Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy felt 'in sync' vs. Dallas. Can he keep rolling in NY? (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy's comments on his improved play, KOC's answer about 'adjustments,' Joe Burrow saying some very, very interesting stuff and Josh Metellus being out for the year. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandual Matthew Collar here, as always got a bunch of notes from today. We heard from J.J. McCarthy. We heard from Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings getting ready to play the New York Giants, but the injury report is not so friendly. So we will go through all of that, plus your questions, comments, thoughts, feelings, and so forth, happy to answer whatever is on your mind this evening as the Vikings get to play their third to last game of the season. Can you believe it? It's almost over,

folks. And the show, by the way, as always presented by our friends at Fandual, and we will have a Fandual question of the day coming up very shortly. So let us begin with J.J. McCarthy. He talked today. And you'll have to have to give J.J. J. McCarthy credit for this, that despite all the ups and downs throughout the season, I don't think that on his Wednesday press conference, there's been really any change in J.J. McCarthy, always affable and answering the questions. But there is a point in every season with the quarterback, if they're not going to the playoffs, where the questions, we just sort of, all right, what is left to ask J.J. McCarthy. But what we did have to ask was how he felt he came out of the Dallas Cowboys game.

What's going right for him? Where is he making progress in these last two weeks? And so I kicked off the old press conference myself with just asking JJ a pretty simple question, which was what did he like from himself on tape in his strong performance against the Dallas Cowboys? JJ, when you just reviewed the tape, what did you like most about your performance? every play felt in sync like it felt on time it didn't feel like there was any indecisiveness and when there was and I couldn't see over the line or something like that I was dishing the ball out and just putting it in play so I feel like that growth was something

that really stood out yeah and you know I feel like that is the biggest thing over the last couple of weeks that the message from Kevin O'Connell about decision making being the key seems to have really hit home with J.J. McCarthy and protecting the football because when you look at the number of sacks, the number of interceptions over his first six games, that is a unacceptable amount of miscues for any quarterback. You can blame offensive line. You can blame receivers, drop passes, whatever it might be. You could say the offense was too complicated. They did too much with fundamental, whatever you want to say. But there's no world where the quarterback should be turning the ball over or taking as many sacks as he was.

And for these last two weeks to be a clean sheet for J.J. McCarthy by PFF's metrics, zero turnover worthy plays over these last two weeks. That's where you feel like, okay, you could settle into a spot with J.J. McCarthy where even going into next year and these last three games are going to tell us where he is in sync a lot more and he's making good decisions. lot more often and there are a couple of plays in the game where you think oh that looks like he might have had this guy or maybe he could have seen that guy and instead it's that's aaron jones and that's a good play and i know that o'connell has been emphasizing that since early on

in the season but that seems to have resonated with j j mccarthy in these last couple of weeks and that's something that will travel like you can talk about the defensive quality of the Dallas Cowboys, and if you want to see what the Cowboys media thinks of that game and the defense that Matt Eberfuss played, you can go watch a couple of their film breakdowns because they're not very, very nice to the Dallas Cowboys defense, but something that travels from week to week, regardless of whether the defense that you're facing is 31st in EPA or first in EPA is making good decisions with the football and deciding when the right times to take a risk are. So, you know, for example, the throw to Jalen Naylor, which, hey, maybe if Duran Bland is a little better or sees the football or whatever, he might be able to make a play and knock that one down, but it's a pretty good calculated risk.

It's your guy versus their guy down the field and your guy is pretty darn good at going up and catching the football. So you put it in a spot and you hope and then Jalen Naylor makes a great play to catch a touchdown. that to me is a very good decision with the football. It's, all right, well, you're early in the game and you're in the high red and you've got a receiver running one-on-one, and in the NFL, that's got to be open. So you put it in the best spot that you can and then see what happens. But these receivers often make plays. And even you've got to figure two, even if Blan does get an edge on your receiver,

your receiver can turn into a cornerback, probably knock it down. That's a really good choice. the one I mentioned to Aaron Jones, where he might have T.J. Hawkinson a little farther down the field, but, you know, just lays it off to Aaron Jones. We've seen him do that a lot more in the last couple weeks than we did early on. And in sync is another way that I would describe him playing the other night as well. Now, with McCarthy and his playing style, there's always going to be a, I think, chaos element to it because he is a playmaker. He considers himself that he's always been a playmaker. He was in college when he got opportunities and you would see him make plays on

scrambles and runs and throw on the move and things like that. So he's going to try to extend plays and make things happen. But there were a lot of just straight up, snap the ball, drop back, see something you're looking for and release it. And maybe the best example of that against Dallas was to throw down the seam to T.J. Hawkinson, which was one of his best throws of the entire season, if not his best throw of the entire year. And that happened in perfect sync with the offense. So he saw it, got the look that he was hoping to get, and then bang, let it go. And there were a couple of games in there where I felt like the confidence in what he was looking for was maybe not there. And he did comment on that today and said, because he was asked if he feels like

he's playing faster. And he described earlier in the season trying to think through things. But now that he's seen a lot of the, the concepts over and over again, played with the same receivers, that he feels like he's playing faster. And that definitely showed up in these last two games. So I think that his comment about being in sync was exactly right. And when we talk about trying to separate and contextualize different things of, well, what does it really mean? And I brought up in the newsletter over at purple insider dot football, a couple examples of quarterbacks who have fooled the world by playing pretty well in their last five or six games. Sam Darnold early in his career, Mitch Trubisky once upon time or Drew Locke, but also,

I mean, that just speaks to how hard it is to evaluate, you know, quarterbacks. But also, we, if we look at what's, I think the analytics world likes to use the word sticky, like what's going to stay, what's going to have week to week something that you could see mattering into the future and what was random. So it's pretty random to get a 58 yard wide open. Like you need, it's a good play call and good design, but, you know, to get a 58 yard completion, you need that corner to get toasted or you need a pass interference or something or you need a safety to make a mistake.

