Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Jeremiah Sirles still isn't sold on the J.J. McCarthy plan

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

Matthew Coller is joined by former Vikings lineman Jeremiah Sirles to discuss the Vikings draft plans and why Sirles still isn't on board with drafting Michigan QB J.J. McCarthy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here with you and returning to the show for a rare off-season appearance, busy with clients and so forth during draft season. But I have wrangled Jeremiah Searles because Jeremiah, almost every day I get a message from Minnesota Vikings fans wanting to know, has Jeremiah Searles come around to the idea of the Vikings drafting J.J. McCarthy? Because back during the early parts of draft season, right when the season ended for the Vikings, we talked a lot about your mild concerns about the Vikings' potential interest in the Michigan quarterback. To say you are not a fan of the idea would be putting it lightly. So have you come around to the potential of JJ McCarthy as a Minnesota Viking? I mean, I don't know, Matt. Have we played another season?

Is there new tape that I have yet to see? Is there new information other than Jim Harbaugh sitting in front of a microphone like this going, all I'm going to say is by the time draft rolls around, don't be surprised if he's one up there ever since that moment but no other real information has changed other than like wow he threw really far at his pro day that was neat like i just still am not sold and maybe in i'm with you and i remember your statement on this when we recorded back in January. Like, I'm going to have my opinions about the quarterback, but whoever KOC picks and whoever KWC picks and they become purple,

I'm not going to sit there and poo-poo all over the kid before he takes a snap in the NFL. I can have my opinions. I hope everyone proves me wrong. I hope everyone that says it's a bust is not a bust. That's just how my – I hope that for everyone. Reality, not the real case. But I'm still not sold that he's the guy from Minnesota. I'm just not, I'm not sold that he's

the skillset that KOC is looking for that fits into this offense. That is a rhythm timing ball out that type of thing. Not saying he can never be that, but if you take a guy as high as they're talking about taking him, there's no more like, well, Sam Darnold's going to play. It's like play it's like no sam darnold's gonna be called starter until week two of training camp and then jj mccarthy or whoever is going to be named the starter just because that's the way the world works in the nfl i have major concerns about jj mccarthy still being that guy well and i think that the concerns are reasonable considering it's not as easy to lean on the statistics like you have with some other quarterbacks or even the blatantly obvious skill set i mean if we were talking about caleb williams you just gesture at caleb williams and all right watch about five of his highlight

plays and there you go with drake may there is a little more discussion about him. There are some analysts who don't like how messy his tape can be at times, but also you don't have to squint to see all the skills. You see him dropping dimes down the sideline 40 yards down the field. You see the playmaking. You see a guy who can break tackles and make plays on the run and all that sort of stuff that you see in the NFL all the time. Whereas when you talk about comparisons to JJ McCarthy, you end up with them being down a notch from the other quarterbacks. The one that I came up with was Matt Hasselbeck, where the guy

was a pretty athletic. It was a bit of a playmaker and he had some really successful seasons with the Seattle Seahawks, but there wasn't this, hey, no matter what, he is inevitable. You are not going to stop Matt Hasselbeck. But he was a good and winning quarterback. And if we were starting out with a talk me into, I guess I would have to try to talk you into J.J. McCarthy. And the way that I would do it is just to say that he is on the younger side and he does have the physical skills to scramble and make plays to throw on the run.

And if Kevin O'Connell sat in a room with him and thought, this guy's going to master my offense in about two seconds, even if he does not have the free go skill, you can have a lot of success with that in the NFL, especially when the guy has a rookie quarterback contract. I think that's the best argument is that he could develop some of the talents that he has. And if he's in lockstep with Kevin O'Connell and they're one-to-one together working over the next five years to try to win a championship with everything you have around them, it gives you a pretty darn good chance to win as a team. Yeah, and that's the thing that none of us are privy to.

None of us are privy to those guys sat in the meeting room for, I'm going to guess, multiple hours. Like multiple. I mean, how did he respond to that? And that's something that we'll have no idea about. And that's something we'll have no idea about with any of the quarterbacks they sat down. I mean, they sat down with five of the six top quarterbacks in this draft. And I'm sure every single interview was exactly the same, right?

