. Close it all out and focus on what you have to do. Now here's my other question for you based on your experience. I get this question all the time from fans just on mine covering you guys is like what makes the difference between a draft pick comes in and succeeds or fails and you in offensive line rooms you saw some draft picks come in and some worked and some didn't for sure. What was the difference in your position group specifically about which guys that were drafted came in and fit and assimilated themselves and became good players

and others who dropped off the mat. Yeah, you know, the number one thing is understanding that respect is earned, not given in the NFL. Regardless, if you're a first round pick or an undrafted free agent, you have to earn the respect of the veterans in the room because we've been there. We've been through the wars. We've been through the cussings. We've been through the good, we've been through the cussings, we've been through the good days, the bad days. And if you've never been through that with us, don't come in talking like you know what the life in the NFL is. But if you sit down and you show us as veterans, Hey, I'm here to work, and I'm here to help this team get better, we're going to

give you that respect, right? We don't want to not respect you. I think that's sometimes people think, Oh, no, you don't want to respect the rookie. Like, No, we people think, Oh, no, you don't want to respect the rookie. Like, No, we want to respect the rookie if he can help us. If he can't help us, then we're going to throw him in the back of the line and never think about him again. Right? Because we have a job here to do, and it's to win. And if you can't help us, then get off the tracks. And so the best rookies I was around, guys like Pat F. Line was fantastic. He came in, he knew he was going to be in a battle with, I think it was Nick Easton or at the time. And he just never whined about it. He just went out there and goes, Hey, I'm just gonna battle Linville Joseph every single day. I'm gonna get my reps. I wasn't afraid to ask Joe Berger, a guy that's been in the league for 13 years at the

time, Hey, how can I do this better? How can I help? Right. He wasn't afraid. He was in the weight room. He was lifting. He was doing all the little things right, which then led us to going, All right, you're gonna help us win. Come on, come with us. Go over here. Versus we had guys that, and they were nowhere to be found, first in, last out, or last in, first out type of guys, right, didn't show up to stuff on time or missing, missing meetings or, Hey, oh, I had to take a piss, so I was 5 minutes late to meeting. Like that stuff's just not acceptable in the NFL. And that just is people not around you telling you the right ways to do it. But you only get one shot at this. And if you piss off the coach or you piss off the veterans in the room, you have a full uphill battle to go. So know as a rookie, hey, we want to accept you, we want to bring you in. But you have to understand that you're a rookie and you're at the bottom of the totem pole. You're no longer a top dog like you were

when you were in college. You have to start all over. And some guys can't handle that. Some guys are like, no, I still am the top dog. No, you're not, man. This guy's making 30 million a year. He's the top dog, right? That's the alpha in the room,

regardless of what you think or not. Earn your stripes, earn those things, and then the rest will come. Yeah, it's remarkable how similar it could be to other workplaces because you guys don't spend a lot of time actually playing football. You spend a lot of time in meeting rooms and in weight rooms and being around each other and together. And if somebody doesn't fit within the pack, it really stands out with that person. doesn't fit within the pack, it really stands out with that person. I think it's a lot harder for them to play catch up.

And I think the preparation to I saw Ted McMillan saying that he didn't watch film or whatever. He only watches film in the building. And you're like, first of all, maybe you don't say that to people. But second of all, if that's how you handle yourself in the NFL, if you're just like, oh, I'll just go to the meetings and I'll be fine. Okay. Well, you're not going to succeed.

Then nobody is physically gifted enough to not do that. And I think that's one of the big issues with offensive lineman is like, Oh, I just, I just dominate people like not anymore. You don't cause Aaron Donald will kill you with his bare hands. And every one of those guys has more experience than you. The D line. That's something we don't think about a lot D lineman. If you're good, you'll be in the league for 10 years 12 years. Those guys have experience.

I mean, if you're coming in as a rookie, that person has seen everything. They've studied you. They've looked back. They know everything about you by the time you arrive on game day. You better know everything about them or you're going to be in trouble. The other thing too, this is because I think what you said is completely dead on, but there's another part of it too, where sometimes you just don't have the heart for it.