You need somebody to get wide open. It doesn't happen every single week. But being in sync with your offense, making good throws, seeing the defense well, feeling the concepts, playing at the. right speed. Those are things that can travel from week to week. So I thought that was interesting. Also, he was asked about the pocket presence, which we've seen the number of sacks reduced significantly. And there have been a few times last two weeks where I thought he kind of ducked his head a little bit and maybe was a little like, okay, get rid of the ball, JJ, but

you know, he's trying to scramble out and make a play. I'm still not sure how I totally feel about quarterbacks diving forward into defenders because you're kind of free at that point to be hit, a little worried about that when he does that sometimes. But then again, sliding down the other way, you can get smacked in the face too, as we saw from Tyler Shuck on Sunday. But anyway, McCarthy also talked about his improving pocket presence over the last couple weeks. JJ, in terms of learning about pocket movement, how to protect yourself in the pocket in ways that are productive without bailing on a place really, where does it feel like

you've learned the most there? It seems like that's something that you've started to get a little bit better for. Emphasizing where my outlets are and checkdowns, just knowing where to scramble to. You know, it's one thing to get out of a fight or flight situation, but it's another thing to, you know, kind of not necessarily predetermined, but just be aware of where the slide's going, where the man side is, because that's usually going to be where the gaps that are going to open up and what concepts are over there, what routes are over there. So just understanding the offense more as a whole has helped tremendously. Jay, you've had a lot of bigger personnel

the last couple of weeks that's really worked for you guys. I guess what is it about those groupings with CJ and extra tight ends that seems to fit for this offense? I feel like the guys in those groupings, you know, they're very talented. They can do so many different things. So being able to be as versatile as possible as an offense with different groupings and stuff like that. It just adds another layer when you could have those big people that could also catch the ball, get open, and make plays with the ball in their hands. That last part is something ties into a question of mind that I want to bring to you a little later with Kevin O'Connell, but it has been very noticeable how much the Vikings have used

bigger personnel. And I think that's helped JJ McCarthy significantly to have the fullback in there, to have those play action options, to give a run look. and then throw the football. It helps any quarterback, but I think it's also added a little bit of extra pass protection. C.J. Hamm is really good at stepping up into pass pro. And as much as Aaron Jones works his tail off to do it,

C.J. Ham's a bigger gentleman and is a benefit back there. And then we've seen the way that they've used Josh Oliver through the years, run blocking, one of the best in the NFL. And then very good at catching the football. If you have him running, you know, certain types of routes, a lot of little under type of route. he's very good at that and then can even run with the football a little bit, but also a blocker who helps out a lot on the edge,

which, you know, they did with Justin School and they're at left tackle the other day. But as far as the pocket presence thing, it's funny about how sometimes the game with certain quarterbacks can look like, oh, he just sort of figured it out on the fly. But what McCarthy is making a point there of, I'm going to know before the play, generally where I can scramble to, if x y or z happens so if it looks like they're rushing a free runner off of this side i'm going to know that i've got josh oliver over there for an extra blocker and i can go to my left or when i see

the protection slid to one direction that you know maybe i'm going to have a gap in the middle of the field as you know things get pushed around me whatever it might be uh and uh i think that he's done a really good job at deciding when to run where to run to over these last couple of weeks so for sort of circling things that he has improved on in these last two games where it's been a big, big jump from his first six starts. I think that that would definitely be one of them. Now, a lot of you have asked me over the last few weeks as he's performed better about adjustments that Kevin O'Connell has made. And my answer has generally been, I don't think that they suddenly started running a different offense, that I've seen a couple of things that are different.

which is, number one, they're running the football on early downs a lot more. And I praised O'Connell the other night for, hey, you're only averaging three yards to carry, but keep pounded because you're going to set up some of those opportunities for play action and you're going to be able to roll out those bigger personnel packages and force bigger guys onto the field for the Cowboys and maybe create some space off of those types of things that there is an effect of running the football that I think matters. And even if it doesn't show up in the yards per carry exactly, you are forcing the defense to think about it and then working the pass off it.

And I think O'Connell's done a good job at that, really in the second half of the season or when, I forget what week it is now, when JJ came back against the Lions, they did a good job in that game. They did a good job of it in the Bears game and had opportunities that were just, you know, slightly missed by McCarthy, but opportunities were there building off of the run game. So I decided to pose that question to O'Connell, and here was his answer. We talk a lot about adjustments to offense, things like that. How do you feel like this offense has sort of morphed throughout the year with some of the different challenges you've dealt with to get to this point where

JJ has looked comfortable in the last two weeks? Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of it has been just navigating the group up front throughout the year, depending on the opponent, depending on, you know, things we need to make sure we still put together in a competitive way where we're playing against maybe some elite rushes without our total group up there up front. We've had to navigate that. But yeah, I think it's all part of staying true to the foundation of a lot of the things that we do, maybe just doing it out of different personnel groupings and trying to pinpoint each week the benefit of running plays out of certain groupings. And a lot of it has been

has coincided with being able to run the football and try to stay efficient so that, you know, it's great to be able to put some of those bigger groupings out there, but it's very, very much an easy thing to do when you're in second and six or less, and the run-pass scales don't tip one way or the other, and you can truly be multiple out of those groupings. The second and ten pluses,

you can put whatever grouping out there you want, but a lot of times the defense has already put their nickel or dime defense out there. I think it all kind of works together, but yeah, I think, you know, getting C.J. Ham, you know, back and going, you know, allowing us to have some of those, you know, backfield sets. And then, you know, obviously with the depth, we feel like we have at tight end, activating that group, all well knowing that, you know, when called upon Justin Jordan and Speedy are all making plays at the receiver position. And, you know, we're activating our

backs a little bit as well, too. We run and pass as much as we possibly can. So it's, a complete kind of you know i don't i don't really know if you can point to one particular area i know that becomes a job requirement for you guys but unfortunately that's not one for me so let me uh go through that a little bit uh one thing is you know with the bigger personnel as you could tell i like it a lot i think it works i mean this is like a kyle shanahan using a kyle use check and the many fullbacks the many tight ends i don't think that people did that in the nfl for so many years because they just thought it was hilarious to have guys with big old neck rolls. I think they did it for a reason.