Because that's the only way you can truly grade these guys on an individual basis is if you ask them the same questions, you pull up the same tape, the same plays, everything from the NFL side. Now, looking at their tape will be different and seeing how they process what they knew in college but when you pull up the nfl tape and say here's our system here's what we look at how do you identify this coverage or what are you seeing when we snap the ball here and this is an option route like what receivers should do here and depending on how well he answered those questions will depend how quickly can he assimilate to an nfl offense and that's just something that none of it no draft analyst, no coach, no college, anything. The only people who will know that are the guys that sat down

in a meeting room with those guys. And you can hear reports of he did well, he did poorly. But at the end of the day, no one knows the true answer to that. And so, yeah, if he sat down and knocked that stuff out of the park, I think there's enough skill set there to project yeah he could be the guy but when you're talking about top five pick there can't be any question mark there's no inflection in the end of your voice when you say yeah jj mccarthy could win us a super bowl right it's got to be no jj mccarthy can lead us to the super bowl period end of statement and that's where I get concerned with him versus a Drake May or even a Caleb Williams

Jaden Daniels even in there I know you that's your love affair and that's been your love child since December I don't know if you've changed your tune on him at all but you know that's another guy that you talk about a raw athletic skill set totally different ballpark than JJ McCarthy yeah with Jaden Daniels, I have not changed my tune because I watched him play football and it was amazing. The only thing I have wondered about is just his fit with Kevin O'Connell's offense. Not that I don't think he could understand it. It's just, can he operate it in rhythm? And O'Connell talks all the time. And even he was discussing this yesterday with processing,

where he gave us kind of a one-on-one breakdown of how he views processing, because you hear it constantly in the draft analysis world. And it's essentially being able to understand where everything is supposed to be and operate it on time, to be able to see a defense, understand where everything is on offense, direct everything on offense, and then get the ball to the right place, which is insanely hard to do consistently. And the reason that Kevin O'Connell was probably a little sad when Kirk Cousins left, because he knew that that guy could process at the highest level and run everything he wants to run. Can Jaden Daniels do that? Because what I saw from him was a little bit of delay, a little

bit of, I've got to see that guy come out of the break before I throw the ball, not the anticipation throwing. And a lot of his success is just heaving the ball downfield to awesome receivers. So is that going to look kind of like Tyrod Taylor, except for with Lamar Jackson's legs, which you could certainly win with. But I don't know if that's Kevin O'Connell's preference. That's why I think McCarthy could be his preference. And also Drake May as well, who played less of that in college, but has the skill that looks so much like Matthew Stafford that it just makes so much sense to me.

But no, I think that any of those three quarterbacks, whether it's McCarthy, Daniels, or Drake May, you could see them dropping into this offense and having a lot of success, which is why even if I'm, it's like levels of skepticism, but none of those levels would I say, I confidently pound the table and say, this won't work. That guy will be a bust. Like that. There's not going to be any of that from me. But what I wanted to ask you is the percentage chance you think that these things happen. We've kind of been presented with all these options. They could do this, trade that, let it ride, you know, draft 23rd as a

quarterback. So let's go through some of these things, percentage chances that you think they happen. And why don't we start with McCarthy? What is the percentage chances that you think they happen and why don't we start with McCarthy what is the percentage chance that you think that they trade up and I'll add in trade up including the 2025 first round pick in order to draft JJ McCarthy give me a one to a hundred percent chance are we saying that the top three are off the board are we saying that the quarterbacks go one two three right Caleb Drake Jaden presumably you're factoring that into your percentage chance like that okay so I'm factoring that in I give it about a 70 chance oh wow and and the reason I say that is because panic sets in on draft day like panic truly sets in especially if you have a plan and then as those picks start to fall right now

one then two then three and as long as nothing is deviating from the plan that you had you start worrying like okay is four gonna be there is someone else gonna trade up before me right like is there someone else navigating in the corner a la the Denver Broncos like are they trying to do something are the Raiders trying to do something are the Raiders trying to and you start to panic and you swirl yourself into we have to do this because we don't have the quarterback of the future and if we've convinced ourselves that JJ is the guy then we have to do it and I'm saying for this scenario they've convinced themselves that JJ is QB4 in this draft right right? They've convinced themselves that do I

believe that? Probably not. But if they believe it and that chance, then there's a 70% chance that I say we have to go get our guy, right? And KOC looks at crazy and goes, that's the one. He's the guy. Then yeah, they're going to transfer and they're going to get everything up there to try and go trade in at five or four and try and go get their guy, which is JJ. But I still think Michael Penix is a great option. I still think that if you aren't fully 100% convinced that JJ McCarthy can win us a Super Bowl period, then you don't sell the farm for that guy. Okay, you give me one.

What do you want me to give you a percentage on? What's the percentage that we don't trade up and we end up looking at a quarterback at 23. Oh, 23. I thought you were going to address your 11. We take an address at 11 and we're going, okay,

we think that we can snag one of these later quarterbacks because we've sat down with them. We'd believe in them. And we know that we don't have to invest the 23rd, the 11th pick, but we still think he'll be there at 23. 23 is so risky though because then you're saying to the raiders you're not going to draft our guy you're saying to a wild card team

i mean what if even seattle had eyes on michael pennix for example and then you just miss that and then you're going uh spencer rattler i guess um although from what the draft analysis world tells you maybe spencer rattler goes higher than we think i i don't know there's some people that really like him in the league i think he's short and not fast and that's going to be a problem for him and has almost no production that is good that is true so probably more of a middle round draft pick but that what would they do if other teams just took their quarterbacks? If that was their plan to stay at 23, then they go, well, we got two elite players and no quarterback, uh, that would blow up everything I've thought of Kweisi Adafo

Mensah's plan, which I believe has come together really, really nicely, including acquiring number 23 to give them options to do a lot of different stuff. But sitting at 23 and just what do you say about being nervous, squeezing your butt or whatever? Yeah, clenching your butt. The butthole clenchings. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't want to say it, but I'll say it.