The guts for it because as nice as you are, you had to be crazy to play. You have to be a little nuts. You have to be a little crazy. And if you don't have that crazy, I feel like even from the sideline of training camp, we could tell like, I don't know if that guy's got Wyatt Davis was a great example. It's like super nice guy. And I'm sure he could go have a career being a CEO or whatever it was. That guy did not have it. Like he did not have that violence, that crazy,

like I'm going to fight you in a phone booth or whatever it is. There's just gotta be enough of that in there wherever it might be in order to succeed because it's scary out there, man. Lindvold Joseph, how do I explain to someone what he really looks like in person? Like, yes, Mr. Joseph, I'd like to please interview you, but, but if you don't want to do it, that's totally fine. And I'll back off over there.

Like, I mean, just grunts at you and you're like, sorry, my fine. And I'll back off over there. Like, I mean, this just grunts at you. You're sorry. Bye. I'll get back to you. Think about this, though. Like at one time with you guys in 17, it's like Linval Joseph is the biggest and strongest man I've ever seen in my life. Daniel Hunter is chiseled from the gods.

Right. And then Tom Johnson was crazy also in a great way, in a super complimentary way. But he was, I mean, he was like a violent dude. And then Everson we know is as a violent and lightning fast and technically skilled as any defensive end in the league, like, welcome to the welcome to practice my guy, look who you're going to have to play against here. to have to play against here. Yeah, and that's the other piece that I was going to mention as I was thinking about it more as you were talking, you have to be able to not let failure ruin you. Because it's exactly like you said, there's going to be a day where you just get dragged up and down the field. It's going to happen, right? That's the NFL. You're, you're going to get got. It's going to happen. But if you just let that compound as a rookie and you're like, Oh my gosh, I can't play with these guys. Like I just can't do it. They're just, you're toast. You're dead. And that's part of the mentality thing that you mentioned is all offensive linemen are pretty nice coming off. But there is a switch that we

all have that when it gets flipped, you better not say the wrong thing, right? Or else someone's gonna get hurt. And that's where I was like, how come all linemen are never in the news of like fighting in the off season? I was like, because we are all well aware that if the dog comes out of the cage at the wrong time, people die.

Right, like if I took the normal guy at the bar that mouthed off to me and I let the dog out of the cage, like he's gonna be broken in a million pieces. And that's how all of us are. And we all know that. But if you can channel that the proper way, and hey, hey, there's a time for that. And it's when I have the helmet on and the pads on. And if I get beat, so be it. I'm not gonna let happen again. But I'm gonna fight you, dude. Like you push me again one more time. Like we're gonna, we're gonna have problems. And you have to have that little bit of crazy in you and channel it the right way. If you let it channel the wrong way, which I've also seen, where it's not on the football field and all

of a sudden in the, in the locker room or in the weight room is when you decide to boast up and get tough. You're like, Do that out there. No one cares what you're saying in here. Do that on the field or else no one's gonna take you seriously. Right? And the rookies that show you that early on, you see that little bit of fight in them early on. You're like, Ooh, I like that. Like, especially the undrafted guys. Right? You see the undrafted guy that does not the talented, like most athletic freak, not that bad. He comes in and he's just fighting. And you're just like, I can live with that. I will take you with me into war, then I will with this guy who's got nothing in the tank. Right? So that mentality piece, you're dead on. You have to have that little bit of psychosis of, oh, you, you pushed me in the back on my way to the huddle. Like I won't forget that next time I see you. Don't, don't think that that's just going to roll off. Like I'm going to remember that and take that, because you guys are still on like 10 out of 10, you know, rage fighting somebody in a cage out there.

It's always a little bit like a spat after after a win. I'm more apt to do it to talk to you. All right. Hey, remember when you block the heck out of that guy? But yeah, it's a very, very delicate dynamic. So I I don't know if I've ever shared this story. I had a blood hot moment after a game where I almost got into a fistfight with Adrian Peterson.