And as the NFL has gone to certain types of things on defense, I think having a fullback, and we've really seen this over the last maybe four to six weeks with CJ Ham, I think it really helps. I think having a number two tight end really helps. And if we're talking about trying to isolate a quarterback as much as possible who is still young and developing, you're trying to protect him, you're trying to put him in favorable run-pass situations. Like, I think where the defense doesn't know which one you're doing, as he mentioned

second and shorter than six, those big dudes do a lot. So that is something that he mentioned as a pretty big adjustment as, you know, Oliver was banged up, Ham was banged up. But I don't think he's ever used CJ Ham as much as he has over the last couple of weeks. And again, there's a reason. I think that this position should not have gone away in the first place because it's really helpful and really valuable if you can have that fullback spot on the field. And Aaron Jones also talked about that today saying he gets the ball and C.J. Ham has already kind of

sorted through it. And then he just has to follow him. I think that those, you know, like fullback's forever. Right. That's always something that I'm going to believe in. So that's one adjustment that I think is very clear. He did say that essentially the basis of the offense has not been changed, which I didn't think that it did. When we're looking at the downfield passing they're still doing a lot of it and j j mccarthy has the arm to do it and sometimes it felt like there was a lot of discussion of you guys not not you know just generally a lot of folks wanting them to switch to some sort of spread type of bubble screen offense where you're just throwing a ton of like double slants or something where that was kind

of like what John D. Filippo did in 2018, where there was a ton of short passing little hitches that went, you know, five yards and then you get it to the guy or something. That's just not what this offense is. It is a downfield passing offense. And it looks more and more like a Kubiak or Shanahan every day with putting the bigger guys on the field. That was a very Shanahan-E type of game plan where you're getting it underneath, you're running the ball, and then you're taking your shots when they present themselves, especially off of playoff. action. So I think they've leaned more into that and sort of less into some of the concepts and ideas that they have used with veteran quarterbacks before and they've paired it down

a little bit in that way to look a little bit more of the big personnel, the play action, the run game, and just, hey, simplify that. I think that's where that's happened. But I don't think that it's a fundamental change of wanting to hit explosive plays. The Addison play, that's something it's very similar to what they used to get Jalen Naylor a touchdown last year against the Packers, where somebody hitches up or somebody runs, you know, crossing route deep and then somebody's going 100%, you know, go route down the middle of the field or down, you know, the hash, and then you just throw it up to him.

And if the defense doesn't play it right or the corner gets beat, then bang, you got yourself, you know, a big time play. And you see a lot of these versus quarter coverages, which I know was being talked about on the interwebs a couple of weeks ago. and then the whole internet switched to peer progression conversation, that kind of thing. But I haven't, I haven't seen it be a wildly different offense. It's just out of different looks, I think, that have helped J.J. McCarthy. That's my thought.

And the last part of it, I got a few questions about that. Like, oh, what was that, you know, with O'Connell? I think what he means is, this is how I took it anyway, sitting in the room, is any other adjustments, I'm not going to get out the whiteboard and tell you guys. Like, you guys are going to have to figure that out yourself. I'm not going to just show you all other adjustments that I made throughout the season. And I do think that the past protection, this goes to our next point, the past protection and the different combinations of offensive line have also caused them to do things that they

normally wouldn't want to do to try to get as clean of a pocket as they possibly can. So the injury report today, not too friendly, not too friendly. They did a walk-through, and on the offensive line, they did not have today Ryan Kelly, Brian O'Neill, or Christian Derisaw. And the Derisaw situation is just a little bit on the, what's the metric I use, the eyebrow raise? It's a little bit on the eyebrow raise because they announced today, we'll get into this, that Josh Mattelis is going to have surgery, and he's going to be out for the year with Jonathan Granard, same thing, they're eliminated from the playoffs. And these players who are super valuable to their futures, don't play three games where you could get hurt, you could aggravate something, you could make something worse.

But that doesn't apply to Christian Derasaw who's still missing practices after playing against Washington. And then as a DNP today, did not play last week against Dallas missed practice. I'm not sure I fully understand what exactly is happening there. why Darisol would not be on that list of guys that you want to just shut down because it's been so many stops and starts with him. He plays a game or two. Then he's got whatever it might be, swelling, soreness, whatever's keeping him out of practice. And then he's back to the bench for a game. And look, when you're in the playoff race, absolutely fight as hard as you possibly can to get your

franchise tackle on the field. But at this point, I don't think you want any more complications. And if you are putting him out there for the week 18 game against the Packers and he gets injured and then sets back his rehab for next year or his offseason overall and has to rehab, well, then you're in even more trouble and you're in the same sort of spot that you would have been in last year where you're trying to work through something the entire year. So I don't really fully understand that. And they've called it week to week. I wouldn't be shocked if he just doesn't play any of these three games. I really don't fully understand from the answers that have been given how that's working. But I suppose if you're going into those last two games and you want the best version of J.J. McCarthy and there might be one of those situations where he's not really at risk of anything with the knee. It's just a pain management type of thing and that's been difficult to deal with.

Now, I'm just sort of speculating at this point because that's all we can really do. But maybe that's why they feel like, hey, you know, you're going to play Aidan Hutchinson. You're going to play the Packers still have a lot of really good football players. So you could use your left tackle and that can help you get better performances out of J.J. McCarthy or better evaluate McCarthy. So we'll have to see on that. O'Neill was clearly banged up the other night. That might have to mean Blake Brandle right tackle.

I don't know. I know that O'Neill has been a warrior throughout the years and has fought through a lot of stuff. So not really sure the degree of which he's dealing with something, but the fact that he had to come out of the game the other night would mean to me that it's significant and then Ryan Kelly not practicing with the knee and Ryan Kelly, you want to talk about reasons that J.J. McCarthy has been turning a corner here late in the season.

I think Ryan Kelly is one of them. This guy is so cerebral, so experienced, so calm under fire, and you can just see it all over the tape how good Ryan Kelly is for a young quarterback. and I was thinking about this yesterday about their future at center and just you'd love to have Ryan Kelly back next year, but is he going to continue to play? Do you feel confident enough in bringing him back that you're going to get 10, 15 games somewhere in that range?