That's what it would be like for all of those picks. So I'm going to go 12% chance. I mean, this was in a Peter Schrager mock for whatever, you know, a mock is worth going into the draft. But I just can't see it. I just feel like it's way too risky for them unless they believe that no one else except for them loves Bo Nix, for example, which is who Peter Schrager has in the mock. If they're thinking, all right, those other quarterbacks will be taken. Our guy is still going to sit there, but I'm going to go less than 10%. I just think that they did not move on from Kirk Cousins, plan this for three years to just sit around at the end

of the first and take a guy who's worth the 23rd overall pick. How about this for a percentage from you? What is the percent chance that the New York Giants go up and steal away the Minnesota Vikings quarterback? If the top three go 1, 2, 3, and then we're sitting there thinking, all right, it's time. Here comes, Quasey's going to cook and all that. And then, wait, what? The Giants have traded three firsts up to get J.J. McCarthy? What's the percentage chance that we're all kind of surprised that the Giants beat the Vikings to the spot?

I'm going to go with like a 15% chance. You know, I really do think that Dable likes Daniel Jones, right? I don't think that Joe Sheen and the front office of the Giants gave him that extension last year just off a whim and because like they felt like they had to, right? You don't invest that type of money into a quarterback unless you truly believe in him. Now the injury is what it is. Quarterbacks get injured, but I think that they have a good belief in Daniel Jones and that pick can build weapons for Daniel Jones right and it also that pick can build you weapons that in a year from now once Daniel Jones it's like there's a chance and out

maybe in his contracts not as big as a cap hit those type of things then you can maybe reassess that position but I really think the Giants are looking at a roster that is full of holes especially at the wide receiver position a roster that is full of holes especially at the wide receiver position a roster that needs a lot of help and that if they still have the big belief in Daniel Jones they're just going to go try and bolster the weapons around him to give him a legitimate chance to be there because as much as we can bag on Daniel Jones for last year that offense was a disaster right they started like 11 different offensive linemen their wide receiver one was Jalen Hyatt who was a third round rookie right Darren Waller experiment failed completely

now Saquon Barkley is gone so you can't have that bell cow to lean on like they have more holes in the roster than just the quarterback position and so I don't think that they're looking at that of let's go steal a quarterback for the future as much as Dable and Joe Sheen are going, I wish I have a job in two years. So let's get some talent and try and go win some football games with a quarterback that we believe is top 20 in the league when he's healthy. It's not worth trying to replace that when there's really good talent sitting there at the, at five where they pick. I think maybe the giants might do it for one of the top three quarterbacks if they had their chance yeah if the Patriots said all right we'll take six overall

and you know your next year's first or something to move up a couple spots because we want Malik neighbors instead we don't want to draft quarterback or maybe they love McCarthy and think he'd be there at six or whatever option it would be. Then they might do it. But for McCarthy, I'm not sure that they would. In part, because if I'm the owner of the Giants and my people in charge give Daniel Jones one of the biggest contracts in the NFL and then turn around and tell me, you know, actually we changed our mind. We want to trade up to draft a quarterback.

I'm like, you guys know what you're doing? Just historically speaking, the Philadelphia Eagles, I think think are the exception to this with jalen hurts but most of the time we see teams draft a quarterback a year or so after all of us thought that they would or should or just even move on from their quarterback the raiders give Derek Carr one more year even the Vikings giving Kirk Cousins one more year after 2022 it just seems like that there's more politics than logic when it comes to the quarterback position and I think the political part of that for the Giants is guys trying to save their jobs knowing that if they then draft a quarterback at the top, people will expect that quarterback to play.