So it was after I know what game I know what game you want me to. Yeah. Twenty sixteen cults. Colts game. No, it wasn't really. Twenty sixteen Dallas Cowboys. Oh, yeah. 2016 Dallas Cowboys. A little incident there. So two point conversion, right?

We go for it. Nick Easton doesn't stop the ball because he didn't hear it. I jump off sides. I look at Sam like it was on one, right? And Sam's like, yeah, it was on one like whole thing, right? Flags, booze, rain down, whatever it is. Next play. We don't convert, we end up losing the game. And I remember I come in the locker room, and I'm in

my, I'm in the locker just still full pads, like just blood is boiling. Can't believe we just lost that game. And I hear some mumbling down next to, if you remember where the old locker room was in, like, where the, this is still the locker room, right? O linemen are here, running backs are right next to us. And I hear some rumbling over there between the running backs and I just hear,

our O line effing sucks, right? Like that's just something I heard. I wasn't sure who said it, I just heard it. And so I stand up, right? Blood's a boiling, I go, who just said that, right? And I start walking over there and Adrian stood up and he goes, I said it. And immediately in my brain, I go,

that's, this isn't gonna end well for me. Or like that's Adrian Peterson. And immediately in my brain, I go, that's, this isn't going to end well for me. Or like that's Adrian Peterson. And I was like, but I'm in it, right? I'm in it. The crazy switch has been flipped. So I was like, well, hope someone stops me before I get there. Right. And so I'm running over there and eventually like it all stopped and it all got

shook hands afterwards and like, it was fine. But you know, that's still kind of that moment where you're in that fight mode where I didn't care that that was Adrian Peterson at the moment. Right. Like that's a Hall of Famer, one of the greatest players to ever play. And I heard something and I stood up and I was like, I'm not going to stand for that. I don't care. I'm in the NFL. I'm a player in this. I protect those dudes next to me. I'm going for it. You got to have some of that in you, right? And again, Adrian and I squashed it. It wasn't a big deal. He was upset. Everyone was upset, right? And things are said. But those are the type of things that I remember from my career, Like, I had to have that in me. And I still have that in me to this day, that I've been better at putting a box on it. It's why I can't play church league basketball anymore, because I tried to fight an 18 year old. Like, I can't do it anymore, because there is still moments that that stuff comes out. that that stuff comes out. It's funny.

My my wife is banned from playing one on one with me in basketball because she is like that. She played college basketball and she's crazy like that in a competitive way. But the reason I was guessing the Colts game was because that was such a mess with Adrian coming back and there was a lot of drama inside the locker room with that. But the game that you mentioned, great football game, by the way, for Thursday Night Football, I'm sure you looked super funny in the great party. The party suits.

Yeah. The giant Barney suits. I'll fight you this six foot five guy looking just very bright and purple looking like Prince out there. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. That was a, that was a crazy game though.

That was Zimmer not coaching because of the eyeball, pre-fur and poor Adam Thiel. That was as upset of a locker room as I can remember because not only did Thielen drop the punt. So he's over on one side of the locker room, devastated, talking to us. And then on the other side, uh, there's the, uh, the incident where, um, Bradford gets hit in the face as he's trying to throw the pass and it wasn't called and everyone's going what what is going on here they think that should have been a fifth well you know whatever a penalty and giving you another chance what a what a crazy time that was but that's that I would say is

that the last thing I want to say about that for making it not making it you better be ready to handle some stuff like because these seasons are insane. It was a 14 win season last year and yet still drama ups and downs all sorts of stuff that you go through. How about what a 10 win season is? How about an every single NFL locker room? You better not lose your head when you're going through that. And that's the big JJ McCarthy thing. Like there might be two weeks in a row where everyone suddenly

says you're the worst quarterback in the league. That happened to Darnold last year. I mean, that Jacksonville game. I mean, you got you got people, national people being like they should go sign Chad Henney or something. He's so bad. Yeah, that's the nature of the NFL, man. And I had a strength coach in college that I thought he had the best way to say, like, you have to be the thermostat, not the thermometer. Right. And that is as true as a statement as can be, because at one point in time, you're all gonna,