Because if you are not, then you need to have a really good backup center option. And I think like Brandel did as well as you could possibly do. and maybe if you train Blake Brandel throughout a training camp, which they did not do last year, at least to give him real reps at center, you know, maybe you're talking about somebody who could handle that really well if Kelly gets hurt. But I think drafting a center is on the list of things to do for the Vikings when they get to the draft regardless of, you know, what ends up happening with Ryan Kelly. But I think he's been very important. If they're without one of these guys, maybe, that's fine.

If they're without two of those guys, it's a big problem. If they're without three of these guys, pray. Because the defensive line of the New York Giants, as bad as the Giants defense is, and oh, is it bad? It is in the bottom five of the entire NFL, an expected points added. They got some beasts.

And I think Abdul Carter needs to prove himself, and Brian Burns has been an absolute monster this year. And Dexter Lawrence, there's been controversy in New York with Dexter Lawrence getting criticized by Carl Banks. I know you guys have all been following that really closely, but that's a thing that's happening. And Lawrence has not put up the same numbers that he's put up in the past, but I think everybody here is aware that Dexter Lawrence could rip someone's face off on Sunday,

and they need everything that they can get to battle against him. So that would be, to me, the biggest concern or test for J.J. McCarthy Because he had so much time to throw against Dallas. The O line just did a great job. And are you going to have as much time? Are they going to have their edge rushers, maybe even Kvon Tibido, KOC mentioned that as somebody who could be back, Dexter Lawrence. And if that's the case, then it could be pretty tough without a full offensive line for the Vikings, something for us to watch for sure. But I think it's a much tougher test than Dallas, who really had no edge rushers.

And so Justin School graded really well in this game, and he deserves credit for that. but it wasn't like he's facing Brian Burns or a top draft pick in Abdul Carter. It was kind of their makeshift group of older players that they just, you know, grabbed off free agency and hoped could put together a decent pass rush and then did not. So that's, that's something to watch for sure for this team this week against the Giants. Now, Josh Mattelis, the other big news note today, shut down today with shoulder surgery. And I think what something like this tells you is that by the time teams arrive at the playoffs, there's probably a lot of guys who are dealing with different injuries that they've been fighting through.

And that's why it's so hard to go year to year as you end up with guys pushing through, then into January, then have surgeries and it puts them back and, you know, things like that. But Josh Mattelis was clearly fighting through a shoulder injury as well. He ends up having surgery. So they are going to be against Jackson Dart, presumably. against Jackson Dart without their top pass rusher and without their dynamic box weapon. But this does open the door for some other guys. And as we are getting into the evaluation period here, having somebody like Dallas Turner get more opportunity gives them a chance to now see a lot more of him.

And the other guy who I spoke to today in the locker room for a bit, and I'm going to include that in the newsletter tomorrow. tomorrow. Jay Ward, but you know, Jay was talking about how throughout college, he was playing a lot of different positions and he's always done that. And even when he's come in now, this year earlier, he's playing safety. Then he was an outside corner. Like he's a Mattelis like player that has my attention. And any time a safety does really well on special teams and then the coaches start talking about him. And then they're like, we got to get him in the game. That's the Bynum. That's the Mattelis type of route. And are we going to see that? from Ward that when he's been in, he's been pretty good, or are we not going to see that from

Jay Ward and the Giants are going to, you know, perform pretty well? So Mattelis being out a warrior for battling through it all the way until they were eliminated, but, you know, better to shut him down and give Jay Ward an opportunity. And as far as Dallas Turner goes and the chance that he's got, Kevin O'Connell talked about that today. Do. Yeah, when you open to Seattle, Dallas Turner, as he steps into that, Jonathan Gernard roll for the remainder Yeah, I think, you know, you look at Dallas's year and he's been ascending, in my opinion, throughout the year and really being asked to do totally, two totally separate jobs at different points in time, whether that was stepping in for gink. That's a very unique role here. And then, you know, at times getting to step in for JG here, where it's, I think it's a little bit more of a natural fit in that position, just, you know, what we call that rush position, a little bit more going forward. His point. play style, play strength, his athleticism. I think he's got a great opportunity, you know,

and he's been, him and J.G. have become really close, which has been awesome to see. And that's one of things, you know, in my dialogue with J.G. this week of, like, how excited he is to kind of, you know, now be able to take, like, an absolute role with Dallas, knowing that he can't be out there himself, but he can certainly have an impact on Dallas. And that's just the type of people that Jonathan Gernardin and Josh Mattelis are,

and their impact is still going to be massive for us here over these next three weeks. I think the impression that we all had, which was that Dallas Turner looked more comfortable in the Jonathan Grenard position kind of referenced a little bit there by Kevin O'Connell. And I think these last three games are a very serious opportunity for Turner to take another step forward, which I think he has throughout this season. And especially when he was playing more of that pure pass rusher type of role, he looked like he belonged there. Whereas with the Van Ginkle type of role,

it was sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. Where, you know, he's dropping back in coverage a lot more if you're going to be that guy. You're lining up in different spots if you're going to be that guy. And in the Grenard spot, you're pretty much able to set up there and chase the quarterback. And we've seen that Dallas Turner could definitely do that with his explosiveness.

And then I think he's, and I talk about. talk to Grenard one day about this. They come up with, you know, they're refined some more moves and, you know, things like that over the years, now these two years to get him to the old age of, I think he's 22 now, going on 23. But he started to pick up on and refine some of those counter moves as opposed to just, which is often the case in college, hey, this is my fastball. I'm just going to keep throwing my fastball. But now there's a little more change up there. And working with Granard and those two being close, I think it's a good sign.

And when we get to the end of this, we'll be able to give, you know, grades for every player and grades for every position group and things like that because I think the grade is still up in the air for Dallas Turner and is to be determined over these next couple of weeks. So there's everything I got in terms of my notes for today. I want to give you guys the Fandual. Oh, actually I got one more. I'll give you the Fandual question of the day. You can start answering it.