He comes in, he wins four games because the team's terrible. Everyone's fired and we have ourselves a Justin Fields situation. You know, the same kind of goes for Trubisky where everybody knew like this thing's not working, but they wrote it out one more year. It didn't work. So I think that they will kind of do the same thing with daniel jones where they're chasing that bad decision because that's just kind of how the nfl operates what you got for me all right what are the chances that what are the chances that the the vikings

trade back from a from 11 there excuse me they pick at 11 but then they trade back up higher into the first to get another receiver or an edge rusher someone else that they really have their eye on packaging 23 and maybe next year's second or maybe even next year's first to go get a wide receiver they're in love with or if all of a sudden Dallas Turner's still sitting there right an edge rusher that they feel like they could really use yeah oh well they moved next year's second to get 23. That's right. They moved. Maybe even next year's late or next year's first

or package up some deals to move back up from 23. So now we're at kind of two separate percentages. One, they would have to stick at number 11, which I think is kind of its own percentage. And that one for me is maybe 40%. I don't think it's as crazy as it's being made to sound that what I think is that all the teams at the top really want the Vikings to give them their draft capital.

And so they're saying 2025 first. Oh, we want to trade back. We really want to trade back, but you know, well, can you give us the pot of gold there? And I also believe that there's a possibility that McCarthy ends up at 11. If none of it only takes a couple teams,

not believing he's a top 10 draft pick for him to get there. It takes the giants and it takes the Vikings not wanting to trade up and it takes Denver not wanting to trade up that far. I think that the Raiders are probably too far back to be able to trade all the way up in order to get McCarthy. So only a couple teams where he could end up getting there, uh, or the Vikings move just a short, shorter trade where they go to number seven. I've kind of looked at Tennessee. There's a relationship there with Kweisi Daffolmensa and their GM anyway, all these scenarios. But I still think it's more likely than has been thought that they could stay at 11.

Now, the trade up part is less likely to me because I don't think it fits Kweisi Adafomensa's philosophy outside of the quarterback position. As we saw from 2022, we won't break that draft down down but it was clear that he was willing to move back even if some of the draft charts didn't like what he was doing and he didn't get the additional first round pick uh so i i don't know that it's in his nature to say oh yeah we're going to give this up because we believe in this edge rusher the other thing is too that because all these offensive players are going at the top all these defensive players are getting pushed down. The top 10 defensive players are all going to be taken from what?

I mean, number 14 to number 25. Atlanta probably takes one, maybe the Jets, but they're likely to get an offensive player for Aaron Rodgers. It could be nine of the first 10 being offensive players, which would allow the Vikings at 23 to stay there and pick a defensive player, which I think they would love to do. I think they would love to stick and pick at 11 and 23 if they can. So I'm going to say that part is a low percentage, but staying at 11 and kind of risking it that McCarthy will be there or it is also possible that they like Pennix or Nix more than the draft analysis world yeah I think that the

what you said on the back side that they like Pennix or Nix more you know I think back to the Brandon Bean quote when he was getting interviewed at the combine where you remember when he gave up a bunch to go up and get josh allen he got crushed for it i mean the buffalo media was not happy you know that as well as anyone they were like what is this dude doing right and he just sat there and goes yeah you know i believed in it and if it didn't work guess what wouldn't matter i was gonna be fired in two years anyways right and so if pet if if koc and those and crew have said hey really like Penix, we really think he'll be there at 11, let's keep 11, let's get Penix, or if McCarthy's still there, great, that's a huge win for us,

but Penix is a big backup choice for us in that realm. And then if he's not, then at 23, we can fill a need with a guy that's a potential top 15 talent right on the defensive side of the ball and so you know if you can stay at 11 and just feel like you can ride it out and ride that wave to get through the first and just hope that you don't see the pick is in or the pick is traded or anything like that and a name pops up I mean there's a lot of really good defensive talent that we need as a defensive on the defensive side of the ball here for Minnesota I mean obviously we've been hyper fixated on the quarterback rightfully so

but you know there's some big holes in this roster on the defensive side that we could fill with young talent that can be staples for this defense for a long time folks we all have smartphones and we know that they are pretty amazing but they they can also be amazingly distracting, especially when we're around other people. So U.S. Cellular wants us to reset our relationship with our phones by putting down our phones for five. That's right. A company that sells phones wants us to put down our phones and see what we can find. Learn more at uscellular.com slash built for us. That's uscellular.com slash built for us. Warning.

I've got this condition where I don't feel pain. You're a superhero. This is how intense Novocaine sounds. Oh, wow. Imagine how it looks. Is there more? Yeah, big time nova k only in theaters march 14th introducing the new mcspicy from mcdonald's

it looks like a regular chicken sandwich but it's actually a spicy chicken sandwich mcspicy consider yourself warned limited time only at participating m's in Canada. Okay, I have two more for you. One is percentage chance that Drake May is a Minnesota Viking. Ten. I really don't see him not being the second overall pick. I just really don't. You look at the commanders and you look at what they need, and I think we have a large enough sample size of sam howell to say he's not the guy right and everyone everyone wants to say we don't want to pick it to

again like we don't want to be in this position again but here we are and here we are and ever since patrick mahomes everyone is terrified that if they don't take the guy and he turns into the guy, they're going to be labeled as the idiots that didn't take the guy. And so I think that we live in that era now of the NFL, of fear scares people into picks. And I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve to be the second overall pick. I think he does. But I don't think the commanders can risk the fact that he's i don't think the commanders can can risk the fact that he's not right i don't think they can risk the fact that he's not and i don't think that the patriots will risk the fact that if they take jayden daniels that they're gonna pass on drake

may either i just don't see him falling out of the top three and i don't see the vikings having enough capital to get themselves into the top three well since they traded sam howell away then you're absolutely right you nailed it They do not believe in him at all. Where did he go? Was it Seattle? Did they trade him to be there? When was this? Why do I feel like I've never read about this?

Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't on my face. It wasn't a blockbuster. No, I mean, you were exactly right. They don't believe they don't believe it. Yeah. So they need a quarterback.

Yeah, that's happening. He's going. Someone's going there and it's going to be there, and it's going to be Drake May or Jane Daniels. And then Patriots, unless we're all pegging this wrong, the Patriots truly are like, nah, rebuild, not getting a quarterback. And they go take Marvin Harrison or something like that, then maybe. But I just can't see him falling out of the top three. He's just too talented.

Yeah, the Patriots are the only team that would make sense because their team is so talentless on offense. So bad. You just ruined a quarterback you drafted who showed some potential early on, and then you gave him nothing to work with, terrible coaching. You've got to do better. I'm sure Gerard Mayo, who was in the building, understands that you've got to do better. I'm sure Gerard Mayo, who was in the building, understands that you've got to do better around your quarterback. And I do think there is correlation between team strength and

quarterback success from the, the, how strong the team is that drafts that quarterback. And, you know, even with someone like Joe Burrow, for example, within a year, they were, you know, Jamar Chase, T Higgins, Tyler Boyd. You know, they had built up their defense. There's just Jalen Hurts we've seen succeed. Brock Purdy we saw succeed with this really great team. And if you're the Patriots and you look around and go, how do we come anywhere close to what those teams are able to give their quarterbacks? You better have a plan to do it in a year.

I don't know if you could acquire enough talent in a year when you've got maybe one offensive lineman worth anything, no receivers, no real running backs that are changing your life. I mean, that's, that's really hard to do. So I think there is an argument for the Patriots to move out. I would be surprised if they do, but as far as Washington goes, they have been connected over and over and over again to Jaden Daniels, but I still think that there's a chance they take May because it was so much the consensus Williams and May all the way through until Daniels won the Heisman. And then everyone went, Oh, okay. We got this other guy.

But a lot of times if we think something for that long, it is usually what comes to fruition. So I agree that the percentage is not super high. I also could see if the Patriots are willing to trade out and the Vikings having a deal with them that if Daniels goes to, then we trade the farm and everything goes to new England for Drake. May I'm going to go a little higher. I'm going to go more.

What is, what is that look like though? Like what, what are, I mean, we're giving up a lot, a lot. I mean that,

that is true. Sell everything. And if this doesn't work out, you're toast for four years. Like that, that type of trade to get to three is going to be a King's ransom. I would say the max that you could talk yourself into would be this year's two firsts and then the next year's two first 2025 and 2026 and then we are talking we are talking herschel walker territory if it

goes wrong yes yeah i mean you better be dead set i mean that is that is you have to be so so in love with the guy to give something like that up. I don't even know if that's worth giving up for a guy. I love Drake May. I love him. I think he's going to be a great NFL quarterback, but I call it the bus theory. You're praying that that dude doesn't get hit by a bus the next day, right? But I mean, that can be as much as that he gets and get a knee blown out or he doesn't get, he doesn't get the yips and all of a sudden he loses or I mean something happens and he's just not who you think he was because he can't handle the pressure of being an NFL quarterback like the question marks are everywhere and when you're giving up that kind

of draft capital you're truly handicapping your team for multiple years unless this thing's a home run and as we all know the percentages of it truly being a home run in the NFL are not always high. Okay. The last one I wanted to give you is only half kidding. What's the percentage chance we feel good about the guard play this year? I'm going to go 50, 50 on this. You know, I'm gonna go 50, 50. I I'm going gonna give ed ingram the benefit of the doubt right i'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that he's going into year three now right year three showed promise last year once they brought dalton reisner in right took a little bit more of a step up in the right direction the left guard spot is always forever and going to be a thorn in the side of what we do question mark galore i think we jinxed it when we started

this show and we're just waiting to see for someone i mean dalton reisner stepped in last year played serviceable but not not let's pay him the farm and have him be our foreseeable future there i mean you probably start with blake brandle as your left guard right that's your day one penciled in left guard. But I do believe there are some really talented guards in this class that could step in and be day one starters, right? I think of Cooper Beebe out of Kansas state. Um, you know, I think of a guy like Graham Barton who also will be there at possibly at 23, right? A guy he's from Duke. He played tackle little short to play tackle. He's only about six four and a half extremely athletic he ran a 484 at 315 pounds like there are there are positions