you're gonna run hot, you're gonna run cold, it's gonna be up. But if you can just find a way to balance myself out, right, good, bad or ugly, because that 16-year was, is up and down to years I've ever been a part of in my entire life. And, I mean, inner conflicts in the locker room, to successes, successes. Like you have to be able to manage that for 18 weeks. Like this isn't college. This isn't, oh, we get to Christmas and we get to tell we're going into winter conditioning, right? You got to handle that stuff for 18 weeks and it's a mental grind as much as a physical. Hey, before we wrap up, just because 16 has been brought up, could you guys see the person hanging from the roof in the dangling?

100% Hanging, but dangling? Okay. Yeah. I remember on the field, we were like, what's happening? Like we were, we were playing Chicago and I remember like all of a sudden people are cleared out and it was a TV timeout and someone pointed and there's like, we're all looking up like, what's, is it maintenance? Is someone fixing something up there in the middle of the game? What's, what's going on? And then afterwards like, no, it was a protest. That's weird. Like then it started getting us thinking like, dude, what have you got?

Right. Like all of us in the locker room. We're like, right. He would have just been open season on us up there. Like it just got it got weird quick. I I walked out of the bathroom. It was because I think it was after an extra point or something. And I just walked out of the bathroom and I saw somebody and I was like. What what am I seeing? What am I seeing? I think it was after an extra point or something. And I just walked out of the bathroom and I saw somebody and I was like,

what, what am I seeing? What am I saying? And I took a picture of it and I was like, that person is not supposed to be there. And I had no idea what they were doing or why they were there. And then we get there into the press box and one of the reporters figured out what the person's deal was based on what they were protesting with that giant sign and a Brian Murphy who's on this show all the time. And so Brian found their phone number and called them. So as a person in a Brett Favre Jersey, and they were dangling off the roof, and people have never seen, I think, video of this, because I think the broadcast was like not showing it.

Never showed it. So Murph gets on the phone and the person answers. They're dangling and he's like asking them questions. Like, what are you doing? Why are you there? And they're not really answering coherently, but it was just like what? And there was three of us for 1500 ESPN. I was working for the time.

They're like, somebody's got to stay behind and see what happens here because the game ends. They decided to just clear out the section in case they fell to their death. It was like, maybe we should have stopped the game ends, they decided to just clear out the section in case they fell to their death. It was like, maybe we should have stopped the game. I think they should have stopped the game. Really, we were saying playing. We were like, how are we just going to like, it's like the wish of like, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Right. Like, don't don't acknowledge the man hanging from the rafters.

Like, it's third Nate. Like, how am I supposed to happy Gilmore? Like, how am I supposed to chip with this going on? It was very distracting because you get up on the sideline and kind of like go through third Nate. Like how am I supposed to pack it? Happy Gilmore. Like how am I supposed to chip with this going on? It was very distracting because you get up on the sideline and kind of like go through your correction. You're like, oh yeah, he's still up there. So weird. So the after the game though, here's what was really stupid after the game. So obviously we know that you guys could see a human being dangling

from the roof, but every player and Zimmer was like, yeah, I don't know. We were just playing the game. And they're like, come on, guys. But this is one of the weirdest thing that's ever happened. But it was a horrible game. And Matt Barkley caught a touchdown pass and it was just, you know, everybody was ready to be done and didn't want to talk about it. It was like I just wondered what it was like on the sideline

because we've never had it pop up. But what I mean, what a way to end that. That was the perfect exclamation point on the end of that terrible train wreck season. Get ready for the NFL, everybody coming to the league. I'm sure you're very excited. Anyway, well, this was tremendous as expected, Jeremiah. So we'll probably talk again either right before the draft or maybe right after and we could talk about a guard but it will be really fun seeing the last piece put on this Vikings roster so I appreciate your time sir absolutely looking forward to the draft season being over for my job I bet you I and for mine as well all right football football