Then we'll get to your questions. But I forgot there's one more note that has to be mentioned. The Fandu a question of the day is both Jackson Dart and J.J. McCarthy have under 200 yards for their over unders for Sunday's game on Fandul. So both their over unders are under 200 yards. Do you think that it's going to be an ugly low scoring game or will this be a shootout, especially with Grenard and Mattelis out? Are we looking at big scoring from both teams, maybe lots of fun and entertainment? We kind of got that in Dallas. Or are we looking at? at kind of a sloppy contest with, you know, a defensive line for the Giants that's pretty darn good. And Jackson Dart, who can't stop running himself into people. I mean, I don't know if Fandul has a bet on Jackson Dart not making it through the game. But this guy is, you're talking about trying to protect JJ. This guy is totally reckless against a defense like Minnesota, maybe not the best idea for Jackson Dart. So here's the one other note.

Oh, okay, I'll give you the small one, then I'll give you the bigger one. small one was the other night I was asked a couple times about the whole JJ celebration thing my assumption was hey you know you're really dunking on that team and kind of showing them up and maybe that's not something the coaches wanted him to do uh Wes Phillips said that it was also he didn't confirm that but it was about ball security that if you're grittying with the football and it flies out of your hand it goes out of the back of the end zone you are going to look like the biggest dope ever and you could also cost your team the game as, you know, Jefferson, when he was reaching out over the goal line,

uh, all, you know, kind of did the two years ago in Philadelphia and the ball goes out of the back of the end zone. Every once in a while, you see it. So that was really the coaching point there for J.J. McCarthy, um, because man, if he, I mean, imagine that doing the gritty and then the ball falls out of your hand and then I don't know, right? So I guess that's what they were thinking. And, uh, the last note was Joe Burrow. If Joe Burrow wants to be a Cincinnati bank. long term. He ain't doing nothing to show it. It's kind of wild. Like every time he speaks to the media, it's going to be a circus the rest of the way. Because today, Burrow was asked about the whole situation and he said that he can't see himself anywhere else next year. But he said,

you think about a lot of things when it comes to his long term future. And then he referenced the Michael Parsons trade kind of within anything is possible. type of tone. And I think this might have been Joe Burroughs truth to all rumors moment. I mean, the natural reaction from everybody who saw these comments is like, okay, so where's Joe Burrow

going next offseason? And the team that's in a prime position, here's the problem with most teams that could possibly trade for Joe Burrow. They don't have a quarterback to send Cincinnati. The Vikings have a quarterback to send Cincinnati. I'm just saying,

I know I'm doing the Brian Windhorst fingers here, But, like, how many other teams that need a quarterback in the NFC, they would never send him to an AFC team, in the NFC, have a quarterback that they could say, and who is cheap, that they could say Cincinnati, here you go, it's a quarterback on the rise. I mean, if J.J. McCarthy has a couple of good games at the end of the season and Joe Burrow is available, I'm sorry, I like where J.J. McCarthy is going, but I'm trading for Joe Burrow. We were talking about a top five quarterback who will put you in Super Bowl land right away and don't and just miss me with any cap conversation.

Just, I don't want to hear about it. Like, that is a quarterback who will put you there. And you can say, well, you know, Cincinnati, they haven't been able to win with them or, oh, he's injured or whatever. Look, look, Cincinnati is a bad franchise. And they still went to the Super Bowl with Joe Burrow. And I know he was cheap then. But this is a, this is a guy who is in an national.

on that you never get to trade for never ever ever you know what actually reminded me up is the wild trading for quinn hughes i mean my entire time here the wild have sort of just been like a okay you know they're over there and i go i go to games sometimes and i enjoy it it's a great game experience but i've never cared that much because when have they ever made me and then they trade for quin hughes like whoa they could actually compete for the cup i i mean if you're if you get a chance to trade for joe burrow you do it you apologize to no one if it blows up in your face again you still apologize to no one that's the type of quarterback you pay for so uh him and justin jefferson i mean and if uh you know they could keep brian flores around then uh you can

continue to build a good defense much better than uh cincinnati so anyway i don't know he didn't dispel it didn't dispel it for a minute jeremy fowler also brought up kiler murray for the vikings I have just not been that in on that idea, Kyler Murray. Even if they can do it in a way where it's cheap, I've just not been in on that. I just think that there's a ceiling there. And even though he is a talented player and he can make some amazing throws and incredible runs, he's just to me not of a level that goes higher than the Kirk quotient if he is expensive. I don't think he's consistent enough to win throughout the playoffs because it's very boomer bust with him.

and I really don't think he's a great fit for an offense that loves to throw the ball over the middle of the field when he just doesn't do that very often because of his height. So I'm not, not so much in on the Kyle. I mean, it's exciting. Would it be fun or entertaining? Yes. I'm not so sure how they'd get along. He and Kevin O'Connell, he did get DeAndre Hopkins the football a heck of a lot when he was there. But now that feels like a long time ago.

2021 when he played the Vikings feels like a long time ago has not been good in a long. time so there is all of your notes uh chill burrow man that guy he might as well be stephan dig saying there's truth to all rovers like it is the exact same vibe so let's get into your questions comments uh i am wide open the rest of the way so i'm uh happy to take whatever is on your mind uh jay starts us off with what would you think if we drafted uh jeremiah love first I've seen that a lot and I don't love that idea because it's a running back and I know that there has been a number of running backs

who have turned out to be pretty good. Bejohn Robinson is very good. Jamir Gibbs, my gracious, is excellent. And maybe under the right circumstances, an exceptional running back can take you over the top as an offense. I think that's possible. But it still comes back to, for me, I don't think that the running back in this offense, number one, is utilized to the point where I'd say you have to spend a top 15 draft pick on it. I would also say that the running game has been fine for them with Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason.

And when they've had their offensive line, it's been really good at times. I just don't see that as a necessity as much as I see a cornerback, which I saw, I think, Melton's. Kuiper had them taking because we're already mock drafted for those teams that are out. But corner to me is so important into the future. You have Byron Murphy. I don't think he had his best year this year. Isaiah Rogers has been okay. I think he has been a starting level cornerback for them throughout the year.