that are deep in this class in the guard position that you could say come in and compete and truly have a true competition to win out the starting spot now it's a rookie that's a dangerous thing to put a rookie left guard with a rookie quarterback. But at the same time, if he's more talented than Blake Brandel, a guy like Zach Zinter, maybe from Michigan, who blew his ankle out in the in the I think it was the Big Ten championship or the fifth because of the injury but he gets healthy and he can go and he's more talented and better to play then yeah I think there's a good chance we could see a rookie starting left guard this year as well hate it I know I know you do and trust me I don't love it either as as a guy but you know I think that there is talent there there's talent in this draft class with the guard position it doesn't get talked as much about the cackle position because it's such a great tackle class you know but there is talent there at the guard position for guys that can come in and physically be ready to do day one if mentally they can pick it up it's not that i don't like the idea of drafting a guard it's just that so

many times we get this oh we'll just draft that to fill the need. And you go stop doing that because it's really hard for rookie guards as we've seen over and over rookie, anything, uh, yeah, over and over again, offensive line, I think usually takes about three years statistically in order for those guys to start hitting their peak. And I would just prefer to not see the rookie quarterback having somebody rushed through the middle and smash them in the face as we've seen from you know Kirk Cousins for so many years now I know the idea is that they could run away better than Kirk Cousins can but a rookie you're still asking a lot and with Blake Brandel we have no sample size to know that he can play he was in a handful of

plays last year and that was about it and i'm not going to make anything of that sample size they obviously like him and i'm sure they like him for a reason but we're talking about a sixth round converted tackle who scored very poorly athleticism wise this is not like a difference maker maybe dalton riser just has to come back once he realizes he is not worth 12 million dollars hired drew rosenhouse so who knows i mean he went out and hired the big dog i yeah drew rosenhouse isn't busy with any other clients uh although hey dalton will be he'll be the only guy rosenhouse is negotiating for in the middle of august yeah because he just can't realize that he's not worth that much when you can't run block.

Anyhow, you worked with a rookie quarterback yourself, and that rookie quarterback progressed pretty quickly, won a division, Teddy Bridgewater. And the chat loves to debate whether Teddy was any good or not, which is just, I think, silly, considering the direction that Teddy Bridgewater was going when he got injured. But that early success from a quarterback asked to start in the first year, not right away, but it came in pretty quickly. And then in 2015, that's when you arrive there. The team wins the division. You saw him establish himself as the leader of the franchise, despite not having great wide receivers at that time, the offensive line was a little spotty. Everything was built kind of around Adrian Peterson and the

head coach loved him more than any other quarterback that he worked with. Why did that dynamic work for Teddy Bridgewater? If we're trying to learn something from that experience where it was working with Teddy Bridgewater to apply to this next quarterback that the Vikings are going to draft what would you if if O'Connell called you and said hey that Bridgewater guy worked out with your team give me some advice what what made it work yeah you know so I was actually fortunate enough to not just be with Teddy and said but I was with Josh Allen when he was a rookie in Buffalo right so I got the chance to see it and the thing that you do is you I mean and Josh was in a very similar position with zero help I mean Kelvin or

what was the the number one receiver in Buffalo in 2018 was the former first rounder for the Panthers Calvin Benjamin Calvin Benjamin right who I think was your size at the time he was enormous he's like 285 pounds and were like, that's a tight end. That's wide receiver one. But what you have to do when you have those rookie quarterbacks is you have to keep things simple for them. You have to keep things simple for them, and you have to not put it all on their shoulders. We had LaShawn McCoy in Buffalo.

So let's ride LaShawn McCoy. We had Adrian Peterson. Let's ride Adrian Peterson while we can do this and allow you to come into your own. And the issue when I look at with the Vikings is the strength is the receivers. And you can't ride the receivers without having the great quarterback.

But I do think that there's good enough talent on the Vikings where it's like, hey, I know KOC you're asking my opinion I know that you're a brilliant scheme guy but let's not scheme the deep routes let's scheme the shallow routes let's scheme Jefferson and Addison and Hawkinson when he's healthy of getting the ball out of his hand quickly early in this year and allowing him to develop the rhythm that he wants right and also run the football as much as you don't want to. And as much as it might pain you to have run plays come out of your mouth and sound like

poison, just commit to it a little bit. Right. And just see if it works. Right. Give Ty Chandler the chance to be the guy. Don't be so scared of what happened last year with Alexander Madison that it taints your view of what you can do with Ty Chandler, right? And so that would be my advice to him is don't try and be the guy like, hey, this is, hey, you're a rookie, but man, look what Kirk did with

these long 18-17 in-breaking routes against cover four, and he connected to this against cover six, and when you see cover two, then you want to get to this and watch the young guy go, oh, okay, okay. Right? Like, don't do that to him. Let him find what's comfortable with him. Get the ball out of his hand early and let the offensive line really rely on some of these run games to get some play actions, some high percentage throws out for your quarterback.