But you'd like to see that those are the only two. If one of those guys got hurt, who the hell are you playing? If either one of those guys had gotten banged up, you'd love to see them draft someone who is your Pat Sartan, where you can play man coverage, you can do different things and you don't just have to blitz all the time. We talk about every offseason, they end up doing it anyway because they have to, or a safety. And I know safety is not always high on my list of first round picks either, but, you know, you look at a Kyle Hamilton, as I know you guys are familiar with him, or a Nikki Menwere,

who has been a game changer for Seattle. If Harrison Smith is retiring, then you have to look at those players, too. Corner, though, to me, is one of those major, major positions. It's with offensive tackle, wide receiver, quarterback, cornerback, edge rusher. To me, are the ones you take all of those guys in the first round and then you take a running back in the second. I mean, Jonathan Taylor's been the best running back in football this year, right? Or at least darn close. He's a second round draft pick.

There's a lot of running backs that usually end up available who are really, really good in the second round, third round as well. I see the argument because he's really exciting. but just the positional value of it is so low. I shot you 99 says, are we in fools gold territory with McCarthy? If the Lions of Packers still have something to play for, I think those two games will actually make or break people's thoughts on McCarthy. Yeah, for sure.

And that's the trouble is when we try to be honest about what we saw against Dallas, it doesn't matter how many times I say this. People kind of hear what they want to hear. but you can just say all of the truths about it and have them all be true even if some of them feel like they're conflicting. Better decision-making matters. Better pocket presence matters. Playing in sync matters. Making some really exceptional big-time type of throws matters for J.J. McCarthy, that he did all that stuff. His confidence matters. And all of that happened. And it was all right there. And there was a lot of good stuff.

lot of good execution. And it is also true that Dallas has a total abomination of a defense. They are disgusting, and I hope I never have to watch them again. So, like, that's a truth. Like, that's what I'm saying about go watch, go watch any of the film breakdowns from the Dallas people, and you'll be like, okay, yeah, wow, those guys didn't even look like they knew the play. Why are they rushing two on fourth and two or whatever?

Like, there's crazy stuff that they did. So, yes, like, that's the fool's going. that I was talking about a couple weeks ago is you can get tricked and you need as big of a sample as you can get and you also need like, yeah, you're going to play bad defenses sometimes and you should perform like that against them, but also if those are the only good performances you have are against bad defenses, then that's where you could get a little bit thrown off. So those last two games, what would be really ideal is if both of those teams were coming in

hot, trying to win a U.S. Bank Stadium. as hard as they freaking can to stay in the race. Like a desperate Dan Campbell team, a desperate Packers team. We need to win for playoff position for the Packers. And then you get to see a little bit more of how does he play against a better coach team? How does he pay against a more talented team? One that has Aiden Hutchinson on it who destroyed the Vikings last time, right? I mean, and JJ was able to handle that last time, but like, let's see it again.

you'd love to have 30 games from J.J. McCarthy. Unfortunately, you will not have 30 games from J.J. McCarthy. It's just not going to work that way. So you get 11. And then when we sort them all out, you could say, all right, these did not work out well and why. These worked out okay and why. These worked out great and why. And if the only ones that worked out great were against the worst defenses in the league,

you're going to have more questions. I have been 100% in the boat for weeks of stay with J.J. McCarthy. Don't go get, unless it's Burrow. Burroughs the exception. Don't go get Kyler Murray. Don't go get Daniel Jones off in Achilles. Don't go trading for Mack Jones. Bring Carson Wentz back, have him be your backup and have him actually show up at training

camp and then go into next year and make or break, win or lose, whatever happens, happens. That's been my stance. So as we evaluate that, you know, that needs to be clear that, you know, I'm not saying if he doesn't play well against Green Bay, and I'm like, I'm out, it's over. I mean, it would have to be like eight interceptions over the final two weeks for me to say that. So there's always a world. But I'm sticking with the stance because I don't want it to just shift and change over the

final weeks of the season and go into the last week saying, well, if he plays good today, this is what they did with Darnold. And that was a mistake. If he plays good today, then I'm in. And if he plays bad today, then I'm out. That is insane. They did that with Kirk cousins in 2019. They go to New Orleans and it's like if Kirk plays well in New Orleans, they're in.

And if Kirk doesn't play well in New Orleans, they're out. And he played well. And they were in. And they kept Zimmer and they kept Kirk as opposed to drafting a quarterback or just whatever, just laying the plans. And then the next year's draft class has all hits, except for Tua, I guess. everybody else, you know, Jordan Love, Jalen Hertz, uh, Justin Herbert, like there's lots of, lots of good quarterbacks in that draft.

And they just, you know, decided not to go for it because he won one game. And if you're judging it on the last thing that you saw for anything in life, if you judge anything in life by just the last thing you saw, if you watched a show and the finale was not what you wanted it to be, but everything else in the season was fantastic. would you be like, this show stinks? I mean, then you hate the Sopranos, right? There's parts of the final season. This is like my worst take in the world

is that I don't really like the last season of Breaking Bad. It just goes over a ledge of being so horrifically violent that it's hard to take. But like, I didn't love the last season of Breaking Bad. It's an unbelievable show. It's one of the greatest shows of all time. We judge it on the five seasons, right? So you do this with everything.

But as people, what's sticking? in our brain the most, the last thing we saw. And that's, I've talked about this with Darnold so many times, but it drives me crazy. Like this Thursday night, my head just might explode because people are going to treat Thursday night, Rams and Seahawks, as if it's the whole referendum on Sam Darnold, who is what, 14 wins last year, what is 11 wins this year? So he's 25 and 6. None of that matters.

It's this Thursday night against the Rams. What? Like, it's how we do this thing. Well, then he can't win. then he can't win. Like, huh? I mean, we've done this with so many quarterbacks over the years. Stafford's first playoff games or Joe Flacko's first playoff games or Eli Manning's

or a number of other quarterbacks. They can't win the big one. They can't do this. They can't do that. So why, if we think that's wrong, then why would we do it for JJ on, oh, well, if he does well against the Packers, then we're in. If he doesn't, then we're out. Oh, that's how Matt Flynn got signed to be somebody starting quarterback.

Like the NFL is just a. as human as you are. So it's just, it's been kind of a warning of like, make your decision now because you might want to change your mind at the end. And that also go, I'll flip it around. That goes for if it's a horrible game. If McCarthy plays well the next two weeks, let's just say even decent and they lose to the lions by a touchdown. And it's a back and forth shootout. Lots of fun on Christmas Day. I think it will be. That's how I think it'll go. And then he just really struggles again against Jeff Paffley against that pass rush, and he goes nine for 20 with, you know, two picks and

three sacks or something. Well, I'm not going to say I'm done with J.J. McCarthy because of that game when he showed us a lot of good stuff. So that's kind of the fool's gold point is that you can get tricked. And the three examples I gave, Darnold early in his career, Mitch Trubisky, though, is a good one. And then Drew Locke is a great one. Drew Locke played awesome at the end of, I think it was maybe 2020.

And it's like, the guy's not even starting quarterback, but he played, he won four out of five. You know, he's a gunslinger. Everybody likes him. He's rapping on the sidelines. And like, that guy wasn't a starter. So, uh, you can get fooled. There's probably a hundred other examples of five game sections. Justin Fields, 2003, people are talking about not picking Caleb Williams because Justin

Fields played so well in the second half of that season. It's like, you got to be careful for those. but then again how how can we not judge in like those big moments so it's it's what makes football so dang fascinating to me is always trying to sort through and figure those things out Matt Verick says it's nice to see tight ends getting involved feels like that is also helped with the intermediate throwing right I mean those guys being on the field being able to use play action it really opens up that middle of the field when you can do it and running a couple of tight ends down the seam, that's, that's what New England did forever with Tom Brady and

Rob Grankowski. If you have a guy who could catch that ball, run him down the seam. Let's see. Jay says, T.J. is playing good now. Right. He was probably always good. He was probably always good. It's just circumstances, right? This is small samples and it's also circumstances. It's, well, Justin Jefferson's having a terrible year by his standard. I don't think Justin Jefferson's terrible and t j hawkinson through a section of the season could not buy a bucket but i don't think that's because he couldn't play i think that's because they were really struggling to get the football to the right places with a very young quarterback and what's the best thing that a lot of these veteran quarterbacks do they find their tight ends i mean go like look at look at how

different mahomes is when Travis kelsey isn't the same anymore a lot of these guys tom brady with Gronkowski. There were stats. I remember this bouncing around. There were stats of like Brady when he doesn't have Gronk and Brady when he's got Gronk. Like there's nothing better for a tight end than having a reliable or for a quarterback than having a reliable tight end. Once J.J. McCarthy has learned to kind of use it, then we're seeing Hocketson beat himself again.

Unfortunately, just the Vikes fan says personally, I think if the Vikes draft a running back of the first round, we're going to see a lot more big package schemes and tight end screens, quick pass concepts. I don't think it's a crazy thought. I really don't because when you look around the team, you've got a ton to work with. And when you look at the offense, okay, you know, Ryan Kelly, we're unsure about, but the rest of the offense, you got four starting offensive linemen, two tight ends, two wide receivers. We'll see what happens with Naylor, all coming back. Now, Mason is coming back as well. That's a lot of the offense. So you go, all right, well, what do they need? One more thing. Can you really run the

ball? Can you really throw the ball to the running back and get a huge explosive plays? I understand the theory of it. But for me, it's not don't draft a running back, but maybe don't draft him there. Like, don't draft him with this huge amount of draft capital at the top when there are probably good running backs in other places. Because the NFL does not draft running backs very often high, then that opens up opportunities so guys who are first round talents get taken in the second round all the time. It's just a better play. Also, when we talk about being analytical, that would be taking analytical and just going

and lighting it on fire. Now, the exception to that rule is probably Jemir Gibbs. And the reason for that is because they had 100 draft picks that year. You could draft your favorite player at the top because you've got two other firsts and three seconds or some craziness that Detroit had that year, the Vikings need to swing and get a hit at a prime position. I'm not sure if that that's running back. And I think if they couldn't get someone else,

then, you know, okay, if he's the only guy, but I think there's going to be guys. Mr. Mayor says, I realized we just played the Cowboys where Mike Zimmer is, well, no, he's not currently coaching anymore. No, he's not, he's not. That's Matt Eberflus. Mike Zimmer was coaching there last year.

Yep. If that was Mike Zimmer, I don't think we would have seen that lack of aggression. I did see a lot of people talking about that. Yeah, that would have been a big storyline going in. Matt Eberfluse, yep. But as far as Zim, he is, I think, unofficially retired. And they were better last year. But look, if Zim couldn't get any kind of defense out of them last year,

a much worse guy was probably not going to succeed. Jay says, JJ needs to play consistently. then we can feel more confident. I still have reservations on JJ. And that's an important thing to keep in mind for all adults approaching this quarterback situation is that if you say that you really want to wait and see, that's a good take. It's a good take. Like, we don't know.

I don't know. You don't know. The Vikings don't know. I mean, they might, they know more than we do, but they thought they, they thought they knew last year. They thought they knew he was ready and he wasn't, which tells you how hard this is. They had the best guy at evaluating and coaching quarterbacks and they didn't know for sure when they went to J.J. McCarthy and then they got burned by how far he needed to go to get to this point, right? And that's why we're talking about drafting running backs and stuff and not talking

about playoff races. But I don't know what's going to happen these next three games and how we're going to feel about McCarthy at the end. If but to your point about consistency, if you put together a final five-game stretch where we can look at it and say, here are the things that should be sticky to next year that he did really well consistently over those five games. Who cares if a ball gets batted up in the air and caught by Quinn and Williams for a pick? I'm not worried about that. That goes down as an I-N-T, but that's not a misread. That's not a panic play. That's just a thing that happens sometimes. I actually think he was making the right read and throwing the ball to the right place when he got that

tipped interceptions pure luck that's why pff looks at turnover worthy plays and gave him zero because that's bad luck what we're looking more toward and touchdown passes cj ham ran the ball into the end zone not j jay mccarthy McCarthy McCarthy gets penalized for that for for touchdown passes uh this has always been a troy ackman point for me like people will pull up Troy Aitman stats, you're like, guys, they ran it in with Emmett Smith every time because it was the 90s. If it was now, he'd throw the touchdowns. But anyway, so I don't care about that as much. Touchdown to interception ratio and so forth. It's the pocket presence stuff. It's been good. In sync has been much more. Throwing on the move, taking the right chances, seeming to be in

control, playing with a lot of confidence and energy, like all these things. And, And improving on the accuracy where there's still throws that you go, yeah, nope. And there's going to be throws. And this is something we have to understand, too, as we're grading this on a curve. There's going to be those rocket fire throws that just fly out of bounds and stuff. Every single one of them is not going to be penalized. Like, oh, there's one. He's a bust.