And this is where the acquisition of Aaron Jones is very important for them as well I mean to have Aaron Jones and Ty Chandler you've got a lot of talent now in the backfield that you can use and we saw Ty Chandler was very successful on screen passes and Aaron Jones has done this throughout his career too that their screen game has been abominable the last two seasons. I mean, if, if I'm giving my own advice to O'Connell mix in a good screen, my man, I don't care who you got to ask what, what college scheme you got to take, whatever it might be. That is a cheat code. If you could throw a screen to your running back and get 12 yards out of it, the quarterback has to do nothing. And if it's McCarthy, especially lean into the boots

because that's one thing I would say he did exceptionally well is when he was rolling out he could throw on the run very accurately kind of reminded me of Kirk in that way where I don't know if he played baseball but kind of that short stop on the move type of throw he's really good at that and that's a major part of it is you might have to pare down your offense to what the guy does well right now and then work on those other things in the following offseason kind of give that guy the list all right we need to improve x y and z but for right now i mean even when you look at the early cj stroud games it's not complicated i mean they're running a lot of play action and stuff like that because that's what he's good at.

Two-man routes, max protection. Let's make sure we don't get him killed. Hey, if it's not there, dirt it, dude. But keep him upright. That's the first thing because if you rattle a rookie quarterback early of getting him dinged, you're looking at a Bryce Young situation. If you let him get murdered from day one and be like, wow, these dudes are really

big and fast and hurt my ribs when they hit me it's gonna ruin the rest of his year and i don't know everything about carolina's offense in the same way that i understand the vikings offense but when the vikings played carolina and bryce young steps up there out of the shotgun he's being asked to direct everything and then forgets about Harrison Smith, the line of scrimmage. You go, that's a rookie, man. You have to keep in mind that these guys, no matter how complicated their offense was or pro style in college,

it's not what yours is. So you have to limit some of the stuff and make it easier. But I agree with you that the run game is super vital to this. The short passing game is vital to this. I just wonder if Kevin O'Connell has waited for this whole off season. He's met with these guys. He's got his new toy and it can, he restrain himself. And that might mean, I know that you believe Sam Darnold is a training camp QB one only. It might mean the first five weeks are Sam Darnold because the guy's not going to be ready. And I'm totally comfortable with that. I think

that just based on O'Connell's mentality, he really should give the guy half a season or give the guy the first season, very hard to wait a whole year, but maybe deep into the season, because it is a lot to ask of somebody to go from the college stuff to the combine, to all these visits and everything else to, Hey, learn my offense that the, all the other players already know and come in here and then run the whole thing. Uh, it's probably safer for that quarterback to have some time rather than asking Kevin O'Connell to dial it back. Cause I don't think he wants to. And people have to remember too,

rookies don't get there the day after the draft rookies don't report for two full weeks after the draft, right? They come up for a rookie mini camp. If they're the first week, then they go home for a week. And then they get to come back later. Like they truly get one month, like five weeks of off season. Right. And you're asking them to play catch up,

right? Hey, we're already through phase one, two, and three install rook. Like we're not slowing down for you, figure it out on your own. And then come veteran mini camp, you're hoping that you just understand the X's and O's and the snap count and the cadence and how to huddle. And now you've got someone chirping in your ear nonstop. Like there's just so much to learn and so much to get ready for. You have to dial it back and it's hard to do, especially with the ones, right? With the twos and the threes, you're going to have some rookies mixed in there, but when you're out there with the ones, the ones, I mean, Brian O'Neill and Justin Jefferson, if he's there and Darisar are going

to be sitting there like, what are you, what are we calling dude? This is, we installed this in April. Like, why are we doing this it's just hard to dial that back and it can get frustrating it can get frustrating for for the starters at least yeah i i was watching um steve smith's uh football life which is really good recently and there was a part where he was a veteran and cam newton just got there and they showed a lot of the moments of Steve Smith getting frustrated with Cam Newton. And you played with Cam.