Like, we're not going to do that. It's going to be what's the accumulation of these final five games? And then what's the whole picture look like? because you cannot throw out what happened in the first six games. You can contextualize it, but you can't throw it out. You can't say, oh, it didn't happen. The last five games, it's only the, that's a baseball point from way back from those nerds, is you cannot just draw a line at the games you like.

Well, you know, since May, what happened in April, right? You can't do that, but what does it all look like at the end? And the five games do have to be weighed a little heavier than the first six because there were stops and starts, but you can't entirely throw those things out because some of the issues with throwing and accuracy, they could crop up again as they go into next year. So, yeah, it's the trickiest thing in the entire world. It really is the trickiest thing to do. Jay, do you feel confident in JJ? Yeah, that's again, a very complicated answer because, I mean, I just don't know. Like, when you talk about confidence,

There are some quarterbacks that I've seen that I thought right away, that guy's got it. He's good. He's set. And then I've been wrong. And there are other guys, and Josh Allen is one of them, that I was very skeptical about for some of the same reasons. Now, I'm not making that comp. You know, that's against the rules. But for some of the same reasons where I might say, I mean, you know, with Josh Allen, like, I just, the guy throws the ball a million miles an hour.

when's he ever he's never going to get touch at this point in his career and the mechanics are messy and the feet and the arm and everything else and then it came together it took three years but it came together and then he was a superstar now i don't think mccarthy has the physical gifts of josh allen but if he's got the work ethic he's very talented you see the arm's strength he is very talented so it's not like we're talking about someone who's you know a million miles away from that kind of talent. It's a top 10 draft pick in the NFL, just as Josh Allen was.

So could it be fixed? Yeah. Like, here's what I think of McCarthy. I think that there are several things that if they happen, that he could be a quarterback that you win a lot of games with and are very, very competitive with over the next three seasons. And then I have no idea what happens after that. That's like, you know, then you're talking about paying him

and then it's a completely different thing and tearing down the Ross under these circumstances. So 2026 and maybe 2027, depending on how it goes, there are things that if he does them and he's able to fix certain elements that all the rest is there, like the self-confidence as we've seen, is still there. The fact that the Pittsburgh or the Packers game did not destroy him, the fact that the Ravens and Bears games did not destroy the guy and he was able to work through that and come back. Like, that's, that's good. That's very good.

We've seen quarterbacks get destroyed by that. But you can't throw a football like this and be an elite quarterback. You just can't. They're working through the stuff. And this is where the adjustments, they're working with the stuff that he's doing right now. But on a consistent basis, the issue is if you think about this way. This is a great comparison. So those of you have followed the show long enough know that I like to play basketball.

One of the issues I have as a good shooter, but not Steph Curry, is that my shot is too flat. The great shooters, almost all of them have this beautiful arc. Like you ever watch, I can do this for every, every era. If you ever watch Larry Bird's shot, beautiful arc. Steph Curry's beautiful arc Anthony Edwards I think is greatly improved on the arc on his ball Like there's a certain physics to it Of as the ball comes down into the hoop

Stay with me here, there's a point As the ball comes down into the hoop The surface area that it has to work with is larger If you get it up and down, right? If you throw a line drive at the hoop As we've seen, you know, some NBA shooters have over the years there's just less surface area and it requires more precision, more perfection to get that ball in. And that's the trouble that I run into sometimes is when I don't, when I flatten out

the shot and then you're hitting the back of the rim a lot and you get that doing. That's what happens with J.J. McCarthy where when you throw with no arc, you better pin the tail on the donkey. Like you better have it like money every time because if it's up and out here, it's going to be very hard to adjust to. We've seen the struggles that Jefferson has had with this. If it's not on time and it's floating out there to you, not Philip Rivers floating, but floating nicely through the air, and you go up to make the catch and it's not exactly where you thought it was going to be,

you can move your hands. You can adapt your body to make that catch. If it's flying at you like a dart, that's very hard to adjust to. Then if it's a little up here, it's a little out there, it's going to go by so that part of it that to me is what will cause inconsistency is it's a lot easier to shoot consistently when you have arc and it drops in because even if you're a little off it's still going to go in it's very hard to shoot consistently with a line drive shot and i think the same way for this to be a he could still win and still have a good season next year

but can you be a quarterback that's in the top 10 that's driving the success consistently of your team with that type of inconsistency with how you're throwing the football, probably not. And that's why there's so much focus on the fundamentals. So that box has to get checked in order for me to be confident in him. But he's not going to fix it in these next three games. So I'm not thinking about it in the next three games. That's training camp next year.

That's, you know, the first month of the season, then we're going to see, did all the offseason work come about? And that's why it's so hard for me to use three games to say, oh, I'm in or out. On J.J. McCarthy. To me, that's foolish. I mean, it's foolish. We just haven't known with almost any quarterback, unless it was truly horrific through the first, you know, whatever number of games that you're in or out. You have to see that person's opportunity to improve through an off season. That's what you have to see. So there, and then, of course, you know, the Jefferson thing, you just can't live in a world next year where Jefferson and Addison are hoping for two catches a game. You just can't do that. that that will not work because then you're talking about those guys maybe not wanting to be here and then you're in big trouble so there are boxes that need to be checked and it's you know the week to week type of thing that has to happen for him there's probably a sample size for me that's enough games to be able to say all right i got i got a pretty good sense of this um that number is not 11 but

it's also not 100 so you know when you ask about the confidence is it like is it sort is it do I would say it's possible it's possible we are not at a spot where I would say no way folks this guy can't play but we're also not at a spot where I would say you're all set um so it's possible but I am not moving that needle over to the all set probably unless unless we see you know three of the best games we've ever seen our life than maybe uh let's see Greg says McCarthy the lowest at Green Bay. He could not get worse. Now he's making good strides forward.