You know what a great football mind he is. But even as a rookie, he was just a raw football player trying to figure it out, who went from having one-word plays to then all of a sudden trying to learn this entire offense. It's a huge challenge for these guys. We do see, I think, in the right situations success but situation can also mean that Bobby Sloak was making it fairly easy for CJ Stroud at first and letting him build into that so if Kevin O'Connell can't contain himself then they should just let Sam Darnold

take over at first and then move on from there how about personnel before you move on like how do you feel about drafting quarterback at five and letting sam darnold start versus drafting quarterback at 11 and letting sam darnold start does that change your perception of like how much they sold to get their guy it does not for me i know that there is a thought of well this is his rookie contract the clock has started ticking nobody wins the super bowl as a rookie i would prefer him just develop in the best way possible and you're right that if you draft someone fifth overall and don't play him right away but carson palmer didn't play right away it was john kitna

that first year in cincinnati i totally understand that but i am old so that's what i think of uh patrick mahomes was what the 10th 11th yeah so dante call pepper again yes that's a throwback but he was the 11th overall pick i don't care where the guy was selected completely fine with letting him sit as long as possible but you do get that call from mark wilf saying you know know, we're two and five. Are you guys thinking about maybe starting that quarterback? Because I really got excited on draft night. That's what makes it hard. But the last thing I want to ask was, so you worked with Teddy Bridgewater and Josh Allen. They both have a drive to them that is pretty special.

What did you observe from those guys' personalities that made them winners? It was just their, they would not fail, right? They refused to fail. And even when they did fail, they were humble about it, right? Like in, you know, they came to the sidelines and they own their mistakes and they stood at the podium and took the arrows. And there wasn't a bus thrower mentality of like, well, the receiver ran the wrong route, even when he did. Right. And I knew there was times in, cause I sat in the meeting, especially in Buffalo where the route was supposed to be at 18 and he broke it off at 21 and ended up being an interception. But Josh never once stood at the podium. He's like, yeah, you know, if that receiver would have ran the right route, that's not a pick or, you know, Hey, I held onto

the ball too long when really it was because the offensive line didn't pick up a blitz right though that's important in a quarterback and that's important in how they stand up there and earn the respect of their teammates because i mean i'm pretty sure even the corner from the bears was like don't bring that hollywood stuff in here by talking about caleb williams there is a respect earned in the nfl you don't get respect walking into the NFL. You earn it regardless if you're the first overall pick or you're undrafted free agent. You earn every bit of respect. And both those guys stood up there

and earned the respect of their teammates and then demanded it from the rest of us, right? And if you demand it from the rest of your teammates and you're walking the walk, that's how you can tell this dude's got it, right? When you hear guys say like, he's got it. I knew Teddy had it and I knew Josh had it just being around them for one year and then sure enough i mean they went on to have success if teddy doesn't get hurt i think the sky's the

limit for him and obviously you've seen what josh allen's been able to do at buffalo leadership can sometimes just be being prepared i think in the nfl because you don't need someone to come up to you and say come on searles go kill a guy like you don't need someone to come up to you and say, come on, Searles, go kill a guy. Like you don't need that. You're a professional football player, but you do need here's, here's how we're getting lined up. Everybody in the right spots. I'm in command here. I'm in total control. And even if that quarterback's wrong about the play that everyone's like, all right, well, we're going to be wrong with him. So we're going to write because he, cause he's the guy he's prepared. He's in charge. And there is a natural authentic leadership that the best quarterbacks have. And of course we just have to point to

Mahomes for everything, but it's so clear with him. It's just, maybe it's because they're winning all the time. I don't know. It just seems so clear from the very moment he stepped on the field. This guy is in command. He's the guy. He's prepared. He's in charge. And that's something that you just can't predict from college because they don't ask for that. For Michigan, they could say all they want about who the leader of the team is.

We know it. It's Jim Harbaugh is the leader of the team. And that's the one thing for Michael Penix that he's the one guy, and I don't think of Caleb Williams or Drake May. The only guy in this class I think of this is Penix, where I can say when I watched him play, there was nobody else on that football team. Like that guy was the guy, not the coach, not the receiver, whatever. He was total command because their offense just threw the ball every single play and he was in control. But that's one thing i like about him even with someone like that it's so hard to say are you going to be able

to come in get everybody in the right spots have get in and out of the huddle it's so funny coaches say that and then you go to training camp and watch some fourth string quarterback who cannot call a play and get people lined up without the quarterback coach screaming at him this is harder than you think folks so 100 it'll be uh it'll be interesting to watch it play out man i can't wait we're only days away so you and i uh we'll talk again i'm sure after the draft but of course to finish the show you have to give your prediction what do you think happens on drafting i think they stay at 11 and take pennix oh Oh, Oh, I would be very happy with that. I think there will be people who say, Oh,

they couldn't pull off the trade, fire, quasi, whatever. I, I believe that he would be a great fit for this offense. So, all right,

Jeremiah Searles. Great to be back with you, man. Thanks for doing this. Absolutely. I'll see you guys next time. Let's let's finish the show properly. What do we got? Football. Oh, football. Always going to be back. Absolutely. I'll see you guys next time. Let's finish the show properly. What do we got?

Football. Oh, football. I'm out of practice. Football. A little rusty today. Gosh, dang it.